Kinda based.
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Metagame 1v1 Old Gens
- Thread starter DEG
- Start date
large
Potential gen5 1v1 sample:
https://pokepast.es/6ab2ba8c7de07de3
Given quite a few people this team and they all agree that this is pure flames. My favourite bw team I have built probably. Given how dire current gen5 samples are might be worth adding.
https://pokepast.es/6ab2ba8c7de07de3
Given quite a few people this team and they all agree that this is pure flames. My favourite bw team I have built probably. Given how dire current gen5 samples are might be worth adding.
After the BW OU Suspect Test on Gems resulted in the ban of all Gems in the aforementioned tier, we have decided to keep Gems in BW 1v1. Therefore, this decision by BW OU will not have any impact on the current metagame for BW 1v1.
In addition, after the ban of sleep moves in BW 1v1, we have made a few changes to the BW 1v1 Sets Compendium. This new compendium reflects the changes and the removal of some sets that were considered outdated.
Here is the link to the updated Sets Compendium: https://pokepast.es/5f47a08cbd40bfd7
We are also working on a total revamp of the BW 1v1 Sets Compendium. If you would like to help, please dm me on Discord at moonlight#1605. Thanks!
Yep! In the post I detail that we will be waiting until after the Ladder Tournament! As instead of trying to guess the meta, we can see how it develops without Zapdos, and then right before ADV Cup craft some samples, a new VR, new sets comp, etc as a resource for new players!
Been on ladder a bunch today and used this
I don't like adv so just kinda abused broken mechanics and pokemon. Idea is to hit hard and win cm stall wars pretty nicely since people love those fsr. I've tried max spa max speed with hp ice and it has worked alright. Hp fire is also cool for Scizor but I prefer the set above.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1616848478-8279d1kl8ue1n7cxgbfo28b2z01zwgypw
Raikou @ Scope Lens
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 192 Def / 48 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 192 Def / 48 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1616848478-8279d1kl8ue1n7cxgbfo28b2z01zwgypw
I remember playing against your Raikou using Amnesia registeel....and no critical hit in 24 thunderbolts
. I was thinking about scop lens because no chesto and leftovers was showed....but I doubt because of that. In other battle you crit turn 1 the regi.EDIT: This milotic set in the set compendium is "suboptimal":
Light Screen (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpA / 144 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Recover
- Surf
- Icy Wind
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpA / 144 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Recover
- Surf
- Icy Wind
Light Screen (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 132 SpA / 28 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Recover
- Surf
- Icy Wind
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 132 SpA / 28 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Recover
- Surf
- Icy Wind
Using calm > modest is the key in this case.
Hypno careful > impish. (similar to milotic, change the nature for better results and giving less evs in sdef and more in physical defense)
Shedinja shadow ball > return
Blissey (2 sets) serene grace > natural cure (unless you think freeze is bad for pp stalling purposes)
Last edited:
ban dynamic punch in adv 1v1.
shit is balls and allows metagross and band ttar to an extent to just cheese matchups(i didnt save ttar replays but trust)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1619406899
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1619364510
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1619930952
yes this is targeted at lecehlou because they ran dpunch meta as their gyara answer last cycle
confusion is broken
shit is balls and allows metagross and band ttar to an extent to just cheese matchups(i didnt save ttar replays but trust)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1619406899
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1619364510
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1619930952
yes this is targeted at lecehlou because they ran dpunch meta as their gyara answer last cycle
confusion is broken
Having nearly ran the gauntlet I wanted to drop brief thoughts on every old gen before classic. I will avoid talking about bw but from people I've spoken to abt it seem to agree the meta could be better, idk hopefully this post sparks some discussion.
SM: I enjoyed my SM run this wcup even if I'm not that good at it admittedly kek. Meta is in a cool spot it's basically just oras w a way more balanced zard+some z move cheese which is sick. Z moves are never gonna be a good 1v1 mech to me but w/e it's the gimmick of the gen. I do have smth to say on the brokens ofc.
- I think in practice this thing is not that bad but there is an annoying amount of setguessing required for teams that have one. Doesn't seem to be that awful from a builder perspective but I saw a lot of teams dependent on it not being scarf.
- I still believe this thing is horrible for the tier. We didn't see a lot of Mew spam cuz I think its ztransform/zscreens sets are a lot more prepped for but I did not see enough people messing w offensive. Landon being able to put 4 coverage moves on a scarf mew and claim a 3-0 like cmonbrah shit like that leads me to believe mew is not at all healthy from a building or playing perspective. Also, all its z sets are still really good just because people actually prep for them doesn't mean they are unviable or anything lol. If it were up to me this mon would be banned as fuck.
ORAS: I still like oras and think it has a lot of fun mons. Not sure how much it has for development rn honestly, meta revolves around zard but it's not a terrible thing that it does. Centralization can be good and I think this is a case where it is far far far superior to the other option where we have no charizard x formation.
- If you ban this I think the meta is just way worse. 1) It's not even that bad rn, it has very legit and viable counterplay. While not all of the counterplay is foolproof I honestly think if your team is 3-0d by any zard it is simply a bad team. 2) I don't believe in the cascade theory of this thing getting banned. ORAS tours are not run often enough to gauge how a post-meta zard meta would be fare but it is safe to say shit like vic steels msab that are not going to be fun to deal w will run rampant. my example would be msab being able to safely stop running the dogshit burst set that never wins so it can run it's super obnoxious stall wisp sets that can beat some mmaw poggers. Knowing how slow shit runs on this site this tier would be in a decent place by 2030 if we were to ban x.
- Utopia is this thing is simply not in the tier so x has a lot more consistent counterplay while still being able to keep the tier stable but it's probably too late atp to make such a drastic change. Idk, I'm of the opinion that boomers being forced to adapt is fine and I would ban it but muah smogon policy.
- This shit is really dumb. The electrics are fucking ass outside of zone which is only okay, grasses also suck outside of mvenu serp who are not that good let's be real. Ppl trying to push the tier have prob realized shit like mamphy thundyt zap ferro whimsi have a lot of issues that hold them back from abusing mana builds. Between standard custap, stall, and fast tg tailored for zard mana is a pain in the ass to consistently beat in the builder. It's not w/o counterplay like mgard is p reliable and there are a lot of special attackers that just do way too much before mana can do anything back like melo but I still think it's p unhealthy. It has mythical capabilities w a typing that is not naturally checked in the tier so I can't wait to see shit like wp pop up. I don't know if I would vote ban rn but looking at my builder a lot of shit is really dependent on it just not being the right set, it's diffucult to justify its checks on a lot of teams.
DPP: I cba to talk too much about this tier when it's being nuked next gen anw. I'm not sure this tier was really given a fair shake w balance, I stand by this version of the tier being unplayable for tts. To get my mech whining out of the way, I do think they are objectively horrible. Mail not showing, dumb trick mechs, the crits in a pretty fat tier, all status p unfair, etc. The bigger issue is just the dumb fucking top tiers that either force way too much rng or have an obnoxious amount of sets.
- Clef rachi are mons with already pretty limited counterplay between all their sets and para makes it signifcantly more annoying to check these mons consistently. Power creep has not set in enough to curb these mons at all, they are absurd and I would ban in a heartbeat.
- I think these pressure legends had the potential to be really dumb but no one really cared enough to push the tier beyond the cress ttar shit it has been since the start of time.
- This mon is fineeeeee. No mail on preview and trick mechs are fuckin annoying for it and everything evs for it. It's obnxoious in the builder cuz ghosts/darks/bugs are fucking awful outside of ttar but w/e, it would've prob been fine if anyone actually played this tier.
SM: I enjoyed my SM run this wcup even if I'm not that good at it admittedly kek. Meta is in a cool spot it's basically just oras w a way more balanced zard+some z move cheese which is sick. Z moves are never gonna be a good 1v1 mech to me but w/e it's the gimmick of the gen. I do have smth to say on the brokens ofc.
- I think in practice this thing is not that bad but there is an annoying amount of setguessing required for teams that have one. Doesn't seem to be that awful from a builder perspective but I saw a lot of teams dependent on it not being scarf. - I still believe this thing is horrible for the tier. We didn't see a lot of Mew spam cuz I think its ztransform/zscreens sets are a lot more prepped for but I did not see enough people messing w offensive. Landon being able to put 4 coverage moves on a scarf mew and claim a 3-0 like cmonbrah shit like that leads me to believe mew is not at all healthy from a building or playing perspective. Also, all its z sets are still really good just because people actually prep for them doesn't mean they are unviable or anything lol. If it were up to me this mon would be banned as fuck.ORAS: I still like oras and think it has a lot of fun mons. Not sure how much it has for development rn honestly, meta revolves around zard but it's not a terrible thing that it does. Centralization can be good and I think this is a case where it is far far far superior to the other option where we have no charizard x formation.
- If you ban this I think the meta is just way worse. 1) It's not even that bad rn, it has very legit and viable counterplay. While not all of the counterplay is foolproof I honestly think if your team is 3-0d by any zard it is simply a bad team. 2) I don't believe in the cascade theory of this thing getting banned. ORAS tours are not run often enough to gauge how a post-meta zard meta would be fare but it is safe to say shit like vic steels msab that are not going to be fun to deal w will run rampant. my example would be msab being able to safely stop running the dogshit burst set that never wins so it can run it's super obnoxious stall wisp sets that can beat some mmaw poggers. Knowing how slow shit runs on this site this tier would be in a decent place by 2030 if we were to ban x. - Utopia is this thing is simply not in the tier so x has a lot more consistent counterplay while still being able to keep the tier stable but it's probably too late atp to make such a drastic change. Idk, I'm of the opinion that boomers being forced to adapt is fine and I would ban it but muah smogon policy. - This shit is really dumb. The electrics are fucking ass outside of zone which is only okay, grasses also suck outside of mvenu serp who are not that good let's be real. Ppl trying to push the tier have prob realized shit like mamphy thundyt zap ferro whimsi have a lot of issues that hold them back from abusing mana builds. Between standard custap, stall, and fast tg tailored for zard mana is a pain in the ass to consistently beat in the builder. It's not w/o counterplay like mgard is p reliable and there are a lot of special attackers that just do way too much before mana can do anything back like melo but I still think it's p unhealthy. It has mythical capabilities w a typing that is not naturally checked in the tier so I can't wait to see shit like wp pop up. I don't know if I would vote ban rn but looking at my builder a lot of shit is really dependent on it just not being the right set, it's diffucult to justify its checks on a lot of teams.DPP: I cba to talk too much about this tier when it's being nuked next gen anw. I'm not sure this tier was really given a fair shake w balance, I stand by this version of the tier being unplayable for tts. To get my mech whining out of the way, I do think they are objectively horrible. Mail not showing, dumb trick mechs, the crits in a pretty fat tier, all status p unfair, etc. The bigger issue is just the dumb fucking top tiers that either force way too much rng or have an obnoxious amount of sets.
- Clef rachi are mons with already pretty limited counterplay between all their sets and para makes it signifcantly more annoying to check these mons consistently. Power creep has not set in enough to curb these mons at all, they are absurd and I would ban in a heartbeat. - I think these pressure legends had the potential to be really dumb but no one really cared enough to push the tier beyond the cress ttar shit it has been since the start of time. - This mon is fineeeeee. No mail on preview and trick mechs are fuckin annoying for it and everything evs for it. It's obnxoious in the builder cuz ghosts/darks/bugs are fucking awful outside of ttar but w/e, it would've prob been fine if anyone actually played this tier.
Mew is a fascinating Pokemon in SM 1v1 that saw a rise in tournament usage between 2021 and 2022, mostly due to the increased popularity of a few specific movesets. Like many Pokemon in the tier, Mew is fairly ambiguous on team preview. It can be one of several options, all with slightly different metagame coverage. Let's take a look at the best and most meta-defining Mew sets of 2022.
Mew @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave
- Transform
- Seismic Toss
Z-Transform Mew does well against <100 Speed attackers vulnerable to Will-O-Wisp. It can also overcome faster Pokemon by using Thunder Wave followed by Z-Transform, healing back to full and becoming a 400 odd HP version of them. Specifically, this tactic is useful against Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, Landorus-Therian, Mega Mawile, Mega Tyranitar, and physical Sturdy Pokemon.
Normalium Z Mew struggles against Sub Charizard, Magearna, opposing Mew and other Taunt users, Mega Blaziken, Mega Aggron, Slaking, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Mega Altaria, Magnezone, Magneton, Heatran, Kartana, Genesect, Tapu Fini, Primarina, Victini, Zygarde, Type: Null, Mega Audino, Chansey, Porygon2, Smeargle, Krookodile, Mega Gengar, and anything faster than base 100 carrying Substitute. I'd rate this set A+.
Mew @ Kee Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss / Amnesia
Kew is Mew's traditional best set, all the way back from ORAS. The combination of Will-O-Wisp, Roost, and Taunt is enough to devastate slow physical non-fires like Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, opposing Mew, Mega Metagross, Zygarde, Landorus-Therian, Mawile-Mega, and physical Sturdy Pokemon. Amnesia is an option over Seismic Toss, notably used by Squirtell 1v1 and Kentari. While this set theoretically covers a good number of special attackers, relying solely on Will-O-Wisp for damage gives opponents 16 turns to crit and makes Mew even more susceptible to Substitute and recovery.
Seismic Toss Kew loses to Charizard, Magearna, Mega Altaria, Naganadel, Kommo-o, Magnezone, Magneton, Heatran, Mega Blaziken, Tapu Lele, Sub SD Kartana, Genesect, Tapu Fini, Primarina, Victini, and Mega Gengar. Amnesia Kew gains odds versus Charizard Y, Naganadel, Magearna, Mega Altaria, Kommo-o, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, and Primarina, but loses reliability against Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, Mega Metagross, and Ground-types. It also loses entirely to Fire-types, given that Will-O-Wisp is its only form of damage. I'd rate this set A+.
Mew @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 12 SpD / 56 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt / Light Screen
Z-Reflect (or Z-Screens) Mew rose to popularity thanks to Bopher, Potatochan, and Boat. This set allows Mew to overcome the physical Fire-types unafraid of Will-O-Wisp. Incineroar in particular is lured by this set, expecting to Darkest Lariat through Mew's defenses.
Z-Screens Mew loses to Celesteela, Pheromosa, Mega Pinsir, Zapdos, Chansey, Blissey, Mega Gengar, Genesect, Porygon2, Mega Tyranitar, Kartana, Magnezone, Magneton, Ambipom, Landorus-T, Kommo-o, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Tapu Bulu, Archeops, Crustle, and Garchomp. I'd rate this set A.
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 120 HP / 24 Def / 168 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Nasty Plot
- Skill Swap
Present-day Genesis Supernova Mew (used in WCVI) abandons Calm Mind for Nasty Plot and plays around speed control and ability control - extremely important factors in SM 1v1. Icy Wind is also essential versus Garchomp, Zygarde, and Landorus-T.
Icy Genesis Mew loses to Charizard, Victini, Mega Gyarados, Magearna, opposing Mew, Jirachi, Mega Metagross, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, Heatran, Registeel, Chansey, Blissey, Krookodile, Tyranitar, and Mega Tyranitar. I'd rate this set high A or low A+.
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 96 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpA / 156 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Overheat
- Nasty Plot
- Skill Swap / Fake Out
Straight outta 2019, Overheat Mew is an old favorite of many SM ladder players. Fire coverage lets Mew accentuate its Psychic spam with an answer to Steel- and Bug-types. Fake Out improves rolls against Charizard-X and Mega Mawile, or Skill Swap beats all the same Sturdies Fake Out would, plus Zeraora and Torrent Primarina. Though this set has fallen out of favor compared to the stally Mews of today's meta, its theoretical existence prevents several checks like Celesteela and Genesect from being true counters to Mew.
Overheat Genesis Mew loses to Dragonite, Charizard Y, Victini, Mega Gyarados, Garchomp, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Magearna (unless you run CM over Plot), Tapu Fini, Chansey, Blissey, Krookodile, Tyranitar, and Mega Tyranitar. I'd rate this set low A.
Mew is countered by Aegislash, Porygon-Z, Meloetta, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, Serperior, Hoopa-Unbound, Greninja, Volcarona, Blacephalon, Necrozma, Deoxys-Speed, Durant, and Togekiss.
Mew is also countered by a few unconventional move choices: Taunt Whimsicott, Bulldoze Mega Gyarados, Toxic Mega Metagross, Calm Mind + Laser Focus + Shadow Ball PsyZ Alakazam, Mega Alakazam, or other Psychic-types.
Mew is also countered by a few unconventional move choices: Taunt Whimsicott, Bulldoze Mega Gyarados, Toxic Mega Metagross, Calm Mind + Laser Focus + Shadow Ball PsyZ Alakazam, Mega Alakazam, or other Psychic-types.
Mew is checked by Substitute users at or above base 100 speed: Charizard, Victini, Mega Metagross, Jirachi, Zapdos, Mega Pinsir, Ambipom, Latios, Raikou, Infernape, etc.
The Steel-types Celesteela, Kartana, Magnezone, Magneton, and Genesect all beat Mew unless it's carrying Fire coverage (Mewnium Z Overheat with appropriate speed and bulk). Togekiss, Manaphy, Carracosta, Mega Pinsir, Mega Gengar, and Zapdos beat Mew except for bulky Genesis Supernova.
Incineroar and Victini beat Mew except for bulky Z-Reflect. Zeraora and Clefable beat Mew lacking Skill Swap. Stall Pokemon like Chansey, Blissey, Registeel, and standard Whimsicott beat any Mew not running Taunt.
The Steel-types Celesteela, Kartana, Magnezone, Magneton, and Genesect all beat Mew unless it's carrying Fire coverage (Mewnium Z Overheat with appropriate speed and bulk). Togekiss, Manaphy, Carracosta, Mega Pinsir, Mega Gengar, and Zapdos beat Mew except for bulky Genesis Supernova.
Incineroar and Victini beat Mew except for bulky Z-Reflect. Zeraora and Clefable beat Mew lacking Skill Swap. Stall Pokemon like Chansey, Blissey, Registeel, and standard Whimsicott beat any Mew not running Taunt.
These Mew sets look pretty cool but drop an alarming number of important matchups.
Mew @ Groundium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Used during PLV and chosen for a decent Zeraora and Charizard matchup, Z-EQ Mew loses to Primarina, Tapu Fini, Genesect, Porygon2, Mega Tyranitar, Mega Mawile, Magnezone, Magneton, Mega Audino, Type: Null, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Tapu Lele, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Garchomp, Incineroar, Mega Lopunny, Kommo-o, Mega Altaria, Ferrothorn, Archeops, Slaking, and physical Sturdies (Crustle, Donphan, Aggron/Mega Aggron). If your goal is to cover Zeraora and Charizard X with Mew, Modest Skill Swap Genesis Supernova is a better choice. I'd rate this set B-.
Mew @ Electrium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt
- Seismic Toss
Credit to Bopher for this set. Beats a handful of special attackers but loses to Dragonite, Garchomp, Mega Metagross, Mega Mawile, Mega Lopunny, Mega Venusaur, Kommo-o, Slaking, Archeops, Tapu Bulu, Ferrothorn, Mega Blaziken, Donphan, CB Aggron, Crustle, Smeargle, and many other physical attackers. This set struggles to reliably beat Greninja since it has so many chances to Dark Pulse flinch or crit through Z-Twave's +1 SpDef, in addition to counterplay with Sub+Haze. I'd rate this set low B-.
Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 96 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Gunk Shot
- Flare Blitz / Rock Tomb
- Ice Punch / Earthquake
Credit again to Bopher for this set. A frequent pop-up in the "coverage" argument, Life Orb Mew covers a few checks while losing a ton of other matchups. Life Orb Mew can tech Tapu Bulu and Tapu Fini (but not Primarina or Tapu Lele) with Gunk Shot, it can surprise Genesect and Ferrothorn with Flare Blitz or Overheat, pop Sturdies with Fake Out plus appropriate coverage, and nail the 4x Ice weaks Zygarde, Garchomp, and Landorus-T with Ice Punch or Ice Beam. Using Rock Tomb and Earthquake, Life Orb Mew can beat Charizard if it wins the speed tie, but that means giving up two of Poison, Fire, or Ice coverage.
Life Orb Mew does however drop many important matchups: Mega Mawile, Magearna, Mega Metagross, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Tapu Lele, Mega Altaria, Naganadel, Jirachi, and stall Pokemon like Mega Venusaur, Registeel, Type: Null, and Mega Audino. It's an amusing if sometimes unreliable lure set, often relying on speed ties or low accuracy coverage. I would rate this set B.
Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Outrage
- Rock Slide
- Leech Life
Scarf Mew is interesting because of its unique matchup spread. Superpower one-shots Greninja, Outrage and Rock Slide deal with Charizard forms, while Leech Life can be used against Serperior and opposing Psychic types. This Mew drops the most matchups a Mew would expect to win: Dragonite, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Mega Metagross, Zeraora, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Mega Mawile, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Mega Altaria, Mega Venusaur, physical Sturdies, Fighting- and Poison-types. Special Mew is sometimes chosen instead for its Psychic / Ice Beam / Overheat combo, but it has a similar number of forfeited matchups.
Choice Scarf Mew does lure a handful of counters, making it a somewhat viable matchup fish against the right opponent. I'd rate this set B- (though my WC teammates would likely rate it lower).
There are other sets to be theorized, but each new wacky set will lose more matchups than it gains. If you're trying to build serious teams with or against Mew, you should be considering Z-Transform, Kee Berry, Psychium Z Reflect, and Genesis Supernova. These sets will do a better job in battle 99% of the time compared to Mew's unsets.
Mew @ Groundium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Used during PLV and chosen for a decent Zeraora and Charizard matchup, Z-EQ Mew loses to Primarina, Tapu Fini, Genesect, Porygon2, Mega Tyranitar, Mega Mawile, Magnezone, Magneton, Mega Audino, Type: Null, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Tapu Lele, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Garchomp, Incineroar, Mega Lopunny, Kommo-o, Mega Altaria, Ferrothorn, Archeops, Slaking, and physical Sturdies (Crustle, Donphan, Aggron/Mega Aggron). If your goal is to cover Zeraora and Charizard X with Mew, Modest Skill Swap Genesis Supernova is a better choice. I'd rate this set B-.
Mew @ Electrium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt
- Seismic Toss
Credit to Bopher for this set. Beats a handful of special attackers but loses to Dragonite, Garchomp, Mega Metagross, Mega Mawile, Mega Lopunny, Mega Venusaur, Kommo-o, Slaking, Archeops, Tapu Bulu, Ferrothorn, Mega Blaziken, Donphan, CB Aggron, Crustle, Smeargle, and many other physical attackers. This set struggles to reliably beat Greninja since it has so many chances to Dark Pulse flinch or crit through Z-Twave's +1 SpDef, in addition to counterplay with Sub+Haze. I'd rate this set low B-.
Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 96 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Gunk Shot
- Flare Blitz / Rock Tomb
- Ice Punch / Earthquake
Credit again to Bopher for this set. A frequent pop-up in the "coverage" argument, Life Orb Mew covers a few checks while losing a ton of other matchups. Life Orb Mew can tech Tapu Bulu and Tapu Fini (but not Primarina or Tapu Lele) with Gunk Shot, it can surprise Genesect and Ferrothorn with Flare Blitz or Overheat, pop Sturdies with Fake Out plus appropriate coverage, and nail the 4x Ice weaks Zygarde, Garchomp, and Landorus-T with Ice Punch or Ice Beam. Using Rock Tomb and Earthquake, Life Orb Mew can beat Charizard if it wins the speed tie, but that means giving up two of Poison, Fire, or Ice coverage.
Life Orb Mew does however drop many important matchups: Mega Mawile, Magearna, Mega Metagross, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Tapu Lele, Mega Altaria, Naganadel, Jirachi, and stall Pokemon like Mega Venusaur, Registeel, Type: Null, and Mega Audino. It's an amusing if sometimes unreliable lure set, often relying on speed ties or low accuracy coverage. I would rate this set B.
Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Outrage
- Rock Slide
- Leech Life
Scarf Mew is interesting because of its unique matchup spread. Superpower one-shots Greninja, Outrage and Rock Slide deal with Charizard forms, while Leech Life can be used against Serperior and opposing Psychic types. This Mew drops the most matchups a Mew would expect to win: Dragonite, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Mega Metagross, Zeraora, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Mega Mawile, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Mega Altaria, Mega Venusaur, physical Sturdies, Fighting- and Poison-types. Special Mew is sometimes chosen instead for its Psychic / Ice Beam / Overheat combo, but it has a similar number of forfeited matchups.
Choice Scarf Mew does lure a handful of counters, making it a somewhat viable matchup fish against the right opponent. I'd rate this set B- (though my WC teammates would likely rate it lower).
torterrax vs gorilaa
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1509664037
Icy Wind Genesis Mew beats Garchomp
Lancer vs Squirtell
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514617977
Mew loses to Buginium Z Pheromosa
Rumia vs torterrax
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514837189
Light Screen Mew beats non-eball Manaphy
XSC vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1513981005
Z-Earthquake Mew beats Rhyperior
XSC vs Squirtell
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529398358
Z-Earthquake Sucker Mew beats Rhyperior
(Any Mew would beat Rhyperior but these were funny to watch)
Bopher vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1512674704
Groundium Z Mew beats non-AB Heatran
STABLE vs Rosa
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514518766
Z-Reflect Mew without Taunt loses to Rest Zygarde
TSC vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514498787-vj73udp8pzq5qs7c72oi1piigtb2e7gpw
Toxic Mew without Taunt loses to Rest Zygarde
XSC vs Boat
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1524945900-m72d2ps4ehij1x4akuq0nik2iwhhbtdpw
Z-Gunk Shot Mew beats Serperior
Funniest match I've seen in years. Serp carries Sub for a reason.
AOPSuser vs TSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1524884013
Genesis Supernova Mew without Icy Wind loses to Z-Fly Landorus
Denis vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529990242
Amnesia Kew beats Mega Diancie
Rumia vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534955386
Genesis Mew beats SD Tapu Bulu
Squirtell vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534111016-lwv269epybj2obct8sqghzzvca7sg2mpw
Choice Scarf Ice Beam Mew loses to Sucker Golem
Boat vs ToastedBunzzz
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534516157-8qvnqszj8tpngbftd3nxrwjv2d1gg7ypw
Plot Genesis Mew loses to Blue Flare Victini
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534518422-ygcymug9vz0stkpmriviyj84qtpohu5pw
Z-Reflect Mew beats Incineroar
XSC vs Denis
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534308248
Rockium Z Sucker Mew beats Scarf Dark Pulse Porygon-Z
Potatochan vs Jamez
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1535590027
Z-Earthquake Mew beats Z-Cel Victini
Boat vs TSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1549649304-metsfq29e7zgyuiga2i6hprmmdl0hvjpw
Z-Earthquake Mew loses to Serperior
XSC vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1549920931
CM Mew loses to Laser Focus Meloetta
Bopher vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1559566647-zhqes8jgv3b0m69qmcyxghhnboj8ep0pw
Z-Reflect Toss Mew beats Mega Mawile
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1509664037
Icy Wind Genesis Mew beats Garchomp
Lancer vs Squirtell
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514617977
Mew loses to Buginium Z Pheromosa
Rumia vs torterrax
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514837189
Light Screen Mew beats non-eball Manaphy
XSC vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1513981005
Z-Earthquake Mew beats Rhyperior
XSC vs Squirtell
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529398358
Z-Earthquake Sucker Mew beats Rhyperior
(Any Mew would beat Rhyperior but these were funny to watch)
Bopher vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1512674704
Groundium Z Mew beats non-AB Heatran
STABLE vs Rosa
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514518766
Z-Reflect Mew without Taunt loses to Rest Zygarde
TSC vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514498787-vj73udp8pzq5qs7c72oi1piigtb2e7gpw
Toxic Mew without Taunt loses to Rest Zygarde
XSC vs Boat
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1524945900-m72d2ps4ehij1x4akuq0nik2iwhhbtdpw
Z-Gunk Shot Mew beats Serperior
Funniest match I've seen in years. Serp carries Sub for a reason.
AOPSuser vs TSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1524884013
Genesis Supernova Mew without Icy Wind loses to Z-Fly Landorus
Denis vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529990242
Amnesia Kew beats Mega Diancie
Rumia vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534955386
Genesis Mew beats SD Tapu Bulu
Squirtell vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534111016-lwv269epybj2obct8sqghzzvca7sg2mpw
Choice Scarf Ice Beam Mew loses to Sucker Golem
Boat vs ToastedBunzzz
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534516157-8qvnqszj8tpngbftd3nxrwjv2d1gg7ypw
Plot Genesis Mew loses to Blue Flare Victini
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534518422-ygcymug9vz0stkpmriviyj84qtpohu5pw
Z-Reflect Mew beats Incineroar
XSC vs Denis
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534308248
Rockium Z Sucker Mew beats Scarf Dark Pulse Porygon-Z
Potatochan vs Jamez
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1535590027
Z-Earthquake Mew beats Z-Cel Victini
Boat vs TSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1549649304-metsfq29e7zgyuiga2i6hprmmdl0hvjpw
Z-Earthquake Mew loses to Serperior
XSC vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1549920931
CM Mew loses to Laser Focus Meloetta
Bopher vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1559566647-zhqes8jgv3b0m69qmcyxghhnboj8ep0pw
Z-Reflect Toss Mew beats Mega Mawile
Won 8 matches it was supposed to win based on chosen Pokemon.
Lost 6 matches it was supposed to lose based on chosen Pokemon.
Flipped 4 matches it should have lost into a win with a niche set (Poisonium Z, Groundium Z, and Z-Reflect Toss).
Flipped 2 matches it should have won into losses due to using the wrong niche set (against Landorus-T and Golem).
This was a good tour for Mew, and a big reason for the "broken mew" opinions of the last few months. XSTATIC COLD's unique offensive Z-Move choices plus the rise of Z-Earthquake and Z-Reflect Mew all contributed to an idea of an overpowering metagame threat. The stats point to Mew being viable, but even at its peak of usage and alternate set abuse, Mew was always a few steps behind the big dragons of the metagame. A respectable choice with a good winrate, but not really broken.
Baleblaze vs Kentari
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604657877-g4h6wmdksh9fx0un2nke5apl27uw5uzpw
Z-Reflect Mew loses to Laser Focus Gigalith
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604659701-48dydb8outgyovqrmnl1b6n1taou6rupw
Z-Reflect Mew beats Choice Band Aggron
Bopher vs Kentari
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604334903
Taunt Toss Z-Transform Mew beats non-Taunt Z-Transform Mew
(Z-Transform instead of Thunder Wave might have flipped this, but Kentari forgot the full heal goes off regardless of the move failing against a Transformed opponent.)
Elo Bandit vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604163038
Genesis Supernova Mew beats Waterium Tapu Fini
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1617254774
Genesis Supernova Mew loses to Tapunium Z Tapu Fini
TSC vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1600453531
Scarf Zen Headbutt Mew loses to Bulk Up Buzzwole
bea vs XSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1603580832
Earthquake Mew beats Zeraora
XSC vs mishimono
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1609577257-cuqwg0rzcnx8wrn6n3xxyv3qq4kst9mpw
Kee Mew beats Mega Mawile
crying vs crucify
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1602231892-chx8nfuzf0jqpm6kwasc8ieu37wnqnepw
Amnesia Kew loses to Laser Focus Meloetta
Squirtell vs LRXC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1622984411
Nasty Plot Genesis Supernova Mew beats Encore Togekiss
Elo Bandit vs Dez
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen71v1-637094
Reflect Z-Transform Mew beats Facade Mega Altaria
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen71v1-637103
Modest Genesis Mew beats Charizard X
Landon vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1620354247
Scarf Mew beats Band Archeops
Tol used the same Choice Scarf weak team over and over against multiple opponents. Any special Scarf (not just Mew) rolls over that composition, and a more standard Mew would be better against any other team. This match is not evidence that Scarf Mew is overpowered, merely that it can check one specific team archetype (fast and frail) if it knows the exact Pokemon it needs to hit.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604657877-g4h6wmdksh9fx0un2nke5apl27uw5uzpw
Z-Reflect Mew loses to Laser Focus Gigalith
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604659701-48dydb8outgyovqrmnl1b6n1taou6rupw
Z-Reflect Mew beats Choice Band Aggron
Bopher vs Kentari
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604334903
Taunt Toss Z-Transform Mew beats non-Taunt Z-Transform Mew
(Z-Transform instead of Thunder Wave might have flipped this, but Kentari forgot the full heal goes off regardless of the move failing against a Transformed opponent.)
Elo Bandit vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604163038
Genesis Supernova Mew beats Waterium Tapu Fini
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1617254774
Genesis Supernova Mew loses to Tapunium Z Tapu Fini
TSC vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1600453531
Scarf Zen Headbutt Mew loses to Bulk Up Buzzwole
bea vs XSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1603580832
Earthquake Mew beats Zeraora
XSC vs mishimono
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1609577257-cuqwg0rzcnx8wrn6n3xxyv3qq4kst9mpw
Kee Mew beats Mega Mawile
crying vs crucify
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1602231892-chx8nfuzf0jqpm6kwasc8ieu37wnqnepw
Amnesia Kew loses to Laser Focus Meloetta
Squirtell vs LRXC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1622984411
Nasty Plot Genesis Supernova Mew beats Encore Togekiss
Elo Bandit vs Dez
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen71v1-637094
Reflect Z-Transform Mew beats Facade Mega Altaria
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen71v1-637103
Modest Genesis Mew beats Charizard X
Landon vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1620354247
Scarf Mew beats Band Archeops
Tol used the same Choice Scarf weak team over and over against multiple opponents. Any special Scarf (not just Mew) rolls over that composition, and a more standard Mew would be better against any other team. This match is not evidence that Scarf Mew is overpowered, merely that it can check one specific team archetype (fast and frail) if it knows the exact Pokemon it needs to hit.
Won 7 matches it was supposed to win based on chosen Pokemon.
Lost 4 matches it was supposed to lose based on chosen Pokemon.
Flipped 1 match it should have lost into a win.
Flipped 1 match it should have won into a loss.
Mew's good winrate in this tour was due to people picking it in the correct matchups, not overturning matchups it should have been losing. This indicates that Mew is currently viable, but not broken. People have adapted to its newer sets and we're now seeing a return to the higher viability defensive Mews over the lower viability offensive fishing Mews.
"theres a lot of mons that beat dnite that lost to mew which made that core of two insane... i think when mew is gone it will just be easier for some pokemon to solely focus on dnite without having your teambuilding constricted by mews presence" — Bopher 7/29/22
I rarely see arguments aimed at pairs of Pokemon in 1v1. No one complains about the difficulty of beating all Charizard plus Greninja sets with one Pokemon, because we generally accept that each individual Pokemon has its own set of checks and counters.
Given that, I looked through my builder to find teams with both Mew and Dragonite:
Z-Transform Mew + Z-Fly Dragonite x3
Kee Toss Mew + Choice Band Dragonite x2
Genesis Overheat Mew + Z-Fly Dragonite x1
Z-Reflect Mew + Z-Outrage Dragonite x1
Instead of enabling Dragonite to run what it wants, Mew typically requires specific Dragonite sets with hard-hitting physical Flying or Dragon STABs. Even when the Dragonite and Mew sets complement each other, the core still struggles with Mega Slowbro, Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Sableye, Togekiss, Substitute Charizard, Substitute Mega Metagross, Bulldoze Mega Gyarados, Substitute Z-Blizzard Greninja, Necrozma, Deoxys-Speed, Z-Glaciate Victini, Substitute Ice Punch Jirachi, and other Psychic-types.
Mew counters Dragonite (with the exception of Z-Dragon Dance overcoming some Icy Wind Mewnium Z sets), dampening its power in the metagame rather than increasing it.
Paraphrasing: "Dragonite is broken and we need to ban Mew so that Dragonite becomes more broken and easier to ban."
This seems like faulty reasoning. Attempting to intentionally unbalance a metagame by banning one Pokemon's counters until it becomes broken is not consistent with Smogon's tiering philosophy.
This seems like faulty reasoning. Attempting to intentionally unbalance a metagame by banning one Pokemon's counters until it becomes broken is not consistent with Smogon's tiering philosophy.
No. Mew does not have any single incredible set that warps the meta or forces extreme levels of counterplay. Mew has sufficient checks and counters, and every alternate Mew set comes with heavy opportunity cost. A team built to tackle Mew's main sets will naturally cover its unsets as well. Having three A+ movesets and a plethora of successively worse B-ish sets does not make this Pokemon broken.
Mew has good set diversity leading to some ambiguity on team preview, but this alone is not enough to justify a ban.
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ratio
Mew is a fascinating Pokemon in SM 1v1 that saw a rise in tournament usage between 2021 and 2022, mostly due to the increased popularity of a few specific movesets. Like many Pokemon in the tier, Mew is fairly ambiguous on team preview. It can be one of several options, all with slightly different metagame coverage. Let's take a look at the best and most meta-defining Mew sets of 2022.
Mew @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunder Wave
- Transform
- Seismic Toss
Z-Transform Mew does well against <100 Speed attackers vulnerable to Will-O-Wisp. It can also overcome faster Pokemon by using Thunder Wave followed by Z-Transform, healing back to full and becoming a 400 odd HP version of them. Specifically, this tactic is useful against Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, Landorus-Therian, Mega Mawile, Mega Tyranitar, and physical Sturdy Pokemon.
Normalium Z Mew struggles against Sub Charizard, Magearna, opposing Mew and other Taunt users, Mega Blaziken, Mega Aggron, Slaking, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Mega Altaria, Magnezone, Magneton, Heatran, Kartana, Genesect, Tapu Fini, Primarina, Victini, Zygarde, Type: Null, Mega Audino, Chansey, Porygon2, Smeargle, Krookodile, Mega Gengar, and anything faster than base 100 carrying Substitute. I'd rate this set A+.
Mew @ Kee Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss / Amnesia
Kew is Mew's traditional best set, all the way back from ORAS. The combination of Will-O-Wisp, Roost, and Taunt is enough to devastate slow physical non-fires like Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, opposing Mew, Mega Metagross, Zygarde, Landorus-Therian, Mawile-Mega, and physical Sturdy Pokemon. Amnesia is an option over Seismic Toss, notably used by Squirtell 1v1 and Kentari. While this set theoretically covers a good number of special attackers, relying solely on Will-O-Wisp for damage gives opponents 16 turns to crit and makes Mew even more susceptible to Substitute and recovery.
Seismic Toss Kew loses to Charizard, Magearna, Mega Altaria, Naganadel, Kommo-o, Magnezone, Magneton, Heatran, Mega Blaziken, Tapu Lele, Sub SD Kartana, Genesect, Tapu Fini, Primarina, Victini, and Mega Gengar. Amnesia Kew gains odds versus Charizard Y, Naganadel, Magearna, Mega Altaria, Kommo-o, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, and Primarina, but loses reliability against Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, Mega Metagross, and Ground-types. It also loses entirely to Fire-types, given that Will-O-Wisp is its only form of damage. I'd rate this set A+.
Mew @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 12 SpD / 56 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt / Light Screen
Z-Reflect (or Z-Screens) Mew rose to popularity thanks to Bopher, Potatochan, and Boat. This set allows Mew to overcome the physical Fire-types unafraid of Will-O-Wisp. Incineroar in particular is lured by this set, expecting to Darkest Lariat through Mew's defenses.
Z-Screens Mew loses to Celesteela, Pheromosa, Mega Pinsir, Zapdos, Chansey, Blissey, Mega Gengar, Genesect, Porygon2, Mega Tyranitar, Kartana, Magnezone, Magneton, Ambipom, Landorus-T, Kommo-o, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Tapu Bulu, Archeops, Crustle, and Garchomp. I'd rate this set A.
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 120 HP / 24 Def / 168 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Nasty Plot
- Skill Swap
Present-day Genesis Supernova Mew (used in WCVI) abandons Calm Mind for Nasty Plot and plays around speed control and ability control - extremely important factors in SM 1v1. Icy Wind is also essential versus Garchomp, Zygarde, and Landorus-T.
Icy Genesis Mew loses to Charizard, Victini, Mega Gyarados, Magearna, opposing Mew, Jirachi, Mega Metagross, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, Heatran, Registeel, Chansey, Blissey, Krookodile, Tyranitar, and Mega Tyranitar. I'd rate this set high A or low A+.
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 96 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpA / 156 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Overheat
- Nasty Plot
- Skill Swap / Fake Out
Straight outta 2019, Overheat Mew is an old favorite of many SM ladder players. Fire coverage lets Mew accentuate its Psychic spam with an answer to Steel- and Bug-types. Fake Out improves rolls against Charizard-X and Mega Mawile, or Skill Swap beats all the same Sturdies Fake Out would, plus Zeraora and Torrent Primarina. Though this set has fallen out of favor compared to the stally Mews of today's meta, its theoretical existence prevents several checks like Celesteela and Genesect from being true counters to Mew.
Overheat Genesis Mew loses to Dragonite, Charizard Y, Victini, Mega Gyarados, Garchomp, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Magearna (unless you run CM over Plot), Tapu Fini, Chansey, Blissey, Krookodile, Tyranitar, and Mega Tyranitar. I'd rate this set low A.Mew is countered by Aegislash, Porygon-Z, Meloetta, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, Serperior, Hoopa-Unbound, Greninja, Volcarona, Blacephalon, Necrozma, Deoxys-Speed, Durant, and Togekiss.
Mew is also countered by a few unconventional move choices: Taunt Whimsicott, Bulldoze Mega Gyarados, Toxic Mega Metagross, Calm Mind + Laser Focus + Shadow Ball PsyZ Alakazam, Mega Alakazam, or other Psychic-types.Mew is checked by Substitute users at or above base 100 speed: Charizard, Victini, Mega Metagross, Jirachi, Zapdos, Mega Pinsir, Ambipom, Latios, Raikou, Infernape, etc.
The Steel-types Celesteela, Kartana, Magnezone, Magneton, and Genesect all beat Mew unless it's carrying Fire coverage (Mewnium Z Overheat with appropriate speed and bulk). Manaphy, Carracosta, Mega Pinsir, Mega Gengar, and Zapdos beat Mew except for bulky Genesis Supernova.
Incineroar and Victini beat Mew except for bulky Z-Reflect. Zeraora and Clefable beat Mew lacking Skill Swap. Stall Pokemon like Chansey, Blissey, Registeel, and standard Whimsicott beat any Mew not running Taunt.
These Mew sets look pretty cool but drop an alarming number of important matchups.
Mew @ Groundium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Used during PLV and chosen for a decent Zeraora and Charizard matchup, Z-EQ Mew loses to Primarina, Tapu Fini, Genesect, Porygon2, Mega Tyranitar, Mega Mawile, Magnezone, Magneton, Mega Audino, Type: Null, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Tapu Lele, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Garchomp, Incineroar, Mega Lopunny, Kommo-o, Mega Altaria, Ferrothorn, Archeops, Slaking, and physical Sturdies (Crustle, Donphan, Aggron/Mega Aggron). If your goal is to cover Zeraora and Charizard X with Mew, Modest Skill Swap Genesis Supernova is a better choice. I'd rate this set B-.
Mew @ Electrium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt
- Seismic Toss
Credit to Bopher for this set. Beats a handful of special attackers but loses to Dragonite, Garchomp, Mega Metagross, Mega Mawile, Mega Lopunny, Mega Venusaur, Kommo-o, Slaking, Archeops, Tapu Bulu, Ferrothorn, Mega Blaziken, Donphan, CB Aggron, Crustle, Smeargle, and many other physical attackers. This set struggles to reliably beat Greninja since it has so many chances to Dark Pulse flinch or crit through Z-Twave's +1 SpDef, in addition to counterplay with Sub+Haze. I'd rate this set low B-.
Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 96 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Gunk Shot
- Flare Blitz / Rock Tomb
- Ice Punch / Earthquake
Credit again to Bopher for this set. A frequent pop-up in the "coverage" argument, Life Orb Mew covers a few checks while losing a ton of other matchups. Life Orb Mew can tech Tapu Bulu and Tapu Fini (but not Primarina or Tapu Lele) with Gunk Shot, it can surprise Genesect and Ferrothorn with Flare Blitz or Overheat, pop Sturdies with Fake Out plus appropriate coverage, and nail the 4x Ice weaks Zygarde, Garchomp, and Landorus-T with Ice Punch or Ice Beam. Using Rock Tomb and Earthquake, Life Orb Mew can beat Charizard if it wins the speed tie, but that means giving up two of Poison, Fire, or Ice coverage.
Life Orb Mew does however drop many important matchups: Mega Mawile, Magearna, Mega Metagross, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Tapu Lele, Mega Altaria, Naganadel, Jirachi, and stall Pokemon like Mega Venusaur, Registeel, Type: Null, and Mega Audino. It's an amusing if sometimes unreliable lure set, often relying on speed ties or low accuracy coverage. I would rate this set B.There are other sets to be theorized, but each new wacky set will lose more matchups than it gains. If you're trying to build serious teams with or against Mew, you should be considering Z-Transform, Kee Berry, Psychium Z Reflect, and Genesis Supernova. These sets will do a better job in battle 99% of the time compared to Mew's unsets.
Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Outrage
- Rock Slide
- Leech Life
Scarf Mew is interesting because of its unique matchup spread. Superpower one-shots Greninja, Outrage and Rock Slide deal with Charizard forms, while Leech Life can be used against Serperior and opposing Psychic types. This Mew drops the most matchups a Mew would expect to win: Dragonite, Gyarados, Mega Gyarados, Mega Metagross, Zeraora, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Mega Mawile, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Mega Altaria, Mega Venusaur, physical Sturdies, Fighting- and Poison-types. Special Mew is sometimes chosen instead for its Psychic / Ice Beam / Overheat combo, but it has a similar number of forfeited matchups.
Choice Scarf Mew does lure a handful of counters, making it a somewhat viable matchup fish against the right opponent. I'd rate this set B- (though my WC teammates would likely rate it lower).In PLV, Mew:torterrax vs gorilaa
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1509664037
Icy Wind Genesis Mew beats Garchomp
Lancer vs Squirtell
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514617977
Mew loses to Buginium Z Pheromosa
Rumia vs torterrax
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514837189
Light Screen Mew beats non-eball Manaphy
XSC vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1513981005
Z-Earthquake Mew beats Rhyperior
XSC vs Squirtell
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529398358
Z-Earthquake Sucker Mew beats Rhyperior
(Any Mew would beat Rhyperior but these were funny to watch)
Bopher vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1512674704
Groundium Z Mew beats non-AB Heatran
STABLE vs Rosa
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514518766
Z-Reflect Mew without Taunt loses to Rest Zygarde
TSC vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514498787-vj73udp8pzq5qs7c72oi1piigtb2e7gpw
Toxic Mew without Taunt loses to Rest Zygarde
XSC vs Boat
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1524945900-m72d2ps4ehij1x4akuq0nik2iwhhbtdpw
Z-Gunk Shot Mew beats Serperior
Funniest match I've seen in years. Serp carries Sub for a reason.
AOPSuser vs TSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1524884013
Genesis Supernova Mew without Icy Wind loses to Z-Fly Landorus
Denis vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529990242
Amnesia Kew beats Mega Diancie
Rumia vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534955386
Genesis Mew beats SD Tapu Bulu
Squirtell vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534111016-lwv269epybj2obct8sqghzzvca7sg2mpw
Choice Scarf Ice Beam Mew loses to Sucker Golem
Boat vs ToastedBunzzz
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534516157-8qvnqszj8tpngbftd3nxrwjv2d1gg7ypw
Plot Genesis Mew loses to Blue Flare Victini
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534518422-ygcymug9vz0stkpmriviyj84qtpohu5pw
Z-Reflect Mew beats Incineroar
XSC vs Denis
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1534308248
Rockium Z Sucker Mew beats Scarf Dark Pulse Porygon-Z
Potatochan vs Jamez
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1535590027
Z-Earthquake Mew beats Z-Cel Victini
Boat vs TSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1549649304-metsfq29e7zgyuiga2i6hprmmdl0hvjpw
Z-Earthquake Mew loses to Serperior
XSC vs Edgar
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1549920931
CM Mew loses to Laser Focus Meloetta
Bopher vs LBDC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1559566647-zhqes8jgv3b0m69qmcyxghhnboj8ep0pw
Z-Reflect Toss Mew beats Mega Mawile
Won 8 matches it was supposed to win based on chosen Pokemon.
Lost 6 matches it was supposed to lose based on chosen Pokemon.
Flipped 4 matches it should have lost into a win with a niche set (Poisonium Z, Groundium Z, and Z-Reflect Toss).
Flipped 2 matches it should have won into losses due to using the wrong niche set (against Landorus-T and Golem).
This was a good tour for Mew, and a big reason for the "broken mew" opinions of the last few months. XSTATIC COLD's unique offensive Z-Move choices plus the rise of Z-Earthquake and Z-Reflect Mew all contributed to an idea of an overpowering metagame threat. The stats point to Mew being viable, but even at its peak of usage and alternate set abuse, Mew was always a few steps behind the big dragons of the metagame. A respectable choice with a good winrate, but not really broken.In WCVI, Mew:Baleblaze vs Kentari
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604657877-g4h6wmdksh9fx0un2nke5apl27uw5uzpw
Z-Reflect Mew loses to Laser Focus Gigalith
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604659701-48dydb8outgyovqrmnl1b6n1taou6rupw
Z-Reflect Mew beats Choice Band Aggron
Bopher vs Kentari
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604334903
Taunt Toss Z-Transform Mew beats non-Taunt Z-Transform Mew
(Z-Transform instead of Thunder Wave might have flipped this, but Kentari forgot the full heal goes off regardless of the move failing against a Transformed opponent.)
Elo Bandit vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1604163038
Genesis Supernova Mew beats Waterium Tapu Fini
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1617254774
Genesis Supernova Mew loses to Tapunium Z Tapu Fini
TSC vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1600453531
Scarf Zen Headbutt Mew loses to Bulk Up Buzzwole
bea vs XSC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1603580832
Earthquake Mew beats Zeraora
XSC vs mishimono
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1609577257-cuqwg0rzcnx8wrn6n3xxyv3qq4kst9mpw
Kee Mew beats Mega Mawile
crying vs crucify
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1602231892-chx8nfuzf0jqpm6kwasc8ieu37wnqnepw
Amnesia Kew loses to Laser Focus Meloetta
Squirtell vs LRXC
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1622984411
Nasty Plot Genesis Supernova Mew beats Encore Togekiss
Elo Bandit vs Dez
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen71v1-637094
Reflect Z-Transform Mew beats Facade Mega Altaria
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen71v1-637103
Modest Genesis Mew beats Charizard X
Landon vs Tol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1620354247
Scarf Mew beats Band Archeops
Tol used the same Choice Scarf weak team over and over against multiple opponents. Any special Scarf (not just Mew) rolls over that composition, and a more standard Mew would be better against any other team. This match is not evidence that Scarf Mew is overpowered, merely that it can check one specific team archetype (fast and frail) if it knows the exact Pokemon it needs to hit.
Won 7 matches it was supposed to win based on chosen Pokemon.
Lost 4 matches it was supposed to lose based on chosen Pokemon.
Flipped 1 match it should have lost into a win.
Flipped 1 match it should have won into a loss.
Mew's good winrate in this tour was due to people picking it in the correct matchups, not overturning matchups it should have been losing. This indicates that Mew is currently viable, but not broken. People have adapted to its newer sets and we're now seeing a return to the higher viability defensive Mews over the lower viability offensive fishing Mews.Does Mew deserve to be banned from SM 1v1?"theres a lot of mons that beat dnite that lost to mew which made that core of two insane... i think when mew is gone it will just be easier for some pokemon to solely focus on dnite without having your teambuilding constricted by mews presence" — Bopher 7/29/22
I rarely see arguments aimed at pairs of Pokemon in 1v1. No one complains about the difficulty of beating all Charizard plus Greninja sets with one Pokemon, because we generally accept that each individual Pokemon has its own set of checks and counters.
Given that, I looked through my builder to find teams with both Mew and Dragonite:
Z-Transform Mew + Z-Fly Dragonite x3
Kee Toss Mew + Choice Band Dragonite x2
Genesis Overheat Mew + Z-Fly Dragonite x1
Z-Reflect Mew + Z-Outrage Dragonite x1
Instead of enabling Dragonite to run what it wants, Mew typically requires specific Dragonite sets with hard-hitting physical Flying or Dragon STABs. Even when the Dragonite and Mew sets complement each other, the core still struggles with Mega Slowbro, Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Sableye, Togekiss, Substitute Charizard, Substitute Mega Metagross, Bulldoze Mega Gyarados, Substitute Z-Blizzard Greninja, Necrozma, Deoxys-Speed, Z-Glaciate Victini, Substitute Ice Punch Jirachi, and other Psychic-types.
Mew counters Dragonite (with the exception of Z-Dragon Dance overcoming some Icy Wind Mewnium Z sets), dampening its power in the metagame rather than increasing it.Paraphrasing: "Dragonite is broken and we need to ban Mew so that Dragonite becomes more broken and easier to ban."
This seems like faulty reasoning. Attempting to intentionally unbalance a metagame by banning one Pokemon's counters until it becomes broken is not consistent with Smogon's tiering philosophy.
No. Mew does not have any single incredible set that warps the meta or forces extreme levels of counterplay. Mew has sufficient checks and counters, and every alternate Mew set comes with heavy opportunity cost. A team built to tackle Mew's main sets will naturally cover its unsets as well. Having three A+ movesets and a plethora of successively worse B-ish sets does not make this Pokemon broken.
Mew has good set diversity leading to some ambiguity on team preview, but this alone is not enough to justify a ban.
I’m not gonna let this shit slide anymore
BAN DYNAMIC PUNCH FROM ADV 1v1
The move is simply uncompetitive.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1633097178
Take this replay for example, my odds of winning this mu is 25% I miss the first one but land the second, it is turns into a literal coinflip and I win the coinflip. I was supposed to lose this yet I didn’t somehow. Dpunch is 50% accurate with hitting yourself in confusion is also 50%, leading to 25% to hit yourself with additional damage, in 1v1 this can make or break a game. This shit is worse than king’s rock (which is banned btw) Like what deddd mans said, it turns mus in your favor and turns them upside down, and don’t give me that bullshit of “metagross can beat Blissey with DPunch” ive literally missed EIGHT dynamic punches in a row and lost the game one time. Making the inconsistency of this move also effect the opposite side of the spectrum. I am advocating for a dynamic punch ban please.
BAN DYNAMIC PUNCH FROM ADV 1v1
The move is simply uncompetitive.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1633097178
Take this replay for example, my odds of winning this mu is 25% I miss the first one but land the second, it is turns into a literal coinflip and I win the coinflip. I was supposed to lose this yet I didn’t somehow. Dpunch is 50% accurate with hitting yourself in confusion is also 50%, leading to 25% to hit yourself with additional damage, in 1v1 this can make or break a game. This shit is worse than king’s rock (which is banned btw) Like what deddd mans said, it turns mus in your favor and turns them upside down, and don’t give me that bullshit of “metagross can beat Blissey with DPunch” ive literally missed EIGHT dynamic punches in a row and lost the game one time. Making the inconsistency of this move also effect the opposite side of the spectrum. I am advocating for a dynamic punch ban please.
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This man is not permitting this shit to slide for any longer.
The adv council has talked a bit about dynamic punch and we don't currently have a verdict as we're waiting for more people to talk about this to see what the adv playerbase is leaning toward. This post in no way represents what the council thinks, and is just my two cents on the situation(is it ten cents? whatever it doesn't matter).
First of all, smb's math while it might be true for this particular replay, really doesn't represent their real chance of winning in that battle. Here's a short explanation on why the odds of winning that battle was actually in their favor rather than XSC's.
Tldr; Supermemebroz had a 56.25% chance of winning the battle, and they just happened to get the coin flip to win the battle.
Now even with the math laid out, many people may object to such a "luck oriented" move being included in the tier, which I can completely understand. Losing to a miss or to hitting yourself in confusion is never fun, and you might feel like you got robbed of a battle. However, I consider luck to be so integral to the tier of adv 1v1 that in the grand scheme of everything this is nothing short of a normal battle. For example at some point I considered aerodactyl to have a decent chance of beating zapdos, since you can either win by critting or by flinching a rock slide; despite the fact that zapdos lives a rock slide and should always be beating aerodactyl in a perfect world. Luck can neither be prepared for or avoided, and every battle in adv is somewhat affected by luck. SuperMemeBroz says that they've won by getting lucky with dynamic punch, and that they've lost by missing with dynamic punch, listing both of these things as reasons why dynamic punch is broken. I disagree, as I think that the good and bad luck someone experiences with dynamic punch will even out, and have no real effect on the tier. I can freeze you with ice beam, you can freeze me with ice beam, and at the end of the day none of us get a real advantage from this fact.
Dynamic punch does also have real uses outside of "cheesing matchups". Dynamic punch serves as a sure and reliable way for metagross to beat blissey, since metagross can miss dynamic punch as many times as it wants and can click dynamic punch until it lands and ohkos the blissey.
Finally I just want to try to reason why we've chosen to ban bright powder/kings rock and not dynamic punch as of today. This comes down to really two main reasons, the first being a lack of precedent(thanks to hungryfoodies for helping me remember the word cause I forgot it). No other tier has banned dynamic punch yet, dpp getting the closest by banning machamp for abusing no guard dynamic punch. Alternatively, every 1v1 tier(that I know of) has banned bright powder/kings rock, and adv only got the idea to ban these items after other tiers did it first. I think the reason no other tier has banned dynamic punch yet is the same reason adv hasn't, and is a pretty good case for keeping the move in the tier.
The second reason why dynamic punch and these luck items are different is a combination of how much they add to the tier, how much counterplay exists, and the opportunity cost of running it. Bright powder and kings rock add nothing of substance to the tier, and have really no counterplay aside from kings rock losing to faster pokemon that can't get flinched. Bright powder and kings rock also have little opportunity cost, as the only thing you're missing out on by running it is another item and adv has a small list of viable items, especially for special attackers. These 3 factors make banning bright powder/kings rock a no brainer. Dynamic punch, however, gives fighting coverage to certain pokemon, can decide the fate of matchups without involving luck(metagross vs blissey), and is a strong move in and of itself. Dynamic punch's possible counterplay includes killing the dynamic punch user before it gets a hit off, or just straight up using a pokemon that doesn't mind the confusion. All special attackers will run 0 attack IVs to reduce the damage that confusion can do to them, and stall type pokemon like vaporeon don't care about metagross or jirachi clicking dynamic punch cause its less reliable than other moves they have and the confusion will likely never decide a matchup like metagross vs vaporeon. Finally, running and clicking dynamic punch comes with a fairly large opportunity cost, cause running dynamic punch just means a move slot you possibly wasted for little return on investment.
Well that's it. I wrote a lot so you don't have to read everything I said but I'd love it if you did. Please feel free to respond to my post with your own thoughts on the matter, at the end of the day I'm just one person who didn't even qualify for adv lt and I definitely don't know everything there is to know about adv 1v1. The council is talking and I'm sure if enough people want dynamic punch gone it will be banned, I just want to offer up a counter argument for keeping dynamic punch in the tier. Thanks for (maybe) reading, and I'll talk to you later.
First of all, smb's math while it might be true for this particular replay, really doesn't represent their real chance of winning in that battle. Here's a short explanation on why the odds of winning that battle was actually in their favor rather than XSC's.
So in the battle there's four possible scenarios. Either jirachi hits two dynamic punches in a row, misses the first and hits the second, hits the first and misses the second, or misses both in a row. Each of these scenarios have an equally likely chance of happening, so we can calculate the chance to win in each scenario and average them all out.
Scenario 1: (hit+hit)
Hitting two dynamic punches in a row will always win, plain and simple. 100% win chance.
Scenario 2: (hit+miss)
Hitting the first dynamic punch guarantees confusion, and from the replay we can see a dynamic punch hit into a confusion self-hit will kill. Ursaring can hit itself in confusion either on turn 1 or turn 2, and has a 50% chance on either turn. We only need ursaring to hit itself once in two turns, and so jirachi has a 75% chance to win in this scenario.
Scenario 3: (miss+hit)
This is what happened in the replay, jirachi hits on the second turn and confuses ursaring. Ursaring can either hit itself and lose or hit jirachi and win, which gives jirachi a 50% chance to win in this scenario.
Scenario 4: (miss+miss)
Ooh, bad luck. Sorry you have a 0% chance to win if this happens.
Averaging the chance of winning in each scenario, we get (100+75+50+0)/4 which is equal to 225/4, which is equal to a 56.25% chance of jirachi winning. Jirachi and ursaring can both crit so crit chances even out and I decided to ignore them.
Scenario 1: (hit+hit)
Hitting two dynamic punches in a row will always win, plain and simple. 100% win chance.
Scenario 2: (hit+miss)
Hitting the first dynamic punch guarantees confusion, and from the replay we can see a dynamic punch hit into a confusion self-hit will kill. Ursaring can hit itself in confusion either on turn 1 or turn 2, and has a 50% chance on either turn. We only need ursaring to hit itself once in two turns, and so jirachi has a 75% chance to win in this scenario.
Scenario 3: (miss+hit)
This is what happened in the replay, jirachi hits on the second turn and confuses ursaring. Ursaring can either hit itself and lose or hit jirachi and win, which gives jirachi a 50% chance to win in this scenario.
Scenario 4: (miss+miss)
Ooh, bad luck. Sorry you have a 0% chance to win if this happens.
Averaging the chance of winning in each scenario, we get (100+75+50+0)/4 which is equal to 225/4, which is equal to a 56.25% chance of jirachi winning. Jirachi and ursaring can both crit so crit chances even out and I decided to ignore them.
Now even with the math laid out, many people may object to such a "luck oriented" move being included in the tier, which I can completely understand. Losing to a miss or to hitting yourself in confusion is never fun, and you might feel like you got robbed of a battle. However, I consider luck to be so integral to the tier of adv 1v1 that in the grand scheme of everything this is nothing short of a normal battle. For example at some point I considered aerodactyl to have a decent chance of beating zapdos, since you can either win by critting or by flinching a rock slide; despite the fact that zapdos lives a rock slide and should always be beating aerodactyl in a perfect world. Luck can neither be prepared for or avoided, and every battle in adv is somewhat affected by luck. SuperMemeBroz says that they've won by getting lucky with dynamic punch, and that they've lost by missing with dynamic punch, listing both of these things as reasons why dynamic punch is broken. I disagree, as I think that the good and bad luck someone experiences with dynamic punch will even out, and have no real effect on the tier. I can freeze you with ice beam, you can freeze me with ice beam, and at the end of the day none of us get a real advantage from this fact.
Dynamic punch does also have real uses outside of "cheesing matchups". Dynamic punch serves as a sure and reliable way for metagross to beat blissey, since metagross can miss dynamic punch as many times as it wants and can click dynamic punch until it lands and ohkos the blissey.
Finally I just want to try to reason why we've chosen to ban bright powder/kings rock and not dynamic punch as of today. This comes down to really two main reasons, the first being a lack of precedent(thanks to hungryfoodies for helping me remember the word cause I forgot it). No other tier has banned dynamic punch yet, dpp getting the closest by banning machamp for abusing no guard dynamic punch. Alternatively, every 1v1 tier(that I know of) has banned bright powder/kings rock, and adv only got the idea to ban these items after other tiers did it first. I think the reason no other tier has banned dynamic punch yet is the same reason adv hasn't, and is a pretty good case for keeping the move in the tier.
The second reason why dynamic punch and these luck items are different is a combination of how much they add to the tier, how much counterplay exists, and the opportunity cost of running it. Bright powder and kings rock add nothing of substance to the tier, and have really no counterplay aside from kings rock losing to faster pokemon that can't get flinched. Bright powder and kings rock also have little opportunity cost, as the only thing you're missing out on by running it is another item and adv has a small list of viable items, especially for special attackers. These 3 factors make banning bright powder/kings rock a no brainer. Dynamic punch, however, gives fighting coverage to certain pokemon, can decide the fate of matchups without involving luck(metagross vs blissey), and is a strong move in and of itself. Dynamic punch's possible counterplay includes killing the dynamic punch user before it gets a hit off, or just straight up using a pokemon that doesn't mind the confusion. All special attackers will run 0 attack IVs to reduce the damage that confusion can do to them, and stall type pokemon like vaporeon don't care about metagross or jirachi clicking dynamic punch cause its less reliable than other moves they have and the confusion will likely never decide a matchup like metagross vs vaporeon. Finally, running and clicking dynamic punch comes with a fairly large opportunity cost, cause running dynamic punch just means a move slot you possibly wasted for little return on investment.
Well that's it. I wrote a lot so you don't have to read everything I said but I'd love it if you did. Please feel free to respond to my post with your own thoughts on the matter, at the end of the day I'm just one person who didn't even qualify for adv lt and I definitely don't know everything there is to know about adv 1v1. The council is talking and I'm sure if enough people want dynamic punch gone it will be banned, I just want to offer up a counter argument for keeping dynamic punch in the tier. Thanks for (maybe) reading, and I'll talk to you later.
Funny replays+brags(I have to compact this)+ratio
Hate to be pedantic but the crit chances technically should be taken into account. 25% of the time jirachi is not given a chance to crit (it misses twice). There is also the chance that jirachi hits and crits turn 1 (1/24) and in this situation ursaring does not get a chance to crit. There is then the last but least likely chance for a crit where jirachi misses turn 1, then doesn’t get crit and then crits turn 2 (happens a very significant 1.84ish% of the time). The probability goes both sides slightly favouring ursaring in general but I’m in Italy rn so not gonna do a proper calculation.
In conclusion I have a 0% chance of getting any bitches if I care this much about a children’s video game.
While luck is an important part of pokemon, the argument that smbz ia making is that dynamic punch induces excessive and uncompetitive amount of luck. Just because things might "even out" in the long run doesn't make it OK. Especially in a tournament setting, where only up to 5 games are being played, having something that can force coinflips is very uncompetitive.
This is true, and imo is the only valid counter-argument for dynamic punch. Betting on hitting one out of eight 50/50s is not unreasonable, and it does have a niche on some pokemon.
There is no precedent for banning dynamic punch in particular, but other tiers have banned moves such as hypnosis and swagger for similar reasons.
Getting ohko's in adv is much more difficult compared to recent gens because of the powercreep. The most reliable counterplay involves tanking the move, either with a fighting resist or by having a lot of defense. Even then, many mus can be forced into a 25% chance to lose. The main issue is that mons that resist dynamic punch are few and far between in adv, and there are tons of mons that learn dynamic punch. It just becomes a massive constraint in the builder if you have to prep such that all of your mons resist dynamic punch, or ohko everything just to avoid getting forced into a coinflip.
Also I forgot to mention that in my opinion coin flips are not healthy when they’re happening this frequently. Completely fine on ladder but given adv is no longer on ladder this is only going to happen in tour where the luck won’t necessarily even out. I know this isn’t necessarily your opinion and just counterpoints but I feel like whether SMB had a 25% or a 50% chance to win doesn’t change the fact that games like that just make both players feel bad.
Removing dynamic punch would mean people actually get rewarded for clicking a risky counter instead of clicking it and getting confused. Dynamic punch can bullshit its way through many teams on preview. For example, you are using band metagross and their counter is swampert. Swampert is a perfectly fine counter, except dynamic punch can easily bullshit its way through with just one confuse. It's not a numbers game deciding whether something is competitive or not, because the numbers don't really support a ban for an item/move because they are unlikely to happen most of the time. Sleep has recently been banned in most gens because it removes skill from a game that should reward skill. Hitting a hypnosis is no different to getting a dynamic punch confuse. Both reward the person who played worse. I get the blissey argument but, is slightly changing how one mu works between like 2 mons and blissey really worth it when it sacrifices so much of the skill involved in playing the tier?
It is no secret that old gen suspect tests for 1v1 have been a bit controversial as of late, whether it's aspects like players who didn't really play all that many games getting to vote, players whose most recent experience in a meta stemming from almost a year ago getting to vote, people who support a slot in team tours without actually playing it not getting to vote, the dwindling ability for tiers like DPP to RBY to even have suspects, and so on. It's for these reasons that I would like to introduce a potential additional means of qualifying for suspects: Suspect Test Live Tours
The concept is simple: akin to how the recently concluded 1v1 Live operated, there will be a period of time where live tours are being hosted, and a scoreboard of players' performances will be maintained, with the top players by the end of the live tour period earning the right to vote in the suspect.
The benefits of including this idea as an additional metric for determining qualified voters are numerous:
- Players now have a proper opportunity to qualify for a suspect after it has been announced, rather than having to preemptively play a tier in a team tour (assuming they get drafted + allowed to be in that slot) or have a fortunate enough run in Classic cups and simply hope that a suspect happens.
- More methods of qualification means that you can afford to be stricter about reqs for other criteria due to the higher influx of qualifiers that will come from the live tours, thus making it more likely that whoever does qualify likely knows the tier well/is sufficiently active in it.
- Tiers like RBY-DPP 1v1 (and potentially BW/ORAS in the near future) that aren't involved in 1v1 team tours will have greater capability to have actual suspect tests.
- Players who support a slot in team tours without actually playing it themselves no longer have to qualify off of solely Classic cups or otherwise be excluded from suspects just because they didn't actually slot into the tier to click buttons, despite actually building the teams.
- This similarly provides an opportunity to qualify for players who clearly care about the metagame but may have just fallen short of qualifying in WC or Cups or etc.
- These live tours offer additional means for the playerbase as a whole to showcase their interest and investment in old gens.
- The players who qualify from these live tours will have the freshest metagame experience possible.
With all that said, however, there will undeniably be some challenges faced in implementing these live tours:
- All the challenges that come from hosting 1v1 Live will apply here as well, namely things like: getting people to host these tours, hosting at different times, determining how many points people get per round, maintaining the scoreboard, etc.
- You will have to determine how to make the live tour schedule operate within the confines of a 2 week suspect period, as opposed to the 6 weeks that 1v1 Live had for its live tour section, including how many live tours you even have during the 2 week suspect period.
- Implementing this new system will naturally require some fine-tuning in order to find a good threshold to use for determining qualifiers.
For the sake of demonstrating how this system could potentially look, I've put together an example sheet of what a concluded set of live tours, as well as the players who qualify from them, may look like:
In this example, I took a few liberties in how I handled the hypothetical set of live tournaments:
- I went with 6 live tours, all being on Fri/Sat/Sun for the sake of emulating how 1v1 Live handled their tours each week, as well as having 2 weeks of tours for each gen of 1v1 involved.
- I used the same scaling point system 1v1 Live used, with points varying based on the size of each tour (32 capping at 7 for the winner, 24 capping at 6, 16 capping at 5, etc).
- I randomized which players got points, as well as what the size of each tournament was.
In this example, I ultimately did not mark who would have qualified, given that that is something that is still somewhat open for interpretation as a result of how new this idea is. If I were to take a shot in the dark and cap the threshold for qualifying for this example sheet, I would probably set it at like 8 or 9, maybe 10 points in order to qualify. As councils, you'd naturally have the discretion to set the cap wherever you think is appropriate, especially since the flow of points in general could vary quite a bit, based on how many signups you get for each live tour.
- I went with 6 live tours, all being on Fri/Sat/Sun for the sake of emulating how 1v1 Live handled their tours each week, as well as having 2 weeks of tours for each gen of 1v1 involved.
- I used the same scaling point system 1v1 Live used, with points varying based on the size of each tour (32 capping at 7 for the winner, 24 capping at 6, 16 capping at 5, etc).
- I randomized which players got points, as well as what the size of each tournament was.
In this example, I ultimately did not mark who would have qualified, given that that is something that is still somewhat open for interpretation as a result of how new this idea is. If I were to take a shot in the dark and cap the threshold for qualifying for this example sheet, I would probably set it at like 8 or 9, maybe 10 points in order to qualify. As councils, you'd naturally have the discretion to set the cap wherever you think is appropriate, especially since the flow of points in general could vary quite a bit, based on how many signups you get for each live tour.
With all that said, another suggestion I'd like to make regarding old gen suspects is for the possibility of merging reqs criteria whenever players might fall short in multiple differing categories. As it stands right now, someone could potentially go 4-1 in a Classic cup and 1-2 in WC and end up not qualifying for a suspect because they were one game short on both criteria. If the above suggestion is implemented, you could even throw in getting 7 points through the live tours as well and still not qualify. If you merged the reqs criteria when determining qualifiers to allow players like these to make it in, it would only help in painting a more accurate picture of who is invested in the metagame, in addition to providing councils more incentive to continue making reqs even stricter which simultaneously mitigates the impact that players who just happened to get a lucky run without actually knowing the metagame very well may have.
All in all, I believe that implementing these changes will help bring our old gens to have more robust suspect tests that will help pull their respective metagames out of the funk that's been building up for the past year, as well as provide more opportunities for activity within each old gen. Thanks for reading.
ORAS Update
First: Potatochan and OM have left ORAS council, thanks to both of them for their time on it, and pqs has been added!
Vr shifts (A lot):
A+ -> S-
A -> S-
A- -> A
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
B- -> B
B- -> B
C+ -> B
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C -> B-
C -> B-
C -> C+
C- -> C
C- -> C
C- -> C
D -> C-
A+ -> A-
A+ -> A
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> C
B- -> C+
B- -> C-
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C-
D -> UR
D -> UR
Samples: will be revamped before ORAS cup
Suspects: surveyed wc playerbase + council on charizardite x, y, and manaphy. no suspects was the plurality, with suspecting each of the three mons having support to be suspected, but not enough at the moment. will continue interacting with the playerbase throughout no johns/classic and see after if thats changes
First: Potatochan and OM have left ORAS council, thanks to both of them for their time on it, and pqs has been added!
Vr shifts (A lot):
A+ -> S- A -> S- A- -> A A- -> A B+ -> A- B+ -> A- B -> B+ B -> B+ B -> B+ B- -> B B- -> B B- -> B C+ -> B C+ -> B- C+ -> B- C -> B- C -> B- C -> C+ C- -> C C- -> C C- -> C D -> C- A+ -> A- A+ -> A A+ -> A A -> A- A -> A- A- -> B+ B+ -> B B+ -> B B+ -> B B -> B- B -> B- B -> B- B -> B- B -> B- B -> C B- -> C+ B- -> C- C+ -> C C+ -> C C+ -> C C -> C- C -> C- C -> C- D -> UR D -> URSamples: will be revamped before ORAS cup
Suspects: surveyed wc playerbase + council on charizardite x, y, and manaphy. no suspects was the plurality, with suspecting each of the three mons having support to be suspected, but not enough at the moment. will continue interacting with the playerbase throughout no johns/classic and see after if thats changes
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BW Updates!
Firstly, thanks to all the people who played this tier or supported players in this tier during World Cup! Thanks for being a part of the development of the meta! Now for BW Council updates! Potatochan has left the BW Council. We extend our thanks for the time he spent on Council. To replace Potatochan, Itchy is now a member of BW Council! Please congratulate them for their many achievements over the past week or so!
Now for our Post-WC Viability Rankings Update!
Porygon-Z from A- to A
Terrakion from B to B+
Ambipom from B- to B
Cinccino from C- to C
Keldeo from S to S-
Latios from S- to A+
Haxorus from A to A-
Raikou from A to A-
Scrafty from A to A-
Meloetta from A- to B+
Sableye from A- to B+
Registeel from B+ to B-
Heracross from B to B-
Infernape from B to B-
Alakazam from B- to C+
Blissey from B- to C+
Porygon2 from B- to C+
Sceptile from B- to C+
Excadrill from C+ to C
Jumpluff from C+ to UR
Moltres from C+ to C
Bronzong from C to C-
Cofagrigus from C to C-
Hitmonlee from C to C-
Smeargle from C to D
Staraptor from C to C-
Escavalier from C- to D
Samples will hopefully be updated before BW Cup begins! We are still revamping the BW Sets Compendium and are hard at work on analyses! I want to give a big shoutout to all the people who have helped out with these things! Thanks so much for all of y'alls help!!
Firstly, thanks to all the people who played this tier or supported players in this tier during World Cup! Thanks for being a part of the development of the meta! Now for BW Council updates! Potatochan has left the BW Council. We extend our thanks for the time he spent on Council. To replace Potatochan, Itchy is now a member of BW Council! Please congratulate them for their many achievements over the past week or so!
Now for our Post-WC Viability Rankings Update!
Porygon-Z from A- to A Terrakion from B to B+ Ambipom from B- to B Cinccino from C- to C Keldeo from S to S- Latios from S- to A+ Haxorus from A to A- Raikou from A to A- Scrafty from A to A- Meloetta from A- to B+ Sableye from A- to B+ Registeel from B+ to B- Heracross from B to B- Infernape from B to B- Alakazam from B- to C+ Blissey from B- to C+ Porygon2 from B- to C+ Sceptile from B- to C+ Excadrill from C+ to C Jumpluff from C+ to UR Moltres from C+ to C Bronzong from C to C- Cofagrigus from C to C- Hitmonlee from C to C- Smeargle from C to D Staraptor from C to C- Escavalier from C- to DSamples will hopefully be updated before BW Cup begins! We are still revamping the BW Sets Compendium and are hard at work on analyses! I want to give a big shoutout to all the people who have helped out with these things! Thanks so much for all of y'alls help!!
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SHINY IRON DIAMOND
Phalloid Amanitas (Venusaur-Mega) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 140 HP / 240 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Iron Colossus (Aggron) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Avalanche
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
Amber Pacific (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Foul Play
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 140 HP / 240 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Iron Colossus (Aggron) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Avalanche
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
Amber Pacific (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Foul Play
• Mega Venusaur beats many important Water- and Steel-types: Mega Gyarados, Greninja, Slowbro, Tapu Fini, Primarina, Magearna, Mega Mawile, and Magnezone. It also beats Fairies lacking secondary Psychic-typing.
• Choice Band Aggron obliterates Dragonite, Blaziken, Nagandel and both Charizard forms with Avalanche, Earthquake and Rock Slide. It also covers Fairy-types with Heavy Slam: Mega Gardevoir, Tapu Lele, Mega Mawile, Clefable, and Togekiss.
• Mega Sableye shuts down Mew, Mega Metagross, Meloetta, Zeraora, Zygarde-Complete, Aegislash, Heatran, Mega Venusaur, Whimsicott, Jumpluff, Landorus-Therian, and physical Sturdies: Aggron, Donphan, Crustle, and Golem. This Mega Sableye EV spread is for Kommo-o: Clanging Scales can be PP stalled with Recover, then Foul Play twice KOs it. Will-O-Wisp and Recover allow Mega Sableye to stall effectively against physical attackers, and Taunt beats opposing stall Pokemon like Mew, Type: Null, and Registeel.
• This team has literrally 0 weakness with common sets
• Team built by The God of 1v1, XSTATIC COLD and Description Written by XSTATIC COLD, The God of 1v1, Elo Bandit
• Choice Band Aggron obliterates Dragonite, Blaziken, Nagandel and both Charizard forms with Avalanche, Earthquake and Rock Slide. It also covers Fairy-types with Heavy Slam: Mega Gardevoir, Tapu Lele, Mega Mawile, Clefable, and Togekiss.
• Mega Sableye shuts down Mew, Mega Metagross, Meloetta, Zeraora, Zygarde-Complete, Aegislash, Heatran, Mega Venusaur, Whimsicott, Jumpluff, Landorus-Therian, and physical Sturdies: Aggron, Donphan, Crustle, and Golem. This Mega Sableye EV spread is for Kommo-o: Clanging Scales can be PP stalled with Recover, then Foul Play twice KOs it. Will-O-Wisp and Recover allow Mega Sableye to stall effectively against physical attackers, and Taunt beats opposing stall Pokemon like Mew, Type: Null, and Registeel.
• This team has literrally 0 weakness with common sets
• Team built by The God of 1v1, XSTATIC COLD and Description Written by XSTATIC COLD, The God of 1v1, Elo Bandit
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