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Metagame 1v1 Old Gens
- Thread starter DEG
- Start date
hello again, just posting to say i will be resigning from bw, dpp, and adv (for good measure) councils. staying on oras though obviously
for bw with my last action(s) i'll be removing eblurb cause hes dead, and will be adding neomon and Gym Socks!, welcome aboard. there was a vr update that was Gonna happen during like week 5/6 of pl but Bum ass Potatochan didnt vote so coffin, that should be coming out soon + samples with the new council members joining. for the meta i dont have much to say, i think its annoying but playable, lotta cool mons/techs you can use. idt anything is broken/should be banned, i can see arguments for lax but dont personally believe it should be banned rn. also DEG will be leading bw now
for dpp, i only built 1 team a week for mg this pl but it was not bad, and i think the meta is honestly good besides clef and jirachi both being super annoying and some other Stuff. the mechanics are still terrible though, and bc of that and some other LeBrokens i dont know if prepping for and playing bo5's of it will be better than sm2 or mg if there's discussion for readding dpp for wc (which there will be), but my gut says no because of how it was in the past but shrug
adv lives and dies with logan but tbh i hope it gets more tours that people care about because it still has its charm even if i think the meta is bad and zap/scep are pretty broken
for bw with my last action(s) i'll be removing eblurb cause hes dead, and will be adding neomon and Gym Socks!, welcome aboard. there was a vr update that was Gonna happen during like week 5/6 of pl but Bum ass Potatochan didnt vote so coffin, that should be coming out soon + samples with the new council members joining. for the meta i dont have much to say, i think its annoying but playable, lotta cool mons/techs you can use. idt anything is broken/should be banned, i can see arguments for lax but dont personally believe it should be banned rn. also DEG will be leading bw now
for dpp, i only built 1 team a week for mg this pl but it was not bad, and i think the meta is honestly good besides clef and jirachi both being super annoying and some other Stuff. the mechanics are still terrible though, and bc of that and some other LeBrokens i dont know if prepping for and playing bo5's of it will be better than sm2 or mg if there's discussion for readding dpp for wc (which there will be), but my gut says no because of how it was in the past but shrug
adv lives and dies with logan but tbh i hope it gets more tours that people care about because it still has its charm even if i think the meta is bad and zap/scep are pretty broken
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
After some deliberations, the SM Council has some announcements!
First, pqs and Freddy Kyogre have chosen to step down from their positions as council members. Thank you both for your contributions!
Second, Bopher has joined the team as its newest member! Congratulations!
Lastly, the collective council took a look into multiple of the hot button issues purveying both SM as well as the general 1v1 environment, being Dragonite, Mew, and Sleep-inducing moves, to which we voted upon whether or not to suspect each of these aspects, with the results being as follows:
Regarding Dragonite, it remains as divisive as it was at the time of its first suspect. With a plethora of sets that allow it to adjust matchups in a pinch while adding pressure to the preview, it remains a very prominent Pokemon that forces opponents to either run a handful of its consistent answers in order to reliably cover it, or otherwise running softer answers and hoping to predict sets in order to beat it. This is pretty clearly illustrated by the wide variety of Dragonite sets that saw usage throughout the duration of the recent Premier League.
Dragonite's raw stats alongside its excellent ability in Multiscale already makes it naturally a good preview pick in nearly every game of SM 1v1, and the ability to run as many differing sets as it has only adds to the pressure it puts on the metagame, where most if not all other prevalent Pokemon cannot emulate that same level of versatility while simultaneously retaining all the matchups you gain just from being Dragonite. It's for these reasons that Dragonite will be facing another suspect.
Mew is certainly the big trendy Pokemon in SM these days, being the only Pokemon with a wider variety of viable setups at its disposal than Dragonite, Greninja, and Victini. In comparison to Dragonite, though, Mew of course lacks the outstanding ability in Multiscale that makes Dragonite as overwhelmingly prominent as it is, which leaves it a lot more prone to getting OHKO'd or otherwise having to bend over backwards in order to bulk these normally lethal attacks, thus leading to much more notable opportunity cost between each possible set that Mew could run. While Mew may not be getting suspected for now, the general sentiment of the council when discussing it was that of caution: multiple council members noted that we should keep an eye on it for the future, especially in a potential Dragonite-less metagame.
When it came to approaching Sleep in SM, we considered two main options, between either looking into every Sleep-inducing move as ORAS did, or otherwise suspecting only the most visible abuser at the moment, being Mega Gengar. Overall, there wasn't really much support to tackle solely Mega Gengar, and as such, every Sleep-inducing move will be put on the chopping block, in the same way that ORAS 1v1 did their suspect. With recent discussions surrounding both SS and ORAS 1v1, as well as multiple games this Premier League showcasing how Sleep can influence games, there has been renewed interest in approaching Sleep, with the same divisions remaining between those who view all Sleep as problematic, those who view none as problematic, and those who only take issue with less accurate forms of Sleep.
Qualifications for the suspect are as follows:
If you have qualified and don't see your name here, please message me directly and I will double check and add you to the private smogon conversation for the suspect!
- Each suspect requires a 60+% supermajority Ban vote in order for each corresponding aspect to be banned
- Deadline is in a week or otherwise whenever an unbreakable majority has been reached for each vote
First, pqs and Freddy Kyogre have chosen to step down from their positions as council members. Thank you both for your contributions!
Second, Bopher has joined the team as its newest member! Congratulations!
Lastly, the collective council took a look into multiple of the hot button issues purveying both SM as well as the general 1v1 environment, being Dragonite, Mew, and Sleep-inducing moves, to which we voted upon whether or not to suspect each of these aspects, with the results being as follows:
| Rosa | TheShadowClaw | rumia | Squirtell 1v1 | Elo Bandit | Close | Bopher | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dragonite | Suspect | Do not suspect | Suspect | Suspect | Suspect | Do not suspect | Do not suspect |
| Mew | Abstain | Do not suspect | Do not suspect | Abstain | Do not suspect | Do not suspect | Suspect |
| Sleep | Suspect | Do not suspect | Suspect | Suspect | Suspect | Suspect | Suspect |
Code:
Dragonite: --- 4 Suspect | 3 Do not suspect
Mew: --------- 1 Suspect | 4 Do not suspect | 2 Abstain
Sleep: ------- 6 Suspect | 1 Do not suspecthttps://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1510290969
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1509666823
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1509838271
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514835691
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1515258027
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514501944-lc7iqspqbe3bcwlbq87iia4jb98owsgpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1509666823
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1509838271
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514835691
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1515258027
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1514501944-lc7iqspqbe3bcwlbq87iia4jb98owsgpw
Mew is certainly the big trendy Pokemon in SM these days, being the only Pokemon with a wider variety of viable setups at its disposal than Dragonite, Greninja, and Victini. In comparison to Dragonite, though, Mew of course lacks the outstanding ability in Multiscale that makes Dragonite as overwhelmingly prominent as it is, which leaves it a lot more prone to getting OHKO'd or otherwise having to bend over backwards in order to bulk these normally lethal attacks, thus leading to much more notable opportunity cost between each possible set that Mew could run. While Mew may not be getting suspected for now, the general sentiment of the council when discussing it was that of caution: multiple council members noted that we should keep an eye on it for the future, especially in a potential Dragonite-less metagame.
When it came to approaching Sleep in SM, we considered two main options, between either looking into every Sleep-inducing move as ORAS did, or otherwise suspecting only the most visible abuser at the moment, being Mega Gengar. Overall, there wasn't really much support to tackle solely Mega Gengar, and as such, every Sleep-inducing move will be put on the chopping block, in the same way that ORAS 1v1 did their suspect. With recent discussions surrounding both SS and ORAS 1v1, as well as multiple games this Premier League showcasing how Sleep can influence games, there has been renewed interest in approaching Sleep, with the same divisions remaining between those who view all Sleep as problematic, those who view none as problematic, and those who only take issue with less accurate forms of Sleep.
Qualifications for the suspect are as follows:
Code:
- SM Cup Semifinalists
- Played at least 3 games in WC V and got 2+ wins
- Played at least 3 games in PL VI and got 2+ wins
If you have qualified and don't see your name here, please message me directly and I will double check and add you to the private smogon conversation for the suspect!
- Each suspect requires a 60+% supermajority Ban vote in order for each corresponding aspect to be banned
- Deadline is in a week or otherwise whenever an unbreakable majority has been reached for each vote
Last edited:
how the fuck did u avoid the only broken mon
the people demanded action from council, unfortunately council decided on the wrong action
EDIT: also s/o bopher for having the only correct opinion
EDIT: also s/o bopher for having the only correct opinion
figured i'd write a short version of the anti dnite argument, vote ban plz
DNite has an insane combination of set diversity and raw power. It has SIX (6) distinct sets that are really powerful on their own (Phys Dragonium, Phys Flyinium, Special Dragonium, Special Flyinium, CB, Scarf), and together make true countering DNite a tall order.
a lot of people make the argument that the difference in threatlist between each set is very small (that is to say, each dnite set beats mostly the same thing). I don't necessarily disagree with this. There are a lot of important exceptions like physical dragonium beating mgyara, scarf beating fast shit, etc), but for the most part its true. however, I cannot overstate the importance of having viable sets on both sides of the physical/special spectrum. because dnite can hit both sides of the spectrum, a lot of matchups that would be 100% lost for DNite are turned into setguess checks. for example, altaria can lose to special dnite if you cotton guard t1, and lose to physical dnite if you confide t1.
bandits anti dnite paste does address some of the nuances to the checks (it mentions fake out losing to protect for example) but it does not address the insane amount of setguessing it would require to make those sets actually work as consistent counters. it also just is strictly incorrect sometimes like w/ zardX and dragonium. I believe it is disingenuous to suggest that dnite has so much counterplay you need a whole pokepaste to list it all, when in reality most of those "checks" are fake
DNite has an insane combination of set diversity and raw power. It has SIX (6) distinct sets that are really powerful on their own (Phys Dragonium, Phys Flyinium, Special Dragonium, Special Flyinium, CB, Scarf), and together make true countering DNite a tall order.
a lot of people make the argument that the difference in threatlist between each set is very small (that is to say, each dnite set beats mostly the same thing). I don't necessarily disagree with this. There are a lot of important exceptions like physical dragonium beating mgyara, scarf beating fast shit, etc), but for the most part its true. however, I cannot overstate the importance of having viable sets on both sides of the physical/special spectrum. because dnite can hit both sides of the spectrum, a lot of matchups that would be 100% lost for DNite are turned into setguess checks. for example, altaria can lose to special dnite if you cotton guard t1, and lose to physical dnite if you confide t1.
bandits anti dnite paste does address some of the nuances to the checks (it mentions fake out losing to protect for example) but it does not address the insane amount of setguessing it would require to make those sets actually work as consistent counters. it also just is strictly incorrect sometimes like w/ zardX and dragonium. I believe it is disingenuous to suggest that dnite has so much counterplay you need a whole pokepaste to list it all, when in reality most of those "checks" are fake
let's speak anyway:
(bolding mine)
Echoing this x1000. Each users of Spore/Sleep Powder has multiple and serious issues that prevent them from being overwhelming in SM 1v1. The very concept of sleeping the user is a massive risk for the player using it. There is a 1/3 that the opposing Pokémon wake up T1 (making your sleep user useless, especially if the opposing Pokémon has Taunt.) This is not without consequence on the building: from the building you're already risking some matchups. lemme actually give a example.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1429233736-fad21zlt7jfxuc6r6e3i8e2v8sf9bo9pw
This game is SM Cup finals, g4. I'm currently 2-1 in the series. Mubs brought a team with Kommo-o, Necrozma, and Vivillon. I brought a Mega Gyarados, along a Zeraora and a Volcarona. The Gyarados is looking very dangerous for Mubs, especially if I can beat Kommo-o with Outrage (it had it). Due to this, and however, best Gyarados check that Mubs had was Vivillon. The RNG doesn't not give to Mubs two or more turns of sleep on Gyarados, and I can beat it thanks to Taunt. The way I'm seeing it, Mubs kinda risked from the builder a lose to Gyarados.
And note, that I could have avoid all RNG. If I was truly believing that Mubs will go to Vivillon, I can then just go to Zeraora beating it without any RNG.
Every Spore/Sleep Powder user has some issues, including:
being beat by anything faster, p much. 1/3 chance of wake up.
Being under 100 base speed issue, weak to Taunt. This PL has seen 4 use of Vivillion. Guess what? I used all of them, and in the four game including it, it has never been picked.
has not been seen in a PL game of the entire season.
competition with the Stall set. Idt it don't beat too much things that the Stall don't beatNow, argument @ "we should ban them because they're uncompetitive anyway": I don't buy this argument. In my eyes, uncompetitive is essentially a way to ban things like OHKO moves, Evasion, which are abused to great success in the metagames where they're legal. On the contrary, no Spore/Sleep Powder user has been abused in SM 1v1 thought this PL, see my earlier point about its users.*
I'll also mention OU didn't banned quick claw in any generation despite its RNG nature, since... they are just not a issue. Speaking of this, I'll mention that SM 1v1 didn't banned Focus Sash/Bright Power/Other RNG items (and for a good reason: they're never being brought to tour game, where SM is played nowdays)
*Frankly it even debatable for Hypno. Gengar usage this PL:
| 47 | Gengar | 12 | 2.08% | 41.67% | and... its winrate is not very good.TLDR: Spore/Sleep Powder shouldn't be banned; its users aren't a issue because they're already kept in check. Thanks for reading me, and happy voting!
Your standards of “true counter” (always beating every possible set without ambiguity) don’t make sense to me in this context. Nothing really “true counters” anything else in SM 1v1, aside from a handful of 4x weaknesses. If you lock in both a moveset and a first move used in battle aiming for zero ambiguity, there will always be a way for an opponent who knows the set and move to find some form of counterplay. All you can ever do is play the arms race in builder and maximize your odds of winning specific matchups at the cost of others.
Dragonite only has a Special Attack stat of 100, which is just not great. It also has to rely on subpar accuracy after using its Z-Move. In many cases, Special Z-Move Dragonite will lose to a recovery move turn 1 if the opponent notices a weakness to physical checks like Charm MVenu, Coil Zygarde, or Counter Donphan on team preview. Special Dragonite, while viable due to its surprise factor, is decidedly underwhelming when the opponent sees it coming.
Anti-dnite paste mentioned - https://pokepast.es/343869cbecc0644a
Set reading is just gameplay. It’s not a bad thing. Having better metagame knowledge and understanding of cores makes you better at reading sets, which you can use on team preview to win more games. It’s a legitimate skill like any other expressed in 1v1. Calling it “set guessing” implies you have no way of determining the likelihood of each set appearing, which simply isn’t the case. There are many clues to take into account before and during the battle that will tip off well-versed players and give them the opportunity to assess both what is possible and what is probable from their opponent.
If a lure set (by no means limited to Dragonite) manages to grab a win at the cost of the team losing flat out to other things, GREAT! That means the player has correctly assessed what their opponent would bring and took advantage of their predictable team style. Pokemon capable of running lure sets are not banned for it.
The paste is pretty old and the whole community has had a chance to nitpick it. I’ll post a condensed version with improved sets (rather than defaulting to the analysis charx spread) when I have time.
I shared the pokepaste because I thought the community would benefit and use it as a tool for building. It was supposed to demonstrate that Dragonite has many different forms of counterplay, you can choose to beat all its sets with a dedicated counter or you can beat the vast majority with a “““fake check””” that I guess doesn’t count because it can get flinched or loses to alternate coverage that wasn’t popular when I made the paste.
There’s nothing disingenuous about listing counters on a Pokepaste. I would love to see anyone else attempt a list of “counters” for any Pokemon in SM, and realize how short that list ends up after intensive peer review. It turns out every Pokemon can run a lot of sets in SM, and expecting a long list of perfect unambiguous true counters is wishful thinking. We play an imperfect game with a wild variety of options, counterplay, and yes, set reading. Banning things that have “diversity and power” is the wrong way to go about maintaining this metagame, because those attributes are incredibly common in SM 1v1.
Dragonite: DO NOT BAN
Dragonite has not shown itself to be particularly overwhelming in tournament play. There are several good arguments for its viability, but nothing so far has indicated that Dragonite is actually broken in SM 1v1. The main argument against Dragonite revolves around it having more options than the average Pokemon, able to equip choice items and z-moves of varying viability. Like many z-move users in SM, Dragonite is able to tech specific checks with creative lure sets, while forfeiting matchups a standard Dragonite should win. This concept of opportunity cost applies as heavily to Dragonite as to any other versatile Pokemon. Wacky z-moves and utility options lose more matchups than they pick up, and non-standard Dragonites are often dead weight on a team. In the case where you actually load up the right off-meta Dragonite to lure a threat, it’s typically not hard to figure out that you’re not really 3-0’d by [Fairy][Ice][Steel][Dragon][Psychic][Normal][Grass] Types, and are most likely the moveset necessitated by Dragonite’s teammates. Either Dragonite’s lure set can be read based on what its team is otherwise losing to, or the team is actually losing to those things. Dragonite has a zillion possible sets and four good ones (DragonZ, FlyZ, Scarf, Band). If you cover the good ones, the rest of your team will naturally deal with its niche options, none of which are hard to figure out on team preview. Quick and easy guide - https://pokepast.es/09460d327711714a
a post depicting how sleep takes a matchup out of the player’s hands and leaves it determined by luck is not a defence for sleepfree giratina-o
let's speak anyway:
(bolding mine)
Echoing this x1000. Each users of Spore/Sleep Powder has multiple and serious issues that prevent them from being overwhelming in SM 1v1. The very concept of sleeping the user is a massive risk for the player using it. There is a 1/3 that the opposing Pokémon wake up T1 (making your sleep user useless, especially if the opposing Pokémon has Taunt.) This is not without consequence on the building: from the building you're already risking some matchups. lemme actually give a example.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1429233736-fad21zlt7jfxuc6r6e3i8e2v8sf9bo9pw
This game is SM Cup finals, g4. I'm currently 2-1 in the series. Mubs brought a team with Kommo-o, Necrozma, and Vivillon. I brought a Mega Gyarados, along a Zeraora and a Volcarona. The Gyarados is looking very dangerous for Mubs, especially if I can beat Kommo-o with Outrage (it had it). Due to this, and however, best Gyarados check that Mubs had was Vivillon. The RNG doesn't not give to Mubs two or more turns of sleep on Gyarados, and I can beat it thanks to Taunt. The way I'm seeing it, Mubs kinda risked from the builder a lose to Gyarados.
And note, that I could have avoid all RNG. If I was truly believing that Mubs will go to Vivillon, I can then just go to Zeraora beating it without any RNG.
Every Spore/Sleep Powder user has some issues, including:
Now, argument @ "we should ban them because they're uncompetitive anyway": I don't buy this argument. In my eyes, uncompetitive is essentially a way to ban things like OHKO moves, Evasion, which are abused to great success in the metagames where they're legal. On the contrary, no Spore/Sleep Powder user has been abused in SM 1v1 thought this PL, see my earlier point about its users.*
I'll also mention OU didn't banned quick claw in any generation despite its RNG nature, since... they are just not a issue. Speaking of this, I'll mention that SM 1v1 didn't banned Focus Sash/Bright Power/Other RNG items (and for a good reason: they're never being brought to tour game, where SM is played nowdays)
*Frankly it even debatable for Hypno. Gengar usage this PL:| 47 | Gengar | 12 | 2.08% | 41.67% |and... its winrate is not very good.
TLDR: Spore/Sleep Powder shouldn't be banned; its users aren't a issue because they're already kept in check. Thanks for reading me, and happy voting!
sleep’s unreliability is not what keeps it balanced, it is why it is uncompetitive by nature
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
Figured I might as well post my thoughts from discussing among council:
Expanding on these thoughts:
While at first I did view Dragonite as more of a personal preference kind of suspect (hence why I only started to hate it after having to prep against Bopher building), reviewing SM replays to make the initial suspect post showed to me that Dragonite's just kinda dumb to deal with as a whole; nearly every SM team in the entire PL season is 2-1'd by most regular Dragonite sets, with many of the "1"s in those 2-1s often having to rely on things like Dragonite not being Flyinium or Scarf or Band or etc, or otherwise having to win 50/50s between reading Dragon Dance vs attacking immediately. And this is all still without factoring in lesser used aspects of Dragonite, such as non-stab Z-moves or moves like Protect and Substitute that all flip some otherwise losing matchups in Dragonite's favor. To put it simply, I do not believe that any Pokemon that forces the vast majority of teams into an uncomfortable picking situation should be allowed to persist in what is meant to be a healthy metagame.
Mew is a tricky one to deal with; it's definitely a great mon by proxy of its extremely wide movepool paired with excellent stats that enable it to do whatever it pleases, but like I said in the suspect post, it doesn't really carry the same kind of preview presence that Dragonite does, which gets further amplified by how not every Mew set really retains as much of the core matchups that you get just from being Mew in the same way that most Dragonite sets do just from being Dragonite. In that regard, I feel a lot of the discourse I see regarding Mew (other than just people calling it "broken" with nothing else backing it up) often exaggerates what certain Mew sets are really capable of. That said, though, I do think Z-Transform Mew could potentially act as a factor that pushes Mew over the edge, in a similar way to how Choice Scarf on Dragonite did for many people back around the time of its first suspect. Like I said, I don't quite think it's at a point of being problematic to deal with just yet, but it very well could get there, especially if Dragonite ends up getting the boot.
Sleep is dumb- While I can understand the sentiment behind not wanting to act on "reliable" sleepers that often instantly win games against slower opponents so long as they can get 1 move off from behind a sub, it becomes a lot blurrier when factoring in matchups like Vivillon vs bulky Charizard or the capability of Jumpluff landing a Protect vs an opponent's Taunt on the turn they wake up (which is even more RNG given the possibility of fishing for a double tect). While I could go on and on about the different facets of Uncompetitiveness and how multiple of them apply in different ways regarding "reliable" and "unreliable" Sleep, it is ultimately a matter of considerable nuance that can't really be explained without everyone having an understanding of the what the differing Sleep users do (both prominent and otherwise), as well as how differing opponents to Sleepers can influence the outcome of the game, so that people can come to an informed conclusion about whether or not their contributions to the metagame are more positive than negative.
Dragonite itself is kinda falling off over time as it pertains to the broader metagame. I don't think it's ever been as prominent as it was at the time of its suspect, though it ofc is still very good. That said, prepping for SM this PL against builders like bopher who actually use this thing to its full potential is honestly a nightmare, and it only gets amplified when partnered with things like mew and victini- With that said, I'm not sure if the meta is at a place where it makes sense to ban dnite, though I for one would not mind if it were gone, and thus would support the idea of a suspect (Suspect).
Mew is in a very weird place in its development- It has many wildly differing sets that do wildly different things, but at the same time none of those sets are necessarily S tier quality on their own. I wanna say it's not particularly silly just yet, but has the resources to get there over time. I would be especially curious to see how it develops if dnite were to get banned. Overall I wouldn't wanna push any action just yet, though if there's a major wave of support from the general playerbase for a suspect, I would not be opposed (Abstain).
Sleep is dumb. I've been saying it for years and I'll say it again now. I also hate the argument of restricting only lower accuracy sleep, since that's literally just punishing something for being worse at doing literally the same thing as a more accurate counterpart; it completely misses the point that the sleeping itself and its inconsistency is what's uncompetitive, rather than the actual %, since banning by % is the neanderthal argument that the pro-sleep side sarcastically uses in reference to things like ice beam freezes or dark pulse/waterfall flinches or serene grace flinchers as supporting evidence of why not to ban sleep. That said, I would lean towards going the ORAS approach. While Mega Gengar is definitely the elephant in the room, I'd prefer that we don't enable people to just move onto shit like Brightpowder Grasswhistle Whimsicott or Hypno Gardevoir/Mew or Sing Melo/Prima or even just regular Gengar or w/e else (Suspect. ORAS approach > Mega Gengar).
Mew is in a very weird place in its development- It has many wildly differing sets that do wildly different things, but at the same time none of those sets are necessarily S tier quality on their own. I wanna say it's not particularly silly just yet, but has the resources to get there over time. I would be especially curious to see how it develops if dnite were to get banned. Overall I wouldn't wanna push any action just yet, though if there's a major wave of support from the general playerbase for a suspect, I would not be opposed (Abstain).
Sleep is dumb. I've been saying it for years and I'll say it again now. I also hate the argument of restricting only lower accuracy sleep, since that's literally just punishing something for being worse at doing literally the same thing as a more accurate counterpart; it completely misses the point that the sleeping itself and its inconsistency is what's uncompetitive, rather than the actual %, since banning by % is the neanderthal argument that the pro-sleep side sarcastically uses in reference to things like ice beam freezes or dark pulse/waterfall flinches or serene grace flinchers as supporting evidence of why not to ban sleep. That said, I would lean towards going the ORAS approach. While Mega Gengar is definitely the elephant in the room, I'd prefer that we don't enable people to just move onto shit like Brightpowder Grasswhistle Whimsicott or Hypno Gardevoir/Mew or Sing Melo/Prima or even just regular Gengar or w/e else (Suspect. ORAS approach > Mega Gengar).
Expanding on these thoughts:
While at first I did view Dragonite as more of a personal preference kind of suspect (hence why I only started to hate it after having to prep against Bopher building), reviewing SM replays to make the initial suspect post showed to me that Dragonite's just kinda dumb to deal with as a whole; nearly every SM team in the entire PL season is 2-1'd by most regular Dragonite sets, with many of the "1"s in those 2-1s often having to rely on things like Dragonite not being Flyinium or Scarf or Band or etc, or otherwise having to win 50/50s between reading Dragon Dance vs attacking immediately. And this is all still without factoring in lesser used aspects of Dragonite, such as non-stab Z-moves or moves like Protect and Substitute that all flip some otherwise losing matchups in Dragonite's favor. To put it simply, I do not believe that any Pokemon that forces the vast majority of teams into an uncomfortable picking situation should be allowed to persist in what is meant to be a healthy metagame.
Mew is a tricky one to deal with; it's definitely a great mon by proxy of its extremely wide movepool paired with excellent stats that enable it to do whatever it pleases, but like I said in the suspect post, it doesn't really carry the same kind of preview presence that Dragonite does, which gets further amplified by how not every Mew set really retains as much of the core matchups that you get just from being Mew in the same way that most Dragonite sets do just from being Dragonite. In that regard, I feel a lot of the discourse I see regarding Mew (other than just people calling it "broken" with nothing else backing it up) often exaggerates what certain Mew sets are really capable of. That said, though, I do think Z-Transform Mew could potentially act as a factor that pushes Mew over the edge, in a similar way to how Choice Scarf on Dragonite did for many people back around the time of its first suspect. Like I said, I don't quite think it's at a point of being problematic to deal with just yet, but it very well could get there, especially if Dragonite ends up getting the boot.
Sleep is dumb- While I can understand the sentiment behind not wanting to act on "reliable" sleepers that often instantly win games against slower opponents so long as they can get 1 move off from behind a sub, it becomes a lot blurrier when factoring in matchups like Vivillon vs bulky Charizard or the capability of Jumpluff landing a Protect vs an opponent's Taunt on the turn they wake up (which is even more RNG given the possibility of fishing for a double tect). While I could go on and on about the different facets of Uncompetitiveness and how multiple of them apply in different ways regarding "reliable" and "unreliable" Sleep, it is ultimately a matter of considerable nuance that can't really be explained without everyone having an understanding of the what the differing Sleep users do (both prominent and otherwise), as well as how differing opponents to Sleepers can influence the outcome of the game, so that people can come to an informed conclusion about whether or not their contributions to the metagame are more positive than negative.
Imagine playing SM :joy:
BW VR Rework is here + expect ORAS Vr rework soon + Sample updates for BW/ORAS so if you have some teams you want to submit as sample feel free + BW/ORAS Survey results.
BW VR Rework is here + expect ORAS Vr rework soon + Sample updates for BW/ORAS so if you have some teams you want to submit as sample feel free + BW/ORAS Survey results.
S
Keldeo
S-
Latios
Volcarona
A+
Cresselia
Genesect
Snorlax
A
Crustle
Conkeldurr
Haxorus
Manaphy
Metagross
Suicune
Thundurus
Tyranitar
A-
Garchomp
Landorus-Therian
Magnezone
Meloetta
Raikou
Sableye
Sawk
Scrafty
Shaymin
Zapdos
B+
Aerodactyl
Arcanine
Chandelure
Donphan
Heatran
Jellicent
Jumpluff
Latias
Registeel
Rhyperior
Serperior
Slaking
Porygon-Z
B
Archeops
Chansey
Breloom
Celebi
Ferrothorn
Gyarados
Hariyama
Heracross
Hydreigon
Infernape
Kyurem
Rotom-Wash
Slowbro
Swampert
Terrakion
Thundurus-Therian
Tornadus
Tornadus-Therian
B-
Alakazam
Ambipom
Durant
Empoleon
Gengar
Mamoswine
Mienshao
Roserade
Rotom-Heat
Salamence
Sceptile
Scizor
Porygon2
Starmie
C+
Blissey
Carracosta
Entei
Excadrill
Gastrodon
Hippowdon
Landorus
Medicham
Moltres
Reuniclus
Venusaur
C
Bronzong
Cacturne
Cinccino
Cofagrigus
Darmanitan
Dusclops
Exeggutor
Gallade
Hitmonlee
Kingdra
Riolu
Smeargle
Staraptor
Torterra
Umbreon
Virizion
C-
Azumarill
Cobalion
Escavalier
Galvantula
Krookodile
Miltank
Quagsire
D
Aron
Murkrow
Politoed
KeldeoS-
Latios VolcaronaA+
Cresselia Genesect SnorlaxA
Crustle Conkeldurr Haxorus Manaphy Metagross Suicune Thundurus TyranitarA-
Garchomp Landorus-Therian Magnezone Meloetta Raikou Sableye Sawk Scrafty Shaymin ZapdosB+
Aerodactyl Arcanine Chandelure Donphan Heatran Jellicent Jumpluff Latias Registeel Rhyperior Serperior Slaking Porygon-ZB
Archeops Chansey Breloom Celebi Ferrothorn Gyarados Hariyama Heracross Hydreigon Infernape Kyurem Rotom-Wash Slowbro Swampert Terrakion Thundurus-Therian Tornadus Tornadus-TherianB-
Alakazam Ambipom Durant Empoleon Gengar Mamoswine Mienshao Roserade Rotom-Heat Salamence Sceptile Scizor Porygon2 StarmieC+
Blissey Carracosta Entei Excadrill Gastrodon Hippowdon Landorus Medicham Moltres Reuniclus VenusaurC
Bronzong Cacturne Cinccino Cofagrigus Darmanitan Dusclops Exeggutor Gallade Hitmonlee Kingdra Riolu Smeargle Staraptor Torterra Umbreon VirizionC-
Azumarill Cobalion Escavalier Galvantula Krookodile Miltank QuagsireD
Aron Murkrow Politoed
when the new vr drops and its 11 PM and I'm technically on vacation and I have problems with stuff...
let's begin.
Having this thing anywhere below A- is just unthinkable to me. Jellicent has terrific matchups against so many of the top mons. Trick Scarf and Wisp Taunt are both really good sets and the fact that it isn't ranked higher is honestly unfathomable. It has winning matchups against 4 of the A+ or higher ranked Pokemon on the VR at the moment and can beat most sets of 5/8 of the Pokemon ranked in A. I really think that the VR has Jellicent much too low. Nomming Jellicent to A-.
Entei has a lot of sets. Fire Gem is a set. Band is a set. There's good stall sets. Why this Pokemon is ranked below Sceptile, Scizor, Gengar, and Alakazam I do not and probably will never know. Nomming to B.
Offensive Venusaur without sleep is honestly pretty underrated. Stuff like custap is good. I have the same issues with this tiering that I do with the Entei pretty much. I honestly think it should be in the same tier as Roserade at least. Nomming to B+.
I'm tired I'll work more noms in tomorrow but please one last thing...
cool mon, has infinite weather due to BW which is cool... likes not taking double damage from water type moves... can't do what it does in SS due to not having encore, but Bulky Choice Scarf sets are pretty cool.
Okay I am exhausted and will sleep now gn, will edit this if I feel like it tomorrow to have more noms and stuff...
let's begin.
Having this thing anywhere below A- is just unthinkable to me. Jellicent has terrific matchups against so many of the top mons. Trick Scarf and Wisp Taunt are both really good sets and the fact that it isn't ranked higher is honestly unfathomable. It has winning matchups against 4 of the A+ or higher ranked Pokemon on the VR at the moment and can beat most sets of 5/8 of the Pokemon ranked in A. I really think that the VR has Jellicent much too low. Nomming Jellicent to A-. Entei has a lot of sets. Fire Gem is a set. Band is a set. There's good stall sets. Why this Pokemon is ranked below Sceptile, Scizor, Gengar, and Alakazam I do not and probably will never know. Nomming to B. Offensive Venusaur without sleep is honestly pretty underrated. Stuff like custap is good. I have the same issues with this tiering that I do with the Entei pretty much. I honestly think it should be in the same tier as Roserade at least. Nomming to B+.I'm tired I'll work more noms in tomorrow but please one last thing...
cool mon, has infinite weather due to BW which is cool... likes not taking double damage from water type moves... can't do what it does in SS due to not having encore, but Bulky Choice Scarf sets are pretty cool. Okay I am exhausted and will sleep now gn, will edit this if I feel like it tomorrow to have more noms and stuff...
LeOfficial ORAS VR Update Post PL:
S -> S+
S- -> S
B+ -> S-
A- -> A
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
B- -> B
C+ -> B
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C- -> C
D -> C-
S- -> A+
S- -> A+
A -> A-
A -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B -> B-
unmons below
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C+ -> C
C- -> D
C- -> D
C- -> D
D -> UR DezShizzels
D -> UR LRXC
S -> S+ S- -> S B+ -> S- A- -> A B -> B+ B -> B+ B- -> B B- -> B C+ -> B C+ -> B- C+ -> B- C- -> C D -> C- S- -> A+ S- -> A+ A -> A- A -> A- A- -> B+ B+ -> B B -> B-unmons below
B- -> C+ C+ -> C C+ -> C C+ -> C C- -> D C- -> D C- -> D D -> UR DezShizzels D -> UR LRXC
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Attention people who constantly hate on ADV but simultaneously clamor for the samples update (its okay you can like ADV), they have finally arrived.
A lot has happened since ADV Duo Swiss, and the RoA Spotlight tournament, as well as the so called ADV Cult somewhat hard at work (college moment)
THE NEW SAMPLES
Sombrero Underground by Urfgurgle
Fargo's Pizza by SuperMemeBroz
Little Pogchamps by LRXC and Opchurtle100 (Hungryfoodies)
fraun team by fruan
Coming soon we will have a new sets compendium WITH a spreadsheet for descriptions!
I will also be archiving the old samples in a collective paste on the main posts!
Also will take this time to announce crucify has decided to leave the council, very appreciate of his services, did a great job grounding the council when I get distracted with unmons like Wailord
ADV ain't dead
A lot has happened since ADV Duo Swiss, and the RoA Spotlight tournament, as well as the so called ADV Cult somewhat hard at work (college moment)
THE NEW SAMPLES
Sombrero Underground by Urfgurgle
Fargo's Pizza by SuperMemeBroz
Little Pogchamps by LRXC and Opchurtle100 (Hungryfoodies)
fraun team by fruan
Coming soon we will have a new sets compendium WITH a spreadsheet for descriptions!
I will also be archiving the old samples in a collective paste on the main posts!
Also will take this time to announce crucify has decided to leave the council, very appreciate of his services, did a great job grounding the council when I get distracted with unmons like Wailord
ADV ain't dead
A call to action- Mew in SM 1v1
Mew has infinite options in this tier while having really strong options that blanket check mon archetypes. Mewnium Z turns psychic into a 185 bp stab move that destroys frail attackers with the combo of fake out for sturdy as well as setup moves to break bulkier threats + boltbeam or overheat as required coverage for your team. A screens of your choice + taunt beating anything slower than you due to really nice natural stats and typing is a fantastic option, and you can use Z-boosted screens to give yourself extra defense or special defense as needed which is important to beat a specific mon I'll talk about shortly. Last main set I want to mention before moving on to the obscure stuff is Z-Transform, a super janky set on paper that in practise ends up stat checking half of the tier minimum with many many options you can run based on what you need.
Why Z-Transform is broken:
The idea of this set is you status your opponent or set up screens with your Mew (screens should be slashed here tbh there's like 50 viable move options) and then proceed to heal to full and turn into them, stat checking them with their own pokemon. A normal z-transform Mew can beat pokemon like Gyarados with ease, any faster attacker also folds due to twave slowing them down + a move like stoss to break things like Dnite's multiscale. Due to your high base speed, you can also outspeed a large majority of things in the tier turn 1 with taunt to avoid them clicking substitute on your future transform. This set catches a huge amount of mons but you're still susceptible to a lot of faster mons that threaten KOs with multiple hits, like Zera, or slower with one strong hit, like Incin. How about z-screens?
This was the z-reflect set I liked the most:
Mew @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 12 SpD / 56 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Reflect
- Seismic Toss
- Roost
And this spread is still viable because you can run enough leftover speed to easily outpace ada Gyara (I evd for Smeargle) and win that mu for free too. You can do similar stuff with Z-Light Screen to finesse stuff like Gardevoir (it can't encore you into the z move) but transform will usually win that mu regardless, though sub can give you some headaches.
Teching Greninja with ease:
Mew @ Electrium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt / Magnet Rise
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Seismic Toss
Slashing magnet rise on this set is a complete meme but z-magnet rise actually boosts your evasion by one stage, so in theory if you luck out its an option which can beat literally anything that tries to attack you with a damaging move. Quite competitive
late edit: I completely forgot that Z-transform Mew bulked for specs Greninja wins too, you just ev to tank dark pulse and then Z move into KOing them back with grass knot. Another pro to using that set
Zera, ZardX and steels that wall the Mewnium set:
Mew @ Groundium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Set I used a couple of times this PL, beats a lot of random stuff but you use it to lure Zera and ZardX (if you want a more reliable Zard Y answer just run life orb)
Oh yeah, here's life orb:
Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 96 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Leech Life / Fire Move / Taunt / Wisp / Sub / Superpower / Gunk Shot
And you have a free moveslot to run anything you desire. You actually don't beat sub Prim with these evs but gunk is still going to 2shot a Fini with ease
The rest of the mew counters I haven't mentioned:
Conversion PZ: Fight-z or some band set with superpower
Stally stuff: You have toxic and taunt plus access to any recovery you want as well as spite
Genesect: You're faster and have fire coverage
Hoopa: Leech life on LO, can run CB for more coverage if you want
Serperior: Scarf trick (unset), flame charge + offensive sets win (very good set), Serp also lost to a poison-z Mew this PL
Volcarona: Speed tie that guy and use the life orb set to KO it
Ambipom: Kee Mew baby
Gengar: Hypno is getting banned dw bout it
The only mew counter that didn't take me literally 5 seconds to figure out a counter for is Aegislash, but to be honest you can probably 50/50 that thing with some combo of sub taunt and groundium. So we have 3 catch all counters (I'll include volcarona and gren because LO is super underused and gren losing to mew is a meme, if you want to always beat it you can run some sub taunt variant) on preview lets go! But surely you can just predict the set right?
Pairing Mew with any mon that has an ambiguous set causes previews to become insane headaches
Assuming normal sets, The Mew looks offensive to deal with annoying stuff like Venusaur to this team. Fini is probably the zard check, and therefore this Zard is probably X belly drum to check stuff like Slowbro as well as not instantly lose to Zeraora.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529398358
The Mew was actually Bulk up EQ sucker punch, a workable Zard check as well as beating Rhyp, Z crystal wasn't revealed but it must have been some random coverage. Zard was probably Y in that case but there's no way to discern this Mew was bulk up based off the preview.
Not a single set here is truly guessable, and that's why I love this team. I used two versions of it in my finals series with Specs hp electric Gren being my Gyara answer this game and forgetting to bring a Gyara answer g2 because I switched to torrent Gren after the g1 matchup (joy). Zard and Dnite check can pretty much be any of these 3 mons. Its seriously impossible to setguess this team and I could RNG the sets every preview and still have a decent advantage provided I made sure I counter the relevant meta threats. I ended up clicking my Z-reflect Mew this game and winning vs the Mawile. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1559566647-zhqes8jgv3b0m69qmcyxghhnboj8ep0pw
TL;DR After building the tier all of PL, it feels like these insane previews are caused far more often by Mew than any other pokemon, it enables the hell out of Dnite in a very obnoxious way while being insanely solid by itself. I think ZardX as an individual mon is stronger than Mew, but Mew's unpredictable nature and sheer access to options push it over the edge. I would love to ban this thing and I hope my manifesto can convince some of you to feel the same. Building and playing against this thing is seriously a nightmare.
Mew has infinite options in this tier while having really strong options that blanket check mon archetypes. Mewnium Z turns psychic into a 185 bp stab move that destroys frail attackers with the combo of fake out for sturdy as well as setup moves to break bulkier threats + boltbeam or overheat as required coverage for your team. A screens of your choice + taunt beating anything slower than you due to really nice natural stats and typing is a fantastic option, and you can use Z-boosted screens to give yourself extra defense or special defense as needed which is important to beat a specific mon I'll talk about shortly. Last main set I want to mention before moving on to the obscure stuff is Z-Transform, a super janky set on paper that in practise ends up stat checking half of the tier minimum with many many options you can run based on what you need.
Why Z-Transform is broken:
The idea of this set is you status your opponent or set up screens with your Mew (screens should be slashed here tbh there's like 50 viable move options) and then proceed to heal to full and turn into them, stat checking them with their own pokemon. A normal z-transform Mew can beat pokemon like Gyarados with ease, any faster attacker also folds due to twave slowing them down + a move like stoss to break things like Dnite's multiscale. Due to your high base speed, you can also outspeed a large majority of things in the tier turn 1 with taunt to avoid them clicking substitute on your future transform. This set catches a huge amount of mons but you're still susceptible to a lot of faster mons that threaten KOs with multiple hits, like Zera, or slower with one strong hit, like Incin. How about z-screens?
This was the z-reflect set I liked the most:
Mew @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 12 SpD / 56 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Reflect
- Seismic Toss
- Roost
48+ Atk Incineroar Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Mew: 32-38 (7.9 - 9.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
48+ Atk Incineroar Malicious Moonsault vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Mew through Reflect: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
48+ Atk Incineroar Darkest Lariat vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Mew through Reflect: 99-117 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO
This bulk lets mew z-reflect, then get stosses and roosts off for the win or taunt as needed
48+ Atk Incineroar Malicious Moonsault vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Mew through Reflect: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
48+ Atk Incineroar Darkest Lariat vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Mew through Reflect: 99-117 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO
This bulk lets mew z-reflect, then get stosses and roosts off for the win or taunt as needed
Teching Greninja with ease:
Mew @ Electrium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt / Magnet Rise
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Seismic Toss
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 188+ SpD Mew: 254-300 (63 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. +1 248 HP / 188+ SpD Mew: 168-200 (41.6 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Never letting timid specs do more than your roost can heal, so you can eventually have enough hp to stoss it down
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. +1 248 HP / 188+ SpD Mew: 168-200 (41.6 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Never letting timid specs do more than your roost can heal, so you can eventually have enough hp to stoss it down
late edit: I completely forgot that Z-transform Mew bulked for specs Greninja wins too, you just ev to tank dark pulse and then Z move into KOing them back with grass knot. Another pro to using that set
Zera, ZardX and steels that wall the Mewnium set:
Mew @ Groundium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Set I used a couple of times this PL, beats a lot of random stuff but you use it to lure Zera and ZardX (if you want a more reliable Zard Y answer just run life orb)
Oh yeah, here's life orb:
Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 96 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Leech Life / Fire Move / Taunt / Wisp / Sub / Superpower / Gunk Shot
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Outrage vs. 4 HP / 96 Def Mew: 231-273 (67.5 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
156 Atk Life Orb Mew Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 40-48 (11.1 - 13.3%) -- possible 8HKO
156 Atk Life Orb Mew Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 120-143 (33.3 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
156 Atk Life Orb Mew Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 200-237 (55.5 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
40 + 120 + 200 = 360, the exact amount of HP ZardX has with these evs. You can min-roll 3 times in a row and still always KO a normal bulky Zard
156 Atk Life Orb Mew Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 40-48 (11.1 - 13.3%) -- possible 8HKO
156 Atk Life Orb Mew Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 120-143 (33.3 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
156 Atk Life Orb Mew Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 200-237 (55.5 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
40 + 120 + 200 = 360, the exact amount of HP ZardX has with these evs. You can min-roll 3 times in a row and still always KO a normal bulky Zard
The rest of the mew counters I haven't mentioned:
Conversion PZ: Fight-z or some band set with superpower
Stally stuff: You have toxic and taunt plus access to any recovery you want as well as spite
Genesect: You're faster and have fire coverage
Hoopa: Leech life on LO, can run CB for more coverage if you want
Serperior: Scarf trick (unset), flame charge + offensive sets win (very good set), Serp also lost to a poison-z Mew this PL
Volcarona: Speed tie that guy and use the life orb set to KO it
Ambipom: Kee Mew baby
Gengar: Hypno is getting banned dw bout it
The only mew counter that didn't take me literally 5 seconds to figure out a counter for is Aegislash, but to be honest you can probably 50/50 that thing with some combo of sub taunt and groundium. So we have 3 catch all counters (I'll include volcarona and gren because LO is super underused and gren losing to mew is a meme, if you want to always beat it you can run some sub taunt variant) on preview lets go! But surely you can just predict the set right?
Pairing Mew with any mon that has an ambiguous set causes previews to become insane headaches
Assuming normal sets, The Mew looks offensive to deal with annoying stuff like Venusaur to this team. Fini is probably the zard check, and therefore this Zard is probably X belly drum to check stuff like Slowbro as well as not instantly lose to Zeraora.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1529398358
The Mew was actually Bulk up EQ sucker punch, a workable Zard check as well as beating Rhyp, Z crystal wasn't revealed but it must have been some random coverage. Zard was probably Y in that case but there's no way to discern this Mew was bulk up based off the preview.
Not a single set here is truly guessable, and that's why I love this team. I used two versions of it in my finals series with Specs hp electric Gren being my Gyara answer this game and forgetting to bring a Gyara answer g2 because I switched to torrent Gren after the g1 matchup (joy). Zard and Dnite check can pretty much be any of these 3 mons. Its seriously impossible to setguess this team and I could RNG the sets every preview and still have a decent advantage provided I made sure I counter the relevant meta threats. I ended up clicking my Z-reflect Mew this game and winning vs the Mawile. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-1559566647-zhqes8jgv3b0m69qmcyxghhnboj8ep0pw
TL;DR After building the tier all of PL, it feels like these insane previews are caused far more often by Mew than any other pokemon, it enables the hell out of Dnite in a very obnoxious way while being insanely solid by itself. I think ZardX as an individual mon is stronger than Mew, but Mew's unpredictable nature and sheer access to options push it over the edge. I would love to ban this thing and I hope my manifesto can convince some of you to feel the same. Building and playing against this thing is seriously a nightmare.
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Checked out the ADV set compendium, a few of the sets could be optimized a bit further @ ADV CouncilADV 1v1Ruleset: Obtainable, Species Clause, Nickname Clause, Moody Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Accuracy Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Team Preview
Bans: Slaking, Clefable, Deoxys, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Mew, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Snorlax, Suicune, Wobbuffet, Wynaut, Flash, Ingrain, Kinesis, Mud-Slap, Muddy Water, Octazooka, Perish Song, Sand Attack, Smokescreen, Destiny Bond, Explosion, Self Destruct, Sleep Powder, Spore, Hypnosis, Yawn, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Grass Whistle, Kings Rock, Brightpowder, Lax Incense, Quick Claw, Focus Band
Key Mechanics:
- There is no physical special split. All moves are either physical or special dependent on their type. Including hidden power, which can be physical or special. Best way to remember, All of the current Eevolutions+Dragon is Special, everything else is Physical!
- Choice Scarf and Choice Specs do not exist in this gen.
- Sitrus Berry only heals 30 HP total and berries like Aguav only heal 1/8th (12.5%) of the Pokemon's health. (do not use)
- Taunt only lasts 2 turns and Mental Herb doesn't heal from Taunt
- GENGAR HAS LEVITATE
- Hidden Power's are considered Physical when calculating Counter, so you cannot Mirror Coat any Hidden Powers, but can Counter all of them
- Trace does not Trace Intimidate and then lower Attack
- Sound moves do not go through Substitute
This rule is only to be enforced inside of Room Tournaments
When two players find themselves in a match that would end up going to turn 1000 (happens if both players run out of PP and both Struggles do 6% damage or less), the game is to be coinflipped with the use of the command !pick
Council: LRXC, pqs, Urfgurgle, Murman , Adam3560
S Rank
S- Rank
A+ Rank
Marowak
A Rank
Regice
A- Rank
Charizard
Ursaring
Tauros
Vaporeon
B+ Rank
Blastoise
Houndoom
Machamp
B Rank
Walrein
Jirachi
B- Rank
Blaziken
C+ Rank
Kecleon
Lunatone
Milotic
Dodrio
C rank
Flygon
Typhlosion
Grumpig
Jolteon
Shedinja
Meganium
Skarmory
C- Rank
Illumise
Kangaskhan
Hypno
Scyther
Poliwrath
Jynx
Togetic
Rhydon
Crobat
^LOOK HERE ^
86: 0 Dusclops
116 0 Kecleon, Rhydon
126: 0 Marowak
136: 0 Regice / Registeel / Hariyama
140: 0- Swampert
142: 0- Tyranitar
146: 0 Blissey
156: 0 Swampert / Porygon2
157 0 -1 Miltank
158: 0 Tyranitar
166: 0 Walrein / Vaporeon / Scizor
170: 0 Hypno
176: 0 Metagross / Ludicolo / Breloom / Poliwrath / Lunatone
192: 0 Blastoise
196: 0 Blaziken / Medicham / Venusaur / Dragonite / Grumpig
198: 0 Gyarados / Milotic
206: 0 Heracross
216: 0 Moltres
219: 252 Swampert
221: 252 Tyranitar
226: 0 Houndoom / Arcanine / Sharpedo / Jynx
229: 252 Vaporeon / Scizor
236: 0 Zapdos / Celebi / Jirachi / Salamence / Flygon / Entei / Miltank / Linoone
237 0 +1 Tyranitar
239: 252 Metagross / Breloom
240: 252+ Swampert
243: 252+ Tyranitar
256: 0 Gengar / Tauros
259: 252 Blaziken / Medicham / Venusaur / Dragonite / Grumpig
261: 252 Gyarados / Milotic
262: 252+ Metagross / Breloom
266: 0 Raikou / Starmie
269: 252 Heracross
276: 0 Alakazam
279: 252 Moltres
284: 252+ Blaziken / Medicham / Venusaur
287: 252+ Gyarados / Milotic
289: 252 Houndoom / Arcanine / Jynx / Sharpedo
295: 252+ Heracross
299: 252 Zapdos / Celebi / Jirachi / Salamence / Flygon / Entei / Charizard / Typhlosion / Dodrio / Raichu
306: 252+ Moltres
317: 252+ Houndoom / Arcanine / Jynx / Sharpedo
319: 252 Gengar / Tauros / Jumpluff
328: 252+ Zapdos / Celebi / Jirachi / Salamence / Flygon / Entei / Charizard / Typhlosion / Dodrio / Raichu
329: 252 Raikou / Starmie
331 252 +1 Tyranitar
339: 252 Alakazam / Sceptile
350: 252+ Gengar / Tauros / Jumpluff
352 0 Swift Swim Ludicolo / 0 Chlorophyl Victreebel
354 0 +1 Salamence
359: 252 Aerodactyl / Jolteon
360 252+ +1 Swampert
361: 252+ Raikou / Starmie
364 252+ +1 Tyranitar
372: 252+ Alakazam / Sceptile
383: 252+ Swellow
388: 252 +1 Blaziken
391 252 +1 Gyarados
392 0 +2 Dragonite
394: 252+ Aerodactyl / Jolteon
403: 252 +1 Heracross
426: 252+ +1 Blaziken
430 252+ +1 Gyarados
433: 252 +1 Houndoom / Sharpedo
442: 252+ +1 Heracross
448 252 +1 Salamence
460: 252+ Ninjask
492 252+ +1 Salamence
656 252+ +2 Dodrio
744 252+ +2 Sceptile
Sample teams:
Sombrero Underground by Urfgurgle
Fargo's Pizza by SuperMemeBroz
Little Pogchamps by LRXC and Opchurtle100 (Hungryfoodies)
fraun team by fruan
Old Set:
Full Pressure (Raikou) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 192 HP / 36 Def / 28 SpA / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Thunderbolt / Toxic
- Rest
New one:
Full Pressure (Raikou) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 192 HP / 112 Def / 68 SpA / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Thunderbolt / Toxic
- Rest
This gives the same defense and 1 more speed than before, but 40 more evs to spare. I dumped them all into spa, but the ADV ppl can maybe figure out a better use for them, if one exists
Old Set:
Mixed Salac (Tyranitar) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 192 Atk / 64 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Endure
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Aerial Ace
broooooo wtf is this lmfaoooooo
New Set:
Mixed Salac (Tyranitar) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Endure
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Aerial Ace
Same Attack and SpDef, with 32 EVs to spare - I dumped them all into special attack, after asking around. But if Attack or bulk is better, then just switch it up.
Old set:
Barrier (Alakazam) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 52 HP / 244 Def / 212 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Barrier
- Recover
- Encore
- Seismic Toss
New Set:
Barrier (Alakazam) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Barrier
- Recover
- Encore
- Seismic Toss
Same speed, but just wayyyy more bulk in general.
I don't know what the old set was eved for, but it doesn't really matter, i think
252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaring Hyper Beam vs. 52 HP / 244+ Def Alakazam: 464-547 (175.7 - 207.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaring Hyper Beam vs. 160 HP / 252 Def Alakazam: 504-594 (173.1 - 204.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If you want more speed and the same amount of bulk, you can instead run 144 HP / 252 Def for the same amount of bulk as the old set, but 16 free evs, but that only boosts speed from 330 to 334, so unless we're up against Gen 3 Garchomp, more bulk in general is fine.
Old Set:
Counter Regice (Regice) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Def / 136 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Counter
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
New Set:
Counter Regice (Regice) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 64 HP / 144 Def / 244 SpA / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Counter
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
Same def, one more Spa point.
Old Set:
Pressure (Aerodactyl) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 212 HP / 164 Def / 132 Spe
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Rest
- Hidden Power [Flying] / Taunt / Rock Slide / Earthquake
New Set:
Pressure (Aerodactyl) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Rest
- Hidden Power [Flying] / Taunt / Rock Slide / Earthquake
Same Speed, wayyyy better bulk in general
252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaring Rock Slide vs. 212 HP / 164+ Def Aerodactyl: 282-332 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaring Rock Slide vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Aerodactyl: 278-328 (77 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
However, if you wanted the same bulk, you could run 212 HP / 244 Def and have 36 EVs for Attack investment, perhaps. IDK if it matters at all (definitely doesn't for the taunt variant)
Old Set:
Choice Band (Jirachi) @ Choice Band
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 72 Atk / 196 Def / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Shadow Ball
- Body Slam
- Aerial Ace
New Set:
Choice Band (Jirachi) @ Choice Band
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 176 Atk / 196 Def / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Shadow Ball
- Body Slam
- Aerial Ace
One more Attack point, same speed.
Old Set:
Light Screen (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpA / 144 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Recover
- Surf
- Icy Wind
New Set:
Light Screen (Milotic) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 132 SpA / 28 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Recover
- Surf
- Icy Wind
Same SpDef, 5 more Special Attack
Old Set:
Anti Stall (Hypno) @ leftoverschestoberry
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Impish Nature
- Skill Swap
- Counter / Barrier
- Rest
- Seismic Toss
New Set:
Anti Stall (Hypno) @ leftoverschestoberry
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 48 SpD
Careful Nature
- Skill Swap
- Counter / Barrier
- Rest
- Seismic Toss
I haven't applied to EVs here, but you do have 28 extra now. Maybe invest in Speed? or more bulk.
Uhh yeah thats it. Everything else is EVed well. Pls implement whenever you can, I'll probably be doing the other Old Gen compendiums too
Onto DPP- Same deal as with ADV, just optimizing EVs from the set compendium, update when you can-DPP 1v1
Ruleset - [Gen 4] OU, Team Preview
Bans - Latias, Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys-All, Dialga, Garchomp, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Latios, Lugia, Machamp, Manaphy, Mew, Mewtwo, Palkia, Porygon-Z, Rayquaza, Salamence, Shaymin-Sky, Snorlax, Focus Sash, Soul Dew, Dark Void, Grass Whistle, Hypnosis, Lovely Kiss, Perish Song, Sing, Sleep Powder, Spore, Yawn, Flash, Kinesis, Mirror Shot, Mud Bomb, Mud-Slap, Muddy Water, Octazooka, Sand Attack, Smokescreen, Explosion, Self Destruct, Destiny Bond, Shaymin
Notable Bans: Sleep, Latias, Latios, Porygon-Z, Snorlax, Machamp, Shaymin
Unbans - Wobbuffet, Wynaut, Sand Veil
Managed by: PA, Euphonos
VR Council: PA [leader], Euphonos [co-leader], Inkreativ, 187 Fan, Jabiru, Jamez, crucify.
Resources:
S Rank
S- Rank
A+ Rank
A Rank
Clefable
A-Rank
B+ Rank
Rotom-A
B Rank
Azelf
Tangrowth
B- Rank
C+ Rank
Dusknoir
Electivire
C Rank
C- Rank
Abomasnow
Articuno
Camerupt
Lanturn
Magmortar
Spiritomb
Yanmega
D Rank
Gliscor
Lucario
Sample Teams:
Sets Compendium - https://pokepast.es/e3f75c83e46fd3b8
Old Set:
Specs (Cresselia) (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 124 Def / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Shadow Ball
New Set:
Specs (Cresselia) (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 16 Def / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Shadow Ball
Same defense and 6 more Special Attack.
Old Set:
CM + Rest (Suicune) @ Mail
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 16 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Calm Mind
New Set:
CM + Rest (Suicune) @ Mail
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 128 SpA / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Calm Mind
Same defense, 6 more Spa
Old Set:
Choice Scarf (Rotom-Heat) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 132 SpA / 128 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Trick
New Set:
Choice Scarf (Rotom-Heat) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 36 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Trick
Same Speed, one more Special Attack
Old Set:
Choice Scarf (Rotom-Frost) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 96 HP / 208 Def / 60 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
New Set:
Choice Scarf (Rotom-Frost) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 96 HP / 100 Def / 168 SpA / 144 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Trick
- Shadow Ball
Same Defense, one more Special Attack
Old Set:
Band (Flygon) @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Aerial Ace / Thunder Punch
New Set/
Band (Flygon) @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Aerial Ace / Thunder Punch
lol
Old Set:
Band (Azumarill) @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 220 HP / 128 Atk / 160 Def
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Waterfall
- Return
- Ice Punch
New Set:
Band (Azumarill) @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 220 HP / 212 Atk / 76 Def
Impish Nature
- Superpower
- Waterfall
- Return
- Ice Punch
Same defense, effectively 10 new Attack points
Old Set:
Chople (Porygon2) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Recover
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Flying] / Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
New Set:
Chople (Porygon2) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Recover
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Flying] / Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
Same defense, 5 more Special Attack
Old Set:
Petaya (Regice) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 200 HP / 168 Def / 48 SpA / 92 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Rock Polish
- Hidden Power [Water]
bruh this is awful lmfaoo
New Set:
Petaya (Regice) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 200 HP / 68 Def / 88 SpA / 152 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Rock Polish
- Hidden Power [Water]
Same defense and speed, 10 more special attack
Old Set:
Yache (Gliscor) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 102 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 150 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Agility
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Aqua Tail
Huh??? 102 and 150 EVs are not a thing
New Set:
Yache (Gliscor) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Agility
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Aqua Tail
Same speed, more HP
Update the DPP compendium when you can uwu. Doing BW next
Last edited:
Time for BW! Just optimizing EVsBW 1v1Banlist: OU Banlist + Focus Sash, Accuracy Moves Clause, Cottonee, Dragonite, Kyurem-Black, Perish Song, Whimsicott, Victini, Togekiss, Mew, Jirachi
Unbanlist: Genesect, Landorus-Incarnate, Thundurus-Incarnate, Tornadus-Therian, Manaphy, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Sand Rush
Council: DEG, Freddy Kyogre, PA, Potatochan, Sanshokuinsumireko, neomon, Gym Socks!
Resources:
S
S-
A+
A
A-
B+
B
B-
C+
C
C-
D
5: FEAR Aron
76: 0 Ferrothorn / Escavalier
86: 0 Dusclops
96: 0 Snorlax / Reuniclus / Cofagrigus
100: 0 Carracosta
102: 0 Bronzong
106: 0 Quagsire
114: 0 Gastrodon
116: 0 Rhyperior
126: 0 Crustle / Conkeldurr / Golem
130: 0 Hippowdown
136: 0 Chansey / Registeel / Azumarill
146: 0 Blissey
152: 0 Scrafty
156: 0 Jellicent / Magnezone / Porygon2 / Clefable
158: 0 Tyranitar
159: 252 Snorlax
163: 252 Carracosta
166: 0 Umbreon
176: 0 Metagross / Politoed
179: 252 Rhyperior
179: 252+ Carracosta
189: 252 Crustle / Conkeldurr / Golem
190: 0 Heatran
196: 0 Chandelure / Togekiss / Gallade / Venusaur
198: 0 Gyarados
206: 0 Cresselia / Sawk / Suicune / Heracross
207: 252+ Crustle
208: 0 Rotom-Wash
215: 252 Scrafty
216: 0 Meloetta / Porygon-Z / Moltres
218: 0 Landorus-T
219: 252 Jellicent / Magnezone / Porygon2
221: 252 Tyranitar
230: 0 Haxorus
232: 0 Hydreigon
236: 0 Manaphy / Celebi / Slaking / Zapdos / Salamence
238: 0 Landorus
239: 252 Metagross / Breloom / Politoed
240: 0 Garchomp
240: 252+ Magnezone
252: +2 0 Crustle
252: 0 Galvantula
253: 252 Heatran
256: 0 Latias
259: 252 Chandelure / Togekiss / Gallade / Venusaur
261: 252 Gyarados
262: 252+ Metagross / Breloom / Politoed
266: 0 Raikou / Starmie / Cinccino
269: 252 Sawk / Cresselia / Suicune / Heracross
271: 252 Rotom-Wash
273: 252+ Smeargle
278: 252+ Heatran
279: 252 Porygon-Z / Meloetta / Moltres
281: 252 Landorus-T
284: 252+ Chandelure / Togekiss / Gallade
287: 252+ Gyarados
293: 252 Haxorus
295: 252+ Sawk / Suicune / Heracross
295: 252 Hydreigon
297: 252 Genesect
298: 252+ Rotom-Wash
299: 252 Celebi / Slaking / Victini / Volcarona / Staraptor / Zapdos / Salamence
301: Landorus-T
302: 252+ Excadrill
303: 252 Garchomp
306: 252+ Porygon-Z / Meloetta / Moltres
309: 252+ Landorus-T
315: 252 Keldeo / Infernape / Terrakion / Galvantula / Virizion
317: 252+ Darmanitan
317: 252 Durant
319: 252 Latios / Latias / Gengar
322: 252+ Haxorus
324: 252+ Hydreigon
326: 252+ Genesect
326: +2 252 Carracosta
328: 252+ Manaphy / Celebi / Slaking / Volcarona / Staraptor / Zapdos / Salamence
329: 252 Raikou / Starmie / Cinccino
331: 252+ Landorus
333: 252+ Garchomp
339: 252 Alakazam
341: 252 Tornadus-T
346: 252+ Keldeo / Infernape / Terrakion / Galvantula / Virizion
348: 252+ Durant
349: 252 Weavile
350: 252+ Latios / Jumpluff / Archeops / Latias / Gengar
358: Scarf 252 Metagross
358: +2 252+ Carracosta
361: 252+ Raikou / Starmie / Cinccino
372: 252+ Alakazam
375: 252+ Tornadus-T
378: +2 252 Crustle
383: 252+ Weavile
388: Scarf 252 Chandelure / Togekiss
393: Scarf 252+ Metagross
394: 252+ Aerodactyl
403: Scarf 252 Sawk
412: Scarf 252 Excadrill
414: +2 252+ Crustle
419: Scarf 252 Porygon-Z
421: Scarf 252 Landorus-T
426: Scarf 252+ Chandelure / Togekiss
433: Scarf 252 Darmanitan
439: Scarf 252 Haxorus
442: Scarf 252+ Sawk
442: Scarf 252 Hydreigon
445: Scarf 252 Genesect
448: Scarf 252 Slaking / Staraptor
453: Scarf 252+ Excadrill
454: Scarf 252 Garchomp
462: Scarf 252+ Porygon-Z
463: Scarf 252+ Landorus-T
472: Scarf 252 Keldeo / Infernape / Terrakion
475: Scarf 252+ Darmanitan
478: Scarf 252 Latios / Archeops
482: Scarf 252+ Haxorus
486: Scarf 252+ Hydreigon
489: Scarf 252+ Genesect
492: Scarf 252+ Slaking
499: Scarf 252+ Garchomp
519: Scarf 252+ Keldeo
525: Scarf 252+ Latios / Archeops
Prankster: Sableye, Riolu, Murkrow, Thundurus
Sample Teams:
Hariyama Bulky Offense by SolarflareRo
Occa Genesect Balance by crucify
Sets Compendium: https://pokepast.es/de5a964bbc19ed8b
Old Set:
Chople Berry (Snorlax) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defense Curl
- Counter
- Amnesia
- Rest
Okay so this one is a bit weird. The bulk below is the same effective bulk as the one above, but you can technically EV to get it to have about 1% better bulk, with lower HP (HP maximized to maximize Counter damage). However, given that its chople berry, it may be that the EVs were made for a specific Pokemon, though I couldn't find the mon in question - you seem to live all the fighting type attacks with room to spare. So unless this has a specific reason, EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD gives basically the exact same bulk, but could affect possible Chople Rolls or non-OHKO calcs.
Old Set:
SubSeed (Exeggutor) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 100 SpA / 16 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Psyshock
New Set:
SubSeed (Exeggutor) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 4 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Psyshock
Same Def, 1 More Spa
But really, really good EVing otherwise! Great job crucify / BW council / whoever made it
Time for ORAS, the objectively best metagame. Just optimizing EVsRuleset: Pokemon, Nickname Clause, Moody Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Swagger Clause, Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Team Preview
Bans: Illegal, Unreleased, Arceus, Blaziken, Darkrai, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Dialga, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Shaymin-Sky, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom, Perish Song, Focus Sash, Kangaskhanite, Salamencite, Chansey + Charm + Seismic Toss, Flash, Kinesis, Leaf Tornado, Mirror Shot, Mud Bomb, Mud-Slap, Muddy Water, Night Daze, Octazooka, Sand Attack, Smokescreen, Soul Dew
Unbans: Aegislash, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Gengar-Mega, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Landorus-I, Lucario-Mega, Sableye-Mega, Mawile-Mega.
VR Council: DEG, 187 Fan, crucify, OM, LRXC, Elo Bandit, Mubs, DezShizzels
Resources:
S+
S
S-
Mawile-Mega
Metagross-Mega
A+
Altaria-Mega
Gardevoir-Mega
Greninja
Gyarados-Mega
Slowbro-Mega
Victini
A
Lopunny-Mega
Tyranitar-Mega
Venusaur-Mega
A-
Diancie-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Togekiss
B+
Aggron-Mega
Heracross-Mega
Hoopa-Unbound
Volcanion
B
Diancie
Garchomp-Mega
Sylveon
B-
Aegislash
Blastoise-Mega
Deoxys-Speed
Latias-Mega
Pinsir-Mega
Swampert-Mega
Talonflame
C+
Alakazam-Mega
Camerupt-Mega
Gallade-Mega
Manectric-Mega
C
Emboar
Golem
C-
Aurorus
D
Abomasnow-Mega
Banette-Mega
Glalie-Mega
Klefki
Musharna
Do not use
Ditto
Magnemite
Key
Min Speed = 0 IVs + Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
-Nature = Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
Bulky = 0 EVs
Fast = 252 EVs
Max Speed = Increasing Nature + 252 EVs
Any instance of a Speed increasing item, ability, or relevant element will also be mentioned.
Note: In Gen 6, speed changes caused by a mon mega evolving take effect on the next turn
Bolded text will be used to indicate particularly important benchmarks
- slow-
40: Min Speed Ferrothorn
76: Bulky Sableye-Mega, Bulky Camerupt-Mega
94: Min Speed Aggron-Mega
96: Bulky Slowbro-Mega, Bulky Snorlax
116: Bulky Rhyperior, Bulky Camerupt
122: -Nature Diancie
126: Bulky Golem, Bulky Ampharos-Mega
136: Bulky Mawile-Mega, Bulky Pre-Mega Diancie, Bulky Aggron-Mega, Bulky Azumarill, Bulky Chansey, Bulky Pre-Mega Sableye, Bulky Registeel, Bulky Donphan
140: -Nature Aegislash
156: Bulky Sylveon, Bulky Aegislash, Bulky Magnezone, Bulky Empoleon, Bulky Porygon2, Bulky Pre-Mega Swampert
158: Bulky Pre-Mega Tyranitar
166: Bulky Pre-Mega Scizor
176: Bulky Pre-Mega Metagross, Bulky Volcanion, Bulky Swampert-Mega
178: Bulky Tyranitar-Mega
179: Fast Rhyperior
186: Bulky Heracross-Mega, Bulky Scizor-Mega
189: Fast Golem, Fast Crustle
- medium -
190: Bulky Heatran
192: Bulky Blastoise-Mega
196: Bulky Altaria-Mega, Bulky Venusaur-Mega, Bulky Dragonite, Bulky Togekiss
198: Bulky Gyarados-Mega, Bulky Hoopa-Unbound
199: Fast Aggron, Fast Donphan, Fast Azumarill
206: Bulky Pre-Mega Heracross
207: Max Speed Crustle
216: Bulky Porygon-Z, Bulky Meloetta
218: Max Speed Pre-Mega Diancie, Bulky Landorus-T, Max Speed Aggron, Max Speed Donphan
221: Fast Pre-Mega Tyranitar
226: Bulky Kyurem-Black
236: Bulky Manaphy, Bulky Charizard-Mega-X, Bulky Charizard-Mega-Y, Bulky Volcarona, Bulky Entei
238: Bulky Pre-Mega Pidgeot
239: Fast Pre-Mega Metagross, Fast Volcanion
241: Fast Tyranitar-Mega
243: Max Speed Pre-Mega Tyranitar
246: Bulky Pre-Mega Manectric
249: Fast Heracross-Mega
255: Fast Blastoise-Mega
256: Bulky Diancie-Mega, Bulky Metagross-Mega
259: Fast Dragonite, Fast Togekiss, Fast Pre-Mega Gardevoir, Fast Hoopa-Unbound
261: Fast Gyarados-Mega
262: Max Speed Metagross, Max Speed Breloom, Max Speed Volcanion
265: Max Speed Tyranitar-Mega
268: Bulky Whimsicott
269: Fast Sawk, Fast Pre-Mega Heracross
273: Max Speed Smeargle, Max Speed Heracross-Mega
278: Max Speed Heatran, Bulky Pidgeot-Mega
- fast -
279: Fast Porygon-Z
281: Fast Landorus-T
284: Max Speed Pre-Mega Gardevoir, Max Speed Togekiss, Max Speed Dragonite, Max Speed Pre-Mega Medicham, Max Speed Pre-Mega Gallade, Max Speed Altaria-Mega, Max Speed Hoopa-Unbound, Max Speed Venusaur-Mega
287: Max Speed Gyarados-Mega
288: Bulky Talonflame
289: Fast Kyurem-Black
293: Fast Haxorus
295: Max Speed Pre-Mega Pinsir, Max Speed Pre-Mega Heracross, Max Speed Sawk
297: Fast Genesect
298: Fast Scarf Aggron
299: Fast Charizard-Mega-X, Fast Charizard-Mega-X, Fast Gardevoir-Mega, Fast Victini, Fast Slaking, Fast Volcarona, Fast Entei
301: Fast Pre-Mega Pidgeot
304: Max Speed Vivillon
306: Max Speed Porygon-Z, Max Speed Meloetta, Max Speed Pre-Mega Lucario, Bulky Manectric-Mega
309: Fast Pre-Mega Lopunny, Max Speed Landorus-T, Fast Pre-Mega Manectric
317: Max Speed Kyurem-Black
319: Fast Metagross-Mega
322: Max Speed Haxorus
326: Max Speed Genesect
327: Scarf Max Speed Aggron
328: Max Speed Charizard-Mega-X, Max Speed Charizard-Mega-Y, Max Speed Gardevoir-Mega, Max Speed Victini, Max Speed Manaphy, Max Speed Mew, Max Speed Jirachi, Max Speed Medicham-Mega, Max Speed Slaking, Max Speed Volcarona, Max Speed Entei
331: Max Speed Landorus, Max Speed Pre-Mega Pidgeot, Max Speed Thundurus-Therian
333: Max Speed Garchomp
339: Max Speed Pre-Mega Lopunny, Max Speed Pinsir-Mega, Max Speed Pre-Mega Manectric
341: Fast Pidgeot-Mega
343: Fast Greninja
346: Max Speed Terrakion
350: Max Speed Metagross-Mega, Max Speed Diancie-Mega, Max Speed Pre-Mega Gengar, Max Speed Archeops, Max Speed Latias-Mega, Max Speed Jumpluff, Max Speed Latios, Max Speed Gallade-Mega
351: Fast Talonflame
355: Max Speed Lucario-Mega
356: Max Speed Serperior
358: Fast Scarf Volcanion
369: Fast Lopunny-Mega, Fast Manectric-Mega
372: Max Speed Pre-Mega Alakazam
375: Max Speed Pidgeot-Mega
377: Max Speed Greninja
378: +2 Fast Crustle
386: Max Speed Talonflame
- nascar -
388: Fast Scarf Dragonite, Fast Scarf Togekiss, Fast Scarf Hoopa-Unbound
391: +1 Max Speed Gyarados-Mega
393: Scarf Max Speed Volcanion
394: Max Speed Gengar-Mega
403: Fast Scarf Sawk
405: Max Speed Lopunny-Mega, Max Speed Manectric-Mega
414: +2 Max Speed Crustle
417: Scarf Max Speed Heatran
418: Fast Scarf Porygon-Z
421: Fast Scarf Landorus-T
426: Scarf Max Speed Dragonite, Scarf Max Speed Togekiss, Max Speed Hoopa-Unbound
433: Fast Scarf Kyurem-Black
438: Max Speed Alakazam-Mega
439: Fast Scarf Haxorus
442: Scarf Max Speed Sawk
445: Fast Scarf Genesect
448: +1 Fast Charizard-Mega-X, Fast Scarf Slaking, +1 Fast Volcarona
459: Scarf Max Speed Porygon-Z, Fast Deoxys-Speed
463: Scarf Max Speed Landorus-T
472: Fast Scarf Terrakion
475: Scarf Max Speed Kyurem-Black
483: Scarf Max Speed Haxorus
489: Scarf Max Speed Genesect
492: +1 Max Speed Charizard-Mega-X, Scarf Max Speed Jirachi, Scarf Max Speed Victini, Scarf Max Speed Slaking, +1 Max Speed Volcarona
496: Scarf Max Speed Landorus
499: Scarf Max Speed Garchomp
504: Max Speed Deoxys-Speed
514: Fast Scarf Greninja
519: Scarf Max Speed Terrakion
525: Scarf Max Speed Archeops
565: Scarf Max Speed Greninja
Sets Compendium: https://pokepast.es/1ef8eb53b9118a96 [EDITED 1/3/2022]
Sample Teams:
Team
Team - by crucify
Team - by DEG
Team - by STABLE
Team - by Trashuny
Old Set:
Bdrum Tailwind (Charizard-Mega-X) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Atk / 144 Def / 56 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Belly Drum
- Tailwind
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
New set:
Bdrum Tailwind (Charizard-Mega-X) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Atk / 40 Def / 144 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Belly Drum
- Tailwind
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
Same Def and Spdef, 4 more attack (unless the Defense is calced for Regular Charizard form, then ignore this)
Old Set:
Haban Berry Toxic (Kyurem-Black) @ Haban Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 224 HP / 176 Def / 108 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Outrage
- Toxic
- Roost / Rest
New Set:
Haban Berry Toxic (Kyurem-Black) @ Haban Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 224 HP / 4 Atk / 76 Def / 204 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Outrage
- Toxic
- Roost / Rest
Same defense and spdef, 1 more attack
Old Set: Custap (Sylveon) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endure
- Hyper Beam
- Hyper Voice
- Fake Tears
New Set:
Custap (Sylveon) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Endure
- Hyper Beam
- Hyper Voice
- Fake Tears
Same defense, 10 more special attack.
Also pretty good, besides for a few niche sets. Easily updatable
Time for USUM, the objectively best metagame. I hope they didn't ruin my baby :<USUM 1v1Ruleset - Obtainable, Species Clause, Nickname Clause, Moody Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Accuracy Moves Clause, Swagger Clause, Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Team Preview
Bans - Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys-Base, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Dialga, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kangaskhan-Mega, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Mewtwo, Mimikyu, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Salamence-Mega, Shaymin-Sky, Snorlax, Solgaleo, Tapu Koko, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zekrom, Focus Sash, Perish Song, Detect + Fightinium Z
VR Council: Rosa, Squirtell 1v1, Elo Bandit, TheShadowClaw, Close, rumia
S Rank
Charizard-Mega-X
Dragonite
S- Rank
Charizard-Mega-Y
Gyarados-Mega
Magearna
Mew
A+ Rank
Gardevoir-Mega
Greninja
Metagross-Mega
Porygon-Z
Tapu Lele
A Rank
Meloetta
Slowbro-Mega
Victini
Zeraora
Zygarde-Complete
A- Rank
Aegislash
Heatran
Kommo-o
Landorus-Therian
Magnezone
Mawile-Mega
Primarina
Serperior
Tapu Fini
B+ Rank
Aggron-Mega
Altaria-Mega
Blaziken-Mega
Celesteela
Clefable
Crustle
Donphan
Garchomp
Genesect
Incineroar
Naganadel
Porygon2
Sableye-Mega
Togekiss
Tyranitar-Mega
Venusaur-Mega
B Rank
Carracosta
Diancie-Mega
Ferrothorn
Hoopa-Unbound
Jirachi
Kartana
Magneton
Necrozma
Pheromosa
Pinsir-Mega
Registeel
Scizor-Mega
Tapu Bulu
Volcarona
Whimsicott
B- Rank
Aggron
Ambipom
Archeops
Audino-Mega
Deoxys-S
Durant
Golem
Haxorus
Heracross-Mega
Jumpluff
Latias-Mega
Medicham-Mega
Nihilego
Quagsire
Rhyperior
Sawk
Swampert-Mega
Terrakion
Type: Null
Vivillon
Zapdos
C+ Rank
Araquanid
Avalugg
Blacephalon
Camerupt-Mega
Chansey
Diggersby
Emboar
Gallade-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Gigalith
Gyarados
Keldeo
Latios
Lucario-Mega
Pidgeot-Mega
Raikou
Regice
Rotom-Heat
Salamence
Scrafty
Slaking
Smeargle
Thundurus-Therian
Tyranitar
Umbreon
Vaporeon
Volcanion
C Rank
Aerodactyl-Mega
Blastoise-Mega
Blaziken
Buzzwole
Darmanitan
Empoleon
Entei
Excadrill
Illumise
Infernape
Landorus
Marowak-Alola
Muk-Alola
Pyukumuku
Rotom-Wash
Scolipede
Skarmory
Staraptor
Steelix-Mega
Suicune
Trevenant
Xurkitree
C- Rank
Abomasnow-Mega
Alakazam
Alakazam-Mega
Azumarill
Blissey
Breloom
Celebi
Garchomp-Mega
Gengar
Hydreigon
Lycanroc-Dusk
Milotic
Musharna
Ninetales-Alola
Reuniclus
Salazzle
Sceptile-Mega
Sylveon
Thundurus
Togedemaru
Weavile
D Rank
Ampharos-Mega
Arcanine
Aron
Bellossom
Chandelure
Cloyster
Hawlucha
Mamoswine
Nidoking
Rampardos
Relicanth
Riolu
Sceptile
Shedinja
Stakataka
VR Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RteIA0rOipjlxWLf4FO8AR9cKXqtO7Lp5vUnO0Rg6YE/edit?usp=sharing
Resources:
General Resources: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-general-information-resources-ask-questions-here.3646761/
Sets VR: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-sets-viability-rankings.3646825/
Set Compendiums: https://pokepast.es/802faa48aaddc3db https://pokepast.es/f83a6a502d0141ca (Old)
Sample Teams: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-sample-teams.3646826/#post-7094792
Speed Tiers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-speed-tiers.3646928/
Just optimizing EVs
Old Set:
Anti Dnite (Tapu Lele) @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Reflect
- Draining Kiss
- Psychic
New Set:
Anti Dnite (Tapu Lele) @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 52 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Reflect
- Draining Kiss
- Psychic
Same Def and Speed, but you have 4 EVs leftover. Honestly I would invest in speed for the speed creep personally, unless theres a roll for a MU that needs to be improved.
Old Set:
Z-Cel HP Fire (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP / 76 Def / 72 SpA / 28 SpD / 92 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Laser Focus
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
New Set:
Z-Cel HP Fire (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpA / 28 SpD / 8 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Laser Focus
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Same Def and Speed, 1 more Special Attack.
Old Set:
Bold Z-Celebrate (Victini) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 196 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Stored Power
- Searing Shot
- Taunt
New Set:
Bold Z-Celebrate (Victini) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Stored Power
- Searing Shot
- Taunt
same defense, 1 more speed (rounds up from from 284 to 286, so nothing can go in Special Attack, unfortunately)
Old Set:
Anti Dnite (Victini) @ Icium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 60 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Glaciate
- Blue Flare
- Taunt
New Set:
Anti Dnite (Victini) @ Icium Z
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 160 SpA / 4 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Glaciate
- Blue Flare
- Taunt
Same Special Attack, 1 more speed (same condition as one above)
Old Set:
Anti Zygarde (Zygarde) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 8 HP / 108 Atk / 244 Def / 148 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Substitute
New Set:
Anti Zygarde (Zygarde) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 8 HP / 124 Atk / 124 Def / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Coil
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Substitute
Same Speed, same defense, 4 more attack, carries into Zyg-C
Old Set:
Adamant SpDef (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 244 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt
- Metal Burst / Swords Dance / Fire Fang
New Set:
Adamant SpDef (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 140 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt
- Metal Burst / Swords Dance / Fire Fang
Same Spdef, 2 more Attack
Old Set:
Brave SpDef (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 18 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt
- Metal Burst
New Set:
Brave SpDef (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 148 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 18 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt
- Metal Burst
Same SpDef and Speed, 2 more Attack
Old Set:
Anti Dnite (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 24 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt
- Protect
New Set:
Anti Dnite (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 148 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 24 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt
- Protect
Same SpDef, 2 more attack
Old Set:
Anti Fairy/Steel (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 8 Atk / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Fire Fang
- Magnet Rise
New Set:
Anti Fairy/Steel (Mawile-Mega) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 112 Atk / 144 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Fire Fang
- Magnet Rise
Same SpDef, 2 more Attack
Old Set:
Z-Iron Defense (Celesteela) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 188 HP / 60 SpA / 88 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Metal Sound
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain
New Set:
Z-Iron Defense (Celesteela) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 188 HP / 68 SpA / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Metal Sound
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain
Same speed, one more spdef, 2 more special attack
Old set:
Anti Dnite (Celesteela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Heavy Slam / Autotomize
New Set:
Anti Dnite (Celesteela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 232 HP / 12 Atk / 120 Def / 144 SpD or 232 HP / 120 Def / 144 SpD / 12 Spe or 232 HP / 132 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Heavy Slam / Autotomize
Same SpDef, and either 3 more attack, 3 more speed, or 3 more defense. Idk which one is best for this, i'd do speed or attack personally.
Old Set:
Mixed Bulk 2A (Venusaur-Mega) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 168 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
New Set:
Mixed Bulk 2A (Venusaur-Mega) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 112 SpA / 56 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Same Special Attack, 1 more SpDef (unfortunately can't get extra spa)
Old Set:
Sleep 3A (Venusaur-Mega) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 180 SpA / 24 SpD / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
New Set:
Sleep 3A (Venusaur-Mega) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 68 SpA / 24 SpD / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
Same defense, 1 more special attack
Old Set:
Timid Scarf (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magician
EVs: 160 HP / 200 SpA / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Gunk Shot
New Set:
Timid Scarf (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magician
EVs: 160 HP / 108 SpA / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Gunk Shot
same speed, 17 more special attack
Old Set:
Elemental Punches (Lopunny-Mega) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 120 HP / 4 Atk / 196 Def / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
New Set:
Elemental Punches (Lopunny-Mega) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 120 HP / 132 Atk / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
Same Speed, 2 more Attack
Old Set:
Rain Dance Hydration (Manaphy) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 240 HP / 48 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Armor
- Rest
- Rain Dance
- Surf
New Set:
Rain Dance Hydration (Manaphy) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 240 HP / 152 SpA / 116 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Armor
- Rest
- Rain Dance
- Surf
Same Speed, 2 more spa
For some reason, your Adamant Z-Giga Impact Ambipom has a Jolly nature.
Old Set:
Metronome (Kyurem) @ Metronome
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 4 SpA / 8 SpD / 200 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Noble Roar
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
New Set:
Metronome (Kyurem) @ Metronome
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 20 SpA / 92 SpD / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Noble Roar
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
same speed and spdef, 4 more spa.
Old Set:
Def Tomb (Medicham-Mega) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 176 HP / 68 Atk / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Rock Tomb
New Set:
Def Tomb (Medicham-Mega) @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 176 HP / 68 Atk / 156 Def / 108 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Rock Tomb
Same defense, 263 speed instead of 262 (though you can put the extra 4 evs into attack if you want)
Old Set:
Jolly Scarf (Sawk) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Old Set:
SpDef Flame Charge (Type: Null) @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 180 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Confide
- Iron Defense
- Rest
- Flame Charge
New Set:
SpDef Flame Charge (Type: Null) @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 84 SpD / 60 Spe
Careful Nature
- Confide
- Iron Defense
- Rest
- Flame Charge
Same SpDef, 1 more Def
Old Set:
Bulky Reflect Stall (Zapdos) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Static
EVs: 240 HP / 28 SpA / 236 SpD / 4 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
- Reflect
New Set:
Bulky Reflect Stall (Zapdos) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Static
EVs: 240 HP / 36 SpA / 136 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
- Reflect
same Speed and SpDef, 2 more SpA
Old Set:
SpDef Sub (Araquanid) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Atk / 140 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Substitute
- Laser Focus
- Mirror Coat
New Set:
SpDef Sub (Araquanid) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Atk / 20 SpD
Careful Nature
- Liquidation
- Substitute
- Laser Focus
- Mirror Coat
Same Spdef, 10 more Attack
Old Set:
Anti Zard/Tapus (Muk-Alola) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 188 HP / 68 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Shadow Sneak
- Gunk Shot
- Payback
New Set:
Anti Zard/Tapus (Muk-Alola) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 188 HP / 176 Atk / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stone Edge
- Shadow Sneak
- Gunk Shot
- Payback
Same SpDef, 1 more Attack
Old Set:
Z-Aqua Tail (Azumarill) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 200 HP / 120 Atk / 100 Def / 88 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Aqua Tail
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
New Set:
Z-Aqua Tail (Azumarill) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 200 HP / 200 Atk / 20 Def / 88 SpD
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Aqua Tail
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
Same Defense, 4 more Attack (though it feels like you can consolidate the HP/Def/SpD stats a bit more, idk what they're eved for tho
You could change this set to have more Special Attack, but idk what the shadow claw is for, and if it needs to OHKO/2HKO smth specifically.
Bulletproof Shadow Claw (Kommo-o) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 168 HP / 184 SpD / 156 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Claw
- Substitute
Wow this one took way longer than I thought. A whole bunch of small stuff + a few major things. Elo Bandit I believe this is your compendium, so-
great number of diverse sets though, honestly exactly what a compendium should be
After PL, I sent an ORAS and BW survey to the people that played the tiers. Thank you to the people that replied.
On ORAS: The general opinion is that Snorlax is broken and unhealthy to the metagame. PL has pushed Snorlax too far and with its stall set alone it is able to beat a huge chunk of the metagame, and when we add Bdrum and Curse to the conversation it creates more layers of setguessing. Choice Band is also a set that can catch a lot of Pokemon off guard, it has a bunch of coverage moves which allows it to run whatever it wants. Additionally, Fighting-type Pokemon aren't amazing in ORAS so being kinda forced to run one stresses teambuilding. On the other side, one may say, that Snorlax counters may adapt and we'll see more Substitute, SD usage for example, but nothing concrete for now. With support from the playing community and council Snorlax will be suspected in ORAS 1v1.
While Charizard has seen a lot of usage in PL, the general opinion is that its not unhealthy or too broken. It is true that its a centralizing force in the metagame but there has been a lot of new sets that can restrain it and we haven't seen anything crazy coming from it. Pokemon like Snorlax, Facade Malt, DD TTar, Rock Tomb Mega Diancie, Greninja variations, and Mega Gyarados have all been making zard manageable for now.
Qualifications:
We have decided to omit WC from the qualifications list as the WC meta doesn't really mirror the current meta and the people that qualify from there stopped playing ORAS 1v1 as a whole.
On BW: There's concerns on Snorlax also in BW but the general opinion was to wait a bit and see how this Pokemon develop as we do not think that it is problematic enough to deserve a suspect. However, the community and council feel like we should suspect sleep inducing moves to stay consistent with other gens. We're also going to stay consistent with the qualifications and adapt ORAS ones.
Qualifications:
On ORAS: The general opinion is that Snorlax is broken and unhealthy to the metagame. PL has pushed Snorlax too far and with its stall set alone it is able to beat a huge chunk of the metagame, and when we add Bdrum and Curse to the conversation it creates more layers of setguessing. Choice Band is also a set that can catch a lot of Pokemon off guard, it has a bunch of coverage moves which allows it to run whatever it wants. Additionally, Fighting-type Pokemon aren't amazing in ORAS so being kinda forced to run one stresses teambuilding. On the other side, one may say, that Snorlax counters may adapt and we'll see more Substitute, SD usage for example, but nothing concrete for now. With support from the playing community and council Snorlax will be suspected in ORAS 1v1.
While Charizard has seen a lot of usage in PL, the general opinion is that its not unhealthy or too broken. It is true that its a centralizing force in the metagame but there has been a lot of new sets that can restrain it and we haven't seen anything crazy coming from it. Pokemon like Snorlax, Facade Malt, DD TTar, Rock Tomb Mega Diancie, Greninja variations, and Mega Gyarados have all been making zard manageable for now.
Qualifications:
- Council member OR
- ORAS Cup Finalists OR
- Played atleast 3 series of ORAS in PL, and atleast won a game OR.
- Played atleast 5 series of Multigen in PL, and is positive. (new)
We have decided to omit WC from the qualifications list as the WC meta doesn't really mirror the current meta and the people that qualify from there stopped playing ORAS 1v1 as a whole.
On BW: There's concerns on Snorlax also in BW but the general opinion was to wait a bit and see how this Pokemon develop as we do not think that it is problematic enough to deserve a suspect. However, the community and council feel like we should suspect sleep inducing moves to stay consistent with other gens. We're also going to stay consistent with the qualifications and adapt ORAS ones.
Qualifications:
- Council member OR
- BW Cup Finalists OR
- Played atleast 3 series of BW in PL, and atleast won a game OR.
- Played atleast 5 series of Multigen in PL, and is positive. (new)
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Here's something that I'm going to point out as of now (though everything else will be released in quite a far future):
^ (still in progress)
Otherwise, I'll consider the rest of the suggestions later on. Thank you for helping out!
for the purposes of avoiding an OHKO from +1 Blaze Infernape and avoiding a 4HKO from Jirachi:
The evs you gave here don't actually always prevent the 4HKO (252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 152 HP / 36 Def Cresselia: 91-108 (21.7 - 25.7%) -- 1.2% chance to 4HKO), but it does lower it to basically-irrelevant odds. However, you can EV to actually guarantee avoiding the 4HKO, while getting more Special Attack than you had previously.
Cresselia (F)
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Fire]
+1 252 SpA Blaze Infernape Blast Burn vs. 224 HP / 16 SpD Cresselia: 370-436 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 224 HP / 16 Def Cresselia: 93-109 (21.2 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
This gives you an extra 4 EVs, which I just put into Special Attack for the HP Fire set, but will be needed in Special Defense for the HP Ground set (so run EVs: 224 HP / 16 Def / 248 SpA / 20 SpD instead (+1 252 SpA Blaze Infernape Blast Burn vs. 224 HP / 20 SpD Cresselia: 370-436 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO))
Of course, there are plenty more EVs you could save if you are willing to creep the Jirachi 4HKO odds, which, honestly, I'd be perfectly fine with, since you'll need to break through Jirachi twice to win, which is never going to be consistent in the first place. If you do creep those odds, putting it in Speed for speed creeps would be the natural option.
For the one with 76 Speed, since we're no longer caring about Jirachi (since 152 HP by itself gives it a 14.6% chance to 4HKO),
Cresselia (F)
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 32 HP / 236 SpA / 164 SpD / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
You could run something like this, but since the 76 is already a speed creep, and since this obv. lowers Cresselia's overall physdef, you can play around with the Special Attack and Speed to find what works best for you. There probably is a physical mon you need to bulk for in DPP, but I barely play the metagame. If you give me the mon you need to EV for, I could make a set, tho.
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the ORAS 1v1 Snorlax suspect has concluded:
Ban (10): crucify, pqs, Elo Bandit, Trashuny, bird poop, Mubs, neomon, Inkreativ, DezShizzels, 187 Fan
Do Not Ban (5): Potatochan, STABLE, AOPSUser, Gym Socks!, OM
Abstain (1): DEG
Yet to Vote (1): Leru
Do Not Ban (5): Potatochan, STABLE, AOPSUser, Gym Socks!, OM
Abstain (1): DEG
Yet to Vote (1): Leru