Having played the SS 1v1 tier for quite a while now, I find myself wanting to bring up the concept of sleep again and sharing why I think the remaining sleep-inducing moves should be banned from the tier.
After reading all available posts discussing sleep-inducing moves concerning this and past generations, I feel I need to start by saying that sleep is not a broken element of this metagame but is uncompetitive in nature. With the current standing of mons that utilize sleep as a wincon in the metagame, there should effectively be no discussion about how one can/should run lum berry, taunt, encore, a metagross to counter Sylveon, a panzer tank to counter Venusaur, etc. Such strategies exist, are all plausible each to a certain extent and have been discussed in the past, however, they are not related to sleep’s uncompetitive nature. What is actually important to note though, is that the RNG element that governs sleep as a strategy in 1v1 reduces player interaction and by extension renders the attempt (of either party) to make informed decisions less impactful.
In scenarios where sleep-inducing moves are used, player interaction is undermined by definition, despite the possible existence of soft counters. This is tied to the duration of sleep being purely determined by RNG: there is a 33% chance that the mon will wake up after one turn of sleep. If it does not wake up after 1 turn, there is a 50% chance it will wake up after 2 turns of sleep. With such a random way to decide sleep turns, even if some form of counterplay exists, it may not even have a chance to be utilized if games end up being decided by rolling the dice, e.g 3-turn sleep, successfully hitting a sleep-inducing move on the turn the opposing mon wakes up. Furthermore, the most intuitive counterplay to the above (switching out) is not possible. Overall, the sleep user’s opponent often loses their share of control on the game.
While the above happen to showcase a negative effect on the sleep user’s opponent, I actually consider the fact that sleep doesn’t simply have a fixed effect on exclusively one of the associated players an even more important reason to ban it. Sleep has a volatile effect and in fact reduces the impact of skillful gameplay from either player.
The use of sleep creates situations where no player knows what the next sequence will look like. On one end we have the player whose mon has been put to sleep and has lost all control over the game until it wakes up. And, on the other end, the sleep user whose next correct move is correlated with whether the next turn is a wake-up turn. So, with every turn after the guaranteed sleep turn being a possible wake-up turn, every move performed by the sleep user has a chance to be the correct move (e.g. a successful attack on the last possible sleep turn) but also has a chance to be a wasted move (e.g a sleep powder on a sleep turn). Therefore, sleep not only takes away the game from the hands of the player who’s on the receiving end, but also gives rise to scenarios that require the other player to be in the right place at the right time. This is neither about probability management nor about a skill of being able to correctly predict a sequence.
While it can be argued that these are the associated risks with using sleep inducing moves (and this is not a point I’d disagree with), I strongly believe that eliminating scenarios where neither player has a correct way to play their following turns and scenarios where control is removed from a player is an action that will push towards rewarding players who showcase more skillful gameplay. The above reasons are enough to describe sleep-inducing moves as consistent with the definition for “Uncompetitive” given by tiering policy framework. I think it’s plausible to hold a vote on the sleep inducing moves that remain in the tier and I urge those voters who are willing to improve the metagame to vote for a ban of sleep-inducing moves regardless of this being a community or council vote.
After reading all available posts discussing sleep-inducing moves concerning this and past generations, I feel I need to start by saying that sleep is not a broken element of this metagame but is uncompetitive in nature. With the current standing of mons that utilize sleep as a wincon in the metagame, there should effectively be no discussion about how one can/should run lum berry, taunt, encore, a metagross to counter Sylveon, a panzer tank to counter Venusaur, etc. Such strategies exist, are all plausible each to a certain extent and have been discussed in the past, however, they are not related to sleep’s uncompetitive nature. What is actually important to note though, is that the RNG element that governs sleep as a strategy in 1v1 reduces player interaction and by extension renders the attempt (of either party) to make informed decisions less impactful.
In scenarios where sleep-inducing moves are used, player interaction is undermined by definition, despite the possible existence of soft counters. This is tied to the duration of sleep being purely determined by RNG: there is a 33% chance that the mon will wake up after one turn of sleep. If it does not wake up after 1 turn, there is a 50% chance it will wake up after 2 turns of sleep. With such a random way to decide sleep turns, even if some form of counterplay exists, it may not even have a chance to be utilized if games end up being decided by rolling the dice, e.g 3-turn sleep, successfully hitting a sleep-inducing move on the turn the opposing mon wakes up. Furthermore, the most intuitive counterplay to the above (switching out) is not possible. Overall, the sleep user’s opponent often loses their share of control on the game.
While the above happen to showcase a negative effect on the sleep user’s opponent, I actually consider the fact that sleep doesn’t simply have a fixed effect on exclusively one of the associated players an even more important reason to ban it. Sleep has a volatile effect and in fact reduces the impact of skillful gameplay from either player.
The use of sleep creates situations where no player knows what the next sequence will look like. On one end we have the player whose mon has been put to sleep and has lost all control over the game until it wakes up. And, on the other end, the sleep user whose next correct move is correlated with whether the next turn is a wake-up turn. So, with every turn after the guaranteed sleep turn being a possible wake-up turn, every move performed by the sleep user has a chance to be the correct move (e.g. a successful attack on the last possible sleep turn) but also has a chance to be a wasted move (e.g a sleep powder on a sleep turn). Therefore, sleep not only takes away the game from the hands of the player who’s on the receiving end, but also gives rise to scenarios that require the other player to be in the right place at the right time. This is neither about probability management nor about a skill of being able to correctly predict a sequence.
While it can be argued that these are the associated risks with using sleep inducing moves (and this is not a point I’d disagree with), I strongly believe that eliminating scenarios where neither player has a correct way to play their following turns and scenarios where control is removed from a player is an action that will push towards rewarding players who showcase more skillful gameplay. The above reasons are enough to describe sleep-inducing moves as consistent with the definition for “Uncompetitive” given by tiering policy framework. I think it’s plausible to hold a vote on the sleep inducing moves that remain in the tier and I urge those voters who are willing to improve the metagame to vote for a ban of sleep-inducing moves regardless of this being a community or council vote.
Charizard-Mega-X
Gardevoir-Mega
Metagross-Mega
Victini
Altaria-Mega
Greninja
Gyarados-Mega
Manaphy
Mawile-Mega
Heatran
Kyurem-Black
Mew
Porygon-Z
Sableye-Mega
Venusaur-Mega
Diancie-Mega
Dragonite
Garchomp
Genesect
Landorus-Therian
Lopunny-Mega
Medicham-Mega
Meloetta
Slowbro-Mega
Togekiss
Ampharos-Mega
Deoxys-Speed
Haxorus
Hoopa-Unbound
Jirachi
Serperior
Sylveon
Tyranitar-Mega
Volcanion
Aggron-Mega
Chansey
Diancie
Garchomp-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Heracross-Mega
Landorus
Latias-Mega
Latios-Mega
Latios
Registeel
Rhyperior
Magnezone
Sawk
Slaking
Terrakion
Volcarona
Aegislash
Ambipom
Archeops
Blastoise-Mega
Clefable
Cresselia
Crustle
Donphan
Empoleon
Entei
Gallade-Mega
Jumpluff
Pinsir-Mega
Porygon2
Talonflame
Vivillon
Whimsicott
Zapdos
Aggron
Alakazam-Mega
Audino-Mega
Azumarill
Thundurus-T
Ferrothorn
Golem
Lucario-Mega
Manectric-Mega
Pidgeot-Mega
Raikou
Smeargle
Camerupt-Mega
Celebi
Emboar
Gastrodon
Infernape
Keldeo
Heracross
Regirock
Rotom-Heat
Scizor-Mega
Swampert-Mega
Aurorus
Avalugg
Banette-Mega
Blissey
Conkeldurr
Darmanitan
Durant
Excadrill
Houndoom-Mega
Kingdra
Reuniclus
Salamence
Shedinja
Abomasnow-Mega
Florges
Klefki
Steelix-Mega
Thundurus to A+
Shaymin to A
Kyurem to A-
Gyarados to B+
Mienshao to B
Cobalion to C-
Tyranitar to A
Aerodactyl to B
Sableye to B
Tornadus-T to B-
Rotom-W to C+
Gengar to C
Hippowdon to C
Roserade to C-
Sceptile to C-
Scizor to C-
Staraptor to C-
Bronzong to D
Carracosta to D
Krookodile to D
Umbreon to D
Gallade to UR
Hitmonlee to UR
Miltank to UR
Riolu to UR
UR -> C
UR -> C+
D -> B-
Scrafty to A
Latias to A-
Hariyama to B-
Medicham to B-
Ninetales to B-
Venusaur to B-
Gardevoir to C-
Metagross to A
Suicune to A-
Chandelure to B-
Slowbro to C
Cinccino to C-
Virizion to C-
Alakazam to D
Escavalier to UR
Cacturne to UR
Cofagrigus to UR
Exeggutor to UR
Torterra to UR
