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Metagame 1v1 Old Gens
- Thread starter DEG
- Start date
GSC 1v1 Resources, Set Compendium, and Viability Rankings have all been updated! Big thanks to Murman for his help with this revamp.
hihi, I am here to bring some SS news to y'all
With OGPL being over and PL in roughly a month the SS council has decided to revisit sleep in SS. For those of you who weren't around last time, the final piece of tiering in SS as a current gen was sleep inducing moves which resulted in Hypnosis and Sing being banned. Fast forward to today and with SV having banned all sleep inducing moves the current SS council wants to take another look at sleep as opinions may have changed since the vote a year ago.
The Process:
Since sleep is so divisive and this being double jeopardy the SS council has opted to go with a suspect test based on tour results in the past year. Voters will be pulled from WC VI, OGPL I, and the 2022 1v1 Circuit Championships. There was discussion on whether to include PL VI or not but it was ultimately decided that since PL ended over a year ago it was best to leave it out. As per usual, each sleep inducing move will require a 60% supermajority vote in order to be banned. Below are the moves being voted on and the requirements to be eligible to vote.
Moves being voted on
Reqs
(If there are any inaccuracies with the voter list please let me know)
I will be sending out a smogon convo this Sunday to begin voting. Voting will last until Sunday, May 28th at 11:59PM GMT -4. With all that out of the way I wanted to open up discussion now before voting begins to give people time to post thoughts if they wanted.
With OGPL being over and PL in roughly a month the SS council has decided to revisit sleep in SS. For those of you who weren't around last time, the final piece of tiering in SS as a current gen was sleep inducing moves which resulted in Hypnosis and Sing being banned. Fast forward to today and with SV having banned all sleep inducing moves the current SS council wants to take another look at sleep as opinions may have changed since the vote a year ago.
The Process:
Since sleep is so divisive and this being double jeopardy the SS council has opted to go with a suspect test based on tour results in the past year. Voters will be pulled from WC VI, OGPL I, and the 2022 1v1 Circuit Championships. There was discussion on whether to include PL VI or not but it was ultimately decided that since PL ended over a year ago it was best to leave it out. As per usual, each sleep inducing move will require a 60% supermajority vote in order to be banned. Below are the moves being voted on and the requirements to be eligible to vote.
Moves being voted on
Code:
- Yawn
- Sleep Powder
- Lovely Kiss
- SporeReqs
Code:
- 2022 1v1 Circuit Championship qualifiers
- Played at least 3 games in WC VI and got 2+ wins
- Played at least 3 games in OGPL I and got 2+ winsNalei (5-2 in WC VI)
smely socks (5-0 in WC VI, Champs)
abd1710 (3-1 in WC VI)
Close (3-0 in WC VI, Champs)
D2TheW (3-0 in WC VI)
crow crumbs (2-3 in WC VI)
Rellia (2-3 in WC VI)
Aliss (2-2 in WC VI)
DEG (2-2 in WC VI, Champs)
Nick (2-2 in WC VI, Champs)
Waylaid (2-2 in WC VI)
Adam3560 (2-1 in WC VI)
ncalathes (2-1 in WC VI)
Potatochan (Champs, 4-0 in OGPL I)
bo_bobson27 (3-2 in OGPL I)
DenisTheMenace (3-2 in OGPL I)
Justdelemon (Champs, 3-3 in OGPL I)
Here Comes Team Charm! (2-3 in OGPL I)
XSTATIC COLD (Champs)
Jamez (Champs)
PG is PG (Champs)
Tom1535 (Champs)
Boat (Champs)
Golden009 (Champs)
bored_glitch (4-0 in OGPL I)
XanderUrBoi (5-2 in OGPL I)
gorilaa (3-1 in OGPL I)
smely socks (5-0 in WC VI, Champs)
abd1710 (3-1 in WC VI)
Close (3-0 in WC VI, Champs)
D2TheW (3-0 in WC VI)
crow crumbs (2-3 in WC VI)
Rellia (2-3 in WC VI)
Aliss (2-2 in WC VI)
DEG (2-2 in WC VI, Champs)
Nick (2-2 in WC VI, Champs)
Waylaid (2-2 in WC VI)
Adam3560 (2-1 in WC VI)
ncalathes (2-1 in WC VI)
Potatochan (Champs, 4-0 in OGPL I)
bo_bobson27 (3-2 in OGPL I)
DenisTheMenace (3-2 in OGPL I)
Justdelemon (Champs, 3-3 in OGPL I)
Here Comes Team Charm! (2-3 in OGPL I)
XSTATIC COLD (Champs)
Jamez (Champs)
PG is PG (Champs)
Tom1535 (Champs)
Boat (Champs)
Golden009 (Champs)
bored_glitch (4-0 in OGPL I)
XanderUrBoi (5-2 in OGPL I)
gorilaa (3-1 in OGPL I)
I will be sending out a smogon convo this Sunday to begin voting. Voting will last until Sunday, May 28th at 11:59PM GMT -4. With all that out of the way I wanted to open up discussion now before voting begins to give people time to post thoughts if they wanted.
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Can’t believe I have to actually make this post but the exclusion of using PL as qualifiers is wrong for multiple reasons and makes this suspect not only disingenuous it also if not corrected leads to a loss in trust of an SS council’s decision making.
Firstly, for a group of people who use appeals to tradition to validate all manners of bad decisions and yet in this case it seems pertinent to exclude the most competitive tournament from allowing qualification for this suspect test. However, this exclusion is unjustified not solely because of this fact, instead it should be taken into account that an inherently less competitive tournament, in OGPL, is eligibility for qualification and comparing these two tournaments as to how someone who went negative in OGPL is seen as more preferable of a voter than someone who went positive in the more difficult PL tour.
Considering that even after searching for clarification multiple times about a real reason to exclude PL and the SS council having 0 transparency and ignoring such requests is a direct violation of their express purpose. The sole “reasoning” they have given with regards to PL being excluded is the fact that it has been over a year since PL started. Not only does the fact that the timing of PL and the delay of the suspect should hold no weight on the qualifications of the tour, it is also disingenuous to talk about the start of a 7+ week tour instead of the end of that tour for obvious reasons.
Directly answering one of the points of the opposition that the “metagame has changed so much” as to warrant the exclusion of PL and that the players there would have no knowledge of the current metagame. Aside from the fact this is a clear case of curating the voters where instead of using unbiased qualifiers, the council seems to have looked at potential qualifier, seen if these players selected would be “valid voters” in the biased eyes of the council, and then decided accordingly if these tours/records should be qualifiers for eligibility which is so absurd and biased it speaks volumes that this alone doesn’t uproot the entire legitimacy of the suspect but considering this post’s length it’s clear that this is just a part of an extensive problem.
Additionally, the idea that the metagame changed so much as to invalidate PL as a qualifying tour would imply that a recent uptick in sleep would be found in OGPL stats. Let me preface this that I might have made some minor mistake in my calculation but this will only shift the percentages up or down by an insignificant amount so any “gotcha you’re off by 0.1%” arguments are in bad faith and should be ignored. The highest uses of any singular potential sleep user is Sylveon who had 10 uses overall the entire tour, with a low likelihood that all of these were Yawn to begin with. The next, more relevant sleep user in my eyes is Venusaur with 8 total uses who is known moreso for its sleep and can be said with greater confidence that all or the majority of those 8 uses were sleep based movesets. Overall of all pokemon who have the ability to run a sleep move this comes out to 10 sylveon 8 venusaur 3 Lilligant 1 Roserade 1 Butterfree and 1 Ludicolo. This totals up to 24 total potential sleep users brought to this tour with the actual number being significantly less as I do not believe all 10 sylveon are yawn sylveon. Compare this with the 965 or so total pokemon brought in ss during OGPL (I do realize this number is not divisible by 3 so I believe the error on my part is such that I missed or added 1 or 2 pokemon) which comes to a measly 2.48% of the metagame potentially using sleep. This clearly shows that the recent suspect test was not initialized because of recent metagame changes but instead individuals bringing up their concerns, most notably, the post on April 18 by Ncalathes in this thread.
The issues with this becomes apparent very quickly. This post was made significantly after OGPL had started which as I have mentioned previously means that this post which I believed sparked the conversation around a sleep suspect had full access to the OGPL stats and yet deemed that sleep was an issue, which therefore means that the “change in the metagame” is not a measurable or quantifiable one but it is a change of opinion. This means that excluding PL is completely in the wrong as someone only has to follow SS “theorycrafting” (this isn’t the word I’m looking for but I can’t find a more suitable one but I hope my sentiment gets across) and be an active part of conversation to “see” the metagame change. Therefore the length of time between playing SS holds no grounds onto the qualification of PL as an eligibility determiner.
Finally, as more of an addendum, it’s also wrong to vote on all of these matters in the same way because Yawn works fundamentally different then every other form of legal sleep and is just disingenuous to lump these all together. I really hope that SS council doesn’t decide to be deadset in their ways and has the ability to amend and fix the mistakes they have made regarding this suspect.
Firstly, for a group of people who use appeals to tradition to validate all manners of bad decisions and yet in this case it seems pertinent to exclude the most competitive tournament from allowing qualification for this suspect test. However, this exclusion is unjustified not solely because of this fact, instead it should be taken into account that an inherently less competitive tournament, in OGPL, is eligibility for qualification and comparing these two tournaments as to how someone who went negative in OGPL is seen as more preferable of a voter than someone who went positive in the more difficult PL tour.
Considering that even after searching for clarification multiple times about a real reason to exclude PL and the SS council having 0 transparency and ignoring such requests is a direct violation of their express purpose. The sole “reasoning” they have given with regards to PL being excluded is the fact that it has been over a year since PL started. Not only does the fact that the timing of PL and the delay of the suspect should hold no weight on the qualifications of the tour, it is also disingenuous to talk about the start of a 7+ week tour instead of the end of that tour for obvious reasons.
Directly answering one of the points of the opposition that the “metagame has changed so much” as to warrant the exclusion of PL and that the players there would have no knowledge of the current metagame. Aside from the fact this is a clear case of curating the voters where instead of using unbiased qualifiers, the council seems to have looked at potential qualifier, seen if these players selected would be “valid voters” in the biased eyes of the council, and then decided accordingly if these tours/records should be qualifiers for eligibility which is so absurd and biased it speaks volumes that this alone doesn’t uproot the entire legitimacy of the suspect but considering this post’s length it’s clear that this is just a part of an extensive problem.
Additionally, the idea that the metagame changed so much as to invalidate PL as a qualifying tour would imply that a recent uptick in sleep would be found in OGPL stats. Let me preface this that I might have made some minor mistake in my calculation but this will only shift the percentages up or down by an insignificant amount so any “gotcha you’re off by 0.1%” arguments are in bad faith and should be ignored. The highest uses of any singular potential sleep user is Sylveon who had 10 uses overall the entire tour, with a low likelihood that all of these were Yawn to begin with. The next, more relevant sleep user in my eyes is Venusaur with 8 total uses who is known moreso for its sleep and can be said with greater confidence that all or the majority of those 8 uses were sleep based movesets. Overall of all pokemon who have the ability to run a sleep move this comes out to 10 sylveon 8 venusaur 3 Lilligant 1 Roserade 1 Butterfree and 1 Ludicolo. This totals up to 24 total potential sleep users brought to this tour with the actual number being significantly less as I do not believe all 10 sylveon are yawn sylveon. Compare this with the 965 or so total pokemon brought in ss during OGPL (I do realize this number is not divisible by 3 so I believe the error on my part is such that I missed or added 1 or 2 pokemon) which comes to a measly 2.48% of the metagame potentially using sleep. This clearly shows that the recent suspect test was not initialized because of recent metagame changes but instead individuals bringing up their concerns, most notably, the post on April 18 by Ncalathes in this thread.
The issues with this becomes apparent very quickly. This post was made significantly after OGPL had started which as I have mentioned previously means that this post which I believed sparked the conversation around a sleep suspect had full access to the OGPL stats and yet deemed that sleep was an issue, which therefore means that the “change in the metagame” is not a measurable or quantifiable one but it is a change of opinion. This means that excluding PL is completely in the wrong as someone only has to follow SS “theorycrafting” (this isn’t the word I’m looking for but I can’t find a more suitable one but I hope my sentiment gets across) and be an active part of conversation to “see” the metagame change. Therefore the length of time between playing SS holds no grounds onto the qualification of PL as an eligibility determiner.
Finally, as more of an addendum, it’s also wrong to vote on all of these matters in the same way because Yawn works fundamentally different then every other form of legal sleep and is just disingenuous to lump these all together. I really hope that SS council doesn’t decide to be deadset in their ways and has the ability to amend and fix the mistakes they have made regarding this suspect.
Is this suspect a joke? This is such a random thing to be bringing up now. It's not exactly a pressing issue in ss 1v1. The meta is good and sleep doesn't need to be suspected for no reason. What's the point of calling a random irrelevant suspect except to just flex your muscles.
Sleeps place in a meta should be viewed on a case-by-case basis, not just having one judgment apply to everything. Uncompetitiveness goes both ways. Venu has like a 17% chance to lose for no reason due to missing sleep powder (as a no-bs speed trap)(if it wins any matchups off of sleep turns, the other mon isn't really a true counter eg. metagross). This is the risk you take running these sets and is a part of 1v1. If there was no luck involved in 1v1, the tier would be boring as shit. (subjectively)
Anyway feel free to respond to me with a 10 page essay trying to give factual reasoning on why sleep should be banned DEG cause people seem to take your very biased opinion as fact most of the time.
edit: removed flagrant remarks sorry I was just frustrated
Sleeps place in a meta should be viewed on a case-by-case basis, not just having one judgment apply to everything. Uncompetitiveness goes both ways. Venu has like a 17% chance to lose for no reason due to missing sleep powder (as a no-bs speed trap)(if it wins any matchups off of sleep turns, the other mon isn't really a true counter eg. metagross). This is the risk you take running these sets and is a part of 1v1. If there was no luck involved in 1v1, the tier would be boring as shit. (subjectively)
Anyway feel free to respond to me with a 10 page essay trying to give factual reasoning on why sleep should be banned DEG cause people seem to take your very biased opinion as fact most of the time.
edit: removed flagrant remarks sorry I was just frustrated
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Excluding unmons, the meta has Yawn Sylveon, Yawn Swampert, Sleep Powder Venu, and maybe Sleep Powder Roserade if you want to stretch the definition of unmon.
Two of these are straightforward speed traps that do not depend on sleep turns for the vast majority of their matchups, and whose presence enriches the tier in offering a novel strategy. The Yawn users do rely on RNG in significant matchups (sylveon vs goodra, swampert vs most regidrago), but show remarkably little ability to overcome counters to their other sets. I don't think it's surprising to see sleep usage quite low, nor do I think yawn sylveon or swampert are by any means the best sets of these pokemon. The meta has a number of powerful breakers that invalidate sleep strategies by OHKOing these users, as well as resists and stallmons that can comfortably outpace them, and good builders should not struggle to accommodate checks and counters to the sleep users.
Sleep represents a RNG-based element in the metagame, but it is the task of the council and playerbase to decide when RNG requires tiering action. I do not think sleep in SS rises to that level currently. Focus Blast causes RNG, custap 50/50s cause RNG, Thunder Wave causes RNG, but we as a community have little to no interest in banning any, and I think that's the right call. I do not think a blanket ban of the leftover sleep moves would be warranted, and I do not think it would benefit the meta, so I will be voting DNB across the board and encourage others to do the same. This was my position on the previous sleep suspect, and this remains my position today.
Thank you for reading this, Charm out.
Two of these are straightforward speed traps that do not depend on sleep turns for the vast majority of their matchups, and whose presence enriches the tier in offering a novel strategy. The Yawn users do rely on RNG in significant matchups (sylveon vs goodra, swampert vs most regidrago), but show remarkably little ability to overcome counters to their other sets. I don't think it's surprising to see sleep usage quite low, nor do I think yawn sylveon or swampert are by any means the best sets of these pokemon. The meta has a number of powerful breakers that invalidate sleep strategies by OHKOing these users, as well as resists and stallmons that can comfortably outpace them, and good builders should not struggle to accommodate checks and counters to the sleep users.
Sleep represents a RNG-based element in the metagame, but it is the task of the council and playerbase to decide when RNG requires tiering action. I do not think sleep in SS rises to that level currently. Focus Blast causes RNG, custap 50/50s cause RNG, Thunder Wave causes RNG, but we as a community have little to no interest in banning any, and I think that's the right call. I do not think a blanket ban of the leftover sleep moves would be warranted, and I do not think it would benefit the meta, so I will be voting DNB across the board and encourage others to do the same. This was my position on the previous sleep suspect, and this remains my position today.
Thank you for reading this, Charm out.
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Quick ADV update
Adam3560 has resigned from the ADV council. Thanks for your contributions, man. At the same time, SuperMemeBroz has joined the council. Honestly he probably should have been there already, being one of the most active and enthusiastic ADV players. Glad to have him on board.
We're working on vr and sets comp updates, should be out some time in like the next month or whatever.
Adam3560 has resigned from the ADV council. Thanks for your contributions, man. At the same time, SuperMemeBroz has joined the council. Honestly he probably should have been there already, being one of the most active and enthusiastic ADV players. Glad to have him on board.
We're working on vr and sets comp updates, should be out some time in like the next month or whatever.
At this point in the vote the outcome cannot be changed even if the remaining voters all voted ban so Yawn, Sleep Powder, Spore, and Lovely Kiss will all remain unbanned in SS 1v1. Thank you to everyone who took the time to vote and we hope to see some of you in PL next month.
Each move needed at least 17 ban votes to reach the 60% supermajority threshold (11 to remain unbanned).
Gym Socks! has left the BW Council.
Thanks for all your work, and hope you do well in your future endeavours.
The Viability Rankings have changed as a result. These changes will be reflected on the BW 1v1 OP soon.
Conkeldurr to A+
Porygon-Z to A+
Thundurus to A+
Shaymin to A
Kyurem to A-
Meloetta to A-
Gyarados to B+
Mienshao to B
Clefable to C+
Darmanitan to C+
Cobalion to C-
Latios to A
Tyranitar to A
Aerodactyl to B
Magnezone to B
Sableye to B
Chansey to B-
Tornadus-T to B-
Rotom-W to C+
Blissey to C
Durant to C
Gengar to C
Gastrodon to C
Hippowdon to C
Reuniclus to C-
Roserade to C-
Sceptile to C-
Scizor to C-
Staraptor to C-
Bronzong to D
Carracosta to D
Krookodile to D
Umbreon to D
Azumarill to UR
Excadrill to UR
Gallade to UR
Hitmonlee to UR
Miltank to UR
Riolu to UR
Thanks for all your work, and hope you do well in your future endeavours.
The Viability Rankings have changed as a result. These changes will be reflected on the BW 1v1 OP soon.
Conkeldurr to A+ Porygon-Z to A+ Thundurus to A+ Shaymin to A Kyurem to A- Meloetta to A- Gyarados to B+ Mienshao to B Clefable to C+ Darmanitan to C+ Cobalion to C- Latios to A Tyranitar to A Aerodactyl to B Magnezone to B Sableye to B Chansey to B- Tornadus-T to B- Rotom-W to C+ Blissey to C Durant to C Gengar to C Gastrodon to C Hippowdon to C Reuniclus to C- Roserade to C- Sceptile to C- Scizor to C- Staraptor to C- Bronzong to D Carracosta to D Krookodile to D Umbreon to D Azumarill to UR Excadrill to UR Gallade to UR Hitmonlee to UR Miltank to UR Riolu to UR
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ORAS SLEEP POWDER SUSPECT TEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No fancy talking ORAS council has decided to suspect test Sleep Powder. Insert cheese w/ mega venu in OGPL and usual cheese. If you really care about a reasoning I can give you one later but I have to post this today lmao.
People automatically were granted reqs for the following:
Initial voter list: DEG DezShizzels Elo Bandit XSTATIC COLD Inkreativ 187 Fan Mubs Synonimous LittEleven DripLegend torterraxx PA crying
If I missed anyone lmk.
Additionally, we will be hosting live tours for this suspect will be emulating those of the main 1v1 Live tournament, same as ORAS Zard, with each tournament taking place on the Smogtours server, as well as having the same scheme for dates and times, being:
I will open voting at a later date.
No fancy talking ORAS council has decided to suspect test Sleep Powder. Insert cheese w/ mega venu in OGPL and usual cheese. If you really care about a reasoning I can give you one later but I have to post this today lmao.
People automatically were granted reqs for the following:
- Council member OR
- ORAS Cup Finalists OR
- Played at least 3 series of ORAS in OGPL, and won at least two games OR
- Played at least 3 series of ORAS in WC, and won at least two games
Initial voter list: DEG DezShizzels Elo Bandit XSTATIC COLD Inkreativ 187 Fan Mubs Synonimous LittEleven DripLegend torterraxx PA crying
If I missed anyone lmk.
Additionally, we will be hosting live tours for this suspect will be emulating those of the main 1v1 Live tournament, same as ORAS Zard, with each tournament taking place on the Smogtours server, as well as having the same scheme for dates and times, being:
- Saturday, June 10th
- 6 PM GMT+0 (EU, USA, maybe India)
- 11:59 PM GMT+0 (OCE, EU, USA)
- Sunday, June 11th:
- 4 PM GMT+0 (semi-USA, EU, India)
- 10 PM GMT+0 (EU, USA)
- Saturday, June 17th:
- 6 PM GMT+0 (EU, USA, maybe India)
- 11:59 PM GMT+0 (OCE, EU, USA)
- Sunday, June 18th:
- 4 PM GMT+0 (semi-USA, EU, India)
- 10 PM GMT+0 (EU, USA)
I will open voting at a later date.
Very real adv post!!1
https://pokepast.es/d543bd0936d17348 epic teams I made, all the sets I also made as well
vr noms
UR -> C
MUK'D (Muk) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 172 HP / 216 Atk / 72 SpD / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Brick Break
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ground]
One of our helpers in our very secret building gc loved muk so I wanted to build around that. I was gonna use return muk but giraffe emoji guy was worried about really bulky pp stall raikou so we went hp ground. Spdef was for petaya thunder raikou iirc and some physical benchmark that I don’t remember. Has a cool niche for having high attack+decent movepool for scizor/skarm and ttar with flamethrower n brick break. Move it to C rank
UR -> C+
LANTURNT (Lanturn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 200 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Amnesia
Was building around registeel and wanted a water that beat waters, which was gonna be hp electric vap but the opponent I built for spammed fwg (worst core) which always uses vap. Lanturn solved that issue+being a cool mon, it has a ton of hp which lets it live pert and 2hko. U can use surf but pump was for molt rolls, and lefties are also for hp grass molt if u miss pump. Last move is flexible but u don’t have many options anyways. C+ rank mon esp since u can run physical to beat raikou
D -> B-
BIRD (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drill Peck
- Counter
- Taunt
- Toxic
Skarmory is super underrated if u know your matchups. Just a great physical answer in general, especially since u beat tauros while being a flying type that beats stuff like grasses grounds etc. I went with max speed to maybe suprise people but u can always go more bulky. I used it to great sucess and it’s a super good glue mon. Overall very good, B- imo
Would make more noms or just a biggerpost but adv is dead, here’s my favorite solid/gimmicky teams that I built:
https://pokepast.es/05d99d2080fc973e
Probably the best team I built this tour, scope lens raikou is still a beast since half of the adv playerbase have not advanced with le meta, toxic tauros just destroys bad players (which is why we spammed it week 1) and machamp beats everything else + flamethrower is funny. Really solid matchup spread as well.
https://pokepast.es/8e1bb764b40b01d1
Second best team, basic rest vap+dd dnite core with a cool band hera set. Just really solid in general + is better than giraffe man’s sample team so a w for me
https://pokepast.es/7197dd79dc28dd81
My favorite team so far, has 3 really bad mons and works out to be a really good team. The crazy fast rhydon is for metagross, tyranitar and other things and just kills tons of stuff. Regice is a weird glue mon that has a goofy matchup list and skarm is epic at fishing for 3-0s.
https://pokepast.es/01fe64fd595b35f4
Very epic team, band celebi is very funny and this set always beats vap (most band sets do not since they run ada, this set is hasty tho) ancient power catches molt and zard and hp ground for raikou since we don’t 3hko with return anymore. Messiah mence returns which originally had quirky as the nature but that proved to be unoptimal so yeah, very cool and real set. Blizzard blissey is a cool tech for dnite and some mence.
https://pokepast.es/642579cfe50fa663
idk why but I really like this team, ttar fell off hard since anything could just run hp fighting and beat u, but since now there’s barely any ttars left I think it could see a small resurgence. This dd set beats starmie without hp bug and other stuff like raikou which is very nice. The molt set is from giraffe man which lives band tauros and always beats it with agility into overheat. Petaya sceptile is also nice for suprising some mons + it’s the first time I’ve used that set.
there was some other epic teams like hp fighting arc, the muk team, the lanturn team and the dodrio + meganium + regirock team but yeah, this tour was really goofy since half of the players didn’t know how to play/haven’t played in 2 years, but I still enjoyed it because I got to play mrext+hungry who are actually good players. also i did not want to build this tour but I had to build 90% of the adv teams :/. Hopefully adv will be revived…
https://pokepast.es/d543bd0936d17348 epic teams I made, all the sets I also made as well
vr noms
UR -> CMUK'D (Muk) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 172 HP / 216 Atk / 72 SpD / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Brick Break
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ground]
One of our helpers in our very secret building gc loved muk so I wanted to build around that. I was gonna use return muk but giraffe emoji guy was worried about really bulky pp stall raikou so we went hp ground. Spdef was for petaya thunder raikou iirc and some physical benchmark that I don’t remember. Has a cool niche for having high attack+decent movepool for scizor/skarm and ttar with flamethrower n brick break. Move it to C rank
UR -> C+LANTURNT (Lanturn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 200 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Amnesia
Was building around registeel and wanted a water that beat waters, which was gonna be hp electric vap but the opponent I built for spammed fwg (worst core) which always uses vap. Lanturn solved that issue+being a cool mon, it has a ton of hp which lets it live pert and 2hko. U can use surf but pump was for molt rolls, and lefties are also for hp grass molt if u miss pump. Last move is flexible but u don’t have many options anyways. C+ rank mon esp since u can run physical to beat raikou
D -> B-BIRD (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drill Peck
- Counter
- Taunt
- Toxic
Skarmory is super underrated if u know your matchups. Just a great physical answer in general, especially since u beat tauros while being a flying type that beats stuff like grasses grounds etc. I went with max speed to maybe suprise people but u can always go more bulky. I used it to great sucess and it’s a super good glue mon. Overall very good, B- imo
Would make more noms or just a biggerpost but adv is dead, here’s my favorite solid/gimmicky teams that I built:
https://pokepast.es/05d99d2080fc973e
Probably the best team I built this tour, scope lens raikou is still a beast since half of the adv playerbase have not advanced with le meta, toxic tauros just destroys bad players (which is why we spammed it week 1) and machamp beats everything else + flamethrower is funny. Really solid matchup spread as well.
https://pokepast.es/8e1bb764b40b01d1
Second best team, basic rest vap+dd dnite core with a cool band hera set. Just really solid in general + is better than giraffe man’s sample team so a w for me
https://pokepast.es/7197dd79dc28dd81
My favorite team so far, has 3 really bad mons and works out to be a really good team. The crazy fast rhydon is for metagross, tyranitar and other things and just kills tons of stuff. Regice is a weird glue mon that has a goofy matchup list and skarm is epic at fishing for 3-0s.
https://pokepast.es/01fe64fd595b35f4
Very epic team, band celebi is very funny and this set always beats vap (most band sets do not since they run ada, this set is hasty tho) ancient power catches molt and zard and hp ground for raikou since we don’t 3hko with return anymore. Messiah mence returns which originally had quirky as the nature but that proved to be unoptimal so yeah, very cool and real set. Blizzard blissey is a cool tech for dnite and some mence.
https://pokepast.es/642579cfe50fa663
idk why but I really like this team, ttar fell off hard since anything could just run hp fighting and beat u, but since now there’s barely any ttars left I think it could see a small resurgence. This dd set beats starmie without hp bug and other stuff like raikou which is very nice. The molt set is from giraffe man which lives band tauros and always beats it with agility into overheat. Petaya sceptile is also nice for suprising some mons + it’s the first time I’ve used that set.
there was some other epic teams like hp fighting arc, the muk team, the lanturn team and the dodrio + meganium + regirock team but yeah, this tour was really goofy since half of the players didn’t know how to play/haven’t played in 2 years, but I still enjoyed it because I got to play mrext+hungry who are actually good players. also i did not want to build this tour but I had to build 90% of the adv teams :/. Hopefully adv will be revived…
@ Giraffe man thanks for kicking me out of the gc 6 times and hating on me the entire time. You also helped with some matchups and team help which was very helpful. Overall a super enjoyable experience to be with you until
Justdelemon thanks for calling every set and team I made bad and reporting on me like 4 times for no reason. Seriously though it was pretty fun working with you and I hope we can work together again
Eeveekid10 yooooo goat!!! Can’t actually believed u used my bad teams and actually won with them LOL But it was fun building for you and hope we can team up again in 500 years
+ all the adv goats for playing and goated teammates for carrying (you know who u are)
Justdelemon thanks for calling every set and team I made bad and reporting on me like 4 times for no reason. Seriously though it was pretty fun working with you and I hope we can work together again
Eeveekid10 yooooo goat!!! Can’t actually believed u used my bad teams and actually won with them LOL But it was fun building for you and hope we can team up again in 500 years
+ all the adv goats for playing and goated teammates for carrying (you know who u are)
Although not everyone has voted, the missing votes will not affect the outcome of the suspect test.
DEG (Council)
187 Fan (Council)
Elo Bandit (Council)
Mubs (Council)
DezShizzels (Council)
Inkreativ (Council)
XSTATIC COLD (Council)
torterraxx (Council)
crying (ORAS Cup Finalist)
LittEleven (OGPL)
PA (OGPL)
DripLegend (OGPL)
Synonimous (WC)
Lucario (Live Suspect)
Justdelemon (Live Suspect)
Marshme1to (Live Suspect)
NTG Cuz IDK (Live Suspect)
Sanshokuinsumireko (Live Suspect)
187 Fan (Council)
Elo Bandit (Council)
Mubs (Council)
DezShizzels (Council)
Inkreativ (Council)
XSTATIC COLD (Council)
torterraxx (Council)
crying (ORAS Cup Finalist)
LittEleven (OGPL)
PA (OGPL)
DripLegend (OGPL)
Synonimous (WC)
Lucario (Live Suspect)
Justdelemon (Live Suspect)
Marshme1to (Live Suspect)
NTG Cuz IDK (Live Suspect)
Sanshokuinsumireko (Live Suspect)
Ban: 11 votes
Do Not Ban: 3 votes
Can we get av lando on the sm setcomp/expanded setcomp?
This is my personal set which I built, though its probably pretty schizo.
Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Level: 100
Adamant Nature
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 100 Def / 52 SpD / 16 Spe
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Outrage
- Iron Tail / Hidden Power [Ice] / Sludge Bomb / Bulldoze
Iron tail for garde, hp ice for lando, sludge bomb for bulu whims, bullzone for (something)
Rock tomb into outrage kills dnite (standards ones atleast, loses to icium)
We beat the zards reliably, wisp zard as well though there will always be a question of mega evolving or not
Probably loses to some mons idk
This is my personal set which I built, though its probably pretty schizo.
Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Level: 100
Adamant Nature
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 100 Def / 52 SpD / 16 Spe
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Outrage
- Iron Tail / Hidden Power [Ice] / Sludge Bomb / Bulldoze
Iron tail for garde, hp ice for lando, sludge bomb for bulu whims, bullzone for (something)
Rock tomb into outrage kills dnite (standards ones atleast, loses to icium)
We beat the zards reliably, wisp zard as well though there will always be a question of mega evolving or not
Probably loses to some mons idk
Welcome SuperMemeBroz and Taka to BW council! neomon and Lumii will also be joining us temporarily to vote on a new post-PL VR, which we will start voting on soon.
Go play the BW 1v1 ladder and keep an eye out for the LT starting tomorrow. I'm also planning an update for BW's sets compendium - if you want to help with that lmk. Any help, whether it's one set or several dozen, is appreciated
Go play the BW 1v1 ladder and keep an eye out for the LT starting tomorrow. I'm also planning an update for BW's sets compendium - if you want to help with that lmk. Any help, whether it's one set or several dozen, is appreciated
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Got some more BW announcements:
- Kaif has rejoined the council!
- We are also interested in your thoughts about the metagame, if you have the time to fill out this form please do
- The VR will be updated very soon with votes all of the new councilmembers (hopefully in the next few days)
- Kaif has rejoined the council!
- We are also interested in your thoughts about the metagame, if you have the time to fill out this form please do
- The VR will be updated very soon with votes all of the new councilmembers (hopefully in the next few days)
Some ORAS council announcements:
- Congratulations to LittEleven, our newest council member! (yes I have to announce this because deg is lazy)
- I hope you all enjoyed PL VII! Here's a link to express your thoughts on the ORAS 1v1 Metagame.
- We've updated our official Set Compendium to be up-to-date with the current format! Here's the new ORAS Set Compendium 3.0!
- VR updates soon!
- Congratulations to LittEleven, our newest council member! (yes I have to announce this because deg is lazy)
- I hope you all enjoyed PL VII! Here's a link to express your thoughts on the ORAS 1v1 Metagame.
- We've updated our official Set Compendium to be up-to-date with the current format! Here's the new ORAS Set Compendium 3.0!
- VR updates soon!
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BW 1v1 VR changes (manually collected by Lumii)
The sheet where voting happens is now publicly viewable
Genesect to S-
Manaphy to S-
Meloetta to A
Scrafty to A
Zapdos to A
Latias to A-
Magnezone to B+
Mienshao to B+
Ferrothorn to B
Clefable to B-
Golem to B-
Hariyama to B-
Infernape to B-
Medicham to B-
Ninetales to B-
Venusaur to B-
Gengar to C+
Moltres to C+
Scizor to C
Carracosta to C-
Gardevoir to C-
Krookodile to C-
Emboar to D
Gallade to D
Riolu to D
Cresselia to A+
Volcarona to A+
Keldeo to A
Metagross to A
Porygon-Z to A
Suicune to A-
Landorus-T to B
Serperior to B
Aerodactyl to B-
Chandelure to B-
Sableye to B-
Slaking to B-
Archeops to C+
Darmanitan to C
Rotom-H to C
Salamence to C
Slowbro to C
Cinccino to C-
Virizion to C-
Alakazam to D
Cobalion to D
Roserade to D
Escavalier to UR
Cacturne to UR
Cofagrigus to UR
Exeggutor to UR
Torterra to UR
The sheet where voting happens is now publicly viewable
Genesect to S- Manaphy to S- Meloetta to A Scrafty to A Zapdos to A Latias to A- Magnezone to B+ Mienshao to B+ Ferrothorn to B Clefable to B- Golem to B- Hariyama to B- Infernape to B- Medicham to B- Ninetales to B- Venusaur to B- Gengar to C+ Moltres to C+ Scizor to C Carracosta to C- Gardevoir to C- Krookodile to C- Emboar to D Gallade to D Riolu to D Cresselia to A+ Volcarona to A+ Keldeo to A Metagross to A Porygon-Z to A Suicune to A- Landorus-T to B Serperior to B Aerodactyl to B- Chandelure to B- Sableye to B- Slaking to B- Archeops to C+ Darmanitan to C Rotom-H to C Salamence to C Slowbro to C Cinccino to C- Virizion to C- Alakazam to D Cobalion to D Roserade to D Escavalier to UR Cacturne to UR Cofagrigus to UR Exeggutor to UR Torterra to UR
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Good day, everyone! DPP 1v1 updates time!
Just so everyone knows, clerica was given me the reins as the DPP 1v1 leader; with that, while I do apologize as this is actually long overdue, I would also like to officially welcome stravench to the DPP 1v1 Council!
As of the moment, no changes will happen in the Viability Ranking and Sets Compendium (update may happen after the 1v1 Classic draws to a close); however, I would like to bring one key Pokemon up for potential tiering discourse, and this is no other than Jirachi.
For starters, this is the generation where Jirachi flourished in other top metagames such as DPP OU by virtue of the introduction of Iron Head and Zen Headbutt which, when boosted by Jirachi's Serene Grace, boosts flinching chances to gain the upper hand against the opposition. In this 1v1 realm, however, Jirachi had stiff competition to become one of the top threats until other Pokemon such as Snorlax, Togekiss, Machamp, and Shaymin got the banhammer.
Exhibit A: Top 10 Pokemon Usage in DPP 1v1 since the DPP 1v1 No Johns Tournament (Shaymin ban implemented) up until 1v1 OGPL I; Jirachi being the second most used Pokemon
Exhibit B: Top 10 Pokemon Usage in DPP 1v1 only in OGPL I; Jirachi being brought up the most by DPP 1v1 OGPL players.
Once the Shaymin ban in DPP 1v1 got implemented from the start of DPP 1v1 No Johns Tournament, Jirachi's usage skyrocketed, and the reason for such is that it became one of the top picks to deal with one of the metagame's greatest staples until now: Tyranitar, and more people playing this metagame through numerous avenues (mostly tours) are starting to appreciate that Pokemon being an increasingly top-tier metagame threat in itself due to the sole capability Jirachi brings that may eventually end up being uncompetitive, and that is cheesing its way to victory even with undesirable match-ups.
One fellow council member would argue that potentially banning Jirachi - another Tyranitar counter - would only lead to Tyranitar being highly centralized in the metagame (though I would counter that as there are more counters to Tyranitar than it is to Jirachi at the moment; a lot of people manage to tech their way to dealing with Tyranitar much better these days, I believe).
As the 1v1 Classic VII's DPP 1v1 Cup draws closer to the battle phase, at least there is another avenue where we can take another look at the DPP 1v1 metagame and check whether or not Jirachi deserves to at least be suspected publicly. We are open for opinions (especially non-council ones) regarding this affair; as such, fire them away!
Just so everyone knows, clerica was given me the reins as the DPP 1v1 leader; with that, while I do apologize as this is actually long overdue, I would also like to officially welcome stravench to the DPP 1v1 Council!
As of the moment, no changes will happen in the Viability Ranking and Sets Compendium (update may happen after the 1v1 Classic draws to a close); however, I would like to bring one key Pokemon up for potential tiering discourse, and this is no other than Jirachi.
For starters, this is the generation where Jirachi flourished in other top metagames such as DPP OU by virtue of the introduction of Iron Head and Zen Headbutt which, when boosted by Jirachi's Serene Grace, boosts flinching chances to gain the upper hand against the opposition. In this 1v1 realm, however, Jirachi had stiff competition to become one of the top threats until other Pokemon such as Snorlax, Togekiss, Machamp, and Shaymin got the banhammer.
Exhibit A: Top 10 Pokemon Usage in DPP 1v1 since the DPP 1v1 No Johns Tournament (Shaymin ban implemented) up until 1v1 OGPL I; Jirachi being the second most used Pokemon
Exhibit B: Top 10 Pokemon Usage in DPP 1v1 only in OGPL I; Jirachi being brought up the most by DPP 1v1 OGPL players.
Once the Shaymin ban in DPP 1v1 got implemented from the start of DPP 1v1 No Johns Tournament, Jirachi's usage skyrocketed, and the reason for such is that it became one of the top picks to deal with one of the metagame's greatest staples until now: Tyranitar, and more people playing this metagame through numerous avenues (mostly tours) are starting to appreciate that Pokemon being an increasingly top-tier metagame threat in itself due to the sole capability Jirachi brings that may eventually end up being uncompetitive, and that is cheesing its way to victory even with undesirable match-ups.
One fellow council member would argue that potentially banning Jirachi - another Tyranitar counter - would only lead to Tyranitar being highly centralized in the metagame (though I would counter that as there are more counters to Tyranitar than it is to Jirachi at the moment; a lot of people manage to tech their way to dealing with Tyranitar much better these days, I believe).
As the 1v1 Classic VII's DPP 1v1 Cup draws closer to the battle phase, at least there is another avenue where we can take another look at the DPP 1v1 metagame and check whether or not Jirachi deserves to at least be suspected publicly. We are open for opinions (especially non-council ones) regarding this affair; as such, fire them away!
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RBY 1v1 resources, set comps, and sample teams have been updated!
Big thanks to Murman for all his help and research.
Big thanks to Murman for all his help and research.
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ADV Update
Sets comp has been updated, most notably some Dusclops and Scizor sets were added. It's a very small update tho: https://pokepast.es/8f97839e0be942dd
S Rank
Raikou
S- Rank
Sceptile
A+ Rank
Blissey
Heracross
Marowak
Salamence
A Rank
Alakazam
Celebi
Kingdra
Metagross
Registeel
Swampert
Tauros
Vaporeon
A- Rank
Gyarados
Moltres
Regice
Starmie
Tyranitar
Ursaring
B+ Rank
Arcanine
Charizard
Entei
Hariyama
Jirachi
Ludicolo
Machamp
Walrein
B Rank
Aerodactyl
Armaldo
Blaziken
Gengar
Regirock
Scizor
Venusaur
B- Rank
Blastoise
Dodrio
Dusclops
Dragonite
Houndoom
Jumpluff
Medicham
C+ Rank
Cradily
Grumpig
Jolteon
Meganium
Milotic
Miltank
Typhlosion
C Rank
Articuno
Hitmontop
Porygon2
Shedinja
Skarmory
Slowbro
C- Rank
Claydol
Crobat
Flygon
Gardevoir
Illumise
Kangaskhan
Kecleon
Poliwrath
Rhydon
Scyther
Swalot
Vigoroth
Most of these shifts are basically just a result of the council changes, but a few are related to performance/usage in OGPL.
Rises
Sceptile: A+ -> S-
Celebi: A- -> A
Blaziken: B- -> B
Gengar: B- -> B
Scizor: B- -> B
Jumpluff: C+ -> B-
Jolteon: C -> C+
Typhlosion: C -> C+
Skarmory: C- -> C
Gardevoir: UR -> C-
Hitmontop: UR -> C
Drops
Charizard: A- -> B+
Dragonite: B -> B-
Kecleon: C - > C-
Jynx: C- -> UR
Steelix: C- -> UR
Wailord: C- -> UR
Wobbuffet: C- -> UR
RaikouS- Rank
SceptileA+ Rank
Blissey Heracross Marowak SalamenceA Rank
Alakazam Celebi Kingdra Metagross Registeel Swampert Tauros VaporeonA- Rank
Gyarados Moltres Regice Starmie Tyranitar UrsaringB+ Rank
Arcanine Charizard Entei Hariyama Jirachi Ludicolo Machamp WalreinB Rank
Aerodactyl Armaldo Blaziken Gengar Regirock Scizor VenusaurB- Rank
Blastoise Dodrio Dusclops Dragonite Houndoom Jumpluff MedichamC+ Rank
Cradily Grumpig Jolteon Meganium Milotic Miltank TyphlosionC Rank
Articuno Hitmontop Porygon2 Shedinja Skarmory SlowbroC- Rank
Claydol Crobat Flygon Gardevoir Illumise Kangaskhan Kecleon Poliwrath Rhydon Scyther Swalot VigorothMost of these shifts are basically just a result of the council changes, but a few are related to performance/usage in OGPL.
Rises
Sceptile: A+ -> S-
Celebi: A- -> A
Blaziken: B- -> B
Gengar: B- -> B
Scizor: B- -> B
Jumpluff: C+ -> B-
Jolteon: C -> C+
Typhlosion: C -> C+
Skarmory: C- -> C
Gardevoir: UR -> C-
Hitmontop: UR -> C
Drops
Charizard: A- -> B+
Dragonite: B -> B-
Kecleon: C - > C-
Jynx: C- -> UR
Steelix: C- -> UR
Wailord: C- -> UR
Wobbuffet: C- -> UR
And that's all I got. This will probably be the last ADV update in quite some time unless some crazy innovation occurs.
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Personal top 10 favorites + under/overrated from gens 2-8, minus dpp, will go more in-depth in ss because that's what people actually care about my opinion on. I encourage others to post these and like always, these are my favourites, not what I think is necessarily best.
SS:
Here's the main reason I made this post. SS is in a really weird state rn as a meta as can be seen in the voting sheet where every mon but fini and pult in the A+ tier have at least one S- vote and they all have one A vote which really shows how there really isn't a consensus best mon, infact, there isn't even a decisive top 5. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing and provides a different experience to building and playing the tier. I will yap on about teambuilding in a post later on so stay tuned.
1.
Okay this mon is incredible, it is insanely easy to use, immune to lots of common cheese with clear body and bullet punch shenanigans, it can run a wide variety of things to provide genuine useful mu's, the most notable of which being trick scarf which allows it to not only beat landorus-i/t, but also allows it to trick common stall counterplay a choice scarf. Unlike other mons, meta doesn't fall short in achieving what you want it to do at all, which goes to show how great this mon really is.
2.
It wouldn't be an ss list of mine without this guy. Shell smash is really good, loads of teams just don't beat it if it has the right item as it's surprisingly not restricted to just lum, but can also run mental herb for taunters/ aromatisse as well as white herb for things which try to rock tomb etc it as well as bswipe drago. Band is still a great set, but it does suck losing out on some nice ssmash mus. Great mon overall and fairly underrated all things considered.
3.
I'll go over this a bit more in the teambuilding post but overall, it has some really great traits. Its fairly versatile and can beat many things which dark and rock types struggle with which allows for great freedom in the builder.
4.
Extremely good, easy to build around, versatile, what is not to love. Yea its cheesable with custap etc but it can capitalise on this with zen mode sets very well.
5.
I think people are starting to see my vision on zarude being really good. Its standard sets are powerful, band annihilates fairies and common counterplay, and scarf beats volcarona and darm-g.
6.
This mon is extremely good and possesses extremely good traits to make it very spammable.
7.
This mon has fallen off a lot in most peoples mind but it's still togekiss lmao, extremely solid and always has good mus.
8.
This guy is very good, probably the best ground type. I like bulky but it can really run whatever it wants.
9.
Very good mus against the annoying high tiers like drago prim pz etc. Thats basically it.
10.
Great mon, lowkey insane mu spread between sap sipper and av band etc. My fav set is a stall set which I will not drop because I'm an annoying gatekeeper.
Underrated:
Overrated:
Yes i'm doing gsc lol, it's a really solid tier that gets unjustly bunched in with rby but is fairly competitive.
1.
While it is prone to cheese, it's really good at what it does and has a wide mu spread with some great options
2.
Starmie is seriously good, it beats most of the high rank mons and has options like sub to cheese hera
3.
Meta defining best mon not much to say just easy af to use
4.
This is where the general trend of good mons being high, ends. Quagsire is actually kind of insanely good for what it is, its curse amnesia set beats a wide variety of mons and overall its really fun to use
5.
Lowkey tanky asf and easily the best subseeder imo due to its access to encore and hp flying for heracross
6.
Due to it being a lot less bulky than clefable, it needs to get a lot luckier than clefable, however, can still beat just about everything that clefable can given you get the luck.
7.
Love this guy, mint rest is the truth
8.
Reflect is really good and this has pretty decent mus overall
9.
I don't think its worse than tauros lol, really cool and pretty good
10.
Somewhat techable and pretty great and fun
overrated:
underrated:
1.
While it is prone to cheese, it's really good at what it does and has a wide mu spread with some great options
2.
Starmie is seriously good, it beats most of the high rank mons and has options like sub to cheese hera
3.
Meta defining best mon not much to say just easy af to use
4.
This is where the general trend of good mons being high, ends. Quagsire is actually kind of insanely good for what it is, its curse amnesia set beats a wide variety of mons and overall its really fun to use
5.
Lowkey tanky asf and easily the best subseeder imo due to its access to encore and hp flying for heracross
6.
Due to it being a lot less bulky than clefable, it needs to get a lot luckier than clefable, however, can still beat just about everything that clefable can given you get the luck.
7.
Love this guy, mint rest is the truth
8.
Reflect is really good and this has pretty decent mus overall
9.
I don't think its worse than tauros lol, really cool and pretty good
10.
Somewhat techable and pretty great and fun
overrated:
underrated:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Somewhat biased by stuff I've used in money tour
1.
2.
I always beat charizard with this randomly l2p guys
3.
4.
5.
6.
shoota from money tour
7.
8.
9.
10.
Used it in money tour and its really fun to use in reg oras
1.
2.
I always beat charizard with this randomly l2p guys
3.
4.
5.
6.
shoota from money tour
7.
8.
9.
10.
Used it in money tour and its really fun to use in reg oras
1.
Fun mon to use can finesse so much and some ppl just don't use real counters
2.
Broken mon, i've been running scarf lately to catch random shit off guard
3.
Insane glue mon
4.
Beats all the best guys
5.
Easy click into anything and everything
6.
When I lost prim vs zygarde is when i realised I had been underestimating this thing a lot
7.
Nice to build around
8.
Opposite of nice to build around but its a menace
9.
Great mus
10.
Goated
Fun mon to use can finesse so much and some ppl just don't use real counters
2.
Broken mon, i've been running scarf lately to catch random shit off guard
3.
Insane glue mon
4.
Beats all the best guys
5.
Easy click into anything and everything
6.
When I lost prim vs zygarde is when i realised I had been underestimating this thing a lot
7.
Nice to build around
8.
Opposite of nice to build around but its a menace
9.
Great mus
10.
Goated
SS:
Here's the main reason I made this post. SS is in a really weird state rn as a meta as can be seen in the voting sheet where every mon but fini and pult in the A+ tier have at least one S- vote and they all have one A vote which really shows how there really isn't a consensus best mon, infact, there isn't even a decisive top 5. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing and provides a different experience to building and playing the tier. I will yap on about teambuilding in a post later on so stay tuned.
1.
Okay this mon is incredible, it is insanely easy to use, immune to lots of common cheese with clear body and bullet punch shenanigans, it can run a wide variety of things to provide genuine useful mu's, the most notable of which being trick scarf which allows it to not only beat landorus-i/t, but also allows it to trick common stall counterplay a choice scarf. Unlike other mons, meta doesn't fall short in achieving what you want it to do at all, which goes to show how great this mon really is.
2.
It wouldn't be an ss list of mine without this guy. Shell smash is really good, loads of teams just don't beat it if it has the right item as it's surprisingly not restricted to just lum, but can also run mental herb for taunters/ aromatisse as well as white herb for things which try to rock tomb etc it as well as bswipe drago. Band is still a great set, but it does suck losing out on some nice ssmash mus. Great mon overall and fairly underrated all things considered.
3.
I'll go over this a bit more in the teambuilding post but overall, it has some really great traits. Its fairly versatile and can beat many things which dark and rock types struggle with which allows for great freedom in the builder.
4.
Extremely good, easy to build around, versatile, what is not to love. Yea its cheesable with custap etc but it can capitalise on this with zen mode sets very well.
5.
I think people are starting to see my vision on zarude being really good. Its standard sets are powerful, band annihilates fairies and common counterplay, and scarf beats volcarona and darm-g.
6.
This mon is extremely good and possesses extremely good traits to make it very spammable.
7.
This mon has fallen off a lot in most peoples mind but it's still togekiss lmao, extremely solid and always has good mus.
8.
This guy is very good, probably the best ground type. I like bulky but it can really run whatever it wants.
9.
Very good mus against the annoying high tiers like drago prim pz etc. Thats basically it.
10.
Great mon, lowkey insane mu spread between sap sipper and av band etc. My fav set is a stall set which I will not drop because I'm an annoying gatekeeper.
Underrated:
Overrated:
hihi I have some SWSH updates finally for y'all. Firstly some council changes with bored_glitch, Mishlef, RTM, Waylaid, and Nick being added, congrats!
With that comes a loooot of VR shifts so here's hopefully the entire list ty bored_glitch and bea for compiling pretty much everything
Togekiss: S- > A+
Metagross: A+ > S-
Primarina: A+ > S-
Garchomp: A > A+
Tapu Koko: A > A-
Haxorus: A- > B+
Moltres-G: A- > B+
Arcanine: B+ > B
Corviknight: B+ > B
Crustle: B+ > A-
Gardevoir: B+ > B
Rhyperior: B+ > B
Steelix: B+ > B
Glastrier: B > B-
Heatran: B > B+
Nihilego: B > B-
Sawk: B > B-
Swampert: B > B-
Venusaur: B > B+
Zarude: B > B+
Aegislash: B- > C+
Avalugg: B- > C+
Corsola-G: B- > C+
Kommo-o: B- > C+
Rotom-H: B- > C+
Salazzle: B- > C+
Buzzwole: C+ > C
Ninetales: C+ > B-
Roserade: C+ > C
Gengar: C > C-
Nidoking: C > C+
Celebi: C- > D
Jellicent: C- > C
Slowbro-G: C- > D
Type:Null: C- > C
Archeops: D > C
Blacephalon: D > C-
Conkeldurr: D > C-
Seismitoad: D > C-
Tentacruel: D > C-
Terrakion: D > UR
Latios: UR > D
Raboot: UR > D
Scizor: UR > D
Shedinja: UR > D
Talonflame: UR > D
Torkoal: UR > D
Weavile: UR > D
This should be everything for now and it should all be updated in the OP. Anyways, beyond that there isn't a whole lot to add we'll probably look into updating samples and stuff post WC so see y'all then
With that comes a loooot of VR shifts so here's hopefully the entire list ty bored_glitch and bea for compiling pretty much everything
Togekiss: S- > A+
Metagross: A+ > S-
Primarina: A+ > S-
Garchomp: A > A+
Tapu Koko: A > A-
Haxorus: A- > B+
Moltres-G: A- > B+
Arcanine: B+ > B
Corviknight: B+ > B
Crustle: B+ > A-
Gardevoir: B+ > B
Rhyperior: B+ > B
Steelix: B+ > B
Glastrier: B > B-
Heatran: B > B+
Nihilego: B > B-
Sawk: B > B-
Swampert: B > B-
Venusaur: B > B+
Zarude: B > B+
Aegislash: B- > C+
Avalugg: B- > C+
Corsola-G: B- > C+
Kommo-o: B- > C+
Rotom-H: B- > C+
Salazzle: B- > C+
Buzzwole: C+ > C
Ninetales: C+ > B-
Roserade: C+ > C
Gengar: C > C-
Nidoking: C > C+
Celebi: C- > D
Jellicent: C- > C
Slowbro-G: C- > D
Type:Null: C- > C
Archeops: D > C
Blacephalon: D > C-
Conkeldurr: D > C-
Seismitoad: D > C-
Tentacruel: D > C-
Terrakion: D > UR
Latios: UR > D
Raboot: UR > D
Scizor: UR > D
Shedinja: UR > D
Talonflame: UR > D
Torkoal: UR > D
Weavile: UR > D
This should be everything for now and it should all be updated in the OP. Anyways, beyond that there isn't a whole lot to add we'll probably look into updating samples and stuff post WC so see y'all then