Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

[clerica]

gm, Sword and Shield maintenance

Council updates: Nalei, Rosa, Here Comes Team Charm!, and Murman have all moved on to SV. In their place we have added zioziotrip, bo_bobson27, and ncalathes

VR update:

Drops

Zeraora dropped from S- to A+
Aromatisse dropped from A to A-
Urshifu-R dropped from A to A-
Zarude dropped from B+ to B
Avalugg dropped from B to B-
Corsola-Galar dropped from B to B-
Sawk dropped from B to B-
Pheromosa dropped from B to B-
Whimsicott dropped from B to B-
Hydreigon dropped from B- to C+
Nidoking dropped from C+ to C
Suicune dropped from C+ to C
Type:Null dropped from C+ to C
Blissey dropped from C to C-
Incineroar dropped from C- to D
Latios dropped from C- to D
Raboot dropped from C- to D
Chandelure dropped from D to unranked
Escavalier dropped from D to unranked
Golisopod dropped from D to unranked
Regirock dropped from D to unranked
Shedinja dropped from D to unranked (thank god)
Skarmory dropped from D to unranked
Talonflame dropped from D to unranked
Weavile dropped from D to unranked

Rises

Ferrothorn rose from A- to A
Tapu Bulu rose from A- to A
Corviknight rose from B+ to A-
Kyurem rose from B+ to A-
Moltres-G rose from B+ to A-
Gardevoir rose from B to B+
Swampert rose from B- to B
Aegislash rose from C+ to B-
Buzzwole rose from C to C+
Thundurus rose from unranked to D
Vileplume rose from unranked to D

All of these should be reflected in the resources post. Regarding tiering don't expect anything anytime soon because the tier is pretty balanced as is. There's also a decent chance I missed something with all these changes so if I did feel free to yell at me.

gn

 

[Jabiru]

Shedinja dropped from D to unranked (thank god)

I'm using my one post every 3 months quota to nom Shedinja to D,

Aight so as we all know I care approximately one iota about SS, so it has to be a pretty important issue for me to be making a post in this thread. With that said, I would like to voice my unequivocal support for seeing Shedinja ranked on the VR. I don't think anyone is ever gonna argue its a top threat or even anything remotely close to it, but I think people treat it inherently differently to any other mon, and this is reflected in both in game play and in ranking discussion.

The first point I'd like to touch on is this:

However, the mon itself is way too inconsistent to be rankable. ... Overall it can work but it's inconsistency makes it something to keep unranked, at least to me.

(I don't mean to call out murman here in particular, especially because he touches on other points but it fits my narrative so I'm rolling with it)
This is an idea I see a lot in general when it comes to discussion of Shedinja, and whilst I agree with the key idea that Shedinja is an inherently risky pokemon and provides you with almost 0 matchup clarity, I disagree with the conclusion that this alone is enough . The discussion has to be around whether the payoff for that risk is sufficient to see it ranked, even as low as D. And just to hammer this point home, I'd like to highlight another pokemon that faces similar issues but has seen notably different treatment. Slaking is ranked (or banned) in every generation of 1v1 in which it exists, despite being almost as easy to tech as Shedinja (Slaking does have alternative options in DPP and to a lesser extent BW, but for the most part is entirely shut down by protect). Yet even despite this we see semi-regular employment of Slaking in tournament play, because it can catch teams unaware and matchup fish to great effect.

Now I do not care remotely enough about SS to do full matchups for a mon being nommed to D tier, but the matchups it can win are by no means irrelevant. You're looking at like half the A range mons having relevant sets with 0 threat to Shedinja. Though I would say notably in the SS metagame, is its matchups into Sylveon, Regidrago and Fini, now unless you're psychotic enough to consider band Regidrago's best set, you're looking at beating 3 of the most defining forces in the metagame's best sets, and realistically you're beating most all variants of these mons. The idea that its completely outclassed by the pokemon in D tier is laughable (Just for the record, D tier puts it alongside mons like Torkoal, Excadrill and Golisopod. One of which hasn't been relevant since Mew got banned, another which hasn't been relevant since Mimikyu got banned in SM, and the last which has quite literally never been relevant.)

Like it or not, Shedinja is a relevant threat in the 1v1 metagame and I think there comes a point where you have to stop looking solely at its potential to lose but also consider its potential to win. Especially in a tours setting, Shedinja is a genuine tool in teambuilding, at least as much as the mons that would be alongside it, if the nom to D tier goes ahead.

 

[DEG]

I keep getting tagged and stuff about Charizardite Y but I haven't changed my mind, Charizardite Y isn't worth a ban and should not be banned. However, I've thought about the issue and the state of the metagame more and I've come into the conclusion that both Charizard Mega X and Mew should be banned. I also wouldn't mind an outright ban on both Charizards as a whole.

I still don't understand what's the fuss about Charizardite Y, it ability to flinch with an Air Slash and the fact that Rock Tomb isn't really something concrete and that's all people like to highlight when talking about that Pokemon. Flinch and miss chances are a part of the game, and many Pokemon can hax through their usual checks. Charizardite Y has a glarring typing weakness and it's a one-trick-pony, honestly, I have never been afraid of that Pokemon in the builder. However, Charizard-X is the behemoth that people need to give extra respect in the builder and in-game. Its typing is amazing and so much different than regular charizard typing which makes a lot of Pokemon be forced into mega evo guess ontop of which mega zard it is. It has a fantastic movepool that is actually abusable, it can be max atk offensive, def offensive, spdf offensive, it can even run max def counter, and has a lot of variations in moves; bdrum, sd, flame charge, counter, eq, brick break.. which allows it to pick what it wants to check. Its moveset being undiscernible at preview makes it even more broken than Y.

I do agree Zard X has more opportunity cost, and one of the reasons I don't think/didn't think both zard should be restricted/banned is because they have a lot of common checks that are actually being well integrated in the meta - TTar, Mega Gyarados (can lose to impish wisp zard x not y l0l!!), diancie, malt, garchomp, lati@s, heatran, greninja... are all on the safe side of checks. As long as you don't repeat the same check, zards will have a problem teching them. But what I found actually annoying in current meta ORAS isn't Zard as a whole but Zard with the other popular threats in the meta that can rend these checks actually useless - mentioning here manaphy, mew, maw, gard... so as a whole the meta revolving around zard is pretty unhealthy.

Banning Charizardite X is actually the logical answer honestly as it is the most restricting Pokemon between the two forms. Rocks are afraid to click moves due to counter, physical mons are afraid to be sent in due to wisp, and blitz+outrage are 100% accurate, and it forces many guess in-game and on preview. Charizardite Y ban is such a mickey option as the mon doesn't really have that IT factor, it's probably one of the easier mon to check. That is the logical thing to do. But imo, looking more in the future - I do believe that both Charizard should be banned at the same time. Banning X or Y alone isn't really changing anything in the meta. Banning X still means zard y + mana/mew/gard/steels... terrorize the meta and is annoying to check or play around. Banning Y alone means that nothing is fixed - X is still King and can bend itself as it wishes - it can beat dos ttar, can counter the terrakion and dnite, can burn the sawk, can sd on the chansey etc... My final opinion is that we should ban both zards.

b-b-b-buuuut deggg! Mah manaphy and victini broken!!!! That's just speculation and it's uncalled for but imo I can delve you more into MY speculation. Bold prediction - Manaphy will not be broken, Victini might not be broken but it depends on how Vic+Mana meta plays. Vic can check many mons and can also adapt freely but I believe it will still have lot of counters like bro, mana, lati@s, ttar, diancie and some others I prob forgot. Without Zard, Manaphy check are more free - gard, sylveon, hoopa, meloetta, pz (i think its a 5050), magnezone, serperior, new electric entrants should keep it at bay. The only thing I'm afraid of is Mana+Vic cores sending us to the same meta that zard shaped but if that's the case - Victini would be the culprit.

Also when Zard leaves, Mew also has to go. It's kinda insane now even w/ zard, the stall set alone can deal with a bunch of offensive mons but when u throw in offensive mew, scarf, band, and more it becomes a pain to deal w/ - like ttar, sect, gard aren't "checks" anymore.

The road to save ORAS is clear - Ban Charizardite X, Y and Mew, then monitor Victini.

 

[SuperMemeBroz]

I didn’t know where else to post it but considering this is a post talking about classic vii, this felt the most appropriate. I am here to make my fucking presence known again after not playing for half a year and come to discuss the future of old generation is classic tournaments.

First of all, having a selim format for the retro generations (which I assume will be 1-4 maybe) is fucking asinine to me. Why? Well I will always stand by and say pure single elimination tournaments weren’t really meant for a format like 1v1, next, these are generations where crits hit harder and they happen more often. You saw how everyone complained about dpp for years for due to how hax filled it is and how the meta was for a while. You saw how adv LT ended being finals with a guy who haxed his way to finals and quite literally robbed Logan out of $100. To fix this issue, just have a format that doesn’t reward hax as much as single elimination in my opinion.


Another gripe I have is combining the two tours into classic playoffs. We all know everyone is going to touch ss-bw, and will keep their hands off of dpp-rby. By that logic, someone can perform mid in 8 fucking cups and get into poffs easily and poffs would seem mickey. Maybe separate the two and have the the retro tour be it’s own thing probably I’d say.

tldr, selim is ass in old gens with crits more often to happen, can’t prove me wrong otherwise

 

[Potatochan]

I keep getting tagged and stuff about Charizardite Y but I haven't changed my mind, Charizardite Y isn't worth a ban and should not be banned. However, I've thought about the issue and the state of the metagame more and I've come into the conclusion that both Charizard Mega X and Mew should be banned. I also wouldn't mind an outright ban on both Charizards as a whole.

I still don't understand what's the fuss about Charizardite Y, it ability to flinch with an Air Slash and the fact that Rock Tomb isn't really something concrete and that's all people like to highlight when talking about that Pokemon. Flinch and miss chances are a part of the game, and many Pokemon can hax through their usual checks. Charizardite Y has a glarring typing weakness and it's a one-trick-pony, honestly, I have never been afraid of that Pokemon in the builder. However, Charizard-X is the behemoth that people need to give extra respect in the builder and in-game. Its typing is amazing and so much different than regular charizard typing which makes a lot of Pokemon be forced into mega evo guess ontop of which mega zard it is. It has a fantastic movepool that is actually abusable, it can be max atk offensive, def offensive, spdf offensive, it can even run max def counter, and has a lot of variations in moves; bdrum, sd, flame charge, counter, eq, brick break.. which allows it to pick what it wants to check. Its moveset being undiscernible at preview makes it even more broken than Y.

I do agree Zard X has more opportunity cost, and one of the reasons I don't think/didn't think both zard should be restricted/banned is because they have a lot of common checks that are actually being well integrated in the meta - TTar, Mega Gyarados (can lose to impish wisp zard x not y l0l!!), diancie, malt, garchomp, lati@s, heatran, greninja... are all on the safe side of checks. As long as you don't repeat the same check, zards will have a problem teching them. But what I found actually annoying in current meta ORAS isn't Zard as a whole but Zard with the other popular threats in the meta that can rend these checks actually useless - mentioning here manaphy, mew, maw, gard... so as a whole the meta revolving around zard is pretty unhealthy.

Banning Charizardite X is actually the logical answer honestly as it is the most restricting Pokemon between the two forms. Rocks are afraid to click moves due to counter, physical mons are afraid to be sent in due to wisp, and blitz+outrage are 100% accurate, and it forces many guess in-game and on preview. Charizardite Y ban is such a mickey option as the mon doesn't really have that IT factor, it's probably one of the easier mon to check. That is the logical thing to do. But imo, looking more in the future - I do believe that both Charizard should be banned at the same time. Banning X or Y alone isn't really changing anything in the meta. Banning X still means zard y + mana/mew/gard/steels... terrorize the meta and is annoying to check or play around. Banning Y alone means that nothing is fixed - X is still King and can bend itself as it wishes - it can beat dos ttar, can counter the terrakion and dnite, can burn the sawk, can sd on the chansey etc... My final opinion is that we should ban both zards.

b-b-b-buuuut deggg! Mah manaphy and victini broken!!!! That's just speculation and it's uncalled for but imo I can delve you more into MY speculation. Bold prediction - Manaphy will not be broken, Victini might not be broken but it depends on how Vic+Mana meta plays. Vic can check many mons and can also adapt freely but I believe it will still have lot of counters like bro, mana, lati@s, ttar, diancie and some others I prob forgot. Without Zard, Manaphy check are more free - gard, sylveon, hoopa, meloetta, pz (i think its a 5050), magnezone, serperior, new electric entrants should keep it at bay. The only thing I'm afraid of is Mana+Vic cores sending us to the same meta that zard shaped but if that's the case - Victini would be the culprit.

Also when Zard leaves, Mew also has to go. It's kinda insane now even w/ zard, the stall set alone can deal with a bunch of offensive mons but when u throw in offensive mew, scarf, band, and more it becomes a pain to deal w/ - like ttar, sect, gard aren't "checks" anymore.

The road to save ORAS is clear - Ban Charizardite X, Y and Mew, then monitor Victini.

I don’t think the argument with Zard Y is that its broken, but rather unhealthy. Banning Zard X—the main centralizing force of ORAS—would likely have disastrous effects on the metagame. Thus, banning Zard Y appears to be an appealing alternative option, nerfing Zard X by no longer allowing it to bluff such a massive special nuke. As you mentioned, Zard Y doesn’t tend to be a huge consideration in the builder (moreso in playing) and as such its removal would have a far less problematic effect on the metagame.

I think people see arguments about banning anything other than the best pokemon of any tier in its entirety and go red in the eyes, saying “wahhhh but tiering policy!! you can’t ban zard y if its not BROKEN,” but yes… you can.

Tiering policy defines the term Unhealthy as follows:
“These are elements that may not limit either team building or battling skill enough individually but combine to cause an effect that is undesirable for the metagame.
This can also be a state of the metagame. If the metagame has too much diversity wherein team building ability is greatly hampered and battling skill is drastically reduced, we may seek to reduce the number of good-to-great threats.”

In ORAS, trying to fit a “fire check” can be a daunting task. Rock types are the only real reliable answer, considering the many viable sets of both Zard forms + Victini. Removing Zard Y serves to diminish the diversity of fire types, allowing mons such as Stall Manaphy and Slowbro to serve as more reliable fire checks. Even certain Rock types such as Rhyperior appreciate not having to risk an Air Slash flinch as AV or playing 50/50s as Custap. ORAS almost has a weird RPS going on between Fires, Fire checks (Rocks, Dragons) and Steels. Nerfing the diversity of Fires by banning Zard Y serves to allow the Fire checks to diversify themselves and break this RPS.

Now, I’m personally of the opinion that ORAS needs no tiering action and people should l2p, but if we insist on taking action, then I believe banning Zard Y to be a very viable one. I’ll leave someone else to argue why we should keep Zard X, probably crucify thanks.

 

[zioziotrip]

ban zardy or ban nothing.

zardy ban is the smoothest way to free up the builder without drastically changing the tier. zardy without x is simply not a centralizing mon and while some may point to this as a good thing, you need something to centralize the tier. zardx in a vacuum is an incredibly strong mon restricted to only using physical moves and it’s pretty reliant on its stab making it pretty easy to tech and account for on its own, zardy ruins this. solo zardx is the optimal way to centralize the tier without completely disrupting everything.

the consequences of a zardx ban are too catastrophic to seriously consider unless we want to play oras uu 1v1 in a few months time, which imo, is way worse than the current state of the tier.

all this mew talk feels like throwing darts at a board to identify the issue. it’s the same mana discussion from after pl where a previously linear mon gets explored but then a few months down the line it cements itself as not actually that problematic.

I was gonna rant about how I don’t find the tier’s current state to be bad or uncompetitive but that’s ultimately my personal taste. My point is still oras doesn’t need to be “saved” we shouldn’t make half-assed attempts to change it.

bonus

 

[crucify]

​

After a year of 50% zard usage, arguing in circles on discord, claiming rock types are viable, and flinching people with mega charizard y air slash, the oras 1v1 council has voted to suspect charizard in oras 1v1. The reasons behind this have been discussed countless times, so I won't here. With how playerbase/community discord has been recently, a ban on Charizardite Y gained substantial support, but with support still existing for a ban on Charizardite X, we used a ranked choice voting method to determine what, if anything, should be suspected.

Results of Council Vote

So while zardy got a straight majority of first preference votes, it wasnt a supermajority, and due to X and nothing being tied for the second preference, the suspect will be a ranked choice suspect of Ban Charizardite Y, Ban Charizardite X, and Ban Neither, similar to the BW OU gems/volcarona/cloyster suspect: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-ou-gems-volcarona-cloyster.3704372/

People automatically were granted reqs for the following:

• Council member OR
• ORAS Cup Finalists OR
• Played at least 3 series of ORAS in PL, and won at least two games OR
• Played at least 3 series of ORAS in WC, and won at least two games

Initial Voter List

crucify, pqs, Elo Bandit, DEG, Mubs, DezShizzels, 187 Fan, bird poop, Inkreativ, Leru, OM, Synonimous, Entei, crying (14)

Additionally, as this is a big decision in ORAS tiering, we have came up with two different tours for the sake of providing players additional means of qualifying for this suspect: an invitational and live tours.

First, for the invitational, the ORAS council decided on the most objective criteria we could that would include players that have played a considerable or notable amount of ORAS throughout 1v1 history, but have not started in oras or played in oras individuals recently, who we believe deserve an additional opportunity to get reqs.

Criteria

• ORAS Cup Semis
• 2021 ORAS Cup Finals
• ORAS Tiebreak players
• 1v1 Classic Semifinalists
• ORAS No Johns finalists
• >10 games all time played in ORAS in team tours
• Played at least 3 series of ORAS in WC V (2021 wc), and won at least two games

Of those who were alive and accepted, we got enough for a 16 person tournament: Justdelemon, zioziotrip, Potatochan, smely socks, Rosa, XSTATIC COLD, Whaleeeee, Scraftionite, Joker 1v1, torterraxx, Drix, eblurb, Close, Akeras, Waylaid, STABLE

These players will be randomly sorted into 4 pools of 4 and play a round robin within their pool, just like in World Cup. Those who finish with a positive record in their pool will earn reqs. The tour will be posted later today.

The live tours for this suspect will be emulating those of the main 1v1 Live tournament, just like the SM Mew suspect, with each tournament taking place on the Smogtours server, as well as having the same scheme for dates and times, being:

• Saturday, January 14th:
  • 6 PM GMT+0 (EU, USA, maybe India)
  • 11:59 PM GMT+0 (OCE, EU, USA)
• Sunday, January 15th:
  • 4 PM GMT+0 (semi-USA, EU, India)
  • 10 PM GMT+0 (EU, USA)
• Saturday, January 21st:
  • 6 PM GMT+0 (EU, USA, maybe India)
  • 11:59 PM GMT+0 (OCE, EU, USA)
• Sunday, January 22nd:
  • 4 PM GMT+0 (semi-USA, EU, India)
  • 10 PM GMT+0 (EU, USA)

We are currently looking for hosts so if you are interested pm me on discord (i will be hosting at least a few so we do not have 0).

Few other notes:
- Players who already qualified through ORAS Cup, Premier League, and World Cup will be able to cast their votes immediately through a google form while the live tour phase is going on.
- Players who have already qualified through the above means are still allowed to play in the live tours!
- Once the qualifiers from the live tours and invitational have been determined, they will have 4 days to cast their votes.
- How ranked choice voting works: voters will order Ban Charizardite X, Ban Charizardite Y, and Ban Neither from 1 to 3, 1 being their most preferred, and 3 being least. If one option has over 50% of the first place votes, it will automatically win. If there isn't, the option that has the least first place votes will be eliminated, and those that voted for it with their first place vote will have their second choice vote count as their first, and then whichever remaining option has the most votes will happen.

Feel free to discuss or argue more on discord in the meantime

 

[bellchime]

why do I keep posting about BW after crucify says something probably more relevant about ORAS...

Hi there, BW updates again! neomon and Freddy Kyogre have left the BW Council. We sincerely thank them for all the effort they put in towards making BW 1v1 better. To replace them, crucify and STABLE have joined the BW council.

Rises
Cresselia from A+ to S-
Manaphy from A to A+
Metagross from A to A+
Porygon-Z from A to A+
Garchomp from A- to A
Jellicent from A- to A
Raikou from A- to A
Meloetta from B+ to A-
Serperior from B+ to A-
Tornadus from B to B+
Tornadus-T from B to B+
Mienshao from B- to B
Salamence from C+ to B-
Clefable from UR to C+
Togetic from UR to C

Drops
Genesect from A+ to A
Landorus-T from A- to B+
Magnezone from A- to B+
Arcanine from B+ to B
Chandelure from B+ to B
Slaking from B+ to B
Terrakion from B+ to B
Archeops from B to B-
Hydreigon from B to B-
Rotom-W from B to B-
Hariyama from B to C+
Breloom from B- to C+
Gengar from B- to C+
Infernape from B- to C+
Mamoswine from B- to C+
Rotom-H from B- to C+
Slowbro from B- to C+
Starmie from B- to C+
Durant from B- to C
Roserade from B- to C
Alakazam from C+ to C
Blissey from C+ to C
Hippowdon from C+ to C
Sceptile from C+ to C
Scizor from C+ to C
Venusaur from C+ to C
Carracosta from C+ to C-
Darmanitan from C+ to C-
Kingdra from C to C-
Krookodile from C to C-
Reuniclus from C to C-
Umbreon from C to C-
Virizion from C to C-
Excadrill from C to UR
Gallade from C to UR
Riolu from C to UR
Azumarill from C- to D
Cacturne from C- to D
Cofagrigus from C- to D
Exeggutor from C- to D
Hitmonlee from C- to D
Quagsire from C- to D
Torterra from C- to D
Galvantula from C- to UR
Escavalier from D to UR
Miltank from D to UR
Murkrow from D to UR
Politoed from D to UR
Weavile from D to UR


These changes will be reflected on the BW OP whenever DEG gets to updating it. I am currently working on a revamped sets compendium for Pokemon ranked B or higher. You can expect it to be out before the beginning of PL at the very latest.

Edit: Itchy didn't vote originally so this was edited to reflect their votes...

 

[pqs]

Charizardite Y: Ban

 

[LRXC]

ADV speed tiers updated shoutouts bored_glitch for the amazing work as always

 

[glitched]

i also updated bw speedtiers

 

[glitched]

haha what if dpp had speedtiers :eyes:
ss speedtiers also updated (smely socks will impliment today or tmr :tm:)
uh oras and sm maybe next week

 

[crucify]

​

hello everyone, the ORAS Charizard suspect, also known as ORAS 1v1 Among Us but Charizard is the Imposter, has concluded.

Voters (26)

Initial voter list:
crucify, pqs, Elo Bandit, DEG, Mubs, DezShizzels, 187 Fan, bird poop, Inkreativ, Leru, OM, Synonimous, Entei, crying (14)

ORAS 1v1 Among Us but Charizard is the Imposter Invitational:
eblurb (3-0), smely socks (2-1), Scrationite (2-1), Rosa (2-1), STABLE (3-0), zioziotrip (2-1), Potatochan (3-0) (7)

ORAS 1v1 Charizard Live Tours: only the top 3 tours counted for each person, and we took the top 10% of point getters from the total amount of entrants, which was 52, so the following 5 people earned reqs from the live tours:
SwordIsBored, deddd, PA, ncalathes, zo (5)

Results (full votes here):

Ban Charizardite X: 4
Ban Charizardite Y: 18
Ban Neither: 4

With a supermajority of 69.2% of first place votes, Charizardite Y has been banned from ORAS 1v1! tagging Kris to implement when able, thanks! Also thanks again to everyone who hosted and played in the suspect tours

 

[Mishlef]

 

[Elo Bandit]

RBY 1v1 Resources have been updated!
Huge thanks to Murman for all the help developing this tier!

 

[bellchime]

Hi there again, here are more BW 1v1 updates. Urfgurgle has become the newest member of the BW 1v1 Council. On behalf of the council, I offer him our hearty congratulations! With his addition to the council, we have one final round of VR Updates to make before OGPL.

Rises
Genesect from A to A+
Latios from A to A+
Tyranitar from A to A+
Heatran from B+ to A-
Arcanine from B to B+
Kyurem from B to B+
Terrakion from B to B+
Blissey from C to C+
Durant from C to C+
Hippowdon from C to C+
Darmanitan from C- to C
Reuniclus from C- to C
Staraptor from C- to C
Virizion from C- to C
Quagsire from D to C-
Excadrill from UR to D
Gallade from UR to D
Miltank from UR to D
Riolu from UR to D

Drops
Volcarona from S to S-
Porygon-Z from A+ to A
Thundurus from A+ to A
Jellicent from A to A-
Meloetta from A- to B+
Serperior from A- to B+
Tornadus from B+ to B
Tornadus from B+ to B
Ferrothorn from B to B-
Mienshao from B to B-
Swampert from B to B-
Salamence from B- to C+
Breloom from C+ to C-
Clefable from C+ to C
Alakazam from C to C-
Cobalion from C- to D

In addition, the revamped sets compendium is still not finished, and the release date will probably be between OGPL and PL, but it could take longer. I just really do not know at this point. If anyone would like to submit sets to the sets compendium, please contact me on Discord. I'd be very glad to review the set and put it in the compendium if I find it sufficiently relevant to put on there. Thanks!

 

[Boat]

USUM VR Updates (many of these have actually been voted on for months and just never published)

Rises
Zygarde-Complete (A -> A+)
Aegislash (A- -> A)
Volcarona (B -> B+)
Ambipom (B- -> B)
Diggersby (C+ -> B-)
Blastoise-Mega (C -> C+)
Alakazam-Mega (C- -> C)
Blissey (C- -> C)
Salazzle (C- -> C)
Talonflame (C- -> C)
Mamoswine (D -> C-)
Nidoking (D -> C-)

Drops
Blaziken-Mega (B+ -> B)
Naganadel (B+ -> B)
Ferrothorn (B -> B-)
Krookodile (B -> B-)
Magneton (B -> B-)
Pheromosa (B -> B-)
Whimsicott (B -> B-)
Durant (B- -> C+)
Rhyperior (B- -> C+)
Chansey (C+ -> C)
Thundurus-Therian (C+ -> C)
Bellossom (D -> UR)
Crobat (D -> UR)
Roserade (D -> UR)

 

[Elo Bandit]

Boat has stepped down from SM 1v1 TL & VR Council. Thank you for all your contributions to this metagame!

USUM VR Updates

Rises
Crobat (UR -> D)

Drops
Aegislash (A -> A-)
Blissey (C -> C-)

The original post has been updated with new resources.

On a completely different note, I would love to see the ADV 1v1 resources and Sets Compendium updated with some fresh ideas. Here are some of my own:

Raikou

Theory - https://pokepast.es/f501e16d2fde659e
Sets - https://pokepast.es/633638dec5b5f514

Blissey

Theory - https://pokepast.es/f343de0be003f292
Sets - https://pokepast.es/9c8e4d568b95578c

Heracross

Theory - https://pokepast.es/38027086cbb99b1d
Sets - https://pokepast.es/cc529d070f6386c3

Blastoise

Theory - https://pokepast.es/11d7a1affc5a81a3
Sets - https://pokepast.es/4309010908e0dabc

Celebi

Theory - https://pokepast.es/20bb82dc7de6298c
Sets - https://pokepast.es/cf68d33aab4e6ef3
Teams - https://pokepast.es/9074e3539f1d595b

Marowak

Theory - https://pokepast.es/8fc37c41b7a8b008
Sets - https://pokepast.es/2f6dd263c6088793

Salamence

Theory - https://pokepast.es/116a1b097ddd0a30
Sets - https://pokepast.es/096eb33a13958a07

Aerodactyl

Theory - https://pokepast.es/1c4588239f6239bb
Sets - https://pokepast.es/b7c7dc3f12e1fc1b

Alazakam

Theory - https://pokepast.es/74f13871628a3766
Sets - https://pokepast.es/06b78593d46c636e

 

[bellchime]

hey BW council I really don't have too much time to do a full nom on this given irl situation and the amount of HW I am behind on but...

can we get to B?

Thanks!!

 

[ThetaCentauri]

My boy vaporeon needs some more respect in sm and ss. Just take some random set like Chilean or rindo or custap for ss and water z for sm and go through the tier list if ur just slightly lucky with yawn you beat like all of the top tiers it’s insane. And it’s somehow not even ranked in ss. Like bro I know you aren’t sayin that excadrill is better than water type sylveon with hydro pump. Absolute disgrace. Not to mention that in terms of being able to cheese a lot of bad matchups. Also, cresselia is the best Pokémon in ss. It’s unbeatable. Where are the ghost and dark types. I really thought this was common knowledge right now, but I always forget not to overestimate the intelligence of the average Pokémon showdown dot com player, which is my fault. Zeraora is not better than cress, and pz is nowhere near the same level as togekiss. If I were to reorder the current top four on the ss vr, I would move zera down a tier, move cress up ,and move pz to like A and keep kiss where it is as well. And I would move prim up to A+ with kiss and zera because that’s where it belongs. I was listening to Dogs by Pink Floyd last night. I think it’s their best song. I know this post doesn’t really flow well at all but I just wanted to get some thoughts across and ion wanna spend time proofreading a Smogon post. I’m at school rn going insane excuse the balls English. English is not my first language (but it’s the only one I’m proficient in)
All in all, Zera —> A+
Polygon z —> A
Cress—> S-
Vaporeon —> C+ (it deserves it)

 

[Potatochan]

i was harassed for weeks for having vaporeon in C tier… good luck, kid

 

[DEG]

Welcome Inkreativ XSTATIC COLD and torterraxx to the ORAS 1v1 council.

Also, it's definitely time to bring up ORAS Sleep Powder ban, and SS Yawn/Sleep Powder ban. Let's just remove sleep from 1v1 for good.

 

[Nunnbetter]

Having played the SS 1v1 tier for quite a while now, I find myself wanting to bring up the concept of sleep again and sharing why I think the remaining sleep-inducing moves should be banned from the tier.

After reading all available posts discussing sleep-inducing moves concerning this and past generations, I feel I need to start by saying that sleep is not a broken element of this metagame but is uncompetitive in nature. With the current standing of mons that utilize sleep as a wincon in the metagame, there should effectively be no discussion about how one can/should run lum berry, taunt, encore, a metagross to counter Sylveon, a panzer tank to counter Venusaur, etc. Such strategies exist, are all plausible each to a certain extent and have been discussed in the past, however, they are not related to sleep’s uncompetitive nature. What is actually important to note though, is that the RNG element that governs sleep as a strategy in 1v1 reduces player interaction and by extension renders the attempt (of either party) to make informed decisions less impactful.

In scenarios where sleep-inducing moves are used, player interaction is undermined by definition, despite the possible existence of soft counters. This is tied to the duration of sleep being purely determined by RNG: there is a 33% chance that the mon will wake up after one turn of sleep. If it does not wake up after 1 turn, there is a 50% chance it will wake up after 2 turns of sleep. With such a random way to decide sleep turns, even if some form of counterplay exists, it may not even have a chance to be utilized if games end up being decided by rolling the dice, e.g 3-turn sleep, successfully hitting a sleep-inducing move on the turn the opposing mon wakes up. Furthermore, the most intuitive counterplay to the above (switching out) is not possible. Overall, the sleep user’s opponent often loses their share of control on the game.

While the above happen to showcase a negative effect on the sleep user’s opponent, I actually consider the fact that sleep doesn’t simply have a fixed effect on exclusively one of the associated players an even more important reason to ban it. Sleep has a volatile effect and in fact reduces the impact of skillful gameplay from either player.

The use of sleep creates situations where no player knows what the next sequence will look like. On one end we have the player whose mon has been put to sleep and has lost all control over the game until it wakes up. And, on the other end, the sleep user whose next correct move is correlated with whether the next turn is a wake-up turn. So, with every turn after the guaranteed sleep turn being a possible wake-up turn, every move performed by the sleep user has a chance to be the correct move (e.g. a successful attack on the last possible sleep turn) but also has a chance to be a wasted move (e.g a sleep powder on a sleep turn). Therefore, sleep not only takes away the game from the hands of the player who’s on the receiving end, but also gives rise to scenarios that require the other player to be in the right place at the right time. This is neither about probability management nor about a skill of being able to correctly predict a sequence.

While it can be argued that these are the associated risks with using sleep inducing moves (and this is not a point I’d disagree with), I strongly believe that eliminating scenarios where neither player has a correct way to play their following turns and scenarios where control is removed from a player is an action that will push towards rewarding players who showcase more skillful gameplay. The above reasons are enough to describe sleep-inducing moves as consistent with the definition for “Uncompetitive” given by tiering policy framework. I think it’s plausible to hold a vote on the sleep inducing moves that remain in the tier and I urge those voters who are willing to improve the metagame to vote for a ban of sleep-inducing moves regardless of this being a community or council vote.

 

[crow crumbs]

ban entei for coinflipping half the meta.

ban custap bc almost all mons b+ and above can viably run it and it tends to create really ugly weighted 50/50s where you need to guess between someone making the "optimal" play and enduring with the knowledge they can just double endure (reducing a winning mu to 67.7% btw) and not doing the optimal play and attacking.

probably ban gdarm after banning custap but im not too sure since i wasnt around pre-home.

been building a bit again for mr. 789 heres a pvr:

 

[DEG]

ORAS VR overhaul! I've basically deleted the VR and we voted from scratch. Voting sheet per member;

VR

S
Charizard-Mega-X

S-
Gardevoir-Mega
Metagross-Mega
Victini

A+
Altaria-Mega
Greninja
Gyarados-Mega
Manaphy
Mawile-Mega

A
Heatran
Kyurem-Black
Mew
Porygon-Z
Sableye-Mega
Venusaur-Mega

A-
Diancie-Mega
Dragonite
Garchomp
Genesect
Landorus-Therian
Lopunny-Mega
Medicham-Mega
Meloetta
Slowbro-Mega
Togekiss

B+
Ampharos-Mega
Deoxys-Speed
Haxorus
Hoopa-Unbound
Jirachi
Serperior
Sylveon
Tyranitar-Mega
Volcanion

B
Aggron-Mega
Chansey
Diancie
Garchomp-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Heracross-Mega
Landorus
Latias-Mega
Latios-Mega
Latios
Registeel
Rhyperior
Magnezone
Sawk
Slaking
Terrakion
Volcarona


B-
Aegislash
Ambipom
Archeops
Blastoise-Mega
Clefable
Cresselia
Crustle
Donphan
Empoleon
Entei
Gallade-Mega
Jumpluff
Pinsir-Mega
Porygon2
Talonflame
Vivillon
Whimsicott
Zapdos

C+

Aggron
Alakazam-Mega
Audino-Mega
Azumarill
Thundurus-T
Ferrothorn
Golem
Lucario-Mega
Manectric-Mega
Pidgeot-Mega
Raikou
Smeargle

C
Camerupt-Mega
Celebi
Emboar
Gastrodon
Infernape
Keldeo
Heracross
Regirock
Rotom-Heat
Scizor-Mega
Swampert-Mega

C-
Aurorus
Avalugg
Banette-Mega
Blissey
Conkeldurr
Darmanitan
Durant
Excadrill
Houndoom-Mega
Kingdra
Reuniclus
Salamence
Shedinja

D
Abomasnow-Mega
Florges
Heracross
Klefki
Steelix-Mega