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Metagame 1v1 Old Gens

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:dp/jirachi: DPP 1v1 BREAKING NEWS: JIRACHI IS NOW OFFICIALLY BANNED! :dp/jirachi:

Jirachi has caught the attention of the DPP 1v1 playerbase and the 1v1 community to an extent, especially those who played and witnessed DPP 1v1 matches in the first Old Generations Premier League, and in the DPP 1v1 Cup VII; as such, we thought the time is ripe to take tiering action against this Pokemon.

The selection process for qualified voters, spearheaded by myself, the metagame leader, consisted of current Council members and individuals who have a deep run in individual tournaments starting from the DPP 1v1 No Johns Tournament (2021) up to the most recent DPP 1v1 Cup VII. For transparency, here are the results of the suspect voting process:

Jirachi
Eligible Voters: 19
Votes (before Friday, November 3, 10:00 PM GMT -4 deadline): 15
Ban: 11
No Ban: 3
Abstain: 1
(about to vote - abstain by default if not voting by the deadline): 4

Ban %: 78.57% (11 of 14)
Threshold: 60%
Result: BAN

Tagging Kris for the implementation of this tiering change; thank you in advance!
 
Pretty late but here's the Post-PL ORAS survey responses.

1. How much do you enjoy ORAS 1v1?

The average vote turned out to be 3.83, indicating that responders mostly lean towards enjoying the metagame (overall, watching + playing).

2. How fun is the metagame to play for you?

The average vote turned out to be 3.44, a considerable drop from the previous vote. From the comments, displeasure usually stems from usage being somewhat skewed towards a set of top Pokemon, while the others are much less viable, and a less varied metagame due to how teams are usually built centered around Fire types. Despite this, on average responders tend to still enjoy playing this metagame, though we would request you follow up on our post-World Cup Survey to better highlight your opinions on the same.

3. How balanced do you think the metagame is competitively?

With an average vote of 3.66, (and a supermajority of votes being 3), responders believe that the metagame is more or less balanced competitively. Pairing it with the above two scores, it is reasonable to say that responders believe on average that the current metagame is satisfactory.

4. Average "Is <Pokemon> healthy?" votes:
Mega Charizard X :charizard-mega-x: : 3.22
Mega Gardevoir :gardevoir-mega: : 3.61
Mega Metagross :metagross-mega: : 3.88
Victini :victini: : 3.44
Manaphy :manaphy: : 3.66

From these votes, there is not enough glaring evidence to think about tiering action on any of these Pokemon currently, although this may change in the future. Again, we encourage follow up if you feel like your concerns need to be addressed more in our post 1v1 WCoP survey.

5. Mega Charizard Y and Snorlax votes:

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1699117127225.png


Due to the lack of support at this moment from the community, we will not currently be pursuing tiering action on either Pokemon listed, although this could change in further surveys.

6. Extra suggestions / comments

a) Unban Blaziken - We'll make sure this is included in further surveys after World Cup.
b) Multiple comments about ORAS being top-heavy: It's not an unpopular opinion and while the community is mostly against banning current mons, citing that they all feel balanced, a lot of Pokemon past B tier end up mostly unviable past gimmick sets. As long as the metagame itself continues to be enjoyable to responders, it's not something the council will choose to touch upon; we hope the World Cup brings with it innovation, especially with a more up-to-date set comp being publicly accessible and concrete.
c) It said BW 1v1 in multiple places in the original survey - This is my mistake, I fully admit to copying the BW survey and editing it; but at least this response arrived before theirs, by virtue of which I will claim immunity to complaints along these lines.

Thank you for responding, and wish you the best in your 1v1 WCoP endeavors.
 
This is long overdue but here are the survey results + how council responded
ty DEG for the data analysis, here is a link to the raw results with names scrubbed if you want to look at the data yourself
image.png
Manaphy was not included in this screenshot, but had an average rating of 3.89/5
image.png
Among both groups, there was a sense that Genesect and Snorlax were not very healthy for the metagame. When more casual BW players were included there was also a sense that Cresselia was not very healthy, although this was not as pronounced in the responses of tournament players. Given this information, council voted on whether to act on Snorlax and/or Genesect.
The results were as follows:

Act on Genesect (2): deg, me
Do not act on Genesect (3): Kaif, Taka, SMBZ
Abstain (1): Urfgurgle

Act on Snorlax (2): Urfgurgle, SMBZ
Do not act on Snorlax (4): deg, Kaif, Taka, me
Abstain (0)

Neither reached a majority, so neither was quickbanned or suspected at this time. Have fun playing / building BW in WC, and gl to those still in classic playoffs
 
Good day, everyone! DPP 1v1 leader here bringing you updates on this metagame's viability rankings after Jirachi got banned! Huge thanks to VR council members stravench, Inkreativ, and 187 Fan for helping out in this endeavor!


S
:cresselia:Cresselia (from S-)
:tyranitar:Tyranitar

S-
:clefable:Clefable (from A)
:zapdos:Zapdos

A+
:infernape:Infernape
:raikou:Raikou

A
:celebi:Celebi (from A-)
:dragonite:Dragonite
:metagross:Metagross (from A-)

A-
:aerodactyl:Aerodactyl
:hariyama:Hariyama
:heatran:Heatran
:kingdra:Kingdra
:rhyperior:Rhyperior
:suicune:Suicune

B+
:arcanine:Arcanine
:bronzong:Bronzong (from B)
:empoleon:Empoleon (from B)
:gyarados:Gyarados
:heracross:Heracross
:registeel:Registeel
:rotom-heat::rotom-wash::rotom-mow::rotom-frost::rotom-fan:Rotom-Appliance
:scizor:Scizor
:slaking:Slaking
:swampert:Swampert
:venusaur:Venusaur (from B-)

B
:azelf:Azelf
:gallade:Gallade
:hippowdon:Hippowdon
:sceptile:Sceptile
:staraptor:Staraptor
:tangrowth:Tangrowth
:weavile:Weavile

B-
:alakazam:Alakazam
:ambipom:Ambipom
:armaldo:Armaldo (from C+)
:breloom:Breloom (newly ranked)
:entei:Entei
:gastrodon:Gastrodon
:medicham:Medicham (from C+)
:moltres:Moltres
:umbreon:Umbreon

C+
:azumarill:Azumarill (from C)
:blissey:Blissey (overlooked; from B- since March 27, 2022 VR update)
:electivire:Electivire
:roserade:Roserade

C
:ampharos:Ampharos (newly ranked)
:feraligatr:Feraligatr (newly ranked)
:flygon:Flygon
:gengar:Gengar (from C+)
:jolteon:Jolteon (from C-)
:magmortar:Magmortar (from C-)
:mamoswine:Mamoswine
:poliwrath:Poliwrath (newly ranked)
:slowbro:Slowbro
:ursaring:Ursaring

C-
:abomasnow:Abomasnow
:articuno:Articuno
:camerupt:Camerupt
:cradily:Cradily
:dusknoir:Dusknoir (from C)
:lanturn:Lanturn
:porygon2:Porygon2
:regice:Regice (from C)
:regirock:Regirock
:spiritomb:Spiritomb
:torterra:Torterra (from C)
:walrein:Walrein
:yanmega:Yanmega

D
:blaziken:Blaziken
:gliscor:Gliscor
:houndoom:Houndoom
:lucario:Lucario
:magnezone:Magnezone

UR
:starmie:Starmie (from D)


A highly revamped set compendium will be out once everything has been ironed out; hopefully at the end of January 2024, I would be able to release the compendium along with EV explanations. Stay tuned!
 
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DPP 1v1: Euphonos's comments on council rankings; personal viability rankings

I may be putting up a double post which may be linked to the viability rankings chart that has been updated as Jirachi got banned in the DPP 1v1 metagame, so please bear with me. As I glanced over Pokemon in the lower ranks in an attempt to craft sets worth accessing to newer players, I have made some comments along the way whether the fellow council members - including myself - overrated or underrated such decisions in ranking such Pokemon. For transparency, the viability ranking voting sheet is available here; only those who are part of the council are only allowed to edit the sheet.

Take note that my take on this viability rankings chart is based on my opinion backed from my experience building and playing with such Pokemon. These may be changed provided there is discourse on those Pokemon in question, and as such, these do not reflect the views of the DPP 1v1 council as a whole.

~ ~ ~

:moltres: (Current: B- || Euphonos: B+)
:arcanine: (Current: B+ || Euphonos: B)
First of all, I believe Moltres is one of the most criminally underrated Pokemon in this metagame. I’d personally give this a B+ ranking for how amazing this Pokemon can be due to its Special Attacking prowess only Heatran can eclipse; the current Choice Specs Moltres set is the metagame’s golden standard as it also beats any and all Rotom appliance formes (unless they’re daring enough to run Thunder on Choice Scarf variants). If that’s the case, time is ripe for the fellow Fire-type Arcanine to be in the B tier due to the stiff competition Moltres and Heatran brought to the table.

:tangrowth: (Current: B || Euphonos: B-)
With the advent of Venusaur running rampant in the DPP 1v1 metagame even with the presence of Jirachi in the past (due to its newly updated Choice Specs sets being capable of dealing with most Heracross variants), I think Tangrowth’s hype died down and could be good for a B- ranking. Sure, its physical bulk is massive enough to withstand some of the most powerful physical attacks with ease, but with Special Attackers running rampant this time around, Tangrowth would have a hard time entering the battlefield. Not to mention, Heracross would be able to force its way through Tangrowth’s defenses (even when its HP and Defense EVs maximized) unlike Venusaur.

:alakazam: (Current: B- || Euphonos: C+)
:ambipom: (Current: B- || Euphonos: C+)
I think Alakazam and Ambipom have overstayed their welcome in the realm of the B ranks, and their usage isn’t enough to warrant such. Ranking both Pokemon in C+ is actually enough for these, as Alakazam, while the 135 base Special Attack is appealing, isn’t doing any favors at the moment with a rather sparse Special movepool cursed by the physical/special split, and Ambipom’s damage output is not enough to be able to win matches with STAB Normal moves (Fake Out + Giga Impact); not to mention, Life Orb is one of those items that, while not banned per se, is not recommended as it can actually force draws when that Ambipom is supposed to win matches.

:electivire: (Current: C+ || Euphonos: D or UR)
With Ampharos having its successful debut in Old Gens Premier League and continued to shine in the most recent iteration of DPP 1v1 Cup, and with Jolteon having a new lease in life in the form of Fake Tears, I eventually realized I have no idea how to make of Electivire: its sets are predictable (with only Band and Scarf being present), and new metagame trends definitely aren’t friendly for this Pokemon. Electric-types are actually cursed with dismal physical tools with Thunder Punch being the strongest of the bunch, and with Electivire having a higher Attack stat than Special Attack, I don’t think it would be able to withstand that much longer. The only thing that I can think of as an attacker for Electivire at this moment is either Meditate (good vs. Registeel, albeit slow set-up) or Screech (albeit chance to miss) to power up its attacks, or surprisingly use Counter like Ampharos did; otherwise, I think it should go down to D or even in the unranked section. I believe there is still room for innovation, and I couldn’t be the only one doing all these, so I am patiently waiting for someone who can actually pull off something that would impress even myself to put Electivire back on the map.

:mamoswine: (Current: C || Euphonos: C+)
:ursaring: (Current: C || Euphonos: C+)
I can attest to Mamoswine's and Ursaring's capabilities. First of all, I've been one of the advocates to Mamoswine as one of the premier answers to primarily Dragonite, and of course, I have crafted some of the never-before-seen techs to deal with a slew of Pokemon ranging from Heracross and Hariyama to Venusaur and Celebi, for example (what holds it back to give it a higher raise is its poor match-up against Cresselia). Then, for Ursaring, I have faced a couple through Dj Breloominati♬ and stravench and they're deadly at the right circumstances, and I finally crafted an Ursaring set different to what both Spitfire and stravench used against me and used it against ayedan to good results. Definitely two of the underrated Pokemon not to be messed with.

:magnezone: (Current: D || Euphonos: UR)
Magnezone should have been unranked at this point. For a long time now, I actually have no idea how Magnezone would work given the bulk-centralized metagame trend that has been the norm these days, and former leader Jabiru told me that “ Dj Breloominati♬ just wanted an excuse to use Magnet Rise on a Pokemon”, when Raikou is capable of doing that as well. I wonder what the brothers Inkreativ and 187 Fan have to say about this one.

~ ~ ~

There are some Pokemon that I'm quite skeptical in the aforementioned chart such as Dusknoir, Porygon2, and Spiritomb; hopefully I manage to find ways in making them work. On another hand, I'm actually keen on giving more Pokemon a viability ranking since I myself can attest to their sliver of viabilities over time, but of course I don't want to overwhelm fellow council members with such.

In the hopes of bringing more interest for the DPP 1v1 metagame, I'd like to know about your thoughts on the said comments I've made. If you have any more questions regarding how things work in the DPP 1v1 metagame, either make a reply here, or chat me through Discord!
 
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The ADV 1v1 council has voted unanimously to unban Ingrain from the tier. Ingrain, alongside Leftovers, was banned in 2018 due to the potential to cause endless battles. However, Leftovers was later unbanned and it has been clear since then that endless battles are not a common enough occurrence to be considered a serious problem in the tier. On the rare occasion that one occurs, it is declared a tie and we move on. Ingrain remains banned now only due to an oversight and, although the move is not expected to be relevant in the tier, there is no good reason to keep it banned. Tagging Kris to implement.
 
Some updates to the SS VR

:latias: Latias UR -> D
:Thundurus: Thundurus C- -> C
:carracosta: Carracosta C -> C+
:pheromosa: Pheromosa C+ -> B-
:Aegislash: Aegislash C+ -> B-
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt B -> B+
:heatran: Heatran B+ -> B
:Tapu koko: Tapu Koko A- -> A
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn A- -> A
:aromatisse: Aromatisse A- -> A

I'm stepping down from SS council as well so this will be my last SS update. In my place Mishlef will be the new SS leader so say congrats to him!
 
DPP 1v1 BREAKING NEWS: QUICK CLAW AND FOCUS BAND ARE NOW BANNED!

It has come to my attention that Quick Claw and Focus Band were not part of the DPP 1v1's wave of bans since their inception, especially with this metagame now independent of DPP OU. (For the record, though, people have not used these items because they thought these items were banned!) These two items, in particular, are items that rely on RNG to potentially turn the tide of the battle by moving first (20% chance) and surviving a hit (10% chance) respectively. As the metagame leader, I envision to have these luck-based mechanics to be minimized as much as possible, and these two items being banned continue the trajectory towards a healthy DPP 1v1 metagame.

For transparency, this process involved a bit of council meeting, with thanks to clerica noting that tiering in DPP 1v1 will now be independent of DPP OU, and with me voting to push through with those two items, and eventually led to a council vote. Here are the results of the said council vote:
Particulars​
RESULT​
Bag_Quick_Claw_Sprite.png
Quick Claw​
BAN
BAN
BAN
BAN
BAN
BAN
Bag_Focus_Band_Sprite.png
Focus Band​
BAN
BAN
BAN
NO BAN
BAN
BAN

With that, Quick Claw and Focus Band are now banned. Tagging Kris to implement this change. Thank you in advance!


If you were to ask me what's next for DPP 1v1, it will be the revamping of the set compendium with its respective explanations (which is now in progress!), and I might even get to the extra mile and add another layer to the DPP 1v1 resource! Stay tuned for more content courtesy of the "DPP 1v1's Last Bastion"!
 
The SS Council will be looking over various elements of the meta in the weeks after OGPL and this will likely result in either a community survey, suspect, or something else along those lines. For those who would be interested in being a part of this conversation OGPL will be one of the ways to be considered a qualified voter. Be sure to signup for and play SS this upcoming OGPL!
 
DPP 1v1 BREAKING NEWS: A WORKING SET COMPENDIUM
My apologies for flooding this page with DPP 1v1 content, lol. However, with the second Old Gens Premier League about to be up in the near future, I have decided to showcase a working set compendium with some of the Pokemon having their updated sets! For transparency, here are the Pokemon whose sets are updated, based on the updated viability rankings from the December 11, 2023 post:

S
:cresselia:Cresselia (All sets up-to-date: Bulky Specs updated, Speedy Specs added)
:tyranitar:Tyranitar (All sets up-to-date: Chople x Dragon Dance EVs updated)

S-
:clefable:Clefable (All sets up-to-date: Chople x Counter EVs updated; Offensive Calm Mind updated)
:zapdos:Zapdos (All sets up-to-date: Strong Specs now becomes "Basic Specs"; Anti-Dragonite Specs updated; Anti-Infernape Scarf added)

A+
:infernape:Infernape (Bulky Specs EVs updated)
:raikou:Raikou

A
:celebi:Celebi (All sets up-to-date: Anti-Tyranitar NP added; SubSeed added; Choice Specs shelved)
:dragonite:Dragonite (All sets up-to-date: Anti-Custap Mixed added)
:metagross:Metagross (All sets up-to-date: Anti-Zapdos Tomb added)

A-
:aerodactyl:Aerodactyl (All sets up-to-date: Band becomes Bulky Band)
:hariyama:Hariyama
:heatran:Heatran
:kingdra:Kingdra (All sets up-to-date: All Dragon Dance sets shelved; Special Haban now becomes Anti-Dragonite Haban; Petaya in Rain, Anti-Stall Rain, Bulky Specs added)
:rhyperior:Rhyperior (All sets up-to-date)
:suicune:Suicune (Anti-Dragonite Calm Mind added)

B+
:arcanine:Arcanine
:bronzong:Bronzong
:empoleon:Empoleon
:gyarados:Gyarados (Charti x Dragon Dance EVs updated)
:heracross:Heracross (Salac shelved; Band and Scarf sets updated to Basic mode)
:registeel:Registeel (All sets up-to-date)
:rotom-heat::rotom-wash::rotom-mow::rotom-frost::rotom-fan:Rotom-Appliance
:scizor:Scizor
:slaking:Slaking
:swampert:Swampert (All sets up-to-date: CounterCoat now becomes "Defensive Retaliator")
:venusaur:Venusaur (All sets up-to-date: Anti-Heracross Specs EVs updated)

B
:azelf:Azelf
:gallade:Gallade
:hippowdon:Hippowdon
:sceptile:Sceptile (Leech with Petaya becomes Defensive SubSeed)
:staraptor:Staraptor
:tangrowth:Tangrowth
:weavile:Weavile

B-
:alakazam:Alakazam
:ambipom:Ambipom
:armaldo:Armaldo (Up-to-date: Standard Custap EVs updated)
:breloom:Breloom (Up-to-date)
:entei:Entei
:gastrodon:Gastrodon
:medicham:Medicham
:moltres:Moltres (Up-to-date: Stall shelved)
:umbreon:Umbreon

C+
:azumarill:Azumarill (Up-to-date: Standard Band EVs updated)
:blissey:Blissey
:electivire:Electivire
:roserade:Roserade

C
:ampharos:Ampharos (Up-to-date: Charge x Counter added)
:feraligatr:Feraligatr (Custap added, for EV optimizations)
:flygon:Flygon
:gengar:Gengar (Anti-Psychic Payapa added, still for optimization)
:jolteon:Jolteon (Up-to-date: Specs shelved; Anti-Cresselia Fake Tears added)
:magmortar:Magmortar
:mamoswine:Mamoswine (Band and Custap shelved; Resist Berry now becomes Anti-Zapdos Occa; Close Combat Deterrent added)
:poliwrath:Poliwrath (Up-to-date: Anti-Aerodactyl Encore added)
:slowbro:Slowbro
:ursaring:Ursaring (Anti-Clefable Custap updated from Custap)

C-
:abomasnow:Abomasnow (Anti-Kingdra Custap added)
:articuno:Articuno (Up-to-date)
:camerupt:Camerupt (Up-to-date)
:cradily:Cradily (Custap added)
:dusknoir:Dusknoir
:lanturn:Lanturn (All sets up-to-date)
:porygon2:Porygon2 (Up-to-date: Chople shelved)
:regice:Regice (Up-to-date: Petaya shelved; Anti-Gyarados Specs added)
:regirock:Regirock
:spiritomb:Spiritomb
:torterra:Torterra
:walrein:Walrein
:yanmega:Yanmega (Up-to-date: Standard Yache EVs updated)

D
:blaziken:Blaziken (Band and Scarf shelved)
:gliscor:Gliscor (Up-to-date: Yache becomes Anti-Heatran Yache)
:houndoom:Houndoom (Up-to-date: Chople shelved; Bulky Specs added)
:lucario:Lucario (All sets up-to-date: Bulky Specs and Anti-Metagross Shuca added)
:magnezone:Magnezone (Magnet Rise shelved)

With that, I am in still in need of help uncovering and/or optimizing some of the sets present in the compendium, or creating a better set than what's in the compendium. Those who are willing to help out, you may leave me a chat on Discord!
 
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The ORAS council would like to hear your thoughts on the tier as it was played in WC VII, in this form.

Happy new year!
We had a lower turnout after WC in a somewhat important survey, with 16 voters; hopefully future events have a better turnout.

WC ORAS stuff:
How fun was ORAS to watch in WC?
Average: 3.4375

How competitive was ORAS in WC?
Average: 3.5

How balanced do you think the tier is?
Average: 3.5

Overall, the current metagame is more or less accepted as playable, with slight drops from the PL survey. Not much else to say there.
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1707732964949.png

:snorlax: Snorlax: Average of 2.5.

:darkrai: Darkrai: Average of 3.5625

:blaziken: Blaziken: Average of 3.8125

:latios-mega: :latias-mega: Soul Dew: Average of 2.8125

As the survey results dictate; we will likely be freeing Darkrai and Blaziken (to be confirmed by a council vote) temporarily in the ORAS 1v1 tier in OGPL-2, reserving the right to quickban it if/as they become a problem in the tournament; with a suspect test to follow after the tournament ends. Playing ORAS in the upcoming tournament would hence, become a way to get the requirements to vote on these pokemomn in that suspect.

Wish you all good luck in the coming tournament, and have fun!
 

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We had a lower turnout after WC in a somewhat important survey, with 16 voters; hopefully future events have a better turnout.

WC ORAS stuff:
How fun was ORAS to watch in WC?
Average: 3.4375

How competitive was ORAS in WC?
Average: 3.5

How balanced do you think the tier is?
Average: 3.5

Overall, the current metagame is more or less accepted as playable, with slight drops from the PL survey. Not much else to say there.

:snorlax:Snorlax: Average of 2.5.

:darkrai: Darkrai: Average of 3.5625

:blaziken: Blaziken: Average of 3.8125

:latios-mega: :latias-mega: Soul Dew: Average of 2.8125

As the survey results dictate; we will likely be freeing Darkrai and Blaziken (to be confirmed by a council vote) temporarily in the ORAS 1v1 tier in OGPL-2, reserving the right to quickban it if/as they become a problem in the tournament; with a suspect test to follow after the tournament ends. Playing ORAS in the upcoming tournament would hence, become a way to get the requirements to vote on these pokemomn in that suspect.

Wish you all good luck in the coming tournament, and have fun!

The ORAS council has unanimously decided to suspect Darkrai :darkrai: and Blaziken :blaziken: in the coming months based on the tiering survey. As such, both will be allowed in the tier during the upcoming Old Gens Premier League 2 tournament, where games will use the challenge code:
Code:
/challenge gen61v1 @@@ +darkrai, +blaziken

Live tours will be held after OGPL-2 finishes, where players can additionally qualify through them to vote on the inclusion of these two Pokemon to the tier. Further details about requirements will be posted after the tournament concludes.

Additionally, the move Dark Void was unanimously agreed by the council to be banned from the tier in line with our in addition as part of these unbans, having not come up before due to the only other user (Smeargle) having access to Spore.

Tagging dhelmise to implement the latter change to add Dark Void to the ban list for Gen 6 1v1 (thank you in advance); hope you all have a great tournament!
 
The ORAS council has unanimously decided to suspect Darkrai :darkrai: and Blaziken :blaziken: in the coming months based on the tiering survey. As such, both will be allowed in the tier during the upcoming Old Gens Premier League 2 tournament, where games will use the challenge code:
Code:
/challenge gen61v1 @@@ +darkrai, +blaziken

Live tours will be held after OGPL-2 finishes, where players can additionally qualify through them to vote on the inclusion of these two Pokemon to the tier. Further details about requirements will be posted after the tournament concludes.

Additionally, the move Dark Void was unanimously agreed by the council to be banned from the tier in line with our in addition as part of these unbans, having not come up before due to the only other user (Smeargle) having access to Spore.

Tagging dhelmise to implement the latter change to add Dark Void to the ban list for Gen 6 1v1 (thank you in advance); hope you all have a great tournament!
edit: the council did not intend to unban Mega Blaziken, but since Blazikenite isn't inherently banned, and the council has voted to keep Blazikenite banned; the challenge code to be used for OGPL 2 and suspect tours will be:
Code:
/challenge gen61v1 @@@ +darkrai, +blaziken, -blazikenite

Itchy Heika
 
Making a post for my paramour gloriously bad metagame ^_^

General insight: I think this meta has a reputation for being decentralized which rings true because of all the set variation/lack of obvious top 1/2/3 mons, but ss also has by far the tightest pool of bringable mons which makes it feel incredibly centralized when actually building it. This is maybe the only competitive metagame where loading 2 mons below a- is straight up completely unacceptable (oras would be the other one).

1711945356184.png



The baseline for C rank is "I would consider using this when prepping for a serious 1v1 series." Rankings are based on a general mix of preview consistency, ease to build with, pressure when building. Entei and Drago both output way more builder pressure than the rest of their viability (both are top 3 most restrictive mons in the tier). In terms of power Entei is around bottom of a and drago is around venu/naga in A-.

General Observations:
  • Fini gets the current top 1 spot just for being the most consistent and set diverse rn but realistically its about as good as the 3 mons below it.
  • zio was right about Chansey 2 years ago, that mon is literally so hard to actually check. The main drawback is that chansey forces pretty similar partners and trying to do something quirky (https://pokepast.es/2f966cbb3ec4cdfa) usually means you lose to lefties cress or smth.
  • Rilla is in D rank bc lorb sets r atrocious. No1 is losing to that garbage in 2024 and attempting to build with it will give you a half-the-meta long list. Seed sets are maybe underexplored since you are a lot more consistent into gross than bulu but the ceiling doesnt rly seem high.
  • The gap between the top 10 mons and the rest is very large, theres a significant gap between bulu and pult(/entei) not rly seen in a tiermaker format.
  • Gdarm is in a very weird state, zen has seen enough serious usage now to account for in prep. It's both the hardest its ever been to keep checked while each set has felt the weakest they ever have individually (still very strong).
  • Emergence of lefties cress kinda completely ruined a bunch of Primarina teams.
  • Volcanion sux
Samples are really bad in 2024 so heres some solid teams (not necessarily sample worthy but all are broadly good):
https://pokepast.es/97861ce479f7eae7 :zapdos::azumarill::porygon-z: Trusty Zapdos
https://pokepast.es/74948104d62f577d :chansey::tapu fini::entei: SS Wasian Godsquad (wiki variation)
https://pokepast.es/5ab704c1d35f3d72 :tapu fini::naganadel::metagross: 2022 fini+scarf naga
 
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went 5-1 so i think i did pretty ok in ogpl. thanks to Potatochan for getting me started and being my main team checker. s/o Kaif for building me a good team i immediately lost with + support with LittEleven and STABLE for popping into my channel for ideas. and also to my playoffs supporters that i wont out :heart:

i built most of my teams myself and figured out the tier via good lab work + how i understood the meta at the time and think i got a really good handle of it by week 4 (this was the week when all my series stopped becoming turbo awful to watch btw)

this is probably where my personal VR is. I didnt think too hard after A- tho tbh
1711988464655.png


S+

:clefable: most busted pokemon in the tier. ofc dealing with it in builder is a necessity because it's really fucking good. because the set compendium uses mail, tilt the shit out of your opponent by using apicot spdef twave+encore to deal with most specs assholes barring insane hax and physdef can run counter to beat most things. you can consider ganlon or somethng but i think that's just worse than counter really.

S-

:cresselia: specs renders 1/2 of the tier unviable while CM cress renders a completely different 1/3 unviable. super flexible ev wise and can even slap random moves on the last slot to hit whatever you want. run mail on cm to literally still lose to rotom btw

:tyranitar: dd taunt is beyond its best set to beat like literally every special attacker + substall + CLEF!. counter is pretty good to mix things up but hard to slap on at times just because dd has a very neat MU spread.

:zapdos: substall, specs, and scarf are very good sets in their own right that counter different things. can afford to take random hidden powers to cover weirder matchups like infernape and dragonite.

tbh theres a marginal gap between tar and zapdos, and then another gap between zapdos and the rest

A+

:suicune: controversial but this pokemon goes giga hard! lots of varied unique sets that can tech for different things - while cm is a classic, some things not rly on the compendium involve reflect, citrus, chesto rest, and specs which are quite solid in beating things that you could lose to if they’re strong enough (such as tar, gyara, scizor, hera and the like - week 4 i used it to beat a specs azelf, etc). being weak to clefable cress zap kou is not so good but your matchup spread against a lot of other things is quite favorable

:raikou: specs aura has a winning chance against idiots like clef and can also afford to run random hidden powers to hit stuff that looks like 3-0s. specs is very evable to defeat cress. even faster substall than zapdos is cool. cm access is super nice because it can change its matchup spread a bit but ive been having trouble fitting cm kou on teams that cover the meta well so i havent explored it much

:rhyperior: only rly this high because it's one of clefables best partners which you should spam for free elo! cb anything knocks out a lot of its threats like non endure hera/rhyp tar nite meta aero while also handling randoms like zapdos and some raikou to boot. endure custap doesn’t get a lot of important KOs that cb does but is prob ok enough.

A-

:aerodactyl: fastest pressure substall in the game + taunt exerts incredibly huge pressure in matchups where your opponent will really want to click into it or will otherwise lose. a mon that beats literally most band pokemon, all specs pokemon, clefables, and every other substall while even outplaying stuff like cmers like cress is a dangerous spread.

:metagross: scarf meta is pretty good and is super evable + moveset customizable to beat random things. hp for all nite? yep. speed for max kou? yessir. does not beat aero somehow, so it is somewhat fraudulent. the other choice items have niches too - but i dont really think you should consider using meta in this meta (heh) if it’s not choiced tho imo.

:celebi: super versatile with NP/cm/subseed/choice which makes it annoying to set read (subseed is prolly its best set) but just happens to mostly lose to the two best pokemon in the game lol - and unlike suicune/zapdos it doesnt feel like it really has a justifiable matchup spread otherwise cos they do better into the lower ranks. if they get banned it gets much better, but until then please enjoy being encored to death

:gyarados: dd taunt is very good in this meta again. very evable to randomly handle rhyperior, tar, and spdef clefable all at once which is kind of really fucking big. intimidate can also cheese random matchups and water is just a very nice typing atm as well

:dragonite: not very fond of this pokemon tbh i never really liked thinking ab building it as its hitlist is surprisingly large, ice/rock is kind of a common coverage type from both common and very not good pokemon and also because i felt like it would make me need to make hard reads on sets rather than creating teams that can beat most (standard) pokemon sets overall. for ex specs cress wins, but cm does not. deciding to dd or outrage is also a bit of 50-50 hell into things like counter tar or clef. the right set does do wonders in some MUs but it probably wont shine until teams, on paper, become more optimized (or clef/cress get banned)

:registeel: can just outright win vs most offensive threats by being annoying and boosting up. max def counter beats all band idiots and is probably its best set, and you can even outplay some random taunters like gyara and tar to boot. unless you have the luck of stravench in our last series (all love LOL), no matchup is completely 100 though due to the 1/16 crit rate. taunt and encore ruin this pokemon though, and one of those moves should be on your team at least

:infernape: insane set variety but do some numbers and you start to realize infernape is kind of a piece of shit, no matter what set it runs, cos no matter what its matchup spread it’s kind of really subpar into the tier. yes, it’s really flexible with taunt/endure/np/specs/probably band etc and you need to set guess it but my zapdos uses hp flying, my tar has chople, my suicune uses surf etc

:kingdra: kind of the fringe of b. deceptive set variety, possibly super underexplored. disable is a good move, rain is really good for pwning all tar, sub petaya gets nice KOs too

:heatran: resist berries are probably underexplored, but choice item and taunt allow it to find super good niches in teams (taunt is a good move btw)

B+

:hitmontop: jacob has been beating everyone in tests with this pokemon

kTEnC3izz08XlidBJ_NnaxvJ0AlAilCU4uIpU5szH5oASxvaNlyI0tkhLgcoe7jtUGG-NQ-WMbZ9sQNZEz8ktXhkxpPJLsld9esDmBWNgvFzIrbIRwWHr2rOIToGnC42INgZ69KJz3k6qW-ITHeAXg


LMAO

:slaking: because you can ev this to beat specs cress by sacrificing some speed, you now smack all the S tiers to the fucking moon (besides sub zap/cm cress lol) which is actually a giga spread at times. winning MUs vs any thing not named a normal resist/endure/protect/sub.

:swampert: countercoat deceptively good because you can cheese a lot of matchups. you can kinda run out of smacking pp vs like aero tho. endure is ok but u can feel a bit weak at times.

:moltres: specs moltres is pretty good, strong overheat w/ extra flying coverage for fightings makes its best friend tyranitar happy

:hariyama: guts kinda slams things to the moon, payapa actually does weird shit like pwning celebi, which is kinda cool for a fighter. CB is probably underexplored. hariyama can scrap!

:bronzong: actually does not beat clef, but good typing + good mu against cress and tar is a good niche, and beating like some celebi and dragonite randomly is cool

:heracross: super scary mon in preview if you are a clef elo abuser like me. has actually real set variety in choice/sub/endure. Very sus MUs into the A- ranks but you have real cress win chances and should be able to 100% clef/tar with a broken move that nobody's using (but i'll edit and reveal after finals)

:rotom: not a very impressive matchup spread, but as a ghost type in a clef cress dominated tier it can randomly find crazy impressive 3-0 matchup fishes depending on forme.

B-

:armaldo: CB 100%s tar and stuff while custap deals with other matchups. general cress and zap beater that can also kill dragonite, its coverage is strangely very useful and rock blast access also. your MU spread is weirdly pretty fine

:empoleon: torrent hydro cannon off it’s spatk is a lot and is surprisingly good into weirder offensive teams without S ranks but struggles to beat the core pokemon of the tier. specs is also good but less of a gag because you need to have other defensive investment to beat some of the stuff you’d like a water type to, like eq tar

:scizor: like heracross but it trades less punching power/speed which makes it lose random matchups for a better defensive typing which makes it win less random matchups. notably does not 100% beat clef

:venusaur: custap frenzy plant hurts like a bitzch. being so bad into zapdos and cress is not good tho. specs is not viable i fear

:azelf: specs sets cleans A- and below randoms like a mf, and 115 is a fire speed tier to kill like zapdos/infernape. if it were 116 to beat kou it bumps like a rank

:hippowdon: i ran an endure set week 3 and it was fine. anti electric by nature. curse is also ok. randomly beats tar and meta and lowkey most nape and shit too


everything below has like giga minor niches that i wont cover in the post, special shoutout to some i didn't feel too comfy bringing but actively tried to build around :arcanine: :porygon2: :gengar: :mismagius: :honchkrow:



overall i enjoyed playing this tier! it can get a bit lame in builder, clef is rly hard to actually punish but i do think it’s not the worst thing ever. as someone new to 1v1 I think dpp is the most welcoming tier to new players because it’s probably the easiest tier to “solve” right now. from what i can gather it’s like playing ss but the top pokemon have 2 viable sets instead of 5. which is, well, probably lame if you like to build and be creative and stuff but im a clicker through and through baby.

i dunno if the tier even needs to ban clef per se, because you will need to probably immediately ban cress after, and it’ll make the core teams tar zap suicune esque where celebi and registeel show up at times to randomly also be A+. but that being said current teams ill prepared for clefable become a lot more viable and contestable in preview, and theoretically some other pokemon should get more viable, so we’ll see.

here’s two of my favorite teams - i was gonna reuse these in semis vs stravench

https://pokepast.es/4b8ecfc65ed9a162 :suicune: :clefable: :tyranitar: boring ass apicot clef and tar BUT we have a specs suicune with air slash!! no gyarados/heracross expects to be one-shot by specs suicune. unfortunately has to be relaxed due to the event move but iirc i calced some matchups that actually are helped out by this awful nature for no reason

https://pokepast.es/2bf679b8a93c3b0d :raikou: :rhyperior: :cresselia: cm resto cress!! iirc the raik we’re hp flying for midground heracross cos i figured my opponent would come for my clefable, but you do have a rhyperior, so you can probably change it to another hidden power of your choice. cm rest + chesto + shadow ball is good for beating other cress and stall assholes as vs substall you have enough PP to just +6 and go crazy. you are a bit reliant on rhyperior to get shit done, though.

see ya in pl
 
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With the conclusion of OGPL comes the development of the DPP metagame.

We've seen certain mons being prominently used and I'd like to address my issues in regarding some of them.

:clefable: Clefable has gotten a lot better compared to the previous iteration of OGPL because of the ban of Jirachi. It commonly runs a specially defensive stall set or a physically defensive counter set with the occasional use of the offensive life orb variant because of it's magic guard ability making it immune to life orb recoil which would be detrimental in when in low hp forcing a tie. I fear that keeping Clefable in the tier would not be healthy for the tier. As someone who built for the tier, Clefable is a pain to build against. I found myself needing specific sets just to have a shot at it because it's so versatile that even choice banded fighting types lost to the Chople counter set. The specially defensive set was no slouch either as it could viably beat mons that it normally would not with the help of paralysis and stalling turns with soft boiled. The life orb offensive variant, though niche, still was usable in certain scenarios. All these sets and the fact that Clefable cannot be fully paralyzed this generation makes it rather an unhealthy mon in the meta.

:cresselia: Cresselia is a bulky psychic type cut and dry. It beats what you expect it beats and loses to some mons. Cress was not much of a standout this tour but it was mostly because of Clefable and Tyranitar being everywhere though we'll get to Tyranitar later. It was not showcased enough but Cress could beat most mons of the tier though it comes with the opportunity cost of not being able to do everything which makes it susceptible to being set guessed. It often ran a specs set, or a calm mind set. Both have their pros and cons but both can do their part.

:tyranitar: Since Jirachi's ban, Tyranitar's prominence has been shown but not because of it being broken but rather because it was a versatile glue on the team. Tyranitar beating Cress, Raikou, and Zapdos, 3 prominent mons, makes it that good but at the same time it does not feel broken. There are multiple ways around it that I feel are still in the healthy range of the metagame.

:mail: I asked around and some have mentioned that mail might be a problem and I can see why. Mail in DPP, unlike in the succeeding generations, is not revealed on preview. This limits counterplay and has rendered trick strategies to be unviable. Is it overbearing? I feel like with certain mons it is but in general no.

Thoughts on what should be done
In my opinion, Clefable needs to be considered for a ban. I feel like it has a negative impact on the metagame with the it's incredibly versatile sets. It has rendered some strategies useless. This is one of the rare instances that a stall pokemon is too strong for the metagame. If Clefable banned, do I think Cress becomes too strong? The answer is likely no. A clef ban would lead the way for certain tactics like subseed to be better. Other stall mons might have a chance since there is no mon that just destroys every single one of them with encore. As for Tyranitar, I just felt like giving it a shout out but in reality I feel like it is a health part of the metagame. If for some reason Clefable is not at all banned, I feel like another option is to take a look at mail but that is in a very unlikely scenario.
 
cc: Inkreativ, 187 Fan, Jabiru

:clefable: Clefable has gotten a lot better compared to the previous iteration of OGPL because of the ban of Jirachi. It commonly runs a specially defensive stall set or a physically defensive counter set with the occasional use of the offensive life orb variant because of it's magic guard ability making it immune to life orb recoil which would be detrimental in when in low hp forcing a tie. I fear that keeping Clefable in the tier would not be healthy for the tier. As someone who built for the tier, Clefable is a pain to build against. I found myself needing specific sets just to have a shot at it because it's so versatile that even choice banded fighting types lost to the Chople counter set. The specially defensive set was no slouch either as it could viably beat mons that it normally would not with the help of paralysis and stalling turns with soft boiled. The life orb offensive variant, though niche, still was usable in certain scenarios. All these sets and the fact that Clefable cannot be fully paralyzed this generation makes it rather an unhealthy mon in the meta.

As the leader of the DPP 1v1 metagame, I can definitely attest how Clefable looks more unhealthy the longer it stays in the metagame, especially with Magic Guard preventing any form of passive damage and even full paralysis (latter only applies to Gen 4), which means SubSeed strategies, getting Toxic'd, and getting any shred of full paralysis doesn't matter. While Fighting-types and Taunt shenanigans are the most notable strategies in dealing with Clefable, the former isn't really a safe pick due to the presence of Chople Counter sets that have been gaining traction since the inception of Multigen in 1v1PL VI. There are other Pokemon who are capable of dealing with Clefable that aren't Fighting-types, notably Slaking and Ursaring, but the latter being prone to Encore on turn 1 makes it an uphill battle to climb.

As one of the proponents to at least suspect Cresselia over the past two years, I'm also being dead set into suspecting Cresselia alongside Clefable, but stravench's post still made my reservations to it (which contradicts what Lumii has mentioned to me since the beginning of OGPL); Lumii told me that it takes great heights to deal with Cresselia such as using some niche mons like Jolteon, only to find out it takes greater heights to deal with Clefable than with Cresselia. I think just the presence of Cresselia would be more than enough for the metagame to adapt to it than adding Clefable to the mix, which would be more painful to build in this era.

Before we proceed with whatever metagame updates I'd be doing for DPP, I would like to thank the other following people not mentioned here that helped shape the DPP 1v1 metagame in OGPL II which provided us a lot more insights upon seeing you guys battle: dreepy, Rei, Nuxl, and Slip (with autumn and SuperMemeBroz to some extent as well). Looking forward to seeing you guys participate in DPP 1v1-related projects that we could potentially cook in the near future, so stay tuned!
 
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