No, it will not change all of it. Getting Bernie elected will not mean all of even some of his policies get passed. It will take relentless lobbying of your Democratic congress(wo)men. Our problem is thinking one person can be a hero. It takes all of us, even the “establishment” Democrats people in here despise. What is the plan if Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi can’t get the votes for M4A? What is the plan if Mitch McConnell retains a one seat majority in the Senate?
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Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread
- Thread starter MikeDawg
- Start date
Chuck and Nancy don't even want M4A so the plan would be vote em out or put massive pressure on them. But you make a point, and I think for the reason you listed it's imperative for people to remember to vote in all elections and not just presidential and get more progressives in Congress who will assist Sanders should he win the presidency.
That’s exactly what we’re supposed to do! Let’s just temper the expectation that the President can get legislation passed. They’re merely an advocate that provides a signature.
Medicare For All is a massive overhaul in the largest industry in our economy. It likely won’t happen. The strategic play is to just lower the Medicare eligibility age gradually. It will actually bring down costs in both the public and private markets. Medicare participants will get younger, and the private insurers will have less older folks to cover. Win-win.
RaikouLover I think a lot of my friends who fit in the category of moderate democrats would vote for Trump over Sanders. Could you give me some talking points about why Sanders wouldn't be so bad? I really don't want to pay more to social security and programs as such. I think its unfair enough that between state, city, federal, and healthcare taxes that close to 50% of my paycheck goes back to the government.
On my commission checks its above 50%. I'm 23 years old.... it will only get worse.
I'm very much in the camp of I don't know who to support and I often read this thread , but yeah.
Taxes are an important issue for people who work for their money.
Donald Trump represents oligarchy. His tax bill in 2017 rewarded people people who inherit their wealth, evade taxes, and make money off financial speculation. Donald Trump has spent more time golfing on our dime than any other President. He’s also the only President yet to release his own tax returns! How can we trust that he can use our taxes appropriately when we don’t know his? How can we trust that he wont punish workers again in favor of the wealthy?
Democrats / Bernie Sanders want to make sure your tax dollars are well spent. Bernie believes you should have quality roads and bridges to drive on. Bernie believes you should have the freedom to go back to school, paid for by your tax dollars. Bernie believes a public health care option will give you the freedom to pursue entrepreneurship, rather than be confined to employment. Bernie wants to reward us, the hard working taxpaying citizens of the country.
Which one Energy do you think has our back?
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If you're earning more than 2 mill a year (I assume), would it really even hurt you that much? I'm curious to what is so unfair about tax increases of around 5% for people already very well off, that it is worth poor people having less of a safety net to fall back on?
https://www.bernietax.com/#0;0;s I mean his proposed tax increases aren't even that radical at all. Nobody earning less than $500,000 a year is losing money, and that covers the vast majority of people. You could say that it's a slippery slope but there will be a ton of pushback from Republicans and other Democrats for such legislation anyway, so I doubt the end result would even end up this much.
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What makes you think I don’t have my own criticisms of Gabbard? For starters Gabbard was my 5th choice with Warren a very close 3rd. In the context of Warren and Bernie, the above reasons stated were why I prefer Bernie over Warren. I don’t see how they’re suddenly irrelevant because an entirely separate candidate which I liked for far different policy issues also had a faux pas.
Not sure what Williamson has to do about desalinating my points on Sanders.
I'm probably not the best to answer since I'm not american myself and I don't know much the program of Sanders. I just heard that he wanted to set up the same system than western Europe countries in USA. I'm Belgian so I will explain quickly what it means around healthcare and education.
About Healthcare, it's really inexpensive here. The state covers 70% of your costs (If you go to the doctor and it costs something like 25 euros, you have approximately 20 euros which are given you back). If you buy a private insurance and for about 40/50 euros by months, your healthcare is basically free and at the opposite of some state of US, they cannot hide you if it is expensive (I don't know if it exists in the US but I read that somewhere in the Internet).
Other example with school. I'm in the university, the year costs 800 euros by year. In five years, I will pay 4000 euros for my whole scolarity. On this 800 euros by year, my parents also receive a family allocation to cover a part of this cost (I dont know exactly the fraction, it's something like 15% i guess).
In Belgium (but it is not the case in the other countries of Europe for that), you have also to right to choose any university of the country if you success your last year of high school obviously. It doesn't matter the results you get in this last year.
We definitely pay more taxes but if the number of 50% you give is real, I don't know how America does to pay so much in doing so little for their citizens. It's just crazy to me. Maybe America is poor compared to Europe or there are strong inequalities or your budget for army takes almost every dollar you give to the state but this situation is not normal at all for a civilized country.
When you pay taxes, except corruption, it goes back to you. Taxes allow to pay hospital, schools, roads, etc. Belgium people certainly earn less money than american people but we need less money as well since the big things such as school and hospital is cheap. We are less worried about the future and we can plan things easily.
Maybe this system is not totally possible to build in America but there is definitely room for improvement. It looks maybe like communism for American people but belgian people are happy with that and it's the main purpose. I think nobody should be afraid of socialist policies if it works.
Most people don’t bother unto understand the details. No one in the USA pays an effective tax rate of 52%.
Wonder how much Trump pays? (We will never know)
I dont make more than 2 mil a year (i wish) one thing that people don’t consider is all of the other taxes. So yes my federal tax i believe is at like 23%? And i know that wont go up with Bernie. But theres also city tax where I live, state tax, and all the other taxes. So bernie hiking up some of the additional taxes I pay 10% even though hes not hiking up federal makes a difference.
When you add like 23% federal, 10% state, 5% city, 5% social security etc, thats how you get to people paying too much in taxes
Currently I think Bernie is the lesser of two evils, I’d really like you to try and sell me on Bernie.
We can. Are taxes your most important issue? Is it “too much” if you never had to pay health care premiums again? Or tuition? Tolls on the roads you drive?
What are your other concerns?
How exactly does bernie's tax plan increase the state income tax? Or the...city income tax?
It doesn't.
It increases medicare, medicaid, social security, all that other shit I'm already paying too much for.
I already pay 23% to the federal government for that shit. I pay another 10% for the roads here, 5% for the infrastructure. I don't need to pay more.
Yes, taxes are very important to me because its what I feel every day. It is not the most important issue, but most of the things I care about will be covered by all dems (maybe some better than others.. pro-choice, environment, breaking up PACs)
I got scholarships and am currently paying off college debt. I've worked hard to be able to do that. If Bernie is going to whipe all debt, I want my money back. Where is he getting the money from? Where is he getting the money for anything from? For Medicare for all to be viable, I've read he has to increase the tax by some 30%.
I don't think you all consider the implications of how ridiculous some of the shit he says is.
Thats why I'm sitting her like fuck, is this really the guy I need to vote for.
I want to be convinced that Bernie is going to help solve problems in this country. What happens when minimum wage is now $15 an hour to small businesses? They now start to look offshore where labor is cheaper.
I want to be convinced that he is going to help and I havn't been convinced yet. In fact, I think I'm scared.
I want to be convinced that he is going to help and I havn't been convinced yet. In fact, I think I'm scared.
But how much do you pay for your health care premiums? Here in the Netherlands I pay a tax rate of 37% (49% for everything above ~50,000 euro which I do not make) while my health insurance only costs me ~100 euro per month with a maximum of 385 euro per year co-pay (is that the correct word?) if I actually use my insurance. As far as i am aware, that is way less than you pay in the US. So in the end I'm way better off financially even though I might pay slightly more in taxes.
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There is a lot of misinformation around Bernie’s policies. For starters, the 30% figure for Medicare for All is... bullshit. If we cover the most expensive demographic (65+) for 1.45% FICA tax, does it sound anywhere plausible that would jump 2,000% (factor of 20) to bring on the rest of the healthier adults?
My question to you: if a President could wave a magic wand to get their entire agenda passed, why do we Americans constantly say nothing ever gets done?
Minimum wage is being successfully implemented in many states throughout the country. If the Federal minimum wage has been raised 22 times already, what makes this time be any different? In fact, Minimum Wage should be about $23/hour if it kept pace with its inception.
Then why are the other candidates taking corporate money? As they say, talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.
Campaigns require cash. Until we overturn Citizens United, those are the rules of engagement. It’s a fallacy to suggest PAC money and small dollar grassroots organizing are mutually exclusive. The question earlier was - why should any candidate (including Bernie) turn down $1 billion in campaign resources?
Technically the topic was not Warren v Bernie, or at least that's far from the topic I wanted. The topic was about Bernie supporters, and people responding to my original question brought in Warren, and it got siderailed from there (I'll admit I contributed to this too).
Man, I remember the days when Warren and Sanders were fighting off all of the moderates together and winning together as mom and dad of the progressives. RIP. I have always believed from the beginning they were in this together, and I still believe that. I really don't think Bernie could have fended off the moderates nearly as well without Warren, and Warren has been undoubtedly the best attack dog against moderates in the debates.
They've done this together, they are friends, I want them to win together in whatever capacity that means. It's just frustrating that so many of the Bernie supporters don't see it the same way. I have certainly not been trying to sway them away from Bernie Sanders, just don't like seeing Warren getting bashed after all the good she's done for this movement.
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Dunno which post to quote, so just going to tag Energy and say that hi, hullo, please be a pal and never ever vote Trump. While I do think that some people accusing you of being a millionaire is rather quite odd, I certainly know that my total available income after taxes and insurance will definitely not make me worse off under Bernie and that overall cost and overall available funds is a lot more important than one tax number (you yourself seem to notice this by talking about different taxes compounding upon each other, but there's other things beyond taxes too). I don't want to rehash other people's points, but I am personally hurting quite a bit under Trump and the current state of health insurance, so like just don't vote Trump and count it as a personal favor to me pls.
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That money does not come with no strings attached. There is a very good reason Biden and Buttigieg in particular have so many billionaire donors, it's because they promise to be status quo candidates. If you are reliant on the 1% to fund your campaign, nobody should expect you to be seriously committed to the causes of the 99% which are diametrically opposed. If Bernie was also relying on corporate money to win, I guarantee you that he would backpedal on medicare for all and start singing praises for a public option.
And I think it's time we put the notion that you need the most money to be able to win an election to rest. Trump got outspent by Clinton 2 to 1 and still won, Bernie got outspent heavily in Nevada and won in a landslide, Bloomberg is on track to spend the most money of any presidential candidate in history in the primary alone but is not polling in 1st place.
i have no intention to vote for trump and i will vote Bernie as he is "Less bad"
But I really don't want to be forced to pick between two candidates I think are bad which is why I'd like someone to give me reasons to like Bernie.
All people have said is he isnt Trump. No shit, neither is Biden, Pete, Amy, or Warren. So why Bernie over the others?
I understand at this point he will probably be the candidate so I'd like reasons to like him.
People claiming I'm a millionaire don't understand how tax is broken down, also to be clear, Bernie has said that he will pay for a $15 minimum wage by increasing the federal tax rate to 52% for everyone making over 29K lol. You don't need to be rich to be making 29K. To be clear, if you work 40 hours a week at $15 an hour, you make 31K a year.
He literally wants to tax the fuck out of everyone.
But I really don't want to be forced to pick between two candidates I think are bad which is why I'd like someone to give me reasons to like Bernie.
All people have said is he isnt Trump. No shit, neither is Biden, Pete, Amy, or Warren. So why Bernie over the others?
I understand at this point he will probably be the candidate so I'd like reasons to like him.
People claiming I'm a millionaire don't understand how tax is broken down, also to be clear, Bernie has said that he will pay for a $15 minimum wage by increasing the federal tax rate to 52% for everyone making over 29K lol. You don't need to be rich to be making 29K. To be clear, if you work 40 hours a week at $15 an hour, you make 31K a year.
He literally wants to tax the fuck out of everyone.