Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread

[TheValkyries]

RaikouLover first of all I have outlined why Bernie isn’t performing as well. There’s been near billions of dollars worth of air time devoted to attacking Bernie from the right by every mainstream media outlet not just FoxNews, something done at no cost to Biden as he likes to freely admit “he outspent me massively and I still won!”

Another reason is a generational divide that always seems to happen, whenever there is a movement being charged and gaining steam that leans progressive... in that there is always a massive retaliation from the right. The Civil Rights movement transitioned into the assassinations of a number of its leaders, and a horrible, and violently bloody period of racial strife through the 70s. The first black president was elected and his successor is an out and out Fascist. This country at its core is aggressively right wing, and it will always be hard to win as a left wing candidate.

And you keep insisting that I’m saying Biden and a Trump are the same but you’re wrong. They aren’t the same, but they are still both bad for the country. And the idea that my criticisms from the left are right wing talking points is wildly off base. If anything the reason you would say that is because the right has found extreme success in coopting leftist critiques to weaken the posturing the democrats take, and then using it to continue to push harder right. Obama expanded ICE, but in a way that was palatable to the people not affected. Trump does it in a less palatable way and says “Obama did it so can I” and he’s not wrong. The Democratic establishment and the Republican establishment largely agree on the “what should be done” front and only disagree on the degree of severity in implementation.

 

[Stratos]

The idea that you should show up to vote this November just for the sake of the House's electoral reform bill is actually a good one. Unfortunately it's being championed itt by a guy who just reposts the phrases HR1 and D+6 (phrases I can now see swimming around when I close my eyelids) 3-4 times per page without making any effort to tailor his posts to the guy he is addressing, and calls anyone who is disappointed by the victory of a senile centrist an enemy of the revolution

 

[gvmgvm40]

Joe Biden, Barack Obama, and the Clinton’s are not the enemy.

Clintons, Obama and Biden are absolutely the enemy. Factcheck: They're the ones that pushed NAFTA, repealed Glass-Steagall, instituted corporate welfare and got the US into more wars. Their neoliberal economic policies excerbated income and wealth inequality in the country. They're the ones that caused people to be disillusioned with the establishment and they got someone like Trump elected.

I have no reason to think more of the same will lead to a better result 10-15 years down the line.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Clintons, Obama and Biden are absolutely the enemy. Factcheck: They're the ones that pushed NAFTA, repealed Glass-Steagall, instituted corporate welfare and got the US into more wars. Their neoliberal economic policies excerbated income and wealth inequality in the country. They're the ones that caused people to be disillusioned with the establishment and they got someone like Trump elected.

I have no reason to think more of the same will lead to a better result 10-15 years down the line.

Look, if you have to blame wealth inequality on anybody, you just have to blame it on Ronald Reagan. His administration is the one that cut the top marginal tax rate and made stock buybacks legal. Bill Clinton's administration repealing Glass-Steagall is a bad look, I'll give you that, but the worsening of wealth inequality started with Reagan, so don't try to pin it on Democrats.

I'm going to skip over NAFTA because I think that might derail this thread (there's enough shit there that the conversation would stop being about the candidates and start being about NAFTA)

 

[gvmgvm40]

Look, if you have to blame wealth inequality on anybody, you just have to blame it on Ronald Reagan. His administration is the one that cut the top marginal tax rate and made stock buybacks legal. Bill Clinton's administration repealing Glass-Steagall is a bad look, I'll give you that, but the worsening of wealth inequality started with Reagan, so don't try to pin it on Democrats.

I'm going to skip over NAFTA because I think that might derail this thread (there's enough shit there that the conversation would stop being about the candidates and start being about NAFTA)

Of course it really took off with Reagan, but that's why I wouldn't vote Reagan either. Do you agree that 1) moderate Democrats' economic policy isn't fundamentally different from Republicans, 2) that it was unsuccessful in reigning in economic inequality, but pretty successful in pooling wealth ever upwards, and 3) that people's dissatisfaction with their living standards was an important factor in the backlash that elected Trump?

 

[Kingler]

shame on the dnc for not cancelling today’s primaries, at the very least Tom Perez should never hold an office again

if the Florida results hold it’s very likely four more years of trump in my eyes, hopefully Bernie’s losses are cut a little before end of day in the other states

 

[Laurel]

shame on the dnc for not cancelling today’s primaries, at the very least Tom Perez should never hold an office again

if the Florida results hold it’s very likely four more years of trump in my eyes, hopefully Bernie’s losses are cut a little before end of day in the other states

I genuinely do not believe Bernie would beat Trump if he couldn't even beat Biden. You have to consider that Biden crushed Bernie in nearly every swing state as well.. Bernie is just to far left for a lot of people/

Biden to most of us represents normalcy. Sure he wasn't most of our favorites, but he certainly has a chance of beating a President with a 48% approval rating. People are showing up in record numbers to vote for Biden as well. I wouldn't count the man out yet!

 

[Lrr]

normalcy being evergrowing wealth inequality, a healthcare system that gets an estimated 500,000 people killed per year from inability to get treatment, and an incoming climate disaster as the wealthiest 1% of our country continue to enrich themselves while politicians on both sides of the aisle allow it

but the president won't be making a fool of himself on twitter so I can put my head back in the sand and pretend everything is okay

and if you think Biden is going to meaningfully change any of this, remember that there is a clip of him explicitly telling wall street execs nothing will change under him

Trump is not the disease, he is just a symptom of it.

 

[Kingler]

I genuinely do not believe Bernie would beat Trump if he couldn't even beat Biden. You have to consider that Biden crushed Bernie in nearly every swing state as well.. Bernie is just to far left for a lot of people/

Biden to most of us represents normalcy. Sure he wasn't most of our favorites, but he certainly has a chance of beating a President with a 48% approval rating. People are showing up in record numbers to vote for Biden as well. I wouldn't count the man out yet!

well hence the "in my eyes"... based on the already gaping rift between the two campaign's bases I doubt it gets any better and I'd expect many young ppl to be no-shows on voting day (they had one candidate). you can't win an election with only boomers.

definitely not counting him out though, joe could probably coast through the rest of the primary without needing to put together a single sentence and a very probable outcome of trump's disastrous handling of the coronavirus might hand him the presidency on a silver platter (what a timeline)

 

[politics understander]

Why does no one understand that bernie supporters weren't trying to get you clownish democrats to see that he was more electable, they were trying to get you to see that he has good policies, hence making him more electable. You've been one step behind this entire time and as usual they've had to herd you like sheep.

 

[barton]

I genuinely do not believe Bernie would beat Trump if he couldn't even beat Biden.

i genuinely do not believe rock would beat scissors if it couldn’t even beat paper

 

[Laurel]

Why does no one understand that bernie supporters weren't trying to get you clownish democrats to see that he was more electable, they were trying to get you to see that he has good policies, hence making him more electable. You've been one step behind this entire time and as usual they've had to herd you like sheep.

I gave you all a chance to convince me why I should support Sanders and you all scored a solid F. There was a time I told my family I would vote Bernie because "he is the only candidate that seemed genuine"

At this point, its not as important, but if you would like to convince someone with a relatively open mind, I am still looking to be convinced why I should have supported Bernie.

Yet when I actually looked deeper, I realized, sure he seems genuine but he didn't have real plans. I almost wish Bernie Sanders just adopted everything Elizabeth Warren said.

 

[BLINGAS]

"Return to normalcy" sounds a lot like another political slogan... can't put my finger on it though...

 

[Bughouse]

I assume you mean this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_normalcy

 

[BLINGAS]

No.

 

[politics understander]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding

Harding is often rated as one of the worst presidents in historical rankings.

promising to return to 'the good old days' and being a garbage president has a 1:1 correlation

 

[waddlelee]

still trying to wrap my head around why people think joe "nothing will fundamentally change" biden is an inspiring candidate.

i mean, i could possible see a large turnout solely to counter trump based on some of the primary turnout, but democrats might learn again that "not trump" isn't enough of a platform to run successfully off of.

 

[TheValkyries]

Sorry I just want to highlight the idea of "Historical Rankings" for presidents. Like... some website called Barstool History out here like "The quintessential ranking of all 45 Presidents. Coming in at number 45, William Henry Harrison, who in an attempt to show his steadfast and intellectual nature delivered the longest presidential inaugural address at over 2 hours. His steadfastness and intellectual rigor failed soon after as the cold and wet day helped him fall ill, and he died exactly one month into his tenure. CLICK NEXT."

 

[Myzozoa]

dont trust any system of rating presidents that doesnt have dubya in last

 

[VKCA]

dont trust any system of rating presidents that doesnt have dubya in last

Ha! So you admit Trump isn't the worst president ever. Checkmate, libtard

 

[Sam]

and if you think Biden is going to meaningfully change any of this, remember that there is a clip of him explicitly telling wall street execs nothing will change under him

"The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it’s all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,” he said.

funny how often this quote gets james o'keefed

 

[Lrr]

"The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it’s all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,” he said.

funny how often this quote gets james o'keefed

You should post the whole context of the quote if you want to talk about this

“By the way, you know, remember I got in trouble with some of the people on my team, on the Democratic side, because I said, ‘You know what I’ve found is rich people are just as patriotic as poor people.’ Not a joke. I mean, we may not want to demonize anybody who has made money. The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it’s all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change. Because when we have income inequality as large as we have in the United States today, it brews and ferments political discord and basic revolution. Not a joke. Not a joke. I’m not (inaudible) revolution. But not a joke. It allows demagogues to step in and say the reason where we are is because of the other, the other. You’re not the other. I need you very badly. I hope if I win this nomination, I won’t let you down. I promise you. I have a bad reputation, I always say what I mean. The problem is I sometimes say all that I mean."

This isn't a "we're going to help the people who need it and you guys will be fine because you still have a lot of money," this is a "I'm going to go up there and say stuff but know that I just need to satiate the masses and you guys are my #1"

 

[politics understander]

"The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it’s all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,” he said.

funny how often this quote gets james o'keefed

You must have missed the part where he said it to rich donors, implying he wouldn't tax them to help the poor. Did you just do the thing you criticised others for doing? lmao

 

[Sam]

so he's telling rich donors "you know what in your gut what has to be done" and that it's "all within out wheelhouse" and talks about the fact that income inequality is bad and you read that as...he wants to do nothing?

ok then

 

[Lrr]

so he's telling rich donors "you know what in your gut what has to be done" and that it's "all within out wheelhouse" and talks about the fact that income inequality is bad and you read that as...he wants to do nothing?

ok then

When you cut out the context that makes it looks bad, sure, that is a very easy interpretation to make.

ultimately it depends on whether you believe he is sucking up to them (rich people are as patriotic as poor people, saying he may not want to demonize them, the talk about political discord, saying he needs them, saying he doesn't want to let them down) and saying that they should support him because otherwise a demagogue will be in power and "other" rich people. Because to me this reads like he is saying "hey, I am on your side and looking out for your interests, we need to appease the masses a little bit or they will turn on you, I know you don't want to give up anything at all but you know it has to be done, fundamentally nothing will change though, and if I make it I hope I don't let you down here"

So it's very easy to interpret this as "Biden wants to do the bare minimum to stop people from rising up and supporting candidates who don't think billionaires should exist because he wants the support of said billionaires" especially when he has been adamantly against healthcare reform and his climate change record is spotty at best (I will say that he at least seems pro-most Green New Deal things). The full context makes this negative interpretation even worse than just "fundamentally nothing will change" because it shows that Biden is willing to lie and give a placebo to the rest of the country just to suppress making real change, all to appease this 0.01%.

And this is a lot more complicated because I can see an interpretation of the quote that is a lot more optimistic about what Biden is saying, in a world that relies on someone thinking his policies will help the average working person or fix all those issues I talked about.

But if you and no one you know is not someone who has potential health problems and going to a doctor about it could easily put you thousands of dollars into debt, it's pretty easy to ignore the reality that most americans are in that situation and that it sucks to go online and read comments that read like they come from someone who has never really had to worry about if they'd have a place to live in 2 years or 5 years or 10 years and are too self-centered to realize how lucky they are is really blood boiling

but I'm just an asshole on the internet, I don't have billions of dollars or own a major media outlet so the best I can do is convince other assholes on the internet of my views, my voice isn't worth that much