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I dont think you can simply brush it off as "bad Incineroar" when it still outspeeds many Pokemon that Incineroar naturally doesn't, including your highly-valued Sawk which Torracat can easily burn and tank more easily than Incineroar. It also isn't outsped by other common Fake Out users such as Blastoise and Hitmontop which would threaten Incineroar as well as its teammates.
Raichu has potential in supporting moves like Fake Out, Follow Me and Helping Hand. Lightning Rod redirects Electric-moves from teammates that potentially might be Electric weak, allowing them to run more freely. Also has speed control in Electroweb.
Don't care for this thing but honestly it still stomps some important Pokemon. Has a solid speed tier which is noteworthy, especially combined with moves like Quick Guard to block Fake Out from being able to hit your team. Also has other small niches that shouldn't necessarily be overlooked.
All right, nobody else is doing it, so I'm going to: Mew is too good and should be suspected.
(idk I'm not very good at these kinds of posts, please pretend all the arguments are presented well)
Reasoning: Mew has too many different, good sets, making it too unpredictable.
Just like in 1v1, Mew's most basic "broken" set is
This set can completely invalidate one pokemon in two turns, no matter what pokemon, while copying its moves, making it incredibly good in any matchup whatsoever. Mental Herb + Taunt can shut down opposing pokemon trying to beat mew by taunting/encoring it.
In addition to that set, mew can very viably run a physical set with Life Orb / Weakness Policy, Fake Out, Close Combat, and a bevy of other physical moves, being able to dispatch anything with its coverage, or a special set with similarly powerful coverage (and nasty plot).
These three sets alone already cover so much that it's a singular answer to them doesn't exist. A few pokemon that do well are: Sableye can taunt mew while being bulky enough to take its attacking sets, but loses to mental herb + taunt. Grimmsnarl can do the same, but loses to Dazzling Gleam / Play Rough. Aegislash can outbulk mews attacking sets and hits it hard with shadow ball -> shadow sneak, but loses it if fails to to enough damage, or if the mew carries weakness policy. Double targeting into the mew will usually take it out before it can do too much, but backfires if the mew protects, while spamming spread moves is risky because of wide guard support.
In addition to all that, mew has access to more support moves then any other pokemon, for example fake out, follow me, helping hand, trick room, ally switch, tailwind, both electroweb and icy wind, taunt and encore, making mew one of the best support pokemon in the metagame, outclassing even blastoise and togekiss.
This means even if you have the right pokemon to handle the mew set in front of you you could still lose to its supported partner.
Overall, beating every mew set reliably is clearly impossible and fighting any mew involves too much guessing, which is why it should be suspected.
All right, nobody else is doing it, so I'm going to: Mew is too good and should be suspected.
(idk I'm not very good at these kinds of posts, please pretend all the arguments are presented well)
Reasoning: Mew has too many different, good sets, making it too unpredictable.
Just like in 1v1, Mew's most basic "broken" set is
This set can completely invalidate one pokemon in two turns, no matter what pokemon, while copying its moves, making it incredibly good in any matchup whatsoever. Mental Herb + Taunt can shut down opposing pokemon trying to beat mew by taunting/encoring it.
In addition to that set, mew can very viably run a physical set with Life Orb / Weakness Policy, Fake Out, Close Combat, and a bevy of other physical moves, being able to dispatch anything with its coverage, or a special set with similarly powerful coverage (and nasty plot).
These three sets alone already cover so much that it's a singular answer to them doesn't exist. A few pokemon that do well are: Sableye can taunt mew while being bulky enough to take its attacking sets, but loses to mental herb + taunt. Grimmsnarl can do the same, but loses to Dazzling Gleam / Play Rough. Aegislash can outbulk mews attacking sets and hits it hard with shadow ball -> shadow sneak, but loses it if fails to to enough damage, or if the mew carries weakness policy. Double targeting into the mew will usually take it out before it can do too much, but backfires if the mew protects, while spamming spread moves is risky because of wide guard support.
In addition to all that, mew has access to more support moves then any other pokemon, for example fake out, follow me, helping hand, trick room, ally switch, tailwind, both electroweb and icy wind, taunt and encore, making mew one of the best support pokemon in the metagame, outclassing even blastoise and togekiss.
This means even if you have the right pokemon to handle the mew set in front of you you could still lose to its supported partner.
Overall, beating every mew set reliably is clearly impossible and fighting any mew involves too much guessing, which is why it should be suspected.
I don't believe mew to be broken in the current meta. It's imprison transform set known as "Jailmew" is admittedly very good and should always be taken into account in the builder but I don't think it is too good or in any way overcentralizing. A similar set was too much for 1v1 prehome but this meta is better equipped to handle it, so in this post I'm going to detail the reasons that mew is not broken.
- Mew needs a minimum of two turns to pull off the strategy.
This doesn't sound like much but while mew has very respectable bulk, it typically can't take two turns of attacks. This strategy can obviously be facilitated with fake out, redirection etc but that leads into my next point.
- Mew can only imprison transform one of the opponent's Pokemon.
The fact that mew can only reliably take out one Pokemon with imprison transform means it's often reliant on its partner to deal with the other opposing Pokemon. Again this isn't necessarily hard to facilitate but there's a growing pattern here of a mon that can be over reliant on it's partner. The imprisoned opponent isn't even permanently out of commission either, as if mew is fainted it's freed from imprison. The fact that mew likely took a fair amount of damage whilst setting up the strat means this isn't as situational as it sounds.
- Mew needs too many items.
This one is pretty simple. Mew wants all of mental herb, colbur berry and sitrus berry to perform it's role. Colbur berry is important for the myriad of knock off users in the current meta, Incineroar, Sawk and Zeraora to name but a few. Mental herb is necessary to not immediately lose to taunt, encore, etc users like sableye and whimsicott. Sitrus berry is really helpful to let mew survive long enough to pull off the strat but is rarely seen as colbur/mental herb are both too important to pass up. Again this can be mitigated slightly with clever choices in partners but there's that pattern again, this mon isn't self sufficient enough to be broken, in my eyes.
- Mew's offensive sets are pretty lacklustre.
In 1v1 one of the primary factors in mew's ban was it's ability to beat it's counters with offensive sets. However in this meta, mew's offensive sets are just kind of bad. It's damage output is respectable but often falls short, it often can't beat counters to it's main set like Incineroar and grimmsnarl and they all get wrecked by knock off. They make for decent lures but they're over reliant on surprise factor.
- Mews support sets don't contribute to it being broken.
Mew has a very good support movepool and the stats to back it up, but to be blunt, mons don't usually get banned for their support capabilities. There is also significant overlap in how one would deal with the jailmew set and how one would deal with a support set.
I don't want to undersell mew here, the jailmew set is strong especially if you don't account for it properly and many people don't rn. But it's got it's flaws and it's pretty one dimensional and frankly, I don't see it as broken for the reasons outlined above.
On another note, hidden ability starters have been released so it's Rillaboom time baby let's go.
This thing is really good. It can destroy many things. Sun teams? Earthquake. Bulky physical mons? Even they cannot withstand a choice banded icicle crash. It's even better when you have a second Mon to go with it and use follow me so it can take the bait and then Galarian Darmanitan can just KO the one thing that could've stopped it. And then you win. I swear, just try it on the ladder you will not be disappointed. Now, not to say it needs to be suspect tested or brought to S tier, as it does have a couple of flaws. Firstly, the follow me strategy I mentioned earlier gets ruined by spread damage moves such as heat wave. Secondly, it is not a big fan of intimidate. And guess what? Incineroar, one of the S tier mons uses it. Scrafty, another good Mon does as well.
This thing is really good. It can destroy many things. Sun teams? Earthquake. Bulky physical mons? Even they cannot withstand a choice banded icicle crash. It's even better when you have a second Mon to go with it and use follow me so it can take the bait and then Galarian Darmanitan can just KO the one thing that could've stopped it. And then you win. I swear, just try it on the ladder you will not be disappointed. Now, not to say it needs to be suspect tested or brought to S tier, as it does have a couple of flaws. Firstly, the follow me strategy I mentioned earlier gets ruined by spread damage moves such as heat wave. Secondly, it is not a big fan of intimidate. And guess what? Incineroar, one of the S tier mons uses it. Scrafty, another good Mon does as well.
Let's look at those replays.
1. You crit me when it mattered.
252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 226-267 (75 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (in Doubles)
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darmanitan-Galar in Sun: 629-741 (179.2 - 211.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also, I misplayed and should've used Heat Wave on Torkoal.
252+ SpA Charcoal Torkoal Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darmanitan-Galar in Sun: 744-876 (211.9 - 249.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
2. Crit didn't matter unless they were running a ton of physical bulk, so this one's legit.
3. Legit but opponent thinks it's a good idea to send in 2 frail, Ground-weak mons.
Monkee (Darmanitan) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Superpower
This boy is very stronk. This should be ranked at the same tier as Darm-G because while Darm G may be stronger, Darm-U gets the option to switch moves with life orb and gets stab on its flare blitz which helps immensely in some cases. It also gets trick choice if you want to mess up opposing stall and band if you just want to kill things. I’m not going to make this a super long post because it’s basically the same case as Darm-G except you can switch moves if you want.
It’s also good in sun
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 232 HP / 152 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 64 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
Goodra is really bulky on the special side, sporting a base 150 SpD. This lets it wall almost all of the special side of the meta, and it can brute force its way into the common Sun teams, with it's great movepool having moves to spare like Draco Meteor, Fire Blast / Flamethrower, Thunder / Thunderbolt, Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb, Acid Spray, Dragon Pulse, Hydro Pump, Surf, Focus Blast, Ice Beam, and Counter. (these aren't all super viable but it jsut shows how versatile it is. It also has a lot of item options, with Weakness Policy being the general one since it can usually take one super effective hit on the special side, and then attack for gigantic power with one of its coverage moves. Assault Vest can also be used to make its Special Defense even better (i think it's overkill though). Sitrus Berry is another option if you want to get some extra HP. Here's some cool calcs, tank wise:
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 113-134 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 14.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 122-146 (31.8 - 38.1%) -- 95.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Charcoal Torkoal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra in Sun: 95-112 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO (you're probably getting a hit off, anyways)
252+ SpA Charcoal Torkoal Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra in Sun: 60-72 (15.6 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO (:weary:)
252 SpA Life Orb Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 328-385 (85.6 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (modest can be bulked for)
252+ SpA Life Orb Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 242-283 (63.1 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Anyways Goodra is super versatile in what it can do and can cover a lot of threats with the right movepool / item selection / EV spread and I think it's worthy of being in B or B+ even.
I can add more matchups in a bit but *someone* put a knife to my throat to post it now.
Someone talked about a top 10 moves in 2v2 in room so here I go making a list :)
^Real footage of scrafty using fake out
1. Fake Out - This move defines the 2v2 doubles meta, being able to stop an opponent from making a move while your partner does something is huge, and with the shorter battles that come along with 2v2 it’s even stronger than it is in VGC or Doubles OU
2. Ally Switch - Ally switch is a very effective way to turn a losing matchup into a winning one, providing your opponent doesn’t know you have it. It gives your attacker a free move the first time you use it, and forced mind games every turn after which can be used to win in a bad position.
3. Follow Me - Basically the safer version of ally switch, but forces one Pokémon to take both of your opponent’s attacks.
4. Protect - Very useful in doubles, and can be used in many cases. Protecting with your attacker to set up trick room, blocking fake out, or scouting moves are all extremely strong options for the pokemon with protect.
5. Trick Room - Makes slow mons go brrrr. This move single handedly gives viability to around one third of the 2v2 metagame and shuts down other forms of speed control like tailwind.
6. Tailwind - This move is good for attackers in an awkward speed tier where they aren’t fast enough to work on their own and not slow enough to be good in trick room. Notable mon that was super strong with tailwind is big bad Mr. Vish.
7. Disable - Sableye go brrr
8. Helping Hand - This is often used on a support mon that wouldn’t do a decent amount of damage on its own, so it increases the power of the attacking Pokémon to kill both opposing Pokémon with a spread move or just kill one annoying opposing mon.
9. Taunt - Shuts down most moves on this list, but doesn’t protect you from attacking moves. Still a really strong option if you just want to avoid Ally Switch / Follow Me funny business.
10. Knock Off - Removes an opponents item, and since a lot of Pokémon depend on their item to work, this can often shut down the opponent’s strategy.
Final thoughts: I see a big bias towards support moves in this list, and I don’t think it’s because support is overpowered, it’s just because attacking Pokémon have a variety of options in attacking moves to choose from and one move doesn’t necessarily outshine the other in every situation. You could argue for something like Earthquake or Rock slide though. Feel free to call my opinion trash! Catch me next time for top 10 abilities
Indeedee-F (F) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ally Switch
- Follow Me
- Dazzling Gleam
- Helping Hand
So basically, some people are gonna beat me up for using choice band gyara, you go have fun doing that, but honestly it floors further discussion with Band EQ, especially with Indeedee lending a helping hand, taking all the hits and preventing fake outs. (Ban fake out y/y)
Cinderace
Heavy hittin machine, OHKOs most neutral targets.
Zeraora
Faster less heavy hittin, still nabs KOs against super effectives + weak pokemon
Gyarados
Spam EQ, what else?
Indeedee
That support which you don't want to use but use anyway.
Partnerships:
Main ones are Cinderace + Zeraora and Gyara + Indeedee
Cinderace and Zeraora basically rely on getting quick and simple kills. Fake out the EQer and kill the other, then double team the remaining Pokemon, Simple!
Gyara + Indeedee: Bully Indeedee by letting it take every hit while gyara quick floors everyone.
Cinderace + Gyara: Dont use it, but https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen82v2doubles-1125721622
Gyara + Zeraora: Read ^
Zera/Cinder + Indeedee: Same as Gyara, but with different typing and worse.
Cinder -> A+
Its just so strong, can't provide better explanation than that. Run with sun, run with psyterrain, run with anything except rain. Strong in (nearly) every enviroment.
Monkee (Zeraora) @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
Nomkee (Passimian) @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Gunk Shot
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
monkEEE (Darmanitan) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Superpower
gorilla. (Rillaboom) @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drum Beating
- Darkest Lariat
- Fake Out
- High Horsepower
You might have noticed, all of these Pokémon are eutherian mammals constituting the taxonomic order of primates. And that is because these Primatomorphae all work very well together. Zeraora is the main fake out abuser, faking out one of the opposing Pokémon so that one of its partner Chordates can attempt to make one of the opponents faint. Passimian is the main anti intimidate Pokémon, with defiant actually raising its attack when its attack is supposed to be lowered. This is very useful because people will instantly click their intimidate Pokémon when they see a team of full physical attacking Cercopithecidae. Darmanitan is the heavy hitter of the group, reaching Mach speed with choice scarf while also hitting like a truck with sheer force boosted flare blitz. Darmanitan will often One-Hit-Knock-Out many of the popular Pokémon in the meta before they can even move, leaving only one Pokémon for its fellow Callitrichidae to finish off. Rillaboom is the secondary fake out user and also a form of speed control to support its teammates. Drum beating in grassy terrain reaches 104 base power which is enough to knock out things like sylveon in one hit. If you are planning on using this team, you should know that there are no specific partners necessary to make this team work best, you should really just choose the best Daubentoniidae for the situation and let them go MONKEE MODE
My personal VR noms after playing 150 something games on ladder:
-> A-
It rivals Venusaur as a partner on sun teams, tbh. With Libero getting released, having great STABs for Fire, Poison, Fighting, Steel, and Normal is nothing to scoff at and it can fill a great amount of roles for whatever your team needs. This is why I prefer it over Venusaur, since it compliments Torkoal much more nicely as a physical attacker that doesn't get bopped right as weather shifts from sun. It isn't just limited to sun though, I just felt that Cinderace does the best on sun. Sadly though it does get bopped by well played TR along with having to 50/50 sand (if running sun) since they can predict a HJK and Protect, which is why I'm not nomming this higher.
-> B-
Haven't really played around with it, yet, but it gains Grassy Terrain now and Grassy Seed works like a charm versus physical attackers. It also has Drum Beating which is a really nice utility move for both slowing down the opponent and hitting it hard with it already having a boost. The only reason that why this isn't higher is because it's almost hard countered by sun teams, but has decent matchups otherwise, with a partner.
B- -> B
Guts Drain Punch is super powerful and Mach Punch is great priority. If you can get a TR set up, or just a strong attacker on the opponent's side off the field, this can wreak havoc provided it has the right coverage. Not much else to say here, it's really clean.
Also, can someone explain to me why is ranked at all? I don't feel like just being able to set weather should get you anywhere, especially when the weather setter in question can get destroyed by almost every other weather setter (Torkoal, Tyranitar, Pelipper). I probably could be missing something crucial that leaves it in the C rank but from one's perspective who has 1) Never seen this on ladder, 2) Never seen this in tours, 3) Never seen the use of this as a setter in general, and 4) Can't even find anything good to pair this with (other than Ninetales-A which will also not help VS the weather matchups, maybe other than rain).
With the starter Hidden Abilities Back, i’ve been meaning to try this new team idea- Rillaboom + Hawlucha. Rillaboom + Hawlucha is 2 mons that go well together. You probably already know about what this does, but if you dont know, here is a quick rundown. Hawlucha pairs very well with grassy terrain, which gets summoned upon Entry using rillabooms new ability- Grassy Surge. With a grassy seed hawlucha essentially gets +1 defence and +2/x2 speed using its own ability- Unburden
Rillaboom @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Wood Hammer
- Substitute
- Knock Off
I have been using these 2 as the basic idea of the team. I want some bulk w rillaboom and max hp gives me that without worsening my attacking power. Fake out is a great move, click it t1 if you are sure you are fast then the mon you are faking out and if a faster mon will fake you out, dont. (Example- Zeraora) Sub because subsitute lets you set it up when you predict a protect or if the opp cannot touch you, allowing you to get grassy terrain recovery and protection. Hawlucha‘s set is very simple. Swords dance up on protects or if they cant touch you, t2 you always move first and most likely pick a k.o due to your power and the ability to almost always move first. I like this duo as a offensive core as they both post good coverage for each other. Although they do have their weaknesses
I Also talked about the weaknesses there
Possible Weaknesses to this duo-
Fast Fake Out-ers- These Mons post almost always a strong offensive presence and hawlucha is ever so weak to these. Protect can be used to help against these
Zeraora- With Plasma fists it k.o’es lucha and lucha doesnt pick up a OHKO on this at +0 attack
Sun Trick room -Protect trick room w torkoal poses a major threat to this duo
Possible TeamMates-
Semi Trick room- 2 Mates can be a trick room setter/bulky mon + a slow offensive threat. These with good type coverages can pose a threat to the aforementioned weaknesses and provides a bulky aspect to this team
A Solid Scarfer- GalarManitan, UnovaTan and ninetales can provide a scarfed to beat the pesky faster mons and provide Extra Power
This seemed like an interesting duo so thought i‘d share it
Will Post More Replays once i play some more 2v2 Doubles
With the starter Hidden Abilities Back, i’ve been meaning to try this new team idea- Rillaboom + Hawlucha. Rillaboom + Hawlucha is 2 mons that go well together. You probably already know about what this does, but if you dont know, here is a quick rundown. Hawlucha pairs very well with grassy terrain, which gets summoned upon Entry using rillabooms new ability- Grassy Surge. With a grassy seed hawlucha essentially gets +1 defence and +2/x2 speed using its own ability- Unburden
Rillaboom @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Wood Hammer
- Substitute
- Knock Off
I have been using these 2 as the basic idea of the team. I want some bulk w rillaboom and max hp gives me that without worsening my attacking power. Fake out is a great move, click it t1 if you are sure you are fast then the mon you are faking out and if a faster mon will fake you out, dont. (Example- Zeraora) Sub because subsitute lets you set it up when you predict a protect or if the opp cannot touch you, allowing you to get grassy terrain recovery and protection. Hawlucha‘s set is very simple. Swords dance up on protects or if they cant touch you, t2 you always move first and most likely pick a k.o due to your power and the ability to almost always move first. I like this duo as a offensive core as they both post good coverage for each other. Although they do have their weaknesses
I Also talked about the weaknesses there
Possible Weaknesses to this duo-
Fast Fake Out-ers- These Mons post almost always a strong offensive presence and hawlucha is ever so weak to these. Protect can be used to help against these
Zeraora- With Plasma fists it k.o’es lucha and lucha doesnt pick up a OHKO on this at +0 attack
Sun Trick room -Protect trick room w torkoal poses a major threat to this duo
Possible TeamMates-
Semi Trick room- 2 Mates can be a trick room setter/bulky mon + a slow offensive threat. These with good type coverages can pose a threat to the aforementioned weaknesses and provides a bulky aspect to this team
A Solid Scarfer- GalarManitan, UnovaTan and ninetales can provide a scarfed to beat the pesky faster mons and provide Extra Power
This seemed like an interesting duo so thought i‘d share it
Will Post More Replays once i play some more 2v2 Doubles
I don’t think you need max speed on Hawlucha since fastest things you need to outspeed are Scarf Darm and Zeraora, which you can do at 0 speed with Unburden (i guess 285 is a good speed to outspeed Venusaur in the sun)
Sun also is a big threat to Rillaboom teams, since you’re almost always sending out Rillaboom. It’s also hard for Hawlucha to break through Torkoal, the most common sun setter
Krytocon: So me and BoopToOblivion decided to make a sample team real quick.
We started with Incineroar and a set which beats a few mons commonly picked into it: Inner Focus Fighting types (Sawk, Lucario and Hitmonchan are a few I've seen)
Incineroar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 24 Def / 112 SpD / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Taunt
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Chople Berry Incineroar: 333-393 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Incineroar: 333-393 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
EVd to outspeed mons that outspeed 0 investment base 65s
Now Primarina pairs really really well with Incineroar (and also keeps that USUM Starter vibe going). Incineroar covers a lot of grass types for Primarina and it really enjoys Fake Out support too. Liquid Voice is used for a STAB spread move which doesn't damage your teammate and Weather Ball gives you a Fire type attack if you need to pair it with Torkoal.
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 188 SpD Primarina: 265-312 (72.8 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Torkoal Eruption (75 BP) vs. 252 HP / 188 SpD Primarina in Sun: 43-51 (11.8 - 14%) -- possible 8HKO (after damaging Torkoal with Hyper Voice)
Boop: So, after we started off with Kryto's core of Incineroar and Primarina, we jointly noticed a major flaw: Rain teams. To counteract the classic Pelipper set, we opted for a classic Torkoal + Venusaur, Venusaur providing the super effective attacks against Water types while Torkoal lies there in the sun and hits stuff. With Venu's set, we were using Earth Power / Sludge Bomb / Giga Drain / Protect, but we soon replaced protect with Sleep Powder, just because we don't enjoy having friends. (Also yeah, it does a good job of temporarily disabling a Pokemon.) This is still replacable with Weather Ball (Strong Fire coverage and/or a Water type move if they somehow get rain up). On Torkoal, we went for Earth Power (nabs an OHKO against Zeraora and Cinderace and the like), Solar Beam as nice grass coverage, Heat Wave as main STAB / chipping opponents, and Yawn, because we despised the few friends desperate enough to stay with us. I'd love to say we optimised the EVs for these two, but we just went for classic EVs. Later on, we decided to change Yawn with Clear Smog to help deal with opposing set-up.
Torkoal @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam
- Clear Smog
The team (click for link):
Weaknesses:
Pelipper, the main rain abuser, doesn't have a single super effective answer on this team. It only really becomes a threat once it kills Venusaur with Hurricane.
Hitmontop, we had a discussion about whether to edit Incin's EVs to outspeed Hitmontop, but we decided against for now. Again, not much of a threat, but it can sometimes kill Incin on turn two while it's two busy focusing on other Pokemon.
Weezing disables Primarina's water STAB with Neutralizing gas and Torkoal's sun, allowing it's partner to outspeed Venusaur and deal with it. However predicting a Weezing pick and picking Incineroar and a mon to best deal with a potential partner can help deal with this threat.
And Finally...
HAX! THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO IF HAX DECIDES IT DOESN'T LIKE YOU!!
BoopToOblivion and Krytocon take no credit for any frustration, upset, anger or general distress that hax on the 2v2 ladder may bring.
Have fun using the team!
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 64 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
torkoal is the sun setter of this team, and is the most important aspect of it, boosting both venusaur and cinderace. i chose cinderace as a partner because it compliments torkoal as it gets a very strong pyro ball from sun, along with nice coverage and typing with libero, fast speed, and is physical to stop special walls in their tracks. venusaur fills the hole that this team has against water types like gastrodon, which otherwise wall this team. goodra, which i had brought up how good it was in one of my previous posts, is very versatile and can wall off any special attackers which also compliments torkoal's physical defense quite nicely. assault vest is just for ultimate tanking power and generally can beat almost anything on the special side and helps the sun / rain mu.
i guess this is a sample team submission but it is probably bad because i made it
I don’t think you need max speed on Hawlucha since fastest things you need to outspeed are Scarf Darm and Zeraora, which you can do at 0 speed with Unburden (i guess 285 is a good speed to outspeed Venusaur in the sun)
Sun also is a big threat to Rillaboom teams, since you’re almost always sending out Rillaboom. It’s also hard for Hawlucha to break through Torkoal, the most common sun setter
1. Ye you dont need max speed. In that case run 204 hp 252 attack adamant 52 speed. outspeeds venusaur in sun. Although i didnt think this through, after grassy terrain it outspeeds more stuff with max. Although you dont want hawlucha lasting very long. Also Hawlucha wants some speed if you face an odd matchup where you are not going rillaboom.
2. Yes sun, espec torkoal is a major problem with the duo, which is where teammates like goodra and solid scarfers help as team-mates.
1. I'm the host of the tournament, any question should be directed to me.
2. The qualifications will run for a week. After the cycle, the top 4 accounts that appear on leaderboard will qualify (Using ELO).
3. These four players will be put into seeds (#1 vs #4, #2 vs #3)
3. In order to sign up, follow the Sign-Up format below and register your account on PS!
Format:
Code:
Forum name: Mubs
Cycle 1 Alts: 2vMLT Mubs, 2vMLT Pokesart, 2vMLT MubsP
Do my alts for Cycle 1 contain my forum name or a very similar variation/abbreviation of it as required by the rules?: Yes!
2vMLT is the prefix.
YOU MUST SIGN UP WITH YOUR FRESHLY MADE ALT BEFORE STARTING BATTLES WITH IT. Your alt must be registered on the day of sign-ups or onwards to prevent people from registering an account beforehand and laddering with it to gain and unfair advantage. It's very easy to check when an account was registered and we will be checking to make sure people comply. You will be allowed to include 2 to 3 alts in your sign-up for each cycle. You will not be allowed to edit these alts after you include them in your initial sign-up for any given cycle. By the way, make sure to register your LT alt on Pokemon Showdown!. It is advised that you once you sign up here, you immediately register the accounts on PS afterwards
Given that this is a ladder tournament, many of you are likely thinking there are ways people can cheat the system. Any person found cheating will likely be subject to punishments.
Deadline is Next Saturday at 6PM GMT-4. May the odds be ever in your favor
Forum name: pqs
Cycle 1 Alts: 2vMLT pqs, 2vMLT pqs 2, 2vMLT pqs 3
Do my alts for Cycle 1 contain my forum name or a very similar variation/abbreviation of it as required by the rules?: Yes!
Forum name: Lkjc
Cycle 1 Alts: 2vMLT Lkjc, 2vMLT IBM, 2vMLT BWOU
Do my alts for Cycle 1 contain my forum name or a very similar variation/abbreviation of it as required by the rules?: ahaha
to UR, bad Incineroar
to UR, bad Raichu-A
to UR, bad.
-> A-
-> B-
B- -> B
is ranked at all? I don't feel like just being able to set weather should get you anywhere, especially when the weather setter in question can get destroyed by almost every other weather setter (Torkoal, Tyranitar, Pelipper). I probably could be missing something crucial that leaves it in the C rank but from one's perspective who has 1) Never seen this on ladder, 2) Never seen this in tours, 3) Never seen the use of this as a setter in general, and 4) Can't even find anything good to pair this with (other than Ninetales-A which will also not help VS the weather matchups, maybe other than rain).
