Metagame 2v2 Doubles

Apologies for the double post but now that we're finished with "Melmetal: The Playing Phase", I'd like to discuss the current state of the meta. Apologies if any of this is incoherent, especially near the end. As always I ended up writing this in the middle of the night so I'll just blame any errors on that.
As previously discussed this thing is an absolute monster. Double Iron Bash is just ridiculous and while it's coverage isn't what you'd call extensive, it covers what it needs to. EQ/High Horsepower are great for the fire types that are it's biggest threat (fighting and ground being primarily physical types, it's rarely at risk of being OHKOd). Ice punch is good for the aforementioned ground types whilst thunder punch can help it break through bulky waters that resist Bash. Darkest lariat is nice for Necrozma right now but lacks utility outside that and it's got a few fighting type options for hitting other steels and Incineroar.

As for items it's got good options in that regard. Choice band is just a killing machine and honestly your best option is just to kill it before it kills you (challenging but by no means impossible). Band is supplemented very nicely by assault vest which patches up it's special bulk at the cost of power. It doesn't get the same OHKOs but can stick around a bit longer and in certain matchups that is invaluable. These are it's best sets imo but it can run other items to good effect. Air Balloon is nice vs sand and other Melmetal, sitrus berry is good because of course it is, lefties can nice but are generally outclassed by sitrus, life orb is good for abusing it's incredible power without being choice locked (being able to protect is super nice which neither of it's main sets can), hell even occa berry can help it against those pesky fire types. Also it's obviously amazing in trick room.

Now for it's matchups against the meta. It's got a good mu vs sand especially with balloon as it destroys ttar and smacks Exca with ground coverage of choice. It can struggle with Hippo, but if you run 108 speed evs, you'll outspeed and flinches can help you break it eventually. Melmetal absolutely annihilates the Indeedee+Hat pairing though they are often paired with sun. It has good mus against Pult, Whims, ScarfGarm (band can kill on a roll but you're slow enough that it can be finished off pretty easily so I'm hard pressed to call it a winning mu), Kyurem, Terrakion(band CC is a roll to kill, nothing else can), Necrozma (heat wave stings but split damage means you're basically ok) and most things in lower tiers.

However Melmetal is not without bad mus. Incineroar and Arcanine are hard to deal with especially with balloon and sun in general is a hard mu. Rain can also overwhelm it with strong special water attacks and the classic combo of a water type with a lightningrod mon can really cause issues for band. Heattom and Washtom both matchup well and it can struggle with ferro since fighting coverage is often left out. It's also prone to being being double targeted since it's slow and specially fragile. Don't get me wrong this mon is phenomenal and is having a huge effect on the meta but I think a suspect is more in line with it's power level than a qb (though a suspect is almost certainly necessarily imo)


IMG_20200302_021019.png

He's back. To likely nobodies surprise, Incineroar is still very good especially given the current meta. Air Balloon Incineroar is one of the best ways to beat Melmetal and a fantastic Necrozma check to boot especially if it's specs (Necrozma can run power gem but that hits pretty much nothing else of note). It also deals handily with Garm and Indeedee/Hat. Hates Keldeo and really hates Milotic but fake out can help you circumvent that. Assault Vest with intimidate can make it very hard to OHKO

Fake out is obviously the biggest reason to use the cat along with intimidate but it has more advantages. Stab knock off is always great and flare blitz is also a great. Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers even further while snarl does similarly to special attackers.

It's main issue is that it competes directly with Arcanine which is another excellent Pokemon. Each has advantages over the other. Incineroar is slightly bulkier and has fake out, whilst Arcanine has recovery and better SpAtk if needed. Honestly, both are great, pick whichever suits your needs.

So after all that nomming Incineroar to tier 1.5. It's really good but it's still early days for the cat so putting it in tier 1 straight away seems hasty.


These are all gonna be short because I accidentally deleted an hour's worth of work on these mons and my sanity has worn thin.
-Zeraora: Fastest fake out in the west, good physical coverage moves and pairs well with Melmetal. It's good
-Keldeo: Also synergizes well with Melmetal. Bad coverage for the meta but honestly it hits hard enough that it doesn't matter sometimes. Preys on incineroar which is nice. Good
-Necrozma: Crazy strong, especially with Psyterrain. Life orb is better than specs or wp imo. Really good.
-Kyurem: Haven't used but seems decent from what I've seen
-Primarina: Haven't used or seen much of but on paper it's got some good mus
- Venusaur: Sun is good and this is the best sun Mon. It's good


-Sun: Sun is really good right now, taking advantage of Melmetal in particular and the fact that the new changes have made sand worse. Venusaur is also a super nice addition to sun squad.

-Rain: Still good, as always.

-Kommo-o: I really like bulky special attacking Kommo-o right now (assault vest or sitrus). It has good mus vs Melmetal, sand teams, sun teams, Incineroar, Keldeo, Ferro and appreciates Melmetal making fairies worse. Despises Necrozma but otherwise it's got a pretty good mu chart and could be worth moving to tier 2.

-Milotic: Incineroar is good and Milotic takes advantage of it in a huge way thanks to competitive. It's not a huge thing but it pairs really nicely with the myriad of things that don't like the cat.

-Hatterene: This thing needs to drop a tier. Hates Melmetal, hates Incineroar, often outclassed by Necrozma, yeah it's in a bad state rn.

-Hippowdon: Sand setter that ain't weak to Melmetal. Nice

-Excadrill: Air Balloon Exca is best Exca don't @ me

- Gyarados: Nice Melmetal+Keldeo check when paired with a lightningrod mon to stop tpunch. That pairing is pretty good so that's a valuable niche.

-Raichu: Follow me and Lightningrod are illegal together, for fuck sake, give the rat a break :psysad:


:psyglad:
Thanks for reading. These are just my observations on post home meta and they're somewhat based off an admittedly limited playing phase so in conclusion.... Melmetal is busted, suspect that boi
 

Mubs

Formerly Pokesartoolcay
is a Pre-Contributor
:ss/melmetal:
The council has decided to have Melmetal suspect tested. We will have 7 suspect tours throughout the week, at around 4 PM Eastern. The runner up and finalist get reqs, and they're double elimination. On the weekend, it will be a bit earlier. WIll edit when decided on those. The first one in an hour.


Also, the 1v1 room has given us a temporary subroom for the suspect, check it out! Make sure to send your thanks to Felucia n_n.
 
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Disable
- Encore
- Substitute

Togekiss @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot

Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 20 HP / 228 Def / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Weather Ball
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Fake Out
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat

very good team
 
anyways that post was too short so :melmetal:
Holy shit this pokemon really is good with Double Iron bash/Eq/Darkest Lariat/and Thunder Punch/SuperPower.
even tho if you don't kill the fire types with EQ you really are screwed :Torkoal: :Venusaur:
then again TR(Trick Room) is good aswell and you can run protect on Melmetal :Dusclops: :Oranguru:
But really tho when I get reqs for this thing I'm Voting ban because you shouldn't have to run sun to beat this monster
 
:Venusaur: :Torkoal: :Melmetal: :Darmanitan:
I just Love how these 4 Mons Interact(I run Sun so ik how this be)
:Venusaur: Usually Beats :Melmetal: with Weather Ball :Torkoal: can go either way with :Torkoal:
:Venusaur: Usually Loses to :Torkoal: :Torkoal: Sometimes Loses to EQ :Melmetal: but wins usually
:Venusaur:Usually Loses to :Darmanitan: With Flare Blitz.but Sludge Bomb might kill and Earth Power Kills,:Torkoal: Earth Power V EQ :Darmanitan: is close but Darm Wins
:Melmetal: has chances to beat :Venusaur:,:Torkoal:,and :Darmanitan: but it usually loses
:Darmanitan: Flare Blitz beats :Venusaur: and :Melmetal: and EQ beats :Torkoal:
but at the same time all of these 3 pokemon could kill it.
 
:Venusaur: :Torkoal: :Melmetal: :Darmanitan:
I just Love how these 4 Mons Interact(I run Sun so ik how this be)
:Venusaur: Usually Beats :Melmetal: with Weather Ball :Torkoal: can go either way with :Torkoal:
:Venusaur: Usually Loses to :Torkoal: :Torkoal: Sometimes Loses to EQ :Melmetal: but wins usually
:Venusaur:Usually Loses to :Darmanitan: With Flare Blitz.but Sludge Bomb might kill and Earth Power Kills,:Torkoal: Earth Power V EQ :Darmanitan: is close but Darm Wins
:Melmetal: has chances to beat :Venusaur:,:Torkoal:,and :Darmanitan: but it usually loses
:Darmanitan: Flare Blitz beats :Venusaur: and :Melmetal: and EQ beats :Torkoal:
but at the same time all of these 3 pokemon could kill it.
#1 torkoal is S+ tier and beats darmantitan and melmetal(how in the hell u think torkoal can't tank an EQ from darm or melmetal) "close but darm wins"
252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 172-204 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Torkoal Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Darmanitan: 390-460 (111.1 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Melmetal Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Torkoal: 288-340 (83.7 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yes, torkoal can kill melmetal also.Trust me.
Only way venu beats darm is sleep powder hax, sludge bomb does shit and venu doesnt get earth power

TLDR: torkoal deserves tier 1

EDIT:I have been informed by Calem Xavier that venusaur does in fact get earth power now. That said, im pretty sure darm is faster than venu and kills with flare blitz.
 
Last edited:

Mubs

Formerly Pokesartoolcay
is a Pre-Contributor
The nice thing about the room is that it kinda provided a level of playability similar to a ladder, which allows people to show off their innovations. I’ll share a few of my thoughts:

:Melmetal:

As centralizing as many people think. It's amazing, and you have to run some sort of special fire coverage or Will-o-Wisp to beat it, and it synergizes very well with TR builds. I also saw some users using bulldoze Dusclops with it, which is a cool tech to outspeed Torkoal and also allows you to run WP and just bash checks. Really hope it gets banned.

:incineroar:

It's shown to be really good, and I see Arcanine probably needing to drop because of it. For lack of recovery, it has fake out and a nice prankster immunity, along with dark STAB. Should probably rise.

:excadrill::tyranitar:

These things kinda dropped off as of recent due to the use of sun just being a hindrance to them. I could see them dropping

:Torkoal::venusaur::Charizard:

Sun’s getting better and better. Should rise.

As always, thanks for playing 2v2 (or reading if you’re passing by) and have a nice day.
 
I just here to post a team to beat the annoying Sun
Pelipper @ Iron Ball
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Shock Wave
- Hurricane
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
:Pelipper:
Now the 1st thing you might wonder is Iron Ball? Yep, this is Made to get Rain up against Torkoal. It Doesn't help that some Torkoal run 116 Speed to beat melmetal. and if Torkoal runs Iron Ball no Specs for it which hurts it greatly.
Shock Wave is their because Pelipper doesn't need much coverage but it has the boon of beating Gyarados and Opposing Pelipper with this nice.
Hurricane is its main STAB move and so is Hydro Pump with Rain Boost and Stab Boost that if you don't miss
Ice Beam is there for Neutral Coverage.
Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Ice Fang
- Waterfall
- Psychic Fangs
:Barraskewda:
This Pokemon is made to fit with Pelipper.
Except to use Waterfall A lot, CC, Ice Fang, and Psychic Fangs are Coverage.

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Bulldoze
- Trick Room
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp
:Dusclops: and :Melmetal:
Melmetal @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Darkest Lariat


As centralizing as many people think. It's amazing, and you have to run some sort of special fire coverage or Will-o-Wisp to beat it, and it synergizes very well with TR builds. I also saw some users using bulldoze Dusclops with it, which is a cool tech to outspeed Torkoal and also allows you to run WP and just bash checks. Really hope it gets banned.-Pokesartoolcay and I 100% Agree
 
9599AA45-A404-421F-B990-C1400A87BFCB.jpeg

Suggesting VR shifts for 3 particular mons
:Zeraora: Rank 3 -> Rank 2
:Pincurchin: UR -> Rank 5
:Raichu-Alola: UR -> Rank 5
These mons work so well together I just needed to get this out there. Not gonna do a huge post about the meta because melmetal still exists.

While electric terrain’s damage boost got nerfed this gen, the amount of mons that can counter electric terrain strats was lowered as well. Banded or Shuca Zeraora tears through the meta right now with Plasma fists and Close Combat nukes, and when boosted by electric terrain from pincurchin or helping hand from Raichu, becomes a serious threat. Nothing can reliably live 2 hits from zeraora.

Pincurchin is a good user of electric terrain and enables such shenanigans from zeraora. It has decent support options like memento and thunder wave to neutralize a would-be threat, and can also work as a healer to zeraora with discharge.

Raichu is a good abuser of electric terrain because it’s surge surfer ability lets it run 0 speed and still outpace most of the metagame, reaching 512 speed. It can use helping hand to support zeraora or become a strong electric nuke alongside pincurchin.

Overall, the whole is better than the sum of its parts, and these 3 mons have really good chemistry together and can pull of wins against all odds.
 
Seeing as I've become top 3 in points and am now quite familiar with the tier I'd like to talk about the tier as a whole, this will be somewhat rambling I plan to make a more in-depth post after the Melmetal suspect.

-Starting off with public enemy number one, Melmetal. I feel this thing is quite overhyped tbh. I mean it's incredibly strong w/ good coverage but it requires too much team support. You essentialy need TR or After You support if you want any chance of dealing with sun or fire types. Rotom-H, Arcanine, and Inceniroar feel like hard counters Rock Slide and HH don't do nearly enough to dispatch them. Then again with proper play and support, this thing can easily nuke anything as well as making fairy & rock types obsolete for the most part. I'm undecided but I'm leaning towards No Ban although this can easily change as with good support this thing is a huge menace.
-Sable and Mew are both still very good. Sable effectively means clicking Protect is unsafe and assuming you can dispatch the other side's mon it can still 1v1 a lot of things. In addition to setting up rain & sun, this thing is still solid even in 2v2. I'd put it in Tier 3. Mew is not only excellent support w/ Fake Out, Helping Hand, and After You, but it is actually quite scary offensively. It has an insanely good movepool and 100 is not bad. I've been using this squad to good effect. Honestly, I think it'd make a solid sample team.
-Sand has suffered from Melmetal existing as sun is everywhere trying to snipe Melmetal w/ weather ball. Rain exists but I'm not a huge fan of having to use Pelipper. Sun is the best rn imo, Vena is incredibly strong and Torkoal can take out slow stuff w/ enough speed.
-Finally, I thought I'd go through each mon that suffers or benefits from Melmetal's inclusion.
Tier 1
Arcanine +
Excadrill -
Tyranitar -
Melmetal N
Tier 1.5
Dragapult N
Incineroar +
Indeedee-F N
Torkoal +
Whimsicott ultra -
Tier 2
Darmanitan-Galar N (CB is scary for Melmetal)
Ferrothorn - (Fire types are everywhere)
Hatterene -
Pelipper - (Sun and tpunch)
Togekiss -
Scrafty +
Venusaur +
Tier 3
Braviary -
Charizard +
Corviknight N
Hydreigon N
Gastrodon +
Gyarados N (intimidate is nice but tpunch is scary)
Hitmontop +
Jellicent +
Kommo-o N
Mew + (offensive is a good lure and it is great support)
Milotic +
Necrozma N
Oranguru +
Rhyperior -
Rotom-W +
Rotom-H +
Sylveon -
Zeraora N
Not going over tier 3 or 4 most are pretty niche anyways.
It could be seen as unhealthy that certain mons have better or worse viability because of Melmetal and I'd tend to agree, however I still think there is a fair amount of counterplay.

Well there we are. I'm really enjoying 2v2 and I'd be fine with Melmetal staying or going, both seem equally interesting metas.
 

Arai

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
The issue with melmetal is that as long as it has that team support it is very hard to actually deal with. A lot of pokemon aren’t the monsters that they are on their own but when they get paired with x support they suddenly dominate the meta and that is a problem.
 
Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 48 HP / 208 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Heat Crash
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake

Togekiss @ Choice Specs
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Flamethrower

Vikavolt @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Flash Cannon

Blastoise @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Follow Me
- Scald
- Attract
- Fake Out

This is good team. make it sample
 

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