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2v2 Ladder
- Thread starter rory
- Start date
Jukain
Guest
I'm not. I wasn't trying to preach on 2v2, I simply took Nintendo's banlist and some of the rules (which would mean no soul dew). From my experience Nintendo's metagame is not unreasonable. It does not mean there are no flaws. The Lati Twins are a nice check to garchomp and by all means are not hard to KO. For me the reasoning was that if Latios has worse defenses than Latias, who is legal, Latios wouldn't be a (big)problem. Jirachi and Celebi slipped my mind, although those two are arguable.
I also support the initial no clause period. IMO, I think that Nintendo's rules should be used as a base after that period and worked upon until an acceptable Smogon metagame can be made. I did not mean for my first post to be the end-all solution. It is far from that my friend.
Wait, so would Species Clause also be off?
That's not an argument, it's a fact, and an obvious one at that. Like the OP says, it will probably become Uber, but it will be tested to make sure it truly belongs there. If you want to actually make an argument, then make one. I'm sure people would hear you out. And you mean addition, as in kindergarten math.
sorry to revive the thread, but will double team recieve its own server or will it be on smogon main server.
on a side note deoxys was ban from stage 3 mainly because of it dual screen set however dual screen is harder to pull off in doubles (too bore to explain why just look up reflect on smogon) speed does not make a pokemon broken alone (electrobe&ninjask&scarfpokemon).
on a side note deoxys was ban from stage 3 mainly because of it dual screen set however dual screen is harder to pull off in doubles (too bore to explain why just look up reflect on smogon) speed does not make a pokemon broken alone (electrobe&ninjask&scarfpokemon).
Isn't this list of proposed ubers just Rory's personal opinion on things?
That's exactly why the test is happening lol.
Also if Species Clause is off I wonder if people will abuse that...
Also if Species Clause is off I wonder if people will abuse that...
Yeah, it kinda looks too official doesn't it.
I think the first and foremost thing people can agree on is that Groudon, Kyogre and Arceus would too powerful. Most likely all the base 680's would also quickly prove too much if tested.
Other 'traditional' ubers, excluding soul dew Lati@s, Darkrai, Deoxys and Deoxys-A don't seem threatening enough to outright ban without more experience.
And than we get the exact same ban list Rory proposed, lol.
So although that list isn't official, it's a pretty 'safe' list.
I'm afraid if the two week test is really 'everything goes' that the only thing we'll learn is what the best all Arceus team would consist of. I could be totally wrong about that though.
I'm pretty sure an Arceus team would fail to Dark Void, lol.
Double extreme speeding darkrai should do the job.
Well after reading through about three pages of this. i got kinda board and wanted to make a point of my own about the auto-loss system. Let's say the opponent threw out smeargle. now then, in my personal opinion, i'm going to throw out two pokemon that are able to be DVed. Thus my opponent has broken sleep clause, I win.
My vote is with either expanding the limit of Sleepable pokemon to two, or banning DV alltogether. Discarding sleep clause alltogether is a terrible option. It would create one of those negative play environment that the tierings are set up to prevent.
My vote is with either expanding the limit of Sleepable pokemon to two, or banning DV alltogether. Discarding sleep clause alltogether is a terrible option. It would create one of those negative play environment that the tierings are set up to prevent.
Yeah, I'm seriously against letting a ban rule create strategies and/or risk-reward situations. It seems really silly to me that you might be able to break the rule "accidentally", or be forced to break it by your opponent, and lose because of it. I don't really care about the viability of such tactics; it just doesn't sit well with me.
If we're really for making a real-life-enforceable Sleep Clause (which I personally am all for), I think we should abandon the idea of preventing ALL forms of two Pokémon being slept by the opponent.
If we're really for making a real-life-enforceable Sleep Clause (which I personally am all for), I think we should abandon the idea of preventing ALL forms of two Pokémon being slept by the opponent.
When SB2 comes out will there be multiple tiers just like singles? I think there should be a ladder for normal 6v6 doubles and one for VGC style.
There should be two VGC ladders, one with 2010 rules, and one with 2009 rules, slightly altered. It seems with the release of Heart Gold and Sold Silver, there is some sort of auto level 50 for local wifi, which means they should allow Tyranitar and non TRU Dragonite. Also, the formes should be allowed, since in HG/SS they are obtainable by everyone.
The 4 vs 4 double battle has no issues with dark void. Only smeargle is able to learn it, and it is not overpowered at all. Dark Void smeargle is easily counterable. A lum berry or chest berry user is all that is needed to stop a dark void smeargle from destroying teams.
On the discussion of a sleep cause, I think there should be none inforced. In the double battle metagame, smeargle will be the only user of Dark Void (assuming Darkrai is in Ubers). A dark void smeargle is easliy stopped by a priority move + chesto/lum berry. Smeargle has frail defences and isn't hard to kill by any means.
There should be two VGC ladders, one with 2010 rules, and one with 2009 rules, slightly altered. It seems with the release of Heart Gold and Sold Silver, there is some sort of auto level 50 for local wifi, which means they should allow Tyranitar and non TRU Dragonite. Also, the formes should be allowed, since in HG/SS they are obtainable by everyone.
The 4 vs 4 double battle has no issues with dark void. Only smeargle is able to learn it, and it is not overpowered at all. Dark Void smeargle is easily counterable. A lum berry or chest berry user is all that is needed to stop a dark void smeargle from destroying teams.
On the discussion of a sleep cause, I think there should be none inforced. In the double battle metagame, smeargle will be the only user of Dark Void (assuming Darkrai is in Ubers). A dark void smeargle is easliy stopped by a priority move + chesto/lum berry. Smeargle has frail defences and isn't hard to kill by any means.
Depending on when SB2 comes out and the rules are announced for North America, I agree about only having the single ladder. If SB2 comes out before there is official stating of what format VGC 2010 will be following, I think there should be the separate ones. I know Mike L. is pushing to keep ubers ban for North America VGC still.
I've read the whole thread and noticed most of the discussion was about sleep clause/Dark Void.
As an experienced Double battler, I suggest do one of two things:
1) Allow Dark Void, but only 1 pokemon can be asleep(auto-loss idea)
2) Ban Dark Void, but allow two pokemon to be asleep at a time
I am also very glad Manaphy isn't in the initial Uber list, because it shouldn't, its pretty easy to take down in doubles.
My only problem here is Wobbuffet because even when you attack it with both pokemon, it is still likely to survive(too much HP).
PS: I know this is my first post.
As an experienced Double battler, I suggest do one of two things:
1) Allow Dark Void, but only 1 pokemon can be asleep(auto-loss idea)
2) Ban Dark Void, but allow two pokemon to be asleep at a time
I am also very glad Manaphy isn't in the initial Uber list, because it shouldn't, its pretty easy to take down in doubles.
My only problem here is Wobbuffet because even when you attack it with both pokemon, it is still likely to survive(too much HP).
PS: I know this is my first post.
Probably not. At least not in the beginning phases. It will most likely start off as a free for all including Ubers then clearly broken stuff will get moved to Uber-like status. I really doubt we would ever see a UU/NU for 2v2 though. Little Cup is probably the only viable add-on to the 2v2 tiers.
Don't forget the fact that DougJustDoug will probably have to write a new program for calculating stats for the list. This could take anywhere from a week to a month plus depending on the time he has to spend on it. Unless:
1. He's working on sb2 with Colin and would already know where everything is (Last time I checked Colin and somebody else was working on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was him), so manipulating the program output to the new variables should be easy (couple days tops).
2. The internal variables for sb2 are in the same place with the same name, then there would be no modifications needed.
But yeah, don't expect lists to come up soon after sb2. And don't even start on the analysis of them.
1. He's working on sb2 with Colin and would already know where everything is (Last time I checked Colin and somebody else was working on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was him), so manipulating the program output to the new variables should be easy (couple days tops).
2. The internal variables for sb2 are in the same place with the same name, then there would be no modifications needed.
But yeah, don't expect lists to come up soon after sb2. And don't even start on the analysis of them.