That is a great point. I have only tested Stormping Tantrum and Thunder Punch but only in theory. The reason that I prioritize using ZH is because it's STAB and I want as much damage as possible. Thank you for this, i will consider changing ZH for Stomping Tantrum.
-
Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
- Start date
Where did you get a perfect IV, 0 Atk, Timid, Hidden Ability Landorus?
From Dream Radar. It was Hyper Trained. The 0 IV is automatic in Showdown lol
How many guys with Ice attacks do you need? Lol. We could keep the Zen Headbutt and replace the Ice Punch instead.
Brick Break is another option, or the Electric Terrain boosted Thunder Punch could be really fun too.
Burning Abyss saving replays for the sake of saving them is unnecessary (and you'll find that people generally aren't interested in watching players steamroll teams that posed absolutely no threat to the frontline, regardless.)
What we do like to see are the ways you overcome the many threats you've listed, in situationally bad pairings you may not even have encountered yet. They'll show the ways you've improved over time and your ability to manage any kind of scenario the game throws at you. As with all of us, you'll eventually meet your match and perhaps bite off more than you can chew ;)
What we do like to see are the ways you overcome the many threats you've listed, in situationally bad pairings you may not even have encountered yet. They'll show the ways you've improved over time and your ability to manage any kind of scenario the game throws at you. As with all of us, you'll eventually meet your match and perhaps bite off more than you can chew ;)
Hmm, that's true. Now that I think about it, keeping Zen Headbutt and changing Ice Punch for Stomping Tantrum is better considering Pheromosa has Ice Beam in the back too. Thank you for your suggestion.
Okay, thank you for your suggestion. The thing is, the real threat that can cost me the game is Mega Alakazam. The rest I can handle by sacking one pokemon, so the game is not really that thriliing. But I will definitely save more interesting battles!
Hey all, got another team report comin at ya. No PheroLele this time even!
I completed this run a couple weeks ago, but finally am getting around to doing a little write up. Reporting a streak of 119 in Ultra Sun Super Doubles.
Team Building
For this team, I had two goals. The first was to build a slightly unconventional rain team that doesn't rely on many of the usual suspects like Tapu Koko, Alola-Raichu, Mega-Swampert, Landorus-T, Celesteela, or Kartana to name a few. Secondly, I really wanted to get a very seldom seen favorite of mine onto the leaderboard, Kabutops. I initially used Kabutops in the lead slot with Politoed, but I really ended up missing out on Pelipper's immediate threat to Grass and Fighting types, both of which brutalize Kabutops. After a few runs getting used to the lead combo, I ended up wanting something with Fake Out to protect Pelipper from a bit of danger, and the classic partner Ludicolo was a perfect fit. Rounding out the team, I tested out a few options such as Xurkitree (too slow), Mega-Manectric (decent, was a great answer to Electric attacks aimed at Pelipper with Lightning Rod, and Intimidate support, but I was never comfortable with his damage output outside of Thunder), Mega-Scizor (got frustrated with choosing the right move set and spread and gave up), and Eviolite Scyther (which actually felt surprisingly good, will have to explore this one further). Finally I settled on a great Mega not usually seen on rain teams, Mega-Salamence. So there we had my final team to make a serious run. A rain team with no Electric type or Ground type. I am not a smart man. But still I persisted on.
The Team
One of two possible linchpins in a rain team. Pelipper provides much more damage than you would expect coming of a 95 Sp. Atk Base Stat with a Modest nature. I used a simple special attacker spread along with a Focus Sash for pseudo-bulk.
Hurricane is the reason to choose Pelipper over Politoed. It hits hard off a 110 power STAB and will be your first response to Grass types, a huge danger to this team. Many common Grass types are taken down in one hit, such as Tangrowth, Lilligant, and Lurantis 3 and 4. I don't believe there is a Grass type that survives two. Even the massive Mega-Venusaur takes 77%-90.9%. But wait, there's more! In rain, it ignores Accuracy, giving you a guaranteed hit against the Evasion and Bright Powder nightmares that lurk in the tree. And if that wasn't enough, you have a 30% chance to cause confusion, a great way to fish for an escape from a sticky situation, or buy a free turn to gain momentum.
Scald is chosen over Hydro Pump mainly because of the drop in accuracy is too much to risk. With STAB and the bonus to Water attacks in rain, it still manages to get the job done. The burn chance is also very, very useful, as sometimes that is all it takes to survive an extra hit and finish off the match. I really like the idea of Brine as shown on Eisenherz's rain team, but I came across his report near battle 100 and I wasn't willing to rock the boat at that point. In addition, I don't think I had enough damage in my other lead slot to warrant using Brine, as his Specs Koko will deal a much bigger blow to facilitate the increase to 130 power at targets with <50% health.
I cannot stress enough how important I believe Rain Dance is for this slot. I had toyed with Tailwind and Ice Beam as the third move, but decided that reliable resetting of the weather was much more valuable. Without the Volt Switch - Switch strategy that Eisenherz employs (seriously go read it if you are interested in running a rain team), I would need two turns to reset weather. This team is just too fragile to handle that. Focus Sash and Ludicolo's Fake Out all but guarantees rain to go up again for turn two. And a rain team without rain is a dead team.
Lastly is Protect. A doubles staple, but Pelipper gets more use out of it than almost anyone. It can be used to bait Electric attacks that the AI loves to fire at you due to the 4x weakness. Just be careful of Gigavolt Havoc, as it will often still take you to your Sash through Protect. A common mistake I used to make was to think of Pelipper as almost expendable. But she is the glue that holds the team together, and is probably the most valuable member.
I love this little goober. Ludicolo is one of the best rain abusers simply for the fact that he can handle water types, something that no other Swift Swim user can claim. He also brings Fake Out pressure, a value that really can't be overstated, which is another reason he is unique among Swift Swim users. Lastly, he doesn't carry a weakness to opposing Grass and Electric types, which are understandably problematic for rain teams.
With full speed EVs is rain boosted speed clocks in at 244, out speeding everything in the tree except Scarf- Aerodactyl, Manectric, Garchomp, and Entei. With a Timid set, you can get the jump on everything except Aerodactly, but the drop in damage output compared to a Modest set severly outweighs outspeeding those three sets (even though they all are relatively threatening).
The rest of the EVs are put into Sp. Atk to be as threatening as possible, and the bonus point is put into HP.
I initially was using a Waterium-Z set with Hydro Pump, but I made a really stupid mistake by switching Hydro Pump for Scald when testing different sets. I forgot that only Lombre can be re-taught Hydro Pump, because reasons. Hydro Vortex has a base power of 160 with Scald compared to 185 with Hydro Pump, which was too much power to sacrifice. I ended up missing way too many OHKOs for comfort, so I switched to an Assault Vest to shore up my suspect Sp. Def, which is lacking throughout the team. I was pretty pleased with the level of bulk it gave me Fairly often I would be surprised to take a strong hit and live to tell the tale. If I were to run this team again though, I would use the Z-set. But because he was a shiny, I didn't feel like getting another Ludicolo. Ah well.
I mentioned Scald in the Pelipper section, so I won't here. Unlike Pelipper, I think the risk/reward for using Hydro Pump outweighs the utility and consistency of Scald, and would recommend that if you want to use Ludicolo.
You have three choices for Grass move; Grass Knot, Giga Drain, and Energy Ball. Grass Knot has the highest potential damage output, especially considering all the fat Rock or Ground types, but the lower damage to lighter targets was too much of an issue for me. For example, Rotom-Wash takes only about 20% damage. Giga Drain would be a very solid choice if you invested in a more bulky or utility Ludicolo (something like Scald, Giga Drain, Fake Out, Knock Off with a defensive nature and investment), but I wanted to pump out the damage. Energy Ball ends up doing the most consistent damage, and also provides the small bonus of a 10% chance at a Sp. Def drop.
Ice Beam and Ice coverage in general is so useful in the tree. Particularly with Dragon types that resist both Grass and Water. The Garchomp killer is to go to move for anything that resists your STABs. 10% freeze chance can also swing a battle in your direction if you happen to get lucky.
Fake Out is crazy useful for this team. One example of its usefulness is when dealing with Electric types. A common play is to Fake Out the Electric type and Scald with Pelipper, then clean up next turn with Ludicolo. Any breathing room is appreciated, and Fake Out relieves a lot of pressure.
This is a Salamence I've used before, so I'm copy pasting most of this and explaining some changes.
The first thing of note about Salamence is his ability Initmidate. Just 1 attack drop can make all the difference in a battle, and because he sits in the back, it doesn't activate any competitive/defiant abilities from Milotic, Bisharp, Tornadus, or Thundurus. Salamence is used here to deal with Grass types, which Ludicolo and Kabutops have trouble with, and Fighting types, which threaten Kabutops.
The real reason for using Salamence here is of course his mega evolution. An additional 50 defense makes him a solid response to physical attacks, and with 252 EVs his speed is bumped up to a respectable 189 with a Naive nature. Naive is used to avoid dropping either attacking stat while maximizing speed, but I am actually wondering if a Hasty nature might be preferred to avoid lowering his mediocre special defense even further. Unfortunately there are many threats sitting just above Mega-Salamence in terms of speed, such as Mega-Aerodactyl, Weavile, Ribombee, Greninja, and Noivern, and he ties with important mons like non-mega Alakazam, Kanto Dugtrio, and opposing Mega-Salamence. Ideally, the leads will take care of these, but if they slip to the back two, it could be an issue.
One of the biggest draws to Mega-Salamence is Aerialte-boosted Hyper Voice. Although Aerialte did receive a nerf in Gen 7, a 1.2X bonus in addition to the new found flying STAB moves still hits very hard. The spread Hyper Voice dents the enemy team, with Flying being a less often resisted attacking type. I chose Double-Edge to be able to hit a single target as hard as possible with physical damage. I finally found the reason for the 44 Atk EVs in the XY Battle Spot Doubles guide after the streak was finished, but it is largely irrelevant for this team. It OHKOs Mega-Gardevior with 252 HP/4 Def 62.5% of the time, so I've got that going for me. The remaining EVs are dumped into special attack.
I chose Earthquake over Flamethrower since I do negligible damage in the rain with non-STAB Fire attacks. Earthquake manages to hit Steel types, and heavy Flying attacks usually do enough against Scizor and Ferrothorn to avoid issue. The biggest beneift here is against Eletric types, seeing as the rest of the team struggles against them, and Flying type attacks are also resisted. Protect is Protect.
And finally, we come to the most interesting member of the team. No other mon better exemplifies hyper-offensive rain than Kabutops. He sports a workable base Def of 105, but with 60 HP and 70 Sp. Def, he won't stand up to many hits. His 115 Atk is noth ing to scoff at, and his base 80 speed in rain outpaces common Swift Swim users like Ludiclolo and Mega-Swampert. The reason to use Kabutops over other rain sweepers (other than how incredibly cool he is) is his Rock typing. The tree has a wide varitey of annoying Flying and Ice types, which are quickly dismantled by our reisedent horseshoe crab.
I went with an Adamant nature as the extra speed from Jolly would just be overkill at this point, and the extra oomph really helps. Swift Swim is required for a rain team. For Evs, I went with max Atk and 212 Spe to bring my speed stat to 127. That magical number when doubled is 254, which outspeeds the menacing Scarf-Chomp by a point. I took a freebie point in both defenses, and put the rest into HP for a little bit of bulk.
Liquidation is the Water type move of choice. Its 85 power and 20% chance of lowering defense is more useful to this team than the 80 power and 20% flinch chance of Waterfall. That extra 5 power often makes more of a difference that you would expect. If you take the multipliers into account (1.5x STAB and 1.5x rain boost), their base powers are 191.25 and 180, respectively. That can be the difference between OHKOing a threat and getting blown up by a return attack. The flinch chance is missed, but the 20% defense drop is useful for brute forcing yourself through resisting targets.
In some of my early iterations of the team, I was using Kabutops in the lead spot with a Focus Sash, Swords Dance, and Rock Slide in this slot. I really was a fan of it and would have continued to test with it had it not been for the previously mentioned Hydro Pump-Scald snafu with Ludicolo. Once I lost my Z-move on Ludicolo, I decided to move my Z-crystal to Kabutops. Losing the Focus Sash forced me to give up Swords Dance as I did not have enough durability to safely set up. I swapped him to the back to keep him safe until needed. Despite how much I loved the spread and flinch utility of Rock Slide, the damage output was lacking, especially with the Z-move. Using Stone Edge as my Rock move of choice boosted the power of Continental Crush from a palty 140 to a massive 180. This improved nuke was great for taking down bulky Flying types like Mandibuzz and Zapdos, and also helped deal with evasion boosters like Cresselia and...Zapdos. Stone Edge on its own is a mixed bag. 100 power is great, 80% accuracy not so much. The boosted crit chance portion actually saved me a couple of times. Once it netted me a huge KO on something I wasn't expecting, and once it managed to break through an opponent with boosted defense.
This slot used to have Swords Dance. I really missed it over the run. Kabutops at +2 tears through almost everything. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough opportunities for it to set up. I really was not in love with any move here once I gave up the Focus Sash. Aqua Jet is okay for priority, but you outspeed almost everything, and if you are in Trick Room you have bigger problems. Night Slash was okay for dealing with mons like Gourgeist and Trevenant, but they should be taken care of by Pelipper anyway. X-Scissor is okay, but faced the same issues as Night Slash. Rarely will it do more damage to Psychic or Dark types than Liquidation or Stone Edge would, and Grass types are better dealt with by Pelipper. Knock Off utility is great, but Kabutops should be dealing damage. That left me with Superpower and Low Kick. I chose Low Kick to hit Bisharp and Tyranitar out of rain, as the stat drops from Superpower were too much.
Protect is Protect.
I'll freely admit Kabutops is not a phemomenal pokemon, and even that he is outclassed by other rain sweepers (namely Mega-Swampert). But I'm very happy I managed to make one of my favorites work and get him onto the leaderboard.
Battle Videos
Not going to go too deep into analysis here, but I've got a bunch of battle videos showing the team in action.
HHSG-WWWW-WWWZ-6V3D - Against a fast, full electric team.
3CJG-WWWW-WWWZ-6V6X - Against Blue, resetting rain + spooky Alakazam.
AABW-WWWW-WWWZ-6V7L - Lost rain and Pelipper turn 1.
HXKW-WWWW-WWWZ-6VAA - Played terribly against full legendary team, miracle win.
6T3W-WWWW-WWWZ-6VGW - Against a stupid fast team, Ludicolo hard carry after some dicey situations.
RT6W-WWWW-WWWZ-6VY8 - Beefy Regis with Electric attacks. Yikes.
47EW-WWWW-WWWZ-6VKR - Against Colress, Pelipper Protect baits MVP.
AJTG-WWWW-WWWZ-6VRD - Featuring Hail, Mega Salamence missing the 62.5% chance Double-Edge OHKO on Mega-Gardevoir (damn you EVs), and nightmare Minimize Toxic Blissey. Bless no-miss Hurricane.
5ENG-WWWW-WWWZ-6VS9 - The loss. Played bad. Should've sent Kabutops to take out Togekiss right away.
Conclusion
Kabutops is on the leaderboard. I am happy. Thanks for reading everyone!
Future Teams
I'll hide this part so it won't clutter up the post, but take a peak and give me some input!
I completed this run a couple weeks ago, but finally am getting around to doing a little write up. Reporting a streak of 119 in Ultra Sun Super Doubles.
Team Building
For this team, I had two goals. The first was to build a slightly unconventional rain team that doesn't rely on many of the usual suspects like Tapu Koko, Alola-Raichu, Mega-Swampert, Landorus-T, Celesteela, or Kartana to name a few. Secondly, I really wanted to get a very seldom seen favorite of mine onto the leaderboard, Kabutops. I initially used Kabutops in the lead slot with Politoed, but I really ended up missing out on Pelipper's immediate threat to Grass and Fighting types, both of which brutalize Kabutops. After a few runs getting used to the lead combo, I ended up wanting something with Fake Out to protect Pelipper from a bit of danger, and the classic partner Ludicolo was a perfect fit. Rounding out the team, I tested out a few options such as Xurkitree (too slow), Mega-Manectric (decent, was a great answer to Electric attacks aimed at Pelipper with Lightning Rod, and Intimidate support, but I was never comfortable with his damage output outside of Thunder), Mega-Scizor (got frustrated with choosing the right move set and spread and gave up), and Eviolite Scyther (which actually felt surprisingly good, will have to explore this one further). Finally I settled on a great Mega not usually seen on rain teams, Mega-Salamence. So there we had my final team to make a serious run. A rain team with no Electric type or Ground type. I am not a smart man. But still I persisted on.
The Team
Pelipper (F)
@ Focus Sash
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 31/~2/31/31/31/31
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Rain Dance
- Protect
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 31/~2/31/31/31/31
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Rain Dance
- Protect
HP: 135
Atk: 50
Def: 120
Sp. Atk: 161
Sp. Def: 91
Speed: 117
Atk: 50
Def: 120
Sp. Atk: 161
Sp. Def: 91
Speed: 117
Hurricane is the reason to choose Pelipper over Politoed. It hits hard off a 110 power STAB and will be your first response to Grass types, a huge danger to this team. Many common Grass types are taken down in one hit, such as Tangrowth, Lilligant, and Lurantis 3 and 4. I don't believe there is a Grass type that survives two. Even the massive Mega-Venusaur takes 77%-90.9%. But wait, there's more! In rain, it ignores Accuracy, giving you a guaranteed hit against the Evasion and Bright Powder nightmares that lurk in the tree. And if that wasn't enough, you have a 30% chance to cause confusion, a great way to fish for an escape from a sticky situation, or buy a free turn to gain momentum.
Scald is chosen over Hydro Pump mainly because of the drop in accuracy is too much to risk. With STAB and the bonus to Water attacks in rain, it still manages to get the job done. The burn chance is also very, very useful, as sometimes that is all it takes to survive an extra hit and finish off the match. I really like the idea of Brine as shown on Eisenherz's rain team, but I came across his report near battle 100 and I wasn't willing to rock the boat at that point. In addition, I don't think I had enough damage in my other lead slot to warrant using Brine, as his Specs Koko will deal a much bigger blow to facilitate the increase to 130 power at targets with <50% health.
I cannot stress enough how important I believe Rain Dance is for this slot. I had toyed with Tailwind and Ice Beam as the third move, but decided that reliable resetting of the weather was much more valuable. Without the Volt Switch - Switch strategy that Eisenherz employs (seriously go read it if you are interested in running a rain team), I would need two turns to reset weather. This team is just too fragile to handle that. Focus Sash and Ludicolo's Fake Out all but guarantees rain to go up again for turn two. And a rain team without rain is a dead team.
Lastly is Protect. A doubles staple, but Pelipper gets more use out of it than almost anyone. It can be used to bait Electric attacks that the AI loves to fire at you due to the 4x weakness. Just be careful of Gigavolt Havoc, as it will often still take you to your Sash through Protect. A common mistake I used to make was to think of Pelipper as almost expendable. But she is the glue that holds the team together, and is probably the most valuable member.
Ludicolo (M)
@ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Hyper-Trained)
- Fake Out
- Scald
- Energy Ball
- Scald
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Hyper-Trained)
- Fake Out
- Scald
- Energy Ball
- Scald
HP: 156
Atk: 81
Def: 90
Sp. Atk: 156
Sp. Def: 120
Speed: 122
Atk: 81
Def: 90
Sp. Atk: 156
Sp. Def: 120
Speed: 122
With full speed EVs is rain boosted speed clocks in at 244, out speeding everything in the tree except Scarf- Aerodactyl, Manectric, Garchomp, and Entei. With a Timid set, you can get the jump on everything except Aerodactly, but the drop in damage output compared to a Modest set severly outweighs outspeeding those three sets (even though they all are relatively threatening).
The rest of the EVs are put into Sp. Atk to be as threatening as possible, and the bonus point is put into HP.
I initially was using a Waterium-Z set with Hydro Pump, but I made a really stupid mistake by switching Hydro Pump for Scald when testing different sets. I forgot that only Lombre can be re-taught Hydro Pump, because reasons. Hydro Vortex has a base power of 160 with Scald compared to 185 with Hydro Pump, which was too much power to sacrifice. I ended up missing way too many OHKOs for comfort, so I switched to an Assault Vest to shore up my suspect Sp. Def, which is lacking throughout the team. I was pretty pleased with the level of bulk it gave me Fairly often I would be surprised to take a strong hit and live to tell the tale. If I were to run this team again though, I would use the Z-set. But because he was a shiny, I didn't feel like getting another Ludicolo. Ah well.
I mentioned Scald in the Pelipper section, so I won't here. Unlike Pelipper, I think the risk/reward for using Hydro Pump outweighs the utility and consistency of Scald, and would recommend that if you want to use Ludicolo.
You have three choices for Grass move; Grass Knot, Giga Drain, and Energy Ball. Grass Knot has the highest potential damage output, especially considering all the fat Rock or Ground types, but the lower damage to lighter targets was too much of an issue for me. For example, Rotom-Wash takes only about 20% damage. Giga Drain would be a very solid choice if you invested in a more bulky or utility Ludicolo (something like Scald, Giga Drain, Fake Out, Knock Off with a defensive nature and investment), but I wanted to pump out the damage. Energy Ball ends up doing the most consistent damage, and also provides the small bonus of a 10% chance at a Sp. Def drop.
Ice Beam and Ice coverage in general is so useful in the tree. Particularly with Dragon types that resist both Grass and Water. The Garchomp killer is to go to move for anything that resists your STABs. 10% freeze chance can also swing a battle in your direction if you happen to get lucky.
Fake Out is crazy useful for this team. One example of its usefulness is when dealing with Electric types. A common play is to Fake Out the Electric type and Scald with Pelipper, then clean up next turn with Ludicolo. Any breathing room is appreciated, and Fake Out relieves a lot of pressure.
Salamence (M)
@ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate ==> Aerialate
Level: 50
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 44 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Protect
Ability: Intimidate ==> Aerialate
Level: 50
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 44 Atk / 212 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Protect
HP: 170
Attack: 161
Defense: 100
Sp. Atk: 157
Sp. Def: 90
Speed: 167
Attack: 161
Defense: 100
Sp. Atk: 157
Sp. Def: 90
Speed: 167
HP: 170
Attack: 171
Defense: 150
Sp. Atk: 167
Sp. Def: 99
Speed: 189
Attack: 171
Defense: 150
Sp. Atk: 167
Sp. Def: 99
Speed: 189
This is a Salamence I've used before, so I'm copy pasting most of this and explaining some changes.
The first thing of note about Salamence is his ability Initmidate. Just 1 attack drop can make all the difference in a battle, and because he sits in the back, it doesn't activate any competitive/defiant abilities from Milotic, Bisharp, Tornadus, or Thundurus. Salamence is used here to deal with Grass types, which Ludicolo and Kabutops have trouble with, and Fighting types, which threaten Kabutops.
The real reason for using Salamence here is of course his mega evolution. An additional 50 defense makes him a solid response to physical attacks, and with 252 EVs his speed is bumped up to a respectable 189 with a Naive nature. Naive is used to avoid dropping either attacking stat while maximizing speed, but I am actually wondering if a Hasty nature might be preferred to avoid lowering his mediocre special defense even further. Unfortunately there are many threats sitting just above Mega-Salamence in terms of speed, such as Mega-Aerodactyl, Weavile, Ribombee, Greninja, and Noivern, and he ties with important mons like non-mega Alakazam, Kanto Dugtrio, and opposing Mega-Salamence. Ideally, the leads will take care of these, but if they slip to the back two, it could be an issue.
One of the biggest draws to Mega-Salamence is Aerialte-boosted Hyper Voice. Although Aerialte did receive a nerf in Gen 7, a 1.2X bonus in addition to the new found flying STAB moves still hits very hard. The spread Hyper Voice dents the enemy team, with Flying being a less often resisted attacking type. I chose Double-Edge to be able to hit a single target as hard as possible with physical damage. I finally found the reason for the 44 Atk EVs in the XY Battle Spot Doubles guide after the streak was finished, but it is largely irrelevant for this team. It OHKOs Mega-Gardevior with 252 HP/4 Def 62.5% of the time, so I've got that going for me. The remaining EVs are dumped into special attack.
I chose Earthquake over Flamethrower since I do negligible damage in the rain with non-STAB Fire attacks. Earthquake manages to hit Steel types, and heavy Flying attacks usually do enough against Scizor and Ferrothorn to avoid issue. The biggest beneift here is against Eletric types, seeing as the rest of the team struggles against them, and Flying type attacks are also resisted. Protect is Protect.
Kabutops (M)
@ Rockium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Low Kick
- Protect
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Low Kick
- Protect
HP: 140
Atk: 183
Def: 126
Sp. Atk: 76
Sp. Def: 91
Speed: 127
Atk: 183
Def: 126
Sp. Atk: 76
Sp. Def: 91
Speed: 127
I went with an Adamant nature as the extra speed from Jolly would just be overkill at this point, and the extra oomph really helps. Swift Swim is required for a rain team. For Evs, I went with max Atk and 212 Spe to bring my speed stat to 127. That magical number when doubled is 254, which outspeeds the menacing Scarf-Chomp by a point. I took a freebie point in both defenses, and put the rest into HP for a little bit of bulk.
Liquidation is the Water type move of choice. Its 85 power and 20% chance of lowering defense is more useful to this team than the 80 power and 20% flinch chance of Waterfall. That extra 5 power often makes more of a difference that you would expect. If you take the multipliers into account (1.5x STAB and 1.5x rain boost), their base powers are 191.25 and 180, respectively. That can be the difference between OHKOing a threat and getting blown up by a return attack. The flinch chance is missed, but the 20% defense drop is useful for brute forcing yourself through resisting targets.
In some of my early iterations of the team, I was using Kabutops in the lead spot with a Focus Sash, Swords Dance, and Rock Slide in this slot. I really was a fan of it and would have continued to test with it had it not been for the previously mentioned Hydro Pump-Scald snafu with Ludicolo. Once I lost my Z-move on Ludicolo, I decided to move my Z-crystal to Kabutops. Losing the Focus Sash forced me to give up Swords Dance as I did not have enough durability to safely set up. I swapped him to the back to keep him safe until needed. Despite how much I loved the spread and flinch utility of Rock Slide, the damage output was lacking, especially with the Z-move. Using Stone Edge as my Rock move of choice boosted the power of Continental Crush from a palty 140 to a massive 180. This improved nuke was great for taking down bulky Flying types like Mandibuzz and Zapdos, and also helped deal with evasion boosters like Cresselia and...Zapdos. Stone Edge on its own is a mixed bag. 100 power is great, 80% accuracy not so much. The boosted crit chance portion actually saved me a couple of times. Once it netted me a huge KO on something I wasn't expecting, and once it managed to break through an opponent with boosted defense.
This slot used to have Swords Dance. I really missed it over the run. Kabutops at +2 tears through almost everything. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough opportunities for it to set up. I really was not in love with any move here once I gave up the Focus Sash. Aqua Jet is okay for priority, but you outspeed almost everything, and if you are in Trick Room you have bigger problems. Night Slash was okay for dealing with mons like Gourgeist and Trevenant, but they should be taken care of by Pelipper anyway. X-Scissor is okay, but faced the same issues as Night Slash. Rarely will it do more damage to Psychic or Dark types than Liquidation or Stone Edge would, and Grass types are better dealt with by Pelipper. Knock Off utility is great, but Kabutops should be dealing damage. That left me with Superpower and Low Kick. I chose Low Kick to hit Bisharp and Tyranitar out of rain, as the stat drops from Superpower were too much.
Protect is Protect.
I'll freely admit Kabutops is not a phemomenal pokemon, and even that he is outclassed by other rain sweepers (namely Mega-Swampert). But I'm very happy I managed to make one of my favorites work and get him onto the leaderboard.
Not going to go too deep into analysis here, but I've got a bunch of battle videos showing the team in action.
HHSG-WWWW-WWWZ-6V3D - Against a fast, full electric team.
3CJG-WWWW-WWWZ-6V6X - Against Blue, resetting rain + spooky Alakazam.
AABW-WWWW-WWWZ-6V7L - Lost rain and Pelipper turn 1.
HXKW-WWWW-WWWZ-6VAA - Played terribly against full legendary team, miracle win.
6T3W-WWWW-WWWZ-6VGW - Against a stupid fast team, Ludicolo hard carry after some dicey situations.
RT6W-WWWW-WWWZ-6VY8 - Beefy Regis with Electric attacks. Yikes.
47EW-WWWW-WWWZ-6VKR - Against Colress, Pelipper Protect baits MVP.
AJTG-WWWW-WWWZ-6VRD - Featuring Hail, Mega Salamence missing the 62.5% chance Double-Edge OHKO on Mega-Gardevoir (damn you EVs), and nightmare Minimize Toxic Blissey. Bless no-miss Hurricane.
5ENG-WWWW-WWWZ-6VS9 - The loss. Played bad. Should've sent Kabutops to take out Togekiss right away.
Conclusion
Kabutops is on the leaderboard. I am happy. Thanks for reading everyone!
Future Teams
I'll hide this part so it won't clutter up the post, but take a peak and give me some input!
So I've really run out of direction and steam for the battle tree. I have a ton of half baked ideas and streaks that end around 70 or 80. Where should I go next? I'm not a huge fan of singles, but does anyone recommend Multis? Human or AI partnered?
Here are some of the teams I have been running casually or have semi-theory crafted, think any of these are worth pursuing?
- A Sand team with M-Tyranitar, Tapu Lele, Excadrill, and Zapdos. I noticed there wasn't really any sand team on the leaderboard (although I believe one was just posted this last week) so I gave this a shot. Consistently gets 60+ then collapses. I like my sets and the team, don't know if this is bad play or bad luck.
- A TR team similar team to Josh C.'s recent 1800+ streak team, featuring a setter and a fire/water/grass core. I've tried using a mix of Cresselia/Oranguru/Gardevoir, Incineroar/Quiet Heatran, min speed Tapu Bulu, and Gastrodon. I really loved this team initially and thought it would go very far. Unfortunately I just could never get it to work. Plus with a fairly similar team with a monster streak I feel a bit demotivated to try it lol.
- This team is still theoretical and in the stalled process of breeding. I managed to breed a perfect shiny Gengar and a perfect shiny Whimsicott, but with almost no egg moves. Oops. In addition to my shiny Incineroar, I almost have a full Kommo team that is popular in VGC (albeit without some important egg moves). Can I make this team work without Perish Song or Disable, or Encore or Fake Tears?
- In a similar vein, is it possible to build a functioning Perish Trap team? I've never tried this archetype at all so I'm not sure how viable it would be in the battle tree. I've got pieces of a team coming together with some combination of M-Gengar (with egg moves!), Gothitelle, Scrafty, A-Persian,
Amoonguss, Politoed, whoever. Any thoughts?
- I made a sun team with Charizard-Y and Venusar leads, but didn't find it that fun or strong. I also messed with Pledge sets here but it didn't feel very good. My back two here were Scarf Eruption Typhlosion and Garchomp. Can this team be improved upon enough to be worth running?
- The last team I'll mention is one I found the coolest. It's fairly gimmicky, but feels like it might be able to work. It starts with Tapu Lele and Unburden Accelgor with Psychic Seed (I did it first VGC). My love of Lele remains strong as ever, and Accelgor is a good complement with Bug Buzz to hit Psychic and Dark types, Acid Spray to shred Sp. Def, and Final Gambit for a 187 HP nuke. Then I added Choice Scarf Staraptor for Intimidate and another, even stronger Final Gambit. Who needs matchups and speed control when you go fast and nuke everything. Lastly I went with Pheromosa just because I am comfortable with PheroLele. Any thoughts on this team?
Thanks for taking a look at this section of the post. Curious to hear what you think.
Here are some of the teams I have been running casually or have semi-theory crafted, think any of these are worth pursuing?
- A Sand team with M-Tyranitar, Tapu Lele, Excadrill, and Zapdos. I noticed there wasn't really any sand team on the leaderboard (although I believe one was just posted this last week) so I gave this a shot. Consistently gets 60+ then collapses. I like my sets and the team, don't know if this is bad play or bad luck.
- A TR team similar team to Josh C.'s recent 1800+ streak team, featuring a setter and a fire/water/grass core. I've tried using a mix of Cresselia/Oranguru/Gardevoir, Incineroar/Quiet Heatran, min speed Tapu Bulu, and Gastrodon. I really loved this team initially and thought it would go very far. Unfortunately I just could never get it to work. Plus with a fairly similar team with a monster streak I feel a bit demotivated to try it lol.
- This team is still theoretical and in the stalled process of breeding. I managed to breed a perfect shiny Gengar and a perfect shiny Whimsicott, but with almost no egg moves. Oops. In addition to my shiny Incineroar, I almost have a full Kommo team that is popular in VGC (albeit without some important egg moves). Can I make this team work without Perish Song or Disable, or Encore or Fake Tears?
- In a similar vein, is it possible to build a functioning Perish Trap team? I've never tried this archetype at all so I'm not sure how viable it would be in the battle tree. I've got pieces of a team coming together with some combination of M-Gengar (with egg moves!), Gothitelle, Scrafty, A-Persian,
Amoonguss, Politoed, whoever. Any thoughts?
- I made a sun team with Charizard-Y and Venusar leads, but didn't find it that fun or strong. I also messed with Pledge sets here but it didn't feel very good. My back two here were Scarf Eruption Typhlosion and Garchomp. Can this team be improved upon enough to be worth running?
- The last team I'll mention is one I found the coolest. It's fairly gimmicky, but feels like it might be able to work. It starts with Tapu Lele and Unburden Accelgor with Psychic Seed (I did it first VGC). My love of Lele remains strong as ever, and Accelgor is a good complement with Bug Buzz to hit Psychic and Dark types, Acid Spray to shred Sp. Def, and Final Gambit for a 187 HP nuke. Then I added Choice Scarf Staraptor for Intimidate and another, even stronger Final Gambit. Who needs matchups and speed control when you go fast and nuke everything. Lastly I went with Pheromosa just because I am comfortable with PheroLele. Any thoughts on this team?
Thanks for taking a look at this section of the post. Curious to hear what you think.
Congrats on the rain streak you got with Kabutops there! Really neat writeup, though just having Stone Edge scares me to be honest. However, what really interested me were the other team ideas you've had, especially that second one involving Mega Gengar and Kommo-o. I guess the core you built up is really common in VGC or something, cause I came up with it as well a little while back, just with Charjabug in place of Whimsicott. I will have to say, speed control and sort of the safety of Kommo-o became my main priority for most battles that I had, bar a few. However, Fairies especially were a big problem for the team, with Gengar being so frail and some even carrying Psychic for coverage. And that ignores what they can do to Kommo-o.
I do think the team can survive without Gengar's Egg Moves, as those are a little more situational, something that Gengar generally won't survive to see time to use those moves. However, both Encore and Fake Tears sound really good, to help shut down certain Pokemon temporarily or do even more damage than say Helping Hand could do. The team should still function fine though, even without it, as I'd imagine Whimsicott has plenty of other things it could do to provide support, like Tailwind, Taunt, Helping Hand, Safeguard, and all sorts of other tools.
I don't know how well Perish Trap could work, as the two Pokemon that have both aren't really the bulkiest things ever. It would be interesting to see, but it would likely need a lot of defensive synergy and ways to fall back if something doesn't get set up. You'd also need something to take care of Soundproof Pokemon like Exploud and Electrode though.
I've heard about Accelgor/Lele a few times lately, and it seems like something really fun to try out. However, I feel like having two Final Gambit Pokemon is a little overkill and risky, especially the Choice Scarf Staraptor. For Staraptor, the whole EV distribution I find to be quite a problem. If you wanted a good Attack in case you can't use Final Gambit, you miss out on speed or a stronger Final Gambit. Same idea to the Speed and HP, just with the other two stats. Accelgor can get away with it due to Unburden and extra support it can give from Acid Spray, Encore, etc., but Staraptor doesn't really provide too much else after Intimidate, just damage. Pheromosa back is also odd, but to me it just seems far too frail to be in the back. What could take it's place, I don't really know though.
Everything else I don't have as much knowledge in, though they do seem promising, having seen other variants of the concept. Good luck with figuring them all out, if you get around to all of them!
Allow me to give you some feedback on your 2 ideas that I have quite some experience on since i'm the only person crazy enough to attempt to run weather-based teams that arent Rain:
I've done a lot of tests with M-Tyranitar and I came to one conclusion: it requires excessive amount of support to be functional as lead. Even with all the natural bulk it comes with, it's still sitting on a disastrous defensive typing as far as tree goes, a mediocre speed tier, and an inaccurate stab. You incurr in a terrifying 4MSS where you either go ddance + 2 attacks and Protect (leaving you to pick what will wall you) or just accept you'll take hits to the face and expecially status if you don't run a boosting move.
Sadly, the fact it sets Sand also screws the option of using a sash co-lead like Greninja or a squishy fake outer, as it will also break sash, though you can namely use a Unnerve Tyranitar to go around it, or can use Togedemaru if you don't mind *another* EQ weakness.
Also, it inevitably stacks weaknesses to common spread moves (EQ and Surf most notably) with any Sand Rush sweeper you want to use, on top of also sadly having problems with the stabs they provide (Excadrill for example either forces you in a inaccurate Drill Run, Earthquake which hits your team as well, or Stomping Tantrum which while equal power to EQ on one target is still quite lacking, on top of also lacking coverage as you only have access to poison jab and x-scissor if you don't want to risk inaccurate stone moves.
Spoilers: Shiftry does Venusaur's job better.
Chari Y lead has a big issue when it comes to Clorophyl, and it's that you don't get Chloro boost turn 1, which punishes Venusaur very hard.
It also has one less important but still significant drawback compared to non-mega setters: you need to Mega in order to get Drought, which in some cases forces you in a T1 protect play.
I've done a lot of tests with M-Tyranitar and I came to one conclusion: it requires excessive amount of support to be functional as lead. Even with all the natural bulk it comes with, it's still sitting on a disastrous defensive typing as far as tree goes, a mediocre speed tier, and an inaccurate stab. You incurr in a terrifying 4MSS where you either go ddance + 2 attacks and Protect (leaving you to pick what will wall you) or just accept you'll take hits to the face and expecially status if you don't run a boosting move.
Sadly, the fact it sets Sand also screws the option of using a sash co-lead like Greninja or a squishy fake outer, as it will also break sash, though you can namely use a Unnerve Tyranitar to go around it, or can use Togedemaru if you don't mind *another* EQ weakness.
Also, it inevitably stacks weaknesses to common spread moves (EQ and Surf most notably) with any Sand Rush sweeper you want to use, on top of also sadly having problems with the stabs they provide (Excadrill for example either forces you in a inaccurate Drill Run, Earthquake which hits your team as well, or Stomping Tantrum which while equal power to EQ on one target is still quite lacking, on top of also lacking coverage as you only have access to poison jab and x-scissor if you don't want to risk inaccurate stone moves.
You might find that I've got some experience with Scarf Eruption shenenigans and unsurprisingly it does feature almost the same mons.
Spoilers: Shiftry does Venusaur's job better.
Chari Y lead has a big issue when it comes to Clorophyl, and it's that you don't get Chloro boost turn 1, which punishes Venusaur very hard.
It also has one less important but still significant drawback compared to non-mega setters: you need to Mega in order to get Drought, which in some cases forces you in a T1 protect play.
Last edited:
For that sand team, you could try Gyarados over Zapdos to cover the water weakness a bit. Types are covered very nicely then. Z-EQ on Excadrill should be fine with one flying partner and Protect on Tyranitar.
M-Tyranitars Crunch (or Life Orb Crunch, if you want the Mega Stone on Gyara) kills many Trickroom setters (maybe with a little Dazzling Gleam from Lele), and Scarf Leles Psychic takes care of the big majority of Fighting Types (even uninvested Terrakion in Sand). If you play a Tyranitar that underspeeds Pelipper/Politoed you also dont have to deal with that deadly weather in turn one.
To me that seems like a viable combination.
M-Tyranitars Crunch (or Life Orb Crunch, if you want the Mega Stone on Gyara) kills many Trickroom setters (maybe with a little Dazzling Gleam from Lele), and Scarf Leles Psychic takes care of the big majority of Fighting Types (even uninvested Terrakion in Sand). If you play a Tyranitar that underspeeds Pelipper/Politoed you also dont have to deal with that deadly weather in turn one.
To me that seems like a viable combination.
Last edited:
Believe me Stone Edge was a nightmare to play around. Really does a number on the longevity of the team, as a tragic miss is bound to happen sooner rather than later. The good news was I rarely had to use it over Liquidation, and I had one get out of jail free card in the Z-move.
Thanks for all the input! Definitely a lot to think about. It'll probably take a ton of trial and error, but I'll get something really different on the board.
That's been my experience with M-Tar too. It just feels like it should work so much better than it does. I initially did try to give up protect assuming that bulk would be enough, but like you said that's not always the case. Especially when it comes to Fighting types and coverage he just crumbles. I will say though that Scarf Lele as the opposite lead feels very good in this case. She cleans up Fighting types with ease and oftentimes provides enough pressure to get Ttar to +1. I guess my biggest issue with the team really has been Excadrill. That damage output is just so lacking without Swords Dance but this team doesn't really have the luxury to set up. I've tried Sash, Z-move, and Life Orb sets and none of them have felt up to snuff. I could replace him but at that point it really isn't a sand team. Maybe abandoning the sand archetype all together is the answer, and just building a team off TtarLele could work? Or abandoning Ttar altogether and trying something like Hippowdon to set?
I took a lot of inspiration from your sun team with a few changes. First off my Charizard-Y was Modest and very bulky with a spread of 244 HP / 60 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD / 156 Spe. I would have to research again what exactly I calced those for, but I thought it felt pretty good. I also ran Heat Wave as my main STAB. I've been playing around with trying a Pledge combo here, but the biggest issue is that Charizard will move before Venusaur, losing the STAB on the massive 150 power nuke. The chip from the sea of fire effect feels pretty strong, picking up a lot of KOs that would otherwise sit around for another turn. Since I haven't spent much time using Zard-Y, I am not used to the interaction with Chlorophyll turn 1. This is infuriating lol. The Protect play just saps all momentum. Maybe the next gen that'll change and weather post-"turn 0" but pre-turn 1 will trigger speed boosting abilities. The other thing I implemented was HP Ground onto Tyhphlosion. Didn't run into anything like Heatran to test it out on, so data inconclusive. I actually did think about Shiftry for Fake Out pressure, but man those stats are just not great. I really think the biggest issue with the team is lack of diverse moves. Everything runs Fire or Grass and then ??? Sludge Bomb on Venusaur is pointless since you beat Grass and Fairy can't touch you. HP Ice is nice but it forces Venusaur to run Life Orb to get meaningful damage out of it.
The latest member I've thought of implementing is a bit gimmicky, but I'd lick your thoughts on it. I was thinking of moving Typhlosion to the lead, and using a supportive Leavanny along with a bulkier Garchomp. She still gets the speed and sun boosted Solar Beam, but her support move pool is great. Namely Helping Hand, but interestingly enough, Entrainment. The thought of a bulky Chlorophyll Garchomp makes me shiver. What do you think? Workable or too gimmicky?
I like that idea a lot actually, as Zapdos always felt better on paper than in practice. If I have a Gyarados with a good set on it laying around I'll have to test that out.
Thanks again for reading all!
I've done a few experimentations with Charizard, one of which did feature a bulky version which had Tailwind but it just exacerbated even further the turn 1 issue and atrocious vulnerability to Rock Slide. Let's be honest Charizard dies to anything that has Rock in it even with full defensive investment, it even dies to CARBINK's power gem. Sitting on 100 speed tier and being weak to rock and electric is not going to ever let it setup anything.
For reference, I've re-started using Eruption based comps recently
Smaug (Charizard) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 60 HP / 198 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
Brioche (Entei) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Extrasensory
Actual Dragon (Garchomp) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Protect
Shinfry (Shiftry) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Protect
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 60 HP / 198 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
Brioche (Entei) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Extrasensory
Actual Dragon (Garchomp) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Protect
Shinfry (Shiftry) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Protect
252+ Atk Bronzong Rock Slide vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Charizard: 136-160 (84.4 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And that's really the only notable Rock Slide I was able to survive and that I actually needed to survive T1.
Still, wanting to be realistic, any attempt to swap a skill or get a setup move on a hyperaggressive team like this is not going anywhere: you both waste sun turns, and also have a very vulnerable comp that rarely if ever can afford to spend a turn not killing something or risk the AI getting a setup or status off itself.
Oh and
note that this also affects the AI in similar ways: opposer Clorophil users will not get the Chloro boost turn 1, and if the AI has another weather active before you mega AND a swift swimmer / slush rush / sand rush mon as well, they *are* getting the speed boost turn 1.
You see, I faced the same dilemma: I could have used other stuff aside from Tyranitar, but at that point, it's not a "sand" team anymore, it's just M-Tar + another 3 mons. Sand itself also doesn't even give defensive benefits to non rock types compared to sun/rain which at least neuter some offensive types / provide bonus to certain moves of other mons.
I've found Gigalith however to be a pretty strong "lead setup", it has access to powerful moves for a Sand based comp like Wide Guard and Gravity which neuter both the vulnerability to opposer Surf / EQ / Blizzard, and the necessity of inaccurate moves, on top of also potentially ignoring fliers/levitaters immunity to Earthquake, while also having very strong bulk of its own (it's very hard to 1hko without a Z move or very strong supereffective stab), actually strong offensive power, and also completely prevents the AI from setting TR against you... if you can keep him alive, I suppose.
Last edited:
I never even thought about that. That's maddening.
I've been tossing around the idea this morning of a combination TR and sand team with Gigalith + TR lead and Mega Steelix in the back as the sand abuser. Any thoughts? I haven't thought of who I would use as the TR setter or who the fourth would be, but I think that might be my best bet at making sand work.
I will just say 3 words: Bronzong, Gravity and ReptoAbysmal
Ah I remembered I wanted to look at Bronzong as a setter thanks for reminding me
If Gravity and Mega Steelix/Gigalith are your MO then Musharna is the optimal setter. HH plus Sand Force will manage to net OHKOs on many bulkier targets. It also gives Steelix more freedom with EQ and an answer to Rotoms. Gigalith HH Explosion is also extremely abusable.
Awesome I was looking at Telepathy Musharna I'm glad that wasn't a ridiculous thing to think. I think I'm gonna give some variation of this team a go
Oranguru can have telepathy as well, but Inner Focus is basically half of the reason one would use Oranguru to begin with, since it's one of the few TR setters that are not ghost type and are able to have 2 hax immunities (in this case, Flinch + either taunt or status)
Oranguru doesn’t get Helping Hand, either. While it can use Gravity, it’s not a very good user of it because of its speed. Gravity is best used by things with 30 base or below since only a couple usable things fall below that mark (opening with the move is more lenient.) This assumes the user is also your TR setter who won’t be doing much if any killing.
Playing setters to their strengths, which you should, there’s basically no reason to use Oranguru if Instruct isn’t its sole purpose. Inner Focus is a selling point akin to Aroma Veil; it’s a needless handicap to use anything else.
Playing setters to their strengths, which you should, there’s basically no reason to use Oranguru if Instruct isn’t its sole purpose. Inner Focus is a selling point akin to Aroma Veil; it’s a needless handicap to use anything else.
Thanks! I had no idea that had been used in the Subway haha, thanks for pointing it out! It's so weird to see BD Snorlax without Return, but it's cool to see they were using Relaxed, fully defensive as well!
And yes, I'm aware of the trainer differences between US and UM, but I'm committed to Sun, I made that choice :P
Happy day! After a ton of struggles in the format, I finally finally finally finally finally finally have my Multis stamp in Sun!
The key to success was blatantly trying to copy one of the better Multis teams published here so far:
Imagine taking this general concept, making it slightly shittier because you have nothing better to work with, and throwing it out there:
"Gus" (Tapu Bulu) (Lvl.100) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/30/31/x/31/30 (Bottle Capped)
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb
Eisenhertz's Choice Band Bulu from his trade thread, re-tooled to be a poor man's Scarf Bulu (poor because not being Jolly causes it to lose out on some fairly important speed tiers). I maintained the simple EV spread because I figured that, with the loss of Speed, it would need every bit of Speed investment it could get. By and large, Wood Hammer and Rock Tomb were the selected moves of choice (I may have used the other two less than five times total-combined). "Nicknamed" after The Punisher Arcade Game enemy.
ThinkingCap (Tapu Lele) (Lvl.100) @ Psychinium-Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 31/xx/xx/31/31/xx (Bottle Capped to 31/xx/31/31/31/31)
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic (Shattered Psyche)
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Protect
The same Lele from Fight Club (Remix) , and since I was feeling adventurous at the time, I decided to go ahead and re-tool the EVs to match Shutterpike's. I also figured, "well, it's using Sub, the spread has to be more nuanced to support this concept." Subs ended up coming into play more often than I would have thought given the blistering pace of Multis, and being Protect bait for Poison attacks was invaluable at several points throughout the run. I ended up using Psychic more than Psyche, strangely enough (then again, Psychic Surge is a hell of a boost to have around). Still nicknamed after the Diablo I Unique helmet.
AI Partner: Entei3/Latios2
To this point, scouting for Scarfed Volcanoes has been a two-sided story: while the Volcanoes themselves are good enough to get me to the 40s, the backups--necessary for those pinches when my 'mons are countered by something, or when Flash Fires appear--have been mediocre at best. I've drawn Regigigas3, Regirock1, and Breloom3 as backups for the Volcano--I like those last two in principle, but there's no way I can tell you they are worth a damn in Multis (well, unless the opponent is dumb enough to let Rock1 get a Curse or two in). So, when I had my most recent Anabel Battle in Doubles, and she led with these two, there was no way I was going to pass the opportunity up. Latios2 relies on Draco Meteor to contribute (which brings its own set of problems), and it picks odd times to Protect, so it's not a solid AI choice by any means. Still, it was the best I had to work with at the time that I concocted this idea, so I rolled with it.
This team struggled with Fire-absorption Abilities less than anticipated, mainly because few of them showed up. Pairing Entei3 with Bulu is a stroke of genius that should be more obvious than it is: just pound away at the asses of those Water-types, frail Fire resists, and specially bulky foes who threaten to spoil the Lava-Spewing Party. The main issues here were against Arcanine (both of its regular Abilities are bad news for the leads, and Sets34 are too fast and powerful for Lele to try and save the situation), Crobat (all sets are 2HKOed by Full Eruption, and in the meantime it outspeeds and Crosses both Tapus), Rock Tomb's shaky accuracy (which led to a loss against Arcanine4 in my first attempt with this team), and the aforementioned dum-dum issues with Latios2.
Still, I knew I had a potential winner here when the first attempt with the team went to a pretty fast 39 wins before falling to Kiawe/Grimsley (or really, Arcanine/Drapion (Set 4)). The next run featured far fewer appearances by the sorts of things that could potentially knock this team for a loop, although Arcanine still made sure to be a regular presence. And so, I eventually managed to scrape my way to the Legend Battle (or as I like to refer to it for Multis, the Magenta Battle), and then had a tense but fairly easy time of it.
Thanks to Eisenhertz for the Bulu, to my Liege turskain for the team concept to shamelessly rip off, and to everyone who was present last night on the Battle Tree Discord to guide me through the heart-pounding Magenta Battle (I'm not kidding, I was fairly stressed during that battle and my chest was thumping throughout).
So, since I finally have all of my stamps, I should probably get to work linking to , and compiling, all of my stamp runs--will take some time though, both of my other stamp writeups are pretty far back in the thread and I've never linked to them anywhere else, I don't think. Time to check for any rewards one gets for getting all three...
Doubles Stamp Run (my adaptation of 'Doobs')
Singles Stamp Run (SuMo BP Collection Global Mission QR Rental Singles Sample Team)
Replays:
- vs. Anabel, Entei3/Latios2/Snorlax4/Raikou4 -- U5FG-WWWW-WWWZ-9KKP
The Anabel Battle that supplied me with the key to success, featuring my most recent idea for Tree Doubles, 'DubWitch and the Dubchics'.
- Battle 42, vs. Tasanee (Crobat/Arcanine) & Stein (Aromatisse4/Turtonator3) -- 8XZG-WWWW-WWWZ-9KPR
Both of my biggest enemies for this run appear on one Trainer, putting me on the ropes from the start...until I'm able to take Aromatisse4's TR and work it to my advantage. Also features ReptoAbysmal's favorite Tree set and why, under most circumstances, it's actually not that bad.
- Battle 44, vs. Xenohpon (Whimsicott/Exeggutor2) & Cal (Cofagrigus3/Bronzong4) -- ABBG-WWWW-WWWZ-9KR4
All things considered, my best performance of the home stretch, when the team is fucking, clicking, and wrecking (not necessarily in that order)
- Battle 45, vs. Candy (Virizion/Latias3) & Priya (Cresselia2/Cobalion) -- HZJW-WWWW-WWWZ-9KSU
My Nemesis makes a thoroughly unwelcome appearance, trying to stop history and turning this into a 44-TURN SLOG. At the same time, Substitute on Lele is made justified by this battle alone. My Liege must have foreseen that Cresselia2 would try to impede this team's progress...
- Magenta Battle, vs. Red (Blastoise3/Venusaur3) & Blue (Tyranitar4/Gyarados3) -- XJPG-WWWW-WWWZ-9KVQ
The battle for all of the marbles. Because of who these guys rolled on this occasion, the victory was a little faster and easier than I had predicted going in, although Gyarados3 going for a second Dragon Dance when it could have changed the tides of battle at +1 certainly helped. Although several Trainers were on-site at Discord for the play-of-play of this, the biggest credit goes to SadisticMystic and his Tree-climbing Suciune for making sure I thought out all of the possible Turn 1 scenarios before making my move.
The key to success was blatantly trying to copy one of the better Multis teams published here so far:
Posting an AI Multis streak of 109 wins.
Tapu Bulu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SDef / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb
Shutterpike (Tapu Lele) @ Psychium-Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Protect
AI Partner: Entei3/Mawile3
Imagine taking this general concept, making it slightly shittier because you have nothing better to work with, and throwing it out there:
"Gus" (Tapu Bulu) (Lvl.100) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
IVs: 31/30/31/x/31/30 (Bottle Capped)
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb
Eisenhertz's Choice Band Bulu from his trade thread, re-tooled to be a poor man's Scarf Bulu (poor because not being Jolly causes it to lose out on some fairly important speed tiers). I maintained the simple EV spread because I figured that, with the loss of Speed, it would need every bit of Speed investment it could get. By and large, Wood Hammer and Rock Tomb were the selected moves of choice (I may have used the other two less than five times total-combined). "Nicknamed" after The Punisher Arcade Game enemy.
ThinkingCap (Tapu Lele) (Lvl.100) @ Psychinium-Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 31/xx/xx/31/31/xx (Bottle Capped to 31/xx/31/31/31/31)
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic (Shattered Psyche)
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Protect
The same Lele from Fight Club (Remix) , and since I was feeling adventurous at the time, I decided to go ahead and re-tool the EVs to match Shutterpike's. I also figured, "well, it's using Sub, the spread has to be more nuanced to support this concept." Subs ended up coming into play more often than I would have thought given the blistering pace of Multis, and being Protect bait for Poison attacks was invaluable at several points throughout the run. I ended up using Psychic more than Psyche, strangely enough (then again, Psychic Surge is a hell of a boost to have around). Still nicknamed after the Diablo I Unique helmet.
AI Partner: Entei3/Latios2
To this point, scouting for Scarfed Volcanoes has been a two-sided story: while the Volcanoes themselves are good enough to get me to the 40s, the backups--necessary for those pinches when my 'mons are countered by something, or when Flash Fires appear--have been mediocre at best. I've drawn Regigigas3, Regirock1, and Breloom3 as backups for the Volcano--I like those last two in principle, but there's no way I can tell you they are worth a damn in Multis (well, unless the opponent is dumb enough to let Rock1 get a Curse or two in). So, when I had my most recent Anabel Battle in Doubles, and she led with these two, there was no way I was going to pass the opportunity up. Latios2 relies on Draco Meteor to contribute (which brings its own set of problems), and it picks odd times to Protect, so it's not a solid AI choice by any means. Still, it was the best I had to work with at the time that I concocted this idea, so I rolled with it.
This team struggled with Fire-absorption Abilities less than anticipated, mainly because few of them showed up. Pairing Entei3 with Bulu is a stroke of genius that should be more obvious than it is: just pound away at the asses of those Water-types, frail Fire resists, and specially bulky foes who threaten to spoil the Lava-Spewing Party. The main issues here were against Arcanine (both of its regular Abilities are bad news for the leads, and Sets34 are too fast and powerful for Lele to try and save the situation), Crobat (all sets are 2HKOed by Full Eruption, and in the meantime it outspeeds and Crosses both Tapus), Rock Tomb's shaky accuracy (which led to a loss against Arcanine4 in my first attempt with this team), and the aforementioned dum-dum issues with Latios2.
Still, I knew I had a potential winner here when the first attempt with the team went to a pretty fast 39 wins before falling to Kiawe/Grimsley (or really, Arcanine/Drapion (Set 4)). The next run featured far fewer appearances by the sorts of things that could potentially knock this team for a loop, although Arcanine still made sure to be a regular presence. And so, I eventually managed to scrape my way to the Legend Battle (or as I like to refer to it for Multis, the Magenta Battle), and then had a tense but fairly easy time of it.
Thanks to Eisenhertz for the Bulu, to my Liege turskain for the team concept to shamelessly rip off, and to everyone who was present last night on the Battle Tree Discord to guide me through the heart-pounding Magenta Battle (I'm not kidding, I was fairly stressed during that battle and my chest was thumping throughout).
So, since I finally have all of my stamps, I should probably get to work linking to , and compiling, all of my stamp runs--will take some time though, both of my other stamp writeups are pretty far back in the thread and I've never linked to them anywhere else, I don't think. Time to check for any rewards one gets for getting all three...
Doubles Stamp Run (my adaptation of 'Doobs')
Singles Stamp Run (SuMo BP Collection Global Mission QR Rental Singles Sample Team)
Replays:
- vs. Anabel, Entei3/Latios2/Snorlax4/Raikou4 -- U5FG-WWWW-WWWZ-9KKP
The Anabel Battle that supplied me with the key to success, featuring my most recent idea for Tree Doubles, 'DubWitch and the Dubchics'.
- Battle 42, vs. Tasanee (Crobat/Arcanine) & Stein (Aromatisse4/Turtonator3) -- 8XZG-WWWW-WWWZ-9KPR
Both of my biggest enemies for this run appear on one Trainer, putting me on the ropes from the start...until I'm able to take Aromatisse4's TR and work it to my advantage. Also features ReptoAbysmal's favorite Tree set and why, under most circumstances, it's actually not that bad.
- Battle 44, vs. Xenohpon (Whimsicott/Exeggutor2) & Cal (Cofagrigus3/Bronzong4) -- ABBG-WWWW-WWWZ-9KR4
All things considered, my best performance of the home stretch, when the team is fucking, clicking, and wrecking (not necessarily in that order)
- Battle 45, vs. Candy (Virizion/Latias3) & Priya (Cresselia2/Cobalion) -- HZJW-WWWW-WWWZ-9KSU
My Nemesis makes a thoroughly unwelcome appearance, trying to stop history and turning this into a 44-TURN SLOG. At the same time, Substitute on Lele is made justified by this battle alone. My Liege must have foreseen that Cresselia2 would try to impede this team's progress...
- Magenta Battle, vs. Red (Blastoise3/Venusaur3) & Blue (Tyranitar4/Gyarados3) -- XJPG-WWWW-WWWZ-9KVQ
The battle for all of the marbles. Because of who these guys rolled on this occasion, the victory was a little faster and easier than I had predicted going in, although Gyarados3 going for a second Dragon Dance when it could have changed the tides of battle at +1 certainly helped. Although several Trainers were on-site at Discord for the play-of-play of this, the biggest credit goes to SadisticMystic and his Tree-climbing Suciune for making sure I thought out all of the possible Turn 1 scenarios before making my move.
Attachments
Last edited: