Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
So I've decided to have another crack at Super Doubles, focusing again around the Ribombee-Oricorio combination. Only made it to 46 battles with this so far so any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Ribombee pulls her weight and then some. Her insane speed, immunity to Fake Out, and Focus Sash ensures that she can always get at least one QD off, and usually 2. I've been surprised at how long she tends to last and how easy it's been to get a third or even fourth QD in. The general strategy is to Protect with Ori while Bee Quiver Dances and attempt a sweep from there; the objective is not to sweep with Bee, but boosted Struggle Bug does a respectable amount of damage even against foes who resist it, and the fact that it hits both foes is extremely useful. It also makes Oricorio even more able to shrug off Special attacks. There's rarely time to use Reflect unless Oricorio has fainted, and even then Struggle Bug is generally more useful in conjunction with Gyarados' Intimidate. Safeguard is literally never used.
Oricorio (F) @ Lum Berry
Revelation Dance
Hidden Power (Ice)
Air Cutter
Protect
252 SpA/Speed, 6 HP (Timid)
Unsure of precise IVs but close as possible to max to allow for an Ice-type Hidden Power, SpA IV is 30 iirc
The star of the show. I chose the Baile Form purely on aesthetics - I have been contemplating switching to the Ghost-type form but for now I'm happy with the coverage afforded by Fire/Ice/Flying. Oricorio is a borderline monster with Dancer, able to score KOs after a single boost. I almost always Protect on turn 1 even if one of the foes is an easy kill such as Scizor to be able to scope opponent's sets and because Oricorio has a tendency to get targeted by both foes. Also, it mitigates any stray Z-moves. Air Cutter is weak but the spread damage and high crit rate is incredibly useful, bringing numerous foes into KO range for whoever comes in next. Lum acts as a shield against status which would otherwise ruin her. After a couple of QDs Oricorio is generally able to tank a special Water or Electric move from most foes. She's still far from bulky though and needs to sweep quickly to survive.
Physical rock-types are a problem. The nightmare scenario is coming up against two Rock-types. In that instance, Oricorio will usually Protect whilst Ribombee is swapped with Gyarados, who can generally survive the switch and KO one of them with Waterfall. Gyarados being Rock-weak is an issue, but I'll get onto that.
Gyara is hella bulky once it Mega Evolves. I've wondered about keeping Dragon Dance, but it has proven useful against bulkier foes (and obviously benefits Oricorio if she's still alive). The other moves are fairly standard. Gyara almost - almost - fits every criteria I needed for a third team member: physically bulky, strong against Rock-types, and supports the rest of the team. It's just a shame she's weak to Rock. The only other candidate I can think to replace her would be Hitmontop (who keeps Intimidate and has a grab-bag of priority moves whilst helpfully resisting Rock) but Hitmontop is much slower and doesn't have the immediate offensive presence Gyara does.
Silvally @ Choice Band
Double-Edge
Thunder Fang
Zen Headbutt
Explosion
252 Att/Spd, 6 HP (Jolly)
31/31/31/x/29/31
Having used Silvally in Singles with not much luck, I decided to try him on this team. I've toyed with the idea of making him Ground or Fighting type, but the power loss from Choice Band is just too great. 99% of the time it's a choice between Double-Edge and Thunder Fang: DE is tremendously strong, and can take a sizeable chunk out of most Rock-types. Explosion is very rarely used in conjunction with Oricorio's Protect. I would actually peg Silvally as the most consistent team member: it's excellent at finishing weakened foes, and outspeeds a surprising amount.
So I've decided to have another crack at Super Doubles, focusing again around the Ribombee-Oricorio combination. Only made it to 46 battles with this so far so any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Ribombee pulls her weight and then some. Her insane speed, immunity to Fake Out, and Focus Sash ensures that she can always get at least one QD off, and usually 2. I've been surprised at how long she tends to last and how easy it's been to get a third or even fourth QD in. The general strategy is to Protect with Ori while Bee Quiver Dances and attempt a sweep from there; the objective is not to sweep with Bee, but boosted Struggle Bug does a respectable amount of damage even against foes who resist it, and the fact that it hits both foes is extremely useful. It also makes Oricorio even more able to shrug off Special attacks. There's rarely time to use Reflect unless Oricorio has fainted, and even then Struggle Bug is generally more useful in conjunction with Gyarados' Intimidate. Safeguard is literally never used.
View attachment 142352
Oricorio (F) @ Lum Berry
Revelation Dance
Hidden Power (Ice)
Air Cutter
Protect
252 SpA/Speed, 6 HP (Timid)
Unsure of precise IVs but close as possible to max to allow for an Ice-type Hidden Power, SpA IV is 30 iirc
The star of the show. I chose the Baile Form purely on aesthetics - I have been contemplating switching to the Ghost-type form but for now I'm happy with the coverage afforded by Fire/Ice/Flying. Oricorio is a borderline monster with Dancer, able to score KOs after a single boost. I almost always Protect on turn 1 even if one of the foes is an easy kill such as Scizor to be able to scope opponent's sets and because Oricorio has a tendency to get targeted by both foes. Also, it mitigates any stray Z-moves. Air Cutter is weak but the spread damage and high crit rate is incredibly useful, bringing numerous foes into KO range for whoever comes in next. Lum acts as a shield against status which would otherwise ruin her. After a couple of QDs Oricorio is generally able to tank a special Water or Electric move from most foes. She's still far from bulky though and needs to sweep quickly to survive.
Physical rock-types are a problem. The nightmare scenario is coming up against two Rock-types. In that instance, Oricorio will usually Protect whilst Ribombee is swapped with Gyarados, who can generally survive the switch and KO one of them with Waterfall. Gyarados being Rock-weak is an issue, but I'll get onto that.
Gyara is hella bulky once it Mega Evolves. I've wondered about keeping Dragon Dance, but it has proven useful against bulkier foes (and obviously benefits Oricorio if she's still alive). The other moves are fairly standard. Gyara almost - almost - fits every criteria I needed for a third team member: physically bulky, strong against Rock-types, and supports the rest of the team. It's just a shame she's weak to Rock. The only other candidate I can think to replace her would be Hitmontop (who keeps Intimidate and has a grab-bag of priority moves whilst helpfully resisting Rock) but Hitmontop is much slower and doesn't have the immediate offensive presence Gyara does.
Silvally @ Choice Band
Double-Edge
Thunder Fang
Zen Headbutt
Explosion
252 Att/Spd, 6 HP (Jolly)
31/31/31/x/29/31
Having used Silvally in Singles with not much luck, I decided to try him on this team. I've toyed with the idea of making him Ground or Fighting type, but the power loss from Choice Band is just too great. 99% of the time it's a choice between Double-Edge and Thunder Fang: DE is tremendously strong, and can take a sizeable chunk out of most Rock-types. Explosion is very rarely used in conjunction with Oricorio's Protect. I would actually peg Silvally as the most consistent team member: it's excellent at finishing weakened foes, and outspeeds a surprising amount.
Have you considered Tailwind and Pollen Puff over Reflect and Safeguard? If you pretty much never use them, I'd think that a speed boost and a healing move would be a far better fit for the team. Tailwind especially would help Silvally get attacks off since it sits at a mediocre 95 speed unboosted, and Pollen Puff could keep it healthy while it spams Double Edge.
Have you considered Tailwind and Pollen Puff over Reflect and Safeguard? If you pretty much never use them, I'd think that a speed boost and a healing move would be a far better fit for the team. Tailwind especially would help Silvally get attacks off since it sits at a mediocre 95 speed unboosted, and Pollen Puff could keep it healthy while it spams Double Edge.
Yeah, I'm thinking Pollen Puff is probably a better option than Safeguard - it's probably more productive to heal Ori (and the others).
I see your point about Tailwind but since 3 of the 4 Pokemon on the team have a way of boosting their Speed I feel like it might be redundant. I've not found Silvally's speed to be an issue (yet, at least).
Yeah, I'm thinking Pollen Puff is probably a better option than Safeguard - it's probably more productive to heal Ori (and the others).
I see your point about Tailwind but since 3 of the 4 Pokemon on the team have a way of boosting their Speed I feel like it might be redundant. I've not found Silvally's speed to be an issue (yet, at least).
Helping Hand and Ally Switch can also be options if you're unsure of Tailwind. Ally Switch would let Silvally and already Mega'd Gyarados face fighting types better since Ribombee can just take the fighting type moves for them, and it has other uses too
In addition to this, you could probably consider going Wide Lens for accurate Air Slash (really, ditch Air Cutter, the lowered spread damage is so low on an already low BP move you're better off hitting something with Air Slash) or even a Power Item / Z-crystal over Lum on Oricorio.
Also, I'd recommend Salamence over Gyarados. You keep Intimidate and access to Ddance, and get better typing, more immediate speed and power (both Return and Double Edge have strong damage coming off Mega-Salamence) while having access to a stronger Earthquake if you please.
In addition to this, you could probably consider going Wide Lens for accurate Air Slash (really, ditch Air Cutter, the lowered spread damage is so low on an already low BP move you're better off hitting something with Air Slash) or even a Power Item / Z-crystal over Lum on Oricorio.
Also, I'd recommend Salamence over Gyarados. You keep Intimidate and access to Ddance, and get better typing, more immediate speed and power (both Return and Double Edge have strong damage coming off Mega-Salamence) while having access to a stronger Earthquake if you please.
Air Cutter is weak but the crit rate and the fact I'm always attacking at at least +1 compensates. If I'm not able to get a kill with it I can at least bring foes down to ~50%. It's also incredibly useful when it comes to picking off weakened foes. Honestly, it's saved me a lot of times. I just don't think Air Slash would improve on it.
Random question - what do you reckon to Scizor instead of Gyarados? I have a bulky HP/Attack Adamant Scizor with Swords Dance and since Scizor resists Rock I was thinking it might synergise well. No idea re item choice, perhaps Occa Berry.
Would be quite fine, given the rest of your team--lately we have been arguing that the main items to stick on Scizor that seem to work are Life Orb and Scizorite. Mega Scizor is hella powerful and has sufficient bulk to suit your needs, and the LO set gives you more immediate power through -further-boosted Bullet Punch alone.
The big negative there, of course, would be no Intimidate support...you also add more of a Fire weakness to the team, though given what Ribombee's role is I'm sure that's not much of a concern for you.
I actually disagree with Mega Salamence in this scenario because it gives him no really good STAB to hit Rock types, while having three Pokemon weak to them. Gyarados at least has a super effective STAB on them while being able to take neutral hits from Rock types when Mega Evolved.
Perhaps the weak point in this is Silvally. If you were thinking about making it a Fighting or Ground type, presumably to deal with Rock types, you're probably better off using a different Pokemon. A Ground type like Garchomp or Excadrill probably wouldn't be too bad of a choice. Can switch into Electric moves for Gyarados, Rock moves for the whole team, and can bring in a potential Z-Move user on the team.
I actually disagree with Mega Salamence in this scenario because it gives him no really good STAB to hit Rock types, while having three Pokemon weak to them. Gyarados at least has a super effective STAB on them while being able to take neutral hits from Rock types when Mega Evolved.
Perhaps the weak point in this is Silvally. If you were thinking about making it a Fighting or Ground type, presumably to deal with Rock types, you're probably better off using a different Pokemon. A Ground type like Garchomp or Excadrill probably wouldn't be too bad of a choice. Can switch into Electric moves for Gyarados, Rock moves for the whole team, and can bring in a potential Z-Move user on the team.
You make a good point about Silvally. If it only learned a Ground move... I did actually initially consider Garchomp in place of Gyarados. I think I'm going to try out Scizor and if it doesn't pull its weight I'll swap it out for a Garchomp. Perhaps something like:
Garchomp @ Rockium-Z (Rough Skin)
Outrage
Earthquake
Iron Head
Rock Slide
252 Att/Speed, 6 HP (Adamant)
I think you are better with Groundium-Z on Garchomp, because you want to fight your rock weakness iirc. Also it gives you one turn where you can hit a strong Ground Move without hurting your team mates, in contrast to EQ where you always want to protect with non immune team mates.
(Another thing: Outrage in doubles is risky since you cant decide which pokemon you want to attack. You could bypass this problem also a little by giving it dragonium-Z, or dragon claw. But outrage alone is really unreliable in doubles)
I think you are better with Groundium-Z on Garchomp, because you want to fight your rock weakness iirc. Also it gives you one turn where you can hit a strong Ground Move without hurting your team mates, in contrast to EQ where you always want to protect with non immune team mates.
(Another thing: Outrage in doubles is risky since you cant decide which pokemon you want to attack. You could bypass this problem also a little by giving it dragonium-Z, or dragon claw. But outrage alone is really unreliable in doubles)
Also, absolutely
1) use Protect in place of one of the moves, potentially ditch Rock Slide
2) Do not use Adamant. Use Jolly. You'll drop below 100 speed tier which is a extremely crowded tier expecially when it comes to tree.
If that was my team and the leads must stay intact, I'd replace Garchomp's Iron Head with Swords Dance or Substitute, run Tailwind on Ribombee (strongly agreeing with paper's suggestions; I would keep Garchomp Jolly because Ribombee, by itself, is an unreliable setter and prefers to use QD anyway, but would otherwise switch to Adamant), and perhaps Mega Kangaskhan instead of Silvally (largely because of Fake Out). If you keep Silvally, I would absolutely axe Zen Headbutt and Thunder Fang; even neutral Return surpasses either of these hitting a x2 weakness when normalized for accuracy (160 * .9 == 144 < 153; alternatively go with the "oh no 90% accurate move" reasoning which isn't always applicable in Doubles, but I think it would be here since the added power over alternatives is far from justifying the risk), to say nothing of Double-Edge. I would consider Normal Gem (and Protect) vs. Choice Band, as the former avoids being forced into immediate Explosion as a comeback move when Silvally itself would live, but the rest of the team is in danger, or being restricted with having to Protect allies against the Explosion at inopportune times (e.g. having already used a Protect), or using Explosion into allies when those allies must immediately act to ensure Silvally will get to fire.
Assuming that you have sufficient ways to deal with Whimsicott and Shiinotic, the only relevant fairy that you need to hit with a non-Ground move is Togekiss (in which case one of two post-50 sets lacks Fairy moves, not that two attacks Chomp could touch it), which is why I don't see much value in Iron Head or Poison Jab (if anything, I'd run the latter since it hits Grasses that resist your superior STAB)
e: suggestions remain as such if the team has taken the shape of M-Gyara / Garchomp backline too
Sorry for the delayed response to this, for some reason I didn't get a notification.
Normal Gem is a good idea on Silvally, I hadn't even considered it. (Mainly because I'd largely forgotten about the Gems since the Normal one is the only one obtainable.) I think I will make that switch since Choice Band does occasionally prove restrictive. What would you suggest other than TF and ZH? I chose them basically for coverage.
Jolly Garchomp has been useful. I'm actually considering switching (again), though - since I need a Rock resist I've been wondering about Kommo-o, since it gets Dragon Dance which synergises well with Oricorio and can use All-Out Pummelling against Rock-types. I think Garchomp will ultimately prove more effective since it has immediate power and speed, but I'm curious nonetheless.
Oricorio can slaughter basically every Grass-type, so neither Whimsicott or Shiinotic have proven an issue (I'm wondering whether I should switch to using an Oricorio with HP Grass, though - Fire/Grass/Flying would seem to have better type coverage than Fire/Ice/Flying does). Most Fairies tend to be physically weak so Silvally can usually take them down, and Oricorio is generally able to beat Togekiss.
Since Oricorio can use Protect (and should always have received at least one boost of its own before any partners are sent out) it's not such a priority to provide it with Tailwind support. I mean, Ribombee, Garchomp, and Silvally are already pretty fast, and 99 times out of 100 Oricori is guaranteed a boost at the start of battle: at +1, she outruns almost everything. It's also just an issue of 4-moveslot syndrome, as well: Ribombee could use it, but both she and Ori are far better off with QD.
I'm coming around to the idea of Kommo-o, though. I initially thought about Dragon Dance but Soulblaze really does outclass it. I've got a 5IV Adamant Hakamo-o I might use; I could breed another but I don't see the use of going with a nature that lowers its defences - even with Adamant I think Soulblaze remains a decent option. Something like:
Kommo-O @ Kommonium Z
Clanging Scales
Close Combat
Earthquake
Poison Jab
6 HP, 252 Att, 4 Def, 248 Speed (Adamant)
Only needs 248 Speed at level 50 to outrun Electrode and other base 150s at +1 if my calculations are correct, so I've moved the spare 4 EVs to Defence. I'm not sure how much better this will do than Garchomp, but it'll be interesting to find out...
I've played around with Parting Shot Silvally in singles and I think it worked much better there. If I was allowed five moves I'd probably run it, but I think offense is more productive when it usually comes out towards the end of a fight. Same goes for Tailwind. I'm thinking potentially Double-Edge/Crunch/Iron Head/Protect (holding either a Normal Gem or a Life Orb) might work better. (Or possibly even drop Protect and stick with Thunder Fang, who knows.) I never get to use Explosion anyway (and since it usually comes out third or last I rarely want to) and obviously Protect means its partner can Earthquake with impunity. Agh, too many options!
Since Oricorio can use Protect (and should always have received at least one boost of its own before any partners are sent out) it's not such a priority to provide it with Tailwind support. I mean, Ribombee, Garchomp, and Silvally are already pretty fast, and 99 times out of 100 Oricori is guaranteed a boost at the start of battle: at +1, she outruns almost everything. It's also just an issue of 4-moveslot syndrome, as well: Ribombee could use it, but both she and Ori are far better off with QD.
I'm coming around to the idea of Kommo-o, though. I initially thought about Dragon Dance but Soulblaze really does outclass it. I've got a 5IV Adamant Hakamo-o I might use; I could breed another but I don't see the use of going with a nature that lowers its defences - even with Adamant I think Soulblaze remains a decent option. Something like:
Kommo-O @ Kommonium Z
Clanging Scales
Close Combat
Earthquake
Poison Jab
6 HP, 252 Att, 4 Def, 248 Speed (Adamant)
Only needs 248 Speed at level 50 to outrun Electrode and other base 150s at +1 if my calculations are correct, so I've moved the spare 4 EVs to Defence. I'm not sure how much better this will do than Garchomp, but it'll be interesting to find out...
I've played around with Parting Shot Silvally in singles and I think it worked much better there. If I was allowed five moves I'd probably run it, but I think offense is more productive when it usually comes out towards the end of a fight. Same goes for Tailwind. I'm thinking potentially Double-Edge/Crunch/Iron Head/Protect (holding either a Normal Gem or a Life Orb) might work better. (Or possibly even drop Protect and stick with Thunder Fang, who knows.) I never get to use Explosion anyway (and since it usually comes out third or last I rarely want to) and obviously Protect means its partner can Earthquake with impunity. Agh, too many options!
I think Couer was saying that your team should have Tailwind or some type of speed control of you included Kommo-o on the team, since it can sometimes struggle to get into a position where it can Soulblaze safely.
I am kinda interested in seeing how a more physically based Soulblaze Kommo-o would work out, but I'm concerned about Soulblaze itself lacking some power. You're effectively weakening your strongest attack with an Adamant nature, and with the way I see it, Soulblaze should get you a double KO each time you use it, to ensure its safety. But, either way you go, I highly suggest that you have Protect on your moveset. It helps you get into position to Soulblaze safely and bait some attacks, especially Fairy type moves with that nasty 4x weakness. Not having Protect against an all Fairy team like what Xio could have basically means you start off a game basically in a 3v4. At least with Protect, you can make things somewhat safer for your partner for a turn. In my mind, I would replace Earthquake with Protect, as I feel that Close Combat has very similar coverage to it, but with more power being STAB and a higher base power without the spread damage penalty. Also, you're wasting 4 EVs in Speed on that Kommo-o spread, and 244 EVs should get you the same benchmark you want, so those extra 4 EVs could go into Special Defense, just to not waste them.
I think Couer was saying that your team should have Tailwind or some type of speed control of you included Kommo-o on the team, since it can sometimes struggle to get into a position where it can Soulblaze safely.
I am kinda interested in seeing how a more physically based Soulblaze Kommo-o would work out, but I'm concerned about Soulblaze itself lacking some power. You're effectively weakening your strongest attack with an Adamant nature, and with the way I see it, Soulblaze should get you a double KO each time you use it, to ensure its safety. But, either way you go, I highly suggest that you have Protect on your moveset. It helps you get into position to Soulblaze safely and bait some attacks, especially Fairy type moves with that nasty 4x weakness. Not having Protect against an all Fairy team like what Xio could have basically means you start off a game basically in a 3v4. At least with Protect, you can make things somewhat safer for your partner for a turn. In my mind, I would replace Earthquake with Protect, as I feel that Close Combat has very similar coverage to it, but with more power being STAB and a higher base power without the spread damage penalty. Also, you're wasting 4 EVs in Speed on that Kommo-o spread, and 244 EVs should get you the same benchmark you want, so those extra 4 EVs could go into Special Defense, just to not waste them.
Adamant isn't ideal but Kommo-o's got such good bulk I didn't want to compromise either one of them. The only other option is to go Brave or Quiet which is even less ideal. Can't see myself scoring a lot of double KOs with Soulblaze. I see your point about Protect, I was just taken with the idea of using Earthquake alongside Ori. Again, it's a four-moveslot problem. But yeah, CC is probably generally a better option.
Posting a Super Doubles streak of 2074 wins with Kommo-o / Talonflame / Togedemaru / Mega Kangaskhan, and a streak of 792 wins with Togedemaru / Golisopod / Kommo-o / Mega Kangaskhan. Both on Ultra Moon.
Starting with the summary and set details of the various teams used throughout playing and tweaking the teams. Before USUM's release I doubted Kommo-o's viability even with its new Z-move due to its lacking coverage and many weaknesses - suffice to say I was wrong. I initially set out to try it with the following line-up:
The plan was to use Fake Out support, Nuzzle speed control, and Lightning Rod to avoid Kommo-o's low base Speed becoming a problem. This one fell in the 400s to Mega Alakazam - and I reworked the line-up to try and resolve this problem and others.
Initially with the same Golisopod set as on Team Brexit, but later with Icy Wind replacing Sucker Punch. I played this team for a long time and while playing it, worked on the trainer cheatsheet specifically to help identify and learn how to approach specific threat trainers to this team. It was at this time I started thinking of threats and dangerous battles as "specific problem Trainers" rather than problem species first and foremost, which helped a lot in preparing for various circumstances. This team made it to the 700s twice, with the best attempt finish at 792 wins.
I also tried a rearrangement of the previous team with Golisopod/Kommo-o leads and Togedemaru back-ups. I felt this one had promise and solved some of the problems, but eventually I gave up on this team and made one more change, keeping lead Kommo-o but ditching Golisopod in favor of an option I neglected all along.
The 2074-win lineup. Talonflame had been nerfed, but fulfilled similar roles to Golisopod with strong priority against many Kommo-o bad match-ups, and speed control with Tailwind. It also had excellent synergy with Togedemaru and Kangaskhan, and settled the speed problems for good. STAB Flare Blitz with Life Orb was also a crucial attack, enabling Mega Mawile to be removed, or put in KO range for anything in case it had Intimidate. Togedemaru's set was adjusted, replacing Nuzzle with Zing Zap to try and compensate for Talonflame being weak to Waters, unlike Golisopod and the need for Nuzzle being lessened with Tailwind support - this worked as intended, increasing Togedemaru's offensive presence. There were a couple of early losses before the succesful attempt with this team, but less battles total than I played with Pod/Maru variants.
Now for a few more stray thoughts. Since these teams share a lot of Pokémon and I used different sets on some of them, I'll start with set summaries of all the 6 Pokémon.
Mahler (Togedemaru) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Level: 50
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Zing Zap
- Fake Out
- Spiky Shield
Lead, Fairy removal tool, Bait Steel-type for Toxic immunity
Speed control, Lightning Rod supporter, Fake out control
On Zing Zap sets, does not OHKO bulky Waters but provides the necessary denting to put them in range for allies
Not a suicide lead by default - often best switched out while still in good health or after Sash is broken
Initially, I thought of it as a Sashed Fake Out lead, but later found it performed best as a Sash-holding back-up, counterintuitively
Jolly Nature for Speed. I did not try out any other natures.
I initially had 4/4/4 defenses for efficiency, but 244 Atk had a 1/16 chance to miss the OHKO on Florges, so I changed to a 252/252 spread.
Spiky Shield - an essential move for baiting attacks, which it does a lot with Steel/Electric typing, and spending turns under TR, and in other conditions - can't go wrong with an upgraded Protect
Lightning Rod support - T-Wave for Kommo-o was the original idea, but it also helps Golisopod when leading. With Talonflame, the benefits of Lightning Rod only became bigger.
Focus Sash with Steel-typing - not broken by Sand, but threatened by Hail, burn damage, and other residual damage - between Lightning Rod and Steel-typing, Togedemaru can counter Zapdos2, Cresselia2, Blissey4 in combination with switch stalling if played correctly, and it has sufficient HP to survive possible Struggles
STAB Iron Head - from USUM tutors, this move was essential for hitting Fairies, I never tried anything else as primary STAB
Speed control with Nuzzle - it can make foes slower so Soulblaze moves first, or eliminate Mimikyu with a Nuzzle + Iron Head combination to first slow it down and break Disguise, then snag the KO. With Talonflame, I ditched this move as Tailwind already filled the need for speed control.
Fake Out support - for any of the three teammates. Especially notable is Fake Out + Lightning Rod to allow Talonflame to use non-priority Tailwind after Gale Wings has been broken, if the situation allows for it.
PRESERVATION LEVEL: High when against trainers who have Mimikyu, Togekiss, or multiple Fairy-types on their roster - High against Zapdos2, Cresselia2 as a reliable check if it is at high health. Against Trainers without Fairies, or specific threats that Togedemaru checks (Zapdos2, Cresselia2) on the roster, LOW - the distinction is very important, Togedemaru can range from least priority/sac to being the most important team member to keep in good health, and the trainer you're up against determines its role.
Zing Zap - on Talonflame ver, replaces Nuzzle for a more offensive option, to compensate for Talonflame matching up poorly against Waters compared to Golisopod, and with Speed control necessity from Togedemaru being lessened.
The first constant on all the teams, Togedemaru was the starting point I had for supporting Kommo-o and it always stayed on. Its effectiveness, and higher utility compared to Raichu, or other Lightning Rod users can't be overstated - even with base 96 Speed and a physical set that does not benefit from Special Attack boosts, this Pokémon delivers with its Steel/Electric typing and valuable STAB coverage for Kommo-o pairings. This Pikaclone is simply a tremendous upgrade over its brethren, very reliable and versatile, and exceptional support whether it's in the lead or in the rear.
Nuzzle provides 100% accurate paralysis and breaks Sash and Disguise - an excellent move to use on Mimikyu, one of Kommo-o's counters. With Togedemaru/Golisopod leads, there is an inherent passivity and slowness, which screams a vulnerability to Volcarona, Gyarados, Haxorus, and other Speed-boosting foes - with Speed halved from paralysis, these can be slowed down a lot, but care must be taken since it only halves their speed. At +2, Gyarados34 outspeed pre-Soulblaze Kommo-o when paralyzed, and Volcarona does so at +3. When moved to the rear with Talonflame in front, I ditched Nuzzle in favor of Zing Zap, but I would still recommend Nuzzle for the Pod/Maru incarnation of the team.
Togedemaru's relatively low base 96 Speed does become an issue for using Nuzzle to control speed. If it is facing two faster foes, being KO'd before moving isn't great, and can make Nuzzle unusable - speed Trainers are especially guilty of this. In cases like this, Spiky Shield + Icy Wind, or Fake Out + Icy Wind, or switching around may be an alternative. With Talonflame leading, Tailwind is a considerable boon to Togedemaru while active, and it provides good coverage and decent enough damage to work well offensively with the other team members.
After losing Focus Sash, Togedemaru becomes vulnerable to a wide array of faster foes. Unlike Sucker Punch users, Togedemaru lacks the tools to keep on going, and is left with the option to Spiky Shield, get sacced, or switch out if it encounters a bad 3rd or 4th Pokémon coming in with its Sash broken. Having Mega Kangaskhan on the team makes the sac option of these more viable, with a second Fake Out user after Togedemaru has dropped capitalizing on the space created by Togedemaru being KO'd.
- Kommo-o2. It holds Cheri Berry - why this and not Lum Berry? Whatever the reason, Nuzzle does not hit this thing and the possibility of Soundproof makes things worse.
- Garchomp3. Why are Ground-types immune to Nuzzle? If Pikachu can KO Onix, Nuzzle should damn well be able to paralyze Grounds, but I digress.
- Traced Lightning Rod - Porygons, Alakazam, Gardevoir, etc
- Lum Berry - no users as memorable as Cheri Berry Kommo-o2 come to mind right now
- Lack of priority - against Speed Trainers, two foes faster than Togedemaru are not uncommon and being outsped to disable Nuzzle feels bad. Using both Icy Wind and Nuzzle with the logic that if one fails, the other still works is an option but Icy Wind accuracy and miscallenous hax can quickly make this backfire.
- I liked Nuzzle Mimikyu on Pod/Maru and would not use Zing Zap on that team, but Gale Wings Tailwind is clearly a superior, and much more reliable form of Speed control and was a huge improvement over relying on this move.
Zymbals (Kommo-o) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Level: 50
Modest Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Cleaner, Z-move user, set up sweeper - works in the rear or in the lead
Depends on one or more of Tailwind, Nuzzle, Icy Wind and Fake Out supporting it, and Protect to bring in or utilize said support
When in the rear, ideally comes in from Emergency Exit, a switch, or one of the leads being KO'd to safely use Soulblaze for 1-2 KOs and securing a good sweeping position
On rare occasions, switched in on Turn 1 while Togedemaru is using Fake Out or Spiky Shield - usually comes in later, but proactive deployment is not to be neglected when possible
PodMaru's team idea is to set up Soulblaze reliably using the leads to pivot and cripple first - if the leads are such that Kommo-o can Soulblaze on them without speed control assistance, capitalize on the opportunity and avoid unnecessary damage or sacs on the leads
Later leads Kommo-o/Golisopod and Kommo-o/Talonflame instead put Kommo-o back in the front, instead paired with Speed control to be used while Kommo-o protects - a change motivated by various factors but most notably Garchomp3, Salamence, Charizard34, and other opposing Dragon-type issues.
Nature: I tried several natures over the course of the team: Hasty, Mild, Modest, and Timid. I settled for Modest in the end - the power boost on Soulblaze, Scales, and Flamethrower having a more favorable calc on Mawile felt most important, and Timid would be a possible second choice for slow teams - notably, Timid can hit 150 Speed, outspeeding Mimikyu4 at 148.
EV spread: Max speed for 137 - Whimsicott34 sits at 136 - the rest into a simple 244/4/4/4 for efficiency. I tried out some bulk investment in exchange for special attack, but found it not that useful, and Kommo-o drops its own defenses which decreases the applicability of defensive calcs depending on situation.
Clanging Scales - turns into Soulblaze, deals damage - I tried various nature for Kommo-o, and eventually settled on Modest for the Soulblaze/Scales damage, and Flamethrower having more favorable calcs on Mega Mawile
Close Combat - secondary STAB that deals enough damage even with a Modest nature (thanks to people on the Tree Discord for bringing up Modest)
Flamethrower - more than anything else essential for hitting Mega Mawile, a decent coverage move otherwise
Protect - absolutely mandatory, it allows a variety of plays for supporting Kommo-o such as - Protect + Sac, Protect + Switch, Protect + Emergency Exit, Protect + Nuzzle, Protect + Icy Wind
Bulletproof - blocks Beak Blast, Focus Blast, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball in order of importance - Toucannon devastates attackers that make contact, ie the entire rest of the team, and would hit Kommo-o supereffectively were it not for this abilty
The other half of the team. Kommo-o's good qualities can be summed up in one move: Clangorous Soulblaze, the new Z-Move that boosts all of its stats and hits both foes. When using this move, and after using it, Kommo-o is a great Pokémon - the question becomes if it can effectively use the move, and get to stay on the field after using it. On all iterations of the team, I brought two Fake Out users, Togedemaru and Kangaskhan, to help it out, but this alone was never enough - Inner Focus, ghosts, multiple faster foes, you name it. Speed control was necessary to cover a greater number of situations, which I tried Nuzzle and Icy Wind for, but eventually realized that Tailwind was the best move for making Kommo-o go first when required.
It should be noted that Clangorous Soulblaze is still not a win condition by itself if succesful. There are many foes that completely counter Kommo-o even when omniboosted - many of the tree's Fairies, Garchomp3, opposing Kommo-o, freezes, crits - there's no shortage of not-so-rare incidents that can halt Kommo-o in its tracks. In these cases, having two Fake Out-using allies provides a lot of potential for cleaning up hopefully weakened foes and coming back from a deficit. Fake Out also helps prevent many of Kommo-o's counters from stopping a sweep, if brought in with Protect + a switch or sac or otherwise. Fake Out is not just for using Clangorous Soulblaze - it retains high utility for extending the effectiveness of a Kommo-o sweep after.
Wide Guard users in the Tree are the same ones as in the Maison - Bastiodon4 the common user, Regigigas4 as another, and Mienshao4. Clangorous Soulblaze has its damage quartered by the move, but the omniboost is still gotten so it's not a bad thing usually. Clanging Scales is fully blocked, so Close Combat and Flamethrower should be preferred if these foes are a possibility after using Soulblaze.
Aggron34. Metal Burst is bad news - Aggron3 wants to be hit with +1 Flamethrower at some point in the battle, ideally Aggron's set is scouted before using Soulblaze but it might be necessary to risk it.
Cobalion2. I once crit this thing through Maranga Berry, and it survived then OHKO'd Kommo-o back with Metal Burst. This one shouldn't be a problem unless Soulblaze crits so I would still use Soulblaze on it - as a possible precaution, damaging Cobalion2 so it's in guaranteed KO range for CH Soulblaze is an option but getting a crit then Metal Burst isn't the most common thing to run into.
Toxapex34. Toxa3 carries Red Card, and can use Baneful Bunker randomly at any time - attacking it with an ally is not reliable, because the allied attack gets blocked by Baneful Bunker, and then Soulblaze pierces it to activate Red Card and instantly phaze Kommo-o. In a vacuum, the preferred solution is to target the Toxapex slot on two consecutive turns with allies before Kommo-o moves, so that even if it Bunkers on Turn1, an ally hits it first and triggers the Red Card - but if Tox's ally needs to be hit with Soulblaze, taking the hit may be necessary. Getting Ice Beamed by this Toxapex is also bad news, so it punishes both attacking it with Red Card phazing, and leaving it alone with freeze risk.
Electrode34. Mirror Coat on Set3 if it isn't Soundproof, and it can be Soundproof.
Exploud34. Soundproof.
Bouffalant34. Soundproof.
Kommo-o1234. Soundproof. Often, using Scales or Soulblaze is still something that is preferred for getting the boosts, or hitting its ally and having a 2/3 chance of hitting Kommo-o, but consider using +1 Close Combat without scouting its ability in cases where other foes are a lesser concern and opposing Kommo-o could be a huge issue if Soundproof. The Speed-boosting sets, Kommo-o2 (Dragon Dance) and Kommo-o3 (Autotomize) are the main concern, as they outspeed the whole team including +1 Kommo-o after a boost.
Abomasnow3. Soundproof in case it does not have Snow Warning, and is Sashed to survive an allied attack - stay vigilant especially if you're playing on Sun where Sina carries this set. Set4 Mega Evolves if it is able and gains Snow Warning.
Togedemaru3. Red Card - same as Toxapex, except less common, and less threatening overall since it is walled by Togedemaru. Still obnoxious.
Rhyperior3. Metal Burst OHKOs Kommo-o back - not great, but sometimes the risk may be worth it. I misplayed into this thing quite a few times. Set4 having Protect, and Continental Crush to OHKO Talonflame through Protect adds extra complications to the match-up.- Bisharp4. Metal Burst - unlike other Metal Burst users, this one's got Taunt and uses it a lot, but it can still be an unpleasant surprise.
Sableye4. Metal Burst - super rare set, think I got hit by this thing once.
Mirror Coat users with Ice move: particular Suicune, Tentacruel, Milotic sets - I've seen Mirror Coat but these also pose the threat of Freeze, so there are a variety of possible issues - honorable mention especially to Tentacruel34, with Set4 spamming protect to absorb hits while Set3 threatens Blizzard/Mirror Coat while holding Sash and wants to be double targeted.
Vanilluxe4. Mirror Coat - as an Ice-type it mostly gets Flare Blitzed and is best never left alive anyway.
Not Liepard3 - this set has Red Card, but it is OHKO'd by Soulblaze. It may survive +1 Clanging Scales and remove boosts, but by that point it's probably too late for the AI.
Minior3. Red Card. I forgot this set existed before looking it up for this write-up, and it is rare - only included on Janitor rosters.
As a weak point, it is difficult to switch in directly from the rear - the other back-up is generally first to be sent out, with Kangaskhan entering the field last
Nature: Adamant is my preferred nature for Tree Kangaskhan, maximum power for Fake Out and Sucker Punch, maximum recovery on Drain Punch - this team has heavy speed control, as well as Fake Out support, so the extra Speed from Jolly is optional, though even on teams without speed control I would use Adamant as first choice.
Double-Edge - high damage output, in the Maison I found Return a fine option as well but with Parental Bond's nerf, Double-Edge with an Adamant nature feels necessary for adequate damage
Drain Punch - coverage, recovery, and importantly a move that does not inflict recoil even when Double-Edge would be more damaging than it
Sucker Punch - the nerfs to this move and Parental Bond hurt a lot, but it's still an essential move for hitting Mega Alakazam and other targets weak to it, having another non-recoil move, and the now less common neutral priority hits when desired
Fake Out - essential control to support the team and good chip damage
Scrappy - hits Ghosts prior to Mega Evolution, essential against Mimikyu, Jellicent, useful on some other things
The third constant. Mega Kangaskhan is still good after the nerfs, and Fake Out never stops being useful. It's also one of the best Fairy checks - it matches up poorly against Mawile, Mimikyu and Carbink, but the rest of the Tree's Fairy roster with generally low Defense is ripe for picking. A natural choice for Kommo-o teams, it also checks Alakazam, Starmie, Azelf (depending), and a garden variety of other Psychic-types. You can't go wrong with Kangaskhan. It also works well with Golisopod, as seen on Team Brexit, and Talonflame, one of its classic Maison partners. Sharing a Fighting-weakness with Togedemaru is a drawback, but Togedemaru holding Sash helps with this. Having two Fake Out users on the team works great, providing ample control to get Kommo-o and Talonflame online against unpreferable foes. I've kinda neglected back-up Fake Out in the past, but the move is high-value whether in the lead or in the back - priority is fantastic for cleaning up weakened foes and finishing battles, and Fake Out's flinching property for extra control makes it the best priority move. If we're counting Maison, back-up Khan with Fake Out was something I found very effective in Super Rotations - and it's right at home in Doubles, too. Togedemaru/Golisopod/Kangaskhan, and Talonflame/Togedemaru/Kangaskhan are both cores of three priority users augmenting the speed-disadvantaged Kommo-o, and with priority the more the merrier, to stack up multiple priority attacks for ignoring foe Speed.
There are counters to priority - Queenly Majesty from Tsareena, and Dazzling from Bruxish block all priority moves, and care must be taken to not forget about these and try to use Tailwind if possible to avoid having to use priority on them. The sole Quick Guard user past Battle 40 is Cobalion4 - I rate it a lesser concern than the priority-blocking Abilities, and it feels like it uses the move relatively rarely. But it is something to watch out for.
Mimikyu needs another mention - it counters Kommo-o, and Set4's Rocky Helmet severely damages Kangaskhan, which can only damage it with Sucker Punch after Mega Evolving. Against foes that have Mimikyu4 on their roster, consider delaying Kangaskhan's Mega Evolution to retain Scrappy for the purpose of hitting a possible back-up Mimikyu. The other fairy that can give Kangaskhan gray hairs is Mega Mawile, crippling it with Intimidate and resisting the Normal STAB - Flamethrower and Flare Blitz with Fake Out support are essential for disposing of it.
Brexit ([Golisopod) @ Assault Vest
Level: 50
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 220 Atk / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Aqua Jet
- Icy Wind
- Leech Life
Lead & Trick Room check
Alakazam counter
Bulky water check
Speed control support, absorbs hits to create space
Pivoting with Emergency Exit
Excellent defensive synergy with Togedemaru's Steel/Electric
Reliable priority chip
EVs: 4 Spe for 61 to outspeed base 40s, and opposing Golisopod, a slight Attack cut to put more into Defense for Garchomp3 Outrage calc (49% max so it does not activate Emergency Exit, outside CH) and minor bulk increase, possibly unimportant
Nature: Adamant - a possible option is Brave with a low Speed IV, for the purpose of making Trick Room users not set the field condition due to Golisopod underspeeding them. I did not think of this while playing the team - a Speed stat of 41 or 42 with a Brave Nature would make most TR setters attack or use status moves other than TR, per research done by Smuckem. This would help with some things and hurt with others, and make Icy Wind a little less effective for helping Golisopod against slow foes it would otherwise outspeed after an Icy Wind or two. Trick Room is an issue, so this change sounds good.
First Impression - a move that counters Alakazam34 (Mega Alakazam may trace Lightning Rod), and has reliable damage output against many others
Aqua Jet - Golisopod is slow, I experimented with Liquidation but found the priority of Aqua Jet indispensable for coverage and reliability
Icy Wind - speed control, with Golisopod's bulk it can use the move in many situations to make opposition slower than any of the three teammates - essential against Salamence34 and opposing Kommo-o1234, which otherwise wall Golisopod and threaten the whole team
Leech Life - sustain, and a high-BP STAB move that can be used after First Impression is expended - essential for wearing down and trading with bulky Waters such as Suicune, Slowbro - valuable under Trick Room to stall out its duration assisted by recovery
Emergency Exit support & momentum preservation - an incredibly versatile ability with "late U-turn" utility - after a foe has hit Golisopod, bringing in Kommo-o safely with that foe's turn spent, to set up Soulblaze for the following turn - resets First Impression - synergizes with Assault Vest and Leech Life to decrease the amount of undesired activations - Golisopod's natural bulk and Assault Vest means it is very rarely OHKO'd, and in most battles this ability will activate, to at least passable effect
Sucker Punch - part of the set at first, before I tried Icy Wind as a replacement - not a high-value move, especially since Kangaskhan already has a stronger Sucker Punch
The first idea I had for a Mega Alakazam check that would work on a Kommo-o team. First Impression OHKOs any Alakazam and Emergency Exit could theoretically allow pivoting to avoid other bad match-ups for Kommo-o. With a weakness to Electric, it appreciates Lightning Rod. Ice/Water resists and Leech Life allow it to take on most opposing Waters with confidence, including Slowbro/Slowking and most TR setters as long as it's not burnt.
Now that I'm trying to write about Golisopod I'm not coming up with much - Golisopod with Assault Vest is very bulky, uses Icy Wind or priority moves or Leech Life, and performs relatively consistently. Icy Wind accuracy, low Speed, and suspectibility to Emergency Exit activation, flinches, and confusion before it moves if using Icy Wind or Leech Life are its weaknesses, and can stack up to make it deadweight if things aren't going right. Honorable mention to Rock Slide, Outrage random targeting, Dragon Rush flinches, Stone Edge crits, and Mega Mawile (Set4 Stone Edge has a high chance to OHKO).
U-Ship (Talonflame) @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 28 SpD / 20 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect
Lead
Tailwind setter
Priority attacker - LO Brave Bird OHKOs Alakazam, Greninja, others
Fake Out & Lightning Rod beneficiary - slow after losing Gale Wings, but support allows it to function and often set Tailwind anyway
Mawile check - OHKO without Intimidate, 95% max at -1
Requires babysitting - keeping Gale Wings, when needed, makes all the difference
EV spread: 20 Speed EVs hits 149 Speed to outspeed Mimikyu4 (148 Speed), max Attack, the rest in bulk - HP/4/4 would result in a HP stat of 182, so I moved 3 points from HP to Special Defense to reduce HP to 179 for minimizing Life Orb recoil. I experimented with different Talonflame spreads using more Speed EVs, but found that a spread similar to what I liked best in the Maison was still preferable even with Gale Wings being nerfed, with the adjustment of slight Speed investment for specifically outspeeding Mimikyu, one of Kommo-o's counters.
The moves need no introduction - for a Talonflame in battle facilities that can choose moves, the usual four have been the go-to aside from a niche Taunt or Quick Guard in the lead position. For the hold item, Life Orb is the best remaining option after the Z-crystal is taken up by Kommo-o. Since Brave Bird inflicts recoil damage anyway, for Gale Wings purposes it's the strongest non-Choice/non-Z boosting item available, and boosting Flare Blitz is great.
Leading next to Kommo-o, Gale Wings remains Talonflame's selling point. It can set the field condition while Kommo-o protects, or attacks - but crucially, also provides immediate offense with LO Brave Bird when against slower foes, or to snipe Alakazam or other problem foes. Togedemaru provides switch options into Electric, and if willing to break Sash, Rock and neutral moves. After Tailwind is set, the Speed increase benefits Talonflame if it's still alive, with Gale Wings broken.
The nerf to Gale Wings is a pretty massive blow to Talonflame's utility, make no mistake - Fake Out support or Lightning Rod maneuvers, or both felt essential for helping it get off the ground. It took me a long time to realize Talonflame was the right choice for this team, and I thought it was shit when I tried it with Tapu Bulu before.
Hammerhead (Landorus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Ice
- Protect
Cleaner
Electric immunity
Check to random things
Immune to ground, complements Mega Kangaskhan well
In retrospect, not the choice the team needed
The original 4th Pokémon. It wasn't a very good choice, though it did serve adequately. A write-up was intended to be here, but since this Pokémon was swiftly scrapped, there's nothing to be found.
Then a similar series of stray thoughts on each lineup and the development process.
Mahler's Zymbals
The first iteration. I had various mistaken impressions about Kommo-o prior to USUM's release, such as that its Fairy weakness would be too difficult to cover. Anyway, when I looked at this Pokémon its low Speed stat, and suspectibility to all sorts of status, faster foes, and especially Fairies stood out - leading to the Kommo-o/Togedemaru core that has been the team's center since. Togedemaru got Iron Head from USUM tutors, solidifying it as a check to opposing fairies, on top of Lightning Rod and Fake Out with a very solid Steel/Electric-typing. For the Electric-move, I opted for Nuzzle - I did not think Kommo-o would be succesful with only Fake Out to support it, and Nuzzle adds an additional method to control opponents and solve the speed issues.
The back-line was a toss-in of Mega Kangaskhan and Landorus, without particularly much theorymon employed - of note at this point is that though Togedemaru has Lightning Rod, only two of the team members are suspectible to Electric-type moves, and one of them resists the type... let's just say it was a work in progress. With this team, I played a couple hundred battles, and eventually lost to a Mega Alakazam lead that I was ill-equipped to do anything about - it could trace Lightning Rod to block Nuzzle, and if it were Alakazam4, it could also have Inner Focus to prevent Fake Out. Things were looking bleak and I concluded this team had simply no way of including reliable answers to Alakazam - Kangaskhan Sucker Punch alone could not handle it, when paired with other moderate or high threats.
I was impressed by the Toge/Kommo-o/Khan core, and the dual utility of both Fake Out as well as Nuzzle speed control provided by Togedemaru. Double Fake Out seemed quite good for supporting Kommo-o.
Landorus did something, but not a lot and shared weaknesses and also wasn't that fast.
After the loss I was racking my brain thinking of how a Kommo-o/Togedemaru core would possibly address the Alakazam problem. The answer I came up with was a Pokémon I had used before.
Mahler's Exit
Rather than leading Kommo-o, which made several match-ups impossible when paired with Togedemaru, Golisopod took the lead position running the old Team Brexit set with Assault Vest.
Golisopod checked several boxes: firstly, it was a hard counter to Alakazam, and some others as extra. The priority allowed it to function reliably in most battles - something Kommo-o was not very good at doing. Assault Vest bulks it up, and in combination with Leech Life allows it to take on bulky waters and trade blows under Trick Room.
Kangaskhan worked well on the first iteration of the team, and it remained on the line-up unchanged.
Kommo-o was moved into the rear - the concept of Golisopod was to use it as a pivot, like Volt Switch using its ability Emergency Exit, while also having a hard counter to many of Kommo-o's worst match-ups in the lead.
Togedemaru stayed the same, with Nuzzle, Iron Head, Fake Out, and Spiky Shield - Nuzzle's permanent crippling effect tied into the Emergency Exit idea, with foes being slowed down forever, while Golisopod could wait however long it takes for Emergency Exit to activate and pivot in Kommo-o safely.
This lead line-up led to some absurd battles, and was by far the slowest, and most passive Doubles team I've played. It also put me firmly out of my comfort zone, with a total departure from my usual approach of lead control combined with instant high-damaging offense that doesn't require set-up turns to claim a lead.
Eventually I lost decisively to a Kommo-o2/Salamence34 lead combination. Kommo-o2 holds Cheri Berry which make Nuzzle ineffective against it, so I could not stop it from going fast with Dragon Dance, and Golisopod could basically do nothing to most Dragons. Not good...
The solution I came up with it after this loss was a move I had neglected - Icy Wind, Golisopod's new toy from USUM tutors. This move would allow Golisopod to effectively serve a speed control role, and enable it to set up wins against Dragons, Flying-types and various speed boosters that otherwise walled or didn't care about it.
With Icy Wind, the line-up finally came together and after numerous losses while I was still trying to wrap my brain about how to play a very bizarre strategy (for battle facility doubles standards) I reached 700 wins and lost shortly after.
I kept trying, convinced this team had potential for a streak of 1000 or more - I reached 700 wins again, but proceeded to lose again - note that there were other earlier losses in between these two attempts, all of which are included in the battle video compilation.
While playing this team, I started making the trainer cheatsheet (link) since I found that it was very sensitive to trainer match-ups, and that my knowledge of enemy rosters was seriously lacking. Using the cheatsheet increased my success rate by a lot, and I would consider frequently consulting the trainer list absolutely essential for playing this team and its variants, especially for trainers that can run Mawile, Mimikyu, Primarina, or other fairies - even Comfey, Carbink and Ribombee can be very threatening depending on circumstance.
This is the variant of the team I played the most battles on, eclipsing the version I eventually settled on. It was fun to play and a big learning experience in how to plan long-term win conditions around unknown foe lastmons, using the whole team by default and not primarily the leads to set such a situation up.
Mahler's Exit (rearranged)
Rather than having Kommo-o as a cleaner - a task I found it had failed in after quite a few losses to Mimikyu, Comfey, even Ribombee - I put it back in the lead position where I started, convinced that it should instead be used as an early-midgame sweeper to punch holes into the enemy team for the back-ups to clean up. I kept the 4 species the same while so doing, as I was convinced by their synergy and power. This change made the team signfiicantly easier to play - but I still lost and went back to the drawing board after a couple of attempts.
Kommo-o lead position was the right choice by now in my mind - it was Golisopod's Icy Wind, as well as Nuzzle that were letting me down. Icy Wind was inaccurate, and crucially only dropped Speed by one stage - meaning it could not address Garchomp3, a major problem for leading Kommo-o. There was already a Pokémon that could fill Golisopod's role as co-lead better...
Mahler's Flight
Talonflame, a Pokémon I had already used possessed similar traits to Golisopod, and others the team would benefit greatly from:
Checking Alakazam with Gale Wings BB
Speed control to support Kommo-o, with Gale Wings Tailwind - Icy Wind, except reliable, and provides more speed to allow outspeeding Mega Charizard, Garchomp3, and basically everything necessary, without accuracy issues or possibilities for hax or premature EE activation
Checking Fairies - especially Mega Mawile would be OHKO'd by LO Flare Bitz without Intimidate, and put into KO range if it had Intimidate - as well as Mimikyu, these two Fairies were the bane of Golisopod's, and Kommo-o's existence before.
More offense in the lead position - coming full circle now, from the ultra-passive Togedemaru/Golisopod leads into LO Brave Bird + Clangorous Soulblaze as a Turn 1 option against TR setters and slower foes in general.
With Talonflame added, it seemed Nuzzle would be unnecessary, and extra damage against Water-types that Golisopod used to check with Zing Zap valuable, and adjusted Togedemaru's set accordingly. I made no changes to the team after this, aside from experimenting with different EV spreads for Talonflame, and consider it finished.
The leads. Options to start with include:
Protect + Tailwind
Protect + Brave Bird
Soulblaze + Protect
Soulblaze + Brave Bird
Soulblaze + Tailwind
Switching out either lead + Tailwind/Soulblaze
Consider if Tailwind is necessary or beneficial - against some Trainers, notably Scientists and Breeders, the whole roster is slower, but other Trainers depending situation may also not particularly benefit from the Tailwind advantage. With Lighting Rod, any expected Electric attack or T-Wave is a good opportunity for switching it into either slot to absorb these hits and their status risks.
Note that Kommo-o can first switch out, and return to the field later in the match to use Soulblaze on the last turn of Tailwind, and/or with Fake Out support - it mainly appreciates the Tailwind boost before being omniboosted, and is fine without Tailwind once it has received the boosts* (exceptions apply). Making extended maneuvers or sacs to get Kommo-o into a position to sweep with a Speed advantage is a central point of both Flight and Exit, though with Talonflame a lot of the time a simple Protect+Tailwind will suffice - but depending on the situation, switching around and using Fake Out or removing threats first can be preferable.
Since Gale Wings is gone after Talonflame either takes recoil from an attack, or damage from any source, it may only be able to use one "reliable priority move" - a downside of the nerf to Gale Wings. Bad decisions that end up not utilizing Gale Wings effectively may make Talonflame deadweight. Lightning Rod, and Fake Out go a long way to let Talonflame function after losing Gale Wings, if the circumstances allow for it.
Commonly deployed with a Turn1 switch while Protecting, Tailwinding, or Attacking, while being threatened by Electric-type moves, T-Wave, or intending to sac Talonflame for a Fake Out + Soulblaze turn 2 with Kommo-o coming in to revenge.
Great synergy defensively and offensively, and the best support Talonflame can ask for, eclipsing even the old Gastrodon. Fake Out can enable Tailwind use after losing Gale Wings.
It is generally preferred that Tailwind is set if deploying this combination and the Trainer has foes faster than Kommo-o that threaten it in the rear - so that Kommo-o can be reasonably assured to outspeed with Soulblaze, after either or both of these Pokémon drops to bring it in.
Togedemaru resists Fairy and Flying, Kommo-o's two defining weaknesses - switching into strong Moonblasts or Play Rough is possible but the risks must be considered, Mega Mawile is to be treated with extreme caution as its Sucker Punch can snag both Togedemaru and Talonflame after only slight prior damage. I got Talonflame sniped by Sucker Punch trying to Flare Blitz Mawile at least once and losing the check to Mawile is very bad - Fake Out should be used to avoid this risk if Talonflame is in KO range, if possiblef.
Deployed with a Protect and switch, or Protect + Tailwind/Attack into sac most commonly.
Lightning Rod protects Kommo-o from T-Wave, allowing it to avoid crippling speed drops and FP stopping its sweep cold.
Fake Out support is invaluable, and STAB Iron Head + Zing Zap hits all fairies not named Mega Mawile for good damage, with all of the Tree Fairy roster save for Mawile being more suspectible to physical attacks.
Lightning Rod finds Togedemaru many switch opportunities - the Rock resist is less valuable, as Stone Edge, Continental Crush, still hurt quite a lot and will often 2HKO Togedemaru.
One of Togedemaru's weaknesses is its neutrality to Water moves. Hydro Pump or another Water move on the switch may be preferable to sac Talonflame on instead, rather than losing Togedemaru's Sash early and possibly giving it one or more less Zing Zaps down the line, but the case is not clear cut and should be considered depending on the trainer match-up.
Togedemaru is not immune to Freeze - it should as a generalization only be switched into possible Ice attacks when "absolutely necessary", and saccing Talonflame preferred to deploy it if Ice moves are being used, rather than risking a switch.
With Kangaskhan in the rear, using Protect on Kommo-o while Togedemaru uses Nuzzle/Zing Zap and is sacced can bring in additional Fake Out support if Togedemaru is not positioned to provide. Another possibility is to Protect on Kommo-o while switching in Kangaskhan into an attack that may KO it - for the purpose of bouncing Togedemaru back in for Fake Out, or vice versa.
Kangaskhan only rarely switches in directly. In most circumstances, the 3rd Pokémon to send out after a team member is KO'd is Togedemaru - its Fake Out, and Spiky Shield with Focus Sash provides the greatest flexibility as 3rd for most purposes, but in some cases - especially with Tailwind active and depending on what is on the foe's side - it is an option to send out Kangaskhan third, but this is riskier than Togedemaru on average, and I recommend it primarily when Tailwind is active, to make Kangaskhan's Double-Edge and Fake Out move faster than opposing Fake Out and faster foes.
Notable exception: with two Fake Out users, it is possible to make a sacrifical switch when having one out at current time and one in the rear - protect Kommo-o, or more rarely Talonflame, while switching in the rear Fake Out user - if the switch-in survives, it can use Fake Out, and if it is KO'd the Fake Out user that was switched out can then use Fake Out, for a high cost guaranteed Fake Out setup - this is a heavy investment, but can allow using Soulblaze or Tailwind in otherwise risky situations to set up and sweep with higher odds against an unknown last Pokémon that will by default be slower if Tailwind is active, or Kommo-o is omniboosted.
The rarest field state to end up in, as often Talonflame is KO'd or has been switched out by the time Kangaskhan enters the field, and Togedemaru forms a stronger field when paired with Talonflame.
Talonflame/Kangaskhan synergy with Brave Bird for Fighting-types is good, but Terrakion, Cobalion, Mega Lucario, etc are not covered by Talonflame, especially due to the Gale Wings nerf making it move after these fast Fighting-types - ideally Tailwind would be up, or possible to set up to prepare for this possibility.
Almost all of them. As mentioned, I worked on the trainer cheatsheet specifically for use with this team, and referred to it when playing frequently. For some time I put a post-it note on my 3DS next to the screen, listing the trainers that run Mimikyu, who are:
Mimikyu4 Only
Police Officer Rendor
Black Belt Chucky
Dancer Carrie
Mimikyu34 Both
Office Worker Darrel
Office Worker Jana
Veteran Xio
Janitor Sika
Janitor Paulo
Also of importance are the Trainers capable of running Mega Mawile - the biggest offenders are Veteran Xio, and the Punk Guys specializing in Intimidate. Against these three trainers, I play with the assumption that the 3rd or 4th Pokémon is going to be Intimidate Mawile, and preserve either Kommo-o or Talonflame to check it.
Veteran Xio, the Fairy specialist, deserves special mention. She runs all the threatening Fairies, so against her it should be assumed that the back-ups will be the worst two out of Mimikyu, Mawile and Primarina, if they're not among the leads. Pokémon Center Lady Perri has Set234s and some Fairies, and is impossible to miss.
Against Veterans who run Zapdos2 or Cresselia2, it is crucial to preserve Togedemaru at high HP to maintain the ability to stall these out of PP. It is possible to reliably beat Cresselia2 without a Toxic immunity on your team by utilizing a switch stalling tactic where you switch a healthy (not poisoned) Pokémon into a slot, then Protect or switch it out into an already Poisoned Pokémon, and repeat this process while constantly switching out to reset the Toxic counter. If you have four Pokémon alive and one of them is not poisoned, and the others are sufficiently healthy, this allows you to stall out Toxic PP, after which the healthy Pokémon can win the PP war. It should also be doable with three Pokémon, but I prefer to stay safe and keep Togedemaru alive and healthy as a guaranteed check.
For the Zapdos2 case, once its Ancient Power has been spent Togedemaru walls it with Lightning Rod. Care must be taken to not allow Togedemaru to be hit with Ancient Power; and to use Protect on Talonflame to tank Ancient Power whenever possible, to minimize the chances of AncientPower boosts. A boosted Zapdos can very easily KO Togedemaru with Struggle in the worst case, if it comes down to a 1v1 - ideally you'll have two or more Pokémon, and plenty of HP to tank Struggle with when relying on Togedemaru's Lightning Rod to stall out Zapdos2. There are battle videos of this being done in the playlists.
If you've been following the Battle Tree Discord, you'll know that I've been slacking off on various write-ups for over a year now. Frankly I don't feel very motivated to work on write-ups and streak posting - while I enjoy playing Tree, I get very lazy when it comes to posting and write-ups start feeling like work very quick and I postpone the task indefinitely. I've also not been satisfied with most of my results, contributing to my silence in the thread.
I'm not too happy with my old write-ups either - beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that, but reading my own works feels like I didn't communicate my point properly, and did a lot of filler/forced writing and ended up with an unsatisfactory explanation. I've wanted to improve this for a while, but motivation continues to be quite lacking - I tried to do something better with this one, but ran out of fuel halfway through. There were more things I wanted to put into this, but I find article/documentation writing quite difficult. I usually started by writing in Notepad before, but used Google Sheets to draft the write-up this time and then copied, pasted and edited various thoughts to compile the write-up, which may be to blame for some of the disjointedness of this post - check out the source material used for this post if you are interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VkKMG5YjflR2c43CxBhFBTT85P93m-4y60T1sr5YxU8/edit?usp=sharing
Regardless, though this write-up is not satisfactory, I think I managed to make it a little better than before, and most importantly get it written in the first place - something that continues to be a struggle.
That's it for the slightly incomplete team description. I wanted to get 4 digits, and reached this goal with Mahler's Flight. After hitting 1000 I wanted to surpass my Maison Doubles streak numbers, which I did - in retrospect there were a lot of issues with my play in the Maison, some of which I've been able to improve on and getting bigger numbers in Tree felt like a meaningful milestone to pass. Getting 2000 was nice but I would've wanted more, at least 2500 and preferably 3000 if possible - but mistakes were made in the loss, which is regrettable. Bringing back Talonflame and getting good mileage out of it even after nerfs feels good, but I would've liked more.
I have some new and old teams to play next, hopefully to bring back more than just Talonflame. Don't get your hopes up for it any time soon, especially not for a write-up!
