I'm not only accusing you of cheating, I'm waiting for you to provide tips and anecdotes on how you played your team. I, as well as most of the people who have made such accusations, have wanted you to give us some idea of how you dealt with those threats when switch stalling threatening moves isn't an option. You have failed to do so, and your threatlist is very incomplete. Compare your writeup to other writeups of teams that have achieved similar streak length (like this 407 win streak with cloyser), and you should understand why we're pressing you so hard. For instance, exactly what does Ferrothorn's unorthodox EV spread achieve, compared to a more standard specially defensive ferrothorn?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
- Start date
If I'm required to write up an entire essay on a team of three Pokémon in order to not be labeled a cheater on this website, then I would rather not have anything to do with it at all. There are many more valuable ways I can spend my time. Goodbye.
wait but whats the ferro ev spread do though now i'm curious
252 HP / 124 Atk / 36 Def / 92 SpD
I found a couple of interesting calcs when mass calcing the spread:
124+ Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (90 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 170-204 (100 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Noivern Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Ferrothorn: 152-180 (83.9 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I also checked the lead mega alakazam matchup, which would involve ferro switching into a psychic, protecting to get 2 turns of lefties recovery, and ending up with this if its a max roll - 252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Ferrothorn: 138-164 (76.2 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (assuming no spdef drop of course). The physdef might just be leftover since I can't find any matchup that's affected by it.
It's worth noting that 124+ Atk hits a jump point, so that's likely the reason for that specific number. Considering Touko told us they didn't know about the different Tree sets being predetermined, I think it's safe to assume whatever the rest of the EVs do, they were not built to take on specific Tree sets and any "blessed calc" is accidental (from experience with the mass calc, with the sheer number of total sets, you're bound to find a bunch of blessed calcs with about every imaginable random EV spread). Maybe the EVs came from another format? I would also love to hear Touko explain them, since investing in 4 stats wastes 4 EVs, so I'd assume somewhere there was an important reason for that split?
That aside, I don't have a strong opinion on the team yet, the criticism toward it has been mostly fair, and I'd also be interested in hearing more about the streak (an essay is definitely not required, the example given was pretty extreme, but surely 400+ battles must have generated a bunch of interesting memories? it's no small feat in singles!), but I also think the team synergy is pretty solid and this has been a bit overlooked by all the criticism.
As a matter of fact, I'm currently testing the team since I had these 3 Pokémon ready in my boxes and only needed to retrain them. As I write this, I'm at battle 83 and have been very impressed, I was skeptical, but it's been working better than I thought. M-Blaziken is probably underrated as a hyper-offensive option for singles, and Ferrothorn has been an absolute monster, the glue and true MVP of the team so far! I was skeptical of the 2 inaccurate moves, but misses are very rarely a big deal. Latios, on the other hand, has been handy for its resists, but feels like the weak link, both offensively and defensively. With no bulk investment, it can't repeatedly tank resisted hits, and usually finds no time to Roost, while the Z-move barely misses out on many KOs.
I have also noticed some of the criticism come into action: Ferro is indeed the go-to switch in for water-types and inevitably receives a lot of Ice Beams and Blizzards, so I can see a loss to freeze coming at some point in the future. Also, the "no backup plan" point mentioned rings very true, as sacrificing Blaziken or Latios is sometimes a necessity without knowing the last Pokémon and whether you will need them or not. But the typing synergy has been making up for it thus far, since it's often possible to find a good switch-in and preserve.
My (preliminary) opinion from these battles would be that the team would need quite a large amount of luck to reach 400, especially if movesets aren't being looked up. But there's no denying the team is pretty good (and fun!).
If anyone else is interested in a similar exercise, I made a QR code, the EVs are exactly as instructed by Touko: https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/usum/BT-4AE1-8D7E
I'll report back once my streak with this team ends with any additional thoughts I will have gathered about it!
It’s disappointing that you place no value in your own credibility, because it’s easily interpreted as abandoning the farce. Not everyone enjoys writing lengthy writeups but there’s at least a minimum of detail and evidence come to be expected from any lengthy streak.
If everything were taken at face value, honest players would be mislead into believing that certain teams could succeed for even half the lengths that are claimed. They detract from genuine teams and encourage oneupmanship from other cheaters who seek attention as well.
And frankly, as amusing as it may be to some, it takes some nerve (and a shitload of naiveté) to try to deceive an audience without knowing them.
No one (on this particular thread) is willing to just freely give the benefit of the doubt to someone who raises as many red flags as you have; but to your credit you realised that a lot sooner than most. Goodbye indeed.
Is there any place where I can check which tree sets appear after battle 40? I never really spent a lot of time checking the sets out, but just reached 100 victories on super double and would like to get as high as possible, so I figured out that'd be essential. The spreadsheet with the sets has all of them, but I don't know which ones only appear until battle 39.
In this sheet you can click the Odds tab, and the default sort order (specifically "which Pokemon appear most frequently, on average, in a 1000-battle streak on Ultra Sun singles") will be dominated by the sets that are actually capable of appearing in endgame.
Thanks!
Felt like I was overdue to make another one of these compilations, so here it is.
What do you do when Mence or Cune goes down and you're too scared to take their mon head-on? It's time for Plan G!
This compilation seriously drained me. I haven't even got half way through the commentary yet, and I'm already getting lazy with it. There is around 2.5x as much raw footage in this as in Sleeping at the Wheel. And this isn't even my final compilation...
What do you do when Mence or Cune goes down and you're too scared to take their mon head-on? It's time for Plan G!
This compilation seriously drained me. I haven't even got half way through the commentary yet, and I'm already getting lazy with it. There is around 2.5x as much raw footage in this as in Sleeping at the Wheel. And this isn't even my final compilation...
Once I get it on YouTube I will post the video using the media option on here(don't know how to upload battle videos)
This is how I beat Red on my single battle tree run (Shout out to Max. Optimizer and Inkblot since the Pokemon I used during most of the run come from their games)
EDIT here it is
Again shout out to Max. Optimizer and Inkblot for the Pokemon that helped me get through the run
This is how I beat Red on my single battle tree run (Shout out to Max. Optimizer and Inkblot since the Pokemon I used during most of the run come from their games)
EDIT here it is
Again shout out to Max. Optimizer and Inkblot for the Pokemon that helped me get through the run
Last edited:
To upload battle videos in-game, go to the castle in Festival Plaza, and check the PC near the entrance. You will be given the option to search for battle videos or make them public.
As for the team itself, sorry to say this, but your shiny Naganadel won't quite cut it in Supers, the main reason being it'll be downlevelled to 50. Additionally, Draco Meteor and Fire Blast are not consistent and are liable to miss at the worst possible times. Naganadel also lacks the power to break through some of the Tree's scariest threats (Draco Meteor does about 2/3 to the Mega Kangas, which are common if you're playing on (ultra) Sun, while Fire Blast fails to OHKO Mega Metagross, which destroys you in return with a STAB move and is extremely scary to face as a last mon if you're down a poke)
Mega Alakazam traces Beast Boost and proceeds to mow through your team without so much as batting its moustache.
But of course, we'd be able to give you better advice if you posted your team in Showdown's teambuilder format. (Just recreate your Pokemon's stats by fiddling with the sliders if you haven't used Showdown's teambuilder before)
As for the team itself, sorry to say this, but your shiny Naganadel won't quite cut it in Supers, the main reason being it'll be downlevelled to 50. Additionally, Draco Meteor and Fire Blast are not consistent and are liable to miss at the worst possible times. Naganadel also lacks the power to break through some of the Tree's scariest threats (Draco Meteor does about 2/3 to the Mega Kangas, which are common if you're playing on (ultra) Sun, while Fire Blast fails to OHKO Mega Metagross, which destroys you in return with a STAB move and is extremely scary to face as a last mon if you're down a poke)
Mega Alakazam traces Beast Boost and proceeds to mow through your team without so much as batting its moustache.
But of course, we'd be able to give you better advice if you posted your team in Showdown's teambuilder format. (Just recreate your Pokemon's stats by fiddling with the sliders if you haven't used Showdown's teambuilder before)
Last edited:
The easiest teams to play that have been successful involve a Dragon-Steel-Water core, and both of them are available by QR code.
They are: a Dragonite-Aegi-Fini team by me made for pre-bank (SuMo QR here and USUM QR here) and a Garchomp-Scizor-Fini team that has so many variations of it, but I like this one the best.
They are: a Dragonite-Aegi-Fini team by me made for pre-bank (SuMo QR here and USUM QR here) and a Garchomp-Scizor-Fini team that has so many variations of it, but I like this one the best.
Last edited:
Can you please use the image upload feature to post the USUM QR code for the team you made because that page won't load on my phone (crappy cheap phone)
EDIT it finally loaded but can you still post it as the QR code won't show up if I m not logged in (and the phone won't log in (already tried before on my moms))
EDIT okay so it won't log in on my moms but it will on mine lNeveind it says it generates a custom code for each game so only my logged in game can use the on it gave me
Neve
Last edited:
Link to screenshot with battle video code:
I got my longest streak in any battle facility ever, with a (admittedly somewhat disappointing, personally) 180 Wins in Super Doubles.
I found this team to be fairly consistent, only really struggling with things that were faster than Raichu using Fake Out turn 1, and having a bit of an issue with Ghost-types (particularly Mega Gengar, who outpaces the entire team and threatens huge damage on everyone). I really wanted to hit 200 to get the Starf Berry, but this will have to do for now. If anyone has any suggestions to improve, I'm all ears. In particular, I've considered dropping Feint on Raichu for something more consistently useful, like Volt Switch or Protect (or maybe Nuzzle if I were to replace Fini). I've also thought of replacing Lando with something that might synergize a little better, rather than doubling up on Ice weaknesses.
Raichu @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Encore
- Thunderbolt
Part one of the lead pair, pretty much always immobilizing one of the opponents turn 1. Encore on a speedy mon is great when the foes go for non-attacking moves, and is pretty much why I chose Raichu over Togedemaru (yes toge learns Encore, but Raichu is much faster). Sash to survive any one hit, tbolt for actual damage (very nice with a Lightning Rod boost). Lightning Rod is also great to take Electric moves targeting Fini, as well as Twaves aimed at Mence. As I've already said, Feint was kind of just filler, might be better replaced by something else.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Nature: Hasty
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Flamethrower
- Protect
The other half of the lead pair, Mence provides immediate Intimidate, and threatens anything not Rock, Electric, or Steel immediately with either of it's great STAB Aerilate moves. Hyper Voice is very spammable, and Double-Edge provides a stronger single-target hit. Flamethrower helps deal with Steels (particularly Ferrothorn, which my team does not like). Not much else to say, Mence is good.
Tapu Fini @ Wiki Berry
Nature: Modest
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 108 Def / 132 SpA / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Moonblast
- Icy Wind
- Protect
Fini's type and bulk are always useful, and speed control with Icy Wind is extremely valuable. Muddy Water accuracy drops and Moonblast SpA drops often helped swing games back into my favor. Berry obviously keeps it around for much longer, Protect is obvious, Misty Terrain keeps it and Raichu safe from status. Pairing it with Raichu against any Electric is also a very easy way to get an Encore off, and render one opponent helpless.
Landorus-Therian @ Groundium Z
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Protect
Probably the team member who was least pivotal, but it was still very useful. Cycling Intimidates with it and Mence could shut down many physical attackers, and Rock Slide flinches can often seal the deal on a game. Max speed Jolly let it outpace the plethora of neutral speed nature base 100s. Superpower was originally U-Turn, but I found myself rarely using it, and Superpower offered a strong hit on things like Porygon2 and Blissey without having to pop my Z-move. Speaking of which, Groundium allowed me to still use a ground move while Raichu was alongside Lando (as well as Fini if Fini didn't Protect), and it provided great insurance against the likes of Minimize Muk and Double Team Blissey/Regigigas.
I'll probably aim for that 200 win streak again sometime soon. Coming so close only to lose to some unfortunate RNG is just a bad feel.
I got my longest streak in any battle facility ever, with a (admittedly somewhat disappointing, personally) 180 Wins in Super Doubles.
I found this team to be fairly consistent, only really struggling with things that were faster than Raichu using Fake Out turn 1, and having a bit of an issue with Ghost-types (particularly Mega Gengar, who outpaces the entire team and threatens huge damage on everyone). I really wanted to hit 200 to get the Starf Berry, but this will have to do for now. If anyone has any suggestions to improve, I'm all ears. In particular, I've considered dropping Feint on Raichu for something more consistently useful, like Volt Switch or Protect (or maybe Nuzzle if I were to replace Fini). I've also thought of replacing Lando with something that might synergize a little better, rather than doubling up on Ice weaknesses.
Raichu @ Focus Sash
Nature: Timid
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Encore
- Thunderbolt
Part one of the lead pair, pretty much always immobilizing one of the opponents turn 1. Encore on a speedy mon is great when the foes go for non-attacking moves, and is pretty much why I chose Raichu over Togedemaru (yes toge learns Encore, but Raichu is much faster). Sash to survive any one hit, tbolt for actual damage (very nice with a Lightning Rod boost). Lightning Rod is also great to take Electric moves targeting Fini, as well as Twaves aimed at Mence. As I've already said, Feint was kind of just filler, might be better replaced by something else.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Nature: Hasty
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Flamethrower
- Protect
The other half of the lead pair, Mence provides immediate Intimidate, and threatens anything not Rock, Electric, or Steel immediately with either of it's great STAB Aerilate moves. Hyper Voice is very spammable, and Double-Edge provides a stronger single-target hit. Flamethrower helps deal with Steels (particularly Ferrothorn, which my team does not like). Not much else to say, Mence is good.
Tapu Fini @ Wiki Berry
Nature: Modest
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 108 Def / 132 SpA / 28 SpD / 4 Spe
- Muddy Water
- Moonblast
- Icy Wind
- Protect
Fini's type and bulk are always useful, and speed control with Icy Wind is extremely valuable. Muddy Water accuracy drops and Moonblast SpA drops often helped swing games back into my favor. Berry obviously keeps it around for much longer, Protect is obvious, Misty Terrain keeps it and Raichu safe from status. Pairing it with Raichu against any Electric is also a very easy way to get an Encore off, and render one opponent helpless.
Landorus-Therian @ Groundium Z
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Protect
Probably the team member who was least pivotal, but it was still very useful. Cycling Intimidates with it and Mence could shut down many physical attackers, and Rock Slide flinches can often seal the deal on a game. Max speed Jolly let it outpace the plethora of neutral speed nature base 100s. Superpower was originally U-Turn, but I found myself rarely using it, and Superpower offered a strong hit on things like Porygon2 and Blissey without having to pop my Z-move. Speaking of which, Groundium allowed me to still use a ground move while Raichu was alongside Lando (as well as Fini if Fini didn't Protect), and it provided great insurance against the likes of Minimize Muk and Double Team Blissey/Regigigas.
I'll probably aim for that 200 win streak again sometime soon. Coming so close only to lose to some unfortunate RNG is just a bad feel.
Pretty much because Togedemaru is a better Raichu for almost all aspects except the base speed.
(don't get me wrong, I love Raichu too, but Togedemaru is really miles ahead)
Togedemaru suffers from the mediocre speed tier and being 4x weak to spread moves, so while it is indeed very strong, it does require some sort of support or to function well in the team. It's very great if you need the insane role compression it provides (Fake Out, L-rod, Nuzzle, double flinch stabs, immune to poison and sand, strong defensive type, even gets access to Endeavor for FEAR), but if you only need one of those, there's better options. Hitmontop Scrafty and Incineroar definitely challenge the Fake Out spot by having stronger offensive presence and Intimidate, for example, and obviously teams running Tapu Lele can't run Fake out either.
Nice sum up of Togedemaru!
I mainly wonder why there are no medium high streaks with Mega Gyarados supported by Raichu/Togedemaru. While one probably shouldnt try too hard to go for a Dragon Dance everytime, Fake Out + Lightningrod should often allow it, and with that bulk and power, Intimidate and the changing of the type of Gyara, what means he wont have to face SE hits turn one very often, this should be a very promising situation. While Paralysis with a Lightningrod on the field is very unlikely, Adamant Gyara can OHKO many Ghost or Fire Mons to prevent their will-o-wisps with his STABs. Banettes Prankster doesnt even work because of the dark type, and iirc there are about 10 sets left that carry will-o-wisp and arent OHKOed by Gyara. Also it can take Blizzards like a Champ, so a freeze might not be too terrible. And such a strong Crunch together with Fake Out/Helping Hand would be an effective protection against Trickroom. With a nice backup this seems very viable to me.
I mainly wonder why there are no medium high streaks with Mega Gyarados supported by Raichu/Togedemaru. While one probably shouldnt try too hard to go for a Dragon Dance everytime, Fake Out + Lightningrod should often allow it, and with that bulk and power, Intimidate and the changing of the type of Gyara, what means he wont have to face SE hits turn one very often, this should be a very promising situation. While Paralysis with a Lightningrod on the field is very unlikely, Adamant Gyara can OHKO many Ghost or Fire Mons to prevent their will-o-wisps with his STABs. Banettes Prankster doesnt even work because of the dark type, and iirc there are about 10 sets left that carry will-o-wisp and arent OHKOed by Gyara. Also it can take Blizzards like a Champ, so a freeze might not be too terrible. And such a strong Crunch together with Fake Out/Helping Hand would be an effective protection against Trickroom. With a nice backup this seems very viable to me.
I'm certain that a Togedemaru/Mega Gyarados would be viable, for many of the reasons you stated, however it's a somewhat old strategy. I remember seeing talk of that general core back in early/mid VGC 2017, and nowadays in USUM, with new toys like Clangorus Soulblaze and the more popular Tapus and UBs, even back in the original Sun/Moon, I can see why the appeal to using an "old" Pokemon like Gyarados is much lower than using the new stuff that came out.
However, I certainly think that the core has viability in the Battle Tree, especially with Togedemaru gaining Iron Head through USUM tutors, meaning that the lead has a better answer to Fairy types that wold otherwise dissuade Gyarados from Mega Evolving in front of them. As long as there's a reliable answer to Grass and opposing Sun teams, I could see the core getting somewhere around the middle of the leaderboard.
However, I certainly think that the core has viability in the Battle Tree, especially with Togedemaru gaining Iron Head through USUM tutors, meaning that the lead has a better answer to Fairy types that wold otherwise dissuade Gyarados from Mega Evolving in front of them. As long as there's a reliable answer to Grass and opposing Sun teams, I could see the core getting somewhere around the middle of the leaderboard.
I actually tried this recently, got to about 94 I think. I definitely played like shit though, and I could have had better backups (Lando-i/Latios). I'd say it could get pretty far, but Toge really wants HH and it needs to drop a STAB move for it which is really unfortunate, as it either hurts the matchup with Primarina and other waters or the matchup with other fairy types. And yeah you're right there are times to not go for DDance, but I usually found myself attempting to get 2 up in most battles.
Similar threads
- Sticky
