Battle Tree Discussion and Records

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I've updated the leaderboard through here. Sorry for my prolonged absence. After due reflection, I've decided *not* to add Burning Abyss's streak to the leaderboard. Too many legitimate doubts have been raised. I reiterate that this is not a court of law, and absolute 100% certainty is not required to omit a likely fraudulent streak. While I very much appreciate the careful review many of you provide for notable streaks that look suspicious, review that was certainly helpful here, let me remind everyone that we want to keep this thread as positive and sociable as possible, so please, even when critiquing a suspect streak, remember to minimize the personal attacks.

Best of luck with the streaks, all!
 
Note: I do not wish this to be added to the leaderboard, nor any randoms exploits henceforth, as they'll only create (in my opinion) dissatisfying clutter.

My most recent failed streak ended at 554 wins; while this was born from an attempt to break my previous record and maybe even hold onto second place for longer, Eisenherz was simultaneously having so much fun with his new forray into Randoms. I'll let him elaborate on that; regardless, I was being driven insane with withdrawl and couldn't wait to get back into it. In doing so I basically ensured that, sooner or later, I was going to sabotage all that prior success with Spidey & Friends; unfortunately, fate decided it'd be sooner.

However, the reason I'm even mentioning this publicly outside the Discord is because I managed, for the second time, to do 250 straight battles with my TR randoms format. Many, many failed runs fell between my last published streak and this one, so hanging on for so long felt like an accomplishment as great as the first time I'd done it. I believe a big part of that was drastically changing up my flunkies; not the movesets themselves but the way they're organized, which I'd like to illustrate a bit.

During my 1845 run, I drew from a pool of 60 TR abusers and had a couple dozen alts with more limited means of selection. All of the alts are flawed in some significant manner, and many standard abusers have their own issues that can lend to a lot of wasted rolls if they're concentrated. So, I tried to shrink that pool of 60 to a mere 30, and do away with all of the alts. In choosing all of my preferred flunkies from the original sixty, I was left with somewhere beteen 44-49; to make it easier to narrow down, I then excluded everything with an excess of 49 speed (base 50.) I then removed some things with comparable coverage to another flunky while also being faster (off the top of my head, Armaldo and Beartic were axed this way.) This still left me with over thirty, so I made the difficult decision to axe a few things which hit their speed tiers with Iron Balls; the reasoning being, items which lended to healing, bulk or more firepower were generally going to be more useful than speed-halving items, especially when the users were still a little slower than their teammates under TR. Some pokes I could barely stand to part with included Primarina, Clawitzer, Chandelure, and Heatran.

My trimming resulted in this box, not including the setters and megas, which remained combined and intact:


With fewer available pokes, I also rolled half the amount: Two possible setters, two possible megas, and only four abusers. While the hold items repeated often, it generally didn't create issues. While this greatly increased the number of repeats, as expected, the intended trade-off was consistency. I believe I've achieved that, not coincidentally.

Not wanting to abandon my other pokes entirely, I gave myself the arbitrary milestone of 150 (100 wins if I were using S&F to reach 50) before "unlocking" the other boxes. From that point on I would use my original RNG layout.

My first attempt with this reduced cast relatively easily reached 154 wins before Ezra slaughtered me in a similarly one-sided fashion. My next attempt crashed and burned in the 60s, due to running a team with no easy means of quickly dealing with Ferrothorn4- at least not while its teammates still posed a threat (entirely my fault as I've been consciously making sure I run coverage specifically to deal with that thing... ...rolls permitting.)

I vowed to be less careless (for the time being) and the third time managed to do the entire 250, bringing the streak to 300 total. I would use Spidey & Friends until 520, at which point Eisen had hopelessly overdosed on his own Randoms, and the contact high was enough to fuck my streak. Thanks, friend. I would manage only three more teams before Erix (sunlight) ran a squad perfectly oriented to murder mine.
Battles 1-50 were done with Spidey & Friends. At 150, my self-proclaimed "Super Factory" was unlocked and I began accommodating the other pokes.








This Araquanid is not the frontrunner for Spidey & Friends; it uses Soak and Entrainment, and Waterium Z (while Z-Liquidation is wholly inferior with instruct, Helping Hand makes the crystal a very useful hold item.) Soak was used a couple of times to murder bulky foes with Double-Edge. Entrainment's best use was on Slowking, who (as those familiar with my flunkies know) holds Choice Specs; locked into Scald, it was used to destroy a Registeel who had set up and would have taken much longer to whittle down without.


Strength Sap and Moonblast are enough to make Vileplume welcome amongst my other flunkies. Special-attacking Grass-typed TR abusers aren't that common, anyway.


Vikavolt is on a short list of Pokemon I was interested in encountering a lot more often with a reduced pool. I really enjoy using it.






Alright, I remember this run getting off to a pretty rough start. My pool was loaded with Ghost weaknesses and not enough heavy firepower outside that type. I ended up giving the rarely seen Weakness Policy Bronzong a go, which actually did me some good. Running Harry in the back was also something I never did before, but having that Fake Out as a late-game clutch saved my ass a few times.

The biggest change was realizing that, depending on the team, no-attacks Cofagrigus was just not pulling enough weight. The AI wasn't playing into Destiny Bond when I needed it, so after three or four battles I'd quit and replaced Ally Switch with Shadow Ball, which, believe me, made a world of difference. Even with no investment, it was a sizeable chunk of damage and good for more than the 50 Night Shade could inflict on a lot of targets.

Fully offensive Mega Slowbro did so much of the work that I was taken aback (even with all the grief Slowbro4 is able to give other players) and would strongly contemplate using it in that role whenever it was drawn. Until now, something about it just... made it stand out a lot less than other megas of mine (especially Camerupt and Mawile) but that movepool with 252+ was just eating everything that mattered. It was also faster than everything that mattered. Call me a repeat customer.


After the success of Musharna x Heracross, I would be much more willing to use faster, unwieldy megas if After You were a thing. It's usually pretty effective.

Super Factory Unlocked! Get Those Shitmons Ready!


During the batches of failed runs, I had become very enthused to run FWG cores, which frequently enjoyed smooth victories. While those cores had not contained Parasect, Eisen was active in the Discord when this team was rolled and I succumbed to peer pressure. Actually, given the rest of the team, Parasect was fairly useful! I remember Kikujiro managing to give this team a lot of shit, largely in part due to Togedemaru2 setting Electric Terrain. Snorlax was also unable to sweep the entire team due to succumbing to paralysis.










Muk copied Huge Power a few times during this run, though Mawile usually didn't leave much behind to slay. The novelty still felt great.






Completely unexpected MVP (to borrow Eisenherz terminology) in Nidoqueen foregoing the normally much safer Iron Ball for Life Orb. Not often outsped to harmful effect during the run, Queenie was ripping things apart and carrying the team on several occasions, in no small part due to her bulk and useful resistances. Considering she remains in the alts box for nostalgia more than anything else, I was so impressed. (All right, to be fair, Queenie was a pretty dominant force during Maison Triples and will likely regain a lot of status if that returns.)


Helping Hand and Gravity especially murderous for this team. Soak came in use again (Entrainment temporarily dropped for Protect) for Tangrowth's benefit.


I recall making a big deal of Dragonite soloing a female office worker by itself with little other than Gravity (and of course TR) in effect. Say what you will about Iron Tail; it OHKOs Mega Gardevoir.




I recall Roserade making really short work of a Sun team, and took particular delight in nailing RotoHeat with HP Ground under Gravity.





Now at 300 wins, Spidey & Friends took over until Battle 531.


I normally run Wide Lens on Chesnaught, but having Soak Araquanid still kept the Life Orb available and I thought I could use the much-needed increase in firepower. It ended up paying off, as both it and HH were cleanly demolishing most frontlines and giving Golem free reign to abuse anything which couldn't resist Electric. Audino pairs pretty well with Chesnaught also.


As with Cofagrigus, I stopped a few battles in to replace Ally Switch (at least temporarily) with Pain Split. I was too reluctant to use Memento, as it was making such good use of Helping Hand in the meantime and I didn't want my backline to find themselves in situations where the added boost could be missed. Like Cress, Uxie doesn't die quickly.


I was perhaps a bit too eager to run Shiinotic, as Eisen had a really fun-looking run with it early on during his randoms. While Shiinotic was still useful, it added a Fire weakness and gave Erix (battle 555) an easier time in demolishing me. Leading Zard-Y made it so Slowbro couldn't do anywhere near enough damage to dismantle the team quickly enough. This battle stood out for how quickly I was put into checkmate while still setting TR unhindered.
While I don't really expect anyone to read through that, I would've been annoyed with myself for bothering to chronicle all those teams only to delete the entire set without mentioning it. Well, that, and I was still pretty happy to pull the 250 off a second time. I'm in the middle of another fairly decent randoms expedition and, while I'm not far past 100 wins, I plan to keep it entirely to Factory rules without letting Spidey & Friends coast for hundreds of battles. Here's hoping my success continues with that.

I still haven't recorded the videos from my Monotype TR challenge... or the challenges before that <_<
 
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Thanks for adding me to the leaderboard NoCheese
My current streak is coming along nicely. I saved my game at battle 60 for the night, and I've already had a scary match which was decided in a literal coin toss. battle code below.

Battle 54: CA7G-WWWW-WWWT-T85E
I had a game shortly after defeating Red where I got lead Mismagius. So I think to myself. "I bet it's the one with Perish Song."
I switch to my Mimikyu with Red Card. It uses Protect. Fails. I go for Taunt and it Power Gem's me. (Yep that's the perish song moveset alright).
Red Card activates and the second pokemon is Espeon. And i'm like... OMG! I don't have Red Card any more to get rid of this thing.
I use Thief on Espeon (expecting it to have magic bounce) and steal Expert Belt, but i'm 2 shotted by Shadow Ball. Still have no clue what ability it has. Maybe should of scouted with Thunder Wave. At least if it was synchronise it would be paralysed. oh well.

My Durant comes out and i'm sweating like mad here... do I Entrainment with a 50% magic bounce chance. or do i x scissor and somehow find a way through the perish song Mismagius when it comes out again.

... I close my eyes. Hit Entrainment. And I hear the "BOING BOING BOING BOING CHING" sound.
I'm screaming YESSSSS!!!! In my my best M Bison meme impression. I got the Synchronise Espeon!!!
I'm then free to switch out and set up with my Venomoth and sweep the game. Not sure how the match would of gone if it was a magic bounce Espeon.
 
It's better than a coin flip in your favor there. Espeon only has a 33% chance of Magic Bounce: there are three ability slots that all have equal chance to appear, even if two slots are assigned the same ability (Synchronize).
 
Thanks for adding me to the leaderboard NoCheese
My current streak is coming along nicely. I saved my game at battle 60 for the night, and I've already had a scary match which was decided in a literal coin toss. battle code below.

Battle 54: CA7G-WWWW-WWWT-T85E
I had a game shortly after defeating Red where I got lead Mismagius. So I think to myself. "I bet it's the one with Perish Song."
I switch to my Mimikyu with Red Card. It uses Protect. Fails. I go for Taunt and it Power Gem's me. (Yep that's the perish song moveset alright).
Red Card activates and the second pokemon is Espeon. And i'm like... OMG! I don't have Red Card any more to get rid of this thing.
I use Thief on Espeon (expecting it to have magic bounce) and steal Expert Belt, but i'm 2 shotted by Shadow Ball. Still have no clue what ability it has. Maybe should of scouted with Thunder Wave. At least if it was synchronise it would be paralysed. oh well.

My Durant comes out and i'm sweating like mad here... do I Entrainment with a 50% magic bounce chance. or do i x scissor and somehow find a way through the perish song Mismagius when it comes out again.

... I close my eyes. Hit Entrainment. And I hear the "BOING BOING BOING BOING CHING" sound.
I'm screaming YESSSSS!!!! In my my best M Bison meme impression. I got the Synchronise Espeon!!!
I'm then free to switch out and set up with my Venomoth and sweep the game. Not sure how the match would of gone if it was a magic bounce Espeon.
The right thing to do would have been to switch to Durant immediately and KO Espeon, and then you have a full health Mimikyu to switch in to whatever comes out next.
 
The right thing to do would have been to switch to Durant immediately and KO Espeon, and then you have a full health Mimikyu to switch in to whatever comes out next.
So after Mimikyu red cards out the mismagius and I see espeon, I immediately switch back to Durant. X-scissor, then switch back to Mimikyu. ok cool thanks. i'm glad you replied to my post.

Just double checking the damage calculation as well for Espeon using Shadow Ball on the switch in.
252 SpA Espeon set 4 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Durant on a critical hit: 122-144 (73.9 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Espeon set 3 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Durant on a critical hit: 133-157 (80.6 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Durant survives both Espeon's using a critical hit Shadow Ball! Unbelievable.

I thought this would be one of those "what if I red card out a worse Pokemon" out situations.

It's better than a coin flip in your favor there. Espeon only has a 33% chance of Magic Bounce: there are three ability slots that all have equal chance to appear, even if two slots are assigned the same ability (Synchronize).
I took a huge gamble here. But luckily it paid off for me. I thought Pokemon with 1 normal ability and 1 hidden ability had their abilities at a 50% ratio.
But according to SadisticMystic here if a Pokemon has no second ability, but they have a hidden ability then then first ability copies to the second ability slot as well. and all 3 slots have a 33.33% chance of showing, with odds favouring the 66.66% chance of the normal ability. This is good information for later runs past 100.
While this does leave me hopeful that it "MIGHT" work in the future. I will never risk something like this past a 200 streak. It's nerve wrecking to say the least.
 
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Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
While the majority of the community here has been plugging away at the most recent games, I myself have been leaving USUM to the side, denying me the chance to see what Angency and the Ultra Tree is all about. Playing through the game has always seemed like a lot of work to me, so I wasn't bothering with it...until last month, when I summoned up a lot of work ethic and plowed through the in-game. I finally have been able to try Ultra Moon's facilities out over the past couple of weeks; the combined -Snorlax-/Deynon work recently published, on top of the Discord crew launching an all-out siege on all facilities other than Crystal Tower, has motivated me to ramble about my initial impressions of these places. And so...

Agency
- Current Rank 26
- The level scaling system has been a blessing for me to this point, as I'm not a Singles player and find that smashing lower-level opponents in small chunks of three battles takes some of the tedium out. Probably the most fun I've had playing Singles since one of the Gen VI online competitions (I forget which one)
- while cripple-and-setup, which propels the Singles savants here to untold heights, still works fine here, it can be mitigated, even with the level gap if you prepare right, by the stupid early sets that seem to have bizarrely efficient strategies for dealing with that; while I have had one of the best setup rentals known to this point, I have been reminded that, just like in traditional facilities, random stuff like Exploud1 or the various Psych Up users can poop all over the party. (this run so far is probably the most dangerous Sylveon2 has ever been to me.)
- highlights for things rented so far: Snorlax2, Camerupt3, Crobat3, Ribombee4, Terrakion1, Scizor4, Salamence4. The one lowlight has been the disappointing Trevenant3
- I have imagined a bizarre sort of camaraderie with the two fellows who have provided their rentals to me for the bulk of this run, even though it's obviously not them playing. It has cut down on the Singles tedium further and given me a tiny glimpse into a future with online non-local facilities Multis, however that ends up transpiring...
- speaking of which, there is no way any of this happens without the help of two fellow facilities Trainers and their charges:


"MysticCune" (Suicune1) (Lvl.100) (thanks to SadisticMystic)

The Anti-Sora to every battle facility Trainer's Bold Suicune. The setup sweeper.



"MaxLat" (Latios2) (Lvl.100) (thanks to Max. Optimizer)

The cleanup hitter, my go-to for most battles so far, would lead if I could make it so.

So yeah, find your Rank 50 Agency buddies if you have any, it makes this awesome even in the early stages. I can't wait to explore the upper reaches of this place with this crew...

Tree
- I was initially determined to play through the Basic Tree lines with fair teams, but became annoyed when my first attempt through Singles was stopped by some nonsense with bad matchups happening of Battle 15, being ended by Darmanitan1 (with a team that I don't remember now). So, I just grabbed my mid-eighties in-game team and plowed through Singles with Typhlosion/Granbull/Skarmory
- with that out of the way, the fun stuff could begin. I went to Basic Multis and crushed it with Lillie (at the insistence of several people on the Discord who exerted Pressure on me). I used MegaDrill & Landorus-T from: https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/usum/BT-AFB7-41CC ('Beedrill Team')
- finally, to round things out, I went TOTAL INTIMIDATION through Basic Doubles with Arcanine/Hitmontop/MegaMence/Granbull from: https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/usum/BT-FBAC-4F9E (fun factoid: I didn't notice Arcanine was at Lvl.100 until Battle 11)
- with all super formats unlocked, I have begun my Super Doubles Ultra Moon romps in earnest. I am going to be accumulating BP with the purpose of collecting specific categories of replays for research and fun:
Moon-exclusive Trainer Battles (check)
Kukui Battles
Double TR setter leads (check)
Double Z-Stone holders
Post-30 lead Oricorios
- in the process of doing this, I have gone on one run so far, making it to 157 wins. The First 10 were done using a different member of the QR-UNO for each battle, just to test various things out, along with using the above TOTAL INTIMIDATION team in Battle 6. The crew used:
'FEAR the Frog'
'Wall Boy Strikes Again'
'PheroLele V3: Click Buttons'
'My variation of Japan sand'
'All Hail Kommo-O'
'Focused Balzing Souls'
'White CHALK'
'Floral Kisses'
'Team LC' (for my first Guzma Battle)
- I then stuck with 'All Hail Kommo-O' for battles 11-20; the remainder of the streak was done using a secret new team that is currently carrying one of our regulars here to a new personal best (by like, a lot). I won't reveal the team and let his work speak for itself when the time comes, but if you are on the Discord, or pay enough attention to certain posts on this very thread, it's not much of a secret at all...the team itself is probably the most intuitive I have ever played in the Tree and is likely something I'll more shots to in the future. Once said creator reveals his finished work, I'll vouch for its effectiveness and publish proof and such
- I have been simultaneously attacking Sun Tree Doubles, Maison Triples, and dabbled a little in Subway Doubles at the same time as this streak. It's nice to be able to bounce between various teams, so you never get bored with any one team, should you be determined to make a significant enough streak with any of them. Said teams will be revealed when the time comes.

Thanks to everyone for continuing their good work, and particularly to Unbreakable on the Discord for giving me the kick in the ass needed to finally give Ultra Moon a go.
 
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Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
With my recent streak loss, I decided to look into the I've done a few tests regarding double Trick Room leads, to try and find any consistencies with who sets Trick Room in these scenarios. I've tried two tests, mostly cause I got a little bit bored with testing, and I'm not really sure what else to test at this point, besides more examples.

Both tests were against Scientist Robyn, with the lead of Carbink3 and Oranguru3. In all test battles, I used only Protect in order to not influence the AI as much as possible through damage dealt by me.

In the first test, I wanted to test the idea of having something slower than one of the Trick Room setters, but faster than the other, a problem I've faced with Charjabug on my team and I'm not fully sure with how to fix or deal with this scenario. Specifically, Carbink3 was the Trick Room user that I felt my team had the biggest issue with, which is why I chose this pair for testing. Prior to the test, I always thought that the slower Trick Room user would be the only one that would set Trick Room, as the AI wouldn't see the faster Pokemon as needing Trick Room to outspeed at least something on the player's team.

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 10 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Icy Wind
- Protect

Charjabug @ Eviolite
Ability: Battery
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 124 Def / 132 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 28 SpA
- String Shot
- Substitute
- X-Scissor
- Protect

Speed Order: Gengar (178), Oranguru (72), Charjabug (37), Carbink (31)
Only logged Turn 1 unless otherwise stated

1. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
2. TR/Psychic into Gengar
3. TR/Psychic into Gengar
4. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
5. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar
6. TR/Psychic into Gengar
7. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar
8. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
9. TR/Psychic into Gengar
10. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
11. TR/Psychic into Gengar
12. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar T2: TR/Psychic into Gengar
13. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar T2: TR/Psychic into Gengar
14. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
15. TR/Psychic into Gengar
16. TR/Psychic into Gengar
17. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
18. TR/Psychic into Gengar
19. TR/Psychic into Gengar
20. TR/Psychic into Gengar
21. TR/Psychic into Gengar
22. TR/Psychic into Gengar
23. TR/Psychic into Gengar
24. TR/Psychic into Gengar
25. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
26. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
27. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
28. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar T2: TR/Psychic into Gengar
29. TR/Psychic into Gengar
30. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar T2: Power Gem into Charjabug/TR

Results:
TR/Psychic into Gengar: 15 times
Power Gem into Charjabug/TR: 9
Double Attack: 6

About half the time, my statement above held true, with the Pokemon slower than Charjabug setting up Trick Room, as expected. However, a good amount of the time, the AI did have the faster Oranguru set Trick Room instead, so I don't see any immediate conclusions with this. A few times though, the AI did choose to not set Trick Room the first turn, and after seeing it twice, I wanted to see what would happen the following turn, again using double Protect to see what happens. Every time, Trick Room did come up, and a majority of the time, it followed the statement that I had said prior to my test.

The second test I had was to see who would set up Trick Room with both of the player's Pokemon faster than both of the opposing Trick Room setters. This is probably the more likely scenario for most people trying to go through the Battle Tree, as very few people I've seen will specifically lead one fast Pokemon and one slow Pokemon for the Battle Tree, unless their team is specifically slow like other Trick Room teams. This time, I had no idea what to expect and just went in blind, trying to see any sort of pattern.

Pelipper @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Tailwind
- Protect

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Def
- Fake Out
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Speed Order: Pikachu (142), Pelipper (117), Oranguru (72), Carbink (31)
Only logged Turn 1 unless otherwise stated

1. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
2. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
3. Power Gem/TR (Likely Pelipper, but missed message)
4. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
5. TR/Psychic (Missed message)
6. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
7. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
8. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
9. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
10. TR/Psychic (Missed message)
11. TR/Psychic (Missed message)
12. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
13. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
14. Power Gem into Pikachu/TR
15. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
16. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
17. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
18. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
19. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
20. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
21. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
22. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
23. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
24. Dazzling Gleam/TR
25. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
26. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
27. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
28. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
29. Dazzling Gleam/TR
30. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR

Results:
Carbink setting Trick Room: 18
Oranguru setting Trick Room: 12

There seemed to be no consistency with who would set up Trick Room in this scenario, with both Trick Room setters setting up Trick Room about an even amount of times. However, Carbink set it up a few more times, and my only theory regarding this is that Oranguru had a potential KO onto Pikachu, which is why it wasn't the one to set up Trick Room. More testing would be needed before this can be in any way confirmed as normal, though based on these results, there won't really be any sort of standard behavior.

While more testing will be needed, something I don't know if I will do myself, these two tests resulted in me coming up with a few theories regarding AI behavior when they have two Trick Room users active at once, and Trick Room not being up.

If the Trick Room setters are faster than your slowest Pokemon, they won't set Trick Room.

This is the statement I first heard from Worldie, when I was trying to improve my Gengar/Charjabug team and voicing out random thoughts on Discord. It's also mentioned in Smuckem's post right above me regarding the issue of double Trick Room setter leads. Worldie told me that his Gigalith indirectly prevented Trick Room from the AI, and after a little bit of adjustment on my team, I found this statement to be true in my experiences, in the Charjabug team, my Z-Snatch team, with a Level 1 Riolu, and my own Trick Room team. This is the only statement here that is borderline fact, and one that I would completely support.

The one that can do the most damage won't set Trick Room.

I've sometimes considered this to be the reasoning for who sets up Trick Room, as often times I see Gengar taken out really early in the battle or Audino4 goes for a Z-Fire Blast into Charjabug. While those two scenarios are usually only in the case of there being one Trick Room setter in the lead, the logic applies to my test, as both times the most damaging option, Psychic from Oranguru3 onto Gengar or Pikachu, a guaranteed OHKO on the former and a chance to KO on the latter, supports this statement. I want to try out some Rock-weak lead in against this pair in the future, to see if Oranguru3 becomes the one to set Trick Room more often because the AI would want to hit the Rock-weak Pokemon with a Power Gem from Carbink3.

The slower one will set Trick Room.

This is the statement that I have always thought was true, up until I decided to test it recently, only to find it somewhat false. While it can be true, based on my tests above, I believe that it is based other factors as well, such as the second statement I've said. This is the one I'm most unsure of, and I honestly believe this might be proven to be false with a little more testing.

As of right now, I can do these same tests onto a few other lead pairs that I currently have a Battle Video recorded for, but this would take a lot of time and effort from me. I probably will get around to them eventually, but I honestly want to improve the teams I have at the moment, or move further along the Battle Tree, maybe up to 200. But, I could put some tests on a bit of priority, if other people are interested, and I have time to do them.

Cofagrigus3/Slowbro4
Carbink3/Oranguru3
Cofagrigus3/Carbink3
Audino4/Musharna2
Cofagrigus3/Jellicent3
Aromatisse4/Dusknoir4

And if anyone is curious on the speeds of Trick Room setters, to try and make whatever lead they are using slower than the Trick Room setters, I made a list of speed tiers before that can be helpful in finding empty speed tiers regarding Trick Room users. Keep in mind this ignores opposing Trick Room abusers and such, in which case you should refer to the main list of speed tiers.

TR Setters

Jellicent3 - 72
Oranguru3 - 72
Audino4 - 70
Dusknoir4 - 58
Bronzong1 - 53
Gourgeist2 - 52
Slowking1 - 50
Cofagrigus3 - 50
Musharna2 - 49
Bronzong4 - 47
Cresselia4 - 47
Reuniclus2 - 45
Slowbro4 - 45
Slowking4 - 45
Aromatisse4 - 44
Trevenant4 - 34
Carbink3 - 31
Dusknoir2 - 29

There's also one more AI behavior I'd like to learn about, which is Earthquake and other spread move usage. For me, I mainly want to know about Earthquake, if anyone knows anything. It's basically already known that the AI will use spread moves when their partner is immune to that move, such as Earthquake next to a Flying type, but I'm more curious about instances when the partner isn't immune to it. I've seen several battles where the AI went straight for an Earthquake, despite hitting their ally for a decent chunk of health, just so they could KO my Gengar or Pikachu, depending on what team I'm using. It's really inconsistent and I honestly have no idea how I can test this, or even figure things out. If someone knows anything, please let me know, as it would help me and probably a few other people here as well.
I decided to follow up on this using my current runs in Ultra Moon as an example. So, I went and captured a sample battle featuring Trevenent4/Dusknoir4 as leads; if anyone wants to play around with it themselves, they're free to check out:
WUKG-WWWW-WWWU-4VBV (vs. Tivon, Trevenant4/Dusknoir4/Carbink4/Conkeldurr3) -- this particular team I'm using actually could have been able to more carefully survive the TR period, and fairly easily. However, the random targeting by Trevenant and the unexpected targeting by Conkeldurr made this tighter than it needed to be. At least I made the proper opening play...

With this in hand, I decided to carry out some tests, a using a small number of random captures, Imperfects, and one of my finer creations to try and dissect the TR behavioral patterns of these opponents.

Test #1: One Lead Slower, One Lead Faster (FEAR Variant)

I replayed this ten times with the Lvl.14 in-game trade Noibat and ten more with a Lvl.4 Buneary I randomly caught during my in-game playthrough. Each of these were accompanied by:

'Hurrrrrrrrrr' (Tornadus) (M) (Lvl.100) @ Life Orb (thanks to SadisticMystic)
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Timid
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hurricane

In all cases, both opponents attacked, never bothering with TR; while Dusknoir tended to go Never-Ending Nightmare, twice it simply went with Shadow Sneak; Trevenant always went Shadow Ball with Noibat and Focus Blast on Buneary. It seems that baitmons could still work to deal TR setting for as long as the bait's there, at least.

Test #2: Both Leads Faster

For the next set of tests, I brought in two Psychic-types, curious to see if the defensive typing would be enough to perhaps dissuade TR usage:

Cerebus'Bite (Azelf) (Lvl.100) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt


Jalal'sMane (Mesprit) (Lvl.100) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 6 Spe
- Psychic
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Protect

However, there's no question that gaining the speed advantage is still a big priority for the AI, as TR was set every time:
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant

When not setting, Dusknoir always used Pain Split and Trevenant always used Shadow Ball, although both were pretty random about who they targeted in these cases. Note that setting duty was evenly split between the two in this set of instances; though this sample size is way too small to start making grand statements with, is it possible that the AI legitimately selects who sets based on some coin flip command?

Test #3: Both Leads Slower, More or Less

To add some nuance, I next brought in two TRmons; intentionally brought in to underspeed Dusknoir4 (58 Spe) and to partly underspeed Trevenant4 (34 Spe):


EliteBell (Bronzong) (Lvl.50) @ Iron Ball
Ability: Heatproof
Nature: Brave
IVs: 31/31/31/0/31/0 (34 Spe)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
- Trick Room
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Explosion


'Hiiragi' (Golisopod) (F) (Lvl.51) @ Muscle Band (thanks to ReptoAbysmal)
Ability: Emergency Exit
Nature: Brave
40 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SDef
- First Impression
- Aqua Jet
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide

The AI never bothered to set TR here either: as has been reported by others on here, EliteBell underspeeding both opponents, or perhaps Trevenant seeing that it could commit major damage to EliteBell (though even with a crit, it's a guaranteed 2HKO with Shadow Ball) was sufficient to dissuade setting, even though Hiiragi outspeeds Trevenant4. I was curious to see what a speed tie would do to change things, so I did ten replays under these settings and ten with the Bell's Iron Ball removed (without the Ball, it ties with Trev4). This did not change things: Dusknoir went for Pain Split, Trevenant went mostly for Shadow Ball (although random targeting on both leads) and Energy Ball on Golisopod four-five times. So, the "slowest Pokemon prevents TR" theory Worldie and PikaCuber have postulated has more data supporting it here. It also provides more evidence that individual setters only take account for their own speed matchups with the opponents and not their ally's.

Test #4: One Lead Slower, One Lead Faster (Standard Variant)

To see if the above theory could apply when one of the leads used was clearly faster than both opposing setters, EliteBell and Hurrrrrrrr were both brought back for a final set of twenty replays. The slower EliteBell totally neutered setting once again: Trevenant did nothing but Shadow Ball random targets once again, Dusknoir either Pain Split random targets, went for Never-Ending Nightmare three-four times (mostly on EliteBell, but once on Hurrrrrrrr), and bizarrely went for Z-Destiny Bond once.

Based on what I have seen here, the secret sauce to stopping the TR overall, although obviously being more vital in the case of double setters, is simply to bring along one sufficiently slow, puny baitmon or one slow, fat fuck of a bulkymon. You don't even need to run TR! (not that I dissuade you from doing so.)
 
I'm glad you were able to test that my theory is pretty much correct.

If you're particularly bored, you could check the part 2 of my theory as well. I'd do it myself but I have basically benched both my DS by now as I accepted I'm terrible at tree and will wait gen 8 to attempt again most likely.
It would be "If TR is up and you are slower than enemy, AI will attempt to revert it next turn". You happened to find a relatively low danger double TR setter, so getting TR up turn 1 should be pretty easy as neither can realistically Hax both your leads, expecially if you go by with a Scrappy Fake out of sort.

I'm mostly curious if this would be a consistent behavior, or a "possible but erratic" one, as we've all definitely seen it happen a few times.
 
I decided to follow up on this using my current runs in Ultra Moon as an example. So, I went and captured a sample battle featuring Trevenent4/Dusknoir4 as leads; if anyone wants to play around with it themselves, they're free to check out:
WUKG-WWWW-WWWU-4VBV (vs. Tivon, Trevenant4/Dusknoir4/Carbink4/Conkeldurr3) -- this particular team I'm using actually could have been able to more carefully survive the TR period, and fairly easily. However, the random targeting by Trevenant and the unexpected targeting by Conkeldurr made this tighter than it needed to be. At least I made the proper opening play...

With this in hand, I decided to carry out some tests, a using a small number of random captures, Imperfects, and one of my finer creations to try and dissect the TR behavioral patterns of these opponents.

Test #1: One Lead Slower, One Lead Faster (FEAR Variant)

I replayed this ten times with the Lvl.14 in-game trade Noibat and ten more with a Lvl.4 Buneary I randomly caught during my in-game playthrough. Each of these were accompanied by:

'Hurrrrrrrrrr' (Tornadus) (M) (Lvl.100) @ Life Orb (thanks to SadisticMystic)
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Timid
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hurricane

In all cases, both opponents attacked, never bothering with TR; while Dusknoir tended to go Never-Ending Nightmare, twice it simply went with Shadow Sneak; Trevenant always went Shadow Ball with Noibat and Focus Blast on Buneary. It seems that baitmons could still work to deal TR setting for as long as the bait's there, at least.

Test #2: Both Leads Faster

For the next set of tests, I brought in two Psychic-types, curious to see if the defensive typing would be enough to perhaps dissuade TR usage:

Cerebus'Bite (Azelf) (Lvl.100) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt


Jalal'sMane (Mesprit) (Lvl.100) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 6 Spe
- Psychic
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Protect

However, there's no question that gaining the speed advantage is still a big priority for the AI, as TR was set every time:
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant

When not setting, Dusknoir always used Pain Split and Trevenant always used Shadow Ball, although both were pretty random about who they targeted in these cases. Note that setting duty was evenly split between the two in this set of instances; though this sample size is way too small to start making grand statements with, is it possible that the AI legitimately selects who sets based on some coin flip command?

Test #3: Both Leads Slower, More or Less

To add some nuance, I next brought in two TRmons; intentionally brought in to underspeed Dusknoir4 (58 Spe) and to partly underspeed Trevenant4 (34 Spe):


EliteBell (Bronzong) (Lvl.50) @ Iron Ball
Ability: Heatproof
Nature: Brave
IVs: 31/31/31/0/31/0 (34 Spe)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
- Trick Room
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Explosion


'Hiiragi' (Golisopod) (F) (Lvl.51) @ Muscle Band (thanks to ReptoAbysmal)
Ability: Emergency Exit
Nature: Brave
40 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SDef
- First Impression
- Aqua Jet
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide

The AI never bothered to set TR here either: as has been reported by others on here, EliteBell underspeeding both opponents, or perhaps Trevenant seeing that it could commit major damage to EliteBell (though even with a crit, it's a guaranteed 2HKO with Shadow Ball) was sufficient to dissuade setting, even though Hiiragi outspeeds Trevenant4. I was curious to see what a speed tie would do to change things, so I did ten replays under these settings and ten with the Bell's Iron Ball removed (without the Ball, it ties with Trev4). This did not change things: Dusknoir went for Pain Split, Trevenant went mostly for Shadow Ball (although random targeting on both leads) and Energy Ball on Golisopod four-five times. So, the "slowest Pokemon prevents TR" theory Worldie and PikaCuber have postulated has more data supporting it here. It also provides more evidence that individual setters only take account for their own speed matchups with the opponents and not their ally's.

Test #4: One Lead Slower, One Lead Faster (Standard Variant)

To see if the above theory could apply when one of the leads used was clearly faster than both opposing setters, EliteBell and Hurrrrrrrr were both brought back for a final set of twenty replays. The slower EliteBell totally neutered setting once again: Trevenant did nothing but Shadow Ball random targets once again, Dusknoir either Pain Split random targets, went for Never-Ending Nightmare three-four times (mostly on EliteBell, but once on Hurrrrrrrr), and bizarrely went for Z-Destiny Bond once.

Based on what I have seen here, the secret sauce to stopping the TR overall, although obviously being more vital in the case of double setters, is simply to bring along one sufficiently slow, puny baitmon or one slow, fat fuck of a bulkymon. You don't even need to run TR! (not that I dissuade you from doing so.)
Looking at this, I wonder if what you lead influences who would set Trick Room, specifically like you had in your second test. If you had two different leads, with different super effective targets, would there be a consistent pattern in who would set Trick Room. Cause when I tested it out with 2 leads faster than both Trick Room setters, I didn't get quite as even of a split as you did, which may mean there is a slight bias, maybe a weighted coin flip. So something like a Dragon type and a Normal type against Aromatisse and Dusknoir, or something like that. Basically, one setter has a super effective target on only one of your Pokemon, the other has no super effective moves against either leads. I would think that Dusknoir would be more likely to set up Trick Room in that scenario, but that's just a theory, and I don't have the time to test that out this week.

Though that still leaves the awkward scenario where one lead is faster than both Trick Room setters, while the other sits in the middle, speed wise, between the two setters. Really weird still that I saw some scenarios where the AI didn't set up Trick Room until Turn 2. But, your post does help clarify some of my thoughts, good to see that my work towards getting a new Charjabug wasn't fully in vain.
 

Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
Worldie PikaCuber the cool thing about it is that, with the Bronzong/Golisopod in place, I can test both things out relatively easily; I just need a good chunk of time to test the resetting TR scenario out (it took me about two-and-a-half hours yesterday to compile this data) and the appropriate partner for the awkward test (but hey, I have this Speed Boost Scolipede based off of Boss Trainer Carlen's Scoli for reasons).

So yes, I will explore both questions in due time. You two just continue being lazy/busy.
 

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
Orange Islands
Okay, so I guess I should finally post here.

I've been working on trying to get Shuckle to 50 wins in Super Doubles. You may think I am crazy, and at this point I am feeling like I am too.

The first attempt at the team was probably very flukey. I threw some mons together I had and a Battle Spot Shuckle from Theorymon which I had bred for him. Shuckle/Gyarados/Magneton/Mega Heracross. I was using webs/rock tomb from Shuckle in order to speed control opponents and give space for Gyarados and Heracross to do work. I needed a Flying/Electric resist, so Eviolite Magneton popped into the back line. Obvious issue here was speed, so I tended to struggle with the first two mons on the field (especially with fast electrics), but ground them down most of the time. I managed to wobble my way up to 43 wins. I tried out a few other teams (and getting some more BP) before going back to Shuckle. I tried it out with mega Kangaskhan but that faltered around battle 20 to some haxy bullshit.

I started looking deeper into Shuckle's other options, and turskain mentioned it got String Shot. Over the gens, String Shot has gotten numerous buffs, now being a both opponent -2 speed debuff. There was one large problem here. Shuckle only gets String Shot from the HGSS Move Tutor pools. As it happened, I had like 21 bp from other streaks/play time. I grinded out the next 11BP I needed, grabbed the gift Shuckle from Cianwood and then proceeded to transfer it up. It stopped off in OR to Blissey Base train it up to 100 so I could bottle cap it when it finally reached Sun. I then needed to Ability Capsule it (luckily I had plenty of BP for all this now) to get Sturdy.

I was confident with the other members of the team. I got another Magneton, and evolved it. This gave me more special firepower (Magneton annoyingly missed a few KOs). I'm still not sure if Eviolite or normal Zone is bulkier though.

The new and improved team faltered at 39 wins after meeting with Sina. The team is below:


Shuckie (Shuckle) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
31/x/31/x/31/x (Triple Bottle Cap)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- String Shot
- Rock Tomb
- Sticky Web
- Power Split

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sturdy
31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: no idea rn, I think its max spcl attack/max speed
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Metal Sound

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts -> Skill Link
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Counter

I keep forgetting to get Bullet Seed on Mega Heracross (definitely will fix that for my next attempt) and I feel like I might try out something different (item wise) on Magnezone. I'm unlikely to spend the effort to breed for HP Ice/Grass so let's ignore that. General premise is Gyarados puts dents in something while Shuckle throws down a String Shot. If there is a scary Electric on the field, Gyarados swaps out to Magnezone (though I may be tempted to try out Raichu/other Volt Absorb or Lightning Rod etc in that slot to ignore electric completely). Magnezone also helps pressure Fairy types which can mess with Heracross badly.

Apparently Sina has ended more than her fair share of runs. Mine was purely one mistake and a lot of hax. Oranguru with Electrium Z means I was forced to switch out Gyarados for Magnezone. The incoming blizzard froze Magnezone while Shuckle Power Splitted. After Magnezone went down to Focus Blast, in came Mega Heracross. I felt like I could still win from this point... Sina made short work of that idea. I (for some reason) decided to Pin Missile Oranguru (whereas it should have gone into Abomasnow) which then got the dreaded double freeze. It was all over from then. Drampa came in along side Blizzard spam and that was all she wrote.

7M9G-WWWW-WWWU-6LW3 - Utter destruction in Pokemon form

Replay above. It took me two attempts to win the fight with the same team (the first attempt also got Magnezone frozen, but I power splitted Abomasnow to take its edge off). Drampa came in and wrecked shop in this match. The third attempt went super smoothly, no freeze, Abomasnow went down to Magnezone, Heracross came in and cleaned up.

Main threats at the moment are powerful/fast Electric types mostly and I can play around most others. Espeon can be troublesome, as well as other potent special attackers. Shuckle can only be really taken down by concentrated attacks, which causes the AI to misplay horribly more often than not. Rotom is always scary. All versions are a pain to get rid of. As it happens, freeze hax doesn't like me much either. Shuckle blocks the AI from setting up trick room the majority of the time (even though they would be quicker after String Shot/Sticky Webs). Power Split helps neutralize a lot of scary Pokemon. In one match I power Splitted Rhyperior and 3HKO'd its team mate Gyarados with Rock Tomb. Definitely an awesome move to help out my team.

T1 choices are always hard in doubles, but I am using Power Split on T1 more often now as opposed to going directly for the string shot. Both are awesome moves and the power boost Shuckle get's is usually very noticeable. I'm pretty hopeful this team is going to finally get me to 50. I've learnt a lot through this streak and I hope it will help me out in the future.
 
Okay, so I guess I should finally post here.

I've been working on trying to get Shuckle to 50 wins in Super Doubles. You may think I am crazy, and at this point I am feeling like I am too.

The first attempt at the team was probably very flukey. I threw some mons together I had and a Battle Spot Shuckle from Theorymon which I had bred for him. Shuckle/Gyarados/Magneton/Mega Heracross. I was using webs/rock tomb from Shuckle in order to speed control opponents and give space for Gyarados and Heracross to do work. I needed a Flying/Electric resist, so Eviolite Magneton popped into the back line. Obvious issue here was speed, so I tended to struggle with the first two mons on the field (especially with fast electrics), but ground them down most of the time. I managed to wobble my way up to 43 wins. I tried out a few other teams (and getting some more BP) before going back to Shuckle. I tried it out with mega Kangaskhan but that faltered around battle 20 to some haxy bullshit.

I started looking deeper into Shuckle's other options, and turskain mentioned it got String Shot. Over the gens, String Shot has gotten numerous buffs, now being a both opponent -2 speed debuff. There was one large problem here. Shuckle only gets String Shot from the HGSS Move Tutor pools. As it happened, I had like 21 bp from other streaks/play time. I grinded out the next 11BP I needed, grabbed the gift Shuckle from Cianwood and then proceeded to transfer it up. It stopped off in OR to Blissey Base train it up to 100 so I could bottle cap it when it finally reached Sun. I then needed to Ability Capsule it (luckily I had plenty of BP for all this now) to get Sturdy.

I was confident with the other members of the team. I got another Magneton, and evolved it. This gave me more special firepower (Magneton annoyingly missed a few KOs). I'm still not sure if Eviolite or normal Zone is bulkier though.

The new and improved team faltered at 39 wins after meeting with Sina. The team is below:


Shuckie (Shuckle) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
31/x/31/x/31/x (Triple Bottle Cap)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- String Shot
- Rock Tomb
- Sticky Web
- Power Split

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sturdy
31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: no idea rn, I think its max spcl attack/max speed
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Metal Sound

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts -> Skill Link
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Counter

I keep forgetting to get Bullet Seed on Mega Heracross (definitely will fix that for my next attempt) and I feel like I might try out something different (item wise) on Magnezone. I'm unlikely to spend the effort to breed for HP Ice/Grass so let's ignore that. General premise is Gyarados puts dents in something while Shuckle throws down a String Shot. If there is a scary Electric on the field, Gyarados swaps out to Magnezone (though I may be tempted to try out Raichu/other Volt Absorb or Lightning Rod etc in that slot to ignore electric completely). Magnezone also helps pressure Fairy types which can mess with Heracross badly.

Apparently Sina has ended more than her fair share of runs. Mine was purely one mistake and a lot of hax. Oranguru with Electrium Z means I was forced to switch out Gyarados for Magnezone. The incoming blizzard froze Magnezone while Shuckle Power Splitted. After Magnezone went down to Focus Blast, in came Mega Heracross. I felt like I could still win from this point... Sina made short work of that idea. I (for some reason) decided to Pin Missile Oranguru (whereas it should have gone into Abomasnow) which then got the dreaded double freeze. It was all over from then. Drampa came in along side Blizzard spam and that was all she wrote.

7M9G-WWWW-WWWU-6LW3 - Utter destruction in Pokemon form

Replay above. It took me two attempts to win the fight with the same team (the first attempt also got Magnezone frozen, but I power splitted Abomasnow to take its edge off). Drampa came in and wrecked shop in this match. The third attempt went super smoothly, no freeze, Abomasnow went down to Magnezone, Heracross came in and cleaned up.

Main threats at the moment are powerful/fast Electric types mostly and I can play around most others. Espeon can be troublesome, as well as other potent special attackers. Shuckle can only be really taken down by concentrated attacks, which causes the AI to misplay horribly more often than not. Rotom is always scary. All versions are a pain to get rid of. As it happens, freeze hax doesn't like me much either. Shuckle blocks the AI from setting up trick room the majority of the time (even though they would be quicker after String Shot/Sticky Webs). Power Split helps neutralize a lot of scary Pokemon. In one match I power Splitted Rhyperior and 3HKO'd its team mate Gyarados with Rock Tomb. Definitely an awesome move to help out my team.

T1 choices are always hard in doubles, but I am using Power Split on T1 more often now as opposed to going directly for the string shot. Both are awesome moves and the power boost Shuckle get's is usually very noticeable. I'm pretty hopeful this team is going to finally get me to 50. I've learnt a lot through this streak and I hope it will help me out in the future.
Nah, I don't think you're crazy. I believe you can make any Pkm work in Battle Tree.
Now, as for your team, I'd suggest to use Protect on some Pkm so that they don't have to take a hit at first before Shuckle reduces the Speed of faster opposing Pkm. Apropos Shuckle, I'm not really sure if it really needs Rock Tomb. You already have so much Speed control with Sticky Webs and String Shot. Instead of Rock Tomb you could use Toxic/Protect/Struggle Bug/Encore.
As for Heracross, I don't think Counter is that useful. It's very relient on your prediction, so I'd suggest Protect or Bullet Seed to deal with bulky Water or Ground Pkm.
Gyarados is fine, but you could replace Crunch with Protect or Earth Quake. Magnezone doesn't need Thunderwave as you have enough Speed control. Protect would be a good option.
 
Though not my best composition, this team brought me to 231 wins, 20 less than with Naganadel. (I need to find something that involves hyper offense soon)
But, it's still pretty decent, so I thought I could share it.

THE ROCK (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

My overview: Incineroar, though not the fastest Fake Out user, is very useful to use when paired with Latios, allowing it to take physical and special hits thanks to its Assault Vest. Fake Out also allows Latios to get off its nuke (Z-Move) for free. Flare Blitz is a great STAB move to use, however comes with the drawback of causing recoil damage. Knock Off is a good STAB move to use as well and provides great utility by knocking off items off of opponents. Finally, Low Kick is good to use for coverage options, however, I do not know what's better to use on Incineroar. 252 HP and 4 Def allows Incineroar to take hits better while an Adamant Nature and 252 Atk allows it to hit as hard as possible.

Counters:
Ground-types: Ground-types can carry Earthquake can really mess up Incineroar, however, some are not bulky enough to live a Devastating Drake from Latios. Those who can live a Devastating Drake, though, can use their STAB moves on Incineroar. Nidoqueen, Hippowdon, and Landorus are prime examples.

Water-types: Suicune, Slowbro, and Wishiwashi are bulky Water-types that can live a Knock Off and hit back with a strong Water-type attack, like Scald or Hydro Pump. Politoed, in particular, can set up the rain sometimes with its ability by random chance, Drizzle.

Latias (Latios) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

My overview: Like the name? Because I do. Latios is a strong attacker in Doubles and I feel like people really underestimate it. Especially that Devastating Drake powered up by a Draco Meteor. That really hurts. Psychic is a good STAB option to spam around to hit Fighting-types that Incineroar can't handle, like Terrakion. Thunderbolt is the coverage option that I chose because nothing particularly targets Water-type Pokemon. Protect is used because, well, it's Doubles, dammit. 252 SpA and 252 Spe, along with a Timid Nature is used to allow Latios to be super fast and hit very hard, while giving the rest of the EV Spread to SpD.

Counters:
Dark-types: Bisharp can Sucker Punch Latios to oblivion. Tyranitar and Weavile aren't Sucker Punchers, but they can easily prove to become a big problem. Dark-type coverage can also be a problem to deal with as well, like Dark Pulse Heatran. (Who TF runs that)

Trick Room: Speed is definitely one of Latios best traits, but it can also become its worst during Trick Room. Audino, Cofagrigus, and Reuniclus are notable Pokemon that can take a hit and set up Trick Room.

Fairy-types: Florges can easily eat a hit and strike back with Moonblast. Aromatisse is one Fairy-type in particular that can set up Trick Room.

Mega Gengar: Regular Gengar is okay to deal with but Mega Gengar is definitely one of the most threatening Pokemon to face despite being super frail. It especially becomes a problem once Incineroar is out of the picture, with Thunderbolt for Tapu Fini, and Shadow Ball for both Mega Metagross and Latios. And as if that wasn't enough, Destiny Bond, boi.

Mist (Tapu Fini) @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Moonblast
- Protect

My overview: Tapu Fini is definitely a very strange Fairy-type to use on this team but it works very well. Though Misty Terrain weakens Devastating Drake if Latios were to use it, it also prevents status conditions from being spurred upon the team. Muddy Water is a good spammable option to use to lower accuracy. Moonblast is that secondary STAB move to possibly lower the foe's Special Attack stat. Ice Beam is a good coverage move to use alongside Muddy Water and Moonblast and though it may seem strange to use, it hits Garchomp, Landorus, and other Dragons harder and also hits Amoonguss. Protect allows to scout and punish attackers into Tapu Fini's slot. A Calm Nature along with mixed defenses can allow Tapu Fini to take Electric-type attacks much better.

Counters:
Electric-types: Even if it can take one, that doesn't mean it can take a lot of them without taking massive damage. Zapdos, Thundurus, and Raikou are huge mentions. Raikou is the biggest problem to this team, as it has access to Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt and can boost with Calm Mind.

Grass-types: Amoonguss can be a pain to deal with and is the main Grass-type to watch out for. Others like Virizion, Mega Venusaur, and Rotom-M can really do a ton of damage to it with their super effective STAB options. Rotom-M can also paralyze it if its Misty Terrain is down.

Stomping Gigabyte (Metagross-Mega) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
- Ice Punch
- Protect

My overview: Mega Metagross is a ridiculously powerful Pokemon to use in Doubles, and fits the D/S/F core very well. A Jolly Nature with 252 EVs in both Atk and Spe allows Mega Metagross to be very fast and hit hard, while the rest of the EVs go into SpD, because I'm lazy. Iron Head is the best STAB move for Mega Metagross to use as it has a good chance to flinch an opponent. Stomping Tantrum, while not as powerful as Earthquake, gets a Tough Claws boost and Ice Punch is a good coverage option to have. Protect is there because it's f*cking Doubles.

Counters:
Ground-types: Man, the same problems as Incineroar. Just go to Incineroar's post.

Fire-types: Actually, speaking of Incineroar, that's one of the very few Pokemon that actually demolishes Mega Metagross to the ground. Entei, Moltres, Scarf Typhlosion and Mega Charizard X and Y can mess Mega Metagross up and break its coding.

Steel-types: Steel-types seem to wall Mega Metagross very well, like most Steel-type Megas, namely Mega Aggron and Mega Metagross. Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor also seem to do very well against it too.


LOSS: S8WW-WWWW-WWWU-8899
-----


Alright, that's it. Still, can someone recommend me some Hyper Offense Pokemon, that seems to be my best playstyle. I ain't a Brain, but I guess I'm a Brawn, I guess that's not a good thing. I dunno.
 
Alright, that's it. Still, can someone recommend me some Hyper Offense Pokemon, that seems to be my best playstyle. I ain't a Brain, but I guess I'm a Brawn, I guess that's not a good thing. I dunno.
As I said at the time, Rain possibly the easiest hyperoffense composition you can run really, aside from maybe pherolelegross core.

Koko, Pelipper, M-Swampert, X of your choice. You can even go full rain using stuff like Ludicolo in that place.

Otherwise you could try to run my ChariY+scarferuption comp but really it's prone to RNG very hard so unless you're me i don't recommend that.


p.s. personal favorite: ditch leftovers on fini and run wide lens Icy Wind. Be a real man.
 
As I said at the time, Rain possibly the easiest hyperoffense composition you can run really, aside from maybe pherolelegross core.

Koko, Pelipper, M-Swampert, X of your choice. You can even go full rain using stuff like Ludicolo in that place.

Otherwise you could try to run my ChariY+scarferuption comp but really it's prone to RNG very hard so unless you're me i don't recommend that.


p.s. personal favorite: ditch leftovers on fini and run wide lens Icy Wind. Be a real man.
Tbh, I don't really understand how people get to like 1000 with Rain teams (Koko, Pelipper, M-Swampert or a Steel-type), Charizard Y + Scarferuption seems too strange for me and hell naw, I'm not running Icy Wind with Wide Lens, dammit. xD

Hell, I might start going back to Gen 4 and run Disquake with Zapdos and Garchomp or Landorus. (Incarnate or Therian?)
 
"people". Aside from veterans, you aint finding anyone at 1000 wins, and reaching 1000 wins is less a matter of team composition and more a matter of experience / solid decision making.
 
Though not my best composition, this team brought me to 231 wins, 20 less than with Naganadel. (I need to find something that involves hyper offense soon)
But, it's still pretty decent, so I thought I could share it.

THE ROCK (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

My overview: Incineroar, though not the fastest Fake Out user, is very useful to use when paired with Latios, allowing it to take physical and special hits thanks to its Assault Vest. Fake Out also allows Latios to get off its nuke (Z-Move) for free. Flare Blitz is a great STAB move to use, however comes with the drawback of causing recoil damage. Knock Off is a good STAB move to use as well and provides great utility by knocking off items off of opponents. Finally, Low Kick is good to use for coverage options, however, I do not know what's better to use on Incineroar. 252 HP and 4 Def allows Incineroar to take hits better while an Adamant Nature and 252 Atk allows it to hit as hard as possible.

Counters:
Ground-types: Ground-types can carry Earthquake can really mess up Incineroar, however, some are not bulky enough to live a Devastating Drake from Latios. Those who can live a Devastating Drake, though, can use their STAB moves on Incineroar. Nidoqueen, Hippowdon, and Landorus are prime examples.

Water-types: Suicune, Slowbro, and Wishiwashi are bulky Water-types that can live a Knock Off and hit back with a strong Water-type attack, like Scald or Hydro Pump. Politoed, in particular, can set up the rain sometimes with its ability by random chance, Drizzle.

Latias (Latios) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

My overview: Like the name? Because I do. Latios is a strong attacker in Doubles and I feel like people really underestimate it. Especially that Devastating Drake powered up by a Draco Meteor. That really hurts. Psychic is a good STAB option to spam around to hit Fighting-types that Incineroar can't handle, like Terrakion. Thunderbolt is the coverage option that I chose because nothing particularly targets Water-type Pokemon. Protect is used because, well, it's Doubles, dammit. 252 SpA and 252 Spe, along with a Timid Nature is used to allow Latios to be super fast and hit very hard, while giving the rest of the EV Spread to SpD.

Counters:
Dark-types: Bisharp can Sucker Punch Latios to oblivion. Tyranitar and Weavile aren't Sucker Punchers, but they can easily prove to become a big problem. Dark-type coverage can also be a problem to deal with as well, like Dark Pulse Heatran. (Who TF runs that)

Trick Room: Speed is definitely one of Latios best traits, but it can also become its worst during Trick Room. Audino, Cofagrigus, and Reuniclus are notable Pokemon that can take a hit and set up Trick Room.

Fairy-types: Florges can easily eat a hit and strike back with Moonblast. Aromatisse is one Fairy-type in particular that can set up Trick Room.

Mega Gengar: Regular Gengar is okay to deal with but Mega Gengar is definitely one of the most threatening Pokemon to face despite being super frail. It especially becomes a problem once Incineroar is out of the picture, with Thunderbolt for Tapu Fini, and Shadow Ball for both Mega Metagross and Latios. And as if that wasn't enough, Destiny Bond, boi.

Mist (Tapu Fini) @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Moonblast
- Protect

My overview: Tapu Fini is definitely a very strange Fairy-type to use on this team but it works very well. Though Misty Terrain weakens Devastating Drake if Latios were to use it, it also prevents status conditions from being spurred upon the team. Muddy Water is a good spammable option to use to lower accuracy. Moonblast is that secondary STAB move to possibly lower the foe's Special Attack stat. Ice Beam is a good coverage move to use alongside Muddy Water and Moonblast and though it may seem strange to use, it hits Garchomp, Landorus, and other Dragons harder and also hits Amoonguss. Protect allows to scout and punish attackers into Tapu Fini's slot. A Calm Nature along with mixed defenses can allow Tapu Fini to take Electric-type attacks much better.

Counters:
Electric-types: Even if it can take one, that doesn't mean it can take a lot of them without taking massive damage. Zapdos, Thundurus, and Raikou are huge mentions. Raikou is the biggest problem to this team, as it has access to Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt and can boost with Calm Mind.

Grass-types: Amoonguss can be a pain to deal with and is the main Grass-type to watch out for. Others like Virizion, Mega Venusaur, and Rotom-M can really do a ton of damage to it with their super effective STAB options. Rotom-M can also paralyze it if its Misty Terrain is down.

Stomping Gigabyte (Metagross-Mega) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
- Ice Punch
- Protect

My overview: Mega Metagross is a ridiculously powerful Pokemon to use in Doubles, and fits the D/S/F core very well. A Jolly Nature with 252 EVs in both Atk and Spe allows Mega Metagross to be very fast and hit hard, while the rest of the EVs go into SpD, because I'm lazy. Iron Head is the best STAB move for Mega Metagross to use as it has a good chance to flinch an opponent. Stomping Tantrum, while not as powerful as Earthquake, gets a Tough Claws boost and Ice Punch is a good coverage option to have. Protect is there because it's f*cking Doubles.

Counters:
Ground-types: Man, the same problems as Incineroar. Just go to Incineroar's post.

Fire-types: Actually, speaking of Incineroar, that's one of the very few Pokemon that actually demolishes Mega Metagross to the ground. Entei, Moltres, Scarf Typhlosion and Mega Charizard X and Y can mess Mega Metagross up and break its coding.

Steel-types: Steel-types seem to wall Mega Metagross very well, like most Steel-type Megas, namely Mega Aggron and Mega Metagross. Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor also seem to do very well against it too.


LOSS: S8WW-WWWW-WWWU-8899
-----


Alright, that's it. Still, can someone recommend me some Hyper Offense Pokemon, that seems to be my best playstyle. I ain't a Brain, but I guess I'm a Brawn, I guess that's not a good thing. I dunno.
Well, Tapu Bulu would be an excellent addition to your team as it weakens certain Ground moves and can deal with pesky Water/Ground/Electric Pkm. Personally, I recommend a Life Orb set. This is the Tapu Bulu set I would use:

Wood Hammer, Horn Leech, Protect, Superpower
108 HP | 252 Atk | 12 Def | 4 SpD | 132 Speed

It works wonder with Tailwind support, for example from Latios.
If you dislike Tapu Bulu, Kartana is fine as well, but I would realy suggest Tapu Bulu as it can take Fighting and Dark moves Incineroar and Metagross are weak to respectively.
Another amazing Pkm is Kommo-o. It's a good wallbreaker and an excellent cleaner in my experiences.

Modest, Z-Move, Bulletproof, Clanging Scales | Close Combat | Protect | Laser Focus/Work Up
212 HP, 244 SpA, 52 Speed

Kommo-o can deal with Gengar thanks to Bulletproof. As with Tapu Bulu, Tailwind works wonder. Both Pkm are able to outspeed Mega Alakazam, and they hit very hard. You have the choice between Laser Focus and Work up. The former will destroy opposing Pkm relying on defensive boosts, while the latter can be more consistent, and it boosts Attack and Special Attack. Personally, I would go for Laser Focus because there is nothing more annoying than dealing with Calm Mind Suicune and Cresselia or Curse Registeel.

Edit: I would recommend to put the 4 EVs in Special Defense as far as Incineroar is concerned because you don't want Download boost from Porygon2 and Porygon-z
 
Does anyone have recommendations for an all out attackers team looking for 100 wins in Super Singles?
I'm thinking some combination of Greninja, Mimikyu, Nihilego, Garchomp, Dragonite, M-Blaziken, M-Lopunny, M-Salamence, M-Scizor but I'm open to ideas. I have a Naive Greninja I'd like to be my lead if possible.

Edit - This is for regular Moon, if it matters.
 
Does anyone have recommendations for an all out attackers team looking for 100 wins in Super Singles?
I'm thinking some combination of Greninja, Mimikyu, Nihilego, Garchomp, Dragonite, M-Blaziken, M-Lopunny, M-Salamence, M-Scizor but I'm open to ideas. I have a Naive Greninja I'd like to be my lead if possible.

Edit - This is for regular Moon, if it matters.
Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Outrage

Greninja @ Life Orb /Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick (or some other coverage like dark pulse)
- Grass Knot

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Brick Break / bug bite / Brutal swing

What about something like this? Straight out offense, great typing synergy, lots of sweeping potential. Garchomp should lead in this case, because if it can set up SD it will sweep more often than not.
 
Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Outrage

Greninja @ Life Orb /Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick (or some other coverage like dark pulse)
- Grass Knot

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Brick Break / bug bite / Brutal swing

What about something like this? Straight out offense, great typing synergy, lots of sweeping potential. Garchomp should lead in this case, because if it can set up SD it will sweep more often than not.
That looks fun. I think I'll breed them. Is Scald generally better than Surf?
 

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