Battle Tree Discussion and Records

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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I've updated the leaderboard through here. Sorry for my prolonged absence. After due reflection, I've decided *not* to add Burning Abyss's streak to the leaderboard. Too many legitimate doubts have been raised. I reiterate that this is not a court of law, and absolute 100% certainty is not required to omit a likely fraudulent streak. While I very much appreciate the careful review many of you provide for notable streaks that look suspicious, review that was certainly helpful here, let me remind everyone that we want to keep this thread as positive and sociable as possible, so please, even when critiquing a suspect streak, remember to minimize the personal attacks.

Best of luck with the streaks, all!
 
Note: I do not wish this to be added to the leaderboard, nor any randoms exploits henceforth, as they'll only create (in my opinion) dissatisfying clutter.

My most recent failed streak ended at 554 wins; while this was born from an attempt to break my previous record and maybe even hold onto second place for longer, Eisenherz was simultaneously having so much fun with his new forray into Randoms. I'll let him elaborate on that; regardless, I was being driven insane with withdrawl and couldn't wait to get back into it. In doing so I basically ensured that, sooner or later, I was going to sabotage all that prior success with Spidey & Friends; unfortunately, fate decided it'd be sooner.

However, the reason I'm even mentioning this publicly outside the Discord is because I managed, for the second time, to do 250 straight battles with my TR randoms format. Many, many failed runs fell between my last published streak and this one, so hanging on for so long felt like an accomplishment as great as the first time I'd done it. I believe a big part of that was drastically changing up my flunkies; not the movesets themselves but the way they're organized, which I'd like to illustrate a bit.

During my 1845 run, I drew from a pool of 60 TR abusers and had a couple dozen alts with more limited means of selection. All of the alts are flawed in some significant manner, and many standard abusers have their own issues that can lend to a lot of wasted rolls if they're concentrated. So, I tried to shrink that pool of 60 to a mere 30, and do away with all of the alts. In choosing all of my preferred flunkies from the original sixty, I was left with somewhere beteen 44-49; to make it easier to narrow down, I then excluded everything with an excess of 49 speed (base 50.) I then removed some things with comparable coverage to another flunky while also being faster (off the top of my head, Armaldo and Beartic were axed this way.) This still left me with over thirty, so I made the difficult decision to axe a few things which hit their speed tiers with Iron Balls; the reasoning being, items which lended to healing, bulk or more firepower were generally going to be more useful than speed-halving items, especially when the users were still a little slower than their teammates under TR. Some pokes I could barely stand to part with included Primarina, Clawitzer, Chandelure, and Heatran.

My trimming resulted in this box, not including the setters and megas, which remained combined and intact:


With fewer available pokes, I also rolled half the amount: Two possible setters, two possible megas, and only four abusers. While the hold items repeated often, it generally didn't create issues. While this greatly increased the number of repeats, as expected, the intended trade-off was consistency. I believe I've achieved that, not coincidentally.

Not wanting to abandon my other pokes entirely, I gave myself the arbitrary milestone of 150 (100 wins if I were using S&F to reach 50) before "unlocking" the other boxes. From that point on I would use my original RNG layout.

My first attempt with this reduced cast relatively easily reached 154 wins before Ezra slaughtered me in a similarly one-sided fashion. My next attempt crashed and burned in the 60s, due to running a team with no easy means of quickly dealing with Ferrothorn4- at least not while its teammates still posed a threat (entirely my fault as I've been consciously making sure I run coverage specifically to deal with that thing... ...rolls permitting.)

I vowed to be less careless (for the time being) and the third time managed to do the entire 250, bringing the streak to 300 total. I would use Spidey & Friends until 520, at which point Eisen had hopelessly overdosed on his own Randoms, and the contact high was enough to fuck my streak. Thanks, friend. I would manage only three more teams before Erix (sunlight) ran a squad perfectly oriented to murder mine.
Battles 1-50 were done with Spidey & Friends. At 150, my self-proclaimed "Super Factory" was unlocked and I began accommodating the other pokes.








This Araquanid is not the frontrunner for Spidey & Friends; it uses Soak and Entrainment, and Waterium Z (while Z-Liquidation is wholly inferior with instruct, Helping Hand makes the crystal a very useful hold item.) Soak was used a couple of times to murder bulky foes with Double-Edge. Entrainment's best use was on Slowking, who (as those familiar with my flunkies know) holds Choice Specs; locked into Scald, it was used to destroy a Registeel who had set up and would have taken much longer to whittle down without.


Strength Sap and Moonblast are enough to make Vileplume welcome amongst my other flunkies. Special-attacking Grass-typed TR abusers aren't that common, anyway.


Vikavolt is on a short list of Pokemon I was interested in encountering a lot more often with a reduced pool. I really enjoy using it.






Alright, I remember this run getting off to a pretty rough start. My pool was loaded with Ghost weaknesses and not enough heavy firepower outside that type. I ended up giving the rarely seen Weakness Policy Bronzong a go, which actually did me some good. Running Harry in the back was also something I never did before, but having that Fake Out as a late-game clutch saved my ass a few times.

The biggest change was realizing that, depending on the team, no-attacks Cofagrigus was just not pulling enough weight. The AI wasn't playing into Destiny Bond when I needed it, so after three or four battles I'd quit and replaced Ally Switch with Shadow Ball, which, believe me, made a world of difference. Even with no investment, it was a sizeable chunk of damage and good for more than the 50 Night Shade could inflict on a lot of targets.

Fully offensive Mega Slowbro did so much of the work that I was taken aback (even with all the grief Slowbro4 is able to give other players) and would strongly contemplate using it in that role whenever it was drawn. Until now, something about it just... made it stand out a lot less than other megas of mine (especially Camerupt and Mawile) but that movepool with 252+ was just eating everything that mattered. It was also faster than everything that mattered. Call me a repeat customer.


After the success of Musharna x Heracross, I would be much more willing to use faster, unwieldy megas if After You were a thing. It's usually pretty effective.

Super Factory Unlocked! Get Those Shitmons Ready!


During the batches of failed runs, I had become very enthused to run FWG cores, which frequently enjoyed smooth victories. While those cores had not contained Parasect, Eisen was active in the Discord when this team was rolled and I succumbed to peer pressure. Actually, given the rest of the team, Parasect was fairly useful! I remember Kikujiro managing to give this team a lot of shit, largely in part due to Togedemaru2 setting Electric Terrain. Snorlax was also unable to sweep the entire team due to succumbing to paralysis.










Muk copied Huge Power a few times during this run, though Mawile usually didn't leave much behind to slay. The novelty still felt great.






Completely unexpected MVP (to borrow Eisenherz terminology) in Nidoqueen foregoing the normally much safer Iron Ball for Life Orb. Not often outsped to harmful effect during the run, Queenie was ripping things apart and carrying the team on several occasions, in no small part due to her bulk and useful resistances. Considering she remains in the alts box for nostalgia more than anything else, I was so impressed. (All right, to be fair, Queenie was a pretty dominant force during Maison Triples and will likely regain a lot of status if that returns.)


Helping Hand and Gravity especially murderous for this team. Soak came in use again (Entrainment temporarily dropped for Protect) for Tangrowth's benefit.


I recall making a big deal of Dragonite soloing a female office worker by itself with little other than Gravity (and of course TR) in effect. Say what you will about Iron Tail; it OHKOs Mega Gardevoir.




I recall Roserade making really short work of a Sun team, and took particular delight in nailing RotoHeat with HP Ground under Gravity.





Now at 300 wins, Spidey & Friends took over until Battle 531.


I normally run Wide Lens on Chesnaught, but having Soak Araquanid still kept the Life Orb available and I thought I could use the much-needed increase in firepower. It ended up paying off, as both it and HH were cleanly demolishing most frontlines and giving Golem free reign to abuse anything which couldn't resist Electric. Audino pairs pretty well with Chesnaught also.


As with Cofagrigus, I stopped a few battles in to replace Ally Switch (at least temporarily) with Pain Split. I was too reluctant to use Memento, as it was making such good use of Helping Hand in the meantime and I didn't want my backline to find themselves in situations where the added boost could be missed. Like Cress, Uxie doesn't die quickly.


I was perhaps a bit too eager to run Shiinotic, as Eisen had a really fun-looking run with it early on during his randoms. While Shiinotic was still useful, it added a Fire weakness and gave Erix (battle 555) an easier time in demolishing me. Leading Zard-Y made it so Slowbro couldn't do anywhere near enough damage to dismantle the team quickly enough. This battle stood out for how quickly I was put into checkmate while still setting TR unhindered.
While I don't really expect anyone to read through that, I would've been annoyed with myself for bothering to chronicle all those teams only to delete the entire set without mentioning it. Well, that, and I was still pretty happy to pull the 250 off a second time. I'm in the middle of another fairly decent randoms expedition and, while I'm not far past 100 wins, I plan to keep it entirely to Factory rules without letting Spidey & Friends coast for hundreds of battles. Here's hoping my success continues with that.

I still haven't recorded the videos from my Monotype TR challenge... or the challenges before that <_<
 
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Thanks for adding me to the leaderboard NoCheese
My current streak is coming along nicely. I saved my game at battle 60 for the night, and I've already had a scary match which was decided in a literal coin toss. battle code below.

Battle 54: CA7G-WWWW-WWWT-T85E
I had a game shortly after defeating Red where I got lead Mismagius. So I think to myself. "I bet it's the one with Perish Song."
I switch to my Mimikyu with Red Card. It uses Protect. Fails. I go for Taunt and it Power Gem's me. (Yep that's the perish song moveset alright).
Red Card activates and the second pokemon is Espeon. And i'm like... OMG! I don't have Red Card any more to get rid of this thing.
I use Thief on Espeon (expecting it to have magic bounce) and steal Expert Belt, but i'm 2 shotted by Shadow Ball. Still have no clue what ability it has. Maybe should of scouted with Thunder Wave. At least if it was synchronise it would be paralysed. oh well.

My Durant comes out and i'm sweating like mad here... do I Entrainment with a 50% magic bounce chance. or do i x scissor and somehow find a way through the perish song Mismagius when it comes out again.

... I close my eyes. Hit Entrainment. And I hear the "BOING BOING BOING BOING CHING" sound.
I'm screaming YESSSSS!!!! In my my best M Bison meme impression. I got the Synchronise Espeon!!!
I'm then free to switch out and set up with my Venomoth and sweep the game. Not sure how the match would of gone if it was a magic bounce Espeon.
 
It's better than a coin flip in your favor there. Espeon only has a 33% chance of Magic Bounce: there are three ability slots that all have equal chance to appear, even if two slots are assigned the same ability (Synchronize).
 
Thanks for adding me to the leaderboard NoCheese
My current streak is coming along nicely. I saved my game at battle 60 for the night, and I've already had a scary match which was decided in a literal coin toss. battle code below.

Battle 54: CA7G-WWWW-WWWT-T85E
I had a game shortly after defeating Red where I got lead Mismagius. So I think to myself. "I bet it's the one with Perish Song."
I switch to my Mimikyu with Red Card. It uses Protect. Fails. I go for Taunt and it Power Gem's me. (Yep that's the perish song moveset alright).
Red Card activates and the second pokemon is Espeon. And i'm like... OMG! I don't have Red Card any more to get rid of this thing.
I use Thief on Espeon (expecting it to have magic bounce) and steal Expert Belt, but i'm 2 shotted by Shadow Ball. Still have no clue what ability it has. Maybe should of scouted with Thunder Wave. At least if it was synchronise it would be paralysed. oh well.

My Durant comes out and i'm sweating like mad here... do I Entrainment with a 50% magic bounce chance. or do i x scissor and somehow find a way through the perish song Mismagius when it comes out again.

... I close my eyes. Hit Entrainment. And I hear the "BOING BOING BOING BOING CHING" sound.
I'm screaming YESSSSS!!!! In my my best M Bison meme impression. I got the Synchronise Espeon!!!
I'm then free to switch out and set up with my Venomoth and sweep the game. Not sure how the match would of gone if it was a magic bounce Espeon.
The right thing to do would have been to switch to Durant immediately and KO Espeon, and then you have a full health Mimikyu to switch in to whatever comes out next.
 
The right thing to do would have been to switch to Durant immediately and KO Espeon, and then you have a full health Mimikyu to switch in to whatever comes out next.
So after Mimikyu red cards out the mismagius and I see espeon, I immediately switch back to Durant. X-scissor, then switch back to Mimikyu. ok cool thanks. i'm glad you replied to my post.

Just double checking the damage calculation as well for Espeon using Shadow Ball on the switch in.
252 SpA Espeon set 4 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Durant on a critical hit: 122-144 (73.9 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Espeon set 3 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Durant on a critical hit: 133-157 (80.6 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Durant survives both Espeon's using a critical hit Shadow Ball! Unbelievable.

I thought this would be one of those "what if I red card out a worse Pokemon" out situations.

It's better than a coin flip in your favor there. Espeon only has a 33% chance of Magic Bounce: there are three ability slots that all have equal chance to appear, even if two slots are assigned the same ability (Synchronize).
I took a huge gamble here. But luckily it paid off for me. I thought Pokemon with 1 normal ability and 1 hidden ability had their abilities at a 50% ratio.
But according to SadisticMystic here if a Pokemon has no second ability, but they have a hidden ability then then first ability copies to the second ability slot as well. and all 3 slots have a 33.33% chance of showing, with odds favouring the 66.66% chance of the normal ability. This is good information for later runs past 100.
While this does leave me hopeful that it "MIGHT" work in the future. I will never risk something like this past a 200 streak. It's nerve wrecking to say the least.
 
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Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
While the majority of the community here has been plugging away at the most recent games, I myself have been leaving USUM to the side, denying me the chance to see what Angency and the Ultra Tree is all about. Playing through the game has always seemed like a lot of work to me, so I wasn't bothering with it...until last month, when I summoned up a lot of work ethic and plowed through the in-game. I finally have been able to try Ultra Moon's facilities out over the past couple of weeks; the combined -Snorlax-/Deynon work recently published, on top of the Discord crew launching an all-out siege on all facilities other than Crystal Tower, has motivated me to ramble about my initial impressions of these places. And so...

Agency
- Current Rank 26
- The level scaling system has been a blessing for me to this point, as I'm not a Singles player and find that smashing lower-level opponents in small chunks of three battles takes some of the tedium out. Probably the most fun I've had playing Singles since one of the Gen VI online competitions (I forget which one)
- while cripple-and-setup, which propels the Singles savants here to untold heights, still works fine here, it can be mitigated, even with the level gap if you prepare right, by the stupid early sets that seem to have bizarrely efficient strategies for dealing with that; while I have had one of the best setup rentals known to this point, I have been reminded that, just like in traditional facilities, random stuff like Exploud1 or the various Psych Up users can poop all over the party. (this run so far is probably the most dangerous Sylveon2 has ever been to me.)
- highlights for things rented so far: Snorlax2, Camerupt3, Crobat3, Ribombee4, Terrakion1, Scizor4, Salamence4. The one lowlight has been the disappointing Trevenant3
- I have imagined a bizarre sort of camaraderie with the two fellows who have provided their rentals to me for the bulk of this run, even though it's obviously not them playing. It has cut down on the Singles tedium further and given me a tiny glimpse into a future with online non-local facilities Multis, however that ends up transpiring...
- speaking of which, there is no way any of this happens without the help of two fellow facilities Trainers and their charges:


"MysticCune" (Suicune1) (Lvl.100) (thanks to SadisticMystic)

The Anti-Sora to every battle facility Trainer's Bold Suicune. The setup sweeper.



"MaxLat" (Latios2) (Lvl.100) (thanks to Max. Optimizer)

The cleanup hitter, my go-to for most battles so far, would lead if I could make it so.

So yeah, find your Rank 50 Agency buddies if you have any, it makes this awesome even in the early stages. I can't wait to explore the upper reaches of this place with this crew...

Tree
- I was initially determined to play through the Basic Tree lines with fair teams, but became annoyed when my first attempt through Singles was stopped by some nonsense with bad matchups happening of Battle 15, being ended by Darmanitan1 (with a team that I don't remember now). So, I just grabbed my mid-eighties in-game team and plowed through Singles with Typhlosion/Granbull/Skarmory
- with that out of the way, the fun stuff could begin. I went to Basic Multis and crushed it with Lillie (at the insistence of several people on the Discord who exerted Pressure on me). I used MegaDrill & Landorus-T from: https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/usum/BT-AFB7-41CC ('Beedrill Team')
- finally, to round things out, I went TOTAL INTIMIDATION through Basic Doubles with Arcanine/Hitmontop/MegaMence/Granbull from: https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/usum/BT-FBAC-4F9E (fun factoid: I didn't notice Arcanine was at Lvl.100 until Battle 11)
- with all super formats unlocked, I have begun my Super Doubles Ultra Moon romps in earnest. I am going to be accumulating BP with the purpose of collecting specific categories of replays for research and fun:
Moon-exclusive Trainer Battles (check)
Kukui Battles
Double TR setter leads (check)
Double Z-Stone holders
Post-30 lead Oricorios
- in the process of doing this, I have gone on one run so far, making it to 157 wins. The First 10 were done using a different member of the QR-UNO for each battle, just to test various things out, along with using the above TOTAL INTIMIDATION team in Battle 6. The crew used:
'FEAR the Frog'
'Wall Boy Strikes Again'
'PheroLele V3: Click Buttons'
'My variation of Japan sand'
'All Hail Kommo-O'
'Focused Balzing Souls'
'White CHALK'
'Floral Kisses'
'Team LC' (for my first Guzma Battle)
- I then stuck with 'All Hail Kommo-O' for battles 11-20; the remainder of the streak was done using a secret new team that is currently carrying one of our regulars here to a new personal best (by like, a lot). I won't reveal the team and let his work speak for itself when the time comes, but if you are on the Discord, or pay enough attention to certain posts on this very thread, it's not much of a secret at all...the team itself is probably the most intuitive I have ever played in the Tree and is likely something I'll more shots to in the future. Once said creator reveals his finished work, I'll vouch for its effectiveness and publish proof and such
- I have been simultaneously attacking Sun Tree Doubles, Maison Triples, and dabbled a little in Subway Doubles at the same time as this streak. It's nice to be able to bounce between various teams, so you never get bored with any one team, should you be determined to make a significant enough streak with any of them. Said teams will be revealed when the time comes.

Thanks to everyone for continuing their good work, and particularly to Unbreakable on the Discord for giving me the kick in the ass needed to finally give Ultra Moon a go.
 
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A few team/streak reports for Tree Doubles. Importable in first spoiler and comments/video codes in second spoiler respectively.

[Preliminary note: I'm terrible at giving a shit on occasion, especially about Poké Pelago maintenance. Some EV spreads will deviate slightly from what I in fact used (to the tune of ~12 EVs assigned to the wrong stat), e.g. Kangaskhan on team #3 has 191 HP, but should be at 193 195 from the spread given -- I gave the one I'd recommend in those cases. Edit edit: Kang's actual speed stat is best put at 138.]

#1: Mega Latias / Arbok / Heatran / Tapu Bulu (145)
Latias @ Latiasite
Timid Nature
Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Grass Knot
- Tailwind
- Ally Switch

Arbok @ Poisonium Z
Adamant Nature
Intimidate
EVs: 108 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 100 SpD / 52 Spe
- Gunk Shot
- Stomping Tantrum
- Coil
- Protect

Heatran @ Life Orb
Modest Nature
Flash Fire
EVs: 36 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 144 SpD / 72 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Nature Power
- Protect

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Jolly Nature
Grassy Surge
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb

A team that features Arbok on its lineup is "probably" not optimal. Nonetheless, I think I can learn from building teams around a self-imposed constraint (even if the mission ends in failure, and losing before 200 isn't satisfying under any circumstance, I'll at least have gained a better understanding of why); it's true that some pokémon are indeed utterly one-dimensional to play with: the predecessor of this snake was Seviper, which, in all versions I tried, including sets like Poisonium Z Belch / Final Gambit / Glare / Protect, may have proven the most template-like pokémon I've used to date: "hit things with Z-move, use Final Gambit/Glare if still alive, the end"; there's no functional difference between that and Specs Unown. Not every flawed pokemon, though, is boring by default: quality of decisions matters most, which I say because I make completely terrible decisions at times, "lol". Part of why I play Tree is to practise cutting down on that, as the punishment for consistent inconsistencies tends to be swift. But enough of this.

Going from 85 to 95 base Atk might not sound like much of an upgrade, but Coil at least puts a multiplicative modifier on that margin, and Arbok can reasonably claim role flexibility. The win condition is setting up a safe TW + Coil, after which Arbok attacks off ~250 Atk with a drawback-free 120BP move (and even more on the first use) and respectable staying power; but in some matchups, one should rather use Arbok as an Intimidate platform / Ally Switch partner, or at least fire the Z-move at +0. Poison STAB, much-maligned, might be found lacking against "sandmons", Ghosts and opposing Poisons, but the latter are perhaps the least-threatening type in the Tree overall (Gengar4 and resident Tapu killer Muk-K2 notwithstanding), and soft checks to sand are mandatory for a streak anyway, due to opposing specialists (Stellan/Vivek, Lou/Benji). Ghosts, however, posed a consistent problem -- e.g. Cofagrigus can set up Trick Room unhindered.

I had not expected Arbok to get as many opportunities to Coil as it did; the fundamental Singles strategy might not translate 1:1 to Doubles (or nobody has demonstrated how to do it yet), but it's still indicated to use it where the opportunity arises, and Doubles gives a few additional tools like Protect and Ally Switch to set up one-turn reprieves despite the bigger constraints on switch efficiency. Poisonium Z is mandatory, as Arbok still cannot afford to depend on Coil; an interesting benefit arises from Coil being Poison-typed as well -- Arbok can, with no turn cost (albeit a future damage cost), reset its stats from opposing Intimidate or slither around enemy Taunt, which often became important in overloading fast enemies carrying the move, as Latias and indeed the team have no hard checks to it.

The EV spread (near-)maximizes Atk for obvious reasons, then aims for 107 Speed (outspeeding Rotoms outside of Tailwind). The rest is poured into the stats that Intimidate and Coil can't address. Some funny assured survivals (barring crits) that arose in practice during the run were -1 Sheer Force Darmanitan4 Flare Blitz and Kingdra3 Hydro Pump in the rain. Despite complementing a Poison STAB better than any other single type, Stomping Tantrum as Ground coverage is the most arguable move on the set (and hits Steels for "nothing" at +0, I assure you); Glare could fit better, but I didn't think Heatran alone should bear the weight of addressing Steel-types either (Bulu locking into Superpower has a high cost in either Tailwind turns or missed opportunity of using the Grass STAB instead of -1 Superpower next turn), and suffers on the defense against Steels).

Unable to block interference from faster leads, Latias-M compensates with astounding bulk behind Intimidate (along with Suicune, it's the only non-priority TW setter that can claim this, imho), bringing the qualities of a Trick Room setter to a Tailwind team, so to speak, in the speed-trainer matchups, which are crucial. Damage and speed investment are non-negotiable; often enough, Latias found itself having to support Arbok's +1 Gunk Shot or +0 Z-Gunk Shot with chip damage, most importantly perhaps against opposing TR setters. Grass Knot was chosen for additional coverage on Grounds and Rocks; unfortunately, there's nothing in Latias' movepool that can address Steels with competence. Covering both of Arbok's type weaknesses, Latias can make good use of Ally Switch in the lead to generate otherwise-impossible Coils or safe attacking opportunities, lacking only the ability to address Earthquake (but more about that in a minute); furthermore, Latias/Heatran made for a strong defensive core in DPP OU way back when I played that -- some ideas just stick with you. While Arbok doesn't help Latias' offensive coverage all that much in return, it can at least remove dangerous fairies not named Mawile easily.

Heatran, as mentioned, combines very well with Latias both on offense and defense (Flash Cannon has little sense in fairy-killing: of the truly dangerous ones, Mawile, Primarina, Whimsicott and Shiinotic suffer guaranteed OHKOs from this set in Grassy Terrain, and Gardevoir4 usually avoids the OHKO from LO Flash Cannon anyway; only Togekiss raises any argument), gets its only lacking stat boosted by Tailwind (thus a destined abuser), and removes opposing Steel-types with good consistency, also resisting six types that hit the frontline super-effectively, thus very convenient to bring on a switch. An SDef-biased spread makes some further use of Arbok's Intimidate. I chose Life Orb (over Flame Plate) because Ground plus Grass-type coverage is fantastic and gets used frequently (after the model of special Landorus; for a few examples, review the above Fairy OHKO calcs for yourself -- if you don't want to, I'll say as much as that Primarina34 takes 105% min from LO Grassy Terrain Nature Power). I tried a 50% berry as well on a previous version of the team (which had Sylveon over Bulu), but it would most often fail to trigger, or if at all, it would be consumed as Tailwind would expire, salvaging nothing.

While enemy Earthquake is very beneficial to see T1 (Protect Arbok and it just means a free action for Latias), I still needed a decisive answer to this move for the longer run -- a team variant that tried Sylveon for slot #4 achieved nothing. Tapu Bulu seemed like the firmest answer, uniquely "desaturating" EQ for its teammate regardless of crits (!) the moment it switches in (working quite like a certain pokémon with Lightningrod that has seen recent, as-of-yet unreported success with other Doubles players), also completing the "DSF core" (or rather, that should read "DSG", as the Fairy resistances weren't crucial for this team, covered by two other teammates already) and having enough natural bulk to benefit from Intimidate. The held item was quickly decided, as Arbok was already taking the Z-crystal; for a benchmark/mnemonic, Tapu Bulu with a Choice Band will deal 100% min to uninvested Thundurus with Wood Hammer. I decided to hit 112 Speed -- already becoming a regular speed tier for my Tailwind abusers; 222 is (Mega) Alakazam3 -- and maximize generic bulk here, as Grass-types have ample weaknesses and will thus rarely have the opportunity to choose a neutral-hitting matchup from a particular side during the trading-down phase of a battle (more so if they lack Protect). Superpower is more Steel coverage; Rock Tomb a last-ditch solution to expiring Tailwind (not too useful when it was never set) and concession to Moltres/Talonflame's existence. An alternative choice for its item would have been Assault Vest, but I think that fits better with teams that don't rely on a frontline mon requiring setup.

Videos
------
#99 -- Aether Foundation Heidi cosplays as a sand trainer with special guest Muk-K2 to foil Tapu Bulu. Shows off a few tricks of this team, including Heatran taking a 3HKO Earthquake hit from Gliscor courtesy of a second Intimidate and Grassy Terrain, Ally Switch to maneuver around a Quick Claw (which didn't activate in the battle), timing Bulu's reentry to avoid loss of terrain, and finally why Horn Leech is a good move to have alongside Wood Hammer. THVW-WWWW-WWWT-U6MF

#146 -- Pretty formulaic loss. Ultimately, Incineroar4 gets its Quick Claw activation. GQGG-WWWW-WWWT-U6N3


#2: Kartana / Incineroar / Kommo-o / Mega Gardevoir (407)
Kartana @ Focus Sash
Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Tailwind
- Protect

Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 92 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Thunder Punch

Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
Soundproof
EVs: 140 HP / 196 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 60 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Taunt
- Ally Switch

[nb. this was in fact the last hurrah of my Hasty Kartana, but I'd have used Jolly]

Here's "Kommovoir", although the other two members are just as important. I've teased this team's existence and my hopes about its success a while back, and as usual, I managed to misplay it to end the streak earlier than it could have.

For a while now, Doubles players in Discord have been trying Kommo-o on various teams, and (spoilers) all broken their previous records by quite the margin: in brief, this pokémon fits with the foundational Doubles strategy very well; the combination of spread move + setup on the same turn is unparalleled both as such and in its strategic efficiency. turskain was, as far as I know, the first to note that its potential was greater yet in Tree than VGC play, where the computer will never see its main attraction coming and thus cannot take effective countermeasures beyond its usual weapons of variety and probability (this is a general rule, of course). paperquagsire has an ongoing streak with a different idea than Tailwind support, but that's for him to reveal.

Kartana as a Tailwind setter was already suggested on the thread by lolnub in his Mence/Kart/Fini/Lax writeup. I initially thought of pairing it with Mega Charizard-Y and Kommo-o for apparently great type synergy, a dual-setting lead (what could go wrong), a boost to Kommo-o's +0 Flamethrower allowing it to beat Whimsicott/Shiinotic/Mawile (along with more generic uses, "hit Steels!" etc.), and the high Atk/SAtk generic synergy as well as weather control / freeze immunity from expected Blizzards.

With that lineup, though, I noticed (through a quick loss below 200) that -- like most setters -- it has a worrying matchup against the speed specialists in the Tree which pelt it with Taunt, Fake Out, Rock Slide (notably Greninja3, and Lycanroc-Day2/Braviary3 both on Kukui, already a troublesome foe to Kommo-o teams due to his small roster with Primarina and Ninetales-A), paralysis procs, or simply fast damage combined with any move from a partner (e.g. Talonflame4, which outspeeds by one point), and rarely survives past the TW setting turn against most other serious foe draws, "so why not Whimsicott". I decided that pairing it with disruption was mandatory, and Incineroar with Assault Vest, whose bulk eclipses Mega Kangaskhan's with no need for a Mega Stone (although it does introduce more weaknesses from its type), seemed like the best user of Fake Out to pair it with, with one possible exception that I won't reveal yet, because it's a future team idea...

There's nothing subtle about Kartana's set: my doctrine is that the Tailwind setter lacking priority must be as fast as possible for the sake of autarchy (Fake Out is no complete guarantee, either). Assault Vest would preclude running Protect, which would be ill-advised against faster Fake Out at least (and Kartana very much enjoys the "extra life" anyway), and Focus Sash + no AV option suggest no reason to invest anything else -- Intimidate already raises Kartana's effective Defense to sufficient levels to get 3HKO'd by arbitrary Earthquakes, which despite no Ground resistance on the team, isn't much of an issue due to its members' natural bulk. (In fact, e.g. Garchomp3 usually locks Fire Fang against this frontline due to the -1 Atk -- but in that case, you have to be careful of the flinch, and I aim to Fake Out all Garchomp leads.) Kartana's main advantages over safer setters such as Whimsicott or Talonflame are attacking with 233 Atk on T1 (helpful against Trick Room) and providing a secondary sweeper at no additional pokémon slot cost over the setter (or turn cost, as Kartana gains boosts from what you want it to do anyway). Beyond that, in the special case, it provides an excellent typing (even on a bulkless pokémon, which Kartana only is on the special side anyway, typing is paramount because it determines the computer's move choice very predictably; it generates countless switches for Kommo-o or Incineroar into Flamethrower) and, somewhat less notable, Protect-baiting opportunties. Despite its advantage against Brightpowder/Incense holders and greater threat to the Grass/Fairies, I don't run Smart Strike, because a lack of Fighting coverage reduces Kartana's autarchy as an attacker and sweeper too much -- i.e. what makes it worthwhile to use as the setter in the first place.

Incineroar holds this team together; it needs no Focus Sash nor Mega Stone to claim a Fake Out rate of two uses per battle while only costing one pokémon slot; it has the bulk (importantly not pierced by crits on the special side; the crit vulnerability of Intimidate can be made up for "in numbers" as it supports all four pokémon, not all of which will be crit; but SDef-wise everyone is left to their natural abilities here, and Kartana already has none) to make up for a somewhat-shaky typing on the turn it stays in for Fake Out. It removes Mawile (as well as other less crucial Steels that still cost Kommo-o turns on which it can't use its spread move) from the field, Brightpowder, Choice Scarf, or perhaps a Quick Claw from such Kommo-o troublers as Drampa3 and Uxie3; while it cannot outrun too many foes even in Tailwind with the spread I use, it notably outruns Primarina even outside of it (if given 4 Speed EVs). I chose Thunder Punch over e.g. Low Kick or Snarl for the very reason that I'm not going to play a Kommo-o team where not all its teammates can hit Primarina for 51% min or better -- or perhaps I will, but since Kommo-o is a centralizing if also exceptionally rewarding win-con, I don't want to lose a 2-2 due to Primarina's presence, which stands out from all foes in the Battle Tree in its utter domination of a +1 Kommo-o. Of course, Primarina OHKOs Incineroar right back with Hydro Vortex if it can so choose, but picking up a weakened Primarina is what this move is for, as Incineroar will usually be back in the late-game to seal it with Fake Out. Tailwind unfortunately bites with U-Turn, as a slow switching move would have been very helpful here (the damage from U-Turn as such is negligible and doesn't justify a moveslot). Finally, I picked Incineroar not least for its auto-defrosting bread-and-butter STAB, as Kartana will draw Blizzards.

Kommo-o runs a more defensive spread than it does for other teams because I (have to) switch it into attacks more often than those; this is EVd to outspeed the 189 crew (base 120 +nature) at +1 and Garchomp3 in Tailwind at +0, then Glaceon Blizzard at +1 while not cutting "too much" SAtk, citation needed. Otherwise, the moveset has already become standard (including Modest nature), or rather it's taken from turskain's field research, who pioneered Kommo-o over an enormous number of battles (and teams around it).

Here's wha Kommo-o does: you set up the field such that the enemies are harmless in the face of its Soulblaze, and obtain a "free turn" on which you score a double KO -- the best possible move in Doubles -- and the omniboost simultaneously; this also gives Tailwind teams a method to carry the speed advantage beyond the relatively short duration of the move and the vulnerability of the setter. No other pokémon can do all of this, and it helps that spread moves are already tremendous weapons in Doubles and Soulblaze / +1 Clanging Scales are among the very best of them, including their type, from damage alone. Now Kommo-o obviously loses to almost all Fairies (at least unboosted) and getting outsped, which is the team support it requires; but only the former part is truly demanding, as controlling the latter is part of your winning plan anyway. Bulletproof is mandatory over Soundproof because of Trace alone; even if not for that, relevant sound moves in the Tree are rare whereas Focus Blast, at the very least with these leads, is everywhere. A handful of curiosities like Trevenant4 and Ferrothorn4 cannot actually pierce Bulletproof at all, and Mega Steelix almost assuredly uses Gyro Ball first as well.

I initially ran Gardevoir with maximal SAtk / Speed investment, but having preached about diminishing returns and using EVs to address a mon's weaknesses, I figured I should take my own advice to heart. Finding a definite niche over its competition in Tapu Lele's unfortunate negation of allied Fake Out and lack of an impressive spread move, while Sylveon's move lock makes it too inflexible alongside Kommo-o (which already is a mon that spams its spread move whenever possible), Bulkyvoir with Intimidate is the team's all-purpose switch-in, capitalizing on the frontline's Fighting lures and Steel/Poison dissuasion, supporting Kommo-o with its own spread move (beware Soundproof enemies more than usual), taking quick care of opposing backline setup threats (e.g. Volcarona4 if this and Kartana are on the field) with Taunt, and running Ally Switch for, mainly, redirection from Kommo-o, and several other cases such as Crobat-baiting (whose potential Inner Focus and Taunt/Hypnosis pose problems to Kartana that Incineroar can't help with; but against Kartana/Gardevoir it will always Cross Poison from what I've seen). Psyshock hits Primarina for the requisite 2HKO, which Psychic would not; since Kommo-o is mainly a special attacker, I thought it would fit "generically" as well.

Videos
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#317 -- YA (F) Hilario leads Duggy / Ambipom, shows off characteristic T1 overloading (Ambi carries either FO or Taunt/King's Rock Fling) and Kommo-o being able to win without Tailwind thanks to Fake Out support. Sacrificed the least necessary material for the matchup (sorry, Gardevoir). KRFW-WWWW-WWWT-U6L8
#408 -- Lost to Primarina and, of course, having been given the rope to hang myself with in a mistaken Ally Switch. Click Psyshock to win instead. At least it's marginally better than losing to a Rocky Helmet I didn't care to look up. Maybe. 55SW-WWWW-WWWT-U6LA

#3: Kartana / Tapu Koko / Kommo-o / Mega Kangaskhan (886)
Kartana @ Focus Sash
Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Tailwind
- Protect

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Electric Surge
EVs: 12 HP / 20 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Electroweb
- Dazzling Gleam

Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
Bulletproof
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Scrappy
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

[nb. Kang's actual spread was 84 HP / 172 Spe iirc, but use this one instead; same goes for Koko where spreading the 36 defensive EVs is probably better than lumping them into HP altogether, as I did on the actual streak]

After at least some success with Kommovoir, I thought that a Kartana/Kommo-o/Fake Out/Fairy team had more potential yet; the low speed of the team members outside of Tailwind, the general Thunder Wave weakness, and Incineroar's somewhat lacking ability in setting up the field for Kommo-o's entry (even though it was good at supporting both Tailwind and a +1 Kommo-o), as well as some shakiness in Kartana's setting abilities even with Fake Out (mostly against combined threats from speed trainers, or anything involving opposing Weavile with Fake Out, etc.), were weaknesses I wanted to address. After false starts with Togekiss + Kangaskhan, which my system reacted to with mysterious SD card reading failures (?) mid-streak that haven't reoccurred since (I ran the "repair tool" but obviously can't tell if it solved the problem), I decided to use what's probably the best Fairy-type and best user of Fake Out together as I had done before, but bring a few USUM additions by mixing it with the Kommovoir approach. It worked quite well.

Fini might be famous for Misty Surge, but on the face of it, Koko already offers Thunder Wave dissuasion into its slot when active (being able to control where these go is almost as valuable as Lightningrod, if not quite), and immunity when it switches back in -- which is easy to generate, thanks to one of the most profitable pivoting moves possible in Choice Specs Volt Switch (you should prefer clicking this over Thunderbolt, even if KOs are available, unless you really need the target dead rather than set-up for Soulblaze -- minimize the unknowns entering the field at any given time). Add team-wide Sleep immunity, and you're already protected against the most relevant status conditions (if Kartana gets burnt, it's by proc at 1HP, which this team usually doesn't mind as it just means an Accelerated Dragon Variant; burnt Kang isn't good but can still Fake Out) except for Freeze; with Fighting moves on three team members and Electric/Grass coverage from two, however, I can address most pokémon with access to Ice moves in sheer numbers (Normal, Water and Ice predominantly). Technically Kommo-o could also defrost friendlies, but that never happened on the streak.

What else does Koko offer? Even if Lele didn't block Fake Out, it can perhaps choose to hit harder or run faster than Koko -- but it can't achieve the same combination of speed and attack, and the combination makes Koko excel. Speed was cut to one point above Weavile, which ties it with Talonflame3 (an irrelevant pokemon whose unactivated Acrobatics hits Kommo-o for nothing; only set4 is dangerous); Greninja3, notorious for being a terrible set yet dangerous setup muddler with Rock Slide, is outsped as well. Initially, I ran even less speed at 190; continued problems with speed trainers convinced me otherwise. An alternative number would be 199 for Choice Scarf Braviary, or max to enable "desperation ties" with Crobat, but the Metagross3 explosion survival (among others) remains a classic reason to invest in Koko's uncanny ability to survive single hits redlined from base stat bulk alone.

Electroweb is the new move here (as far as Tree is concerned -- Eisenherz commented on Discord that "it's a good move" after I had picked it, which makes me assume it sees use in VGC). It was born of my rather misguided idea (born mid-streak at ~100 after another uncomfortable Razville battle) to try Koko as a Tailwind setter instead of Kartana, while keeping the lead pair. Turns out that Tapu Koko can't learn Tailwind; if so, others would most likely have used that before me. It learns this, though, which isn't much worse; I was certainly mindful of turskain's lead Golisopod with Icy Wind, too. I decided to ditch Grass Knot rather than either Electric move (how's this for ignoring all the advice in beginners' strategy guides? my next streak will have Charizard Mega Y with Fire Blast / Flare Blitz / Fire Spin / Cut) since, with Kartana alongside and given that Specs Grass Knot doesn't OHKO any relevant Ground-type anyway, while chipping them for Soulblaze is much better accomplished by locking Gleam (the rest of the team has a good Sand matchup), I found that move most expendable of the "standard" set.

Against speed trainers, it provides better support than Fake Out to Kartana (although Manectric4, Sceptile3 and most notably Jolteon34 are potentially immune); Terrain + Specs invest it with surprising power (lesser pokémon fire Discharges for as much) for utility as a spread move even when the drop isn't relevant. To Kommo-o and Kangaskhan, which reach effective ~210 speed against enemies hit with it, it can replace Tailwind in situations where neither Kartana's T1 setting nor the 'standard' vault to Kangaskhan and T2 Fake Out are safe. To e.g. Raikou, which can draw Inner Focus (at least I'll always know since Raikou's other ability is Pressure), fires outspeeding Thunder(bolt)s into Kartana habitually and would otherwise proc paralysis far too often for me to be comfortable, it denies the denial -- although I've found that Raikou34 are less efficient to handle with this move, since one usually Protects while the other usually sets Reflect, but I still fire it. To Electrode with its potential fast Taunt and Static danger making it unsafe for Kang to Fake Out, it does the same... etc. The drawback is 95% accuracy whenever you use this move (and it's "tech" for speed trainers, not a move for "generic" matchups), but even then, (1) not every E-Web miss means you lose the battle instantly: do consider the risk of the miss vs. any given lead pair but don't discount it for only moderate danger in failure events; (2) if hitting only *one* enemy lead with a speed drop is already advantageous enough for Kartana to set safely (which will happen often, as this is precisely what Focus Sash benefits from), Electroweb's effective miss chance drops to 1/400, which should be good enough (I did encounter this double miss exactly once).

Finally, Adamant Kang is here because it's the best user of Fake Out and formidable with Tailwind; some bulk has been invested instead of speed because it's the usual target for switches, not Kommo-o, which must be protected from damage as well as you can; everything else loses Soulblaze efficiency. Putting Kartana/Kang in the lead opens up similar weaknesses to Kartana/Incineroar. I much prefer Drain Punch over Low Kick because it turns Kang's HP into a more easily-accessed resource pool, and draining shortly before Soulblaze (Kang should cut 138 speed, one above Kommo-o, ideally), after a switch, is a bread-and-butter move here. Double-Edge is the only correct move for STAB; those HP you seem to save with Return are irrelevant when Kang already gets battered down to ~50% or worse on the switch.

Some particular threats:

* Cresselia34 (combined min roll from Bolt/Blade to Cress4 is 93.7%, and because TR is counterindicated T1, Cress3 gets a turn to Swagger your support)
* Trevenant4 (the only other TR setter that the leads cannot always get an OHKO on; counterplay is given by Kommo-o resisting all its moves with Bulletproof, and it being safe to Sucker Punch under TR)
* Crobat4 (carries fast Taunt; can't Electroweb this because you get crit-OHKOd, can't Fake Out safely: can overload with T1 Tailwind + Volt Switch Crobat slot, but trouble if it shows up with e.g. Jolteon alongside, which usually uses an Electric move on Kartana)
* Heatran4 (threatens Earth Power into Koko slot, which has a non-crit chance to OHKO unless you cut for 190 speed)
* Magnezone34 (in Electric Terrain. Always check with left-slot Kartana whether this has Magnet Pull; if not, both Analytic and Sturdy give you trouble, but a VS->Kang into its slot will help if all combinations with Kommo-o are a safe field state, judging by its partner. If not, Protect and lock Thunderbolt into it instead.)
* Porygon-Z4 (Z-Tri Attack; if you cannot double-target (S-Sword is not enough for Pory-Z3, which will Ice Beam Kartana to freeze worst-case!), must sacrifice one)
* Whimsicott34 (much more so with Prankster; I usually Volt Switch these, because it will break Prankster Substitute, and VS pushes either of +1 Flamethrower or Double-Edge into range to KO set4. Probably the most dangerous Fairy to this team; all others are covered well.)
* Glaceon34
* Ribombee34 (TBolt immediately, but due to presence on speed trainer rosters, this isn't always possible.)
* Tsareena34 (Queenly Majesty; due to scoring super-effective hits on 3 out of 4 team members, it shows unpredictable targeting unless you have Koko active, which has trouble hitting it back.)
* among QC holders, pay particular attention to Drampa3 and Uxie3 with Kommo-o active, as well as Talonflame4, whose priority Brave Bird can always crit-OHKO

Generally, be most careful around speed trainers (Leena/Buddy/Hilario/Thamina/Raz/Granville), scientists/breeders (meaning TR), and False Ezra / True Ezra.

Videos
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I have more; can add some by request.

#422 -- Awful dilemma -- how to deal with Cresselia34 / Raikou4? I decide on Electroweb despite the TR danger, because of the danger that Swagger from Cress3 will pose otherwise (Raikou going on to full para-proc Kartana would become unsalvageable) and because if Raikou4 sets Reflect as it usually does, acting before Kartana, there's no (non-crit) way to intercept TR anyway, although the Speed drop of course makes Raikou more dangerous, but it's Cress' Moonblast that prevents me from controlling Raikou (with Kommo-o) anyway, not Raikou's speed against Kang and Kartana, which aren't solutions to it while Reflect is up. Watch the rest for yourself; I should mention that +0 CC deals 120 damage to Regice4, and Specs TBolt 67; Regice4 has 187 HP. Having to reset E-Terrain after TR expiration further complicated matters, thus I had to risk a dry Volt Switch into Thundurus banking on it not choosing Protect in that situation. GMZW-WWWW-WWWT-U6LG

#761 -- Maxim Number Four dictates that you never aim for a non-Soulblaze KO without sufficient reason, and even then I thought I'd have to address this Snow Warning Abomasnow/Camerupt frontline with an immediate KO to Aboma due to the expected Blizzard + Earth Power/Heat Wave damage to Kangaskhan on a switch (Koko can't stay in against this, either). That KO could be defended, but I make the complete mistake of bringing Kommo-o on a Volt Switch here, something I've myself advised against doing under all but the most controlled of circumstances, for the greedy motive of minimizing total damage; after all, I can easily bring full-health Kang with a Protect or Koko sacrifice and set up Fake Out + Soulblaze against the slow camel even without Tailwind support. Except my opponent brings Tsareena34 on the KO, and the number of good actions I get drops from 2 to 0 by only one pokémon coming in. Kang will OHKO in Hail and will survive noncrit connecting HJK from full health (as opposed to mere 66% odds of successful Fake Out), and I simply have to protect Kommo-o against Play Rough because the fourth mon could be "anything"; Kang might not survive it and Koko already loses to the camel. The lastmon is Vespiquen, and ironically, Koko will very likely lose the 1v1 to set3 Vespiquen, a terrible pokémon, if I lock Dazzling Gleam and Camerupt decides to Earth Power injured +1 Kommo-o before dropping to hail damage. I know for sure that Camerupt is at 155HP at that point, and I had a 13/16 roll with single-target Soulblaze considering hail damage, which I take by locking Thunderbolt (neither Vespiquen has Protect). I get the roll, and the streak continues despite the misplay. WLTG-WWWW-WWWT-U6LM

#763 -- Kommo-o1234 / Cresselia34 leads from Victor -- again, I have to make the choice between intercepting Trick Room (Leaf Blade + Thunderbolt, it's only a roll, if a favourable one) or addressing a potential Soundproof speed-boosting Kommo-o with Cress3 support, and I decide that I can more readily abuse Cress' tendency to Moonblast my own Kommo-o to stall out the TR turns if I bring that immediately. Worked as planned; shows some resources of this team getting around TR in action. ACFG-WWWW-WWWT-U6LR

#850 -- Second near-loss involves a potential (and actual) Prankster Whimsicott34 lead, with Espeon alongside (set4 is faster than Kartana). I anticipate Prankster Swagger + Shadow Ball Kartana double-target + self-hit as the worst possible move from Dexio, and Protect Kartana in accordance. You can imagine how that goes (two self-hits, no TW), I do manage to goad Whimsicott into spending Twinkle Tackle early to control it with Kommo-o afterwards; but last mon Braviary in Tailwind, or a Turtonator4 picking Shell Smash sensibly could well have ended the streak. Funny reprieve at the end where, to ensure a Soulblaze kill on Passimian, I have to let it reach -1 from its "100%" Close Combat into either slot. Afterthoughts copy-pasted from Discord:
verdict [after some mock battles]: should just play for [turn 1] tw and baiting [Twinkle Tackle] by taking damage with kangaskhan, which are turns on which whim doesn't use its infernal swagger
this should pretty much be a 3-0 matchup and nowhere near that close, t1 a misplay that the computer punished well
Certainly, this would have been a deserved endpoint to the streak. Don't worry, I get poetic justice soon enough. 5DJW-WWWW-WWWWT-U6M8

#887 -- Of course my streaks must all end with throws, and all the worse throws the longer they continue. Talonflame / Electrode signalling no Air Balloon from Razville; standard play of Protect + Electroweb (breaking Gale Wings is also useful), Trode uses its most common move in Light Screen, then I laugh at the Flare Blitz in Rain rolling a Kartana survival even without the Sash; I bring Kang to reset Koko's choice lock and obtain the 3-2 into a Weavile / Zam backline with Fake Out already spent and 2t of Tailwind remaining. Now I would have assured victory by switching Kang -> Koko keeping it from Weavile's Fake Out to Sucker Punch Zam34 later (always OHKO) except if Weavile decides to be weird with Ice Punch and freezes Koko while Kommo-o is left hanging without Protect (an outside bet, but unexpected T1 Ice Punch happened to Koko before against a lead Weavile, although Fake Out is much more common vs. my leads), so I'm about to make the switch when I notice that I might as well calc what Gleam + Blaze will do next turn after Protecting Kommo-o now, since that's even safer. 79% min from spread Soublaze to Zam, 30% from spread Specs Gleam -- perfect. Choose Protect + Sucker Punch, Weavile uses Fake Out to Kang, Zam is set3, Mega Evolves to trace Parental Bond, Focus Blast to Kang connects and kills. No problem, I click the killing moves, and if at this point you remembered that there was still an active Light Screen, you could take my team or a variant thereof and perhaps reach 1K because you might well be better than me at mustering the necessary concentration over a vast number of battles. The worst drawback of Electric Terrain by far is providing the plus sign to the entire field in all battles.
BHPW-WWWW-WWWT-U6LV


#4: Whimsicott / Flareon / Kommo-o / Mega Metagross (143)
Whimsicott @ Grassium Z
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Timid (+Spd -Atk)
Prankster
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Memento
- Energy Ball

Flareon @ Toxic Orb
EVs: 20 HP / 20 Def / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 212 Spe
Adamant (+Atk -SpA)
Guts
- Facade
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Protect

Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest (+SpA -Atk)
Bulletproof
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Metagross @ Metagrossite
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe -SpA)
Clear Body
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

Flareon might have trouble carving out a niche for itself over Alolan Marowak or other Fire-types, but general opinion of it seems to be lower than that, at least on other OI threads, for what it's worth. (It's certainly not the least useful Eeveelution, which is Leafeon, with Glaceon barely above.) Guts Flareon attacks off effective base 220 Atk with Normal/Fire/Fighting coverage (all of those being 120+ BP moves), sitting at ~40 actual Atk points at Lv. 50 above Jolly Alolawak while being able to reach the coveted 112 tier even with Adamant (and above if you want), which Marowak simply cannot do; all the while, it's completely immune to status including the so-often hateful Static/Effect Spore, and can even live the odd neutral special move from full health (the oddity would be Flareon at full health). Furthermore, considering Metagross' inclusion, avoiding the layered Ghost/Dark weaknesses seemed minor but useful, as on a team with generally-reduced bulk and no disruption or "second wind" (Whimsicott is unlikely to survive), Kommo-o can switch in safely far less often (it must be kept in good health for Soulblaze opportunities). Flareon's drawback is that it dies a lot in return, which can be mitigated by saving Flare Blitz targets for last, but I'd eyeball that you'll see about two sets carrying a Water/Ground/Rock move per battle. As usual, this does at least allow for soft redirection with Protect.

SadisticMystic suggested the HP/Def/SpD spread on Discord after noticing that I was wasting HP to Toxic damage, being barely above 144, of which 16 is a divisor. I can't assess whether having 2 more HP to spend on Flare Blitz recoil (by going 44 HP) outdoes the 2 HP saved this way on two Toxic increments, but Toxic damage always occurs and FB doesn't, so I'd guesstimate that it's better in the average case at least, and made the suggested change.

Whimsicott is probably the most interesting set here (if any are) -- I initially had a Focus Sash but I found it didn't address any weakness I wanted. The major bane of Whimsicott (and what I expected I'd lose to) is Fake Out, for which there is no Protect countermeasure moveslot because I also need all the others: Tailwind obviously, Taunt for the majority of TR setters, (Z-)Energy Ball for the Taunt-immune ones, and Memento to increase Flareon's chances of survival, as well as get Whimsicott off the field with some kind of advantage (sometimes you can Memento into a status move user + sth. that Flareon will OHKO and watch as Thunder Wave or whatever whiffs; not that such plays appearing redeem the choice rationally, but... if others get to reflect Heal Pulse on their own Magic Bounce, let me have this...), which Endeavor wouldn't offer with as much consistency. Also, it's tech against Mawile3, which threatens OHKOs on the entire team with +2 Sucker Punch or +0 Play Rough/Iron Head (Whimsi's typing incentivizing T1 Iron Head on this helps as well). The choice of Grassium Z with Kommo-o may well look suspicious, but it's the only answer I found for these leads to safely address all the Taunt-immune TR leads given Flareon's lack of the Guts boost on T1:

Aromatisse4 Bloom Doom 40% + Flare Blitz 70%
Jellicent3 Bloom Doom 116%
Oranguru3 Energy Ball 22.4% + Flare Blitz 81.8%
Slowking4 Bloom Doom 78.2% + Facade 26.2%
[Non-Mega Slowbro4, which can occur as a lead but only if the left slot mega-evolves before it, obviously also dies to Bloom Doom.]

whereas a single one of LO Moonblast/Seed Bomb/Knock Off/Grass Knot/Energy Ball would not have sufficed. Rarely -- I think 4 times during this streak -- Whimsicott can use the Z-move to effectively seal a game as well, but obviously, don't just use it because there's an OHKO on some Ground-type or whatever. The aim is always to get the double KO from Soulblaze, or (perhaps even better, since fewer unknowns enter the battlefield at the same time) one KO and having a target remaining that can do nothing to Kommo-o, and will die to the spread move next turn.

I suppose I should make a more general comment on Whimsicott: The difference between priority Tailwind and non-priority Tailwind is night and day in the matchups where TW matters the most. The cost of running Whimsicott is that the setter will not contribute much offense, but its status movepool has something for every team too, and Taunt already allows it to stop most TR setters in that matchup (which TW teams must be careful about, too), with the partner usually solving the four remaining problems.

Not much of a comment on Kommo-o here. Once again, it's the best Dragon-type to use in Tree Doubles, and probably the best Fighting-type as well, and one of the best spread attackers, which was direly needed seeing as having simply three mons that win 1-1 matchups "most of the time" doesn't work. With Flareon removing Steels and Fairies not named Primarina (only a range with Facade; Togekiss does take 103% min from Flare Blitz), and putting out generic damage to almost everything in a very similar manner to Tapu Koko, as well as providing two weaknesses of usually procless moves that Dragon/Fighting easily takes, Kommo-o seemed poised to find Soulblazeable field states in its wake.

The team needed a resident Fairy-killer plus solid Steel-type (which given that Mawile and Primarina are the top dangers from that type, isn't quite as straightforward as you'd assume), because not having a Steel directly loses you 300 Elo. In all seriousness, nothing else can boast of a physical Earth Power/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt coverage, serviceable speed even outside of Tailwind (more relevant for expiration rather than lack of setting here), and the ability to survive a super-effective hit in most circumstances even uninvested. I do now think that Metagross needs to be Adamant for this team (but perhaps not cutting down Speed too much other than that), due to calcs like Ice Punch vs. scarfed Rotom-Fan which outruns Flareon and seems to show up with Mawile on Punk Guys all the time. The main competition for this slot would be Scizor, which lacks coverage; I considered that so important here that I didn't even run Protect, which would have helped me in the eventual loss, but have lost me a battle before that one; wholly anecdotal, perhaps, but with Whimsicott essentially sacrificing the coverage of one full pokémon slot, and Flareon weak to Waters and Grounds for which I'd need "Boltbeam", and Tantrum important for a chance against Mawile3, I didn't think I could compromise on four attacks.

Videos
------
#143 -- Loss (Greninja4 / Weavile4 from Razville, "what else", Aerodactyl4 seals it against a lone +1 Kommo-o). Murkier than the previous one, funnily -- maybe I play more attentively with worse teams. That said, the Whimsicott switch can be noted as a misplay, I think: I expected Night Slash into Metagross to occur if not always, then with a much greater likelihood than Taunt, but you ignore Taunt at your peril; I tried to save the entire team, instead of accepting the loss of one member (not counting Whimsicott), and that backfired -- instead, should have switched Meta->Kommo letting Flareon die to the only turn on which Hydro Pump was certainly more likely than Blizzard, and then bring Whimsi to TW+Protect, followed by Soulblaze + Iron Head for a 2-2 in Tailwind and a likely win (in this case, would have been one, +1 CC to Jolteon34 and Iron Head to Aerodactyl4). 8DSW-WWWW-WWWT-RTU4

#117 -- A bit of a better Flareon showcase, a Sun trainer with (backline) Infernape (neither of these are an easy matchup for this team, either, as Flareon does not actually resist Flare Blitz in the sun and Fake Out threatens me T1, Infernape being unique in that it can also hit everyone else for big damage from CC). 53AW-WWWW-WWWT-RUXE -- posted on Discord some days ago, but currently not online due to upload limit of 10 videos. You can always ask if you want.


Thanks to those especially who gave me some of the pokémon (or their ancestors) featured on these streaks: Smuckem (uh, spoilers, these have yet to make their debut), Eisenherz (Heatran, Ralts, Ekans, and several more, including a 6IV Ditto), PikaCuber (HA Eevee) and wadusher (Jolly Kartana, which has finally replaced the Hasty one I've been using for almost two years), as well as the Japanese trainer I'll never know who gave me a Timid Latias reject via GTS.

More later...
 
Last edited:

Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
With my recent streak loss, I decided to look into the I've done a few tests regarding double Trick Room leads, to try and find any consistencies with who sets Trick Room in these scenarios. I've tried two tests, mostly cause I got a little bit bored with testing, and I'm not really sure what else to test at this point, besides more examples.

Both tests were against Scientist Robyn, with the lead of Carbink3 and Oranguru3. In all test battles, I used only Protect in order to not influence the AI as much as possible through damage dealt by me.

In the first test, I wanted to test the idea of having something slower than one of the Trick Room setters, but faster than the other, a problem I've faced with Charjabug on my team and I'm not fully sure with how to fix or deal with this scenario. Specifically, Carbink3 was the Trick Room user that I felt my team had the biggest issue with, which is why I chose this pair for testing. Prior to the test, I always thought that the slower Trick Room user would be the only one that would set Trick Room, as the AI wouldn't see the faster Pokemon as needing Trick Room to outspeed at least something on the player's team.

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 10 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Icy Wind
- Protect

Charjabug @ Eviolite
Ability: Battery
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 124 Def / 132 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 28 SpA
- String Shot
- Substitute
- X-Scissor
- Protect

Speed Order: Gengar (178), Oranguru (72), Charjabug (37), Carbink (31)
Only logged Turn 1 unless otherwise stated

1. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
2. TR/Psychic into Gengar
3. TR/Psychic into Gengar
4. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
5. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar
6. TR/Psychic into Gengar
7. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar
8. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
9. TR/Psychic into Gengar
10. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
11. TR/Psychic into Gengar
12. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar T2: TR/Psychic into Gengar
13. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar T2: TR/Psychic into Gengar
14. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
15. TR/Psychic into Gengar
16. TR/Psychic into Gengar
17. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
18. TR/Psychic into Gengar
19. TR/Psychic into Gengar
20. TR/Psychic into Gengar
21. TR/Psychic into Gengar
22. TR/Psychic into Gengar
23. TR/Psychic into Gengar
24. TR/Psychic into Gengar
25. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
26. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
27. Power Gem into Charjabug/TR
28. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar T2: TR/Psychic into Gengar
29. TR/Psychic into Gengar
30. Power Gem into Charjabug/Psychic into Gengar T2: Power Gem into Charjabug/TR

Results:
TR/Psychic into Gengar: 15 times
Power Gem into Charjabug/TR: 9
Double Attack: 6

About half the time, my statement above held true, with the Pokemon slower than Charjabug setting up Trick Room, as expected. However, a good amount of the time, the AI did have the faster Oranguru set Trick Room instead, so I don't see any immediate conclusions with this. A few times though, the AI did choose to not set Trick Room the first turn, and after seeing it twice, I wanted to see what would happen the following turn, again using double Protect to see what happens. Every time, Trick Room did come up, and a majority of the time, it followed the statement that I had said prior to my test.

The second test I had was to see who would set up Trick Room with both of the player's Pokemon faster than both of the opposing Trick Room setters. This is probably the more likely scenario for most people trying to go through the Battle Tree, as very few people I've seen will specifically lead one fast Pokemon and one slow Pokemon for the Battle Tree, unless their team is specifically slow like other Trick Room teams. This time, I had no idea what to expect and just went in blind, trying to see any sort of pattern.

Pelipper @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Tailwind
- Protect

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Def
- Fake Out
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Speed Order: Pikachu (142), Pelipper (117), Oranguru (72), Carbink (31)
Only logged Turn 1 unless otherwise stated

1. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
2. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
3. Power Gem/TR (Likely Pelipper, but missed message)
4. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
5. TR/Psychic (Missed message)
6. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
7. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
8. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
9. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
10. TR/Psychic (Missed message)
11. TR/Psychic (Missed message)
12. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
13. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
14. Power Gem into Pikachu/TR
15. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
16. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
17. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
18. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
19. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
20. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
21. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
22. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
23. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
24. Dazzling Gleam/TR
25. TR/Psychic into Pikachu
26. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
27. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR
28. TR/Psychic into Pelipper
29. Dazzling Gleam/TR
30. Power Gem into Pelipper/TR

Results:
Carbink setting Trick Room: 18
Oranguru setting Trick Room: 12

There seemed to be no consistency with who would set up Trick Room in this scenario, with both Trick Room setters setting up Trick Room about an even amount of times. However, Carbink set it up a few more times, and my only theory regarding this is that Oranguru had a potential KO onto Pikachu, which is why it wasn't the one to set up Trick Room. More testing would be needed before this can be in any way confirmed as normal, though based on these results, there won't really be any sort of standard behavior.

While more testing will be needed, something I don't know if I will do myself, these two tests resulted in me coming up with a few theories regarding AI behavior when they have two Trick Room users active at once, and Trick Room not being up.

If the Trick Room setters are faster than your slowest Pokemon, they won't set Trick Room.

This is the statement I first heard from Worldie, when I was trying to improve my Gengar/Charjabug team and voicing out random thoughts on Discord. It's also mentioned in Smuckem's post right above me regarding the issue of double Trick Room setter leads. Worldie told me that his Gigalith indirectly prevented Trick Room from the AI, and after a little bit of adjustment on my team, I found this statement to be true in my experiences, in the Charjabug team, my Z-Snatch team, with a Level 1 Riolu, and my own Trick Room team. This is the only statement here that is borderline fact, and one that I would completely support.

The one that can do the most damage won't set Trick Room.

I've sometimes considered this to be the reasoning for who sets up Trick Room, as often times I see Gengar taken out really early in the battle or Audino4 goes for a Z-Fire Blast into Charjabug. While those two scenarios are usually only in the case of there being one Trick Room setter in the lead, the logic applies to my test, as both times the most damaging option, Psychic from Oranguru3 onto Gengar or Pikachu, a guaranteed OHKO on the former and a chance to KO on the latter, supports this statement. I want to try out some Rock-weak lead in against this pair in the future, to see if Oranguru3 becomes the one to set Trick Room more often because the AI would want to hit the Rock-weak Pokemon with a Power Gem from Carbink3.

The slower one will set Trick Room.

This is the statement that I have always thought was true, up until I decided to test it recently, only to find it somewhat false. While it can be true, based on my tests above, I believe that it is based other factors as well, such as the second statement I've said. This is the one I'm most unsure of, and I honestly believe this might be proven to be false with a little more testing.

As of right now, I can do these same tests onto a few other lead pairs that I currently have a Battle Video recorded for, but this would take a lot of time and effort from me. I probably will get around to them eventually, but I honestly want to improve the teams I have at the moment, or move further along the Battle Tree, maybe up to 200. But, I could put some tests on a bit of priority, if other people are interested, and I have time to do them.

Cofagrigus3/Slowbro4
Carbink3/Oranguru3
Cofagrigus3/Carbink3
Audino4/Musharna2
Cofagrigus3/Jellicent3
Aromatisse4/Dusknoir4

And if anyone is curious on the speeds of Trick Room setters, to try and make whatever lead they are using slower than the Trick Room setters, I made a list of speed tiers before that can be helpful in finding empty speed tiers regarding Trick Room users. Keep in mind this ignores opposing Trick Room abusers and such, in which case you should refer to the main list of speed tiers.

TR Setters

Jellicent3 - 72
Oranguru3 - 72
Audino4 - 70
Dusknoir4 - 58
Bronzong1 - 53
Gourgeist2 - 52
Slowking1 - 50
Cofagrigus3 - 50
Musharna2 - 49
Bronzong4 - 47
Cresselia4 - 47
Reuniclus2 - 45
Slowbro4 - 45
Slowking4 - 45
Aromatisse4 - 44
Trevenant4 - 34
Carbink3 - 31
Dusknoir2 - 29

There's also one more AI behavior I'd like to learn about, which is Earthquake and other spread move usage. For me, I mainly want to know about Earthquake, if anyone knows anything. It's basically already known that the AI will use spread moves when their partner is immune to that move, such as Earthquake next to a Flying type, but I'm more curious about instances when the partner isn't immune to it. I've seen several battles where the AI went straight for an Earthquake, despite hitting their ally for a decent chunk of health, just so they could KO my Gengar or Pikachu, depending on what team I'm using. It's really inconsistent and I honestly have no idea how I can test this, or even figure things out. If someone knows anything, please let me know, as it would help me and probably a few other people here as well.
I decided to follow up on this using my current runs in Ultra Moon as an example. So, I went and captured a sample battle featuring Trevenent4/Dusknoir4 as leads; if anyone wants to play around with it themselves, they're free to check out:
WUKG-WWWW-WWWU-4VBV (vs. Tivon, Trevenant4/Dusknoir4/Carbink4/Conkeldurr3) -- this particular team I'm using actually could have been able to more carefully survive the TR period, and fairly easily. However, the random targeting by Trevenant and the unexpected targeting by Conkeldurr made this tighter than it needed to be. At least I made the proper opening play...

With this in hand, I decided to carry out some tests, a using a small number of random captures, Imperfects, and one of my finer creations to try and dissect the TR behavioral patterns of these opponents.

Test #1: One Lead Slower, One Lead Faster (FEAR Variant)

I replayed this ten times with the Lvl.14 in-game trade Noibat and ten more with a Lvl.4 Buneary I randomly caught during my in-game playthrough. Each of these were accompanied by:

'Hurrrrrrrrrr' (Tornadus) (M) (Lvl.100) @ Life Orb (thanks to SadisticMystic)
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Timid
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hurricane

In all cases, both opponents attacked, never bothering with TR; while Dusknoir tended to go Never-Ending Nightmare, twice it simply went with Shadow Sneak; Trevenant always went Shadow Ball with Noibat and Focus Blast on Buneary. It seems that baitmons could still work to deal TR setting for as long as the bait's there, at least.

Test #2: Both Leads Faster

For the next set of tests, I brought in two Psychic-types, curious to see if the defensive typing would be enough to perhaps dissuade TR usage:

Cerebus'Bite (Azelf) (Lvl.100) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt


Jalal'sMane (Mesprit) (Lvl.100) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 6 Spe
- Psychic
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Protect

However, there's no question that gaining the speed advantage is still a big priority for the AI, as TR was set every time:
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant

When not setting, Dusknoir always used Pain Split and Trevenant always used Shadow Ball, although both were pretty random about who they targeted in these cases. Note that setting duty was evenly split between the two in this set of instances; though this sample size is way too small to start making grand statements with, is it possible that the AI legitimately selects who sets based on some coin flip command?

Test #3: Both Leads Slower, More or Less

To add some nuance, I next brought in two TRmons; intentionally brought in to underspeed Dusknoir4 (58 Spe) and to partly underspeed Trevenant4 (34 Spe):


EliteBell (Bronzong) (Lvl.50) @ Iron Ball
Ability: Heatproof
Nature: Brave
IVs: 31/31/31/0/31/0 (34 Spe)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
- Trick Room
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Explosion


'Hiiragi' (Golisopod) (F) (Lvl.51) @ Muscle Band (thanks to ReptoAbysmal)
Ability: Emergency Exit
Nature: Brave
40 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SDef
- First Impression
- Aqua Jet
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide

The AI never bothered to set TR here either: as has been reported by others on here, EliteBell underspeeding both opponents, or perhaps Trevenant seeing that it could commit major damage to EliteBell (though even with a crit, it's a guaranteed 2HKO with Shadow Ball) was sufficient to dissuade setting, even though Hiiragi outspeeds Trevenant4. I was curious to see what a speed tie would do to change things, so I did ten replays under these settings and ten with the Bell's Iron Ball removed (without the Ball, it ties with Trev4). This did not change things: Dusknoir went for Pain Split, Trevenant went mostly for Shadow Ball (although random targeting on both leads) and Energy Ball on Golisopod four-five times. So, the "slowest Pokemon prevents TR" theory Worldie and PikaCuber have postulated has more data supporting it here. It also provides more evidence that individual setters only take account for their own speed matchups with the opponents and not their ally's.

Test #4: One Lead Slower, One Lead Faster (Standard Variant)

To see if the above theory could apply when one of the leads used was clearly faster than both opposing setters, EliteBell and Hurrrrrrrr were both brought back for a final set of twenty replays. The slower EliteBell totally neutered setting once again: Trevenant did nothing but Shadow Ball random targets once again, Dusknoir either Pain Split random targets, went for Never-Ending Nightmare three-four times (mostly on EliteBell, but once on Hurrrrrrrr), and bizarrely went for Z-Destiny Bond once.

Based on what I have seen here, the secret sauce to stopping the TR overall, although obviously being more vital in the case of double setters, is simply to bring along one sufficiently slow, puny baitmon or one slow, fat fuck of a bulkymon. You don't even need to run TR! (not that I dissuade you from doing so.)
 
I'm glad you were able to test that my theory is pretty much correct.

If you're particularly bored, you could check the part 2 of my theory as well. I'd do it myself but I have basically benched both my DS by now as I accepted I'm terrible at tree and will wait gen 8 to attempt again most likely.
It would be "If TR is up and you are slower than enemy, AI will attempt to revert it next turn". You happened to find a relatively low danger double TR setter, so getting TR up turn 1 should be pretty easy as neither can realistically Hax both your leads, expecially if you go by with a Scrappy Fake out of sort.

I'm mostly curious if this would be a consistent behavior, or a "possible but erratic" one, as we've all definitely seen it happen a few times.
 
I decided to follow up on this using my current runs in Ultra Moon as an example. So, I went and captured a sample battle featuring Trevenent4/Dusknoir4 as leads; if anyone wants to play around with it themselves, they're free to check out:
WUKG-WWWW-WWWU-4VBV (vs. Tivon, Trevenant4/Dusknoir4/Carbink4/Conkeldurr3) -- this particular team I'm using actually could have been able to more carefully survive the TR period, and fairly easily. However, the random targeting by Trevenant and the unexpected targeting by Conkeldurr made this tighter than it needed to be. At least I made the proper opening play...

With this in hand, I decided to carry out some tests, a using a small number of random captures, Imperfects, and one of my finer creations to try and dissect the TR behavioral patterns of these opponents.

Test #1: One Lead Slower, One Lead Faster (FEAR Variant)

I replayed this ten times with the Lvl.14 in-game trade Noibat and ten more with a Lvl.4 Buneary I randomly caught during my in-game playthrough. Each of these were accompanied by:

'Hurrrrrrrrrr' (Tornadus) (M) (Lvl.100) @ Life Orb (thanks to SadisticMystic)
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Timid
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hurricane

In all cases, both opponents attacked, never bothering with TR; while Dusknoir tended to go Never-Ending Nightmare, twice it simply went with Shadow Sneak; Trevenant always went Shadow Ball with Noibat and Focus Blast on Buneary. It seems that baitmons could still work to deal TR setting for as long as the bait's there, at least.

Test #2: Both Leads Faster

For the next set of tests, I brought in two Psychic-types, curious to see if the defensive typing would be enough to perhaps dissuade TR usage:

Cerebus'Bite (Azelf) (Lvl.100) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt


Jalal'sMane (Mesprit) (Lvl.100) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 6 Spe
- Psychic
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Protect

However, there's no question that gaining the speed advantage is still a big priority for the AI, as TR was set every time:
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant
- Trevenant
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Dusknoir
- Trevenant

When not setting, Dusknoir always used Pain Split and Trevenant always used Shadow Ball, although both were pretty random about who they targeted in these cases. Note that setting duty was evenly split between the two in this set of instances; though this sample size is way too small to start making grand statements with, is it possible that the AI legitimately selects who sets based on some coin flip command?

Test #3: Both Leads Slower, More or Less

To add some nuance, I next brought in two TRmons; intentionally brought in to underspeed Dusknoir4 (58 Spe) and to partly underspeed Trevenant4 (34 Spe):


EliteBell (Bronzong) (Lvl.50) @ Iron Ball
Ability: Heatproof
Nature: Brave
IVs: 31/31/31/0/31/0 (34 Spe)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
- Trick Room
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Explosion


'Hiiragi' (Golisopod) (F) (Lvl.51) @ Muscle Band (thanks to ReptoAbysmal)
Ability: Emergency Exit
Nature: Brave
40 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SDef
- First Impression
- Aqua Jet
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide

The AI never bothered to set TR here either: as has been reported by others on here, EliteBell underspeeding both opponents, or perhaps Trevenant seeing that it could commit major damage to EliteBell (though even with a crit, it's a guaranteed 2HKO with Shadow Ball) was sufficient to dissuade setting, even though Hiiragi outspeeds Trevenant4. I was curious to see what a speed tie would do to change things, so I did ten replays under these settings and ten with the Bell's Iron Ball removed (without the Ball, it ties with Trev4). This did not change things: Dusknoir went for Pain Split, Trevenant went mostly for Shadow Ball (although random targeting on both leads) and Energy Ball on Golisopod four-five times. So, the "slowest Pokemon prevents TR" theory Worldie and PikaCuber have postulated has more data supporting it here. It also provides more evidence that individual setters only take account for their own speed matchups with the opponents and not their ally's.

Test #4: One Lead Slower, One Lead Faster (Standard Variant)

To see if the above theory could apply when one of the leads used was clearly faster than both opposing setters, EliteBell and Hurrrrrrrr were both brought back for a final set of twenty replays. The slower EliteBell totally neutered setting once again: Trevenant did nothing but Shadow Ball random targets once again, Dusknoir either Pain Split random targets, went for Never-Ending Nightmare three-four times (mostly on EliteBell, but once on Hurrrrrrrr), and bizarrely went for Z-Destiny Bond once.

Based on what I have seen here, the secret sauce to stopping the TR overall, although obviously being more vital in the case of double setters, is simply to bring along one sufficiently slow, puny baitmon or one slow, fat fuck of a bulkymon. You don't even need to run TR! (not that I dissuade you from doing so.)
Looking at this, I wonder if what you lead influences who would set Trick Room, specifically like you had in your second test. If you had two different leads, with different super effective targets, would there be a consistent pattern in who would set Trick Room. Cause when I tested it out with 2 leads faster than both Trick Room setters, I didn't get quite as even of a split as you did, which may mean there is a slight bias, maybe a weighted coin flip. So something like a Dragon type and a Normal type against Aromatisse and Dusknoir, or something like that. Basically, one setter has a super effective target on only one of your Pokemon, the other has no super effective moves against either leads. I would think that Dusknoir would be more likely to set up Trick Room in that scenario, but that's just a theory, and I don't have the time to test that out this week.

Though that still leaves the awkward scenario where one lead is faster than both Trick Room setters, while the other sits in the middle, speed wise, between the two setters. Really weird still that I saw some scenarios where the AI didn't set up Trick Room until Turn 2. But, your post does help clarify some of my thoughts, good to see that my work towards getting a new Charjabug wasn't fully in vain.
 

Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
Worldie PikaCuber the cool thing about it is that, with the Bronzong/Golisopod in place, I can test both things out relatively easily; I just need a good chunk of time to test the resetting TR scenario out (it took me about two-and-a-half hours yesterday to compile this data) and the appropriate partner for the awkward test (but hey, I have this Speed Boost Scolipede based off of Boss Trainer Carlen's Scoli for reasons).

So yes, I will explore both questions in due time. You two just continue being lazy/busy.
 

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
Orange Islands
Okay, so I guess I should finally post here.

I've been working on trying to get Shuckle to 50 wins in Super Doubles. You may think I am crazy, and at this point I am feeling like I am too.

The first attempt at the team was probably very flukey. I threw some mons together I had and a Battle Spot Shuckle from Theorymon which I had bred for him. Shuckle/Gyarados/Magneton/Mega Heracross. I was using webs/rock tomb from Shuckle in order to speed control opponents and give space for Gyarados and Heracross to do work. I needed a Flying/Electric resist, so Eviolite Magneton popped into the back line. Obvious issue here was speed, so I tended to struggle with the first two mons on the field (especially with fast electrics), but ground them down most of the time. I managed to wobble my way up to 43 wins. I tried out a few other teams (and getting some more BP) before going back to Shuckle. I tried it out with mega Kangaskhan but that faltered around battle 20 to some haxy bullshit.

I started looking deeper into Shuckle's other options, and turskain mentioned it got String Shot. Over the gens, String Shot has gotten numerous buffs, now being a both opponent -2 speed debuff. There was one large problem here. Shuckle only gets String Shot from the HGSS Move Tutor pools. As it happened, I had like 21 bp from other streaks/play time. I grinded out the next 11BP I needed, grabbed the gift Shuckle from Cianwood and then proceeded to transfer it up. It stopped off in OR to Blissey Base train it up to 100 so I could bottle cap it when it finally reached Sun. I then needed to Ability Capsule it (luckily I had plenty of BP for all this now) to get Sturdy.

I was confident with the other members of the team. I got another Magneton, and evolved it. This gave me more special firepower (Magneton annoyingly missed a few KOs). I'm still not sure if Eviolite or normal Zone is bulkier though.

The new and improved team faltered at 39 wins after meeting with Sina. The team is below:


Shuckie (Shuckle) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
31/x/31/x/31/x (Triple Bottle Cap)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- String Shot
- Rock Tomb
- Sticky Web
- Power Split

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sturdy
31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: no idea rn, I think its max spcl attack/max speed
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Metal Sound

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts -> Skill Link
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Counter

I keep forgetting to get Bullet Seed on Mega Heracross (definitely will fix that for my next attempt) and I feel like I might try out something different (item wise) on Magnezone. I'm unlikely to spend the effort to breed for HP Ice/Grass so let's ignore that. General premise is Gyarados puts dents in something while Shuckle throws down a String Shot. If there is a scary Electric on the field, Gyarados swaps out to Magnezone (though I may be tempted to try out Raichu/other Volt Absorb or Lightning Rod etc in that slot to ignore electric completely). Magnezone also helps pressure Fairy types which can mess with Heracross badly.

Apparently Sina has ended more than her fair share of runs. Mine was purely one mistake and a lot of hax. Oranguru with Electrium Z means I was forced to switch out Gyarados for Magnezone. The incoming blizzard froze Magnezone while Shuckle Power Splitted. After Magnezone went down to Focus Blast, in came Mega Heracross. I felt like I could still win from this point... Sina made short work of that idea. I (for some reason) decided to Pin Missile Oranguru (whereas it should have gone into Abomasnow) which then got the dreaded double freeze. It was all over from then. Drampa came in along side Blizzard spam and that was all she wrote.

7M9G-WWWW-WWWU-6LW3 - Utter destruction in Pokemon form

Replay above. It took me two attempts to win the fight with the same team (the first attempt also got Magnezone frozen, but I power splitted Abomasnow to take its edge off). Drampa came in and wrecked shop in this match. The third attempt went super smoothly, no freeze, Abomasnow went down to Magnezone, Heracross came in and cleaned up.

Main threats at the moment are powerful/fast Electric types mostly and I can play around most others. Espeon can be troublesome, as well as other potent special attackers. Shuckle can only be really taken down by concentrated attacks, which causes the AI to misplay horribly more often than not. Rotom is always scary. All versions are a pain to get rid of. As it happens, freeze hax doesn't like me much either. Shuckle blocks the AI from setting up trick room the majority of the time (even though they would be quicker after String Shot/Sticky Webs). Power Split helps neutralize a lot of scary Pokemon. In one match I power Splitted Rhyperior and 3HKO'd its team mate Gyarados with Rock Tomb. Definitely an awesome move to help out my team.

T1 choices are always hard in doubles, but I am using Power Split on T1 more often now as opposed to going directly for the string shot. Both are awesome moves and the power boost Shuckle get's is usually very noticeable. I'm pretty hopeful this team is going to finally get me to 50. I've learnt a lot through this streak and I hope it will help me out in the future.
 
Okay, so I guess I should finally post here.

I've been working on trying to get Shuckle to 50 wins in Super Doubles. You may think I am crazy, and at this point I am feeling like I am too.

The first attempt at the team was probably very flukey. I threw some mons together I had and a Battle Spot Shuckle from Theorymon which I had bred for him. Shuckle/Gyarados/Magneton/Mega Heracross. I was using webs/rock tomb from Shuckle in order to speed control opponents and give space for Gyarados and Heracross to do work. I needed a Flying/Electric resist, so Eviolite Magneton popped into the back line. Obvious issue here was speed, so I tended to struggle with the first two mons on the field (especially with fast electrics), but ground them down most of the time. I managed to wobble my way up to 43 wins. I tried out a few other teams (and getting some more BP) before going back to Shuckle. I tried it out with mega Kangaskhan but that faltered around battle 20 to some haxy bullshit.

I started looking deeper into Shuckle's other options, and turskain mentioned it got String Shot. Over the gens, String Shot has gotten numerous buffs, now being a both opponent -2 speed debuff. There was one large problem here. Shuckle only gets String Shot from the HGSS Move Tutor pools. As it happened, I had like 21 bp from other streaks/play time. I grinded out the next 11BP I needed, grabbed the gift Shuckle from Cianwood and then proceeded to transfer it up. It stopped off in OR to Blissey Base train it up to 100 so I could bottle cap it when it finally reached Sun. I then needed to Ability Capsule it (luckily I had plenty of BP for all this now) to get Sturdy.

I was confident with the other members of the team. I got another Magneton, and evolved it. This gave me more special firepower (Magneton annoyingly missed a few KOs). I'm still not sure if Eviolite or normal Zone is bulkier though.

The new and improved team faltered at 39 wins after meeting with Sina. The team is below:


Shuckie (Shuckle) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
31/x/31/x/31/x (Triple Bottle Cap)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- String Shot
- Rock Tomb
- Sticky Web
- Power Split

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sturdy
31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: no idea rn, I think its max spcl attack/max speed
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Metal Sound

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts -> Skill Link
31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Counter

I keep forgetting to get Bullet Seed on Mega Heracross (definitely will fix that for my next attempt) and I feel like I might try out something different (item wise) on Magnezone. I'm unlikely to spend the effort to breed for HP Ice/Grass so let's ignore that. General premise is Gyarados puts dents in something while Shuckle throws down a String Shot. If there is a scary Electric on the field, Gyarados swaps out to Magnezone (though I may be tempted to try out Raichu/other Volt Absorb or Lightning Rod etc in that slot to ignore electric completely). Magnezone also helps pressure Fairy types which can mess with Heracross badly.

Apparently Sina has ended more than her fair share of runs. Mine was purely one mistake and a lot of hax. Oranguru with Electrium Z means I was forced to switch out Gyarados for Magnezone. The incoming blizzard froze Magnezone while Shuckle Power Splitted. After Magnezone went down to Focus Blast, in came Mega Heracross. I felt like I could still win from this point... Sina made short work of that idea. I (for some reason) decided to Pin Missile Oranguru (whereas it should have gone into Abomasnow) which then got the dreaded double freeze. It was all over from then. Drampa came in along side Blizzard spam and that was all she wrote.

7M9G-WWWW-WWWU-6LW3 - Utter destruction in Pokemon form

Replay above. It took me two attempts to win the fight with the same team (the first attempt also got Magnezone frozen, but I power splitted Abomasnow to take its edge off). Drampa came in and wrecked shop in this match. The third attempt went super smoothly, no freeze, Abomasnow went down to Magnezone, Heracross came in and cleaned up.

Main threats at the moment are powerful/fast Electric types mostly and I can play around most others. Espeon can be troublesome, as well as other potent special attackers. Shuckle can only be really taken down by concentrated attacks, which causes the AI to misplay horribly more often than not. Rotom is always scary. All versions are a pain to get rid of. As it happens, freeze hax doesn't like me much either. Shuckle blocks the AI from setting up trick room the majority of the time (even though they would be quicker after String Shot/Sticky Webs). Power Split helps neutralize a lot of scary Pokemon. In one match I power Splitted Rhyperior and 3HKO'd its team mate Gyarados with Rock Tomb. Definitely an awesome move to help out my team.

T1 choices are always hard in doubles, but I am using Power Split on T1 more often now as opposed to going directly for the string shot. Both are awesome moves and the power boost Shuckle get's is usually very noticeable. I'm pretty hopeful this team is going to finally get me to 50. I've learnt a lot through this streak and I hope it will help me out in the future.
Nah, I don't think you're crazy. I believe you can make any Pkm work in Battle Tree.
Now, as for your team, I'd suggest to use Protect on some Pkm so that they don't have to take a hit at first before Shuckle reduces the Speed of faster opposing Pkm. Apropos Shuckle, I'm not really sure if it really needs Rock Tomb. You already have so much Speed control with Sticky Webs and String Shot. Instead of Rock Tomb you could use Toxic/Protect/Struggle Bug/Encore.
As for Heracross, I don't think Counter is that useful. It's very relient on your prediction, so I'd suggest Protect or Bullet Seed to deal with bulky Water or Ground Pkm.
Gyarados is fine, but you could replace Crunch with Protect or Earth Quake. Magnezone doesn't need Thunderwave as you have enough Speed control. Protect would be a good option.
 
Though not my best composition, this team brought me to 231 wins, 20 less than with Naganadel. (I need to find something that involves hyper offense soon)
But, it's still pretty decent, so I thought I could share it.

THE ROCK (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

My overview: Incineroar, though not the fastest Fake Out user, is very useful to use when paired with Latios, allowing it to take physical and special hits thanks to its Assault Vest. Fake Out also allows Latios to get off its nuke (Z-Move) for free. Flare Blitz is a great STAB move to use, however comes with the drawback of causing recoil damage. Knock Off is a good STAB move to use as well and provides great utility by knocking off items off of opponents. Finally, Low Kick is good to use for coverage options, however, I do not know what's better to use on Incineroar. 252 HP and 4 Def allows Incineroar to take hits better while an Adamant Nature and 252 Atk allows it to hit as hard as possible.

Counters:
Ground-types: Ground-types can carry Earthquake can really mess up Incineroar, however, some are not bulky enough to live a Devastating Drake from Latios. Those who can live a Devastating Drake, though, can use their STAB moves on Incineroar. Nidoqueen, Hippowdon, and Landorus are prime examples.

Water-types: Suicune, Slowbro, and Wishiwashi are bulky Water-types that can live a Knock Off and hit back with a strong Water-type attack, like Scald or Hydro Pump. Politoed, in particular, can set up the rain sometimes with its ability by random chance, Drizzle.

Latias (Latios) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

My overview: Like the name? Because I do. Latios is a strong attacker in Doubles and I feel like people really underestimate it. Especially that Devastating Drake powered up by a Draco Meteor. That really hurts. Psychic is a good STAB option to spam around to hit Fighting-types that Incineroar can't handle, like Terrakion. Thunderbolt is the coverage option that I chose because nothing particularly targets Water-type Pokemon. Protect is used because, well, it's Doubles, dammit. 252 SpA and 252 Spe, along with a Timid Nature is used to allow Latios to be super fast and hit very hard, while giving the rest of the EV Spread to SpD.

Counters:
Dark-types: Bisharp can Sucker Punch Latios to oblivion. Tyranitar and Weavile aren't Sucker Punchers, but they can easily prove to become a big problem. Dark-type coverage can also be a problem to deal with as well, like Dark Pulse Heatran. (Who TF runs that)

Trick Room: Speed is definitely one of Latios best traits, but it can also become its worst during Trick Room. Audino, Cofagrigus, and Reuniclus are notable Pokemon that can take a hit and set up Trick Room.

Fairy-types: Florges can easily eat a hit and strike back with Moonblast. Aromatisse is one Fairy-type in particular that can set up Trick Room.

Mega Gengar: Regular Gengar is okay to deal with but Mega Gengar is definitely one of the most threatening Pokemon to face despite being super frail. It especially becomes a problem once Incineroar is out of the picture, with Thunderbolt for Tapu Fini, and Shadow Ball for both Mega Metagross and Latios. And as if that wasn't enough, Destiny Bond, boi.

Mist (Tapu Fini) @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Moonblast
- Protect

My overview: Tapu Fini is definitely a very strange Fairy-type to use on this team but it works very well. Though Misty Terrain weakens Devastating Drake if Latios were to use it, it also prevents status conditions from being spurred upon the team. Muddy Water is a good spammable option to use to lower accuracy. Moonblast is that secondary STAB move to possibly lower the foe's Special Attack stat. Ice Beam is a good coverage move to use alongside Muddy Water and Moonblast and though it may seem strange to use, it hits Garchomp, Landorus, and other Dragons harder and also hits Amoonguss. Protect allows to scout and punish attackers into Tapu Fini's slot. A Calm Nature along with mixed defenses can allow Tapu Fini to take Electric-type attacks much better.

Counters:
Electric-types: Even if it can take one, that doesn't mean it can take a lot of them without taking massive damage. Zapdos, Thundurus, and Raikou are huge mentions. Raikou is the biggest problem to this team, as it has access to Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt and can boost with Calm Mind.

Grass-types: Amoonguss can be a pain to deal with and is the main Grass-type to watch out for. Others like Virizion, Mega Venusaur, and Rotom-M can really do a ton of damage to it with their super effective STAB options. Rotom-M can also paralyze it if its Misty Terrain is down.

Stomping Gigabyte (Metagross-Mega) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
- Ice Punch
- Protect

My overview: Mega Metagross is a ridiculously powerful Pokemon to use in Doubles, and fits the D/S/F core very well. A Jolly Nature with 252 EVs in both Atk and Spe allows Mega Metagross to be very fast and hit hard, while the rest of the EVs go into SpD, because I'm lazy. Iron Head is the best STAB move for Mega Metagross to use as it has a good chance to flinch an opponent. Stomping Tantrum, while not as powerful as Earthquake, gets a Tough Claws boost and Ice Punch is a good coverage option to have. Protect is there because it's f*cking Doubles.

Counters:
Ground-types: Man, the same problems as Incineroar. Just go to Incineroar's post.

Fire-types: Actually, speaking of Incineroar, that's one of the very few Pokemon that actually demolishes Mega Metagross to the ground. Entei, Moltres, Scarf Typhlosion and Mega Charizard X and Y can mess Mega Metagross up and break its coding.

Steel-types: Steel-types seem to wall Mega Metagross very well, like most Steel-type Megas, namely Mega Aggron and Mega Metagross. Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor also seem to do very well against it too.


LOSS: S8WW-WWWW-WWWU-8899
-----


Alright, that's it. Still, can someone recommend me some Hyper Offense Pokemon, that seems to be my best playstyle. I ain't a Brain, but I guess I'm a Brawn, I guess that's not a good thing. I dunno.
 
Alright, that's it. Still, can someone recommend me some Hyper Offense Pokemon, that seems to be my best playstyle. I ain't a Brain, but I guess I'm a Brawn, I guess that's not a good thing. I dunno.
As I said at the time, Rain possibly the easiest hyperoffense composition you can run really, aside from maybe pherolelegross core.

Koko, Pelipper, M-Swampert, X of your choice. You can even go full rain using stuff like Ludicolo in that place.

Otherwise you could try to run my ChariY+scarferuption comp but really it's prone to RNG very hard so unless you're me i don't recommend that.


p.s. personal favorite: ditch leftovers on fini and run wide lens Icy Wind. Be a real man.
 
As I said at the time, Rain possibly the easiest hyperoffense composition you can run really, aside from maybe pherolelegross core.

Koko, Pelipper, M-Swampert, X of your choice. You can even go full rain using stuff like Ludicolo in that place.

Otherwise you could try to run my ChariY+scarferuption comp but really it's prone to RNG very hard so unless you're me i don't recommend that.


p.s. personal favorite: ditch leftovers on fini and run wide lens Icy Wind. Be a real man.
Tbh, I don't really understand how people get to like 1000 with Rain teams (Koko, Pelipper, M-Swampert or a Steel-type), Charizard Y + Scarferuption seems too strange for me and hell naw, I'm not running Icy Wind with Wide Lens, dammit. xD

Hell, I might start going back to Gen 4 and run Disquake with Zapdos and Garchomp or Landorus. (Incarnate or Therian?)
 
"people". Aside from veterans, you aint finding anyone at 1000 wins, and reaching 1000 wins is less a matter of team composition and more a matter of experience / solid decision making.
 
Though not my best composition, this team brought me to 231 wins, 20 less than with Naganadel. (I need to find something that involves hyper offense soon)
But, it's still pretty decent, so I thought I could share it.

THE ROCK (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

My overview: Incineroar, though not the fastest Fake Out user, is very useful to use when paired with Latios, allowing it to take physical and special hits thanks to its Assault Vest. Fake Out also allows Latios to get off its nuke (Z-Move) for free. Flare Blitz is a great STAB move to use, however comes with the drawback of causing recoil damage. Knock Off is a good STAB move to use as well and provides great utility by knocking off items off of opponents. Finally, Low Kick is good to use for coverage options, however, I do not know what's better to use on Incineroar. 252 HP and 4 Def allows Incineroar to take hits better while an Adamant Nature and 252 Atk allows it to hit as hard as possible.

Counters:
Ground-types: Ground-types can carry Earthquake can really mess up Incineroar, however, some are not bulky enough to live a Devastating Drake from Latios. Those who can live a Devastating Drake, though, can use their STAB moves on Incineroar. Nidoqueen, Hippowdon, and Landorus are prime examples.

Water-types: Suicune, Slowbro, and Wishiwashi are bulky Water-types that can live a Knock Off and hit back with a strong Water-type attack, like Scald or Hydro Pump. Politoed, in particular, can set up the rain sometimes with its ability by random chance, Drizzle.

Latias (Latios) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

My overview: Like the name? Because I do. Latios is a strong attacker in Doubles and I feel like people really underestimate it. Especially that Devastating Drake powered up by a Draco Meteor. That really hurts. Psychic is a good STAB option to spam around to hit Fighting-types that Incineroar can't handle, like Terrakion. Thunderbolt is the coverage option that I chose because nothing particularly targets Water-type Pokemon. Protect is used because, well, it's Doubles, dammit. 252 SpA and 252 Spe, along with a Timid Nature is used to allow Latios to be super fast and hit very hard, while giving the rest of the EV Spread to SpD.

Counters:
Dark-types: Bisharp can Sucker Punch Latios to oblivion. Tyranitar and Weavile aren't Sucker Punchers, but they can easily prove to become a big problem. Dark-type coverage can also be a problem to deal with as well, like Dark Pulse Heatran. (Who TF runs that)

Trick Room: Speed is definitely one of Latios best traits, but it can also become its worst during Trick Room. Audino, Cofagrigus, and Reuniclus are notable Pokemon that can take a hit and set up Trick Room.

Fairy-types: Florges can easily eat a hit and strike back with Moonblast. Aromatisse is one Fairy-type in particular that can set up Trick Room.

Mega Gengar: Regular Gengar is okay to deal with but Mega Gengar is definitely one of the most threatening Pokemon to face despite being super frail. It especially becomes a problem once Incineroar is out of the picture, with Thunderbolt for Tapu Fini, and Shadow Ball for both Mega Metagross and Latios. And as if that wasn't enough, Destiny Bond, boi.

Mist (Tapu Fini) @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Moonblast
- Protect

My overview: Tapu Fini is definitely a very strange Fairy-type to use on this team but it works very well. Though Misty Terrain weakens Devastating Drake if Latios were to use it, it also prevents status conditions from being spurred upon the team. Muddy Water is a good spammable option to use to lower accuracy. Moonblast is that secondary STAB move to possibly lower the foe's Special Attack stat. Ice Beam is a good coverage move to use alongside Muddy Water and Moonblast and though it may seem strange to use, it hits Garchomp, Landorus, and other Dragons harder and also hits Amoonguss. Protect allows to scout and punish attackers into Tapu Fini's slot. A Calm Nature along with mixed defenses can allow Tapu Fini to take Electric-type attacks much better.

Counters:
Electric-types: Even if it can take one, that doesn't mean it can take a lot of them without taking massive damage. Zapdos, Thundurus, and Raikou are huge mentions. Raikou is the biggest problem to this team, as it has access to Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt and can boost with Calm Mind.

Grass-types: Amoonguss can be a pain to deal with and is the main Grass-type to watch out for. Others like Virizion, Mega Venusaur, and Rotom-M can really do a ton of damage to it with their super effective STAB options. Rotom-M can also paralyze it if its Misty Terrain is down.

Stomping Gigabyte (Metagross-Mega) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
- Ice Punch
- Protect

My overview: Mega Metagross is a ridiculously powerful Pokemon to use in Doubles, and fits the D/S/F core very well. A Jolly Nature with 252 EVs in both Atk and Spe allows Mega Metagross to be very fast and hit hard, while the rest of the EVs go into SpD, because I'm lazy. Iron Head is the best STAB move for Mega Metagross to use as it has a good chance to flinch an opponent. Stomping Tantrum, while not as powerful as Earthquake, gets a Tough Claws boost and Ice Punch is a good coverage option to have. Protect is there because it's f*cking Doubles.

Counters:
Ground-types: Man, the same problems as Incineroar. Just go to Incineroar's post.

Fire-types: Actually, speaking of Incineroar, that's one of the very few Pokemon that actually demolishes Mega Metagross to the ground. Entei, Moltres, Scarf Typhlosion and Mega Charizard X and Y can mess Mega Metagross up and break its coding.

Steel-types: Steel-types seem to wall Mega Metagross very well, like most Steel-type Megas, namely Mega Aggron and Mega Metagross. Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor also seem to do very well against it too.


LOSS: S8WW-WWWW-WWWU-8899
-----


Alright, that's it. Still, can someone recommend me some Hyper Offense Pokemon, that seems to be my best playstyle. I ain't a Brain, but I guess I'm a Brawn, I guess that's not a good thing. I dunno.
Well, Tapu Bulu would be an excellent addition to your team as it weakens certain Ground moves and can deal with pesky Water/Ground/Electric Pkm. Personally, I recommend a Life Orb set. This is the Tapu Bulu set I would use:

Wood Hammer, Horn Leech, Protect, Superpower
108 HP | 252 Atk | 12 Def | 4 SpD | 132 Speed

It works wonder with Tailwind support, for example from Latios.
If you dislike Tapu Bulu, Kartana is fine as well, but I would realy suggest Tapu Bulu as it can take Fighting and Dark moves Incineroar and Metagross are weak to respectively.
Another amazing Pkm is Kommo-o. It's a good wallbreaker and an excellent cleaner in my experiences.

Modest, Z-Move, Bulletproof, Clanging Scales | Close Combat | Protect | Laser Focus/Work Up
212 HP, 244 SpA, 52 Speed

Kommo-o can deal with Gengar thanks to Bulletproof. As with Tapu Bulu, Tailwind works wonder. Both Pkm are able to outspeed Mega Alakazam, and they hit very hard. You have the choice between Laser Focus and Work up. The former will destroy opposing Pkm relying on defensive boosts, while the latter can be more consistent, and it boosts Attack and Special Attack. Personally, I would go for Laser Focus because there is nothing more annoying than dealing with Calm Mind Suicune and Cresselia or Curse Registeel.

Edit: I would recommend to put the 4 EVs in Special Defense as far as Incineroar is concerned because you don't want Download boost from Porygon2 and Porygon-z
 
Does anyone have recommendations for an all out attackers team looking for 100 wins in Super Singles?
I'm thinking some combination of Greninja, Mimikyu, Nihilego, Garchomp, Dragonite, M-Blaziken, M-Lopunny, M-Salamence, M-Scizor but I'm open to ideas. I have a Naive Greninja I'd like to be my lead if possible.

Edit - This is for regular Moon, if it matters.
 
Does anyone have recommendations for an all out attackers team looking for 100 wins in Super Singles?
I'm thinking some combination of Greninja, Mimikyu, Nihilego, Garchomp, Dragonite, M-Blaziken, M-Lopunny, M-Salamence, M-Scizor but I'm open to ideas. I have a Naive Greninja I'd like to be my lead if possible.

Edit - This is for regular Moon, if it matters.
Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Outrage

Greninja @ Life Orb /Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick (or some other coverage like dark pulse)
- Grass Knot

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Brick Break / bug bite / Brutal swing

What about something like this? Straight out offense, great typing synergy, lots of sweeping potential. Garchomp should lead in this case, because if it can set up SD it will sweep more often than not.
 
Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Outrage

Greninja @ Life Orb /Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick (or some other coverage like dark pulse)
- Grass Knot

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Brick Break / bug bite / Brutal swing

What about something like this? Straight out offense, great typing synergy, lots of sweeping potential. Garchomp should lead in this case, because if it can set up SD it will sweep more often than not.
That looks fun. I think I'll breed them. Is Scald generally better than Surf?
 

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