Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[Nameschonvergeben]

Hello again,
I got another streak with the same team I posted before (the only changes are the ones I already noted in my previous post). I was hoping I could get 300 this time, but I ended up losing at 288 wins. However, due to uh... technical difficulties my 3ds turned off after I lost, so I guess my official streak length ends up being 285 wins.

The Team

Gardevoir-Mega (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 100 HP / 76 Def / 188 SpA / 4 SpD / 140 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Hyper Voice

Kartana (Kartana) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 228 Atk / 52 SpD / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Tailwind

Incineroar (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 14 SpA
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 4 Def / 228 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Substitute
- Protect

To make the post a bit more interesting, I'm gonna share some war stories of difficult battles I had:

Warstory 1

vs. Hilario the Youth Athlete
Turn 1:
vs.
Gardevoir taces contrary from Serperior. These opponents are not huge threats in my book, but Whimsi can always disrupt my game plan by being annoying. I also notice Serperior-4 can put some pretty big chip on Gardevoir, while being likely to ignore Kartana:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 100 HP / 4 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 99-117 (63.4 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Still I decide to go for Hyper Voice + Tail Wind, since preventing Serperior from moving does not seem possible here and switches to Incineroar can get weird, as he's outsped by Serperior, even in TW and I'd have to switch out Kartana after using TW.

Gardevoir megas
Kartana sets Tail Wind
Serperior uses Leaf Storm on Gardevoir, Gardevoir faints, a critical hit
Whimsicott sets Tail Wind
252+ SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 100 HP / 4 SpD Gardevoir-Mega on a critical hit: 148-175 (94.8 - 112.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

This is bad, losing Gardevoir for free, while my Tailwind is countered with an opponents Tailwind. I will have to switch Kartana into Incineroar next turn, so I replace Gardevoir with Landorus.

Turn 2:
vs.
This is tough, but far from over. Due to Serperior being Modest Lando outspeeds, however his chance of OHKOing is very low:
228 SpA Life Orb Landorus Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 127-151 (84.6 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Leaf Storm into Lando is basically guaranteed here, so while Kartana switches to Incineroar, Lando protects. I have to hope Whimsi doesn't do anything weird.

Kartana switches to Incineroar
Landorus uses Protect
Serperior Leaf Storm into Landorus
Whimsicott Swagger into Landorus

Turn 3:
vs.
Finally there's a clear path to get back into this match. Had Whimsi swaggered Incineroar, that would've been big trouble, but the way it is my path is clear: Inci can Fake Out Serperior while Lando outspeeds and KOs pranksterless Whimsi, then during the next turn Serperior will be in range for lando aswell (15.4% are needed for Lando to KO):
252+ Atk Incineroar Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 25-30 (16.6 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO

Incineroar uses Fake out on Serperior
Lando Sludge Bombs Whimsicott
Whimsicott faints
Serperior flinches
Hawlucha replaces Whimsi

Turn 4:
vs.
Hawlucha after losing Gardevoir is not an easy opponent at all. I HAVE to KO Serperior with Lando here. Both Incineroar and Kartana would be hit Super Effectively by a fighting attack. I decide to keep Kartana save and simply Flare Blitz into Hawlucha with Incineroar. In retrospect switching to Kartana might not have been a bad move, since Hawlucha most likely wont ko him, it recycles Fake Out and preserving HP is much more important on Inci than Kartana.
252 Atk Hawlucha Flying Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 108-128 (80.5 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Hawlucha Sky Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana on a critical hit: 114-135 (85 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Flying Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 120-144 (89.5 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Hawlucha uses Sky Attack against Incineroar, a critical hit
Landorus Sludge Bombs Serperior
Serperior Faints
Incineroar flinches
Salazzle replaces Serperior
Both Tailwinds dissipate

Turn 5:
vs.
I am in trouble. The crit leaves Incineroar at 30 hp, the flinch might actually be good for me here, since he would've killed himself with the recoil from Flare Blitz, while most likely not scoring a KO:
252+ Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 130-154 (84.9 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Salazzle is faster than Lando and either set is big trouble. Salazzle-4 can OHKO with a Z-Move, while Salazzle-3 can survive a hit with Sash and 2HKO:
252 SpA Salazzle Fire Blast vs. 20 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 102-120 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Salazzle Inferno Overdrive (195 BP) vs. 20 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 195-231 (116.7 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
On top of that he has Fake Out, making him extra unpredictable. I have no clear path to victory at this point. If I can setup a 1v1 between Hawlucha and Lando, I would win, but there's no way to get rid of Salazzle without big losses.
228 SpA Life Orb Landorus Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 88-104 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Hawlucha Stone Edge vs. 20 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 50-59 (29.9 - 35.3%) -- 20.4% chance to 3HKO
I decide I need to recycle Fake Out, so I switch Incineroar for Kartana, while Protecting Lando against potential Fake Out or Z-Move.

Incineroar switches to Kartana
Landorus uses Protect
Salazzle Fake Outs Landorus
Hawlucha Flying presses Kartana

Turn 6:
vs.
Kartana is low here, and there's no clear play for me. All I can do at this point is optimize my winning chances, while there is a large chance I just lose. Every move leads to possible scenarios where I lose or win. My final decision is switching Lando for Inci (so much for recycling that FO) while Tailwinding with Kartana, to outspeed salazzle next turn. Against Salazzle-3 this allows me to win if he goes for Nasty Plot (Inci survives and Fake Outs or he nasty plots while his sash gets broken) Against Salazzle-4 this is pretty much a guaranteed win, since Lando outspeeds and OHKOs. If Hawlucha is unburden, I think I lose every scenario, that does not involve extreme luck, as Kartana faints without moving.

Landorus switches for Incineroar
Kartana uses Tail Wind
Hawlucha Flying Presses Kartana
Kartana faints
Salazzle Overheats Incineroar, but it misses
Landorus replaces Kartana

Turn 7:
vs.
This is it, my final gamble paid off and won me the game. Overheat reveals Salazzle-4, without Focus Sash, the path is clear from here: Fake out Hawlucha, while Lando OHKOs Salazzle and then beat Hawlucha with Lando, which is exactly what happens on Turns 7 and 8.
Victory!

Warstory 2

vs. one of the Sun trainers
Turn 1:
vs.
I have not noted these opponents as large threats before, but still I am unsure what to do in this situation. Charizard is guaranteed Y and Heatwave + Leafblade would kill gardevoir. With a potential Quick Claw on Leafeon it will be very hard to stop him from moving, no matter what and if Kartana makes a move, he will certainly die. The plan I come up with is Protect + Tail Wind, then bring Inci for Kartana, Fake Out Leafeon while securing the kill with Hyper Voice, which then would put Charizard in range for a Thunder Bolt KO.
188+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 38-45 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
188+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 116-138 (75.8 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Charizard Megas into Charizard-Y
Gardevoir Megas
Gardevoir uses Protect
Kartana uses Tail Wind
Charizard-Y uses Heat Wave
Kartana Faints
Leafeon Leaf Blades Gardevoir
Incineroar replaces Kartana

Turn 2:
vs.
I continue following through with my plan

Leafeons Quick claw activates (haha I planned for this)
Leafeon uses Detect (oh NO!)
Incineroar Fake Outs Leafeon
Charizard Solar Beams Gardevoir
Gardevoir uses Hyper Voice

Turn 3:
vs.
That was less than ideal. However I feel Incineroar is fairly save here, so I Protect Gardevoir, while going for another attempt at knocking out Leafeon, this time with Flare Blitz.

Charizard switches to Venusaur
Gardevoir uses Protect
Incineroar uses Flare Blitz into Leafeon
Leafeon Faints
Exeggutor replaces Leafeon

Turn 4:
vs.
This aint so bad. I still have a turn of Tail Wind, so Gardevoir can KO Venusaur (who can't mega) with Psychic and Inci will knock out Exeggutor with Flare Blitz.

Venusaur uses Protect
Gardevoir Psychics Venusaur
Incineroar Flare Blitzes Exeggutor
Exeggutor faints
Charizard-Y replaces Exeggutor
The Tail Wind dissipates

Turn 5:
vs.
This is not that easy actually. Solar Beam put Gardevoir in guaranteed ko range for Venusaur:
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 100 HP / 4 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 62-73 (39.7 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 100 HP / 4 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 102-120 (65.3 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I need to protect Gardevoir, while recycling fake out. Here I make a critical mistake though. I go for U-Turn to recycle FO, not realizing the Flare Blitz recoil has critically weakened Incineroars HP (down to 116), giving Charizard a high chance of KOing with Focus Blast:
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Incineroar: 116-138 (57.4 - 68.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Gardevoir uses Protect
Charizard uses Focus Blast on Incineroar
Incineroar faints
Venusaur Sludge Bombs Gardevoir
Landorus replaces Incineroar
The Sun dissipates

Turn 6:
vs.
With correct play from the AI I am dead. Venusaur is faster than Garde and can KO her, Lando can't beat both. My last-ditch effort is trying to ko Charizard, while hoping Venusaur goes for random protects (he did earlier when he had a guaranteed KO on garde). Lando will beat Venusaur 1vs1. Sludge Bomb and Thunder Bolt into Charizard.

Landorus Sludge Bombs Charizard
Charizard uses Heat Wave
Venusaur Sludge Bombs Gardevoir
Gardevoir faints

Turn 7:
vs.
This is the end. One lone hero still stands, but he is without hope against the overwhelming enemy force.

Landorus Sludge Bombs Charizard
Charizard faints
Venusaur Energy balls Landorus
Landorus faints

Game over.


If I switch Incineroar to Lando, instead of U-Turning, Lando takes the focus blast, is not in range for anything sludge bombs charizard, while taking heat wave, gardevoir dies to venu and then I have inci fake out on venu, while Lando outspeeds and KOs Charizard, then I beat venu 2v1 easy.
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 20 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 47-56 (28.1 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
228 SpA Life Orb Landorus Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 55-65 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

That aside the AI played exceptionally well here, using the perfect protects to stall out my Tailwind turns and switching Charizard out of Tailwind, when he could've gone down, so uh... kudos to the AI.

If there's any plays I missed and did not point out in the writeup I'd be happy to hear about them, since I'm not a very good players chances are I probably missed something. Thank you for reading.

 

[Coeur7]

Coeur7: a Catalogue of Failure

No replays; no desire to be featured on the board. No exact EV spreads / natures because I don't remember them. No needless words (except these).

Proto-4K (~240) (Salamence / Kartana / Tapu Koko / Hariyama+Wishiwashi)
Played: Fall '17
Influenced by: goodstuffs teams at the time

Hide

Salamence @ Salamencite
Intimidate
- Double-Edge
- Bulldoze
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

Kartana @ Focus Sash
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- Protect

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

Hariyama @ Lum Berry
Thick Fat
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
- Helping Hand

Wishiwashi @ Lum Berry
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Protect

First Doubles team of mine to reach the Starf Berry, which I then considered a milestone, but now this team is mainly of interest (to me) because it shows the origins of 4K. Deficient moveslots abound, in part due to a lack of tutors (including ORAS which I don't own). Hariyama was chosen due to resisting Rock, Ice and Fire while providing Fake Out and HH access. I swapped it out for Wishiwashi mid-streak for reasons I don't recall. Absurdly bad team.

After this, I piloted a carbon-copy of Level 51's PheroLele to ~380 and then stopped playing for a while.

Koko-Kang (497) (Tapu Koko / Kangaskhan / Landorus-T / Aegislash)
Played: April '18
Influenced by: paperquagsire et al. (lead combination), Josh C.'s Mega Lopunny team

Hide

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Scrappy
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Brick Break [lol]
- Sucker Punch

Landorus-T @ Life Orb
- Earth Power
- Grass Knot
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect

Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard

Koko/Kang + Steel + Ground with a levitator was a common sight at the time (paperquagsire had Garchomp/Celesteela; I also recall a team with Excadrill/Latios). I didn't have a HA Landorus and ended up discovering the power of Intimidate for myself instead. Also the power of Mega Kangaskhan.

Identity Theft (~200) (Oranguru / Camerupt / Primarina / Ferrothorn)
Played: Summer '18
Influenced by: The Gesamtkunstwerk of ReptoAbysmal, JustinTR's M-Camerupt team

Hide

Oranguru @ Lum Berry
Inner Focus
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Instruct
- Psychic

Camerupt @ Cameruptite
- Protect
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Yawn

Primarina @ Life Orb
Liquid Voice
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball

Ferrothorn @ Choice Band
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Explosion

Tutors arrive. Don't ask about Yawn. It was used to facilitate Trick Room using T1 Guru switches; one of these telltale signs that your team isn't good enough. Josh C. would later raise the bar on M-Camerupt by adding a Tapu (Bulu) and Nature Power in the idle moveslot, which is probably the best set.

Power Whip is better than Seed Bomb. This is Repto's influence, although he usually makes better teams even when forced to pick 4 at semi-random. À propos, here's a link to EVELYN (a small Perl script that aids with playing Randoms the Repto way; it's currently used by exactly one person in the world).

Snake! (~140) (Latias / Arbok / Heatran / Tapu Bulu)
Played: Summer '18
Influenced by: turskain's Bulu team, personal fondness of snakes

Hide

Latias @ Latiasite
- Tailwind
- Ally Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Grass Knot

Arbok @ Poisonium Z
- Gunk Shot
- Coil
- Stomping Tantrum
- Protect

Heatran @ Life Orb
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Nature Power
- Protect

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Rock Slide
- Superpower

Seviper is the more aesthetically pleasing snake but hopeless in battle, even with Final Gambit. I tried.

Intimidate + Mega Latias is a decent imitation of actual platforms like Misty Seed Zapdos, and the leads enjoy great Ally Switch synergy. Z-Coil was used a few times to reset Intimidate; you would generally not believe the amount of Coils that Arbok gets; the team contributed to teaching me the value of setup in Doubles.

Nature Power Life Orb Heatran in Grassy Terrain OHKOs Primarina34 IIRC; Eruptran would likely have been better but was unobtainium. Still displaying that fatal fondness of items like Choice Band on a Doubles backliner, but at least Lati/Heatran/Bulu is an actual core.

Kommo-Voir (~400) (Kartana / Incineroar / Kommo-o / Gardevoir)
Played: Summer '18
Influenced by: turskain's pioneering work with Kommo-o (Mahler's Exit & Mahler's Flight)

Hide

Kartana @ Focus Sash
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Tailwind
- Protect

Incineroar @ Assault Vest
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Thunder Punch

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Trace
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Protect [?]
- Ally Switch

Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
Bulletproof
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Wherein I discover that Kartana is a fantastic Tailwind setter and practise how to switch in Doubles.

Kommo-o used a more defensive EV spread (IIRC hitting the magic number of 137 Speed to outrun the base 130+ crew in TW) than the standard 252/252 Spe/SpA.

I want to condemn Thunder Punch as I type this. IIRC it got Primarina into Hyper Voice range, which is still not the best of cases against U-turn on a team that regularly switches out Incineroar on T1.

I recognized the EV spread of the Gardevoir in the post above: it's the one I used here. Gardevoir can take hits rather well behind Intimidate, the ability that makes your HP/Def EVs count 1.5x 23/24 of the time, team-wide (a simplification, but you get the point; the same way that Tailwind/TR makes your Spe count double/require no investment at all for the price of 1t, which compared to Inti's 0t should show how valuable Spe is compared to all other stats, if this is still worth it).

4K (886, 1002, 1149) (Tapu Koko / Kartana / Kommo-o / Kangaskhan)
Played: Fall/Winter '18, again in 2019; too many times
Influenced by: turskain (see above), an E-Web Koko I saw at VGC '18 + Koko-Kang teams

Hide

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Electroweb
- Dazzling Gleam

Kartana @ Focus Sash
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off [previously Sacred Sword]
- Tailwind
- Protect

Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
Bulletproof
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Scrappy
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

The only mediocre team I ever made (streaks of 1000 are now what I consider mediocrity, yeah), 4K still holds the amusing distinction of being the only team at 1000+ that has been piloted by multiple players, for reasons I can only guess at but which might involve the team's absurd plug-and-play "philosophy". The team was born from wishing that Tapu Koko learnt Tailwind and discovering that, effectively, it does. Losses occurred to Electrode setting a Light Screen I overlooked in calcing while pursuing a dubious line (twice) and the game crashing (once).

I still consider Knock Off to be the superior second slot over S-Sword on Kartana, not least because this ensures that all Trick Room users get OHKOd T1.

Bulky SToss Kangaskhan as used by Level 51 should be superior, in part because of the frequent T1 switches (Volt or otherwise) to it; it was unavailable to me.

This team taught me that I have the psychological issue of getting bored of obvious winning lines (my entire experience with 4K is akin to my reenacting Bad Girl in No More Heroes, incidentally a much more artful game than Pokemon; I even listened to Pleather For Breakfast on repeat during play in futile irony). Battle 1150 is not when you start trying to prove that you can play cute with Electroweb like the pros, instead of inflicting the necessary "unsubtle" chip you've played a million times before.

Star Wash (~90, 392) (Staraptor / Rotom-W / Garchomp / Scizor)
Played: January/February '19 IIRC
Influenced by: Peterko's Subway Staraptor team; also Eisenherz having crafted a Gladion cosplay team, which I played using the magic of QR codes; it featured a lead Scarfluke with Final Gambit, and I fell in love with the move. General Ally Switch fondness is also due to Eisenherz' showcasing the move on MimiLax.

Hide

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate
- Final Gambit
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Tailwind

Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Ally Switch

Garchomp @ Groundium Z
- Protect
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

Scizor @ Scizorite
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Protect

You haven't felt cute until you've won a 2-2 by choice-locking Ally Switch on Rotom coming back in (after T1 Volt Switch) exploiting the fire move against Scizor for a winning SD. I wish this team had been my legacy instead of the one above. Alas. The team probably overperformed on the second streak (the first was lost to Glalie3 getting the Moody boosts and unfailing dodges of its life).

Final Gambit is the most suitable move for learning target priorization / trainer roster strategy in Doubles, because it forces you to make trades but also trades for almost anything. Max HP Staraptor proved amusingly able to take 2HKO damage even after Brave Bird recoil. U-turn allows you to switch from Rotom while having Rotom out T2 anyway, which the team needed given that it "plays fair" (read: loses early).

SD Scizor was essential to the team as a win condition behind the three "positional" goodstuffs. Protect/Sub is the way for Garchomp.

A precursor of this had physical Scarf Landorus-T as the lead and Hydreigon instead of Garchomp. It didn't work that well because Hydreigon is a poor Tailwind setter, and that team is worth remembering only for the use of Fly on Landorus (lol) as a pseudo-Protect and Shiinotic check.

Cotton Tree (400) (Cottonee / Xurkitree / Kommo-o / Kangaskhan)
Played: some time in 2019
Influenced by: mixing 4K with Jumpman16's Subway Doubles team

Hide

Cottonee @ Focus Sash
Level: 1
- Protect
- Tailwind
- Fake Tears
- Memento

Xurkitree @ Air Balloon
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Tail Glow
- Protect

Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
Bulletproof
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

This team hates Greninja34 for its T1 Water Shuriken / Blizzard ambiguity, and Blizzard leads in general. Xurk had a defensive EV spread; not much investment is needed for Tail Glow / Beast Boost to work. Air Balloon is best (was Lum Berry). The team is technically undefeated because I had switched to 4K mid-streak, but is best regarded as a loss at that point because I felt it inevitable that it would; it's worse.

Night Shift (HGSS Doubles, ~200) (Dusknoir / Shiftry / Snorlax / Machamp)
Played: 2019
Influenced by: ReptoAbysmal (note Iron Ball Machamp); Eisenherz's MimiLax; the absence of non-FEAR Trick Room on the HGSS leaderboard

Hide

Dusknoir @ Lum Berry
- Trick Room
- Night Shade
- Gravity
- Destiny Bond [?]

Shiftry @ Choice Scarf
- Explosion
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb

Snorlax @ Life Orb
Thick Fat
- Self-Destruct
- Return
- Fire Punch
- Protect

Machamp @ Iron Ball
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Fling
- Protect

Attempts to break the top 10 streaks on the HGSS leaderboard without resorting to FEAR ended in failure. This was the least failing of them. HGSS ended up frustrating to play due to its emphasis on hax (also seen in Gen3; it was the Subway that majorly changed the nature of opposing sets); most egregiously, there is a trainer type specializing in sets with OHKO moves. Dusknoir also turns out to be OHKO'd, inexorably, by Mismagius' critical Shadow Ball, coming from a set which holds Focus Sash; this is why the attempt was ill-starred from the cradle.

Explosion teams need something for Steels, which invites a Fighting-type (given that Endeavor is not available), and Ghosts. Machamp's speed tier is only serviceable in Trick Room, not good (a lesson I learnt from Repto); hence Iron Ball, which also addresses Ghosts via Fling. The best part of Machamp is not dropping Def/SpD after attacking.

Why did I ever play Singles (Adv Singles, ~200, ~400) (Latias / Blissey / Scizor)
Played in: mid-2019, also in 2020
Influenced by: Peterko / Jumpman16 using Latias in HGSS Singles; Mega Salamence/Aegislash/Chansey

Hide

Latias @ Lum Berry
- Thunder Wave
- Charm
- Mud-Slap
- Recover

Blissey @ Leftovers
- Seismic Toss
- Minimize
- Substitute
- Soft-Boiled

Scizor @ Salac Berry
- Hidden Power Bug
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Morning Sun

The team sucked, but influenced a much better one ("Deutsche Wissenschaft"). The idea was "what if Latias doesn't even need Trick".

Flash is better than Mud-Slap, even with reduced accuracy.

Jet-Sawk (Subway Doubles, 291, ~150, ~200) (Sawk / Latios / Bisharp / Milotic)
Played: Winter 2019
Influenced by: various Subway teams, Peterko's Top/Latios/Hydra/Scizor for instance; Josh C.'s current Tree team (for the tank + 3 goodstuffs template)

Hide

Sawk @ Choice Scarf
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Rock Slide
- Taunt [?]

Latios @ Life Orb
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Ground
- Protect

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Defiant
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Low Kick
- Protect

Milotic @ Sitrus Berry
- Scald
- Haze
- Rest
- Recover

Sturdy makes Sawk usable. Rock Slide is for Volcarona (Quiver Dance being a threat) and Ice Workers; the miss chance is what it is, you'd rather have a 90% chance to push Volc into Sucker Punch range than 0%. Taunt, if it was that, helps with Trick Room leads, since many of them resist Close Combat, although sometimes letting the enemy set TR is correct anyway.

The team needed a priority user and a Steel-type. Bisharp works akin to Scizor while also incorporating a Kartana-esque Sash. It's my favourite innovation. For one, it does not lose to Chandelure, which the leads don't like much already.

Milotic's role was one I had not used before; it does nothing on this team but take hits, inflict chip, check / distract from Blizzard, and neutralize the bevy of setup sets that otherwise threaten its goodstuffs team-mates. Thus the seemingly absurd combination of Rest and Recover on the same set -- different purposes; one beats Toxic stallers, one is for positioning (including stalling out enemy TR).

I never could replicate the success (edit: relatively, not absolutely, speaking) of the initial run; I'm not sure if it was due to the usual fatigue setting in or the team having lucked out once.

----

Conclusion: I've invariably failed to reach my goals and wish I had not spent time on this game (over 1000 hours in total, including such meaningless drudgery as breeding), but can't change that I did now. Here's to moving on, however the irony undermines me that I couldn't resist making this post after all.

If you want to do me a favour, just desist from clicking a reaction.

edit: I forgot to add "Unfortunate doesn't begin to describe my series" but I think I'm well-served anyway. Kudos to the one guy who clicked Haha; if nobody had, something would be missing karmically.

 

[Phat_Nana327]

Reporting a current Super Doubles streak of 200 WINS...

Intro: This is a very similar team to my last report with one obvious change and a couple slight changes to returning Mons' EV-Spreads and/or movesets. I hope y'all won't mind if I only highlight the changes to preexisting sets and the team's new member and not dive too deep into repeating info...

The Team:

Lead 1
Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 212Hp - 228Def - 4SpA - 4SpD - 60Spd
0IV Attack
Stats: 182Hp-169Def-161SpA -171SpD-151Spd
Timid Nature
- Tailwind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Heal Pulse

Lead 2
Incineroar @ Figy Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 236Hp - 4Atk - 52Def - 132SpD - 84Spd
Stats: 200Hp-136Atk-128Def-127SpD-91Spd
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Snarl

Tapu Fini @ Iapapa Berry
Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 228Hp - 100Def - 60SpA - 44SpD - 76Spd
Stats: 174Hp-148Def-123SpA-171SpD-115Spd
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Haze
- Taunt

Landorus-Therian @ Yache Berry
Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 212Hp - 4Atk - 4Def - 164SpD - 124Spd
Stats: 191Hp-182Atk-111Def-121SpD-127Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Protect

Changes/Notes:

Mega-Latias: Latias is the team's newest member and, sadly, had to replace the original team's stand-out member, Articuno. What made Articuno a personal favorite was it's bulk, access to Tailwind, Pressure, neutrality to Ice, immunity to Ground, and it's ability to handle Gyarados and Mega-Venusaur (the two banes of my Battle Tree streaks). Unfortunately, it seems Articuno could only make it so far and I needed a Mon that could fill all those roles PLUS more!
Enter Mega-Latias! Mega-Latias trades an Ice neutrality for a 2x weakness but maintains Tailwind, a Ground immunity, and ability to beat Gyarados and Mega-Venusaur. What Latias also brings to the table (that the team really needed) is it's Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, and Psychic resistance, MUCH more bulk, Psychic STAB, and a faster Heal Pulse. Having Heal Pulse on Latias also let's Fini run Taunt which is more utility the team needed.

Latias Benchmarks:
- 60 Speed EVs outs Mega-Latias at 151Spd. 151 is a CRUCIAL Speed Tier because, in Tailwind, it outspeed literally every un-boosted Mon in the Battle Tree
- Mega-Gyarados Crunch does 73% max to Latias and Latias 2HKOs back with T-Bolt after Incin's Fake Out
- Mega-Gengar does 76% max with Shadow Ball and Latias OHKOs back guaranteed
- Latias 2HKOs Mega-Venusaur guaranteed
- OHKOs all non Mega-Gyarados guaranteed

Tapu Fini:
- Fini went from 113Spd to 115 which is basically to outrun Scarf Typhlosion to weaken it's Eruption
- In Tailwind, Fini outspeeds everything except Aerodactyl-1, Manectric-4, Garchomp-3, Entei-3, and Terrakion-4
- Dropped Heal Pulse for Taunt to shut down Trick Room and Pain Split in particular. Taunt also helps shut down annoying Mons like Dusknoirs, Cresselia, Mandibuzz, Regigigas, Blissey, etc

Incineroar:
- Went from 81Spd to 91 specifically to outspeed Mega-Lucario in Tailwind but outspeeding Gengar, Froslass, Latias/os, Gallade, Genies, and Lake Guardians can be HUGE

Threats:
- Rotom formes: they're just annoying status spammers and Mega-Latias doesn't handle them as well as Articuno
- Powerful Dark types: having a new weakness to Dark on the team made me realize how many Dark types there are in the Battle Tree lol

Replays:
Battle #199: TGVW-WWWW-WWXE-HLZX
Battle #200: LFMG-WWWW-WWXE-HLZW

Welp, there's a quick report... I've been trying to upload some pics but something keeps going wrong on my end! I will keep trying but if you see this before they're up, they will be soon! Posting the report now so I don't need to type it again if something else happens and I lose it all!!

 

[Cajeegs]

I have been grinding a lot lately and I have finally achieved my goal of 1000 wins in super doubles! Chansey is finally at the 1k club :D It took so long and got pretty boring sometimes but it's finally done. There were a few more close calls but only one real nailbiter, which leads to me to believe that the team is more viable for a really long streak than I thought. It has nearly no weaknesses because of great type synergy, misty terrain nullifying status hax, and mega mence being nearly guaranteed to get up tailwind because of its great speed, allowing excadrill or tapu fini to sweep a lot of teams.

Some more goodstuffs about the team-
-The three spread moves of earthquake, hyper voice, and dazzling gleam are great for achieving double KOs
-Mence and drill often end up sweeping teams by themselves- for example, Kikijuro (mono electric), Xenophon (mono grass), and Xio (mono fairy) all get shredded by mence or drill once tailwind goes up.
-Double swapping on turn one to chansey and fini is often a great play if the lead matchup is poor (especially against intimidators) as my backline has a good matchup vs most threats to the frontline, and fini can spam an attack while chansey keeps itself and fini healthy with heal pulse and soft-boiled
-Knowing that chansey can checkmate a lot of things with its massive bulk can allow me to leave them alone sometimes and focus on bigger threats- nearly all non-boosting special and most physical attackers fall into this category for chansey, and lots of boosters and evasion spammers are nullified by fini's trick, especially suicune, blissey, regigigas, and ferrothorn. Trick can also be good for zapdos-2 if it decides to connect..
-Having two pokemon with protect on the frontline can allow me to scout a lot of sets on turn one and then decide what to do- this is especially helpful for trainers that can have sets 1 through 4 like Abel and for pokemon such as politoed which may or may not be threatening

-Specific matchups-
For sun trainers- even though excadrill is weak to fire and outsped by most fire types, it usually baits their attacks and allows mence to get tailwind up and sweep with eq + double-edge.
For rain trainers- I usually double switch on turn one if I can't get a double KO, but sometimes I am willing to sacrifice mence to get tailwind up to allow fini and drill to sweep. Fini and chansey have such a great matchup vs. rain to the point where it's practically a free win.
For sand trainers- Drill + Fini have a great matchup them because they can spam scald or iron head/earthquake. I'm usually willing to sacrifice mence for tailwind against sand, but they rarely have the opportunity to OHKO it.
For speed trainers- Get tailwind up ASAP! This will nearly always ensure a victory, but if this is impossible or if flinches are a threat, chansey has a good matchup vs. most speed trainers because their attacks don't hit very hard and chansey is so bulky. She can wear everything down with seismic toss, as well as healing its partner. Just watch out for taunt from weavile, crobat, and electrode >:(
For trick room- Most trick roomers can be taken out instantly by mence and drill, except for mega slowbro, cofagrigus, dusknoir (has an abysmal chance to live iron head + double edge) and cresselia. My backline matches up well against them all, but mega slowbro is a threat because it can dent fini with psychic pretty hard. Heal pulse is very useful for trick room, so I spam it a lot- I have always been able to stall it out this way and chipped everything down with fini until trick room expired.
For intimidate spammers- Tapu fini has a good matchup vs. a lot of them so I usually get tailwind up and end up sweeping with hyper voice and fini's attacks. This isn't a great matchup in general though because drill and mence don't like intimidate, so it's important to preserve fini. It's always funny when nothing rolls intimidate as well.

General Notes
-Sometimes it's worth sacrificing salamence or allowing it to get paralyzed in order to get tailwind up! I sometimes do this when the opposing trainer's roster or frontline walls mence but not drill and fini. I consider tailwind a top priority for speed trainers, ezra and christian (for mega zam, mega gengar, and latios), kikujiro, and colress (to ensure drill sweeps). It's also desirable to avoid being flinched by random crap
-Mold breaker is amazing! The rotom forms are notoriously annoying for spamming thunder wave and being decently bulky, but excadrill destroys them all (except the fan) with earthquake with a little prior damage from mence. Being able to ignore sturdy for magnezone, bastiodon, and carbink is really helpful and ignoring solid rock and filter is great for carracosta (dies to eq + hyper voice) and mega aggron.
-I try not to earthquake my own partner with drill, but sometimes it's necessary- fini avoids the 2HKO without a crit, and chansey doesn't take much, so it's not so bad to do so. I have forgotten once or twice that it will hit my own partner, but I got away with it :)
-I only use rock slide when I absolutely have to or I lose nothing from it, but there has been an occasion or two where it was near necessary and I had to risk it. This situation is extremely rare and I doubt it will ever result in a loss.
-If an opposing pokemon has blizzard, I almost never leave excadrill in vs. it because I don't want to be frozen. I will either double up on the threat or swap in tapu fini.
-Try not to lock tapu fini into an attack that the opponent can take advantage of, especially if tailwind isn't up- for example, being locked into moonblast is bad if a volcarona comes out, whereas being locked into scald is bad if a gyarados comes out. Looking up trainer rosters is helpful for this
-Chansey's speed tier is so good vs. mega mawile and the regis! I can swap in chansey to take a play rough, an ice beam, or even a continental crush from regirock and safely heal up next turn if its partner isn't threatening. Although chansey is probably the least used member, it is really important for taking big hits, because my backline doesn't have a rock or fairy resist. Sometimes, I even decide to let chansey take a hit that fini would resist because chansey takes around the same amount of damage. If only chansey got regenerator...
-I always note when abilities activate at the start of the battle because they can tell me what sets I'm facing. For example, if entei's pressure activates before mence's intimidate, I know it's the scarf set. And if gardevoir's trace activates before drill's mold breaker, I know it's the max speed set and not the mega set. I don't think this applies to unnerve though because it seems to always go first..

Replays
No. 805 T96G-WWWW-WWXE-HMDJ (Walrein, Infernape, Mudsdale, Avalugg)
Walrein-4 goes on a rampage, dodges 3 attacks, and hits 2 OHKO moves out of 3. This is one of the few times that kartana would be better than excadrill on this team (cause of leaf blade). Clearly Walrein-4 belongs on this team's threatlist, but that's true for most teams.
No. 824 NGKG-WWWW-WWXE-HMDU (Walrein, Milotic, Archeops, Gigalith)
Guess who's back?? (Without Me starts blaring) The threat of Sheer bullshit entices me to launch an all out attack, ignoring the beautiful yet deadly Tender Pokemon. Then, rock slide flinching! Fun fun fun
No. 896 8YDG-WWWW-WWXE-HMEB (Slowbro, Bronzong, Frost-Rotom, Rhyperior)
I mostly saved this one because mega slowbro OHKOd its partner rhyperior with surf in a desperate attempt to KO excadrill xD but it also shows how the team deals with trick room relatively well.
No. 1,000 9FRW-WWWW-WWXE-HMEF (Liepard, Honchkrow, Bisharp, Scrafty)
Number 1000 is a really easy win- Chansey and friends finally reach four digits!

Side note- I have a couple other doubles teams cooked up that I would like some feedback on if anyone is interested....

 

[Runeblade14]

Hi, back again with my battle tree update.
Did 10 battles this time, got to 530.
Again, pretty fun to do, really should play more often all though it's probably going to be a few months again.
I really don't remember much from my streak tbh, it's been years and my memory isn't the greatest, haven't found much issues while playing though.

 

[eve zeta]

Just lost a super singles streak at 104, team has an incredible amount of trouble with ferrothorn, so if anyone has suggestions of what to replace to help with that I’d appreciate it.
The team is
Salamance @ salamencite
intimidate

return
dragon dance
earthquake
dragon claw (this move seems replaceable)
adamant
252 speed
252 attack
4 hp


celesteela @ leftovers
beast boost

leech seed
heavy slam
toxic
protect
careful
248 hp/28 def/232 spdef


gliscor@toxic orb
poison heal
earthquake
protect
toxic
substitute
careful
212 hp/4 atk/36 def/252 spdef/4 speed
this is taken directly from the mastering the maison thing for xy/oras, i haven’t really looked at the pokémon in the tree to see if the 4 speed is necessary


Most of my climb was done with an assault vest goodra

goodra@assault vest
sap sipper
dragon pulse
sludge bomb
ice beam
flamethrower
modest
252 hp/164 def/52 spatk/40 spdef

the goodra obviously does better against every ferrothorn because of flamethrower, but it seems like a weaker pokémon overall. I guess since the team doesn’t really have other problems maybe it’s better than gliscor for climbing, but idk.



(the pokémon were gotten from creatorpi since i’m too lazy to actually breed pokémon, so if that disqualifies me from leaderboard contention i’d prefer to be up front about it)


replay is NBLG-WWWW-WWXE-YY8N
I played pretty poorly against the ferrothorn too, i’m not really sure why i kept using earthquake, probably if i spammed return i would’ve gotten there.

edit: another solution i came up with for the ferrothorn problem (and I guess foretress as well if there are any of those) was to teach flamethrower (with no investment) to salamanca over dragon claw since claw doesn’t do all that much on the set. I think this leaves me open to some of the rotom forms (in particular, frost) a bit more than I currently am, but not by much. It’s also possible that earthquake could be done away with in favour of (brick break?) some other piece of coverage, but I’m not really sure. In any case, I’m starting the streak over with these pokémon, using goodra over gliscor for now. I’ve also played around with suicune and originally started with mimikyu, but neither of those help with ferrothorn a whole lot it feels like. The mimikyu had lum berry, maybe a z-shadow claw could get there instead?

 

[Smoothjuicy]

Just lost a super singles streak at 104, team has an incredible amount of trouble with ferrothorn, so if anyone has suggestions of what to replace to help with that I’d appreciate it.
The team is
Salamance @ salamencite
intimidate

return
dragon dance
earthquake
dragon claw (this move seems replaceable)
adamant
252 speed
252 attack
4 hp


celesteela @ leftovers
beast boost

leech seed
heavy slam
toxic
protect
careful
248 hp/28 def/232 spdef


gliscor@toxic orb
poison heal
earthquake
protect
toxic
substitute
careful
212 hp/4 atk/36 def/252 spdef/4 speed
this is taken directly from the mastering the maison thing for xy/oras, i haven’t really looked at the pokémon in the tree to see if the 4 speed is necessary


Most of my climb was done with an assault vest goodra

goodra@assault vest
sap sipper
dragon pulse
sludge bomb
ice beam
flamethrower
modest
252 hp/164 def/52 spatk/40 spdef

the goodra obviously does better against every ferrothorn because of flamethrower, but it seems like a weaker pokémon overall. I guess since the team doesn’t really have other problems maybe it’s better than gliscor for climbing, but idk.



(the pokémon were gotten from creatorpi since i’m too lazy to actually breed pokémon, so if that disqualifies me from leaderboard contention i’d prefer to be up front about it)


replay is NBLG-WWWW-WWXE-YY8N
I played pretty poorly against the ferrothorn too, i’m not really sure why i kept using earthquake, probably if i spammed return i would’ve gotten there.

edit: another solution i came up with for the ferrothorn problem (and I guess foretress as well if there are any of those) was to teach flamethrower (with no investment) to salamanca over dragon claw since claw doesn’t do all that much on the set. I think this leaves me open to some of the rotom forms (in particular, frost) a bit more than I currently am, but not by much. It’s also possible that earthquake could be done away with in favour of (brick break?) some other piece of coverage, but I’m not really sure. In any case, I’m starting the streak over with these pokémon, using goodra over gliscor for now. I’ve also played around with suicune and originally started with mimikyu, but neither of those help with ferrothorn a whole lot it feels like. The mimikyu had lum berry, maybe a z-shadow claw could get there instead?

replace dragon claw w flamethrower

 

[eve zeta]

replace dragon claw w flamethrower

that’s what I ended up doing, thanks

 

[Anna says hi]

Just lost a super singles streak at 104, team has an incredible amount of trouble with ferrothorn, so if anyone has suggestions of what to replace to help with that I’d appreciate it.

As someone whose main Singles team also uses two of these three Pokemon, I should probably comment on this.

The team is
Salamance @ salamencite
intimidate

return
dragon dance
earthquake
dragon claw (this move seems replaceable)
adamant
252 speed
252 attack
4 hp

You're right in that Dragon Claw is replaceable. There's pretty much no situation in which it's significantly stronger than Return for it to matter to begin with. I'd recommend replacing it with Roost, which allows you to set up on an extremely wide variety of mons, including things such as Carracosta. I'd also recommend moving your 4 HP EVs to Special Defense so as to give the Porygons an Attack boost from Download.

celesteela @ leftovers
beast boost

leech seed
heavy slam
toxic
protect
careful
248 hp/28 def/232 spdef

Since both of your other members are 4x weak to ice, this should ideally be something that can switch in on and win against every Ice mon in the tree, even if it gets frozen on the switch. While celesteela does beat a large variety of Ice types, there's two things that are awful for it in the context of being an ice counter.
1) It has no way to deal with being frozen. Freeze is something that happens occasionally, and if it happens to this Celesteela, your team is toast.
2) It can be overpowered by Water-types that use Ice attacks, as well as the common Rotom-Frost.
Because of these things, and to prevent your team from losing outright to a lead Rotom-Frost3, I'd recommend using a water type as your ice counter. Suicune and Tapu Fini are the best options here, because Tapu Fini is outright immune to Freeze and Suicune can thaw itself instantly with Scald. Now, you may be wondering how a water type would prevent you from losing to an Ice/Electric type. If you switch your water in on the turn 1 blizzard, you can then switch to Gliscor on the Electric move turn 2, with Misty terrain preventing the AI from selecting Will-o-Wisp.

gliscor@toxic orb
poison heal
earthquake
protect
toxic
substitute
careful
212 hp/4 atk/36 def/252 spdef/4 speed
this is taken directly from the mastering the maison thing for xy/oras, i haven’t really looked at the pokémon in the tree to see if the 4 speed is necessary

This is pretty much a standard Gliscor set. Regarding the EVs, it's common practice to split leftover EVs so that you're investing in five stats. Due to how EVs work at level 50, you get an extra stat point for the first 4 EVs you invest, but only gain a point for every 8 EVs after that. This means that if you were to remove, say, the four EVs in Attack and drop that stat by a point, there would be no stat you could invest in that would give you that stat point back. Of course, the 4 speed EVs help to break speed ties with opposing uninvested base 95s, such as Drapion4 and Electivire3.


I hope this helps you get better numbers.

 

[Phat_Nana327]

Just lost a super singles streak at 104, team has an incredible amount of trouble with ferrothorn, so if anyone has suggestions of what to replace to help with that I’d appreciate it.
The team is
Salamance @ salamencite
intimidate

return
dragon dance
earthquake
dragon claw (this move seems replaceable)
adamant
252 speed
252 attack
4 hp


celesteela @ leftovers
beast boost

leech seed
heavy slam
toxic
protect
careful
248 hp/28 def/232 spdef


gliscor@toxic orb
poison heal
earthquake
protect
toxic
substitute
careful
212 hp/4 atk/36 def/252 spdef/4 speed
this is taken directly from the mastering the maison thing for xy/oras, i haven’t really looked at the pokémon in the tree to see if the 4 speed is necessary


Most of my climb was done with an assault vest goodra

goodra@assault vest
sap sipper
dragon pulse
sludge bomb
ice beam
flamethrower
modest
252 hp/164 def/52 spatk/40 spdef

the goodra obviously does better against every ferrothorn because of flamethrower, but it seems like a weaker pokémon overall. I guess since the team doesn’t really have other problems maybe it’s better than gliscor for climbing, but idk.



(the pokémon were gotten from creatorpi since i’m too lazy to actually breed pokémon, so if that disqualifies me from leaderboard contention i’d prefer to be up front about it)


replay is NBLG-WWWW-WWXE-YY8N
I played pretty poorly against the ferrothorn too, i’m not really sure why i kept using earthquake, probably if i spammed return i would’ve gotten there.

edit: another solution i came up with for the ferrothorn problem (and I guess foretress as well if there are any of those) was to teach flamethrower (with no investment) to salamanca over dragon claw since claw doesn’t do all that much on the set. I think this leaves me open to some of the rotom forms (in particular, frost) a bit more than I currently am, but not by much. It’s also possible that earthquake could be done away with in favour of (brick break?) some other piece of coverage, but I’m not really sure. In any case, I’m starting the streak over with these pokémon, using goodra over gliscor for now. I’ve also played around with suicune and originally started with mimikyu, but neither of those help with ferrothorn a whole lot it feels like. The mimikyu had lum berry, maybe a z-shadow claw could get there instead?

Just to get the most out of your EVs, there's a couple changes you might want to make:

Celesteela: 244Hp - 36Def - 228SpD

Goodra: 252Hp - 164Def - 52SpA - 36SpD - 4Spe

Any stat I removed 4EVs from, will remain the same number when battling in the Tree at level 50, but the 8EVs to Celesteela's Def will add 1-point and the 4EVs added to Goodra's Speed will also add 1-point! It's just the weird way EVs work. You always want to invest in an ODD amount of stats and the amount of EVs you invest should always be a number divisible by 8.

Side Note: you want to evolve in an odd number of stats / always invest with an amount divisible by 8 UNLESS the spread is for a Trick Room team and you want 0-Speed and ARE NOT investing in BOTH Atk/SpA for a Mixed-Attacker. Adding 4EVs to a stat with 0IV won't actually add a point. However, if you're building a Mon for a team that has a Trick Room mode but isn't a HARD Trick Room team that doesn't really NEED 0-Speed IV/EV, you can dump the leftover 4 EVs in Speed.

Lol! It's all unnecessarily convoluted but every stat point can end up mattering in the Battle Tree if you ask me!!

 

[Robcore]

Having a bit of joy at the moment with the below team in Battle Tree Doubles, but I'm not convinced on the final Pokémon;

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Pressure | Jolly Nature | 6HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Protect / Knock Off / Ice Punch / Fake Out

A Pokémon I absolutely adore using and the only non-negotiable member of my team. Fake Out to get Gardevoir mega-evolved, Focus Sash allows me to bait when required to allow Gardevoir to spam Hyper Voice. Generally covers me with Trick Room due to a significant number of TR-setters being weak to Dark, but I do need to be careful when I can't Fake Out suspect leads such as Dusclops. EVs are simple, be as fast as possible and hit as hard as possible.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Trace | Timid | 6HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Shadow Ball / Protect / Psyshock / Hyper Voice

Originally Mega-Mawile but I hated Play Rough's accuracy. Mega Gardevoir is faster and had spread moves which usually allows Weavile to grab a KO on T2. Generally speaking, my tactic is simply to get at least one Pokémon immobilised (either by KO, Fake Out or both) T1, which gets the ball rolling. I've got Shadow Ball on over Thunderbolt (for example) simply for Trick Room leads where I don't feel Weavile will flinch/faint and double up; otherwise very rarely used. EVs haven't been particularly calculated, mainly same as Weavile.

Landorus-T @ Life Orb
Sheer Force | Naive | 6 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Earth Power / Protect / Sludge Bomb / Rock Slide

Only Naive as that's the only special orientated HA Landorus I have, but I do have the facility to go back and get a Timid or Hasty one if I have the urge; otherwise allows me to use Rock Slide without penalising it further. Never really realised how hard he hits until I'd put him in the back; he generally cleans up where Weavile and M-Gardevoir fail. I feel the synergy works well between the three of them, but I am wary of Hail and Rain teams.

Swampert @ Waterium-Z
Torrent | Adamant | 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
Waterfall / Ice Punch / Protect / Earthquare

The odd one out. Swampert was picked because I wanted a water type at the back, offers some bulk whilst hitting relatively hard but in all honesty I don't love him. He was originally a M-Swampert I had for another team, hence the strange EVs. His typing is what I really wanted him for and I don't think Quagsire suits an environment like Doubles nor do I think Seismitoad has the bulk I desire although would give me a huge Rain-team defence with his HA. Typing this out, I could potentially consider him. He's there mainly to offer some bulk, a *bit* of a nuke with Waterium-Z and cover type weaknesses elsewhere.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Swampert offers me coverage, Water typing and physical moves whilst providing bulk, but in all honesty he's not particularly doing much for this team. I'm currently up to about 80 wins with a few close shaves but usually been my lack of attention that has gotten me into that position.

 

[Coeur7]

If it has to be Water/Ground, Gastrodon is alright, and at least much better than Swampert at checking rain (hail specialists don't exist post-50 save for Sina in Sun) and Trick Room. @ Groundium Z, Earth Power / Icy Wind / Recover (or Scald, which checks Blizzard better) / Protect. Assault Vest is a viable alternative.

If it has to be a Water-type, Tapu Fini is generally the best option because shutting down status is essential to long streaks and it's one of the best setup users (Calm Mind). I'd recommend putting it next to Weavile in the front. You could also try a Specs set (with Icy Wind?)

I'd also consider an Electrium Z user (Koko, or perhaps Rotom-W if you're that worried about rain) or Scarfed Xurkitree for the last slot.

IMO put Grass Knot on Landorus instead of Rock Slide. Shadow Ball seems quite marginal on Gardevoir, especially since you can hit all the targets with Weavile. I'd replace it (Taunt, Icy Wind, Ally Switch, Reflect, Disable, Encore all seem like better moves).

I don't know how to build for long streaks but 200 should be doable.

Also turskain used a Weavile/Shell Smash Crustle lead pair in Subway to get iirc 308 (no write-up, sadly).

 

[Phat_Nana327]

Having a bit of joy at the moment with the below team in Battle Tree Doubles, but I'm not convinced on the final Pokémon;

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Pressure | Jolly Nature | 6HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Protect / Knock Off / Ice Punch / Fake Out

A Pokémon I absolutely adore using and the only non-negotiable member of my team. Fake Out to get Gardevoir mega-evolved, Focus Sash allows me to bait when required to allow Gardevoir to spam Hyper Voice. Generally covers me with Trick Room due to a significant number of TR-setters being weak to Dark, but I do need to be careful when I can't Fake Out suspect leads such as Dusclops. EVs are simple, be as fast as possible and hit as hard as possible.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Trace | Timid | 6HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Shadow Ball / Protect / Psyshock / Hyper Voice

Originally Mega-Mawile but I hated Play Rough's accuracy. Mega Gardevoir is faster and had spread moves which usually allows Weavile to grab a KO on T2. Generally speaking, my tactic is simply to get at least one Pokémon immobilised (either by KO, Fake Out or both) T1, which gets the ball rolling. I've got Shadow Ball on over Thunderbolt (for example) simply for Trick Room leads where I don't feel Weavile will flinch/faint and double up; otherwise very rarely used. EVs haven't been particularly calculated, mainly same as Weavile.

Landorus-T @ Life Orb
Sheer Force | Naive | 6 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Earth Power / Protect / Sludge Bomb / Rock Slide

Only Naive as that's the only special orientated HA Landorus I have, but I do have the facility to go back and get a Timid or Hasty one if I have the urge; otherwise allows me to use Rock Slide without penalising it further. Never really realised how hard he hits until I'd put him in the back; he generally cleans up where Weavile and M-Gardevoir fail. I feel the synergy works well between the three of them, but I am wary of Hail and Rain teams.

Swampert @ Waterium-Z
Torrent | Adamant | 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
Waterfall / Ice Punch / Protect / Earthquare

The odd one out. Swampert was picked because I wanted a water type at the back, offers some bulk whilst hitting relatively hard but in all honesty I don't love him. He was originally a M-Swampert I had for another team, hence the strange EVs. His typing is what I really wanted him for and I don't think Quagsire suits an environment like Doubles nor do I think Seismitoad has the bulk I desire although would give me a huge Rain-team defence with his HA. Typing this out, I could potentially consider him. He's there mainly to offer some bulk, a *bit* of a nuke with Waterium-Z and cover type weaknesses elsewhere.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Swampert offers me coverage, Water typing and physical moves whilst providing bulk, but in all honesty he's not particularly doing much for this team. I'm currently up to about 80 wins with a few close shaves but usually been my lack of attention that has gotten me into that position.

You should give Swampert an EV spread of 148Hp, 252Atk, 108Speed. 148 EVs will give you the same stat as 152 at level 50. Same goes for 104EVs and 100 so if you take 4EVs from HP and add to Speed, your HP stat will remain the same but your Speed gain a point!
Lol just the weird nuances of EV mechanics

 

[Cajeegs]

Hello everyone. I would like to point out that there is some flaw in the battle tree damage calculator that makes some of the damage calcs slightly incorrect. Unfortunately I figured this out after it just cost me a game. Here is an example-

236+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z in Psychic Terrain: 160-189 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This calc is from the battle tree calculator and is wrong because a porygon-z just lived my lele's psychic in-game. I'm 100% sure I have the correct evs of 236 and the correct nature of modest.

236+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z in Psychic Terrain: 159-187 (99.3 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
This calc is from the standard calculator on Showdown and must be right.

To everyone playing in the battle tree, I recommend that you use the standard calculator on showdown until this (maybe) is fixed.

 

[TailGlowVM]

Hello everyone. I would like to point out that there is some flaw in the battle tree damage calculator that makes some of the damage calcs slightly incorrect. Unfortunately I figured this out after it just cost me a game. Here is an example-

236+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z in Psychic Terrain: 160-189 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This calc is from the battle tree calculator and is wrong because a porygon-z just lived my lele's psychic in-game. I'm 100% sure I have the correct evs of 236 and the correct nature of modest.

236+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z in Psychic Terrain: 159-187 (99.3 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
This calc is from the standard calculator on Showdown and must be right.

To everyone playing in the battle tree, I recommend that you use the standard calculator on showdown until this (maybe) is fixed.

Have you got a perfect IV in Special Attack, and does the Porygon-Z have perfect Special Defense and HP IVs? That could be what has happened here - one of the calcs was done with a perfect IV of 31 and the other with a lower one.

 

[Anna says hi]

Odds are that you were facing Porygon-Z3, which invests in HP. This makes the calc vs. Lele's Psychic look like this: 236+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z in Psychic Terrain: 160-189 (83.3 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That said, I have confirmed the discrepancy between the two calculators. Odds are this happens due to some multiplier (likely Psychic Terrain's) being applied at a different time in the calculators, which explains why I haven't ever noticed something like this across nearly 3000 battles.

 

[Cajeegs]

I'm 100 percent sure it was porygon-z4 because it outsped and ohkod my sharpedo with thunderbolt which promptly caused me to lose the game. YEs my tapu lele has 31 ivs in special attack. It took place at around battle 300 so all of the AI's ivs should be perfect. You can also check for yourselves that the calcuations I have posted are actually different when using the battle tree calculator and the showdown calculator.

To all who use modest tapu lele, I think it would be worth investing 244 evs instead of 236 into spatk to guarantee the ohko on p-z4 :)

 

[Anna says hi]

So the issue seems to be that on Turskain's calc (and on the to-metrion calc), modifiers are applied slightly differently from the Showdown calc, which corresponds to the games. This is literally just an inconsistency between rounding methods, but we've just seen that rounding errors can lose games. Fortunately, there is a mild fix - Terrain modifiers appear to affect move power directly, so for borderline calcs you can simply disable the Terrain and write in the new Base Power (135 for Psychic, 120 for Psyshock, 97 for Psybeam). This appears to give the same result as the Showdown calc as far as I could find.

 

[Phat_Nana327]

Odds are that you were facing Porygon-Z3, which invests in HP. This makes the calc vs. Lele's Psychic look like this: 236+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z in Psychic Terrain: 160-189 (83.3 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That said, I have confirmed the discrepancy between the two calculators. Odds are this happens due to some multiplier (likely Psychic Terrain's) being applied at a different time in the calculators, which explains why I haven't ever noticed something like this across nearly 3000 battles.

Doesn't seem like the case here but I've messed up PLENTY of calcs by forgetting that Psychic, Grassy, and Electric Terrain only boost types of those moves by .33 now instead of .5 like in Gen7!

Seeing the .33 boost missing on OHKOs or 2HKOs would force unfavorable switches, sacs, or damage and has def cut a few streaks short haha! I still forget about it 25% of the time!!

 

[nQxed]

Battle video TRJW-WWWW-WWXE-KLP8

This is a battle where thers nothing i couldve done differently i just litterly lose to bad lead match up lol.

My team was

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Grass knot

Pheromosa @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug buzz
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Protect
- Soft-Boiled

 

[latios777]

Hello, I was just playing this team for fun and I was surprised that I achieve 184 wins (supersingle) using a suboptimal incineroar set (is my starter so....no intimidate).


Incineroar (M) @ Firium Z
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Outrage
- Flame Charge

I caught a jolly litten as a starter, the team tries to use this thing "with viability". If you try to use the team, I recomend using a better set.


Tapu Bulu @ Lum Berry
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 228 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 220 SpD / 52 Spe
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Synthesis
- Bulk Up
- Superpower

I choose this set to pair with slowbro, has good sinergy and resists with the other mons and the terrain is helpful in some situations. Probably stone edge better in this team (rockium-Z in this case better and incineroar can use other item like AV, pinch berry, etc....with a better ev spread). Lum berry helps with hax (freezes mainly).

Slowbro (F) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 20 SpA / 156 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
- Ice Beam

The best mon in the team. If you see a mon that is fodder for slowbro (in the calculator you see the possible sets for each mon), you nearly GG the oponent.
No haxing crits with shell armor is nice (and scald= no freeze hax).


How I lose.

Oponent sen minior4. Switch incineroar in to slowbro. He shell smash and then explosion. I click scald because was an OHKO and I fear a second smash.
+2 252+ Atk Minior Explosion vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 102-121 (50.4 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (minior ofensive)


+2 252+ Atk Minior Explosion vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 75-89 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (minior meteor/defensive)
+2 252+ Atk Minior Explosion vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Slowbro: 113-133 (55.9 - 65.8%) (minior meteor/defensive)


Something is wrong, maybe a bug? Or just AI "change" to ofensive form if explosion is used? Slowbro take 113 HP damage, probably the answer to second question is "yes".


Oponent send florges. I see that can run petal dance in the turskain calculator and I switch into bulu. Bulu uses as a set up fodder and boosts at +2 or +3 with bulk up. I could be boost maybe one or two more, but not sure if this made diference.
Then AI send Mega venusaur. I use superpower and bulu faints with sludge bomb. Technically incineroar can win if choose the correct moment for use the Z move, but I don't find the correct between subs, synthesis and recoil and venu wins (with 0 synthesis I think, not sure). Then mega venu finishes my slowbro with gigadrain.

One battle that I win with hax (+3 o 4 similar battles)

If hydro hits I lose and only made 123 wins. I fear the CM set + Rest and click Scald without thinking about Mirror Coat.

Some threats.

-Fly spams mons like tornadus and pelipper specially with flyinium Z. Tornadus-I number 1 (battle 81) miss 3 hurricanes. Otherwise, I lose this battle. Well, he crits my incineroar with focus blast, but has a slightly chance to OHKO. Pelipper 2,3 and 4 are anoying. I see 2 times the set 2 with helmet.
-Mega venusaur. Slowbro can 1 vs 1 if is a full life and no grassy terrain active and Incineroar maybe can win if the Z is well played. Roserade isn't used fortunately.
-OHKO users can be anoying if have luck, of course. I remember vikavolt and snorlax doing work.
- Against mega charizard-Y stall the sun turns switching slowbro with bulu.
- Against magnezone and Gengar leads always click the Z with incineroar (because can be bright power/mega and are dangerous mons for bulu and bro).
- Tyrantrum lead. Use knock off with incineroar always. If is banded you can lose the speed tie and send Slowbro and mega. Spam slack off 4 times then (without calculator I probably don't make the play and lose).
- Etc. (not the best team anyway).



First atempt runing the team, I have less than 50 wins, I can't remember how I lose. But in the second....wow was very lucky I recognise.

Thanks to turskain calculator, impossible to do without that help.

Two logs added, Heisenberg. Also I notice that:

Minior does damage with his ofensive form if explodes even if was in his defensive form when explodes....or just ignores the boost in defense for megaevolution if mega evolves slowbro this turn (probably not).

EDIT:

Using showdown calculator:

+2 252+ Atk Minior-Meteor Explosion vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 101-119 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (defensive 60 atk base)

+2 252+ Atk Minior-Meteor Explosion vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 136-161 (67.3 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (ofensive 100 atk base)

Seems that turskain calculator is buged with minior.

 

[Anna says hi]

Recently got back to playing Tree after about five months of only doing Frontier. Originally during the start I only played Tree out of obligation to continue the singles streak (i.e. to prevent it from being marked as finished), but I've come to realize that there's a sort of fun in curbstomping battle after battle, as opposed to the atrocious luck-fest and cycle of round 1-3 losses that is doubles battle factory.

No photo for now, but I'm currently at 2174 wins with the same team (Salamence/Gliscor/Suicune), and I feel like I can start picking up the pace again. I aim to hit 2500 by the year end, and I'll be very disappointed in myself if I can't even manage 2300 before then.

 

[Eisenherz]

Leaderboard update!

First of all, latios777, thanks for adding the replay, you're now listed!

Second of all, Runeblade14, I wasn't able to find any post featuring a writeup of your current team, is it possible you never made one? If so, I'd encourage you to do one and include a replay so I can add that team to the leaderboard! If I'm just blind, please help me out with a link! :P

Finally, nQxed, could you please include a short (or long) writeup about your team and run (if you'd like to be added to the leaderboard, that is)?

Hello everyone. I would like to point out that there is some flaw in the battle tree damage calculator that makes some of the damage calcs slightly incorrect. Unfortunately I figured this out after it just cost me a game. Here is an example-

236+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z in Psychic Terrain: 160-189 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This calc is from the battle tree calculator and is wrong because a porygon-z just lived my lele's psychic in-game. I'm 100% sure I have the correct evs of 236 and the correct nature of modest.

236+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z in Psychic Terrain: 159-187 (99.3 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
This calc is from the standard calculator on Showdown and must be right.

To everyone playing in the battle tree, I recommend that you use the standard calculator on showdown until this (maybe) is fixed.

That's really unfortunate, I also remember that very same calc happening to me years back with Lele vs. Porygon-Z, I was also using 236 Modest... I was really puzzled about that calc, and at the time the Showdown one had the same issue, giving the same result. I eventually just forgot about it.

Anyway, after seeing this I went to investigate and finally found and fixed the issue in my calculator, and then pushed the same fix on turskain's calculator, so now both are accurate!

I'll investigate the Minior issue next when I find the time, thanks for reporting it latios777!

 

[nQxed]

Well my team is just half offense and stall. Pheromosa and tapulele primary goal is to take care of as many threats as possible that will beat celesteela and chansey at the back. Mainly fighting types, fire types , electric types, and physical attackers are threats to chansey and celesteela. Especially quick claw incineroar and emboar theres no counter play against them i just have to pray quick claw doesn't activate. 4-2 lead is the aim of this team. If you know on turn1 u cant KO both of the mons might as well protect with pheromosa and Psychic chip something u think is a threat that must be eliminated. Celesteela and chansey just there to leech seed and toxic stall lol and it beats trick room teams. Celesteela also provides switch in against psychic, fairy , flying if pheromosa cannot remain in the feild.

 

[Phat_Nana327]

Battle video TRJW-WWWW-WWXE-KLP8

This is a battle where thers nothing i couldve done differently i just litterly lose to bad lead match up lol.

My team was

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Grass knot

Pheromosa @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug buzz
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Protect
- Soft-Boiled

Not trying to sound like a pretentious douche lol but you should change your Celesteela and Chansey EV-Spreads to be more efficient at lvl: 50!
At level 50, you always want to invest in either 3 or 5 stats aka: an ODD number of stats (which you have and unless it's a TR build where you don't need the other Offensive stat point), and the amount you invest in each stat should ALWAYS be a number that is divisible by 4.
Basically, if you have a spread of 248Hp / 252Def / 8SpD, you should go either 252/252/4 or 244/x/252/4/4/4.
This is because, at level 50, investing 248 EVs will be the exact same number as if you invested 244 EVs... Same for 8 EVs giving you the same stat as 4 EVS... Essentially, 8 EVs are wasted.
If you go 252/252/4 you will get 1 extra stat-point in HP and Def/SpD will remain the same.
If you go 244Hp-252Def-4SpA-4SpD-4Spd, your Hp/Def/SpD stats stay the same but your SpA/Spd will both gain a point!

Lol, it's strange, I know. The first 4 EVs invested in ANY stat will add 1 stat-point. After the first 4 EVs, it takes 8 EVs at a time to gain 1 stat-point. So... might as well get an extra stat-point or two in that case. May not change A LOT of calcs BUT, it could swing a handful of important calcs in your favor!

I'm just a freak about EV-Spreads for Battle Tree teams haha! No disrespect meant! Just spreading the gospel so to speak!