Thanks, I actually did it myself since someone else brought this to my attention and didn't wanted to throw anything without evidence of this beforehand. I was completely unaware that this mechanic existed (I guess I got too used to the modern mechanics of re-learnable moves). Either way, this is good to know and makes it possible to use Megahorn Heracross at Lv.50 assuming you're ok with that awful accuracy.
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Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Kommo-o
- Start date
Yup. Bred it. I'll screenshot my Heracross. It's Jolly with 24/31/30/6/31/31 ivs. You can pass down Megahorn if BOTH parents know it and learn it through level up. You have to raise two Heracross to level 53 and then breed another one.
Attachments
So I just finished Pyramid with relative ease on my second/third attempt. I used CB Slaking for most of the floors except 8 and 10 where I replaced Salamence for Starmie and placed Slaking in slot two, in front of Latias because wild Pokemon on those levels were OHKOed by Starmie and not Slaking, being full of Rock/Steel-types. Against Brandon, Starmie held Scope Lens and because Zapdos' Thunder missed, I was able to defeat Brandon with Starmie alone. In case I had CB Rock Slide from Slaking and I had CM Lum Berry Latias with BoltBeam to ensure I would not lose. Since RNG for Latias and breeding a solid Salamence with Dragon Dance the Battle Frontier is much easier to manage. Easiest facility besides Dome in my opinion, but just as fun.
Now I am moving on to Pike as I leave Palace/Factory while last because they will be frustratingly, random turns where I wish I went with option b instead of a, not to mention getting really unlucky. I am thinking Starmie Salamence Latias is best for this but if anyone thinks Slaking can do well let me know.
Now I am moving on to Pike as I leave Palace/Factory while last because they will be frustratingly, random turns where I wish I went with option b instead of a, not to mention getting really unlucky. I am thinking Starmie Salamence Latias is best for this but if anyone thinks Slaking can do well let me know.
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Since a few days, I've been using a team that Kommo-o and me (well, mostly him haha, I really didn't do much. <_<) made. It's looking really good so far. My current streak on the emulator is at 154, which beats my old retail streak by 14 wins and I can easily it climb way way higher. My current streak on retail was grinded to a halt, but I'll get to that in a bit.
Suicune @ Leftovers
EVs: 238 HP / 140 Def / 132 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Protect
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
We all know Suicune from Team Azure. It's Speed EVs allows it to beat those that run 121 Speed and throw up a Sub before they can do anything about it. Protect + Leftovers keep Suicune alive much better than Rest can. Slow mons that carry a SE move are absolutely destroyed by Sub/Protect/Pressure and can be used to set up on. If they are faster than Cune however, you can switch and Protect stall using Cune and Steelix. It's a pity the EVs and base stat don't allow for perfect Leftovers recovery while retaining 51+ HP Subs.
Steelix (M) @ Chesto Berry
EVs: 246 HP / 20 Def / 244 SpD
Ability: Sturdy
Calm Nature
- Torment
- Protect
- Roar
- Rest
Sturdy is great for all the OHKO hax Battle Tower is famous for. Steelix's typing is also very good considering it gives 2 immunities and 9 resistances. Now, of course, most OHKO users carry a SE move for Steelix, but those can be stalled using either Cune or Mence. Plus, unboosted Earthquakes really don't hurt Steelix much but even STAB Surfs cannot KO Steelix without a crit, which allows Steelix to Torment the opposing mon and 'attempt' to control the flow of incoming SE moves. This Steelix is Male so that it can Torment most Espeon 4s which is a big threat. Roar makes sure that set up users, especially faster ones, won't be able to push through with noticable gains.
This looks nice doesn't it?
255+ SpA Starmie Surf vs. 244 HP / 244+ SpD Steelix: 142-168 (78.4 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Salamence (F) @ Lum Berry
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
Salamence is a great pivot to take the Earthquakes that come Suicune and Steelix's way. Intimidate also helps to soften up other attacks later down the line. Once the opposing Pokémon starts struggling, Mence can come in to DD up. At +6 Aerial Ace 2HKOs Skarmory which otherwise walls this set. Aerial Ace was chosen over HP Flying because this is also great for all the Double Team users and BrightPowder activations. Missing a crucial attack can sometimes be the key to winning or losing after all... Mence would like Leftovers, but Suicune really needs it more.
Suicune @ Leftovers
EVs: 238 HP / 140 Def / 132 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Protect
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
We all know Suicune from Team Azure. It's Speed EVs allows it to beat those that run 121 Speed and throw up a Sub before they can do anything about it. Protect + Leftovers keep Suicune alive much better than Rest can. Slow mons that carry a SE move are absolutely destroyed by Sub/Protect/Pressure and can be used to set up on. If they are faster than Cune however, you can switch and Protect stall using Cune and Steelix. It's a pity the EVs and base stat don't allow for perfect Leftovers recovery while retaining 51+ HP Subs.
Steelix (M) @ Chesto Berry
EVs: 246 HP / 20 Def / 244 SpD
Ability: Sturdy
Calm Nature
- Torment
- Protect
- Roar
- Rest
Sturdy is great for all the OHKO hax Battle Tower is famous for. Steelix's typing is also very good considering it gives 2 immunities and 9 resistances. Now, of course, most OHKO users carry a SE move for Steelix, but those can be stalled using either Cune or Mence. Plus, unboosted Earthquakes really don't hurt Steelix much but even STAB Surfs cannot KO Steelix without a crit, which allows Steelix to Torment the opposing mon and 'attempt' to control the flow of incoming SE moves. This Steelix is Male so that it can Torment most Espeon 4s which is a big threat. Roar makes sure that set up users, especially faster ones, won't be able to push through with noticable gains.
This looks nice doesn't it?
255+ SpA Starmie Surf vs. 244 HP / 244+ SpD Steelix: 142-168 (78.4 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Salamence (F) @ Lum Berry
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
Salamence is a great pivot to take the Earthquakes that come Suicune and Steelix's way. Intimidate also helps to soften up other attacks later down the line. Once the opposing Pokémon starts struggling, Mence can come in to DD up. At +6 Aerial Ace 2HKOs Skarmory which otherwise walls this set. Aerial Ace was chosen over HP Flying because this is also great for all the Double Team users and BrightPowder activations. Missing a crucial attack can sometimes be the key to winning or losing after all... Mence would like Leftovers, but Suicune really needs it more.
Suicune's great Speed tier allows it to set up on so many Pokémon, it's not even funny. Even Pokémon with SE moves fall to Suicune's Pressure stalling. A slow Thunderbolt user will find it's PP gone in 8 turns of using Protect/Sub, at which point Siucune can just Calm Mind up in combination with Protect and Substitute to sweep the opposing team. Only a handful of Pokémon survive +6 Surf, but they can't do much back in turn. Exception to this is for example leading Ludicolo 3 or 4, but they can be stalled to Struggle or if they're Rain Dish, can be set up on using Mence which kills with Aerial Ace. Suicune is in most cases the wincon because of it's sheer bulk and respectable sweeping potential.
Pokémon that threaten Suicune, like for example most Thunder or Thunderbolt carrying Starmies, can be effectively walled by Protecting and switching to Steelix. For example, a Starmie with Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Psychic/Recover can be easily dealt with by simply switching until it's out of Beams, after which Steelix stays in to take the Psychic (44.7% with a crit) and Torments. Once Bolt is gone, Psychics can be dealt with by using Protect. Easy setup for Cune to take the rest. Even with an Ice Beam freeze, nothing much happens, because Suicune will eventually thaw, it just takes a little longer to stall out the remaining PP.
Quick Claw is always an issue, especially on those carrying Explosion like lead Steelix 3 and 4, but careful switching with Steelix and Mence usually means it either booms on one of those. Steelix shrugs it off but Mence can faint from it. Not a huge deal because Cune and Steelix have insane synergy.
Pokémon with Roar or Whirlwind need to be Roared out ASAP since they destroy any chance of setting up. Or you can just stall them out of Roar PP. Whichever works. =P Dragon Dance users are also very scary, especially because they can be unpredictable. It is of utmost importance that they are Roared away ASAP as well. Or knocked out if possible, like Charizard 2.
Basically, switch and stall until it's safe to set up, is the way to go with this team.
Pokémon that threaten Suicune, like for example most Thunder or Thunderbolt carrying Starmies, can be effectively walled by Protecting and switching to Steelix. For example, a Starmie with Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Psychic/Recover can be easily dealt with by simply switching until it's out of Beams, after which Steelix stays in to take the Psychic (44.7% with a crit) and Torments. Once Bolt is gone, Psychics can be dealt with by using Protect. Easy setup for Cune to take the rest. Even with an Ice Beam freeze, nothing much happens, because Suicune will eventually thaw, it just takes a little longer to stall out the remaining PP.
Quick Claw is always an issue, especially on those carrying Explosion like lead Steelix 3 and 4, but careful switching with Steelix and Mence usually means it either booms on one of those. Steelix shrugs it off but Mence can faint from it. Not a huge deal because Cune and Steelix have insane synergy.
Pokémon with Roar or Whirlwind need to be Roared out ASAP since they destroy any chance of setting up. Or you can just stall them out of Roar PP. Whichever works. =P Dragon Dance users are also very scary, especially because they can be unpredictable. It is of utmost importance that they are Roared away ASAP as well. Or knocked out if possible, like Charizard 2.
Basically, switch and stall until it's safe to set up, is the way to go with this team.
In retrospect, I could've won this battle quite easily. I was a little tired and I was trying to finish it as soon as possible before going to work. Bad idea lol.
Anyway, opposing team was Kangaskhan 4 / Slowbro 4 / [something]
Mega Kick and Earthquake were easily dispatched of using Steelix and Mence switching. I then Tormented Kanga and tried to set up on it using Mence. Kanga was at -6 at this point and only had a little bit of Aerial Ace and Shadow Ball PP over. Of course, when I was at +5, it broke my Sub with a crit, and when I went for the sixth Dragon Dance, it broke my Sub again with a critical Struggle leaving me with no HP to Sub again. I went and killed Kanga but then Slowbro appeared. You guessed it, Quick Claw Psychic. I tried setting up with Suicune, but it got a Quick Claw freezing Ice Beam and Cune never thawed while Slowbro got tons of crits. At that point, I just switched of the game. What I should've done, was, knowing that Mence is out of Subs, switch in Cune on -6 Struggle Kanga, setup and go from there. I was too impatient and that cost me the game (well, and all the hax that happened). It was completely preventable and I hate myself for it. Not because I lost a huge streak or anything, but just that it takes so long to get a proper streak going. I start my streaks at 70 because I feel that that's when things start being interesting. Now I gotta redo this all over again until 70 before I can continue my retail streak. :(
I really need a team that can take me to 70 real quick...
Anyway, opposing team was Kangaskhan 4 / Slowbro 4 / [something]
Mega Kick and Earthquake were easily dispatched of using Steelix and Mence switching. I then Tormented Kanga and tried to set up on it using Mence. Kanga was at -6 at this point and only had a little bit of Aerial Ace and Shadow Ball PP over. Of course, when I was at +5, it broke my Sub with a crit, and when I went for the sixth Dragon Dance, it broke my Sub again with a critical Struggle leaving me with no HP to Sub again. I went and killed Kanga but then Slowbro appeared. You guessed it, Quick Claw Psychic. I tried setting up with Suicune, but it got a Quick Claw freezing Ice Beam and Cune never thawed while Slowbro got tons of crits. At that point, I just switched of the game. What I should've done, was, knowing that Mence is out of Subs, switch in Cune on -6 Struggle Kanga, setup and go from there. I was too impatient and that cost me the game (well, and all the hax that happened). It was completely preventable and I hate myself for it. Not because I lost a huge streak or anything, but just that it takes so long to get a proper streak going. I start my streaks at 70 because I feel that that's when things start being interesting. Now I gotta redo this all over again until 70 before I can continue my retail streak. :(
I really need a team that can take me to 70 real quick...
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H
Nice! Did you get a perfect IV Suicune from Colosseum? I'm trying to RNG one, but it's tough.Since a few days, I've been using a team that Kommo-o and me (well, mostly him haha, I really didn't do much. <_<) made. It's looking really good so far. My current streak on the emulator is at 154, which beats my old retail streak by 14 wins and I can easily it climb way way higher. My current streak on retail was grinded to a halt, but I'll get to that in a bit.
Suicune @ Leftovers
EVs: 238 HP / 140 Def / 132 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Protect
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
We all know Suicune from Team Azure. It's Speed EVs allows it to beat those that run 121 Speed and throw up a Sub before they can do anything about it. Protect + Leftovers keep Suicune alive much better than Rest can. Slow mons that carry a SE move are absolutely destroyed by Sub/Protect/Pressure and can be used to set up on. If they are faster than Cune however, you can switch and Protect stall using Cune and Steelix. It's a pity the EVs and base stat don't allow for perfect Leftovers recovery while retaining 51+ HP Subs.
Steelix (M) @ Chesto Berry
EVs: 246 HP / 20 Def / 244 SpD
Ability: Sturdy
Calm Nature
- Torment
- Protect
- Roar
- Rest
Sturdy is great for all the OHKO hax Battle Tower is famous for. Steelix's typing is also very good considering it gives 2 immunities and 9 resistances. Now, of course, most OHKO users carry a SE move for Steelix, but those can be stalled using either Cune or Mence. Plus, unboosted Earthquakes really don't hurt Steelix much but even STAB Surfs cannot KO Steelix without a crit, which allows Steelix to Torment the opposing mon and 'attempt' to control the flow of incoming SE moves. This Steelix is Male so that it can Torment most Espeon 4s which is a big threat. Roar makes sure that set up users, especially faster ones, won't be able to push through with noticable gains.
This looks nice doesn't it?
255+ SpA Starmie Surf vs. 244 HP / 244+ SpD Steelix: 142-168 (78.4 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Salamence (F) @ Lum Berry
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
Salamence is a great pivot to take the Earthquakes that come Suicune and Steelix's way. Intimidate also helps to soften up other attacks later down the line. Once the opposing Pokémon starts struggling, Mence can come in to DD up. At +6 Aerial Ace 2HKOs Skarmory which otherwise walls this set. Aerial Ace was chosen over HP Flying because this is also great for all the Double Team users and BrightPowder activations. Missing a crucial attack can sometimes be the key to winning or losing after all... Mence would like Leftovers, but Suicune really needs it more.
Suicune's great Speed tier allows it to set up on so many Pokémon, it's not even funny. Even Pokémon with SE moves fall to Suicune's Pressure stalling. A slow Thunderbolt user will find it's PP gone in 8 turns of using Protect/Sub, at which point Siucune can just Calm Mind up in combination with Protect and Substitute to sweep the opposing team. Only a handful of Pokémon survive +6 Surf, but they can't do much back in turn. Exception to this is for example leading Ludicolo 3 or 4, but they can be stalled to Struggle or if they're Rain Dish, can be set up on using Mence which kills with Aerial Ace. Suicune is in most cases the wincon because of it's sheer bulk and respectable sweeping potential.
Pokémon that threaten Suicune, like for example most Thunder or Thunderbolt carrying Starmies, can be effectively walled by Protecting and switching to Steelix. For example, a Starmie with Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Psychic/Recover can be easily dealt with by simply switching until it's out of Beams, after which Steelix stays in to take the Psychic (44.7% with a crit) and Torments. Once Bolt is gone, Psychics can be dealt with by using Protect. Easy setup for Cune to take the rest. Even with an Ice Beam freeze, nothing much happens, because Suicune will eventually thaw, it just takes a little longer to stall out the remaining PP.
Quick Claw is always an issue, especially on those carrying Explosion like lead Steelix 3 and 4, but careful switching with Steelix and Mence usually means it either booms on one of those. Steelix shrugs it off but Mence can faint from it. Not a huge deal because Cune and Steelix have insane synergy.
Pokémon with Roar or Whirlwind need to be Roared out ASAP since they destroy any chance of setting up. Or you can just stall them out of Roar PP. Whichever works. =P Dragon Dance users are also very scary, especially because they can be unpredictable. It is of utmost importance that they are Roared away ASAP as well. Or knocked out if possible, like Charizard 2.
Basically, switch and stall until it's safe to set up, is the way to go with this team.
In retrospect, I could've won this battle quite easily. I was a little tired and I was trying to finish it as soon as possible before going to work. Bad idea lol.
Anyway, opposing team was Kangaskhan 4 / Slowbro 4 / [something]
Mega Kick and Earthquake were easily dispatched of using Steelix and Mence switching. I then Tormented Kanga and tried to set up on it using Mence. Kanga was at -6 at this point and only had a little bit of Aerial Ace and Shadow Ball PP over. Of course, when I was at +5, it broke my Sub with a crit, and when I went for the sixth Dragon Dance, it broke my Sub again with a critical Struggle leaving me with no HP to Sub again. I went and killed Kanga but then Slowbro appeared. You guessed it, Quick Claw Psychic. I tried setting up with Suicune, but it got a Quick Claw freezing Ice Beam and Cune never thawed while Slowbro got tons of crits. At that point, I just switched of the game. What I should've done, was, knowing that Mence is out of Subs, switch in Cune on -6 Struggle Kanga, setup and go from there. I was too impatient and that cost me the game (well, and all the hax that happened). It was completely preventable and I hate myself for it. Not because I lost a huge streak or anything, but just that it takes so long to get a proper streak going. I start my streaks at 70 because I feel that that's when things start being interesting. Now I gotta redo this all over again until 70 before I can continue my retail streak. :(
I really need a team that can take me to 70 real quick...
Hello guys! Here to report something really nice.
If you check the leaderboard, my poor Moltres stall was listed at a finished 147 wins streak. That's true, partially.
I used it on my test cartridge while doing my first IRIDESCENCE run on the second one I physically own, and after 147 I had tried a different trash team and brutally lost after 3 fights.
This sin at Mount Sinai eyes was redeemed today, when I've finally reached (and passed) my previous record with this team, now sitting in my second cartridge exported on Emu at 150 and ongoing!
If you check the leaderboard, my poor Moltres stall was listed at a finished 147 wins streak. That's true, partially.
I used it on my test cartridge while doing my first IRIDESCENCE run on the second one I physically own, and after 147 I had tried a different trash team and brutally lost after 3 fights.
This sin at Mount Sinai eyes was redeemed today, when I've finally reached (and passed) my previous record with this team, now sitting in my second cartridge exported on Emu at 150 and ongoing!
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So I officially lost and my streak ended at 1664 wins on Lv.50 Emerald Singles.
The losing battle was vs Cooltrainer Byron who had Regirock 3 lead and Latios 2. The match was pretty straightforward with me opening the game paralyzing Regirock and swapping into Registeel only to realize that it was the cursed Set 3 which is one of the most troublesome sets for this team. I went through a set-up battle in which we went through plenty of Curse boosts (which also means that I couldn't set up Amnesia) and right at the moment I started attacking with a +6 Registeel vs his +5 Regirock (two paralysis turns bought me an extra Curse turn and a Sub turn) I started attacking at the moment it was able to gain his last boost. Of course, the battle between two fully set up golems leave a lot of rubble in between. The AI predictably uses Rest to restore its HP at 1/3 of its health to which it is immediately restored thanks to the Chesto Berry and that's when sparks start to fly. Registeel wins the battle, however, it was a gruesome and tiring one that allowed Regirock to deal plenty of damage which left Registeel at 24 HP left only for Latios to show its face.
Goes without saying, Thunderbolt makes a quick work of Registeel. Nothing I can do to even attempt to stall back and forth. Latias paralyzes on the hopes that paralysis and Flash can buy enough turns for Gyarados to set up but turns out that after a swift Ice Beam allowing it to move first on the turn I was about to recover off the damage, it is revealed to be set 2 at my horror. This is a pretty awful combination and I only had Gyarados left to which my only hopes limited to either paralysis doing some work and buy turns to DD and finish it off (Mind you, HP Flying doesn't guarantees a 2HKO without a boost). Latios doesn't shows mercy and sends Gyarados straight to fish heaven until kingdom comes.
Honestly, while I am disappointed on not being able to reach the 1792 break point, I feel proud of what the team has achieved. Despite not having extra insurance against certain threats like Haxdon, the team has overachieved and reach a high number I feel proud of. The synergy between their members and the amount of battles in which they were able to pull off even on tight situations is something I am happy to share. I also started videos featuring how the team was used since it was incredibly fun to use and y'know if you get a +6 Registeel or a +6 Gyarados fully set-up, you're pretty much slicing battles like a hot knife in butter. Gyarados is also one of my favorite Pokemons on this gen with Suicune and since this streak is over, I will definitely start now with a Suicune team (Yes, the one Thomaz posted) because there is massive potential in there.
Anything I could've done to avoid the loss? The only thing I can think of was that I should've tried to pressure Regirock earlier and rather trying to go all the way to +6, start pressuring it so it consumes its Rest and buy me more turns to deal with it. Dunno how things could've changed but I feel that maybe Registeel would've been on a better position. In the end, it is what it is.
Also in the future, I might do random battles similar to the ones Eisen does on his videos. I'll probably need a save file since my main one is running out of space (14 boxes is too low in Gen 3 wtf Game Freak).
Either way, you can find video proof of my loss video and picture proof of my streak ending:
The losing battle was vs Cooltrainer Byron who had Regirock 3 lead and Latios 2. The match was pretty straightforward with me opening the game paralyzing Regirock and swapping into Registeel only to realize that it was the cursed Set 3 which is one of the most troublesome sets for this team. I went through a set-up battle in which we went through plenty of Curse boosts (which also means that I couldn't set up Amnesia) and right at the moment I started attacking with a +6 Registeel vs his +5 Regirock (two paralysis turns bought me an extra Curse turn and a Sub turn) I started attacking at the moment it was able to gain his last boost. Of course, the battle between two fully set up golems leave a lot of rubble in between. The AI predictably uses Rest to restore its HP at 1/3 of its health to which it is immediately restored thanks to the Chesto Berry and that's when sparks start to fly. Registeel wins the battle, however, it was a gruesome and tiring one that allowed Regirock to deal plenty of damage which left Registeel at 24 HP left only for Latios to show its face.
Goes without saying, Thunderbolt makes a quick work of Registeel. Nothing I can do to even attempt to stall back and forth. Latias paralyzes on the hopes that paralysis and Flash can buy enough turns for Gyarados to set up but turns out that after a swift Ice Beam allowing it to move first on the turn I was about to recover off the damage, it is revealed to be set 2 at my horror. This is a pretty awful combination and I only had Gyarados left to which my only hopes limited to either paralysis doing some work and buy turns to DD and finish it off (Mind you, HP Flying doesn't guarantees a 2HKO without a boost). Latios doesn't shows mercy and sends Gyarados straight to fish heaven until kingdom comes.
Honestly, while I am disappointed on not being able to reach the 1792 break point, I feel proud of what the team has achieved. Despite not having extra insurance against certain threats like Haxdon, the team has overachieved and reach a high number I feel proud of. The synergy between their members and the amount of battles in which they were able to pull off even on tight situations is something I am happy to share. I also started videos featuring how the team was used since it was incredibly fun to use and y'know if you get a +6 Registeel or a +6 Gyarados fully set-up, you're pretty much slicing battles like a hot knife in butter. Gyarados is also one of my favorite Pokemons on this gen with Suicune and since this streak is over, I will definitely start now with a Suicune team (Yes, the one Thomaz posted) because there is massive potential in there.
Anything I could've done to avoid the loss? The only thing I can think of was that I should've tried to pressure Regirock earlier and rather trying to go all the way to +6, start pressuring it so it consumes its Rest and buy me more turns to deal with it. Dunno how things could've changed but I feel that maybe Registeel would've been on a better position. In the end, it is what it is.
Also in the future, I might do random battles similar to the ones Eisen does on his videos. I'll probably need a save file since my main one is running out of space (14 boxes is too low in Gen 3 wtf Game Freak).
Either way, you can find video proof of my loss video and picture proof of my streak ending:
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Yeah, it's 31/12/31/31/31/31. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know. I know a bit.
And /f for Kommo-o. That's really sad. :(
Also, I hear you on the box space. I have two Emerald games and they are both literally completely full. To the point that I needed Box to store all the other Pokémon (I guess I could use Ruby or Sapphire though). I have no idea where all my Pokémon are haha. I should make an Excel file and record what is in what box lol. Sure, I have a lot of Pokés that I could release in a heart beat, like a couple of 30/31/28/x/31/31 mons or even my 31/31/31/x/29/31 mons I bred years ago. But in order to release them, I have to know which of them they are first...
I could never let my 30/31/31/31/31/31 Magikarp though. It has taken me over 4000 eggs (without RNG) to get! I'm really proud of it.
As far as space goes, I'm going to start trading all my good mons that I don't use anymore (like my Pyramid and Pike mons and lower IVs) on emerald for crapmons on Ruby, release the crapmons, and possibly put the retired ones on Box. It's a real shame Emerald itself is incompatible with Box. putting them on Box. That's the entire post lol sorry fellas. Also big ups to Kommo-o for your inspiring run and overall influence.
Hi all,
I am new to this forum. Due to the current COVID-19 situation I have some time left in the weekends and I started playing Pokemon Sapphire again. As a kid I remembered that it is pretty easy to beat the Elite Four. So currently I am aiming for a 100 consecutive win streak at level 100 at the Battle Tower as I have never done that before. I am going to start a new game and I was thinking to try the Werster team. Werster team is quite friendly, fun and easy to use. It is straightforward, does not involve a lot of tactics and has only offensive moves (almost). However, as I am playing on Pokemon Sapphire I can only catch Latias and due to a programming error the Latias will be really bad in terms of IVs (something like x/x/0/0/0/0). At best I can RNG a good nature Latias as I have a dry battery. Even if I go for a good nature Latias it is going to be quite tedious because I do not have Latias in my Pokedex. So I need to do the famous trick on Route 110 over and over again if I fail RNGing every time. Moreover, I can not teach Explosion to Metagross. I do not have a second Gameboy/game to trade with. Also, I can not grow berries due to the dry battery. Therefore, I have to be careful with EV training. Especially Tamato Berry, which I can only get once. On the other hand, from what I understand, Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire Battle Tower is pretty easy compared to the Emerald one. Do you guys think Werster team is strong enough, even with a bad Latias and no Explosion? Or do you guys have any other ideas on the team to use? And do you guys think that breeding will be necessary?
I am new to this forum. Due to the current COVID-19 situation I have some time left in the weekends and I started playing Pokemon Sapphire again. As a kid I remembered that it is pretty easy to beat the Elite Four. So currently I am aiming for a 100 consecutive win streak at level 100 at the Battle Tower as I have never done that before. I am going to start a new game and I was thinking to try the Werster team. Werster team is quite friendly, fun and easy to use. It is straightforward, does not involve a lot of tactics and has only offensive moves (almost). However, as I am playing on Pokemon Sapphire I can only catch Latias and due to a programming error the Latias will be really bad in terms of IVs (something like x/x/0/0/0/0). At best I can RNG a good nature Latias as I have a dry battery. Even if I go for a good nature Latias it is going to be quite tedious because I do not have Latias in my Pokedex. So I need to do the famous trick on Route 110 over and over again if I fail RNGing every time. Moreover, I can not teach Explosion to Metagross. I do not have a second Gameboy/game to trade with. Also, I can not grow berries due to the dry battery. Therefore, I have to be careful with EV training. Especially Tamato Berry, which I can only get once. On the other hand, from what I understand, Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire Battle Tower is pretty easy compared to the Emerald one. Do you guys think Werster team is strong enough, even with a bad Latias and no Explosion? Or do you guys have any other ideas on the team to use? And do you guys think that breeding will be necessary?
Sapphire battle tower is easier than Emerald's, as the former only consists of Hoenn pokemon (at least, I think this is the case). As a kid I managed to get 100+ wins using a team of Latias+Metagross+Ludicolo. The team was produced purely on a Sapphire cartridge so Latias had the obligatory bad IVs (can't remember if she had a good nature), and Metagross didn't have explosion.
From memory I think the sets were something like
Latias @ Lum Berry: Calm Mind / Psychic / Thunderbolt / Recover
Metagross @ Brightpowder: Meteor Mash / Earthquake / Shadow Ball / Aerial Ace
Ludicolo @ Leftovers: Leech Seed / Protect / Rest / Dive
In the case of Ludicolo, I bred like 3 boxes and picked the best one [edit: In Sapphire, everstone doesn't let you pass on natures, the flame body ability doesn't halve the number of steps needed to hatch an egg, and the RNG is much less exploitable, so there's only so far you can get from breeding], and with Metagross I soft reset at Steven's house until an Adamant Metagross showed up with decent (but not spectacular) IVs. So I think it's entirely possible for you to win with Werster's team, despite the difficulties you mention.
PS: Not being able to get tamato berries etc. is basically no problem at all since if you plan in advance how you are going to EV train, you will never need them. Not having a lum berry might be a pain - the gentleman in Lilycove city will only ever give you one berry owing to your dead battery. *Hopefully* it is possible to save just before you talk to him and then soft reset until he gives you the right berry.
Any decently competitive team will do the trick on the RS Tower. The AI is significantly dumber in RS (Ex: The AI will continue to attack your Levitate users with Earthquake and they fail to completely recognize Substitute) to the point that it is basically an Easy Mode of Emerald. Also the pool of available Pokemon is limited to the 201 Pokemon found in the RS Pokedex (No Lapras or Blissey). Just take into account a few things:
- The Pomeg, Kelpsy, Qualot, Grepa and Tamato berries didn't had their EV reducing effects until Emerald. Emerald is the only game in which you will ever be able to reduce a Pokemon's EVs.
- Any decent breedject will be able to overcome the RS Tower. Just check Serebii's egg move pages on the RS Pokedex so you can get the necessary moves on your Pokemon.
- If you're using Werster's team, it will be fine.
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Indeed, Pokemon Sapphire consists only of Hoenn Pokemons. Concerning the Lum Berry, it is possible to save in front of the man in Lilycove and soft reset until you get the Lum Berry.
I am leaning towards Werster team as it seems really fun to use so nice to hear Werster team is fine to reach the 100 consecutive wins at level 100. Currently I am considering to speedrun with a manipulated Mudkip to unlock Beldum and Latias as quickly as possible and then use the berries on Swampert to EV train Swampert accordingly. However, that does not seem to work as the berries do not have reducing effects?
Ahhh, I'm afraid that that mechanic didn't exist until Emerald added it. Those six Berries were originally just for PokéBlocks. You might need to breed a Mudkip again after beating the game - or if you haven't already started, just box the Mudkip you RNG right away and use something else until you're ready to train it. (Fortunately, the only mandatory battles before you can catch other Pokémon will not be enough to stop you from getting 508 EVs in any stats you like, so this should still be safe!)
Disclaimer: I have not personally tried this.
There might be a glitch you can use to iron out the IVs of your Latios, but it would take considerable effort. Essentially it involves finding a Latios in the tower at a high enough streak for it to appear and have good IVs, losing to it, then doing the route 110 thing to encounter your roamer.
There are a lot of reasons you might not want to do this. If you're obsessive about IVs it is an option without emerald, however.
Edit: Yup the below is one of the plenty of reasons not to do this. It just didn't seem like you knew about it which is why I'm throwing it out there.
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The problem with this method in Roodssalg's case is that the Latios you get will have a random nature. So in order to get a good nature, you will have to reach 49+ wins in the Battle Tower multiple times, which only makes sense time-investment wise if you have a team that can reach 49+ wins consistently. But if you have a team that can reach 49+ wins consistently you should also be able to reach 100 wins considering how bad the AI in the RS tower is, which then defeats the purpose of going for the Latios in the first place.
Edit: If anyone is interested to try this glitch on emulator, I wrote a lua-script that shows you the nature the second and third pokemon of your opponent in the tower will have when caught as roamers, which saves much resetting time.
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Quick update to my Battle Factory streaks:
Battle Factory Doubles Open Level - 36 Streak (ended)
Went back to Doubles and managed to break my record.
I won't go into as much detail as in my last post, but some brief highlights:
Round 1 didn't make any notes but swapped 7 times
Round 2 Scizor Lapras Metagross
Got around a lot of threats by switching Metagross in for Scizor. Swapped quite a few times until I settled on Lapras.
Round 3 Slaking Walrein Weezing
Choice Band Slaking is good in Factory, too. Either the foe was KO'd by Slaking, or OHKO'd by Walrein's Sheer Cold or Fissure. Weezing was a really good third, as I could bring it in for Walrein on Turn 1 which gave Slaking a free Earthquake.
Round 4 Nidoqueen Gengar Swampert
In the first six battles, Nidoqueen/Gengar swept every time. Excellent coverage, free Earthquakes, and a bit of luck. Eventually I was almost undone in Battle 7: Faced Medicham-4 and Meganium-4. Medicham got a first-turn OHKO with Psychic on Gengar, and Meganium got a second-turn OHKO on Swampert with Giga Drain. Nidoqueen eventually got a KO on Meganium with Aerial Ace, but it was 1v2 and the next Pokemon in was Swords Dance Marowak. Managed to KO Medicham with Earthquake and did ~60% damage to Marowak, but Marowak retaliated with... Swords Dance. KO'd it on the next turn, but it was a lucky escape.
Round 5 Altaria Tyranitar Walrein
Actually started off with Altaria/Donphan/Ursaring on this round, which was an abysmal set considering Battle 1 was against Tyranitar. I managed to battle through, swapped Donphan for Tyranitar, and the rest was relatively easy. Once again, free EQs for Tyranitar made a lot of difference, although I did rely on Walrein hax in a couple of situations. Got lucky in one battle where the final foe was Espeon 1v1 with Tyranitar and it only had Psychic. Luckily didn't see any seriously threatening Pokemon save for Regirock.
Round 6 Regice Kingdra Dusclops
Regice and Kingdra actually made a good starting pair for all of two battles. I got unlucky in that Dusclops wasn't very good and I had no chances to swap it. I faced Rhydon-2/Latias in Battle 2. Rhydon's Quick Claw activated for Earthquake, and Latias made light work of Kingdra then survived an Ice Beam from Regice. Regice was 2HKO'd by Rhydon's Earthquake, unfortunately, which was my downfall (although it brought Wailord into KO range with ally damage on turn 2). Left with 1v1 Dusclops against Rhydon and it outsped for the Earthquake KO on turn 3.
Pretty pleased with a run of 36, and I definitely think with a few refinements I could get to 42 and beyond.
Battle Factory Doubles Open Level - 36 Streak (ended)
Went back to Doubles and managed to break my record.
I won't go into as much detail as in my last post, but some brief highlights:
Round 1 didn't make any notes but swapped 7 times
Round 2 Scizor Lapras Metagross
Got around a lot of threats by switching Metagross in for Scizor. Swapped quite a few times until I settled on Lapras.
Round 3 Slaking Walrein Weezing
Choice Band Slaking is good in Factory, too. Either the foe was KO'd by Slaking, or OHKO'd by Walrein's Sheer Cold or Fissure. Weezing was a really good third, as I could bring it in for Walrein on Turn 1 which gave Slaking a free Earthquake.
Round 4 Nidoqueen Gengar Swampert
In the first six battles, Nidoqueen/Gengar swept every time. Excellent coverage, free Earthquakes, and a bit of luck. Eventually I was almost undone in Battle 7: Faced Medicham-4 and Meganium-4. Medicham got a first-turn OHKO with Psychic on Gengar, and Meganium got a second-turn OHKO on Swampert with Giga Drain. Nidoqueen eventually got a KO on Meganium with Aerial Ace, but it was 1v2 and the next Pokemon in was Swords Dance Marowak. Managed to KO Medicham with Earthquake and did ~60% damage to Marowak, but Marowak retaliated with... Swords Dance. KO'd it on the next turn, but it was a lucky escape.
Round 5 Altaria Tyranitar Walrein
Actually started off with Altaria/Donphan/Ursaring on this round, which was an abysmal set considering Battle 1 was against Tyranitar. I managed to battle through, swapped Donphan for Tyranitar, and the rest was relatively easy. Once again, free EQs for Tyranitar made a lot of difference, although I did rely on Walrein hax in a couple of situations. Got lucky in one battle where the final foe was Espeon 1v1 with Tyranitar and it only had Psychic. Luckily didn't see any seriously threatening Pokemon save for Regirock.
Round 6 Regice Kingdra Dusclops
Regice and Kingdra actually made a good starting pair for all of two battles. I got unlucky in that Dusclops wasn't very good and I had no chances to swap it. I faced Rhydon-2/Latias in Battle 2. Rhydon's Quick Claw activated for Earthquake, and Latias made light work of Kingdra then survived an Ice Beam from Regice. Regice was 2HKO'd by Rhydon's Earthquake, unfortunately, which was my downfall (although it brought Wailord into KO range with ally damage on turn 2). Left with 1v1 Dusclops against Rhydon and it outsped for the Earthquake KO on turn 3.
Pretty pleased with a run of 36, and I definitely think with a few refinements I could get to 42 and beyond.
Hi everyone, I'm still trying my luck in the tower. First of all, congrats to Kommo-o and Adedede for their absurdly high streaks.
I'm currently on an ongoing streak of 420 wins, with my new Trick + Double Sweeper team.
Linoone @ Choice Band
Timid
Pickup
252HP, 6Def, 252Spd
- Trick
- Charm
- Thunder Wave
- Roar
Registeel @ Leftovers
Adamant
IVs: 11SpA, 30SpD
240HP, 188Atk, 70Def, 12Spd
- Hidden Power Steel
- Curse
- Substitute
- Amnesia
Latios @ Lum Berry
Timid
172HP, 108Def, 4SpA, 4SpD, 220Spe
- Dragon Claw
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Recover
I'm currently on an ongoing streak of 420 wins, with my new Trick + Double Sweeper team.
The team is pretty straightforward. The idea is to Trick a Choice Band and then have two set-up sweepers with good defensive synergy in the back, so that one of them can always set up, no matter which move the opponent is locked into. For the two sweepers I chose Latios and Registeel, because between eachother, they resist every type in the game. As a Tricker I use Linoone, which, while slightly less consistent in getting Trick off than Alakazam, has access to Charm and Roar, both of which are required for my strategy.
Linoone @ Choice Band
Timid
Pickup
252HP, 6Def, 252Spd
- Trick
- Charm
- Thunder Wave
- Roar
- Use Trick against everything, except Metagross, STAB Double-Edge users, strong Fighting-types and Muk.
- After that, either switch to Latios if the opponent is locked into a setup or status move, use Charm against physical attackers or special attackers locked into a low PP move or Thunder Wave against everything else.
- Against STAB Double-Edge users, strong Fighting-types and Muk, use Charm from the get-go.
- Against Metagross, select Roar and hope you don't get crit.
Registeel @ Leftovers
Adamant
IVs: 11SpA, 30SpD
240HP, 188Atk, 70Def, 12Spd
- Hidden Power Steel
- Curse
- Substitute
- Amnesia
- Essentially Kommo-o's set from DDW, but with SpD EVs put into Def, since it only needs to come in on resisted Special Attacks.
- Because it is slower than everything when fully setup, to be safe you have to learn to anticipate moves that could break your subs, and get a new one up in advance.
Latios @ Lum Berry
Timid
172HP, 108Def, 4SpA, 4SpD, 220Spe
- Dragon Claw
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Recover
- Literally Adedede's set from Irridescence.
- While the set might be stolen from Adedede, the Latios itself was stolen from Collector Vance in the RS Tower.
- Sadly it is not bulky enough to sub up against some choice-locked fighting moves, which forces me to use Charm with Linoone instead of Trick.
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The biggest threat to this team and the reason I use Roar on Linoone. If it crits through Linoone (which for some reason seems to happen all the time), I have to try and swap-stall it with Latios and Registeel, which can work depending on the set, but is very risky on sets with Explosion, or when Meteor Mash boosts come into play.
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Regirock-5 can't be Charmed because of Clear Body and Focus Punch is too strong for Latios to sub up on. As long as doesn't crit Latios twice in a row (which actually happened in a test streak), I can just PP stall all its Focus Punches with Latios (as seen in the video).
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I can't Charm instead of Trick against Golem, since it might be packing Explosion and I don't want to give it the freedom to choose that. If it turns out to be Golem-2 with Focus Punch, I have the same problem as with Regirock.
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Has to be swap-stalled after using Charm instead of Trick with Linoone, which can get scary if it gets too many crits.
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The team has no way of hitting this thing. Normaly PP stalling it isn't too much of a problem, but if I have Latios in and Shedinja comes out as the second pokemon, thing can get awkward.
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This thing somehow really likes to double crit through Registeels sub and kill it with Earthquake. I actually lost a previous streak to two Earthquake crits, follows by a QC-Explosion on Latios.
- There's probably other stuff which I'm forgetting right now.
This is a video of my battles from 399-420. You can actually see most of the threats I mentioned coming up in this sample streak (and see me slightly misplay against some of them; against Regirock and Armaldo I should have switched to Registeel after they started struggling.
How do you obtain a Registeel with such a specific IV spread? Waiting for the right method 1 frame to come up is surely impractical?
I did the RNG on Sapphire, since changing the date of your system gives you access to different starting seeds, which gives you access to a bigger range of spreads. I'm not an expert on RNG, so there might be an easier way, but the way I did it was using the "Searcher" feature in Pokefinder (second tab in Gen 3 Stationary) which then gives you the option to look for a specific spread. You then right-click the desired spread and select "Generate times for seed", this then gives you the time and date you need to set your system to before starting the game in the emulator and the frame you need to hit.
So decided to re-design the tier-list after some thought process and since more people are active on this thread, figured I could ask for everyone's opinion on this. I'll also add descriptions on the top 10-20 Pokemon and figured I could make this for Frontier overall:
S+ Rank
The most broken Pokemon of Generation III. There's a reason why Game Freak disabled Soul Dew's effects on battle facilities but it's not that Latios cares a lot about it anyways because this absolute monster is still able to run through teams like a hot knife on butter with very little support. Base 110 Speed and 130 Special Attack are incredible stats for a sweeper on this generation. While its typing has plenty of weaknesses to Dark, Bug, Ghost, Ice and Dragon, it also grants it plenty of resistances to Fire, Electric, Grass, Water & Fighting to set up. Access to Calm Mind means that Latios not only gains a way to boost itself for higher damage output but also gains durability from the special side as even with a +1 boost, it is good enough to avoid being 2HKO'd by non-STAB Ice Beams (except for a critical hit). Latios also has decent defenses and while they don't make it incredibly durable, they are good enough for him to stay on the field as long as it needs. Latios shines on almost any facility because its offensive attributes are simply too good to pass and most of the time you will only end up making very few modifications on its moveset to win Gold Symbols on almost any facility.
The queen of Generation III. Her incredible 255 base HP and her humongous base 135 SpD makes Blissey the best special wall in the game. No special sweeper in Gen III is capable of getting past her gargantuan special defense and it's almost guaranteed that Blissey will always end up coming on top. While her physical defense is pitiful, you can actually invest on it allowing her to become impervious against most physical attacks bar Choice Banded STABs and Fighting moves. Access to Natural Care, Aromatherapy, Softboiled and Toxic makes it an incredible support Pokemon for teams to abuse her cleric abilities in other facilities such as Pike, Tower and Pyramid where she can heal her teammates from status or replenish her teammate's HP with Softboiled's field effect. Her ridiculous bulk and access to recovery makes it easy to use on almost any facility team, except for Arena, and without a doubt the best Pokemon available for the Battle Frontier.
What do you get when you combine incredible durability with a solid defensive typing, Pressure, Calm Mind and decent Speed? You get an unstoppable force of nature. Suicune is the frightening combination of bulk, offense and speed making it capable of not only sweeping teams by itself once fully set-up but even those Pokemon meant to wall Suicune (Quagsire, Lapras and Vaporeon) are unable to stop it at some extent thanks to its absurdly high defenses and Pressure depleting their PP. Despite its special attack not being great, Calm Mind allows Suicune to reach high damage outputs by boosting its Special Attack and combined with its sheer bulk, it's very easy for Suicune to set up all the way up to +6, with very few Pokemon capable of damaging it greatly without a super-effective move. With a Ground type, it is very easy to fit into many teams and swap stalling is also something Suicune can easily abuse thanks to Pressure. While Suicune shines the most on Tower and Dome runs, it can decently do well on other facilities, although depending of the restrictions in place (such as the ones in Palace or Arena) it may be difficult to use outside the Battle Tower and Battle Dome.
S Rank
This super computer doesn't really needs a lot of tinkering to deliver over 1200 kilograms of pain. Metagross has an incredible stat distribution where it has been blessed by a titanic base 135 Attack combined with a great physical movepool and decent defenses which grants it great endurance even without investment. Its movepool grants it all the coverage options it needs on Earthquake and Shadow Ball while being the only Steel type with the stronget Steel STAB available in the game with Meteor Mash. If you're lucky enough to consistently land hits and get an Attack boost, Meteor Mash will destroy teams single-handedly. With a Choice Band, Metagross will easily tear through anything that doesn't resists its coverage moves and it can even run some Spe EVs to outrun specific defensive threats such as Milotic without sacrificing a lot of bulk. It also gains access to Explosion which is a powerful nuke that completely annihilates Curse users, such as Snorlax and Umbreon, blowing them up into smithereens until kingdom comes.
It's only drawback comes from the fact that Metagross' Speed is just plain average which means that it will be outspeed by threats such as Alakazam and Gengar who can potentially KO with a critical hit and it will easily get destroyed by strong and faster specially based Fire types such as Moltres or Houndoom. Other than that, it is a very easy Pokemon to use and fit on many facility teams due to its balanced stats, a great amount of resistances and its fantastic movepool.
It's only drawback comes from the fact that Metagross' Speed is just plain average which means that it will be outspeed by threats such as Alakazam and Gengar who can potentially KO with a critical hit and it will easily get destroyed by strong and faster specially based Fire types such as Moltres or Houndoom. Other than that, it is a very easy Pokemon to use and fit on many facility teams due to its balanced stats, a great amount of resistances and its fantastic movepool.
Once this monster goes apeshit, your opponent's Pokemon are going down like a miserable pile of swatted flies. Slaking's base stat distribution (670) is the same one legendary Pokemon such as Groudon have and with a base 160 Attack along with a Choice Band, it is almost guaranteed to get a kill on the turns that Truant allows it to move. Slaking also has decent physical bulk and a large base HP, allowing it to tank some hits from physical threats such as Metagross or Snorlax. Hyper Beam, Double-Edge, Earthquake and Shadow Ball all provide immense damage and coverage to any threat in the Frontier.
Because of these attributes and great Speed tier, Slaking rules dominantly on short format fights in facilities such as Dome and Pyramid where Truant has little or no influence on the outcome of the match. It also does decently on Tower although for every turn you'll be usually forced out which kills your momentum and it is highly undesired.
Truth be told, Slaking is not without flaws. Besides the inherent problem of having Truant as an ability, Slaking has no inherent protection against OHKO moves or status, as it will almost always have a Choice Band and no Substitute. If Slaking is unable to OHKO the opposing Pokemon, it can present a problem if the opponent begins to set up or cripple Slaking, severely reducing its utility.
Because of these attributes and great Speed tier, Slaking rules dominantly on short format fights in facilities such as Dome and Pyramid where Truant has little or no influence on the outcome of the match. It also does decently on Tower although for every turn you'll be usually forced out which kills your momentum and it is highly undesired.
Truth be told, Slaking is not without flaws. Besides the inherent problem of having Truant as an ability, Slaking has no inherent protection against OHKO moves or status, as it will almost always have a Choice Band and no Substitute. If Slaking is unable to OHKO the opposing Pokemon, it can present a problem if the opponent begins to set up or cripple Slaking, severely reducing its utility.
Salamence is arguably one of the best sweepers of this generation and that has proven to be true throughout the years. A great stat distribution where its offensive stats and great Speed gets the highlight, very few things are able to stop Salamence's sweep after a couple of boosts. HP Flying is a reliable STAB that gets a respectable amount of kills after a Dragon Dance and it gets Earthquake to complement its coverage with the whole purpose of punishing Steel and Rock types who think they are safe from its onslaught. It also gets Intimidate which is one of the best abilities on this game allowing Salamence to take advantage of weakened physical attackers and get more opportunities to set up Dragon Dances thanks to Intimidate.
It's biggest drawback comes from the fact that because this Trumpet Seaworld region has too much water (7/10), any water type and its mother will surely have an Ice Beam ready to obliterate Salamence's dream of sweeping its team. Also, if you can't afford running HP Flying, Aerial Ace is its second best STAB which due to its pathetic base power, it is simply unable to grab kills even at +1 or +2. But hey, at least it won't miss against Double Team spammers which is something.
Salamence is one of the few Pokemon that does incredibly well on almost any facility: Intimidate reduces the encounter rate on Pyramid / Pike, it only needs a single boost to wreck havoc on Arena, it dominates both Dome and Tower and it can effectively use HASTY™ on Palace. Truth be told, Salamence will always be a great choice on almost any team you can slap it into as long as you cover for its awful x4 weakness to Ice.
It's biggest drawback comes from the fact that because this Trumpet Seaworld region has too much water (7/10), any water type and its mother will surely have an Ice Beam ready to obliterate Salamence's dream of sweeping its team. Also, if you can't afford running HP Flying, Aerial Ace is its second best STAB which due to its pathetic base power, it is simply unable to grab kills even at +1 or +2. But hey, at least it won't miss against Double Team spammers which is something.
Salamence is one of the few Pokemon that does incredibly well on almost any facility: Intimidate reduces the encounter rate on Pyramid / Pike, it only needs a single boost to wreck havoc on Arena, it dominates both Dome and Tower and it can effectively use HASTY™ on Palace. Truth be told, Salamence will always be a great choice on almost any team you can slap it into as long as you cover for its awful x4 weakness to Ice.
Gengar's great speed tier, expansive movepool and it's actually great defensive typing combined with Levitate makes it a really awesome Pokemon to use in Frontier. You'll never want to run fully offensive sets because Gengar has no special STABs on this generation which hampers a lot its offensive potential. However, Gengar has an incredible support moveset, often overlooked, and with options such as Taunt, Destiny Bond and even Perish Song, if you know how to use these at your own advantage, you got a solid Pokemon that can shine on many facilities. It's also worth to mention that because of its Ghost typing and Levitate, Gengar is only vulnerable to Sheer Cold from all OHKO moves available.
It's main flaws relies on the fact that its defenses are paper thin and even if you invest bulk on Gengar, any respectable super-effective STAB will destroy it. With Psychic types being very common on this generation, Gengar can't really do a lot to them unless it involves taking them down with him via Destiny Bond assuming you're ok with losing him on the process. Destiny Bond is pretty OP on Dome and has great utility on Tower. Gengar also deserves a mention for being one of the best Pokemon to use in Arena thanks to Destiny Bond guaranteeing a kill against something Gengar can't win and it can even effectively use Explosion on Arena to get rid of a special wall like Blissey and Snorlax.
PS: You are a complete noob if you're using 4 attacks on a Gengar.
It's main flaws relies on the fact that its defenses are paper thin and even if you invest bulk on Gengar, any respectable super-effective STAB will destroy it. With Psychic types being very common on this generation, Gengar can't really do a lot to them unless it involves taking them down with him via Destiny Bond assuming you're ok with losing him on the process. Destiny Bond is pretty OP on Dome and has great utility on Tower. Gengar also deserves a mention for being one of the best Pokemon to use in Arena thanks to Destiny Bond guaranteeing a kill against something Gengar can't win and it can even effectively use Explosion on Arena to get rid of a special wall like Blissey and Snorlax.
PS: You are a complete noob if you're using 4 attacks on a Gengar.
While Latios outclasses Latias on almost every role possible as an Offensive CM or even as a SubCM sweeper, there is but one small but valuable role in which Latias can actually justify its slot over Latios which is being one of the best cripplers on this Generation. Latias' higher defenses and access to Charm, Flash, Mud Slap and Thunder Wave makes her a reliable crippler Pokemon easy to fit in with other bulky sweepers such as Snorlax, Gyarados or Registeel. It even gets Wish which is nice in case you feel creative on doing more experimentation!
As a sweeper, Latias pretty much has similar strengths and weaknesses similar to what Latios has, however, while her defenses are much higher and lets her survive more attacks, her lower damage output is kind of underwhelming even after a couple of Calm Mind boosts. Despite this, she does pretty well overall on the mayority of the facilities, and despite being outclassed by Latios on the offensive route, she can still do great with access to Calm Mind, an expansive movepool and higher defenses than her brother.
As a sweeper, Latias pretty much has similar strengths and weaknesses similar to what Latios has, however, while her defenses are much higher and lets her survive more attacks, her lower damage output is kind of underwhelming even after a couple of Calm Mind boosts. Despite this, she does pretty well overall on the mayority of the facilities, and despite being outclassed by Latios on the offensive route, she can still do great with access to Calm Mind, an expansive movepool and higher defenses than her brother.
A+ Rank
Steelix is IMO the 2nd best Steel type of this generation and trust me, me and Adedede spent a hell lot of our time to put some respect on its name. While its overall BST is not that impressive outside that outstanding base 200 Defense, Steelix possesses a unique type combination which grants it 9 resistances and two immunities only for the price of 4 weaknesses. It also possesses Sturdy which is a fantastic ability to block and laugh at Lapras 8's miserable attempts on doing anything relevant in front of it.
The CB set is the most splashable one facility-wise because it gains a respectable amount of power with the item and it does very well on the Dome and Pyramid (with Steelix having a super favorable match-up against Brandon's Silver and Gold parties). However, if you aim for higher streaks on the Tower, you definitely want to use the Calm Protect + Torment set I built with my friend Thomaz. Because most Pokemon rely on a single coverage move to hurt Steelix, after a Protect Steelix can easily block said move and recover the lost HP on a move that is not threatening towards it while stalling out the opponent.
Steelix also has its flaws which means that despite its huge defensive prowess, Steelix falls down to special Fire and Water attacks which significantly hurt it a lot. While Steelix can shrug off any non-STAB Ground and Fight attack, STAB users like Machamp or Flygon are an issue. However, Sturdy and its immunity to OHKO attacks makes up for its shortcomings and it is a very good Pokemon to use on this Generation, much more than what you can think of.
The CB set is the most splashable one facility-wise because it gains a respectable amount of power with the item and it does very well on the Dome and Pyramid (with Steelix having a super favorable match-up against Brandon's Silver and Gold parties). However, if you aim for higher streaks on the Tower, you definitely want to use the Calm Protect + Torment set I built with my friend Thomaz. Because most Pokemon rely on a single coverage move to hurt Steelix, after a Protect Steelix can easily block said move and recover the lost HP on a move that is not threatening towards it while stalling out the opponent.
Steelix also has its flaws which means that despite its huge defensive prowess, Steelix falls down to special Fire and Water attacks which significantly hurt it a lot. While Steelix can shrug off any non-STAB Ground and Fight attack, STAB users like Machamp or Flygon are an issue. However, Sturdy and its immunity to OHKO attacks makes up for its shortcomings and it is a very good Pokemon to use on this Generation, much more than what you can think of.
Greatly balanced stats, two strong STABs and an awesome defensive typing with only one weakness, there's a reason why Werster used Swampert on his speedrun team. STAB Ground attacks are incredibly powerful on this generation and Swampert is easily capable of destroying Pokemon such as opposing Metagross and it also gains access to Ice Beam to put Salamence on its toes. It's STAB Surf is also a great offensive move Swampert can rely on to hit targets like Golem and Rhydon who take more damage from it than Earthquake. It's biggest strength relies on its immunity to Electric types which allows it to beat very easily Pokemon like Jolteon or Zapdos. It also brings a sturdy Rock resistance which is very welcome against Pokemon like Regirock or Tyranitar (if you are on Open Level).
One of its main issues comes from the fact that Swampert "doesn't knows" what exactly it wants to be due to its too well-balanced stats. There's not really a stat you want to hinder because even by adding Spe EVs on a -Spe nature it has a valuable niche (Which is what Werster used on his run) and as a result, there's no ideal EV spread for Swampert which makes it complicated to use it. As a Water type, it's lack of an Ice and Water resistance makes it a very shaky answer against its own kindred; unlike Pokemon like Suicune, Milotic or even Vaporeon, Swampert has an unfavorable match-up against opposing Water types because it gets hit neutrally from them and critical hits can easily take it down. Also, it's lack of recovery outside Rest makes it very easy to worn out on longer games which is not ideal. Despite these flaws, Swampert is still a great Pokemon to use and one that will never disappoint you if your team needs an Electric immunity.
One of its main issues comes from the fact that Swampert "doesn't knows" what exactly it wants to be due to its too well-balanced stats. There's not really a stat you want to hinder because even by adding Spe EVs on a -Spe nature it has a valuable niche (Which is what Werster used on his run) and as a result, there's no ideal EV spread for Swampert which makes it complicated to use it. As a Water type, it's lack of an Ice and Water resistance makes it a very shaky answer against its own kindred; unlike Pokemon like Suicune, Milotic or even Vaporeon, Swampert has an unfavorable match-up against opposing Water types because it gets hit neutrally from them and critical hits can easily take it down. Also, it's lack of recovery outside Rest makes it very easy to worn out on longer games which is not ideal. Despite these flaws, Swampert is still a great Pokemon to use and one that will never disappoint you if your team needs an Electric immunity.
Starmie is basically a poor man's Lati@s or at least your excuse of not being able to use an Eon Dragon with decent IVs. It's amazing Speed and respectable Special Attack combined with its simple yet incredible coverage options makes it a great Pokemon to use as a lead if you decide to use it. Thanks to Natural Care, Starmie can easily switch out and heal its status ailments which prevents paralysis from permanently crippling it.
Due to the incredibly limited item options in Gen 3 for a sweeper, Starmie doesn't has an ideal item (sigh, if only Life Orb or Expert Belt were introduced a generation sooner) which makes it awkward to decide upon. Starmie's defenses are not that good and pretty much anything that is able to take a hit from Starmie and able to hit back with super-effective moves, will surely take it down. Unfortunately, Starmie does lags behind the Lati@s due to their access to Calm Mind and higher Special Attack, however, Starmie's coverage is an appealing option for teams who are looking for Gold symbols only and it won't disappoint as your special attacker of choice.
Due to the incredibly limited item options in Gen 3 for a sweeper, Starmie doesn't has an ideal item (sigh, if only Life Orb or Expert Belt were introduced a generation sooner) which makes it awkward to decide upon. Starmie's defenses are not that good and pretty much anything that is able to take a hit from Starmie and able to hit back with super-effective moves, will surely take it down. Unfortunately, Starmie does lags behind the Lati@s due to their access to Calm Mind and higher Special Attack, however, Starmie's coverage is an appealing option for teams who are looking for Gold symbols only and it won't disappoint as your special attacker of choice.
Flygon is one of my personal favorites and while you might be wondering what does it brings ahead of Salamence or Lati@s the answer is simple: STAB Earthquake. With a Choice Band, Flygon is guaranteed to kill any Rock or Steel type outside Regirock or Skarm (obvious) with its STAB Earthquake while dealing huge damage to anything that is hit neutrally to it. It also gains access to Rock Slide which hits whatever is immune or resistant to Earthquake which pretty much complements its coverage.
That's where my praise of Flygon ends though. One of my main issues on using it is that it is very difficult to teambuild with. Flygon can't really use any other item such as Choice Band which makes it harder to balance with a Pokemon like Metagross who also needs the item. It's other two moves outside Rock Slide and Earthquake are pretty much filler. Fire Blast could be used but you'll need a significant amount of SpA EVs in order to kill Forretress and Scizor while it remains as its only option to defeat Skarmory because Flamethrower is so pitifully weak. Fly is an option but simply because for some odd reason Game Freak couldn't put Aerial Ace on its moveset for this generation. Quick Attack works for Reversal Medicham and Heracross, I guess. Flygon excels on facilities such as the Pyramid, Dome and Pike. It can even do decently well on Tower, however, its inferior stats and defenses makes it difficult to justify its place compared to Salamence who has Intimidate to support its teammates and can set up with Dragon Dance, while Lati@s have access to Calm Mind and higher Speed. Despite these shortcomings, Flygon can be a solid pick for people who are looking for a decently fast STAB Earthquake user.
That's where my praise of Flygon ends though. One of my main issues on using it is that it is very difficult to teambuild with. Flygon can't really use any other item such as Choice Band which makes it harder to balance with a Pokemon like Metagross who also needs the item. It's other two moves outside Rock Slide and Earthquake are pretty much filler. Fire Blast could be used but you'll need a significant amount of SpA EVs in order to kill Forretress and Scizor while it remains as its only option to defeat Skarmory because Flamethrower is so pitifully weak. Fly is an option but simply because for some odd reason Game Freak couldn't put Aerial Ace on its moveset for this generation. Quick Attack works for Reversal Medicham and Heracross, I guess. Flygon excels on facilities such as the Pyramid, Dome and Pike. It can even do decently well on Tower, however, its inferior stats and defenses makes it difficult to justify its place compared to Salamence who has Intimidate to support its teammates and can set up with Dragon Dance, while Lati@s have access to Calm Mind and higher Speed. Despite these shortcomings, Flygon can be a solid pick for people who are looking for a decently fast STAB Earthquake user.
Milotic or commonly aka "the Suicune replacement" as a bad taste joke for April Fool's. Milotic is a pretty good Pokemon on its own if you know exactly what its role is supposed to mean to. One of its biggest niches steams from the fact that since it gains access to instant recovery unlike Suicune, Milotic can pretty much free its last moveslot deciding on how it wants to support its team. Base 81 Speed is pretty good since with Icy Wind, it can outrun base uninvested 100s like Salamence 4 and defeat them 1-v-1. Also, since its Special Attack is higher, it can effectively use Ice Beam since it will definitely take out big chunks of health from its targets. Toxic is also a good move since it lets Milotic wall most of its kindred and put them on timer (shame that Gyarados 4 will beat you regardless). It's recommended to invest firstmost on its physical defense as this will allow Milotic to act as a great mixed wall capable of tanking most physical hits while its sky high Special Defense allows it to even survive STAB super-effective hits on a pinch and cripple the opponent.
The only flaw I can think on Milotic is that since it lacks Suicune's sweeping potential, it only limits itself to a defensive role which is inferior to what Blissey can already provide to a team. If you're looking for a bulky Water type that can provide a solid backbone, and you don't need Suicune's sweeping potential, Milotic can be a solid pick for your team.
PS: Please don't use him as a Suicune replacement. Milotic is a good Pokemon on its own, not on a role where you wish you had Cune instead.
The only flaw I can think on Milotic is that since it lacks Suicune's sweeping potential, it only limits itself to a defensive role which is inferior to what Blissey can already provide to a team. If you're looking for a bulky Water type that can provide a solid backbone, and you don't need Suicune's sweeping potential, Milotic can be a solid pick for your team.
PS: Please don't use him as a Suicune replacement. Milotic is a good Pokemon on its own, not on a role where you wish you had Cune instead.
A Rank
If you wanted a mouthful of Slaking's power without the negative effects of Truant, Tauros is the Normal type you are looking for. Its higher base 110 Speed actually allows Tauros to be faster than almost any Pokemon bar Crobat and Jolteon which will allow it to hit first than most threats. Intimidate is also a nice support ability as it allows Tauros to nerf physical attacks from the opponent. It also has a very wide movepool but having access to STAB Return, Hyper Beam and Double Edge combined with Earthquake and Hidden Power Ghost, gives Tauros everything it needs.
It's only disadvantage comes from the fact that it's weaker than Slaking. While Base 100 Attack is not bad by all means, it's underwhelming when you compare it to Slaking's titanic base 160 Attack. Despite this, it's higher Speed, Intimidate and decent Attack makes Tauros a very decent choice when it comes to fast all-out attackers.
It's only disadvantage comes from the fact that it's weaker than Slaking. While Base 100 Attack is not bad by all means, it's underwhelming when you compare it to Slaking's titanic base 160 Attack. Despite this, it's higher Speed, Intimidate and decent Attack makes Tauros a very decent choice when it comes to fast all-out attackers.
Having no special weaknesses as a Calm Mind sweeper makes Raikou a very underrated threat. Sitting on an even higher Speed tier than Lati@s, Raikou can easily outspeed a huge amount of threats. STAB Electric attacks are incredibly potent on this generation as they brutally murder the plethora of Water types Frontier will throw at you and Raikou only needs one Calm Mind to deep fry Walrein and Lapras, sending them back to the eggs they came from. With Ground being it's only weakness and having decent bulk, Raikou can destroy teams when fully set-up. A Levitator or a Pokemon like Salamence (who is immune to Ground and has Intimidate) make as fantastic partners allowing it to cover its Ground weakness.
Unfortunately, Raikou's weakness to Ground, a common coverage move for most physical attackers, allows them to overwhelm it easily. Raikou's movepool is also very poor as it has to rely on Hidden Power to get the coverage it needs, which means that depending on the type it chooses, Pokemon like Swampert or Flygon will wall it unless Raikou is at +6.
Unfortunately, Raikou's weakness to Ground, a common coverage move for most physical attackers, allows them to overwhelm it easily. Raikou's movepool is also very poor as it has to rely on Hidden Power to get the coverage it needs, which means that depending on the type it chooses, Pokemon like Swampert or Flygon will wall it unless Raikou is at +6.
Gyarados boast a similar role to what Salamence can do when it comes to perform as a Dragon Dance sweeper. It also has Intimidate which allows it to fit into most teams quite easily. However, the biggest niche Gyarados has over Salamence is on its great defensive typing and having no weakness to Ice. It's higher Special Defense and neutrality against Ice means that with some investment, Gyarados is the only Dragon Dance user capable of setting up into Water types like Swampert, Vaporeon or Milotic and beat them 1-v-1 unless they're lucky enough to get a freeze. It's great bulk, Intimidate and typing allows it to fit into teams where you don't want to use Salamence due to its Ice weakness and it allows it to synergize with other Dragon types like the Lati@s.
You definitely have to cover Gyarados' x4 weakness to Electric as almost any Electric type will murder Gyarados if it doesn't has a couple of boosts under its belt. It's weakness to Rock is also something that needs to be taken into consideration. Salamence's higher base Attack also outclasses Gyarados as a Flying STAB user, but despite these shortcomings, Gyarados is a fantastic choice for teams that can take advantage of its traits.
You definitely have to cover Gyarados' x4 weakness to Electric as almost any Electric type will murder Gyarados if it doesn't has a couple of boosts under its belt. It's weakness to Rock is also something that needs to be taken into consideration. Salamence's higher base Attack also outclasses Gyarados as a Flying STAB user, but despite these shortcomings, Gyarados is a fantastic choice for teams that can take advantage of its traits.
With its high base Attack and one of the few viable Bug STAB users, Heracross can easily demolish defensive threats thanks to its powerful STABs. It gets Brick Break which means that it can punish Umbreon and Snorlax. Its movepool is also pretty great as it can use Rock Slide, Earthquake and even Hidden Power Ghost as coverage options. Heracross has two great abilities in Swarm and Guts, but personally, I think Guts is the superior ability. With Guts, Heracross can use Facade which becomes almost like a pseudo-STAB capable of demolishing Weezing, specially when its inflicted by status. It also means that a burned or poisoned Heracross will only be more dangerous for the opponent to deal with. Guts also does fantasticly well in facilities such as Pyramid and Pike where it can exploit its boosted attacks by triggerring status ailments on purpose. It's Special Defense is also decent and Heracross has a decent Speed tier allowing to outspeed a good portion of the meta.
However, Heracross biggest flaw is its x4 weakness to Aerial Ace, a common coverage move carried by Normal types like Ursaring and Kangaskhan which are Pokemon that Heracross is supposed to beat. Additionally, its pitiful physical defense makes it hard to take hits from the physical side. While it may be a challenge to balance Heracross' weaknesses on a team, if you can take advantage of its strengths, Heracross will be a fantastic Pokemon that will hardly disappoint.
However, Heracross biggest flaw is its x4 weakness to Aerial Ace, a common coverage move carried by Normal types like Ursaring and Kangaskhan which are Pokemon that Heracross is supposed to beat. Additionally, its pitiful physical defense makes it hard to take hits from the physical side. While it may be a challenge to balance Heracross' weaknesses on a team, if you can take advantage of its strengths, Heracross will be a fantastic Pokemon that will hardly disappoint.
I present to you, the only true counter for Rhydon in Frontier. Skarmory's physical Defense and lack of weaknesses from this side, makes it almost impossible for physical attackers to get past Skarmory. Sturdy puts the icing on the cake as it becomes immune to OHKO moves. It has a great support movepool despite the lack of recovery and it has options such as Taunt or Whirlwind to prevent the opponent from setting up. It also has Toxic for that classic stall shenanigans. Despite its lack of recovery, ChestoRest works pretty well on Skarmory as it allows for another partner like Blissey to use its Leftovers instead.
Skarmory's biggest flaw is on its weaker Special Defense which plagues it with a weakness to Electric and Fire attacks. It's also on risk of getting flinched to death by Marowak or Armaldo who boast Swords Dance to overwhelm it. Neverless, Skamory is a very good Pokemon capable of helping you achieve high streaks on Tower while it can perform decently well on the other facilities.
Skarmory's biggest flaw is on its weaker Special Defense which plagues it with a weakness to Electric and Fire attacks. It's also on risk of getting flinched to death by Marowak or Armaldo who boast Swords Dance to overwhelm it. Neverless, Skamory is a very good Pokemon capable of helping you achieve high streaks on Tower while it can perform decently well on the other facilities.
A- Rank
Moltres
Vaporeon
Zapdos
Aerodactyl
Registeel
Tyranitar *
Snorlax
B+ Rank
Ludicolo
Regice
Gardevoir
Alakazam
Medicham
B Rank
Duslcops
Espeon
Scizor
Wobbuffet
Sceptile
Quagsire
B- Rank
Shedinja
Jolteon
Wobbufet
Porygon2
Ninetales
Magneton
Crobat
Umbreon
+C Rank
Breloom
Weezing
Blaziken
Linoone
Smeargle
Machamp
C Rank
Regirock
Meganium
Ursaring
Dodrio
Houndoom
Rhydon
-C Rank
Venusaur
Hitmonlee
Charizard
Dragonite *
Donphan
Arcanine
Articuno
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What exactly is the reasoning behind doing a single list for all facilities combined? Because if it is to help new players to put together a team that can achieve gold symbols in as many facilities as possible with the lowest number of pokemon, then I think availability should be considered as well, because it is essentially a time investment question. Or to put it in other words, if we expect the potential new user and reader of this list to put in the resources to get the best pokemon regardless of availability, then we can also expect him to make a specific team for each facility.
The point is to provide new users with the best chances of succeeding at Frontier while granting the highest options for teambuilding. I didn't factor availability in the end because the difference is massive once you get your hands on these Pokemon. As an example, you can mostly use Starmie as your Latios replacement in case you are unable to RNG one with good IVs, but if you ever had the chance to do so, would you really use Starmie? People often cite Milotic as a "Suicune" replacement but it doesn't comes close to achieve what Suicune does and to put it simply, if you really need Suicune but have no access to it, it's much better to simply build a different team where Suicune's role is not needed.
I pretty much consider what is on +S to +A a must on your cartridge / save file in order to grant you the best chances at succeeding in Gen 3. If availability was a factor, you can just simply use Werster's speedrun team.