5th Gen Speed Tiers

[shrang]

Okay, I know I haven't reserved this, so if you are working on it as well, I sincerely apologise. Anyway, I rushed up a quick Speed Tier list (After looking at the 4th gen one and adding possible 5th gen changes onto it). I know this is probably not the right format either, but I'm not going to bother with that at this stage. Here's version of the Speed Tiers, if I've missed anything, please let me know.

Format is Speed / Pokemon name / Base Speed / Nature / EV investment / Boost

Note 1: I did not include Dream World Pokemon apart from those that have been released (Venusaur is the only one I'm aware of), so stuff like Swift Swim Golduck or Speed Boost Blaziken I will not include now.
Note 2: About boosts stacking with weather (eg "+4 Omastar" is not actually "+4" but "+2" then add a "+2" boost, which is not "+4"), I went with the old style, so it's still written as something like +4 when it isn't actually +4.

Tier 0 (>180 Base Speed):

Hide

885 / Kingdra / 85 / +ve / 252 / +3
836 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +4
812 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / +4
807 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +3
750 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 176 / +3
728 / Erufuun / 116 / +ve / 252 / +2
700 / Jumpluff / 110 / +ve / 252 / +2
692 / Terakion, Kobaruon / 108 / +ve / 252 / +2
690 / Ninjask / 160 / +ve / 252 / +1
662 / Randorosu / 101 / +ve / 252 / +2
652 / Genosect / 99 / +ve / 252 / +2
630 / Terakion, Kobaruon / 108 / Neutral / 252 / +2
613 / Deoxys-S / 180 / Neutral / 52 / +1
612 / Lucario / 90 / +ve / 252 / +2
604 / Doryuuzu / 88 / +ve / 252 / +2
602 / Randorosu / 101 / Neutral / 252 / +2
594 / Genosect / 99 / Neutral / 252 / +2
594 / Groudon / 90 / +ve / 216 / +2
591 / Mewtwo / 130 / +ve / 252 / +1
590 / Qwilfish, Kingdra / 85 / +ve / 252 / +2
585 / Meloetta-S / 128 / +ve / 252 / +1
582 / Shaymin-S / 127 / +ve / 252 / +1
574 / Darkrai / 125 / +ve / 252 / +1
568 / Shiftry, Kabutops, Venusaur / 80 / +ve / 252 / +2
558 / Lucario / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +2
550 / Doryuuzu / 88 / Neutral / 252 / +2
546 / Cloyster / 75 / +ve / 252 / +2
541 / Azelf / 115 / +ve / 252 / +1
538 / Qwilfish, Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +2
585 / Meloetta-S / 128 / Neutral / 252 / +1
582 / Shaymin-S / 127 / Neutral / 252 / +1
525 / Latias, Latios, Gengar, Lugia / 110 / +ve / 252 / +1
524 / Ludicolo, Victreebel, Metagross, Kirikizan / 70 / +ve / 252 / +2
523 / Darkrai / 125 / Neutral / 252 / +1
519 / Terakion, Infernape, Kobaruon, Birijion, Kerudio / 108 / +ve / +1
518 / Shiftry, Kabutops, Venusaur / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +2
506 / Mew / 100 / Neutral / 68 / +2
504 / Deoxys-S / 180 / +ve / 252 / +0

Tier 1 (130 Base Speed to 180 Base Speed):

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500 / Groudon / 90 / Neutral / 136 / +2
500 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 176 / +2
499 / Garchomp / 102 / +ve / 252 / +1
498 / Cloyster / 75 / Neutral / 252 / +2
492 / Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Urugamosu, Victini, Shaymin / 100 / +ve / 252 / +1
489 / Genosect / 99 / +ve / 252 / +1
486 / Sazandora / 98 / +ve / 252 / +1
483 / Ononokusu / 97 / +ve / 252 / +1
478 / Ludicolo, Victreebel, Metagross, Kirikizan / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
475 / Rayquaza, Kyurem, Hihidaruma / 95 / +ve / 252 / +1
460 / Ninjask / 160 / +ve / 252 / +0
459 / Dialga, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Reshiram, Zekrom, Groudon, Lucario, Meloetta-V / 90 / +ve / 252 / +1
458 / Exeggutor / 55 / +ve / 252 / +2
445 / Genosect / 99 / Neutral / 252 / +1
442 / Heracross, Kingdra / 85 / +ve / 252 / +1
442 / Sazandora / 98 / Neutral / 252 / +1
439 / Ononokusu / 97 / Neutral / 252 / +1
438 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / +ve / 252 / +0
436 / Tangrowth / 50 / +ve / 252 / +2
433 / Rayquaza, Kyurem, Hihidaruma / 95 / Neutral / 252 / +1
427 / Agirudaa / 145 / +ve / 252 / +0
426 / Mamoswine, Shandera / 80 / +ve / 252 / +1
418 / Dialga, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Reshiram, Zekrom, Groudon, Lucario, Meloetta-V / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +1
418 / Exeggutor, Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
417 / Heatran / 77 / +ve / 252 / +1
406 / Gorebyss / 52 / +ve / 252 / +2
403 / Heracross, Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +1
399 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / Neutral / 252 / +0
394 / Mewtwo / 130 / +ve / 252 / +0

Tier 2 (Base 100 Speed to Base 130 Speed):

Hide

390 / Meloetta-S / 128 / +ve / 252 / +0
388 / Shaymin-S / 127 / +ve / 252 / +0
388 / Mamoswine, Shandera / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
383 / Darkrai, Weavile / 125 / +ve / 252 / +0
376 / Scizor / 65 / +ve / 252 / +1
375 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 176 / +1
372 / Arceus, Dugtrio / 120 / +ve / 252 / +0
364 / Tyranitar / 61 / +ve / 252 / +1
361 / Azelf / 115 / +ve / 252 / +0
360 / Magnezone, Abomasnow / 60 / +ve / 252 / +1
355 / Meloetta-S / 128 / Neutral / 252 / +0
353 / Shaymin-S / 127 / Neutral / 252 / +0
353 / Borutorosu, Torunerosu / 111 / +ve / 252 / +0
352 / Mewtwo / 130 / +ve / 96 / +0
352 / Arceus / 120 / +ve / 176 / +0
350 / Latias, Latios, Lugia, Gengar, Jumpluff, Espeon / 110 / +ve / 252 / +0
349 / Darkrai, Weavile / 125 / Neutral / 252 / +0
346 / Terakion, Infernape, Kobaruon, Birijion, Kerudio / 108 / +ve / 252 / +0
339 / Arceus, Dugtrio / 120 / Neutral / 252 / +0
334 / Latias, Lugia / 110 / +ve / 192 / +ve / +0
333 / Garchomp / 102 / +ve / 252 / +0
331 / Randorosu / 101 / +ve / 252 / +0
331 / Erufuun / 116 / Neutral / 252 / +0
328 / Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Urugamosu, Victini, Shaymin, Manaphy, Celebi / 100 / +ve / 252 / +0

Tier 3 (Base 70 Speed to Base 100 Speed):

Hide

326 / Genosect / 99 / +ve / 252 / +0
324 / Sazandora / 98 / +ve / 252 / +0
322 / Ononokusu / 97 / +ve / 252 / +0
321 / Borutorosu, Torunerosu / 111 / Neutral / 252 / +0
320 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 220 / +0
319 / Latias, Latios, Lugia / 110 / Neutral / 252 / +0
317 / Rayquaza, Kyurem, Hihidaruma / 95 / +ve / 252 / +0
315 / Terakion, Infernape, Kobaruon, Birijion, Kerudio / 108 / Neutral / 252 / +0
307 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 176 / +0
307 / Lugia / 110 / Neutral / 204 / +0
306 / Dialga, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Reshiram, Zekrom, Groudon, Lucario, Meloetta-V, Giratina, Giratina-O / 90 / +ve / 252 / +0
302 / Doryuuzu / 88 / +ve / 252 / +0
301 / Randorosu / 101 / Neutral / 252 / +0
328 / Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Urugamosu, Victini, Shaymin, Manaphy, Celebi / 100 / Neutral / 252 / +0
297 / Groudon / 90 / +ve / 216 / +0
297 / Genosect / 99 / Neutral / 252 / +0
295 / Kingdra, Toxicroak, Heracross / 85 / +ve / 252 / +0
295 / Sazandora / 98 / Neutral / 252 / +0
293 / Ononokusu / 97 / +ve / 252 / +0
290 / Giratina-O, Dialga / 90 / +ve / 192 / +0
289 / Rayquaza, Kyurem, Hihidaruma / 95 / +ve / 252 / +0
284 / Shiftry, Kabutops, Venusaur, Mamoswine, Shandera / 80 / +ve / 252 / +0
279 / Dialga, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Reshiram, Zekrom, Groudon, Lucario, Meloetta-V, Giratina, Giratina-O / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +0
278 / Heatran / 77 / +ve / 252 / +0
276 / Arceus / 120 / Neutral / 0 / +0
275 / Doryuuzu / 88 / Neutral / 252 / +0
273 / Cloyster / 75 / +ve / 252 / +0
269 / Kingdra, Toxicroak, Heracross / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +0
268 / Erufuun / 116 / Neutral / 0 / +0
262 / Ludicolo, Victreebel, Metagross, Kirikizan / 70 / +ve / 252 / +0

Tier 4 (<70 Base Speed):

Hide

259 / Shiftry, Kabutops, Venusaur, Mamoswine, Shandera / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +0
256 / Lugia / 116 / Neutral / 0 / +0
253 / Mew / 100 / Neutral / 68 / +0
251 / Scizor / 65 / +ve / 252 / +1
250 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 176 / +0
250 / Groudon / 90 / Neutral / 136 / +0
249 / Cloyster / 75 / Neutral / 252 / +0
244 / Giratina-O, Dialga / 90 / Neutral / 112 / +0
244 / Jirachi, Celebi, Shaymin, Mew, Manaphy, Victini / 100 / Neutral / 32 / +0
243 / Tyranitar / 61 / +ve / 252 / +0
240 / Magnezone, Abomasnow / 60 / +ve / 252 / +0
239 / Ludicolo, Victreebel, Metagross, Kirikizan / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +0
236 / Jirachi, Celebi, Mew, Shaymin, Manaphy, Victini / 100 / Neutral / 0 / +0
229 / Scizor / 65 / Neutral / 252 / +0
226 / Uxie / 95 / Neutral / 0 / +0
224 / Ho-oh, Dialga, Giratina-O / 90 / Neutral / 32 / +0
222 / Kyogre / 90 / Neutral / 24 / +0
221 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / 252 / +0
219 / Magnezone, Abomasnow / 60 / Neutral / 252 / +0
218 / Tangrowth / 50 / +ve / 252 / +0
216 / Dialga, Kyogre, Ho-oh, Groudon, Giratina, Giratina-O / 90 / Neutral / 0 / +0
206 / Cresselia / 85 / Neutral / 0 / +0
196 / Mamoswine, Venusaur / 80 / Neutral / 0 / +0
196 / Shedinja / 40 / +ve / 252 / +0
194 / Groudon, Kyogre / 90 / -ve / 0 / +0
190 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 0 / +0
184 / Jirachi, Mew, Palkia / 100 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
179 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +0
176 / Ludicolo, Metagross, Skarmory, Kirikizan / 70 / Neutral / 0 / +0
175 / Rayquaza, Uxie / 95 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
166 / Dialga, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Lucario / 90 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
166 / Scizor / 65 / Neutral / 0 / +0
158 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / 0 / +0
157 / Cresselia, Heracross / 85 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
156 / Magnezone, Abomasnow / 60 / Neutral / 0 / +0
146 / Blissey / 55 / Neutral / 0 / +0
143 / Heatran / 77 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
142 / Tyranitar / 61 / -ve / 0 / +0
136 / Chansey, Registeel, Tangrowth / 50 / Neutral / 0 / +0
130 / Metagross / 70 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
126 / Roobushin / 45 / Neutral / 0 / +0
121 / Scizor / 65 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
116 / Forretress / 40 / Neutral / 0 / +0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / +0
111 / Tyranitar / 61 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
106 / Quagsire / 35 / Neutral / 0 / +0
102 / Wobbuffet / 33 / Neutral / 0 / +0
96 / Parasect, Rankurusu, Desukaan / 30 / Neutral / 0 / +0
86 / Gigaiasu / 25 / Neutral / 0 / +0
85 / Forretress / 40 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
63 / Bronzong / 33 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
55 / Rankurusu / 30 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
37 / Nattorei / 20 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0

 

[tangramman]

692 +2 Terakion, Kobaruon (+ve nature, 252 EVs, Base Speed: 108)
630 +2 Terakion, Kobaruon (+ve nature, 252 EVs, Base Speed: 108)

37 +0 Nattorei (-ve nature, 0 EVs, 0 IVs, Base Speed: 85)

Coloured some necessary changes. I only glanced at it however. Thank you very much for this though.

 

[eric the espeon]

It'd really help to talk to a mod before putting up something like thing, any one of us could've told you the correct forum (which I've moved it to with a redirect) and the format to use. But, you've made a good start and I'm sure you'll be able to fix the format to that requested in this sticky without too much trouble. Added it as claimed by you.

 

[shrang]

Okay, fixed some mistakes and fixed the format.

 

[NatGeo]

Zapdos needs to placed here:

492 / Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Urugamosu, Victini, Shaymin / 100 / +ve / 252 / +1

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Max Speed Erufuun is basically irrelevant, as investing in its Speed when it's not going to be running any non-priority moves is questionable at best. At best, list it with a neutral nature, because the only non-priority thing it's doing is U-turn, and it's not investing in its Speed in order to do it.

 

[shrang]

@ NatGeo: I'm not sure if Zapdos is viable in Ubers just yet (Especially +1 Zapdos). I've played with Zapdos in 4th gen and he was mediocre at best. When he gets released with Lightningrod, we'll see what happens. Need more input on this.

@ SDS: Yeah, I guess so. The only thing I was thinking about was outspeeding Borutorusu and Taunting/Encoring it before it got out-prioritied, or maybe tying with other Erufuun. I'll list him with a neutral nature now, but may need more input about this.

 

[Maketsu]

Hi, some of speeds are twice. I found these: 692, 585, 582, 442, 438 and 328.

Also i found these mistakes:
320 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 220 / +0
320 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 176 / +0

196 / Shedinja / 40 / +ve / 252 / +0
196 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +0

Nice work, thanks.

 

[Jamesb8]

just checking you know because i think two +2 boosts actually boosts as much as a +6 Boost right? Did you account for that in the weather boosters?

 

[Destiny Warrior]

He said he's using the old format, where 2 +2s such as Swift Swim + Shell Break make a +4 instead of a +6.

 

[shrang]

Hi, some of speeds are twice. I found these: 692, 585, 582, 442, 438 and 328.

Also i found these mistakes:
320 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 220 / +0
320 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 176 / +0

196 / Shedinja / 40 / +ve / 252 / +0
196 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +0

Nice work, thanks.

Thanks, fixed.

just checking you know because i think two +2 boosts actually boosts as much as a +6 Boost right? Did you account for that in the weather boosters?

Yes, I know that, but I did say in the OP I'm following the old format, but I will change if I get overwhelming support for me to change it.

 

[calze6]

Nice work! Forretress is mispelt, btw.

 

[Mew]

You should add max speed +nature scarfed Kyuremu. It can reach a speed stat of 433 with 252 EVs, +spe nature and a Choice Scarf.

 

[Plusle]

You should add max speed +nature scarfed Kyuremu. It can reach a speed stat of 433 with 252 EVs, +spe nature and a Choice Scarf.

Seconding this, with hail support kyuremu is a absolute boss.

 

[shrang]

You should add max speed +nature scarfed Kyuremu. It can reach a speed stat of 433 with 252 EVs, +spe nature and a Choice Scarf.

You mean neutral nature (because I already have +Spe)?? I guess I could. Will add.

 

[Darkmalice]

I'm wondering what determines the standards to make it into a Tier e.g. why is the minimum Spe for Tier 0 neutral nature 252 Spe Deoxys. It seems strange to have a massively clustered Tier 0 in terms of speed marks (just look at the size of the

Hide

section) and a much less clustered Tier 1 and 2. Even in terms of Spe stats reached, the Tier arrangements seem odd. Tier 0 ranges from 885 to 399, Tier 1 from 394 to 333, whilst in base stat values, Tier 2 only ranges from 90 to 102, whilst Tier 1 ranges from 102 to 149. The assortment of Spe values into Tiers appears very random. Would it be possible to restructure our Tiers so they appear less random, more even in terms of the number of speed marks and what Spe values are included in each Tier. I was thinking of something like this, comments in red. Base Spe values are calculated assuming a +nature, as if you want to guarantee you'll outspeed a Pokemon, you'll usually assume it has the max Spe possible without a Speed boost. Also, most sweepers are using a +nature this Gen (almost everything with 252 Spe EVs that has at least 90 base Speed).

Proposed Tiers for speed marks

Tier 0 = 505+ Spe, >180 Base Spe (with +ve). I would normally associate Tier 0 being a Tier that is normally not reachable or is only reachable under certain conditions. In this case, it is not possible to reach this Tier without a Speed boost e.g. Scarf, Agility. This Tier will not be as small as it looks, in fact, it has more speed marks than in the current Tier 1 and 2.
Tier 1 = 504 - 394, 180 Base Spe to 130 Base Spe. Very fast Pokemon reach this tier without a Spe boost, using Jolteon/Mewtwo and Deoxys-S as benchmarks. Common Scarf users generally aim to at least make this Tier such as Heatran.
Tier 2 = 393 - 328, <130 Base Spe to 100 Base Spe. 100 Spe has commonly been the associated benchmark for many sweepers. The Base Spe value range is less than that of Tier 1, as many more Pokemon have base Speed values within the range of Tier 2.
Tier 3 = 327 - 262, <100 Base Spe to 70 Base Spe.For Pokemon who don't hit the 'main' speed benchmark e.g. 100 base Spe, but aren't quite slow. 70 is the base so that the base speed range's size is the same as that of Tier 2
Tier 4 = <262, <70 Base Spe. Slow Pokemon. An extra Tier will help even out the sizes of the different Tiers. Pokemon on Trick Room teams will usually want to reach this Tier. Making a Tier 5 with the min Base Spe of 40 is a possibility, but many Pokemon in Tier 4 won't be running Spe EVs and don't really care about outrunning certain threats; Spe is usually not much of an issue in this Tier.

Also,

690 / Ninjash / 160 / +ve / 252 / +1

 

[pepiux]

I believe Breloom is missing.

Excellent job, though.

 

[Plusle]

350 / Latias, Latios, Lugia, Gengar, Jumpluff / 110 / +ve / 252 / +0



Add espeon

 

[shrang]

Tier 0 = 505+ Spe, >180 Base Spe (with +ve). I would normally associate Tier 0 being a Tier that is normally not reachable or is only reachable under certain conditions. In this case, it is not possible to reach this Tier without a Speed boost e.g. Scarf, Agility. This Tier will not be as small as it looks, in fact, it has more speed marks than in the current Tier 1 and 2.
Tier 1 = 504 - 394, 180 Base Spe to 130 Base Spe. Very fast Pokemon reach this tier without a Spe boost, using Jolteon/Mewtwo and Deoxys-S as benchmarks. Common Scarf users generally aim to at least make this Tier such as Heatran.
Tier 2 = 393 - 328, <130 Base Spe to 100 Base Spe. 100 Spe has commonly been the associated benchmark for many sweepers. The Base Spe value range is less than that of Tier 1, as many more Pokemon have base Speed values within the range of Tier 2.
Tier 3 = 327 - 262, <100 Base Spe to 70 Base Spe.For Pokemon who don't hit the 'main' speed benchmark e.g. 100 base Spe, but aren't quite slow. 70 is the base so that the base speed range's size is the same as that of Tier 2
Tier 4 = <262, <70 Base Spe. Slow Pokemon. An extra Tier will help even out the sizes of the different Tiers. Pokemon on Trick Room teams will usually want to reach this Tier. Making a Tier 5 with the min Base Spe of 40 is a possibility, but many Pokemon in Tier 4 won't be running Spe EVs and don't really care about outrunning certain threats; Spe is usually not much of an issue in this Tier.

That sounds good, I'll just do that now and it'll be ready for HTML.

EDIT: Done

 

[cosmicexplorer]

I believe max speed Timid Jolteon should be next to Mewtwo, at 394 speed.

EDIT: 500th post yeah!

 

[Arcanite]

Add Arcanine in the same places as Hihidaruma!

 

[Darkmalice]

Deoxys-S belongs in Tier 1, not Tier 0 (>180 base Spe, and a Speed boost is required to reach this tier).

 

[cosmicexplorer]

+1 Randorosu (Scarfed) should probably be in there too, at 496 speed.

 

[Rhys DeAnno]

.
Note 2: About boosts stacking with weather (eg "+4 Omastar" is not actually "+4" but "+2" then add a "+2" boost, which is not "+4"), I went with the old style, so it's still written as something like +4 when it isn't actually +4.

Since the whole point of Speed Tiers is to be a quick reference for figuring stuff out, putting in counterfactual (or even downright confusing) information strikes me as a really bad idea. For example Chesto DD Kingdra could get to +3 in Sand, and by the same token it could get +1 in Rain. Omastar could get +4 by Rain + Shell Smash, or it could Shell Smash twice. I know it might seem like it isn't that big a deal, but it'd be real easy to write +2 in rain as "+2/+2" instead to be more clear than +4.

EDIT: Not that it matters too much, but min speed Natty is 40, not 37, which is important for gyro ball and for TR.

 

[yee]

293 / Ononokusu / 97 / +ve / 252 / +0

Just noticed a typo there, should be neutral nature. Good job, but is it too much to put something like +2/Swift Swim next to Kingdra/Omastar etc.?