Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

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Zazazaki said:
Been thinkin the same, most of the previous tier's OU pokemon will likely remain this Gen too .. well, maybe Haxorus will drop, cause he was on the verge of, if I am not wrong. And Metagross, likely.
Anyway, on to opinions about OU candidates, I think Florges could be OU. While some may say that she's likely goin to be UU or somethin (which I agree to as an idea), it is true that she's quite a special sponge, she can hit back moderately hard, has a plethora of support moves. Haven't played much with or against her, but she seems to be soakin up hits well. Specs Rotom-W's thunderbolt, for example, does like .. 30%. Definitely not the best of the pokemon, but she's pretty durable.
Barnaracle also has potential, although he may not make it because of Cloyster generally outclassin him. But he could still be OU since it could be quite a monster in lower tiers (if you are a bit lucky with Stone Miss, at least), thus maybe he goes OU (or BL).
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The main reason why I believe Florges won't be OU is because it has... no ability, really, in singles. Even Sylveon who has a similar niche (special Fairy wall), bar Hyper Voice Pixilate come Pokebank, has Cute Charm, which is somewhat useful situationally.
 
Florges, Enormous SpD with access to Wish, Aromatherapy, and Light Screen doubling that 154 base SpD. Not to mention it can hit hard with Petal Dance (or Solar Beam on sun teams lol) and Moonblast (can also lower SpA) with even a bit less than average speed (75) it can outspeed a lot of stuff + It's a great SubCM user.

But even with all that, Blissey does walling better 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey might not wall as hard as 252 HP / 252 Def Florges but it walls harder than 4 HP / 252 Def Florges (if you want to invest in SpD), Blissey uses Leftovers, Wish, Aromatherapy and even Light Screen all better. The only things Florges is better than Blissey is Extra 20 Spe, a lot of extra SpA, great immunity to Dragon Typing (Although weak to Scizor but Blissey would die from CB BP Scizor anyways), great SubCM, and access to Grass and Fairy Moves, all those traits make Florges better at hitting and not walling.

If you want a Specially Bulky Special Sweeper Florges is better, but definitely Blissey is better for walling.

However Florges has better SpA, SpD, Def and even better Spe than Sylveon, but Sylveon has way better HP, so I think both have a shot making it to OU
 
Professional2341 said:
Florges, Enormous SpD with access to Wish, Aromatherapy, and Light Screen doubling that 154 base SpD. Not to mention it can hit hard with Petal Dance (or Solar Beam on sun teams lol) and Moonblast (can also lower SpA) with even a bit less than average speed (75) it can outspeed a lot of stuff + It's a great SubCM user.

But even with all that, Blissey does walling better 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey might not wall as hard as 252 HP / 252 Def Florges but it walls harder than 4 HP / 252 Def Florges (if you want to invest in SpD), Blissey uses Leftovers, Wish, Aromatherapy and even Light Screen all better. The only things Florges is better than Blissey is Extra 20 Spe, a lot of extra SpA, great immunity to Dragon Typing (Although weak to Scizor but Blissey would die from CB BP Scizor anyways), great SubCM, and access to Grass and Fairy Moves, all those traits make Florges better at hitting and not walling.

If you want a Specially Bulky Special Sweeper Florges is better, but definitely Blissey is better for walling.

However Florges has better SpA, SpD, Def and even better Spe than Sylveon, but Sylveon has way better HP, so I think both have a shot making it to OU
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Florges has a Special Attack stat 2 higher than Sylveon's base Special Attack. It's not really worth comparing. The special defense doesn't matter that much, since it's still taking negligible damage from almost every neutral or resisted special attack, and no one spams attacks like non-STABed Ice Beams on either one. Sylveon has better physical bulk (95/65>78/68), and since neither one is actually investing any speed the Speed is only situationally better. Sylveon has more HP so it passes bigger Wishes, has Heal Bell (same thing as Aromatherapy), and (the biggest difference) has a bigger movepool. Florges's movepool consists of Moonblast, Wish, Toxic, Protect, Aromatherapy, Energy Ball, Solarbeam, Petal Dance, Hidden Power, Light Screen, Psychic, Calm Mind, Rest, and Sleep Talk. Sylveon has all of those (minus the Grass moves), Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Pixilate Hyper Voice, Skill Swap, Draining Kiss, REFLECT, Yawn, BATON PASS, and other more I'm missing. Florges is probably going to end up one tier below Sylveon, unless something drastic happens.
 
farranpoison said:
The main reason why I believe Florges won't be OU is because it has... no ability, really, in singles. Even Sylveon who has a similar niche (special Fairy wall), bar Hyper Voice Pixilate come Pokebank, has Cute Charm, which is somewhat useful situationally.
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There are good Pokemon without significant abilities. Terrakion, Keldeo, Lucario, and Volcarona are a few that come particularly to mind, looking at Gen 5 OU.
 
Thorhammer said:
There are good Pokemon without significant abilities. Terrakion, Keldeo, Lucario, and Volcarona are a few that come particularly to mind, looking at Gen 5 OU.
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Terrakion/Keldeo have Justified, which gets an Attack Boost if hit by a Dark move, which is what you want to be switching into.

Lucario has Inner Focus (Which prevents Fake Out) or Steadfast (No one wants to Fake Out you anymore).

Volcarona has Flame Body which can severely cripple a Physical attacker.

Florges has Flower Veil, which prevents status conditions on... Grass types. Which Florges is not. Or it gets Symbiosis, which passes an item to a partner. Which is useless in Singles.

Florges in Doubles seems quite good with its abilities. In Singles though, it has no ability at all.
 
Minor tangent that I personally find intriguing;

r/b
Gengar
Starmie

g/s
Blissey
Forretress
Skarmory
Tyranitar

r/s
Jirachi
Metagross
Salamence

This list consists of all the Pokemon whom since their introduction, haven't once dropped out of OU. Salamence stands out for having gone Uber at one point, but otherwise these guys have all retained their OU status throughout the generations. We've seen long-standing titans fall before, both Zapdos and Snorlax lost four generations of OU status during B/W, and Suicune also fell last generation as well. Whilst it may be too early to say, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Metagross is going to be losing its position on the list in the sixth gen, but what interests me more is the possibility of an even older Pokemon falling; Forretress is on a steady path out of OU in my opinion, it was already weaker in Black & White than in any generation prior, and the addition of the Defog buff has done it no favours whatsoever, not to mention it just gets more and more competition in the one niche it really has. Also whilst I certainly don't see the former ruler of the post-Garchomp DPP metagame dropping out of OU yet, Salamence is definitely the weakest its ever been with the new Fairies in play. I don't think anybody else on the list is going to see a change however, in fact Gengar and Tyranitar have arguably gotten even better.
 
Alice in Pyroland said:
Minor tangent that I personally find intriguing;

r/b
Gengar
Starmie

g/s
Blissey
Forretress
Skarmory
Tyranitar

r/s
Jirachi
Metagross
Salamence

This list consists of all the Pokemon whom since their introduction, haven't once dropped out of OU. Salamence stands out for having gone Uber at one point, but otherwise these guys have all retained their OU status throughout the generations. We've seen long-standing titans fall before, both Zapdos and Snorlax lost four generations of OU status during B/W, and Suicune also fell last generation as well. Whilst it may be too early to say, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Metagross is going to be losing its position on the list in the sixth gen, but what interests me more is the possibility of an even older Pokemon falling; Forretress is on a steady path out of OU in my opinion, it was already weaker in Black & White than in any generation prior, and the addition of the Defog buff has done it no favours whatsoever, not to mention it just gets more and more competition in the one niche it really has. Also whilst I certainly don't see the former ruler of the post-Garchomp DPP metagame dropping out of OU yet, Salamence is definitely the weakest its ever been with the new Fairies in play. I don't think anybody else on the list is going to see a change however, in fact Gengar and Tyranitar have arguably gotten even better.
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Jirachi, actually, might be falling out of favor much like Metagross will be because of the Steel nerf. Now I'm no expert on this (never used Jirachi) but I can see the metagame becoming a lot harder for it now, with Talonflame, Aegislash, and Gengar all running around.
 
Leica said:
I could possibly see Crobat going OU if Defog becomes a thing.
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Defog is a huge thing in this gen, there is no way it's not gonna be a thing, it and Knock Off are all over this gen. Almost all pokemons that can abuse one of those two will either be from low it's previous tier to top it's own tier or even move a tier up.

Btw apparently Latias gets Defog via HM in gen IV so that might be good on stuff like Showdown

Also candidates that I'd think would be OU this gen:

Staraptor: Always been awesome, last gen was BL so I think it might make it to OU this gen with Defog and because Intimidate is more viable IMO (A lot of new physical threats notably Aegislash and Talonflame)

I don't know if somebody mention this before but:

Azumarill: If Belly Drum + Aqua Jet + Play Rough isn't good enough, you could Choice Band or Life Orb with Waterfall + Aqua jet + Play Rough, huge threat with the new typing and neutral to Steel

Togekiss: Fairy/Flying, So good, just slays Dragons with great bulk and awesome SpA + Serene Grace Air Slash and Moonblast

Galavantuala: Was already top RU, and given Sitcky Web, he'd easily be UU+

Yanmega: Was already top UU, and imagine Defog + Speed Boost

Crobat: Defog and kills fairy types, not to mention he was already top UU, + Super fast and could be relied on with decent Atk and Nasty Plot SpA
 
Latias will still be great, but I feel as if people will shift towards more Support roles with it. I honestly believe Latias will overtake her brother this gen. She has the bulk to take hits, and the moveset (namely defog and wish) other pokemon would die for.
 
Ropeburn said:
Latias will still be great, but I feel as if people will shift towards more Support roles with it. I honestly believe Latias will overtake her brother this gen. She has the bulk to take hits, and the moveset (namely defog and wish) other pokemon would die for.
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Not to mention SubCM + Recover has no coverage at all. Plus with the Infiltrator and Hyper Voice it's really outdated and IMO will see no use this gen.
 
Latias will just have to forgo SubCM for more offensive Calm Mind sets that utilize 2-move coverage. Dragon Pulse + Thunderbolt nets good neutral coverage on Steels and the 2 prominent Fairies in Azumarill and Togekiss. Florges and Sylveon are indeed problems, but at least they are much easier to take advantage of than Azu and Kiss.
 
farranpoison said:
Jirachi, actually, might be falling out of favor much like Metagross will be because of the Steel nerf. Now I'm no expert on this (never used Jirachi) but I can see the metagame becoming a lot harder for it now, with Talonflame, Aegislash, and Gengar all running around.
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While I perfectly agree about Metagross, yeah, that thing will probably go UU, it sucks a bit but it seems unavoidable with all these nerfs, I doubt that Jirachi will drop in usage that much. Yeah, it will drop a bit, I'd say, but it's paraflinch-you-to-death-as-you-can't-do-a-thing-about-it combination of T-wave (which got nerfed a bit)/Body Slam/Thunder with Iron Head, or just classic Scarfed Iron flinchin-death head spam, should be enough to allow it to continue bein a favored/hated pick.
And readin the comments above, I see that Sylveon may actually be a better choice after all, pretty good Sp.Def anyway, better movepool, and an ability that actually offers somethin, it may end up OU as a wall. Or, who knows, maybe both may end up in UU. Togekiss will likely be OU this Gen, tho.
 
farranpoison said:
Jirachi, actually, might be falling out of favor much like Metagross will be because of the Steel nerf. Now I'm no expert on this (never used Jirachi) but I can see the metagame becoming a lot harder for it now, with Talonflame, Aegislash, and Gengar all running around.
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Plus Jirachi now checks many of fairy types.

R.I.P. My once favourite Megacross.

Add in another point, with the much weaken SR due to defog, stone miss and the buffed power gem(distribution issue sucks though) may see some use to check defoger. Plus with steels being more managabole, the slot for Fire moves is less neccesary, not to mention the nerf to fire burst and flamethrower.
 
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Todd said:
The bulk difference doesn't matter, because the typing on Delphox is so terrible and the bulk so below average-average that if you're choosing to use Delphox for defensive reasons, you're choosing it for even wronger reasons than usual. You take neutral U-turns, so good luck switching in on a smart player with scizor (who most fire types wouldn't blink at). No immunities, which is a big thing for a pokemon with those defenses and which needs a pretty ready set of switch in chances. You choose Heatran and Volcarona if you want a fire type that can take hits, not Delphox. Volcarona, by the way, is far better than Delphox at CM sweeping in OU, because his CM boosts his speed as well.Plus he's more powerful and has recovery. And if you compare delphox to other psychic CM users, the latis are humilioated that you're even comparing Delphox to them. When you talk about Delphox being that high and powerful, you don't compare his CM to Chandelure, you compare it to Volcarona and the latis. Once you start getting lower, timid base 80 on Chandelure outspeeds all the important things that need outspeeding, plus his set of immunities in a metagame currently rife with blazikens and lucarios is far more useful for setting up a CM. Plus no garchomp is going to be switching in on a +1 delphox, man. The other, many pokemon that completely wall delphox will. Garchomp will switch in maybe after something is dead, and then good luck.



No. You should really just look these things up.

You keep talking up that 104 speed like it's the end all be all, but it's really just minutely above average. delphox is probably one of the most predictable pokemon around. And it's hard countered by many of the top pokemon in OU. A slightly above average speed, small movepool, terrible typing, and mediocre bulk do not make a pokemon good, especially a pokemon outclassed by just about every other fire type. If above average speed and good offenses were the requirements, Sceptile would be OU. He has better + stronger coverage, unpredictability (dat unburden physical set, man), better defensive typing, and higher speed, plus he's not trapped and walled as easily as delphox. But he's down in RU.




There's a reason, and that's V-create. Because V-create is so damn good. But that doesn't mean that Victini can't run specs or special sets. Like I said, if people really needed a special choice pokemon that was pursuit weak, had middling speed, and fire stab, then people would probably still use victini, because he has better coverage moves + higher stab + U-turn. The offensive stat difference doesn't make a difference, because Victini does more damage due to the higher BP of his STABs and coverage. Plus he can run one slot V-create, so the blobs don't wall him. Plus he can u-turn out pf predicted Ttars. Delphox has none of that (and he's far bulkier than Delphox, if you're really that set on using Delphox because it's "bulky").

And good luck running that delphox on your sun team come december. Once heatran and the latis are running around (all three of whom drop sun teams like a bad habit), that delphox is going to be deadweight. Sun teams need every teamslot they can get, and Delphox does nothing any other pokemon doesnt. Infernape won't be much better, but at least he hits Heatran.
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I think I still appreciate quick WoW and Mystical fire by the least. And I don't think her move pools sucks that hard with the present of glass knot. And scarf swicheroo is always nice to have. Also, SR effects may be overstated with the approach of defog. But yes, I think she would have a tough time in OU. Damn why she doesn't get nasty plot? Her outfit definitely seems so. Even better if mystical fire switch you out instead of dropping SpA. It does fit thematically consider how we already have teleport.
 
Delphox might find a gimmicky niche with Magician and Power Herb + Solar Beam. With it, you can steal any item on demand from something that relies on its item, crippling it for the rest of the match and if it's good, helping Delphox as well.

Otherwise though, I don't think it will be OU. UU at best, because it does have pretty good stats and movepool.
 
I think Scolipede has niches to be a sweeper (although outclassed by Sharpedo and Blaziken (ATM)), but he can be a potent Baton Passer.
 
farranpoison said:
Delphox might find a gimmicky niche with Magician and Power Herb + Solar Beam. With it, you can steal any item on demand from something that relies on its item, crippling it for the rest of the match and if it's good, helping Delphox as well.

Otherwise though, I don't think it will be OU. UU at best, because it does have pretty good stats and movepool.
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If you want to make an opponent lose their item, Knock Off is a far simpler option.
 
farranpoison said:
Delphox might find a gimmicky niche with Magician and Power Herb + Solar Beam. With it, you can steal any item on demand from something that relies on its item, crippling it for the rest of the match and if it's good, helping Delphox as well.

Otherwise though, I don't think it will be OU. UU at best, because it does have pretty good stats and movepool.
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Magician doesn't activate if you already have an item, regardless of whether it is consumed that turn. So no Power Herb/Fire Gem Delphox. Although Magician is a good ability.
 
The OU pokes I will say are:

Talonflame (Priority BB + Roost is just too damn good to hold up. Requires some support but it's revenge killing/cleaning ability is unparalleled.)

Greninja (Yeah Protean has become the new no weak but it still outspeeds most of the meta with decent offensive presence and Spikes + U-Turn making it like a Starmie that lays hazards instead of controlling them.)

Gourgeist (Pretty good bulk and above average attack for a wall. Also has a crapton of support/stalling tools to abuse. Spinblockers aren't the be all and end all anymore but Grass/Ghost is still great at stopping many physical attackers.)

Zygarde (Real cool bulk and is good slow booster with Coil. Has niches over Chomp with bulk and Espeed.)

Azumarill (Already a decent-ish pokemon got a lot better with an extra (Really good) STAB and more resistances. Also Bellyjet is pretty sweet if you can pull it off)

Kangaskhan (This thing wrecks shit with it's mega. By far my favourite one of the bunch even with Gengar having the almighty Shadow Tag. Not only can it run a PUP Boosting set it can also run a classic Gen 5 Fake Out + Sucker Punch set that utterly destroys pure offense)

Aegislash is pretty cool being a mixed pivot but I'm not too experienced with facing that set and Haven't seen or used Togekiss yet.
 
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