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Other 6th Gen Pokemon UU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Ashfield
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I totally didn't know Escavalier got new buffs this gen, I'm so going to try and use him now.
This may have been said somewhere already, but I believe one of my favorite new mons, Tyrantrum, will fall into UU. He's really strong, and has nice Defense, but is slow, reliant on Scarf or DD, and Rock/Dragon typing gives it too many weaknesses. That said, I can see him doing okay in OU in the right teams (using him now in one lol) but in general, he's probably UU.
Edit: Wait fffs you can't get Overcoat Escavalier ingame yet, crap
This may have been said somewhere already, but I believe one of my favorite new mons, Tyrantrum, will fall into UU. He's really strong, and has nice Defense, but is slow, reliant on Scarf or DD, and Rock/Dragon typing gives it too many weaknesses. That said, I can see him doing okay in OU in the right teams (using him now in one lol) but in general, he's probably UU.
Edit: Wait fffs you can't get Overcoat Escavalier ingame yet, crap
Just want to say that just because a pokemon loses popularity does not mean it will drop to UU. No one used staraptor gen 5 and it remained BL/OU. Even if no one uses Salamence, Haxorus, Politoed, Conkledure, Hippowdon, or Reuniclus (very improbable) I doubt they will drop to UU. All of these pokemon remain much to powerful for UU even if they are outclassed or less viable than before in OU. Salamence and Haxorus would destroy UU as they are much more powerful than any sweeper that exists there now and unlike herracross, can run dragon dance sets instead of relying on scarf. Even politoed would centralize UU with the only other automatic weather inducer being Hippopotas. Additionally rain is still pretty good with only 8 turns.
I think the former OU pokemon that will drop to UU are pokemon that had specific niches no longer needed, or were extremely reliant on weather. An example of a pokemon that has lost a lot of its niche use is donophan. With defog running around, there is little reason to use a subpar pokemon for last resort rapid spinning. Additionally donophan was really only used on sun teams last gen that couldn't use starmie.
Pokemon like toxicroak, vaporeon, or tenticruel may fall to UU simply because there lives are a lot harder without permanent rain (boosted healing in toxicroak and tenticruels case and freedom from status for vaporeon. Now that keldeo can't abuse rain like it could last gen, gastredon may also fall to UU. Similarly, dugtrio was only really used to eliminate other weather starters such as tyranitar for sun teams before, and now that perma sun is gone, dugtrio may fall. I don't see why magnezone would fall as nothing significant has changed for it or affected its role this gen.
So in summery I would guess that of last gens OU pokemon, Toxicroak, Vaporeon, Tenticruel, Donophan, Gastredon, and dugtrio may fall to UU. However I think it is unlikely I will be right on even 2/3 of these, as the metagame still has plenty of time to develop.
I think the former OU pokemon that will drop to UU are pokemon that had specific niches no longer needed, or were extremely reliant on weather. An example of a pokemon that has lost a lot of its niche use is donophan. With defog running around, there is little reason to use a subpar pokemon for last resort rapid spinning. Additionally donophan was really only used on sun teams last gen that couldn't use starmie.
Pokemon like toxicroak, vaporeon, or tenticruel may fall to UU simply because there lives are a lot harder without permanent rain (boosted healing in toxicroak and tenticruels case and freedom from status for vaporeon. Now that keldeo can't abuse rain like it could last gen, gastredon may also fall to UU. Similarly, dugtrio was only really used to eliminate other weather starters such as tyranitar for sun teams before, and now that perma sun is gone, dugtrio may fall. I don't see why magnezone would fall as nothing significant has changed for it or affected its role this gen.
So in summery I would guess that of last gens OU pokemon, Toxicroak, Vaporeon, Tenticruel, Donophan, Gastredon, and dugtrio may fall to UU. However I think it is unlikely I will be right on even 2/3 of these, as the metagame still has plenty of time to develop.
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Mega-Heracross has 75 Spe, not 55. Additionally, Darmanitan already outsped, and beat it before.
How can you possibly say something is going to be broken in a tier that DOES NOT EXIST. I'm seriously getting sick of people constantly claiming that. Keep in mind that these former ous are the ones that will be making the new uu in first place. Face it, we are looking for a far more powerful uu metagame than ever before. Salamence, haxorus, kyurem, weather setters, reuniclus, metagross, hydreigon. As the power creep comes, what was deemed strong is now borderline mediocre. Insisting otherwise is the reason crap things keep their ou status even though they dont have any business being there. Let the tiers follow their natural course and instead of keeping mence and co rotting as low ou material they can drop and form a complete new tier on their own.
The only reason salamence and haxorus are not used is because they are outclassed by other powerful dragons. There is little reason to use them because of dragonite and garchomp; however they are still very good pokemon in there own right. If for some reason Dragonite or Garchomp disappeared, these dragons would immediately take their place and do fine in the OU meta. These are the characteristics of BL pokes, not pokes that are dropped a tier.
Gen 6 did not introduce that many more pokes that will suddenly make OU a much more powerful place. If anything Gen 5 already jacked up the power level in both OU and UU significantly. I would argue that as a whole, with the introduction of many more tanks, Gen 6 it did the opposite. The pokes that are ridiculously powerful at the moment such as mega Gengar, mega Kanga, and Mega Lucario, are banned, in the process of being banned, or under consideration for ban/suspect. Because of this, I highly doubt that UU will be that much more of a hostile environment compared to that of last generation. There is no indication that UU will grow nearly powerful enough to let pokes such as Salamence, Kyurem, Hydrogen, or Haxorus in (I'm picking on these dragon types just because thats whats being argued will be dropped).
Gen 6 did not introduce that many more pokes that will suddenly make OU a much more powerful place. If anything Gen 5 already jacked up the power level in both OU and UU significantly. I would argue that as a whole, with the introduction of many more tanks, Gen 6 it did the opposite. The pokes that are ridiculously powerful at the moment such as mega Gengar, mega Kanga, and Mega Lucario, are banned, in the process of being banned, or under consideration for ban/suspect. Because of this, I highly doubt that UU will be that much more of a hostile environment compared to that of last generation. There is no indication that UU will grow nearly powerful enough to let pokes such as Salamence, Kyurem, Hydrogen, or Haxorus in (I'm picking on these dragon types just because thats whats being argued will be dropped).
Things become BL because they are found to be broken in uu, thats it. Since there is no uu there is no such thing as ''this pokemon is too much''. You cannot possibly say what will or will not be broken based on imaginary theorymon lol. What you can say however is what will most likely drop judging by the usage stats, which is the point of this thread in first place.
Why cant I say what will and will not be UU? This is a UU Candidate Speculation Thread after all.
Usage stats can't tell you whether an OU pokemon is too powerful for UU or not, they just suggest how viable they are in OU. And there are some pokes such as deoxys-d that had very low usage (enough to be even UU at one point) that were deemed Uber after suspect.
Usage stats can't tell you whether an OU pokemon is too powerful for UU or not, they just suggest how viable they are in OU. And there are some pokes such as deoxys-d that had very low usage (enough to be even UU at one point) that were deemed Uber after suspect.
Youre not saying what will probably end up in uu (which is the entire point of this thread as i just said), youre using a baseless argument to support the ridiculous idea that something will be broken when the tier does not exist in first place. Things are uu because theyre not used enough to be ou, usage stats are the ONLY source to determine a pokemon tiering so i have no idea what you are talking about. Basically we have no tier atm, we can just speculate what will probaby drop there (keep in mind that there are far lower tiers where something might end up in), however theres absolutely ZERO arguments to say what will or will not be broken there when that requires actually playing it.
You know, seeing powerful stuff like fucking Salamence makes me wonder how much we will put into BL. Hell, if we put enough in we might find that BL turns into it's own tier!
If usages stats were the only thing that determined UU, this thread wouldn't exist. Yes, that is how they are formed, but chances are the tier will look similar to last gen, and Salamence and Haxorus will be quickly moved up. I'm just saying that I find it extremely unlikely that Salamence and Haxorus will be UU this gen. I don't see how my argument is baseless as I'm using existing trends from last gen, considering what has just been introduced and making assumptions off of that, while also considering Usage stats. As the metagame develops many of these pokemon may see more usage. In contrast, I don't see how you are doing any logical thinking, besides pointing at the usage stats and saying look.
As this is a speculation thread I feel entitled to my opinion and I'm guessing you do too. So I feel like we can leave it at this as we obviously dont agree.
Maybe there will be a new tier, who knows. That would be pretty cool, and definitely could be a reality if gamefreak keeps introducing new pokemon at this rate.
As this is a speculation thread I feel entitled to my opinion and I'm guessing you do too. So I feel like we can leave it at this as we obviously dont agree.
Maybe there will be a new tier, who knows. That would be pretty cool, and definitely could be a reality if gamefreak keeps introducing new pokemon at this rate.
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No, your argument was, word-to-word: ''. All of these pokemon remain much to powerful for UU even if they are outclassed or less viable than before in OU.'' Thats entirely baseless because there is no uu tier for you or anyone else to say what is going to be overpowered. This thread is to speculate what will probably end up there which is not what you did. You cant reason that something will be overpowered based on existing trends, thats ridiculous. No one knows how the uu meta will be like. Could be it different, could it be similar, who knows, and thats the only thing we can be speculating about.
This thread is not to discuss if you think the meta will be similar and about Pokemon that wolud be excluded as a consequence.
What do you think about Mega Pokemon potentially making it to UU? I think the fact that you can only play one per team and that some have conflicting typing/niches (I thinking Houndoom needing Sun to properly be abused while the most used sun setter will likely be another mega) will very likely bring at least a few megas into the tier. It's difficult to think that OU will be needing both Jolteon and Mega Manectric when other megas and Thundurus exist.
What do you think about Mega Pokemon potentially making it to UU? I think the fact that you can only play one per team and that some have conflicting typing/niches (I thinking Houndoom needing Sun to properly be abused while the most used sun setter will likely be another mega) will very likely bring at least a few megas into the tier. It's difficult to think that OU will be needing both Jolteon and Mega Manectric when other megas and Thundurus exist.
Mega-Aggron might find a home here for stall users. Yes, its stats, typing, and ability are amazing, but it has no recovery outside of rest and wish clerics. That can be a bit problematic in OU especially with Megasaur and his three moves to heal, but it might take UU well.
We can speculate what pokemon will the UU metagame this gen consists as we look into current's OU statistics. All pokemon belonging to Uber/OU are the banlist for the upcoming UU game, so by looking at it, we can know what will not be UU. An example will be Dragonite and Garchomp surely not being UU, but Salamence and Haxorus, as of now, are being UU. Since there isn't yet a UU game, and since the last gen's UU metagame is not something reliant to base the next UU metagme on, these are examples of Pokemon, that if are kept from the OU stats when the UU metagame will be finally formed, WILL be UU. They might be the top threats and even get suspected immideatly or after some period of time. That might get those two dragons banned into BL, another UU banlist that forms only AFTER the UU metagame forms. So before there is a BL, we can speculate what will be UU by saying what will not be OU now and/or in the next following month. (Salamence can achive higher usage once the bank comes out maybe) We can speculate how the UU metagame will look like and what might become BL. We can speculate what threats that right now can see a glimse of UU, will eventually not drop and keep their OU status. The list I have pointed out is a list of just those kind of Pokemon that might be solid UU, some might become BL AFTER the UU metagame will construct and will deem them broken and some might stay OU as they were last gen.
Wouldn't the Pokebank OU Beta stats give us a better approximation of the usage stats than the pre-bank OU? Or is that what we were already doing?
I think mega mawile will drop down to UU. While it does have amazing attack, it is slow, and has no form of even passive healing (outside of pain split which is not exactly reliable). The only use I've seen for it so far in OU is limited use on trick room teams, but even then its not as terrifying compared to monsters such as conkledurr or reuniclus.
I also think that with the expansion of strong pokemon, OU may become more like RU or NU in that there are so many different pokes, they can't all be used commonly. If this was true maybe they will have to lower the cut off for UU. They will eventually have to do this if many more pokemon are released next gen, or they could just come up with a new tier like RU was. This is purely theorymon though.
And I just realized that early on it said not to discuss pokemon like salemence. Sorry for that tangent, its my fault too.
I think mega mawile will drop down to UU. While it does have amazing attack, it is slow, and has no form of even passive healing (outside of pain split which is not exactly reliable). The only use I've seen for it so far in OU is limited use on trick room teams, but even then its not as terrifying compared to monsters such as conkledurr or reuniclus.
I also think that with the expansion of strong pokemon, OU may become more like RU or NU in that there are so many different pokes, they can't all be used commonly. If this was true maybe they will have to lower the cut off for UU. They will eventually have to do this if many more pokemon are released next gen, or they could just come up with a new tier like RU was. This is purely theorymon though.
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I think that's mostly because everyone's jerking off over kanga and lucario right now. Once they're banned (or at least kanga is) I imagine mawile's popularity will go back up. She was already pretty popular before everyone realised how broken kanga was and started including her on every single team.
These are the megas that I think will end up in UU (or even RU?). Plenty of these are perfectly fine and powerful in OU, but will have low enough usage to drop down
Aerodactyl - This thing has awesome speed and attack in UU. I'd like to say this'll be a huge threat in UU, but then there's a list of probably 50 OU drop-outs that I'd say would be a huge threat
Ampharos - Great bulky pivot. It'll be great but nowhere near too powerful
Heracross - As dangerous as it is, I think scarf Heracross will once again be the most popular version of Heracross. It's kinda like how Scizor and Garchomp are still more popular than their mega forms, but the mega form gives it a new style to play with.
Houndoom - It was alright last gen, and it now has blazing speed to play with. It loses its awesome Flash Fire when it mega evolves, but maybe it only needs to use the boost once (before it evolves, it switches into say FB from Chandelure) and use it to help sweep
Gardevoir - It's powerful but it'll have a tough time switching in. OU is so physical right now that maybe the dangerous special threats will drop down to UU and Gardy will have an easier time switching in. It'll be weird to EV though. Do you go max speed+sp Attack to maximize offensive potential, or do you invest in some HP to help give it more switch-in opportunities? Its fairy typing is not enough to stop the expected dragon onslaught but atleast the opponent will have to think twice before just Outrage/Draco spamming.
Aggron - I don't know how this will hold up against the Dragons. Haxorus EQ will still hit it hard, but Filter may help it drive Haxorus out of battle. Perhaps M Aggron + a fairy will be a popular combo to help against dragons.
Medicham - I really have nothing to say about this. Is 100 speed gonna be as critical in UU as it was in last gen OU?
Manectric - Nor this. It looks really good but not as scary as most of the above
Banette - I always have no clue what this thing's gonna do to me whenever I face it. So... I have no clue where this'll end up. Prankster mons are always weird and you never know how they can screw you over.
Absol - I see this like a UU version of Lucario. It's hard to find switch-in opportunities, it's hard to set-up, but if it does setup, it's game over. It'll be interesting seeing it use Magic Bounce to find switch-in opportunities (which means it must have evolved some time earlier in the match)
Abomasnow - Theoretically it should be a nice tank, but I've never seen it do anything in OU so I don't really know what it's capable of
Aerodactyl - This thing has awesome speed and attack in UU. I'd like to say this'll be a huge threat in UU, but then there's a list of probably 50 OU drop-outs that I'd say would be a huge threat
Ampharos - Great bulky pivot. It'll be great but nowhere near too powerful
Heracross - As dangerous as it is, I think scarf Heracross will once again be the most popular version of Heracross. It's kinda like how Scizor and Garchomp are still more popular than their mega forms, but the mega form gives it a new style to play with.
Houndoom - It was alright last gen, and it now has blazing speed to play with. It loses its awesome Flash Fire when it mega evolves, but maybe it only needs to use the boost once (before it evolves, it switches into say FB from Chandelure) and use it to help sweep
Gardevoir - It's powerful but it'll have a tough time switching in. OU is so physical right now that maybe the dangerous special threats will drop down to UU and Gardy will have an easier time switching in. It'll be weird to EV though. Do you go max speed+sp Attack to maximize offensive potential, or do you invest in some HP to help give it more switch-in opportunities? Its fairy typing is not enough to stop the expected dragon onslaught but atleast the opponent will have to think twice before just Outrage/Draco spamming.
Aggron - I don't know how this will hold up against the Dragons. Haxorus EQ will still hit it hard, but Filter may help it drive Haxorus out of battle. Perhaps M Aggron + a fairy will be a popular combo to help against dragons.
Medicham - I really have nothing to say about this. Is 100 speed gonna be as critical in UU as it was in last gen OU?
Manectric - Nor this. It looks really good but not as scary as most of the above
Banette - I always have no clue what this thing's gonna do to me whenever I face it. So... I have no clue where this'll end up. Prankster mons are always weird and you never know how they can screw you over.
Absol - I see this like a UU version of Lucario. It's hard to find switch-in opportunities, it's hard to set-up, but if it does setup, it's game over. It'll be interesting seeing it use Magic Bounce to find switch-in opportunities (which means it must have evolved some time earlier in the match)
Abomasnow - Theoretically it should be a nice tank, but I've never seen it do anything in OU so I don't really know what it's capable of
With the introduction of fairy types it feels like Haxorus will not have any place in the OU metagame anymore. As the inarguably least used OU dragon of last gen and the introduction of new dragon types like Goodra to take it's place i kinda doubt that this thing will get nearly enough usage to stay overused.
It'll be BL for sure. If it's allowed in UU it'll be ale to completely wreck 95% of the tier.
We don't know how much power will be in the tier this gen, so you can't say things like this. The tier might be entirely different and be able to handle Haxorus. It might be able to handle DD Multiscale Dragonite for all we know
When terrakion is borderline UU in last month usage in pokebank beta (last OU mon) you can wonder how UU will shape in the future.
It's impossible to tell how a UU metagame will look before the hype of all the new pokemon (and the metagame itself) settles down, so predicting what will and will not be BL is redundant.
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