A Pokemon Draft.

[rbygsc kid 251]

I'm not sure if this topic has ever been brought up before so if it has, I apologize.

anyways, my question to the users of smogon is the opinions of a pokemon draft. This is similar to fantasy football, for those of you have played FF before.

The idea behind the draft works like this.

1) eight players.
2) the eight players draw a number out of a hat (1,2,3,etc. up to 8)

3) The person who draws 1 obviously goes first and the person who draws 8 will pick last in the first round; however that person picks first in the second round. So the picks are kind of as follows:

Player A picks 1st, 16th, 17th, 32nd. etc.
Player B picks 2nd, 15th, 18th, 31st, etc.
Player C picks 3rd, 14th, 19th, 30th, etc.
Player D picks 4th, 13th, 20th, 29th, etc.
Player E picks 5th, 12th, 21st, 28th, etc.
Player F picks 6th, 11th, 22nd, 27th, etc.
Player G picks 7th, 10th, 23rd, 26th, etc.
Player H picks 8th, 9th, 24th, 25th, etc.

etc. etc.

Now the rules behind the drafting are simple. Once a pokemon is gone, then you can not select it, plain and simple. you simply draft 8-12 pokemon and then you form a six man team around it.

pros to my idea:

1) only 1 blissey in the tourney. sure, this person will seem to have an unfair advantage, but in my mind blissey would be picked 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, so that person would have to wait for 14th, 15th, or 16th to come around, time in which people could grab a blissey counter.

2) fair. As long as you have 8 players who know what they are doing teams should be fair.

cons to my idea:

1) no element of surprise. After all, you will know who has the heracross, so if you choose gligar, you can just have him chill until you fight the heracross.

2) Extremely hard to have a team of all standards. you will definitly have to draft BL pokemon, and possibly even UU. but after 8 players pick 6 times, 48 pokemon will be gone. after that it may be slim pickings.

I mean this is just an idea to have a fun tourney, that can still at the same time be competitive.

please let me know what you think.

 

[porygon3]

I love FF, I'm going to be playing for my 2nd/5th year (depending on how you look at it).

Anyway, I think this is an interesting idea. As you said, whoever gets Blissey will have an advantage, and Blissey will be like the LT of pokemon, but you have to wait a long time for your next draft pick (and I know how this feels, since I had a 1st overall pick last year, and it was a pain waiting from pick 1 until pick 20 to get my 2nd player). After Blissey, everything that is very good and versatile will be picked very early (Salamence for example, since it can be CB, Specs, or DD depending on your opponent's main weakness). Unusual things like Hippowdon and Empoleon would probably be picked (not too soon, but early in the draft) because certian players would be overly powerful (for example, Empoleon could get picked early to counter the person that picked Salamence and something like Alakazam with their first picks).

Any "combos" such as Gyarados/Electivire, SkarmBliss, etc. are almost impossible, though it could be possible to get Skarmory and Chansey (I can't see Skarmory going before the end of the 1st round, so whoever gets it would probably only have to wait a few picks).

I'm assuming this would be for Competitor?

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

well, maybe it could be used for competitor. I love the blissey, LT analogy

 

[tdub13]

This sounds like a great idea, because it would force people to use UU/BL pokes instead of a bunch of standards.

 

[Hipmonlee]

There have been tournaments run like this before.. Try searching the tournaments forum for draft or something..

The problem with them is that the draft usually takes forever, it is too hard to get players coordinated enough..

Have a nice day.

 

[squeakyreaper]

Hm... This would change alot of things, so I feel this is important. Would the people be able to choose the moveset after everyone has picked, or do they make the moveset right there and then?

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

yes, that is the idea behind it, and yes i do agree with porygon3 that skarmbliss is impossible to grab, but i think you possibly get gyarados/electivire if you pick 6th and 11th. Then again, there might not be 5 poke's better than gyarados. lol

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

Hm... This would change alot of things, so I feel this is important. Would the people be able to choose the moveset after everyone has picked, or do they make the moveset right there and then?

You know, i really haven't thought this through too deeply. You're absolutely right though. If you have heracross, you can just keep changing movesets and items like crazy.

If I were to have one of these tourneys, I would give everyone two weeks after the draft to raise their team and that is it. So if a person chooses to go with Cscarf heracross in one match and go with something else in another match then that is fine, but that person only have 2 weeks, so if that person wants to raise two of each of your guys effectively, good luck.

 

[X-Codes]

There have been tournaments run like this before.. Try searching the tournaments forum for draft or something..

The problem with them is that the draft usually takes forever, it is too hard to get players coordinated enough..

Have a nice day.

A possible treatment for this would be to only draft 5-6 'mons per player. You can then have them use all 6 'mons for a team or use only 3 mons for a team, or however else you want to work it.

 

[Coiled Flame]

One idea would be to hold the draft tourney over two days.
Day 1 would be drafting, and day 2 would be the tourney itself.
Id be willing to help out if one of these starts once competitor is out.

 

[Gouki]

I think it would be interesting, and I'm definitely up for it, but you'll have to clarify the rules.

EDIT: And yes I realize that you only mean this as an idea and not as a final product.

 

[Kimi3013]

You could run it more as a league than a knockout tournament. Everyone pick nine Pokemon which you can train anyway you like (but not re-train later), and then pick the Pokemon before each battle. Gives more fog-of-war to the comp. You could save your Blissey counter for when it's needed. I'd be game for something like that in the future, once I get more experience.

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

yes, i am loving everyone's ideas. I like coiled flames idea, the only real problem is that you are going to need to raise a CRAP load of pokes, because many of the ones you raised will be drafted. I honestly like the idea of drafting seven or eight and using six. (im sorry x-codes, but I can't stand 3v.3)

I didn't even know I could throw a tourney, I was just throwing out an idea. Once competitor comes out, well see how it goes.

 

[Gouki]

It would have to be a small tournament, because people who get unlucky on the draw would be at a huge disadvantage otherwise. I think you're applying the ideals of fantasy football too much. Remember, there are many more football players who can be valuable to your team then there are Pokemon. A decent player who is in a great system can be very effective, while Pokemon have to go up against each other one-on-one.

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

It would have to be a small tournament, because people who get unlucky on the draw would be at a huge disadvantage otherwise. I think you're applying the ideals of fantasy football too much. Remember, there are many more football players who can be valuable to your team then there are Pokemon. A decent player who is in a great system can be very effective, while Pokemon have to go up against each other one-on-one.

very true. What do you suggest? six players? maybe 4. I mean I play in fantasy football leagues that have 12 players and once it reaches round 6, you need to start making really good decisions.

But i understand what you are saying. If you were stuck with 8th, sure you would get 2 of the best 9, but at the same time you will most likely not be getting blissey, heracross, salamence, gyarados, skarmory, cresella (sp?) etc. etc.

 

[Dragontamer]

Somehow I was thinking of a Magic: The Gathering draft. But nevermind that, your idea makes more sense.

 

[Gouki]

very true. What do you suggest? six players? maybe 4. I mean I play in fantasy football leagues that have 12 players and once it reaches round 6, you need to start making really good decisions.

But i understand what you are saying. If you were stuck with 8th, sure you would get 2 of the best 9, but at the same time you will most likely not be getting blissey, heracross, salamence, gyarados, skarmory, cresella (sp?) etc. etc.

I think six is the right number for this, 8 at the very most. Four could be slightly more ideal, but I feel that four people takes the whole tournament feel out of it. That's actually the whole problem with this format, a tournament becomes more fun the more people are in it. But I like the idea, and I'll definitely be up for it if you want to try.

 

[AlleyViper]

1) no element of surprise. After all, you will know who has the heracross, so if you choose gligar, you can just have him chill until you fight the heracross.

I think their's two solutions to this.

1.) Anonymous drafting. You have a neutral party moderate the draft, and each player informs that person of who they're picking. The moderater then simply informs everybody that, say, Blissey is off the board. You would only know what your pick is and who is gone, you wouldn't know who has what.

2.) After taking 8 or maybe 10 pokes, you make a team of 6 and THAT'S your team. No switching in and out between battles, which forces you to really closely consider what to put in your team with what you have. If you draft Gliscor as a Heracross counter, maybe the person who drafted Hera doesn't put it in their team (what? stop laughing!), or if it's a traditional bracket tourney, you may not even face Hera. That's the risk you run.

I think 8 people would be just about right for this, if you go 8-10 pokes per person. There should be a deep enough pool, IMHO. If you want to have more, then get really organized and stretch it out over multiple tourneys. You want 16? Have two 8 man drafts, then have the top two from each, maybe, face each other. That'd be interesting because then you could see what kind of teams other people ended up with. Maybe both people who picked first face each other in the finals and we get to see a #1 overall Blissey up against a #1 overall Gyarados.

 

[porygon3]

4 would be too small for something like this, I think it would be better with 8. There's enough usable pokemon for 8-10 or so picks each.

 

[Gouki]

I have an idea: The draft is split into two halves, with the first half Pokemon made into a team, and the second half draftees made into a seperate team. We play our opponent with the first team, then battle with the second. If we split the first two matches, then we choose three pokes from the first team and three from the second to make a tiebreaker team.

 

[Kimi3013]

Before you start working out how many people you can have in the draft, you're going to need to work out which pokemon can be used competitively. Taking into account that not everyone will be using Salamance and things like that, UU pokemon like Walrein would also be usable as the other teams would end up with pokemon of a similar level. Pokemon that used to be a "poor man's version" of better ones are also now viable to be used.

As for drafting, each person could make a list and order the pokemon they want and submit it. But this takes the problem if you end up with something three physical walls, two special sweepers, and baton passer who can only pass Swords Dance...

Fixing that could be ordered, and then put them in categories, so you'll only be getting one physical wall and one special wall. Could have you end up with some interesting teams, but not ideal. Fixes the problem of trying to do a live draft, much quicker that waiting for days... I dunno.

 

[Gouki]

We would definitely have to use an anonymous voting system, and I don't mind the draft taking a couple days. if you're impatient for a battle then go to the "Battle Me" forum.

 

[Better_Sandw1ch]

Honestly, when I think of a draft/league format to Pokemon, I think of a weekly round-robin style competition (with an eventual playoffs) rather than a straight-out tournament. Eight teams pick eight or nine pokemon each, facing off against one team each week for seven (or fourteen :p) weeks in order to be placed in brackets for a final tournament (ranking first by win/loss, then total pokemon left standing in wins, then total pokemon not KOed in losses).

Each week, a team is allowed to add one pokemon to their team, at the cost of dropping one of their current pokemon - of course, that pokemon would have to clear waivers first, going say 24 hours without being claimed by a team with higher priority (any team that claims a pokemon is sent to the bottom of the priority list). Trading is allowed on a one-to-one basis, either unlimited or also set to one per week. For playoffs, rosters are expanded to 10-11 pokemon, with the last-ranked team given first priority in choosing its first new member.

The problem with this format is that it would require a long-term investment by all participants in order to work, which might not be viable due to last-place teams choosing to quit midway through the process (even though all teams would make the finals), and that it does not reward teams for their placement in the regular season (some kind of home-field advantage would need to be devised, such as limited control over special clauses to be put into effect - most likely, home rules would have to be established before any games took place for each team). Advantages to this system include allowing opponents to metagame each other by adding on specific pokemon to counter their upcoming threat, scouting matches, or choosing to stay the course with their pokemon and grab up bargains for the postseason (at the expense of home-field advantage).

If sixteen people could be troubled to participate in the draft/league, teams could be split into two seperate leagues (Kanto/Johto, for naming purposes alone). Each league of eight would draft from a full pool of pokemon, not interacting with the other league expect perhaps for light interleague play, then combine for a playoff of eight people. This would encourage players to actively seek out victories in the regular season, as only the best four teams from each league would make the playoffs.

Yes, it's somewhat complicated. But that's what true league play is all about.

 

[rbygsc kid 251]

I think their's two solutions to this.

1.) Anonymous drafting. You have a neutral party moderate the draft, and each player informs that person of who they're picking. The moderater then simply informs everybody that, say, Blissey is off the board. You would only know what your pick is and who is gone, you wouldn't know who has what.

2.) After taking 8 or maybe 10 pokes, you make a team of 6 and THAT'S your team. No switching in and out between battles, which forces you to really closely consider what to put in your team with what you have. If you draft Gliscor as a Heracross counter, maybe the person who drafted Hera doesn't put it in their team (what? stop laughing!), or if it's a traditional bracket tourney, you may not even face Hera. That's the risk you run.

I think 8 people would be just about right for this, if you go 8-10 pokes per person. There should be a deep enough pool, IMHO. If you want to have more, then get really organized and stretch it out over multiple tourneys. You want 16? Have two 8 man drafts, then have the top two from each, maybe, face each other. That'd be interesting because then you could see what kind of teams other people ended up with. Maybe both people who picked first face each other in the finals and we get to see a #1 overall Blissey up against a #1 overall Gyarados.

I love the anonymous drafting. Only 1 slight problem with that. The person who picks second will know who was picked first. the person who picks third will most likely know who the first two picks were. For example, you pick blissey 1st and then I use my second pick on blissey and realize that you have her. Well, now I'm going to take heracross, and you have no idea what i have on my team, and I am aware of your blissey. Now you could pick gyarados first, and i could go for blissey second and NEITHER of us knows who is on who's team, but that is a heavy risk you are running. (well by risk I mean the person behind you could find out what you have)

here is why i don't think knowing your opponents teams is so bad. okay, you go first and pick blissey and then i go second and pick heracross. sure, i can counter you but as was mentioned before if we don't meet in the bracket, well i may have screwed myself, and lets say i draft 10 poke's and heracross is at the top of the list. umm, i am definitily going to use them (im not laughing at you, lol), but the only thing u will know when you pick ur six poke's (out of 10) is the other 70 pokemon that are floating around (10 pokes x 7 players) When you look around, is that salamence going to ultimately be ur demise? If so, you may want to through an ice counter on your team.

And actually, thank you for mentioning the whole not using heracross thing. Who's to say if I pick 6th and Salamence is still on the board that i will not take him? After all, you are drafting 10 guys, so you do not need to use 4 of them. I would simply draft Salamence to spite everyone. I would not have to worry about countering him. Now sure, I will be put at a slight (possilibily a huge) disadvantage because my best guy will be 11th. As long as I can utilize my 22nd and 27th picks well then I will be just fine.

Glisor can still be useful even if you don't face heracross. I think the built in counter is just a huge bonus.

and finally, i love your 16 man ordeal. Yes, there would be two blisseys in the tourney, but they could only face each other in the "super bowl" if you will.

 

[nomargu46]

Sounds cool, to tell ya the truth. but i dont think it needs to be done on Competitor. if its irl, it adds another component to the game -- players will generally not pick pokes if they arent confident in the poke they have there. @rbygsc, are you willing to host such a tournament?