A Top 5 Suspect Team (With Baton Passing!)

[Raj]

Hey all, this is a team inspired by Mr. Darkrai. With it I achieved the fifth spot on the Suspect Leaderboard under the alias Latios Sucks, before cheating myself up to number three. For that I apologised; it was silly to do such a thing in the first place, especially when I had already clenched Top 5. Anyways, the puspose of the team is to lower the power of the opponent to an extent so that they cannot retaliate before I get in a successful set up for Metagross.

The Goods:

Smeargle @ Fouces Sash
Own Tempo
Jolly
252 HP/ 6 Def/ 252 Spe
~Spore
~Thunderwave
~Stealth Rock
~Spikes

This guy has served me well for a very long time on Shoddy. After over a year of use, Double Spore/Spikes is still working. If you haven't guessed how this works already, Spore the lead, T-Wave the switch, and set up entry hazards till you die. SR is an absolute necessity on any team nowadawys and I find that the Spikes help me get the desperately needed KOs with Metagross.

Azelf @ Life Orb
Leviatate
Naive
6 Att/ 252 Sp Att/ 252 Spe
~Flamethrower
~Thunderbolt
~HP Ice
~Explosion

This guy really packs a punch and will give you a run for your money. It scores OHKOs on most of OU and wipes out anything holding Gliscor back. HP Ice necessary for dealing with Salamence before a Dragon Dance, Thunderbolt gets those nasty Gyarados, and Flamethrower.. is well, Flamethrower. It hits Steels like Metagross, Luke, and Scizor hard, but to be honest I've yet to use it for fear of Extremespeed/Bullet Punch. When things get Nasty or I'm sure Blissey won't use Protect.. Splode!

Uxie @ Leftovers
Levitate
Timid
252 HP/ 6 Def/ 252 Spe
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Thunderwave
~Memento

Thesecond of the Elven trio generally marks Phase 1 of Beast Mode. Thunderwave whatever you're facing, set up your first screen according to the opponent's current Pokemon, set up the other screen, and kill yourself with Memento. Whether Physical Attacker or Special, they now have a -4 decrease to both attacking stats, and I don't waste a turn on the switch either thanks to Memento. Gliscor commemorates Phase 2.

Gliscor @ Yache Berry
Hyper Cutter
Careful
252 HP/ 6 Def/ 252 SP Def
~Agility
~Taunt
~Swords Dance
~Baton Pass

If you think Gliscor can't take a Special Attack, you'd be wrong. With the investment given he survives nearly any Sp Att even if the oppnent has switched after the Memento, or even if my Screens have died down. Yache helps alot too. Agility is the most important thing here since Metagross can sweep even without the Swords Dance boost. After Agility, Dance or Taunt accordingly, then pass to Gross to tear shit apart.

Latios @ Leftovers
Levitate
Timid
252 HP/ 6 Def/ 252 Spe
~Draco Meteor
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Memento

It can never hurt to have a back up plan, so if I killed off Uxie prematurely, I can still win the match with this. Draco Meteor is for immediate threats, namely Breloom/Salamence, who each get their asses handed to them. Double Screen/Memento is the same fashion as Uxie.

Metagross @ Shuca Berry
Clear Body
Adamant
46 HP/ 252 Att/ 212 Spe
~Meteor Mash
~Thunderpunch
~Ice Punch
~Earthquake

After an Agility and a Swords Dance, this is near impossible to take out, but that doesn't stop me from going overboard with 2 Dances.. Most people assumes that Metagross is the Pass target and will Earthquake, so I found that Shuca always keeps him in the runnings. BoltBeamPunchQuake is for coverage and Meteor Mash hits like a rock.. or a steel slab I guess. Metagross makes the optimum target to pass to because of it's amazing Attack as well as great typing and Defenses that allow him to take Scizor Bullet Punches like a champ.

Anyways, I'd like some feedback on this team because I think there is room for improvement before I start laddering on another (untarnished) alias completely legitimately. Everything but Smeargle and Azelf fits together like puzzle pieces so I'd keep those four. Smeargle just proves damn useful and a sturdier lead than any else I've tried. Azelf is cool, but I'm not sure this is his place in my team. Perhaps something could take on a more active spot in aiding me for when the Passing doesn't go quite so well.

 

[EagleX]

you should have lum berry on metagross imo so it still sweep after it gets paralyzed or burned
edit: and put light clay on both dual screeners to make them last longer

 

[ultimifier]

and possibly a light screen on one of latios or gliscor to prolong the screens for an extra 3 turns. since uxie will be killing himless with memento i dont see a point of leftovers on him

 

[y2zipper]

A smeargle lead is almost always going to lose to infernape or metagross. I'd stick to yours because it beats gross, sporing him after the bullet punch or SR, T-wave, and set up your own rocks. It still gets beat by trick-gross leads, though.

Azelf is my only concern because he doesn't really fit. I'm not really sure what to replace him with, though.

Now that I think about it, you can use a physical variant to pass to in case Metagross dies, or, you can use Grass Knot over Thunderbolt to hit Swampert, which is something you may not have an answer for.

uxie really really wants light clay so that screen is 8 turns.

I'd also consider Bullet Punch over Meteor Mash on Gross just for accuracy concerns. Meteor Mash's 85 can let you down sometimes, and with a Swords Dance, The power loss shouldn't hurt you.

I'll playtest it and report back later, though.

That said, this team looks fun and I might test it some because I've been in a slump lately and it looks fun.

 

[Scoopapa]

Your lead fails pretty hard against taunt and trick, two very common lead strategies. If they decide to keep their taunt lead alive after shutting down Smeargle, they will probably give you lots of trouble later on.

Also, only three of your pokemon attack, and Latios only has Draco Meteor. If a Ttar pops in on Azelf and pursuits, you have only Metagross to attack more than once without switching. This means you are at a huge disadvantage if anything goes remotely wrong (which is likely against a decent player). If you don't get more than one boost, a lot of things still phaze you. Steelix isn't common, but can probably phaze you unless you get three boosts.

Instead of using Latios as a second screener, I would suggest using it or something else as a backup attacker - something to regain lost momentum if things go wrong, and possibly something that will enjoy a boost from Gliscor if Metagross meets an untimely demise. This might make your team more robust, and less "hit or miss".

 

[Sir J]

Uxie should probably run Light Clay over Leftovers.

I'd also consider Bullet Punch over Meteor Mash on Gross just for accuracy concerns. Meteor Mash's 85 can let you down sometimes, and with a Swords Dance, The power loss shouldn't hurt you.

If the accuracy is a big enough issue, Metagross could run Iron Head. Lum berry could be used if the OP finds his metagross tends to be status'd on the Baton Pass in.

Consider replacing Metagross with Simple Bibarel, with Waterfall/Return/Filler/Filler, possibly Superpower, for Empoleon, and Quick attack for threatening prioity users. Again, Lum berry is viable, as with Leftovers.

 

[panamaxis]

I suggested a back up reciever incase your facing something like a heatran against gliscor. Gyarados has great synergy and it could fiit well. Also, most of your team gets screwed by taunt, so you could use a lead crobat with taunt, I've seen Wdro use it very effectively. Lum on metagross and light clay on uxie and latios. Also I think zen headbutt would do well on metagross > Ice punch so you have an easier time against Swampert and Rotom.

@ Sir J, never use superpower on simple bibarel, the +2 atk and def drops are just suicide,

 

[LoveDensity]

seriously though why bash his lead. Smeargle leads actually do very good job leading with a supporting move like stealth rock. Sure, things stop it, but huge upside and beat leads slower than it if not holding lum berry.

I use a similar set that got me to Top 20 in OU currently:

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Own Tempo
Jolly
252 Atk/252 Spd
~Spore
~Spikes
~Endeavor
~Extremespeed

Some things I can see screwing you is something like SubHeatran with something as rare as roar after taunt is out. You can fit another physical sweeper in azelf's spot just in case like.. a dragonite. But other wards, solid team

 

[sora13]

Instead of Stealth Rock/Spikes on Smeargle, put Magic Coat. It stops Taunt amd status leads right in their tracks, reflecting it back.

Mind rating my RMT?

 

[Stallion]

I run a Memento team, and I've found that a supporting sweeper like Gyarados, most likely over Azelf, will make your team alot more efficient then it currently is. The other thing I do differently is run 52 HP/216 Def/180 Speed/60 Special Defense Bold on Latios, I think it survives a Choice Band or Scarf (i forgot which, but it was choiced) Scizor's U-Turn with 50 % health remaining once I've gotten a screen up. The speed is for neutral Salamence and the rest for survivability. You run Uxie though so its not really an issue.

I run an Encore Infernape lead to force the opponent into something like a water attack and commence setup. I dunno I just find Smeargle too easily stopped by something like Taunt.

Also one quick question for you, does Shuca Berry merit use over something like Lum Berry, which I run on my Metagross, or do you find Shuca is more effective overall. The second is the debate of Iron Head vs Meteor Mash. Are there any key KOs after a SD that Meteor Mash misses out on, cause if not 100 % accuracy and 30 % flinch is suprisingly godly.

Anyway I love the team, partly cause we came up with the same team type independently and partly cause you got so high with it :). Gl in the future.

EDIT: Oh and please put Light Clay on one of your screeners.

 

[Havak]

I'd definitely agree with everyone else and suggest Light Clay on one of (if not both) or your Screeners.

How does Smeargle usually fair against Taunt leads? Or Infernape with Fake Out.. I still see a lot of those so it's surprising to see that lead work, without trying something along the lines of Choice Scarf with Spore, Trick, Stealth Rock and something else, maybe Thunder Wave or Spikes to keep a similar strategy going.

I know it's often difficult to gain a real advantage when relying on keeping the lead asleep if they don't switch, but it's worth a shot.

I like the team though, nicely done for the most part, but I'm a little surprised it did so well on the ladder to tell you the truth as I can see Scizor doing some real damage. I guess not enough people opt for Brick Break these days, they really should.

Instead of Stealth Rock/Spikes on Smeargle, put Magic Coat. It stops Taunt amd status leads right in their tracks, reflecting it back.

Mind rating my RMT?

IIRC that's a Shoddy glitch, I don't think people should abuse it but whatever.

 

[wDro]

I think a tyranitar would help against hail teams.

Also Lum berry is the better choice because you would hate switching metagross into things like dynamic punch/lava plume/discharge/body slam. Freeze does happen more than once in every 10 games because your opponent usually would be constantly firing ice beams at gliscor.

Zen headbutt is a decent option instead of ice punch as +3 EQ can't OHKO max max swampert without rocks/spikes. Also, it hits max def Rotom-A very hard. So Zen headbutt definitely is useful here. Without IP, however, you would need to rely on MM to KO hippowdon and celebi. Can +3 zen headbutt OHKO defensive zapdos?

 

[LoveDensity]

Instead of Stealth Rock/Spikes on Smeargle, put Magic Coat. It stops Taunt amd status leads right in their tracks, reflecting it back.

Mind rating my RMT?

There aren't much good status leads other than Scarfloom and hypnosis 60% prevents many popular use. Magic coat doesnt stop taunt, its a shoddy glitch. The Smeargle set, I say you have there is fine(just unsure if something could work better like Lead Aerodactyl.) I also second the t-tar option for this team over something like Azelf. Its bulky and takes some random fire blasts

 

[wildfire393]

Hm... Combo teams. From what I've seen, they tend to work very well for the first game against any given opponent, but come the second or third game, you're in trouble. The team I faced was Suicide Aerodactyl, Double-Screen + Explosion Azelf (also with a focus sash if I recall correctly), your Gliscor, a Metagross, Double Screen + LunarDance Cresselia (to restore Gliscor for a second go), 4 attack Gyarados. After playing him once, the following game I switched my Rotom-H in on his Explosion and Tricked a Scarf onto his Gliscor on the Agility. The team basically falls apart from there. The game after that I switched in Togekiss when my active Pokemon died to Explosion, and wore Gliscor down with Flamethrower, then sprung ExtremeSpeed on him the turn he was about to Baton Pass.

My suggestion is to replace Azelf with an alternate Baton Passer, but preferably one that can do a bit of sweeping on its own. Perhaps SD/Agility/Iron Head/Baton Pass Scizor?

 

[wDro]

The same thing can be said about your team with togekiss with flamethrower and extremespeed... The reason is that the DS user has no idea what the opponent's team does in the first game due to the fast sweep. Second game comes along, the opposing team can use the information they gain from the first game to their advantage.

 

[wildfire393]

The same thing can be said about your team with togekiss with flamethrower and extremespeed... The reason is that the DS user has no idea what the opponent's team does in the first game due to the fast sweep. Second game comes along, the opposing team can use the information they gain from the first game to their advantage.

Yeah, Mixed Togekiss definitely plays off of the surprise factor. The best part is that, even after seeing some of his moves in a previous game, the opponent can frequently be screwed over by the remaning moves, or even by underestimating the ones they've seen (example: ExtremeSpeed can 2HKO Blissey and Zapdos).

Either way, it is worthwhile to pack a secondary Baton Pass target and/or a second Baton Passer (and possibly LunarDance DS Cress). Once your opponent has seen and been swept by your first Baton Pass target, they may be prepared for the second. Metagross being Baton Passed into a Fire Blast/Will-o-Wisp/Haze or even a strong enough Neutral hit can spell his death or the end of the sweep. And with Metagross out of the picture, very little else can threaten the opposing team.

I'm also concerned about something like Scizor setting up on your Screeners. He doesn't really care about thunderwave and cares fairly little about Draco Meteor, he can Brick Break through screens, and Swords Dance can keep him above Momento's lowering if he does it while you start to set up screens. His boosted Bullet Punch will do a real number on Azelf, Smeargle, Latios, and to a lesser extent, Uxie, and the really bad thing is that only Azelf and Metagross can actually damage him. And Metagross's best attack versus him is a Neutral Earthquake, which is very unlikey to OHKO (max of 50% to a standard SD Scizor, while Scizor's +2 LO X-Scissor does 96-113% in return). Replacing Azelf with an alternate Baton Pass target like Gyarados could really go a long way to stopping Scizor from tearing up your team.

 

[Raj]

Wow, I've never received this much feedback before. I' definitely agree that Light Clay in necessary (what the hell was i thinkng?!). I'm going to start with Panamaxis post since the one's before it also get asked later.

I've really been thinking that Gyarados would fit along nicely in here. My main issue is that if ever I need to pass to him instead of Gross he's already at a 25% damage disadvantage. Then again, he's only my backup.

So far, Taunt has been a very minor problem, but nothing too serious. Uxie reaches 317 Speed, fast enough to beat most Taunters, and Gliscor's got the upper hand on anything as long as it can get in an Agility first.

@ LoveDestiny- Heatran is almost non-existant in Suspect. Latios takes care of it with ease.

@MS- Actually, the Latios I'm running has been taking ~40% from U-Turns and just laughs at Pursuit attempts. The Speed investment guarantess that I'll always outspeed Infernape and Salamence, tie with Gengar, and outspeed many opposing Latios.

As for Lum, I've tried it and it doesn't work as good as Shuca has been for me. For starters, Gliscor can Taunt before the pass making Lum unnecessary except on the off chance of a side effect. Also, when you're playing the same people over and over again on Suspect they tend to know what's next and use EQ on the pass if they expect Gross. With Shuca, the only thing taking me down is a Crit or a boosted Fire Blast/Flamethrower (which has happened once, but I'm not too worried about it)

@Havak- I rarely see Ape leads on Suspect anymore, but when I do I just bring out Uxie to take a hit and face little damage. When I get the opportunity to, I get Smeargle back in and it works just as effectively. Will definitely try to see how Zen Headbutt works over Ice Punch. Only thing is, I want to try out Iron Head as well, only I can't do both at the same time else Celebi can get me. I'll see..

@Wildfire- On Suspect you've got to play everyone a jillion times to get anywhere so I know what you mean, but it still works everytime. There just isn't that much you can do against this kind of tactic unless you do have a fast Taunter.

 

[wDro]

I gave my gliscor some speed because even after one agility gliscor is still slower than common trickscarfers like jirachi/gengar/latios. Also if your initial speed is too slow, and you happen to switch your gliscor into celebi/gyarados, you would either get seeded or DD'd before you can taunt.

Also you got so many replies because this kind of team is fun to play with ^_^

 

[sheep]

Hey, on your Uxie description, it's a 2 stage decrease.

Not 4.

Good team though.

 

[Itsuki]

Hey all, this is a team inspired by Mr. Darkrai.

^_^ I don't post in the RMT often but I saw this.

So your Latios Sucks. Have you gotten negative comments from others too? Anyways I'm not so great at fixing teams and such butt I just wanted to post.

Some minor nitpicks. I'd take wDro's advice and run Speed EVs. Also run Calm on Gliscor and Timid on Smeargle to reduct Confusion damage and such, I know this is minor but it helps out a lot.

Som problems I've had were Pokemon carrying stat increasing moves and Brick Break and it'd seem that Scizor would hurt.

Edit: Lum Berry has helped me big time. I know Shuca Berry is more appealing to you but I've had so many Rotom-A and such status me and Lum Berry saved me.

 

[Darkmalice]

This took me an hour. It's such an interesting team with lots of potential, and I felt compelled to write a large rate. Feel free to PM about this rate.


Smeargle:

The general pattern of Smeargle vs a Pokemon faster than it is it will attack Smeargle, leaving it on 1 HP. Smeargle will Spore. Then Smeargle with T-wave the switch-in. Then it will set up SR and die, with no time for Spikes, or it will die, without SR being set up, from a priority move, for your opponent will want it removed as quickly as possible. Spikes will only work against slower opponents besides Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Abomasnow (their abilities render Focus Sash useless).

I agree with sora13; replace Spikes with Magic Coat. Taunt from Azelf, Aerodactyl and any pokemon faster than your base 75 speed Smeargle will render him completely useless. Magic Coat can make this scenario work in your favour. I was originally thinking of using Taunt, but your Taunt weakness is much more important.


Azelf:

Try replacing it with Offensive LO Zapdos. You have 4 Pyschic pokemon your team, and 3 of them have weaknesses to Dark, Ghost and Pyschic attacks. Zapdos doesn't. Zapdos also sports Roost in place of Explosion to keep it alive for longer. Zapdos packs more power in his attacks thanks to STAB on Thunderbolt. HP Grass > HP Ice, because Swampert can be problematic; his typing is great at walling Metagross, he has Ice Attacks for Gliscor, and Gliscor is needed to Taunt him. whilst Salamence has a 74.36% chance of being OHKOed by LO Thunderbolt after SR damage. Should Salamence survive, LO recoil will finish him off.


Latios:

Replace Draco Meteor with Recover, so that Latios will live longer. And, please, as everyone has already said, replace Leftovers with Light Clay.


Uxie:

I'm against two Dual Screeners on the same team. Remove it. Recover will greatly improve Latios reliability in setting up DS and using Memento. As well, you have 3 pokemon weak to Dark and Ghost, and no resists of the move. The only pokemon on your team that has a chance agains Tyranitar is Metagross, who you really want to save for a Baton Pass sweep. Replace Uxie with this Scizor;
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Doesn't matter
Superpower
Roost
Swords Dance
Baton Pass
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 68 Def / 172 Spe


I need to explain this after describing some changes to Gliscor:

Have 252 HP / 196 SpD / 60 Spe EVs with a Timid nature. The extra speed enables Gliscor to outrun Adamant Gyarados before a Rock Polish, and to outspeed Timid Scarf Gengar after a Rock Polish.

Replace Swords Dance with Roost. This enables Gliscor to live much longer and to shed his quadruple Ice weakness. With this, Yache Berry is no longer needed and Gliscor can have Lum Berry. This is in case he receives status as he switches in that could potentially cripple his Baton Passing ability, most notably Sleep and Toxic. Why no Swords Dance? After using Rock Polish, he plans to Baton Pass to Scizor.

Scizor will then proceed to set up the Swords Dance for a sweep. The EVs are in defence, for Double Screen may run out when Scizor is stating up, and he wants to be able to take hits without DS support. Roost aids this as well. Superpower is for that disturbing Dark weakness, OHKOing Tyranitar and Weavile. His extra defence aids Scizor in switching STAB Dark attacks. Bullet Punch is absent, for that requires extra EV investment to 2HKO Tyranitar, and it's priority means little after a Rock Polish boost. But most importantly, the given EVs with +2 Superpower enable Scizor to OHKO 4 HP / 0 Def neutral nature Heatran. Scizor has just enough speed to outrun +speed nature Scarf Heatran after a Rock Polish boost. So as that Heatran comes in as you set up SD, you Superpower for a OHKO. Only Superpower is capable of this. Scizor's typing is great for your team, patching up the Dark and Ghost weakness. Timid Gengar's Shadow Ball is a 4HKO at best, who is easy to set up on.

When using Scizor, be aware that he cannot stop phazers. So it's important that Zapdos KOs Swampert and Skarmory before sending in Scizor, something that Azelf isn't nearly as good as thanks to worse defences and lack of Roost and HP Grass. If a phazer is left on your opponent's team, it's probably best to go straight from Gliscor to Metagross; you won't have time to pass Swords Dance. Hippowdon and Donphan with Roar are problematic for you team.


Metagross:

Lum Berry is recommended on Metagross to avoid status. Shucca Berry isn't nearly as useful with Scizor being able to take down Heatran.