Thanks, I'll run Sylveon, Aegislash, and Mega Absol. Now to figure out the rest.
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Pokémon Absol
- Thread starter Adamant Zoroark
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Though not entirely certain, I did a little digging and I'm willing suggest Arcanine and Dragalge as good alternate teammates for Absol, since they both can switch in on an attack that Absol is weak to.
Arcanine's Fire type lets it resist Fairy and Bug while its Intimidate can help it come in on Fighting type moves (and physical moves in general) a little bit easier. I'm not sure if it's bulk is good enough (90HP/80Def/80SDef), but it has nice mixed attacking stats (110Atk/100SAtk/95Spe) according to Arcanine's Smogon page, it's a very versatile Pokémon that can be built to suit your needs. Arcanine seems to me like a very good complement to Absol but I'm wondering if you guys think it qualifies as a check to typical high-defense things that check Absol.
Dragalge's Poison/Dragon typing lets it resist Fighting and Bug while taking neutral damage from Fairy. It's got decent bulk (65HP/90Def/123SDef) and, according to what I read of the Dragalge thread, enough SAtk (97) to viably run a Choice Specs set with its hidden ability, Adaptability. It's typing makes it weak to Psychic too, which is great since it's one of the few types that Absol can switch into. Synergy! :D
Hah, it's pretty much what my team is so far. Still having trouble deciding on spinners and such, though. I only have one slot left for me.
Movesets in case anyone's wondering:
Aegislash I use the stance dance set. It's not great, but it's good for revenge killing and taking hits. (Especially with King's Shield)
MegaAbsol I run a Swords Dance set. Because it's really the only thing it can run right now before pokebank.
Sylveon I run CM/Wish set. Sylveon has the bulk to use Wish as recovery and Ghost/Fairy has near perfect coverage.
Dragalge actually sounds really interesting as a partner. I'm more concerned about the Earthquake vulnerability, though.
I am working on a team with a core of MegaAbsol/Chandelure/Skarmory. I am thinking of throwing in Toxicroak (he can punish Fairies with Poison Jab, come in on water attacks aimed at Chandelure and bait Psychic attacks for Absol). I won't talk about sets and such here until I have some more usage results from battles, but it looks rather promising on paper.
Right, my findings are telling me that Megabsol IS good at going mixed; (set I used was SP/Pursuit/Rough Play/Fire Blast or Ice Beam) it fucks up Klefki something wonderful between Magic Bounce and Fire Blast, and Ice Beam is amazing for Gliscor as well.
But it absolutely canNOT stop things with Sucker Punch without a boost. It's so damn frail that just about anything kills it, and it failed to KO things like Talonflame even AFTER they had a small chunk taken out of them. I'm trying Swords Dance/Sucker Punch/Rough Play/special filler next. Pursuit hasn't served me terribly well.
But it absolutely canNOT stop things with Sucker Punch without a boost. It's so damn frail that just about anything kills it, and it failed to KO things like Talonflame even AFTER they had a small chunk taken out of them. I'm trying Swords Dance/Sucker Punch/Rough Play/special filler next. Pursuit hasn't served me terribly well.
Speaking of Fire Blast, does it get Flamethrower? If it does, would it be worth considering over Fire Blast? The accuracy on Fire Blast has been about as bad for me lately as Focus Blast. I was curious on whether or not Flamethrower will still do the job, cause if Fire Blast is a 2hit KO on stuff (keep in mind Sturdy Pokemon, the accuracy of Fire Blast, and Assault Vests), then I'd rather go Flamethrower instead... or Ice Beam.
You need the power, and don't really need the PP. Absol is kind of an all-or-nothing pokemon with those defenses. I'm surprised you've found it that inaccurate, though.
yeah, main thing is that Absol is great against really fast fragile threats. But anything with ANY bulk it just can't do a whole lot to, even with max attack. Through some testing it really needs that SD boost, but I've never had an opportunity in my matches to use it.
yeah, main thing is that Absol is great against really fast fragile threats. But anything with ANY bulk it just can't do a whole lot to, even with max attack. Through some testing it really needs that SD boost, but I've never had an opportunity in my matches to use it.
I think Mega Absol is best suited on a dedicated stall team as a late game cleaner and insurance against most hazard setters. After some phazing with hazards, there's not a lot it can't clean up on, and its immunity to status helps bait attacks for Sucker Punch, as well as keeping hazards from being set while it's on the field. Virtual status immunity helps too. I see baiting a dark type attack with something like Jellicent, switching Justified Absol in to get a free +1 to that lovely attack, then mega evolving and killing it back. Definitely not meant as a sweeper, though. Sure, it gets the strongest priority in the game barring Arceus' Extremespeed, but it's not going to stop things like Azumarill, Scizor or Mega Lucario from killing you dead.
I think his main weakness, aside from being about as sturdy as a wet tissue, is four moveslot syndrome. Megabsol gets some great options like wish, baton pass, and snatch to round out his offenses, but the need to have working coverage sees to it that it'll only ever carry one of these, if at all. If you carry swords dance, you then have to fight between Play Rough, Psycho Cut or Superpower. Play Rough covers everything Psycho Cut would, but with the imminent popularity of Assault Vest Ttar I think Superpower is a necessity. It helps to smack Ferrothorn around too, but you might be better off with a mixed set, since Fire Blast is a guaranteed OHKO.
Snatch is amazing for added oomph against Mega Gengar, though. Predict correctly and nab his sub and you're guaranteed a KO or forced switch, as well as added bulk for a pokemon that really can't take a hit. A free swords dance never hurts, either.
I think I might use this guy on a team with copycat-roaring Riolu for maximum trolling power.
I think his main weakness, aside from being about as sturdy as a wet tissue, is four moveslot syndrome. Megabsol gets some great options like wish, baton pass, and snatch to round out his offenses, but the need to have working coverage sees to it that it'll only ever carry one of these, if at all. If you carry swords dance, you then have to fight between Play Rough, Psycho Cut or Superpower. Play Rough covers everything Psycho Cut would, but with the imminent popularity of Assault Vest Ttar I think Superpower is a necessity. It helps to smack Ferrothorn around too, but you might be better off with a mixed set, since Fire Blast is a guaranteed OHKO.
Snatch is amazing for added oomph against Mega Gengar, though. Predict correctly and nab his sub and you're guaranteed a KO or forced switch, as well as added bulk for a pokemon that really can't take a hit. A free swords dance never hurts, either.
I think I might use this guy on a team with copycat-roaring Riolu for maximum trolling power.
Those mixed offenses... Absol is just screaming for an all-out attacker set as it is, but with the stat boosts its Mega Evo provides, this only gets amplified. Considering I have a lot of experience playing with and against Absol in Gen V thanks to playing RU a lot, the following set just looks pretty good:
All-Out Attacker
(Mega) Absol @ Absolite
Trait: Justified (Magic Bounce after Mega Evo)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant / Jolly / Naughty / Naive
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Night Slash
- Pursuit / Fire Blast / Ice Beam
Anyone who has played RU in Gen V knows the premise of this set. You come in and start breaking shit down. However, the twist here is that you can Mega Evo in Gen VI. With this, Absol has much greater freedom in spamming Sucker Punch as only Substitute users can play around it and ensure survival as setup sweepers without Sub are still exposed to attacks and all other status moves are rendered useless by Magic Bounce. Play Rough gives really nice coverage as it crushes the Fighting- and Dark-types that otherwise can hold up against Absol's STAB based on resistance. It's also nice for hitting all of those Dragon-types (although Lati@s can be killed by your Dark STABs) Night Slash provides a more reliable STAB for when you outspeed the opposition and don't need the slightly higher power of Sucker Punch. (the Speed increase makes this a lot more relevant than it used to be) The last slot gives Absol offensive utility. Pursuit is cool since Absol can scare out so many things with the threat of its powerful STAB priority Sucker Punch. However, thanks to the Special Attack boost, using a Special Attack isn't out of the question. Fire Blast is nice for those Steel-types that can take a Sucker Punch / Night Slash (think Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, etc.) and possibly retaliate. It's also really nice to hit Aegislash without activating King's Shield. If you're having some trouble with Landorous-T and Gliscor, Ice Beam is a decent alternative to take them out completely. Keep in mind that Ice Beam's use is limited to these two since Play Rough handles Dragons. Nature choice is pretty simple. If you go with Pursuit, use Adamant or Jolly. If you go with a Special Attack, use Naughty or Naive and shift the extra EVs to Special Attack. Adamant and Naughty give you more power while Jolly and Naive let you outspeed the likes of Gengar, Lati@s, and that crowded base 108 Speed tier after you Mega Evo.
All-Out Attacker
(Mega) Absol @ Absolite
Trait: Justified (Magic Bounce after Mega Evo)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant / Jolly / Naughty / Naive
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Night Slash
- Pursuit / Fire Blast / Ice Beam
Anyone who has played RU in Gen V knows the premise of this set. You come in and start breaking shit down. However, the twist here is that you can Mega Evo in Gen VI. With this, Absol has much greater freedom in spamming Sucker Punch as only Substitute users can play around it and ensure survival as setup sweepers without Sub are still exposed to attacks and all other status moves are rendered useless by Magic Bounce. Play Rough gives really nice coverage as it crushes the Fighting- and Dark-types that otherwise can hold up against Absol's STAB based on resistance. It's also nice for hitting all of those Dragon-types (although Lati@s can be killed by your Dark STABs) Night Slash provides a more reliable STAB for when you outspeed the opposition and don't need the slightly higher power of Sucker Punch. (the Speed increase makes this a lot more relevant than it used to be) The last slot gives Absol offensive utility. Pursuit is cool since Absol can scare out so many things with the threat of its powerful STAB priority Sucker Punch. However, thanks to the Special Attack boost, using a Special Attack isn't out of the question. Fire Blast is nice for those Steel-types that can take a Sucker Punch / Night Slash (think Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, etc.) and possibly retaliate. It's also really nice to hit Aegislash without activating King's Shield. If you're having some trouble with Landorous-T and Gliscor, Ice Beam is a decent alternative to take them out completely. Keep in mind that Ice Beam's use is limited to these two since Play Rough handles Dragons. Nature choice is pretty simple. If you go with Pursuit, use Adamant or Jolly. If you go with a Special Attack, use Naughty or Naive and shift the extra EVs to Special Attack. Adamant and Naughty give you more power while Jolly and Naive let you outspeed the likes of Gengar, Lati@s, and that crowded base 108 Speed tier after you Mega Evo.
With the above set, I would take Knock Off over Night Slash. I'd trade 5 power and high crit for getting rid of their item permanently any day. Of course, I am not convinced he needs a... weaker, non-priority STAB move. I'd much rather have two of Pursuit/Ice Beam/Fire Blast than even Knock Off, let alone Night Slash.
Knock off isn't legal in X/Y yet, he's probably talking about what can be done at the moment. The only notable moves available at the moment, in subjective order of significance, are Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Swords Dance, Pursuit, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, and maybe Mean Look. Really disappointed that we didn't get move tutors in X/Y. Looks like we'll have to wait for the inevitable 3rd version.
What about a Calm Mind set? It would also be good with Baton Pass chains and Espeon.
I noticed it got Calm Mind too, but it seems only safe to set up on something you're absolutely certain won't kill you. Absol's defenses are really something to be left desired. You want to hit as hard as possible with Absol, because you can hardly afford to take a hit - and running a physical set over a special one is why this is preferred (not to mention 150 base attack from Mega). The mixed sets allow us to have an answer to Ferrothorn/Forretress/Skarmory with Fire Blast.
Now if you can manage to Baton Pass a Calm Mind + Substitute to Absol, then yeah, I'm sure Absol would appreciate it. I still think it would rather rely on the physical/mixed side though. It is nice that it gets Ice Beam and Fire Blast, and having 115 special attack from Mega is worth considering.
In all honesty, I want to say the same for Swords Dance in regards to setting up. I'm having a hard time finding a good time to Swords Dance, when Absol can't even risk to take a hit. I feel like this is a Pokemon for a very dedicated kind of team, one that caters to holding the forte, and leaving Absol to clean up weakened Pokemon. This is not a Pokemon you can just slap on any team and expect to excel in. Absol is a very hit-or-miss (and quite literally too, considering Fire Blast's and Play Rough's accuracy) and the definition of a glass cannon.
*Edit* I'm pretty much stating what Impy said, and more of my own thoughts.
Now if you can manage to Baton Pass a Calm Mind + Substitute to Absol, then yeah, I'm sure Absol would appreciate it. I still think it would rather rely on the physical/mixed side though. It is nice that it gets Ice Beam and Fire Blast, and having 115 special attack from Mega is worth considering.
In all honesty, I want to say the same for Swords Dance in regards to setting up. I'm having a hard time finding a good time to Swords Dance, when Absol can't even risk to take a hit. I feel like this is a Pokemon for a very dedicated kind of team, one that caters to holding the forte, and leaving Absol to clean up weakened Pokemon. This is not a Pokemon you can just slap on any team and expect to excel in. Absol is a very hit-or-miss (and quite literally too, considering Fire Blast's and Play Rough's accuracy) and the definition of a glass cannon.
*Edit* I'm pretty much stating what Impy said, and more of my own thoughts.
With that very respectable speed, Mega Absol could be the middle link in a baton pass chain pretty easily... so long as he's already Mega Evolved. I think something like Sucker Punch / Fire Blast / Mean Look / Baton Pass could work. Baton pass in on Haze/Roar/Whirlwind/Topsy-Turvy, reflecting it in the process. Mean Look their counterpick on the switch-in and then baton pass out before they can attack, trapping them with your (presumably boosted) counterpick. Would certainly make the enemy think twice about trying to play with your boosts. This would also make him a good baton pass recipient, with Dark/Fire lacking neutral coverage on very little except TTar and Sharpedo. Probably not as good as the clean-up sweeper or mind games sets, but workable with the right team mates.
Has anyone tried running Absol in a core with Weezing? He is immune to Weezing's only weakness, and Weezing resists all of Absol's weaknesses, not to mention being immune to ground. If Drapion (Dark/Poison) has Levitate like weezing, he'd have no weaknesses.
Has anyone tried running Absol in a core with Weezing? He is immune to Weezing's only weakness, and Weezing resists all of Absol's weaknesses, not to mention being immune to ground. If Drapion (Dark/Poison) has Levitate like weezing, he'd have no weaknesses.
That's just because move order is set before Mega Evolution; nothing else is.
They both get them on the turn they megaevolve.
It's just who goes first is decided BEFORE Banette megaevolves, so it's actual effect FROM Prankster isn't usable until the turn afterwards.
Yeah, Knock Off will be an option once PokeBank is released, but I was just going off of what it has available to it right now. And honestly, I like having that STAB you can use that doesn't rely on the opponent attacking. It would suck for a slower Sub user / setup sweeper to be able to beat you just because you don't have a secondary STAB move to use.
It's worth pointing out that Play Rough + any Gen V move tutor move is going to be illegal, since none of the notable move tutor moves are egg moves too.
But even so, what Gen V moves are going to be worth sacrificing that coverage? Snatch and Iron Tail come to mind (though technically they're gen 4 I think), but certainly not Superpower-- Absol is fragile enough as it is, thanks.
As a counterpoint, Absol is already so fragile it dies in one hit to most neutral STAB. Do you really care if it becomes more fragile?
That is a fair point with Knock Off - if you plan to run Play Rough, then Night Slash is your only stab option bar Sucker Punch. I think that Snatch is worthwhile for its ability to shut down Subbers and bulky boosters who would otherwise wall the living daylights out of Mega Absol. Things like Roost/DDance Dragonite and Milk Drink/Bulk Up Gogoat, as well as Gligar and SubGengar would all have a very good chance of just setting up on Absol unless you run Snatch.
This is true, but the fragility also comes in the form of the lowered Attack-- If Absol can't kill its targets because of its lowered attack, it's much more liable to be KO'd in response, particularly by something it SHOULD counter (IE, missing the Sucker Punch KO on Gengar and getting wrecked by FB/Dazzling Gleam). Swords Dance Absols should ALWAYS run Play Rough over SP for this reason, IMO. On trapper/wallbreaker sets, it's worth sacrificing for the possibility of running Snatch.
So far, we've got Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Swords Dance, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Snatch, Superpower, Night Slash and Knock Off as viable moves. Is there anything we should consider? Anything to potentially disable opponents or set up? I feel like something is missing.
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