So as far as I can tell everyone's talking about Mega Absol. While Mega Absol is obviously awesome, I feel like regular Absol has gained an extra niche this generation for a different reason: The critical hit changes. Crits now deal less bonus damage but have an increased probability, which means Absol holding a Scope Lens using a high crit move like Night Slash will score a critical 100% of the time! This gives it solid offensive power in general (it's like a Choice Band that lets you change moves) and lets you completely disregard defensive boosts on opponents (letting you do stuff like tear through slower Bulk Up/Drain Punch users expecting to soak a hit and then massacre you). I dunno how worth it it is, but 100% criticals on-demand with no setup time strikes me as worth investigating.
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Pokémon Absol
- Thread starter Adamant Zoroark
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so ur planning on using the version with 40 less speed and 20 less attack that doesn't have one of the best abilities in the game (magic bounce) strictly to rely on crits? Come on guy
Obviously Mega Absol will always be chosen before regular, but if the mega stone bans work like they should (Mega Stone bans) then regular Absol could see some actual usage in lower tiers while Mega Absol flies above to kill in higher tiers (wing pun intended)
Steel/Fairy should resist the combo, although Fire Blast deals with them.
Now, if a Fire/Fairy were to show up, then that set would be in trouble.
Mega Absol is amazing.
Once it finds that 1 turn to set-up a Swords Dance, it rips apart so many unprepared teams... Magic Bounce is just too good!
Once it finds that 1 turn to set-up a Swords Dance, it rips apart so many unprepared teams... Magic Bounce is just too good!
Well, there's the minor issue of Mega Absol preventing other Mega Evolution usages, and the lower Attack is irrelevant given that Scope Lens Absol effectively gets 1.5x. Plus there's the tiering argument Kairyu made. I'm not saying it'll be BETTER, but there might well be situations facing down things with multiple +def boosts of some kind or another (or an opposing team with Reflect up, or anything else criticals ignore) or situations where you prefer immediate power where Lens Absol is just what you need.
ive been looking at absol and one set I was considering is a crit build. using super luck and scope lens aswell as night slash/ psycho cut/slash it is a 50% crit rate. do you think this set could work at all? it wont be nearly as good this gen as in past gens but I think it could work. is this possible?
Guys, guys, guys, please, stop suggesting using anything but Mega Absol. Regular Absol is always inferior to its Mega counterpart; The whole "high/always crit" gimmick of Super Luck + Scope Lens just isn't worthwhile when you could be running Absolite and become faster (very important on a glass cannon like Absol) and get one of the best abilities in the game.
Stop suggesting this gimmick, please. It's really terrible.
To be fair, Absolite may not be permitted in RU so non-Absolite sets could be compared against each other to decide on different choices for RU Absol (whether Lens or Band or Scarf or LO or whatever is better for use on what teams, which moves to use, etc), or for any Absol set in basically the tier below where Absolite is permitted and below. In this case, such discussion could reasonably take place here since the new critical mechanics result in the new set.
I mean in OU, sure, since Absol without Absolite just doesn't have the speed to compete there and having a teamslot dedicated to only attacking guaranteed slow opponents (who, being in OU, will likely have enough defenses to avoid an OHKO and be able to either OHKO or status cripple in return, with the latter case being reflected by Magic Bounce in the case of Mega Absol) probably isn't worthwhile, so running the set in any tier where Absolite is permitted would probably (see below) count as a gimmick set since it either fails to achieve the OHKO it needs and then gets mangled, or fails to outspeed (Sucker Punch lacks a high crit rate, so no dice on that either).
This means it only outperforms Mega Absol on the first turn it spends in play if no status move is used (since Mega Absol fails to benefit from the increased Speed at this point), if Absol forces a switch (since everything but attacking power is irrelevant in this case, and the lens does cause you to hit harder), and against slower Defense boosters (Bulk Up/Curse/Cosmic Power, although the last one is usually used alongside Stored Power which Absol is immune to anyway) who lack a priority option to take Absol out with, and these are very rare. If such boosters saw an increase in usage the set might gain a niche role in countering them, but presumably they are currently obscure enough that countering them is seen as a gimmick use.
Similarly if other specific circumstances arose (e.g. a common Mega Absol counter worked by switching in with Intimidate to avoid damage and threaten, which a critical-based set would bypass, allowing it to function as an effective lure) then the set could potentially have merit, but I guess I'm willing to accept that in the general case Mega Absol will outperform Scope Lens Absol for the majority of applications, simply because of the sheer number of pokemon that occupy the speed gap between the two coupled with the number of pokemon with status moves Absol doesn't like. (Hopefully these paragraphs explain to anyone else suggesting scope lens in a higher tier like I originally was why it's not such a great idea).
However, tiers will probably exist where Absolite is banned but Absol itself is not, making a scope lens build a potentially interesting option (with the boosters it will be used to counter having lower Speed and/or lower offenses due to the decreased tier, and there being less disadvantage to running it over other sets: While the two currently listed in B/W RU have improved coverage, netting key KOs or slaying specific boosting/intimidating mons might make the scope lens worth considering). Thus I don't see any reason why Scope Lens Absol shouldn't be considered against other traditional existing Absol sets for tiers where Absolite is not permitted.
In summary: Very specific metagame conditions would be required to give Scope Lens Absol a look-in for any tier in which Absolite is permitted (specifically, it would have to score multiple key KOs on common opponents, effectively nail common Mega Absol switch-ins, or deal with common boosting pokemon), and while this isn't completely impossible it's unlikely and definitely not worth discussing until we see more of how the metagame shapes up and have a better idea of what, exactly, people will be switching in to a pre-mega-evolved Absol. However, comparison with existing Absol sets for lower tier application might still be an interesting discussion topic given the number of Intimidate switch-ins in the lower tiers, the higher prevalence of Curse boosters that lack Mach Punch, and the larger number of slower pokemon that have the defenses to cop a Life Orb hit in relative safety, but not a Scope Lens one. As such, I think at least a post from someone more experienced explaining why Scope Lens Absol will be inferior to even current Absol builds in too many situations to be worth considering when Mega Absol is not an option. Apologies for the initial suggestion of it as a competitor to Mega Absol, it's relatively clear that it'll only be able to do that in very specific metagame circumstances that are unlikely to arise.
Ok I highly doubt Absol will be tiered differently than Mega Absol, considering you have to use the base forme on your team in order to be able to to use its Mega evolution, and the base forme is what would be counted in the usage stats. Anyway, as I said, under no circumstances should such a gimmicky set like Scope Lens be used over Absol's far superior Mega evolution in any tier where both are available.
The only time I can see base Absol seeing use in any tier is if, say, Absol ends up in UU with Absolite allowed. Then Absolite gets banned from UU. Absol would probably drop a tier while Absolite would be permitted only in OU. This may not be the exact case, but it's the only scenario I can think of where you could use base Absol in RU or whatever but use Mega Absol in OU. Even then, why are we using Scope Lens (there are like 2 moves that you get 100% critical hit rate with, and one of them is not Sucker Punch) when you could use an overall better item like Life Orb? Answer: You don't. Life Orb is the superior option where Absolite is not available, because... Well, you get more power consistently, while Scope Lens is inconsistent except on... Two moves? I'll pass.
Now if I even see any more mentions of Scope Lens, I'm going to go batshit.
The only time I can see base Absol seeing use in any tier is if, say, Absol ends up in UU with Absolite allowed. Then Absolite gets banned from UU. Absol would probably drop a tier while Absolite would be permitted only in OU. This may not be the exact case, but it's the only scenario I can think of where you could use base Absol in RU or whatever but use Mega Absol in OU. Even then, why are we using Scope Lens (there are like 2 moves that you get 100% critical hit rate with, and one of them is not Sucker Punch) when you could use an overall better item like Life Orb? Answer: You don't. Life Orb is the superior option where Absolite is not available, because... Well, you get more power consistently, while Scope Lens is inconsistent except on... Two moves? I'll pass.
Now if I even see any more mentions of Scope Lens, I'm going to go batshit.
thank you jesus this is competitive battling and people are trying to build a set based entirely on luck, hence the name super luck. Even if it is somewhat viable do u really wanna be that guy who relies on crits to win. Sure ur increasing ur chances using some stupid A** item and the ability but for real thats lame af.
How is relying on a high crit rate any worse than say. . .Paraflinch Togekiss? There's a reason there's an evasion clause and nothing to ban these strategies. We're taking what Game Freak gave us and making it work. I am perfectly ok with being that guy cuz its not only somewhat viable, it works (against lower tier foes, ou walls still take it like nobody's business but I think we've established nobody's gonna use regular Absol in OU)
theres no difference. togekiss, paraflinch jirachi and klefki are all lame. Of course people will use them, but lets be honest it makes the game worse. Ur literally sitting behind ur screen praying for a flinch or for the other person to be paralyzed. good for u I'm glad u enjoy that
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It is still unproven if the critical hit chance has been increased. What has been proven is you can get 100% with a Farfetch'd holding a stick using slash (or slash equivalent). Their have been many rumors springing up about this, mainly due to Pokemon Amie's critical hit increase messing with calculations.
Unless their is new info? Please post a source. Otherwise I've been keeping up pretty well on the research thread.
Edit: Double checked the mechanics thread and found this: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokémon-battle-mechanics-research.3489239/page-24#post-4908311
I would not call it confirmed just yet though.
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Since this is the Absol page we should probably not talk about Togekiss and Jirachi, but it points out scope lens Absol's viability so I'll make my point, let you have your retort, and lets be done with it.
Paraflinch Togekiss and Jirachi (haven't tried Klefki, and don't really want to) work because even if they don't get the flinch they hit hard enough and have enough bulk to deal with most threats. The only thing I'll be praying for is in team preview I don't see a counter like an electric type.
Similarly, Absol was viable before the crit change (assuming it works like we've been discussing, I don't have a source and I'm too busy mass breeding to check it) because of his superb attack, this just makes him even more impressive as he can have an impressive bonus to his night slash/psycho cut and the only thing I'll pray for is no hard counters like Drapion (which can run battle armor) to hard counter him, and how is fearing a counter at all outside the norm?
My point is that its the luck factor that makes them spectacular, but even without, they're still great monsters, once we confirm the crit ratio I'll get some damage calcs and chances for OHKO and such, until then, I look forward to your retort.
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"Lets not talk ab togekiss and jirachi"...continues to write next paragraph on togekiss and jirachi. lets chill guy. Mega absol all day
Yo, don't diss Klefki. DS Klefki is godly, and Spikes Support Klefki is fantastic. Just because a bunch of the Klefki players want to hax spam doesn't mean that that's all it does. Same goes for Jirachi and Togekiss, they have uses (and good ones, mind you) besides hax spam.
That said, Crit Absol is stupid. You get the equivalent of a Choice Band on two attacks and no boost on Sucker Punch, which is basically the only thing that makes Absol relevent given that it has a Speed stat of 70, which is far too slow for a full out offensive mon, and it doesn't have the bulk nor the resistances to take any real hits. Just run Life Orb and abuse head games with Sucker Punch.
He wrote TWO sentences on Togekiss and Jirachi. You couldn't find a good answer to his post so you took two sentences to try to win the argument.
He's right, the reason you don't see people spamming dunsparce is because he has mediocre bulk. Jirachi and togekiss have good bulk to take hits even if they paraflinch(which got nerfed this gen) strategy does not work.
Human society is full or drugs, violence, and bullying, as much as we would hate to admit it if we ever met any other intelligent species. Similarly, hax is a part of Pokemon, where otherwise it would be akin to chess in the way that it would be roulette with prediction and type advantages. And seriously, its really funny to watch a great player lose to a noob due to hax once in a while.
and LucaroarkZ, the mods said in another thread that if a mega evo is broken in a tier where the original poke is not, then the mega stone would be banned instead of the original poke.
But I don't think the crit hax set is viable because absol is far to slow, it is not a definite chance, and sucker punch does not get boosted. It could be viable in a lower tier, but definitely not in OU.
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The only way regular Absol will ever win a match in OU is if its opponent laughs so hard he chooses the wrong attack (done that before, afterwards everyone else just laughed at me), it lacks the bulk or the speed to stand a chance. In its old home RU, 75 speed with investment is enough to out speed a lot of defensive threats. I'm not saying this set will be all powerful, but it is another option in a previously straight forward Pokemon that just might be worth a try
Im not going to keep arguing with the kid who just said he's done arguing and waste my time, it was just funny how he completely contradicted himself. Annnnnnyway..
Yes I went overboard with togekiss and jirachi as they are great pokemon with or without the hax due to great stats, typings etc. Regular Absol however does not fall into this category, and the potential niche it may now have with crits is really very minor, especially since Absol mostly relies on a priority move to account for its speed that loses power without life orb or w/e else. Its over, I am sorry to Kairyu_Gen1, lets move on.
Back to the Mega, I still don't understand why its attracted so many fangirls. Yes it can now sweep, but the inability to switch into an expected status move really hinders its ability, and 115 speed is still not enough to beat choice scarfers. As nice as this buff is, I don't think he'll be able to beat some of the more experienced players out there. Its good, but I don't see why I'd use my mega slot on a good pokemon when there are some great one's out there.
Hopefully Megastones will be banned in a manner similar to Lati@s and Soul Dew. Lati@s without it is allowed in OU, but with it is banned to ubers.
Did I not bring up Mega Stone banning in my post? Holy shit guys, fucking read. It's not that fucking hard.
You said IF that happens, I was just clarifying that it was already decided.
And cool it.
And I'm just saying that I knew the possibility of it happening, and considered it knowing that.
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