Resource ADV Beginner's Lounge - Rules/FAQ, Resources, Question & Answer

[Redless]

What's CursePert's niche over the other standard Swampert sets? The smogon dex entry only lists it as a footnote but I've seen it pop up a few times in competition and was wondering what teams benefit from it.

There are basically two cursepert sets you're likely to see. The first is offensive -- three attacks and curse as the last move with substantial specially offensive investment. In that case, the pert uses curse to exert pressure on mons it wouldn't be able to otherwise -- namely, Blissey and defensive Starmie. The later would normally be able to spin on Pert for free but it can't spin for free if it enters on Curse. It gives Pert a way to go toe to toe with Snorlax, too. The Swampert often ends up luring Skarmory attempting to Phaze it, which it can chunk with pump -- the same is true of defensive Zapdos. You'd probably pair this with a second rock resist.

The second is defensive. This one has rest, usually rest IB curse EQ, but sometimes they have slide instead of beam. This set would only be used on teams featuring Magneton, and it would only be used on slow variants of those teams, probably with their own Spikes. In this case, the pert has all the defensive utility of a regular pert -- checking DDers, Aerodactyl, and Metagross -- but it also gives an auxilary win condition against certain slow builds. For example, Skarm + Dol + Milo + Bliss + Dug has no way to disrupt cursepert once Skarmory goes down. Forretress + Tyranitar + Blissey + Pert is forced to trade their own Pert to take defensive cursepert out, which is a trade that Pert's teammates might be able to exploit. It can force certain variants of Snorlax and Metagross to blow up to take it out, too. And it does all this while being a Swampert meaning that the team its on will be far safer against some of the most dangerous threats in the game should the matchup be offensive. This set is usually paired with Wish or Aromatherapy.

 

[slamonBbq]

There are basically two cursepert sets you're likely to see. The first is offensive -- three attacks and curse as the last move with substantial specially offensive investment. In that case, the pert uses curse to exert pressure on mons it wouldn't be able to otherwise -- namely, Blissey and defensive Starmie. The later would normally be able to spin on Pert for free but it can't spin for free if it enters on Curse. It gives Pert a way to go toe to toe with Snorlax, too. The Swampert often ends up luring Skarmory attempting to Phaze it, which it can chunk with pump -- the same is true of defensive Zapdos. You'd probably pair this with a second rock resist.

The second is defensive. This one has rest, usually rest IB curse EQ, but sometimes they have slide instead of beam. This set would only be used on teams featuring Magneton, and it would only be used on slow variants of those teams, probably with their own Spikes. In this case, the pert has all the defensive utility of a regular pert -- checking DDers, Aerodactyl, and Metagross -- but it also gives an auxilary win condition against certain slow builds. For example, Skarm + Dol + Milo + Bliss + Dug has no way to disrupt cursepert once Skarmory goes down. Forretress + Tyranitar + Blissey + Pert is forced to trade their own Pert to take defensive cursepert out, which is a trade that Pert's teammates might be able to exploit. It can force certain variants of Snorlax and Metagross to blow up to take it out, too. And it does all this while being a Swampert meaning that the team its on will be far safer against some of the most dangerous threats in the game should the matchup be offensive. This set is usually paired with Wish or Aromatherapy.

Thanks, great explanation!

 

[Idomenee]

Hey guys, I've started ADV a month ago and I've been playing Star’s MixMence TSS since then but I keep losing to special offense, especially the ones with Suicune. Any advice to play that match-up ? For now, my gameplan against suicune is to bring forretress on suicune and try to boom on it, which is really not ideal, especially against sub variants, or chipping it down with blissey to force it to rest, so I can roar it with mence.

 

[ohko by scald]

Why does magneton run 40 spd EVs on the SD Pass by z0mog sample team?

the team

https://pokepast.es/252fbc75fa28087d

I checked ever special attacker that I could think of, and it doesn't seem to make a huge difference in the calcs? Sure it survives mixed metagross
hp-fire after spikes, but that can be achieved with fewer EVs?
Is there something that can't break sub with special investment?

 

[Redless]

Hey guys, I've started ADV a month ago and I've been playing Star’s MixMence TSS since then but I keep losing to special offense, especially the ones with Suicune. Any advice to play that match-up ? For now, my gameplan against suicune is to bring forretress on suicune and try to boom on it, which is really not ideal, especially against sub variants, or chipping it down with blissey to force it to rest, so I can roar it with mence.

A change you can make to have a better matchup into these teams is leading with Tyranitar. If you put Tyranitar in the lead slot, you can bluff a rock move in order to force Zapdos out and preemptively establish Sandstorm, giving special offense a harder time.

In terms of defusing Suicune itself, special offense teams usually have a faster Suicune without rest, which Blissey can comfortably handle by itself. Otherwise, Blissey can force any Suicune without Substitute to sleep, after which Salamence can PHaze it. If it runs Sleep Talk without Ice Beam, Salamence can also enter on it while it's awake. But your plan A should be to keep Blissey alive and Toss it down (Rachi Toxic works too).

A lot of the plan into Suicune for a team like this is to exploit it offensively. You have Aerodactyl, sand, and spikes, which work together to keep Suicune low and break teams reliant on Suicune as an answer to mixed and physical threats. By using these tools to press the offense after Suicune is asleep (or before Suicune has entered) you can pressure teams that use Suicune in leiu of a sturdier check like Swampert or Rest Zapdos.

 

[Idomenee]

A change you can make to have a better matchup into these teams is leading with Tyranitar. If you put Tyranitar in the lead slot, you can bluff a rock move in order to force Zapdos out and preemptively establish Sandstorm, giving special offense a harder time.

In terms of defusing Suicune itself, special offense teams usually have a faster Suicune without rest, which Blissey can comfortably handle by itself. Otherwise, Blissey can force any Suicune without Substitute to sleep, after which Salamence can PHaze it. If it runs Sleep Talk without Ice Beam, Salamence can also enter on it while it's awake. But your plan A should be to keep Blissey alive and Toss it down (Rachi Toxic works too).

A lot of the plan into Suicune for a team like this is to exploit it offensively. You have Aerodactyl, sand, and spikes, which work together to keep Suicune low and break teams reliant on Suicune as an answer to mixed and physical threats. By using these tools to press the offense after Suicune is asleep (or before Suicune has entered) you can pressure teams that use Suicune in leiu of a sturdier check like Swampert or Rest Zapdos.

Thanks, it helps a lot

 

[Sevenor3]

mcmeghan lunapass (pokepast.es)

how would this team ever break a blissey? whenever ive tried it just results in a really sad chain of nothing, trying to chip it with leech seed or pp stall its recovers, or alternatively pass a sub to jirachi just for nothing to happen since hp fighting doesnt hit blissey for half and the team doesnt have sand spikes or dugtrio. it was made by mcmeghan two years ago, so it isnt a bad team or anything, i just dont understand the matchup

 

[ohko by scald]

I played a lot of games with the SD Pass by z0mog sample team

Spoiler

https://pokepast.es/252fbc75fa28087d

recently, and I was wondering about some matchups that really got me stumped.

• Medicham feels impossible to switch into, and on lead, I often sac my Tar just so it doen't focus punch me. It's still managable tho
• Milotic feels impossible to break. Short of metagross boom, nothing can really handle it (mag gets 2h ko'd), and that's easily exploitable
• The fire types give me so much trouble. Charizard is honestly not that bad, but Moltres and Houndoom will often claim a ko when they hit the field. Technically, Aero can switch in, but that's very temporary and risking burn every time feels so bad

 

[vapicuno]

I played a lot of games with the SD Pass by z0mog sample team

Spoiler

https://pokepast.es/252fbc75fa28087d

recently, and I was wondering about some matchups that really got me stumped.

• Medicham feels impossible to switch into, and on lead, I often sac my Tar just so it doen't focus punch me. It's still managable tho
• Milotic feels impossible to break. Short of metagross boom, nothing can really handle it (mag gets 2h ko'd), and that's easily exploitable
• The fire types give me so much trouble. Charizard is honestly not that bad, but Moltres and Houndoom will often claim a ko when they hit the field. Technically, Aero can switch in, but that's very temporary and risking burn every time feels so bad

I think you're basically right. SD pass is not a consistent playstyle. The sample teams are there to give you a flavour of different styles, and are not necessarily a pick of the most consistent teams.

 

[ohko by scald]

mcmeghan lunapass (pokepast.es)

how would this team ever break a blissey? whenever ive tried it just results in a really sad chain of nothing, trying to chip it with leech seed or pp stall its recovers, or alternatively pass a sub to jirachi just for nothing to happen since hp fighting doesnt hit blissey for half and the team doesnt have sand spikes or dugtrio. it was made by mcmeghan two years ago, so it isnt a bad team or anything, i just dont understand the matchup

I could see passing cm to vaporeon to roar it out or pressuring it with toxic so that something else has to take the special hit.
Basically you'd have to force it out some way to attack the team behind it. Last blissey obviously folds to toxic, but all in all the matchup looks pretty horrendous.
Just because the team was made by a good player doesn't mean that it has to be good. Maybe it's supposed to punish opponents that refuse to use blissey? Maybe McMeghan is so good that he can consistently outplay blissey?
Either way, having such a crippling weakness to one of the best and most common pokemon in ADV kinda makes it hard to consistently win with this team

 

[vapicuno]

mcmeghan lunapass (pokepast.es)

how would this team ever break a blissey? whenever ive tried it just results in a really sad chain of nothing, trying to chip it with leech seed or pp stall its recovers, or alternatively pass a sub to jirachi just for nothing to happen since hp fighting doesnt hit blissey for half and the team doesnt have sand spikes or dugtrio. it was made by mcmeghan two years ago, so it isnt a bad team or anything, i just dont understand the matchup

I don't think blissey is really a big issue. In fact, Blissey is pretty good set up bait. The sequence that works is
1) if you need to pivot out of Blissey, send Celebi into Blissey and leech. If you played well you should have trapped Skarmory with Magneton earlier. Then the opponent would be switching to something like Ttar / aero / fires and you can BP to Vaporeon on the switch. You sub as they are forced out, drawing Blissey in again. Now, you can pass to Solrock and get a free CM.
2) an even better scenario is if you have BPed and Blissey comes in, and you know Blissey doesn't have a status move, you can go to Solrock directly and CM.

Once you have gotten a CM pass, Celebi will become a lot more threatening and things will flow more smoothly.

 

[NasirSenpai]

Starting to play in the tier after spending a LONG time reading/watching threads and vids as well as studying analyses and the such. I'm thoroughly enjoying myself. Definitely a lot easier to get the hang of compared to BW OU which is the other tier I'm trying to get into atm. Finding most initial success with TSS and Superman, vaporeon offense is fun as well but is more challenging. I've a bit nervous about trying both mag physical offense and dug special offense. Any advice or is it kind of just a matter of getting out there and gaining the experience?

 

[vapicuno]

Starting to play in the tier after spending a LONG time reading/watching threads and vids as well as studying analyses and the such. I'm thoroughly enjoying myself. Definitely a lot easier to get the hang of compared to BW OU which is the other tier I'm trying to get into atm. Finding most initial success with TSS and Superman, vaporeon offense is fun as well but is more challenging. I've a bit nervous about trying both mag physical offense and dug special offense. Any advice or is it kind of just a matter of getting out there and gaining the experience?

The main difference between these offenses and balance is that you have to get comfortable with trading damage instead of pivoting to take resisted damage. Stuff like sacrificing your mence/gyarados to tyranitar so that you can dd on it with the other dd bird, or staying in with +1 suicune vs zapdos so that you can chip it with an Ice Beam while eating Thunderbolt before pivoting out so that your back superrachi can KO with psychic later for example.

Have fun!

 

[hoyesdomingo]

Starting to play in the tier after spending a LONG time reading/watching threads and vids as well as studying analyses and the such. I'm thoroughly enjoying myself. Definitely a lot easier to get the hang of compared to BW OU which is the other tier I'm trying to get into atm. Finding most initial success with TSS and Superman, vaporeon offense is fun as well but is more challenging. I've a bit nervous about trying both mag physical offense and dug special offense. Any advice or is it kind of just a matter of getting out there and gaining the experience?

Adding onto Vapicuno's excellent advice. Both mag and dug offenses primarily rely on removing a key target to gain a major advantage with your physical / special threats respectively. What this also means, however, is that you're generally on a much shorter timer.

Take Vap's very own physical offense team from the sample teams. The premise of the team is simple: 3 DDers + band meta are able to go bezerk with Skarm removed. In practice, however, playing with such a team requires you to constantly be precise. For a simple example: standard Moltres with fire / grass / WOW / roar is absolutely nightmarish to this team. Celebi obviously can't switch into it, and nothing else on the team can really take a wisp. In order to not instantly lose a mon to molt, then, you have to play aggressive. Part of that is making trades like Vap touched on: saccing a +1 ddtar against pert to get off an HP grass, for instance, and going to bi but doubling immediately to the mag on Molt, enduring, and forcing in a special wall. In an ideal world, you can then go to Gyara / Mence and dd once mag goes down. Since pert is weakened, you can now hopefully break or sweet with their boosts.

This is obviously a super simplified example, but the key thing to note is that you're limting the opportunities of the molt user while creating your own opportunities. Offense teams in general are teched to break through defensive cores, but that often leaves them weaker to opposing offensive threats—aero against dug special offense is another example. In order to not constantly get put on the back foot until your checks are quickly warn down, offense needs to create its own opportunties by really being aggressive.

 

[vapicuno]

doubling immediately to the mag on Molt, enduring, and forcing in a special wall.

NasirSenpai I probably wouldnt do that since you would be wasting a perfectly good mag for emergency situations. Instead, leech the molt, subspam to chip molt and convince your opponent to click flamethrower (or roar if they have it), then go to mence or gyara depending on what can be saced vs what should be kept to sweep. The point of this sequence is to avoid will o wisp. This is probably the better way...

 

[R8]

Can the last pokemon on big 5 tss be literally anything or does it need to fulfill some conditions?

 

[hoyesdomingo]

Can the last pokemon on big 5 tss be literally anything or does it need to fulfill some conditions?

Generally, you want either a combination of either:
1) Something fast. Aero is quite common to clean up (esp. b/c it pairs well with spikes to wear down checks like swampert and tar), while also checking CMders, especially celebi. Other options include Zapdos (also appreciates spikes for bliss, bi, lax), Moltress (wisp accentuates damage, wears down blissey and cune). Starmie is also a great option, because it provides great coverage that allows you to pressure offensively while providing.

2) Spin. This is definitely a less common option, but no less valuable. Being able to clear spikes for tar and especially pert and bliss makes the latter two much more adept at walling. There's not that many options: forry is redundant for obvious reasons, so Starmie is generally preferred. Dol is generally also redundant w/Pert, stacking weaknesses while also not helping against special threats.

3) (Special) Spikes abuser. Gengar is already a terror w/WoW + taunt / boom on spikes teams, so accentuating that with another complimentary threat can be even more insane. All of the aforementioned mons are pretty great, but there's also the option to use more offensively-inclined mons:

-Jolt provides speed, allowing you to clean late-game especially against offense. It also emergency checks DDtar. Tbolt is really nice, as most ground types don't enjoying switching into it + grass / ice. Roar lets you rack up spikes chip against bliss, and BP keeps up momentum (Skarm can often switch in on the Flygons / perts, depending on your HP type).
-Charizard has the potential to rip through anything in the tier with the right support and coverage. Fire / grass / sub / focus punch if you're going super offensive, but FP often isn't even needed with proper spikes support for bliss and tar (and sub becomes less useful by extension). Dclaw is a great third to catch mence on the switch, and some people like double fire (blast / thrower + overheat). I would say pair it with gengar's moveset especially to break down each other's checks (bliss ofc, but also defensive cune)

I'll also add that mixmence has been used a couple of times as the last on TSS. It's admittedly less common nowadays, since zap (often paired with spikes of its own) stuffs momentum pretty hard.

 

[IllidanStr]

Hey everyone!

This is gonna be the best time to utilize this thread and I might gonna add some questions in the future. I recently got the hang of ADV and the surface level knowledge such as "TSS and common threats" and niche type scenario in which random set encounters on ladder that rely on gimmicks. The point being of my post is that I have recently reach my highest elo yet and I wanted to learn what are the pros and cons of using pursuit Ttar since I do encounter this set a lot in elo 1300+ and "MixTtar and BkcTar" are somewhat no longer present. For reference I am been using this Ttar set on my ladder journey in which prove quite effective at disrupting teams on turn "1-5" and I wanted to know more about pursuit Ttars Viability.

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ancient Power
- Brick Break

 

[ohko by scald]

Hey everyone!

This is gonna be the best time to utilize this thread and I might gonna add some questions in the future. I recently got the hang of ADV and the surface level knowledge such as "TSS and common threats" and niche type scenario in which random set encounters on ladder that rely on gimmicks. The point being of my post is that I have recently reach my highest elo yet and I wanted to learn what are the pros and cons of using pursuit Ttar since I do encounter this set a lot in elo 1300+ and "MixTtar and BkcTar" are somewhat no longer present. For reference I am been using this Ttar set on my ladder journey in which prove quite effective at disrupting teams on turn "1-5" and I wanted to know more about pursuit Ttars Viability.

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ancient Power
- Brick Break

Arguably the biggets reason to run pursuit Tar is removing Gengar to enable your teammates. Alongside Magneton, it makes mono normal attacking sets viable and, in my personal oppinion, pretty solid, given that both Metagross and Tar can often be overwhealmed and beaten by curse users. Aditionally, pursuit Tar makes boom a lot safer to click.
Pursuit Tar is also a decent absorber of will-o-wisp, since it doesn't care about the attack drop and doesn't need to stick around very long once Gengar has been eliminated. Another asset is its huge potential for customizability. It gets a shitton of special coverage, can be surprisingly annoying with protect and can even turn the tables on physical threats with counter.
Additionally, pursuit is useful for more than just Gengar. Once Dug is locked into aerial ace, it can safely be pursuited. Aero gets trapped in much the same way. While this doesn't ohko, it greatly limits the longevity of these mons.
All in all, pursuit Tar enables physical offense by trapping Gengar and inviting in physical walls in the early game, which it can then often hit with its choice of coverage.

As for the cons of runnig pursuit Tar, the main drawback is probably the fact that you're missing out on the power of physical sets. Once it has been revealed, pursuit Tar doesn't offer much in terms of breaking power. Because it doesn't tend to force out a lot once its coverage has been revealed, it struggles to come in consitsently. Using it requires good prediction to hit things on the switch when you get the chance.
Although pursuit Tar can check a lot from full health, (depending on the chosen coverage) it struggles to do so once it has been chipped.
Lastly, it tends to let in some dangerous mons, depending on the coverage. Skarm, Forrryand Metagross without fire, Mence and Flygon without ice and Gyarados or other waters without the hard to fit electric coverage. This generally tends to lose you momentum on teams that really don't want to.

 

[sumwun]

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ancient Power
- Brick Break

Why do you use ancient power over rock slide?

Arguably the biggets reason to run pursuit Tar is removing Gengar to enable your teammates. Alongside Magneton, it makes mono normal attacking sets viable and, in my personal oppinion, pretty solid, given that both Metagross and Tar can often be overwhealmed and beaten by curse users. Aditionally, pursuit Tar makes boom a lot safer to click.

Which Pokemon can viably run mono normal? I thought Snorlax was the only one.

 

[ohko by scald]

Why do you use ancient power over rock slide?

Which Pokemon can viably run mono normal? I thought Snorlax was the only one.

Firstly, I agree that rock slide is consistently better than ancient power. 15 more base power and 16pp instead of 8 is a pretty huge deal.
Obviously the appeal is the omni boost, which is pretty scarry, but I don't think it's worth sacrificing immediate and consistent power for a 10% chance on an 8pp move on a pokemon without defensive investment.
However, it's not like you're losing that much on a special set which usually has better things to click than a rock move, so this might aswell be personal preference.

Secondly,

this team

https://pokepast.es/da5d0c962b7f388e

features a mono normal Miltank. I don't bring this up because it's some obscure strategy, but because I genuinely think that this team and the Miltank set are amazing.
Still, mono normal is admittedly an edge case that I mainly brought up to make a point.
What I forgot to mention is that pokemon like Breloom and Hariyama like Gengar being gone since hp ghost is a hard fit on them.
Normal + Ground is also great coverage on pursuit + Mag teams.
Even without Mag, simply having focus punch can be enough to muscle through Skarmory.

 

[IllidanStr]

Why do you use ancient power over rock slide?

Hey sumwun from sumwere!

This move "Ancient power" is really out of place but the reasoning behind this is that weeks prior I was tweaking this Ttar to do somewhat a decent and stable amount of damage without worrying about accuracy. Initially I swapped out Fireblast to Flamethrower and from Rockslide to Ancient Power. I encountered a fair amount of games that Flamethrower is not much capable of a fire power needed in certain scenarios. Instead swapped it again to Fireblast which is really consistent on OHKOing mons right away and I am still fairly quite confuse with Ancient Power if it needs to be swap as well but I decided to stick with it instead due to the decent amount of damage dealt without the concern of having accuracy drawbacks and I always sacked Ttar after the job is done such as setting Sandstorm OHKOing certain match ups. Lastly I dont really rely much on the boost which is RNG reliant but when it proc it it kinda automatically KO everything unless it been walled hard.

 

[Redless]

Hey everyone!

This is gonna be the best time to utilize this thread and I might gonna add some questions in the future. I recently got the hang of ADV and the surface level knowledge such as "TSS and common threats" and niche type scenario in which random set encounters on ladder that rely on gimmicks. The point being of my post is that I have recently reach my highest elo yet and I wanted to learn what are the pros and cons of using pursuit Ttar since I do encounter this set a lot in elo 1300+ and "MixTtar and BkcTar" are somewhat no longer present. For reference I am been using this Ttar set on my ladder journey in which prove quite effective at disrupting teams on turn "1-5" and I wanted to know more about pursuit Ttars Viability.

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ancient Power
- Brick Break

Hey there,

I recently made this video going over applications of suittar outside of trapping Gengar, which you might find useful:

 

[gnore]

Shiftry with Leech Seed + Quick Attack is legal in the teambuilder. I can't figure out how this is possible in Gen 3.
Seedot is the only Grass Group that can learn Quick Attack & the only Field Group that can learn Leech Seed.
Can Leech Seed be inherited from a mass outbreak mother & a Quick Attack father?

 

[OMNIWEEB]

Shiftry with Leech Seed + Quick Attack is legal in the teambuilder. I can't figure out how this is possible in Gen 3.
Seedot is the only Grass Group that can learn Quick Attack & the only Field Group that can learn Leech Seed.
Can Leech Seed be inherited from a mass outbreak mother & a Quick Attack father?

It likely inherited these moves from the father Treecko line (Quick Attack lvl up move and Leech Seed egg move).
(I forgot to check the Treecko line's Egg Group lol)