OU ADV OU Viability Ranking

[Oxypad]

Click it. ^
Swampert is very good mixed attacker, very good Mono-attacker, and very good Endeavor-er. Immunity to Electric is just wow. Nothing else in A or S rank has that. (Celebi resists, meh.) Defensively it still smacks Zapdos and everything pretty solidly. Torrent HPump, ya know? It deserves third best ADV mon. So what about the 4x grass weak?

Blissey below Zapdos. They both do things no other pokes can. But Zapdos is just way more multi-dimensional with its EVs and speed possibilities, spikes immunity, and variety that is better than Blissey. Blissey has variety, but it is not very "efficient" variety. Like Sing or Counter? Psssh.

Splitting hairs but Zapdos is thus 4th and Blissey is 5th. Both still top 5 so they are golden. I hate Blissey but it is great to see it so clearly known as the best Normal type of the tier.

I have catapulted Swampert above Gengar and thus Gengar is at bottom of A tier. The Jack of All Trades, but its Explosion is weak, so better make that end of turn mechanic count! (Dugtrio obviously, but any other strategy that people have come up with?) Gengar is not 'amazing' against any of the other mons above it one-on-one, save for when it is running Giga Drain, and then it just feels like a weird mon, honestly. Will-o-wisp better hit when you need it to.

Splitting hairs with the B tier swapping Salamence and Dugtrio (rise) with Celebi and Suicune (fall). They are easier to use offensively and build teams with. I guess if you are more defensive-minded or balance minded you can keep the placements as they are. Celebi and Suicune are easier to play defensively, although hurt by Spikes and Sand is not appealing to me. And who wants to play defensively? What I really noticed was Salamence being that low. It is a fantastic lead.

 

[Siglut]

Just nitpicking, but I don't think swampert's electric immunity is a huge bonus for it at all. Only really helps vs certain rachi because all zapdos have hp grass or toxic. It's ok to pivot pert so something like snorlax only takes hp grass instead of tbolt, but if you do that every time you're going to get caught, plus you're taking spikes on pert, etc.

I think you're overrating dugtrio and certainly salamence: salamence's offensive sets have always left a lot to be desired for me (mixmence doesn't hit very hard without spikes, dd requires a ton of support and setup. CB is the best set imo but it almost always needs mag or a spinner and can be pivoted around without too much pain.) I think it's arguable that suicune is not as good as those two, but celebi surely has them both beat. IMO celebi should also have jirachi beat, though. As you say, rating cele/cune higher implies a more defensive mindset, while salamence and dugtrio are for the most part offensive mons. The thing that I think should probably bump mence up a bit on th VR is the prominence of fighting types, as not being ohko'd by any move of medicham's is a pretty good trait currently. However, celebi is such a sturdy check to electrics and waters that I think it should be rated even higher than its current position.

On the a-rank mons, I agree with you that pert #3 makes sense, although I'd say that zapdos is currently the second-best mon in the tier, and that skarm should probably be in that A-tier somewhere (I'd put it interchangeable with pert for spots 3 and 4) but that's probably just due to my own preference for spikes teams and inability to build anything usable at the moment that doesn't have a skarmory. I've been appreciating defensive pert more and more recently.

Anyway I'm on the toilet right now and I wanted to write this just to nitpick that one thing you said and it expanded into some metagame thoughts but I'm just going to post this. I think dugtrio is not so good in the metagame and shouldn't be used unless it is a necessary slot (cmspam, rain) because there is almost always something else that goes in that teamslot better. (Dug is either a. A breaker that is necessary on your team or b. A panic revenge-kill option that you wouldn't have to have if you replaced it with something defensively solid) Fitting that it's right by snorlax, which I think is next to unusable.

 

[snackfood]

Would definitely agree with Zapdos being the second-best mon in the tier atm. Modest zapdos is such a monster and it just baton passes right out of its counters. I feel like it just wins games more frequently than almost any other pokemon in the tier.

Speaking of zapdos and it's would be counters, snorlax is just awful. The moment that a spike gets put down it can barely check the special attackers that it is supposed to anymore. Not to mention that it lets metagross ttar and gengar in for free without prediction mindgames (and lots of ttar and meta run lum berry for possible para anyway). In my mind aero and forretress are better, and maybe starmie too. At the very least those mons matchup well against certain playstyles. Snorlax just doesn't really do well into anything. Against cm spam it either gets overwhelmed or duggy trapped, against tss skarm + gengar just invalidates it, and against physical offense it allows ttar and meta in so easily. When you use a snorlax it feels like you have to get each turn you have it out on the field perfect, or else its a total waste.

Anyways, move snorlax down to c1 below aero forre and starmie. It's pretty bad.

 

[airports]

'mean pass' (mean look utilised in conjunction with baton pass) needs to be banned. mean look traps the target (prevents it from switching out) on the condition that the user does not switch out first. baton pass circumvents the one-to-one nature of the trap established by mean look, preventing the target of mean look from switching out on the condition that the recipient of baton pass does not switch out first, that is, exporting the trap from the pokemon that used mean look to the recipient of baton pass, as though that recipient itself used mean look. the strategy - trapping with mean look and baton passing to a teammate that will either (a) take the trapped pokemon as set-up fodder, setting up to +6 and sweeping the entirety of the opposing team (e.g. taunt, dd tyranitar) ; or, (b) remove the trapped pokemon (e.g. perish song celebi) - is both non-interactive and overpowered.

 

[cookie]

'mean pass' (mean look utilised in conjunction with baton pass) needs to be banned. mean look traps the target (prevents it from switching out) on the condition that the user does not switch out first. baton pass circumvents the one-to-one nature of the trap established by mean look, preventing the target of mean look from switching out on the condition that the recipient of baton pass does not switch out first, that is, exporting the trap from the pokemon that used mean look to the recipient of baton pass, as though that recipient itself used mean look. the strategy - trapping with mean look and baton passing to a teammate that will either (a) take the trapped pokemon as set-up fodder, setting up to +6 and sweeping the entirety of the opposing team (e.g. taunt, dd tyranitar) ; or, (b) remove the trapped pokemon (e.g. perish song celebi) - is both non-interactive and overpowered.

just use roar

there's a reason mean look pass was known since 2004 (sometimes in conjunction with taunt) and has never been an issue since

 

[Heika]

just use roar

there's a reason mean look pass was known since 2004 (sometimes in conjunction with taunt) and has never been an issue since

Yup, the same way full pass was known since 2004 and has never been an issue. Ow8.

More seriously tho, can we agree the "it's been known since X and wasn't an issue" isn't an arguement, like ever? Meta evolves, people inovate, and there wouldn't be anything wild for someone to find a new way to abuse mean pass in an unhealthy manner. If you still follow the adv meta you should know that much, if you don't follow it maybe refraining from posting in such an obnoxious way might be an idea.

Now, on the matter, I don't think mean pass is that much of a threat in it's curently feasability because thebaton pass restrition makes it so you can't really afford mean pass +defensive set up as well as before, imo. So you don't even a roar user as much since, imo, a "hard hitter", to put it simply, is a valid way of punishing such strategies. Booming too in a way helps dealing with it, although it doesn't necessarly works in the long run.

 

[cookie]

More seriously tho, can we agree the "it's been known since X and wasn't an issue" isn't an arguement, like ever? Meta evolves, people inovate, and there wouldn't be anything wild for someone to find a new way to abuse mean pass in an unhealthy manner. If you still follow the adv meta you should know that much, if you don't follow it maybe refraining from posting in such an obnoxious way might be an idea.

airports suggested that the way to break teams is to pass to a sweeper. There has been zero change in what sweepers are actually available since 2004, when all 386 pokemon were introduced. Perishpass too. The nature of sweepers (especially at +6) is that they represent a global endgame scenario, irrespective of your opponent's team. That's not something a metagame can adapt to, which is kind of airport's point but also an indication that if that's a problem now, it was a problem back then. And it wasn't, so it isn't now.

Plus, Mean Look + Baton Pass has been around since 2004. I agree in principle that the argument doesn't hold, but in this case it was one of the first things that came out of the FRLG metagame, and players quickly adapted to it. Now, people might be caught off-guard in 2020 because it's fallen out of use but that is absolutely not the same as something being broken. It really is that simple to shut down Umbreon with Roar/Whirlwind. I'm not gonna comment on the taunt variants (because that's not what's being discussed here, and at first glance that might be a bit more of a problem), but off the top of my head Suicune/Swampert/Zapdos will stop Umbreon all day. Skarmory less so because you can trap it with Magneton (especially if you have baton pass, lol).

Kind of ironic of you to use snark to tell someone else to be less snarky. You can't have your cake and eat it buddy.

 

[airports]

umbreon @ mean look, baton pass, taunt, charm. skarmory switches in, as umbreon uses mean look. skarmory then attempts to roar, as umbreon uses taunt, necessarily moving first as roar is a negative priority move. umbreon baton passes to taunt, dd tyranitar, which proceeds to set up on the stranded skarmory, getting to +6 and presumably sweeping the opposing team. a reasonable discussion can be had about other phasers. i regard mean pass as a meritless, uncompetitive strategy that destroys common tss teams. and perhaps you did play adv in 2004, cookie. happy new year.

 

[cookie]

umbreon @ mean look, baton pass, taunt, charm. skarmory switches in, as umbreon uses mean look. skarmory then attempts to roar, as umbreon uses taunt, necessarily moving first as roar is a negative priority move. umbreon baton passes to taunt, dd tyranitar, which proceeds to set up on the stranded skarmory, getting to +6 and presumably sweeping the opposing team. a reasonable discussion can be had about other phasers. i regard mean pass as a meritless, uncompetitive strategy that destroys common tss teams. and perhaps you did play adv in 2004, cookie. happy new year.

you didn't read the part where i said "not including taunt variants" - it's also something you did not mention in your original post. I guess the other difference between 2004 and now is that back then people used to read the words on their screen before hitting reply.

 

[cookie]

why would a discussion on mean pass not include cases where the mean passer has taunt?

because _that's the exact scenario you put forward_ ? Taunt is no more implicit than baton pass is in the context of mean look umbreon, yet you included it. I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just critiquing the claim of the brokenness of the particular strategy laid out here.

 

[Arai]

Please tone down the aggressiveness and avoid insulting other users when making a post in this thread or anywhere else. If it's not necessary in your post there's no reason to include it.

 

[Dizno]

I dont get the whole "It has never been an issue" stuff. What is the point of raising an issue if it gets met with that kind of rhetoric.

The last 2 metagame bans that the tier has conducted have absolutely nothing to do with how broken the strategy in question was, so it shouldn't be inconceivable that something can get banned for other reasons.

The issue Airports raises is a legitimate one. Mean look, taunt, charm, baton pass umbreon is a cheesy strategy that has no competitive merit. Its existence in the tier can be boiled down to a relatively narrow context in which the player facing it has 2 turns to avoid losing to DD Taunt Tar or CM Rest Suicune.

I think Airports raises an important question and we ought to encourage a healthy discussion rather than an embittered feud. Let's stop protesting other peoples protests and instead, create an environment where we refine the tier for the better.
I think more refinement is needed

 

[Siglut]

I don't think meanpass needs a ban. Umbreon is the only poke that can accomplish this setup and it has less than no offensive presence, and the set that has been described in this thread doesn't have any way to recover, meaning it will only ever get a maximum of one trap per game. This is something that can be prepped for in the builder in my opinion without sacrificing much. If your initial switchin to an umbreon is your tauntless skarmory, then you accept the risk of getting trapped.
The solution to this is instead of going to a very passive mon against a mon notorious for using this cheese strategy, go to an offensive one instead. Umbreon is not especially threatening unless it's matched up against certain stalls, and in my mind it's fine to allow that. Some mons just have good matchups vs certain archetypes, and obviously we aren't going to ban kingdra or moltres because they destroy offense. This argument was one of the main ones that people used to try to keep the prickler around, but the difference is that it actually works here, between umbreon's lack of an offensive presence, sand vulnerability, lack of moveslots, and general inability to cause any damage.
Not to say that the tier can't use any more revision, but if any cheese strat should get banned at this point I think it ought to be mr. mime.
Before that, even, I think we should look into banning sleep. As cool as breloom is, sleep is pretty stupid. Sorry for the slight derailment of the discussion, but I think umbreon is more of a super-niche zokuru counterpick than a 'viable' cheese strat.

 

[Lukee]

Hello, so with all this Umbreon mean pass discussion, I would like to share my input on the matter, I believe that the problem is none other than the mime.
Mean pass teams often aren't an issue for most teams, because you can fit roar. However, the existence of Mr. Mime forces mean pass counterplay to be much more restricted. If they don't have Mr. Mime, Umbreon can be phased out by roar, same thing with other baton pass centric teams. But if they do have Mr. Mime, roar is not an option. This causes many games to become 50/50's, especially vs non mean pass chains. both mean pass and regular pass teams are considered cheesy strategies by many in the adv community and the existence of Mr. Mime makes these teams even more skilless. Mr. Mime also has access to a variety of moves such as taunt, encore, barrier, and calm mind that allow it to be far from deadweight on baton pass chains. While mean pass teams may be an issue, I believe banning Mr. Mime would be the first step before deciding if mean pass is banworthy. Thank you for reading

 

[Oxypad]

Umbreon trapping is nothing new. I'm surprised it is getting brought up. If you are experienced you will know how to handle it. The standard 6 team of Tar/Bliss/Skarm/Pert/Starmie/Gengar (no Taunt) would actually kind of be the only majorly viable team off the top of my head I wish had a TrapPass Umbreon to use against. Just to give it some fuss. (Or stalls like was mentioned. Meh.)

Just have to play carefully. Against it, just go to an Exploder, a Heracross/Medicham or other strong CB'er (might be somewhat risky but this is decently fine), a BP'er of your own (like a Celebi/Zapdos? A subpar option but can get you out of a jam potentially later), or something faster with Taunt most likely. So yeah, if Gengar has Taunt in the aforementioned team, then trap-pass Umbreon just won't work anyway!

Less likely options a team might have would be perhaps a Haze user (lol, for complete BP chains) and obviously Roar/Whirlwind but that is only counterplay if you bait the Umbreon-user to not want to Taunt (Hariyama and Tyranitar, prior to its set being revealed, are threatening in this regard).

Funny thing is ...this thread made me fire up my browsers and start a PS! battle with myself to make sure Mental Herb doesn't stop Taunt from working in ADV. Confirmed. Cuz man I really do think Mental Herb Umbreon could be a serious thing to worry about if that were the case. Easy setup against Skarms and Gengars then -- once they are Mean Looked as they come in.

 

[vapicuno]

I really don't like the condescending tone of some of these responses. What is the point of a forum if not to discuss something that is of a legitimate concern, especially to someone who I can attest has been actively playing the metagame on ladder and is familiar and good with it? This is exactly the kind of behavior that keeps people away from picking up a meta and participating in the community, and it should absolutely be condemned.

I don't think it's that straightforward that a good player will necessarily know how not to get cheesed by meanpass. I'm just assuming the point is about being cheesed (uncompetitive, takes decision-making out of hands of players, or unhealthy, requiring restrictive prep to beat convincingly) rather than about it being too good. It's certainly difficult to make a good Umbreon team, but I suspect that it's not too hard to make an Umbreon team that ignores some threats to matchup-fish or hax-fish for the lack of crits and obtain a tournament win.

Consider that most TSS teams (the most prevalent archetype) usually work on a skeleton of Tyranitar + Spikes + Fast offense (Zapdos/Moltres/Aerodactyl/Starmie/Gengar/Salamence) + Glue (Swampert/Metagross/Flygon) + Special Wall (Blissey/Celebi/Jirachi/Jolteon) + Spikes support / Secondary fast offense (Gengar/Dugtrio/Magneton/Spinners/fast offense). We may say "bring something offensive" into Taunt Umbreon, but that really refers more to bulky offense (Snorlax, Metagross, Tyranitar) and even then it's not guaranteed to work due to Charm or the presence of a boom lure. Fast offense without Roar is likely going to be set up on by Suicune or picked apart by something bulkier.

While one may say Taunt Gengar easily stops Umbreon, I think the recent exploratory shift away from Gengar is a positive direction the metagame has taken because people have been finding ways to synergize a large set of mons for wallbreaking on TSS without relying on Gengar to maintain Spikes. Another question is - if someone brings out Umbreon in a tour game, can you tell if it's a meanpass Umbreon? Maybe. But do you have the guts to send Gengar in to Taunt it and accept the risk of getting Pursuited and looking like the biggest fool on the planet? I don't know.

About why it hasn't been a problem in 2004 and beyond, I think there are several reasons, but I will list just one: I think until we see Umbreon cheese out a tour game, discussing this ban would have a more significant impact on ladder players than tour players. The ladder experience has been less considered when it comes to making decisions on bans, but the ease of using a cheese team while hiding behind an alt and having almost nothing to lose from losing a game while frustrating your opponent is not something tournament players worry about. In fact, in 2004, when ADV was the current gen, we just challenged each other on Netbattle, and if we knew someone liked to cheese we just rejected their challenges.

Finally, as much as this sounds like theory, I am not talking about Umbreon based on speculations. I've tested it out on ladder and convinced myself it's worth thinking about whether or not it's uncompetitive. In my ladder runs for Ninjask, Sand Veil, and MeanPass Umbreon, I've received the most hate with Umbreon. Even if we cannot come up as of yet with convincing reasons to defend an Umbreon ban, we should at least discuss it if it makes a significant portion of the community unhappy. If we play a game to have fun, and we're not having fun, that's a reason to take a step back and think.

 

[lilyhollow]

This is exactly the kind of behavior that keeps people away from picking up a meta and participating in the community, and it should absolutely be condemned.

I'm probably only speaking for myself here, but I can say that the reason I don't participate in competitive gen 3 is that people will just come up with new things they want to ban every 6 months or so. It's like there's no escaping it in this community. Like a yearish ago I was ready to sit down and learn how to get good at this gen because I was trash back in rsbot/netbattle days and it didn't sit right with me and it's my favorite gen, but it became clear that if you 'play a certain way' you're just going to make people mad and go post online about banning stuff or whatever. It is very demotivating; I feel like we would just laugh at people like that in the 2000s, but it's like the main type of person now.

 

[airports]

regardless of whether meanpass should be banned, does sovereignty of the tier belong to those who play it or those for whom it is a memory of their childhood? to be clear, anybody should be able to voice an opinion, and have that opinion judged solely on its merits, apart from that person's standing in the community; but it does seem as though some older users are speaking out of a possessiveness not grounded in any particular competence, rather the fact that they played the tier well over a decade ago. regarding "I feel like we would just laugh at people like that in the 2000s", what an asinine thing to say.

 

[lilyhollow]

I'm not speaking as a 'veteran' or whatever, I'm speaking as someone who was recently very interested in joining your scene. I'm not saying you shouldn't ban Umbreon or whatever it is you want to do; my whole point is that I've essentially been driven out of the scene, so yeah, I don't think I 'get' to have an opinion on that. Ban whatever you like, go ham with it imo. I'm purely speaking to vapicuno's point about "driving community members away." The constant complaining drove me away, maybe that's applicable to others and maybe it's not. Just thought it was worth mentioning since the topic was brought up

 

[thelinearcurve]

Shame to hear that lilyhollow.

I can fairly confidently say that most of us are pretty welcoming to new comers; it's always interesting to see a fresh take on the metagame. However, in any community, there are going to be trolls and toxic people, even on the ADV Showdown Ladder there are people who send abusive messages when things don't go their way.

If you're looking to get into the tier, I would recommend:
- checking out BKC's youtube channel, as well as McMeghan and Callous Narrates. In ADV we are blessed with high quality video content from elite players.
- checking out various publicly available file shares on Smogon (Vapicuno, UD, Zom0g, Sadlysius, foggi, Golden Sun etc.) have all shared excellent stuff
- hop on ADV ladder! We are fairly active and once you get past 1300ish elo matches get very combative
- join ADV individual tours, they are a great test of where you stand. Callous does a great job of organising old-gen tours on Pokemon Perfect
- find a positive community where you can ask questions / talk with similarly passionate people (idk about others but we have an ADV Ladder discord)

I hope that a petty squabble doesn't turn you away from the best tier ever. Feel free to contact me on my Smogon wall.

p.s. with regards to changes in the tier - I'm not opinionated enough in bureaucracy to say what I think is right or wrong. However the overall process seems to be when a few leading players of the community identify what they think is a problem, it gets discussed, then Suspect Tested. It's never going to please everybody, but it seems that it caters for what the majority want. It seems mostly fair, even though there are weak points along the way.

 

[snackfood]

I think the reason that people ask for things to be banned is that the main source of ADV OU play is the ladder. Not enough tournaments happen to have a good source of gameplay outside of the ladder. And when a large amount of the ladder is filled with cheese, whether it be that marowak team, traditional bp chain, or umbreon, it can get very frustrating for those who want a more competitive experience. thelinearcurve is definitely right that the ladder gets better past 1300 ELOish, but there are still a large number of people into the 1400s and even a couple in the 1500s who use pretty much exclusively some form of bp or other non-traditional strat. People just have different definitions of fun, and when there isn't a place to go (like tournaments) to avoid cheese, facing it 50% of your games can get very frustrating. Just my 2 cents

 

[Lukee]

So I have a nomination for the current vr that is as follows.
UR -> E
So I believe gardevoir deserves a slot in E tier for a variety of reasons. Its excellent movepool allows it a level on unpredictability few other Pokemon have and as a result it can easily switch moves or evs to fit its team best. However garde's access to trace is the main reason to use it. While it is often compared to p2 because of this garde has many advantages that p2 does not. The first of these being offensive pressure, while p2 is often setup fodder or can't do much vs fat, garde has 125 spa at its disposal and its fantastic movepool allows it bolt beam or fire grass coverage. Now garde may lack phys def and hp but with investment and will o wisp, it not only reverse traps dugtrio but also cripples physical attackers. Garde can also run more offensive sets due to trace allowing it to check/counter the mons it needs to without much defensive investment but it loses the dug reverse trap in the process. Gardevoir's excellent base 80 speed tier also allows it to outrun many prominent walls and physical attackers when invested in speed. Gardevoir also has one other trait worth noting over p2, unlike p2 it actually reverse traps magneton. (if you want to reverse trap magneton run fire punch ofc). For reasons stated above, I believe gardevoir deserves a spot on the vr. Thank you for reading.

 

[mael]

if u want to trap duggy the best way is either salac or icy wind. it also has access to taunt which is big. if you use like taunt dbond sometimes you can get another surprise kill.

i agree that gardevoir has some viability for teams that can't afford p2 giving blissey the freeest soft boiled or for teams that like to maintain a more offensive approach. i used it on hera / ttar / metagross / aero / magneton type of builds and it always did it's job quite well, getting the dug trap and if not that spreading wow or getting dbond trades. i tried several sets and found ironically that icy wind, taunt, dbond, wow works the best. u trap dug then u either slow a mon down for ur cbers to get a kill or play for the dbond. prevent recovery with taunt and force the attack to dbond. spreading wow for mons that cannot instantly ohko u. keep in mind if lets say bliss comes in after dug trade and u dbond and they click softboiled. they cannot even switch out after.

 

[McMeghan]

I've used Gard quite extensively recently for the BL Ladder challenge and I entirely agree with mael. Beside trapping Dug with Icy Wind, WoW/Taunt/Dbond was the best combination of moves to further disrupt the game. I've tried Memento but the other 4 moves are actually quite consistent. Keep in mind vapicuno had reasonnable success with Memento Screens + set-up sweeper but that's a very niche strat.

Gardevoir @ Salac Berry
Ability: Trace
EVs: 104 HP / 168 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Icy Wind

IIRC, the defensive benchmark was tanking Dug EQ after two spikes and two turns of Sand. You need 0 Spa to 2KO back with Icy Wind. Salac would allow it to act as a "revenge killer" by giving it a fast WoW/DBond with sand and spikes chip. I'd only recommend this in super offensive teams obviously.

Two replays where it worked outside of trapping by keeping the offensive momentum on my side:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1178680502-2y9m4b48682ybxnf0lx4ffxaipozdcopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1179103497-5lz3zih8o771pzkx1hqol73gj3c9kgkpw

There is also merit in the fact Gard could act like a Magneton trapper as well with Fire Punch, but can't really comment on that because mine was solely designed to kill Dug.

However, I really doubt many people will rank it in the next update because nobody is really using it both on the ladder and in tours.

 

[Theasiancp3]

The fact that Camerupt isn't at the very least E tier is an absolute joke.

Hilarious that back in 2014-2016, people were considering Camerupt as a B/C tier pokemon and now it's somehow F tier below BLAZIKEN. Tells me that the bottom of this tier list is a joke.

I've used Camerupt for over 1500 games and have reached 1600 ELO while beating plenty of 1650+ ELO people in the past. The fact that it's not taken seriously is hilarious.

Explosion, ability to switch onto Gengar, takes neutral damage from BOTH HP's (ice and grass), combination of Earthquake/FB, etc.

The fact that it's below something like Blaziken is even more of a joke.