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Tournaments ADVLTL II - Format Discussion

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goldmason

goldmason

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RoA & Tour Head
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Art by KaenSoul
Host team: goldmason Regiboob and idk maybe you? :D

Hello hello, time to talk about ADVLTL this year!!

Last year's format:

6 teams, 10 slots, maximum of 15 players (because of the money prize)

ADV Ubers
ADV UUBL
ADV UU
ADV RU
ADV NU
ADV PU
ADV ZU
ADV LC
ADV DOU (Bo3)
Orre Colosseum (Bo3)

Player signups due July 19th, managers a week prior.


This year it is unlikely to have a money prize again; there might be a reaction prize. Hosting team at large has no specific ideas for format changes. Open to most changes but please make your points saliently without bashing tiers needlessly.​
 
Zpanther said:
Randbats and/or draft would both be interesting. We don’t really need two doubles formats imo
Click to expand...

I think ORRE and Doubles should be kept because they are both different formats, but if we were to remove one I would probably say ORRE.

Another option would be removing UUBL depending on how popular it was/is.

I agree about adding random battles BO3 though to replace one of these slots.
 
Zac said:
Add draft, keep doubles, dont remove uubl
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this would be ideal for me but then we end up with 11 slots, and i don’t think moving to 12 slots is a good idea for this tour because of the limited player pool.

i think draft should be tried it has a very large playerbase and a lot of work has been put into the draft board

don’t think we have room for randbats and there’s already 2 randbats teamtours where adv rands gets played

i think the most fair option is to axe one of ZU/PU/NU/RU/UU/Ubers for 1 year, and bring whatever is removed back in the next edition on a rotating basis. pretty much all of these tiers now have 2-3 team tours in their own subforum where pretty much anyone who is motivated can play it in a team tour plus advpl

doubles and orre are both not in advpl so i dont think either should be cut as long as the signup numbers are similar to last year.
 
I'll throw in $1k prize to add a second UUBL slot.

2 slots? Kidding, aha. ...unless?? No, 2 slots for one tier would be crazy haha. ....unless?!

Anyways, UUBL is a popular tier that many find fun. Even just in the last month we've had like 5 more people join and actively play/discuss the tier on top of everyone else. Will have absolutely zero problem filling team slots with quality, self sufficient players, even if there were 2 slots ($1000 make it happen..?)

Because UUBL is not really played as a multigen tier, after ADVPL excluded it this is the only team tour that BL can have, as there are no BLPL or BLWC or anything like that. So also being excluded here would kinda suck. (Although I'm not tied up to orre, consider this also an argument for orre. I wouldn't recommend knocking either of these for draft specifically, because while draft is immensely popular and I love it, if you want to play in an adv draft tournament, there's certainly no shortage of places you can do so)

Nobody has said this yet, but when asked to elaborate on excluding BL it's often said, so I'm pre-emptively addressing this:
"BL is not an actual tier."
Ok, and?
That's not the fault of the tier's playability, interest, or anybody reading this. Gen 3 just happens to be one of two gens clinging to archaic dataless tiering. Cutting out the biggest Adv Lower Tier in an Adv Lower Tier Tour based on that alone seems silly. Let the people play with the 30some Pokemon!
 
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as someone who has played and tested orre after being responsible for a slot in altpl: please make orre bo5 if at all possible, games in orre are so often decided by one or two critical turns that a little bit of luck at the right time can completely upend the game. i understand that risk management is an inherent factor of the game, but i feel that in this scenario it genuinely does make orre less competitive

cc Akiak
 
10 slots felt like a good state for the tour. Orre felt like an "experimental slot" of sorts that had its time and didn't really establish itself as a tier people were especially interested to watch or play, as well as standing out as the only VGC style format of the tour with all the foibles that comes with. This year there's some excitement at the prospect of including Draft. I think that Draft replacing Orre this year with everything else the same would be the strongest direction for ADVLTL.

Edit: If slot expansion is considered, I gotta say Adv 200 is one of the best metagames out there and I'd support its inclusion
 
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Posting to support the continued inclusion of both Orre and DOU. It rewards managers who find players that collaborate in both formats, and having both formats has been competitive in last year's ADVLTL and the recent Vintage Doubles League. Having two doubles slots doesn't really weaken the pool of other formats so it doesn't really make sense to replace it for a format like draft or randbats, just add them as additional slots if the interest exists.

I think most Orre players support Bo5 (closed teamsheets) over Bo3 in team tours. The games are quick and team-lock means you don't have any extra building to do.
 
I think last year's post from zee still sums up why if doubles is included it should include both DOU and Orre. I've participated in a team tour with only one doubles format and I think there's a good probability that it does put you and your supports on an island given the low overlap between singles and doubles players. Having both promotes the team aspect of the tournament, as oops said above it rewards manager draft prep, and the formats are different enough to warrant simultaneous inclusion.

While I get the sentiment of "drop Orre if we're dropping a doubles" (DOU really should have inclusion in a Smogon team tournament and LTL seems like the current place) I still advocate for there being two doubles formats and keeping Orre paired. And with Vintage Doubles League on top of last year's LTL it seems like there is already more collaboration between DOU and Orre than before so having both will likely produce the desired result of having the doubles slotted players feel more of a team aspect in the tournament rather than being on an island.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I think that Bo5 closed teamsheet Orre is manageable due to team lock and low turn count of games and seems like the preferred manner of player for weekly league play. Bo5 (whether CTS or OTS) seems good for Orre to help with variance at the least.
 
eeriespell said:
as someone who has played and tested orre after being responsible for a slot in altpl: please make orre bo5 if at all possible, games in orre are so often decided by one or two critical turns that a little bit of luck at the right time can completely upend the game. i understand that risk management is an inherent factor of the game, but i feel that in this scenario it genuinely does make orre less competitive

cc Akiak
Click to expand...
Thank you for supporting Orre. I strongly agree, and I want to reiterate that Bo3/Bo5 Orre is not at all comparable to Bo3/Bo5 in Smogon formats, due to teamlock (so you still only need 1 team for the whole set), and the average Orre game lasting only 6-7 turns.

As others have said, I think we generally agree that Orre should be played in Bo5s (with closed team sheets) for weekly scheduled tournament matches.

I had a slightly frustrating time in my last couple Orre team tours but would eagerly consider joining if Bo5 was confirmed.
 
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