Tournaments ADVPL V Format Discussion

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As a former Manager who is also looking to run the team again this year, I think the format with 8 teams and 10 slots has worked pretty well last season, just as expected. I am strongly in favor of keeping the status quo numbers-wise.

As for the tiers, I wanna say everything from last year has worked as well, both in terms of numbers and depth. Hence, I am personally against removing any tier that has been part of ADVPL IV. I am not opposed to potentially including new tiers. But I would sooner consider cutting one of the OU slots, if we strongly feel like there's one more deserving tier out there (RU? I wouldn't mind). It seems to me like a better compromise than the 12 slots route, or even worse, removing completely an established tier which has already (successfully) been included in the previous edition(s).

That's a necessary premise considering the raise of ADV RU. My personal preference would be either the status quo or adding RU without removing DOU or any other lower tier.

I also would like to voice my support about ADV DOU potentially being Bo3. Last season I've had the pleasure of teaming with Grandmas Cookin, who is deeply involved in the tier. I decided to put a notable amount of credits on that slot, to make up for me and Fog knowing single formats way better. Not only did it pay off, but reading my DOU channel throughout the season, quickly made me understand why the tier clearly deserves being in the tournament, yet is better off defaulting to Bo3.
 
OK i have discussed w people and since apparently 8x12 is ass and there should be no need to help new players get on the scene I propose this goat ahhh lit format
8 teams, 3 slots
3x Bo3
WE need QUALITY games, because ADVPL is too prestigious to have "more OU shitters" and because 12 people with 4x OU is TOO MUCH! Ofc we all know bo1 is ass, so for COMPETITIVE INTEGRITY we MUST have BO3, removing all lower tiers because ofc they dont need to be represented and have gone too far. Especially Ubers. Fuck Ubers. Anyway as i was saying, getting new (potentially mediocre) ppl to play and get mediocre games is NOT the wave, we should NOT CARE for new ppl that come into the scene and get chances, they should just rather rot away in the bench. Lets hope COMMON SENSE PREVAILS AND THERE IS NO 8X12, VIVA LA REVOLUTIONE FUCK LOWER TIERS!
 
And so begins the yearly tradition of people arguing about format like their life depends on it and then not caring about the actual tournament while it's ongoing.

I dunno either like this:

ADV Ubers
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU BO3
ADV UU
ADV NU
ADV PU
ADV ZU

or add LC + OU/UU/Uber BO3 would be my preferred format but anything is probably fine anglerfish are just gonna win again no matter what the format is
 
ALTPL and the Glalieless tour were painted as a way to see how the meta looked without Glalie (nevermind that every modern suspect every has been done with the mon legal), and then when they didn't get enough signups/effort to prove anything, ADVPL is being proposed as a way to see what the meta looks without Glalie, except this time at a higher level of play. I feel that NU is (understandably in my view) fairly territorial about their metas, and there's the view that this is less about exploring a Glalie-less ADVNU, and more about some folks in the ADV community forcing a tiering change past the NU community.

If I recall correctly the Glalie issue was scheduled to be revisted after NUCL ended, and I'd rather do that than adjucate Glalie's status in format discussion threads.
 
I would like to suggest ADV Draft to be added
It is one of the most popular draft tiers that gets played and draft has yet to be tried out in a team tour
Building a draft team with your ADV PL teammates would go hard and it encourages team work
Would be a cool experiment to try it out in ADVPL at least once
 
Glue said:
I would like to suggest ADV Draft to be added
It is one of the most popular draft tiers that gets played and draft has yet to be tried out in a team tour
Building a draft team with your ADV PL teammates would go hard and it encourages team work
Would be a cool experiment to try it out in ADVPL at least once
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the last thing adv draft needs rn is smogon touching it. even if it was a good fit for adv draft, eo is happening soon so you would lose a ton of the best adv draft players.
 
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Monai said:
I suggest the format
ADV OU x6/8
BO3 OU
ADV UU

I have multiple issues with most lower tiers and would not like to see anything past UU included, and having played NU, PU, ZU pretty extensively, I think I have the background to back up my opinions on at least several of them. The ADV NU playerbase is clearly uninterested in changing their tier for the better, allowing the ridiculous Glalie and its uncontestable Spikes to continue to dominate in both the builder and the match. The tier has extremely little backbone to make any bring feel consistent and there is realistically little diversity in play. I think PU is a much better tier, but still struggles with an unhealthy amount of paralysis, with probably 70% of teams fielding 2-4 forms of paralysis, which when coupled with Trapinch and lots of Substitute spam is overall a negative experience. As previously mentioned, the ADV DOU playerbase did not fare well after the recent ban to boom, but I have next to no experience in it or LC to comment.

I'm of the opinion these tiers should be left to their individuals and lower tier pl's to maintain a tournament scene. A mostly ADV OU tournament would improve both the quality of the tiers being played and the activity between the players, as my teammates (reasonably) would have virtually zero reason to look at my ADV NU/PU channels.

I know this is probably controversial to the lower tier players, I would feel bad if my tier got axed as well, but the reality is that there is still the lower tier forum tournaments to play them in, and I have similar issues for the vast majority of lower tiers I play in other generations, I will bring up this conversation again when BWPL rolls around.

Edit: I've been told by the very experienced player, SuperEpicAmpharos, that ADV Ubers also sucks shit too, so axe that one as well. idk anything about uu either tho but fruhdazi told me it sucks so whatever
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I do not believe it makes sense to choose which tiers to feature based on how much you or a couple high level players feel about them. What should matter is if they are being actively played and their community shows interest in the tournament. Going "Can Ubers because SEA said it's bad" is frankly insulting to the ADV Ubers player base, as an example.

What I would personally do (tho I understand my opinion matters little) is first check how active the various non-OU tiers are by looking at their recent tournament scenes and, if possible, maybe get some surveys done on like the tier's official Discord to see how many people in their communities would be interested and THEN decide to keep them or not. Don't just randomly can a meta because someone personally doesn't enjoy it, the quality of tiers is often subjective too so not a great metric.
 
SPFunkM said:
the last thing adv draft needs rn is smogon touching it.
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My bad.

Include draft or don’t include it though. I think the tier has more than enough people that would want to play it. More people certainly play it than the not OU slots in this tournament. However, logistical issues of throwing it into a tournament without an already existing break week to draft teams isn’t feasible. I enjoyed ADVPL last year and think a draft slot in this tour could be fun, but don’t know if putting in the effort would be worth it. That’s for y’all to decide

include LC
 
well seems like adv nu is going to split into two different tiers this year then, who knew
either one works, just do whichever one is more popular, i don't really care for the logistics of the slot but seems like both glalieless and glaliefull nu is going to stay around regardless

I like RU and ZU, the 12 slots seem pretty cool to me otherwise do what you want.
 
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In theory, these tournaments should be here to serve the ADV community so I wanted to say that I think the established yearly ADV tournaments should have differing levels of exclusivity as to serve the player base better.

This is why I agree with others who are seeking 6 OU slots.

For SPL, you have 8 players.

For Jimvitational, (which as a continuation of Callous Invitational has been running for the past 9 years), you have 32 players.

You also have your Smogon, Revival circuits and Mushi league where anybody can play and get games if they sign-up.

I think ADVPL should be in between where Jimvitational and the anyone-can-play stuff are for OU slots specifically.

In terms of justifying quality of games with 48 or more OU players, look at how many strong players didn’t even make it out of the Swiss in this year’s ADV Revival tournament. This player base is already strong and deep and only getting stronger and deeper.
 
Just wanna mention i was tired and didnt think of how rude it sounded , i will admit thats my bad.
Amity said:
Me personally I don't like having to fight with other tiers for inclusion, I think it should just be power to the people that want to vouch for their tier instead of putting others down for it because of arbitrary perception bias in the case of this post:



This being said, I want to vouch for an 8 x 12 format with these tiers:

ADV OU x 4
ADV OU Bo3 x1
ADV Ubers x 1
ADV UU x 1
ADV RU x1
ADV NU (Glalieless) x1
ADV PU x 1
ADV ZU x 1
ADV LC x 1

This helps in two areas. 1. It increases the amount of OU slots and with the exponential playerbase increase ADV OU has had over the past few years is especially helpful here. 2. It gives a lot of ADV lower tiers some representation and doesn't mean we need to have any "RU or ZU" debates. ADV is one of the single most played old gens and I think having a significantly large player pool is warranted, these slots can all be filled without trouble imo.

Now comes the part where, as an ADV RU TL, I vouch for ADV RU. The tier has seen a FAR substantial amount of growth from last year, and is more heavily integrated into RU tours like RUGL, RUWC, RUBD, heck even today the proposed RUPL (RUPL!!!!!) format had ADV RU in it, and there's talk of its inclusion into RU Classic. I can't stress enough how its inclusion into ADVPL would be nothing short of beneficial to the tour, it is an incredibly unique and well-regarded ADV lower tier that has more active development than even some established lower tiers and has a playerbase that will want to play it including myself.

Re: ADV DOU, echoing most players thoughts in the thread about it. That's all I wanna say on the matter.
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Honestly for what I didn't touch on my first post, I enjoy the idea of adding more OU slots and removing DOU the 8 x 12 format sounds quite enjoyable while the tiers are still not clear to me, but I myself think adding more OU's/BO3 is a good thing and while I'm not against the idea of adding draft as I think it could be a really cool idea I have one man questions on it, would it be 1 draft for the whole tour or one for main stage and one for PO.

On lower tiers I'm not against them at all as long as there's a reasonably big following of them supporting that they want to play/join this tournament, not saying in this thread but just a general excitement may make peoples opinions change whether or not its a good idea to play them
 
I'll throw my 2 cents in here regarding the NU talk. I think it doesn't matter to me whether Glalie is a suspect slot/non-Glalie slot/Glalie slot because this is supposed to be a fun tour. I believe determining Glalie's fate should be kept within the community of NU and because of that, I have no preference on what kind of slot to make NU. The community "appears" to be divided on whether to allow it in the slot and that's perfectly understandable. So again, I don't care whether it's allowed or not, I'm going to have fun with this tour either way. If anything, not allowing it allows people to be a little more creative when it comes to building since there's other spikers (Cacturne, Roselia at least).

I think the one thing no one should be seeing here is talk of eliminating the NU slot entirely. It's been a constant slot in this tour since it started and I see no reason why it should be 86'd after all this time. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any talk of such a horrible concept yet and I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. Not to mention I don't want this talk with Glalie to be the reason for the slot being cut either.
 
Colteor said:
There's a ton of tours that are just ADV OU, including new ones like ADV wcop.
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4 ou slots is good I feel. Every team drafts like 2+ ou subs and we kinda hit the end of the "viable" pool, if that means anything. This tour is not mushi league and mushi league does exist if you're a new player who wants to play a teamtour. 5 could be ok if we want to remove a lowtier and keep 10 slots - 10 slots is ideal but let's not do 6x ou to get there.

Nuke ou bo3. This is a team tour! Some people want to play it I guess so it's ok in one slot, but from a team lineup perspective it creates a weird incentive to have one slot as bo3 and others as bo1. Not a huge issue because this tour is pretty much just for fun anyway, but the correct thing to is all bo1.

If your tier is too high-variance to be included then making it bo3 doesn't fix that issue. If doubles is included it should be forced one way or another, too; the way it was last year was just ridiculous. At minimum the default should be bo3, which almost all players prefer, so you don't get an annoying situation where one player gets to hold all of their opponents hostage. Players preferring bo3 because each game lasts 5 turns is one thing but you just need to watch last year's games to get the impression that bo3 vs bo1 doesn't really reduce the variance all that much. Aside from that I don't really care about which low tiers get in or in what state.
 
Siglut said:
View attachment 711711

4 ou slots is good I feel. Every team drafts like 2+ ou subs and we kinda hit the end of the "viable" pool, if that means anything. This tour is not mushi league and mushi league does exist if you're a new player who wants to play a teamtour. 5 could be ok if we want to remove a lowtier and keep 10 slots - 10 slots is ideal but let's not do 6x ou to get there.

Nuke ou bo3. This is a team tour! Some people want to play it I guess so it's ok in one slot, but from a team lineup perspective it creates a weird incentive to have one slot as bo3 and others as bo1. Not a huge issue because this tour is pretty much just for fun anyway, but the correct thing to is all bo1.

If your tier is too high-variance to be included then making it bo3 doesn't fix that issue. If doubles is included it should be forced one way or another, too; the way it was last year was just ridiculous. At minimum the default should be bo3, which almost all players prefer, so you don't get an annoying situation where one player gets to hold all of their opponents hostage. Players preferring bo3 because each game lasts 5 turns is one thing but you just need to watch last year's games to get the impression that bo3 vs bo1 doesn't really reduce the variance all that much. Aside from that I don't really care about which low tiers get in or in what state.
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yea nah I'm a horrendous host :100 emoji:
 
What I learned in previous ADVPL editions: custom formats (suspect tests, ban/add stuff) is way much funnier and competitive that covering all possible formats due to the lack of mainers. It involves most of the team in preparing/testing weird ass teams rather than locking slots in tiers with weak pools (yeah bro no one plays ADV DOU, and if someone really mains that tier will farm wins week in week out). Bo3 multitier slots are also funny.

ADV Ubers
Bo3 Ubers/OU/UU
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU
Some weird ass custom format (suspect no Baton Pass OU, no Kang UU, UU + some UUBL mon)
ADV UU
ADV NU
ADV PU
ZU or LC (both suck but not as much as RU) I mean, you could even make this another OU/UU slot lmao
 
Thought I was one and done in this thread but Glue may have made the best suggestion I have ever seen in one of these threads.

ADV draft is a huge community and they really do not overlap with the other tiers. Emerald Open is one of the biggest ADV tours every year and I think the ADV draft community is great and we would be doing a disservice to this tour by not incorporating them into it. I also think the draft community as a whole is awesome and it would be nice if ADV were the first tier to accept them into these types of tours. We can figure out the logistics if it happens, but I honestly believe the number 1 non-ou tier that should be in this tour is draft.
 
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JabbaTheGriffin said:
Thought I was one and done in this thread but Glue may have made the best suggestion I have ever seen in one of these threads.

ADV draft is a huge community and they really do not overlap with the other tiers. Emerald Open is one of the biggest ADV tours every year and I think the ADV draft community is great and we would be doing a disservice to this tour by not incorporating them into it. I also think the draft community as a whole is awesome and it would be nice if ADV were the first tier to accept them into these types of tours. We can figure out the logistics if it happens, but I honestly believe the number 1 non-ou tier that should be in this tour is draft.
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Once the auction is over the draft starts? Yeah that's gonna be an all-day event.
 
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