Aerodactyl [QC 0/3]

[peng]

Aerodactyl​

[Overview]

• Hasn't really gained anything itself (move tutor-wise) from BW2.
• Hurricane resistance and Base 130 Speed make it decent in a metagame full of Tornadus-T.
• insert generic quake-edge comment
• Taunt + Roost can allow it to dismantle certain stall cores.
• With Max Speed, outspeeds +1 Adamant Dragonite and Gyarados

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb
nature: Jolly
ability: Pressure
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• Basically the only good set
• Combination of Taunt, excellent coverage, Roost and a nice set of resistances/immunities allow Aerodoactyl to muscle past some physical walls
• e.g. Skarmory, Gliscor (lacking Ice Fang), Jellicent
• Can break some stall variants thanks to Taunt / Roost and it outspeeds ScarfTar.
• Has a niche as a non-scarf Pokemon that can safely switch-in on Tornadus-T's Hurricane, outspeed, and OHKO back with Stone Edge / Rock Slide.
• Base 130 Spd means that it can be troubling for offensive teams as well as stall
• Beats the incredibly common Amoonguss 1v1 - Taunt blocks Spore, Hidden Power [Ice] deals 29% max in Sandstorm, Giga Drain deals 23% max.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Rock Slide is an option for the greater accuracy and PP. Flinch chance is always helpful when you have base 130 Spd too! Power difference is significant; misses out on 2HKOing Jellicent after SR w/ Sand etc etc
• 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spd is an alternative EV spread; outspeeds Torn-T by 1 point and gives you slightly better bulk. Misses out on outspeeding ScarfToed , +1 Adamant Gyara and +1 Adamant Dragonite.
• appreciates sandstorm support so that it can come in on Tornadus-T and also beat a bunch of defensive mons 1v1
• Hippowdon and Tyranitar debate - Hippowdon has greater longevity thanks to Slack Off and is a better switch-in to common scarfers that can revenge Aero (e.g. Jirachi, Terrakion, Landorus, Thundurus-T)
• Choice Band Tyranitar is a great wallbreaking partner for luring in and weakening physical tanks (e.g. Hippowdown, Landorus-T). A faster EV spread on a Stealth Rock variant can be used to lure in and KO Scizor with Fire Blast, clearing the way for an Aerodactyl sweep.
• Although LO Aero can muscle its way past Skarmory without too much hassle, Magnezone is still a notable partner for trapping and disposing of Forretress and Ferrothorn.
• On the offensive side, Magnezone also helps deal with Scizor.
• Aero is very susceptible to priority; notably Bullet Punch, Ice Shard and Aqua Jet from Scizor, Mamoswine and Azumarill respectively.
• Stall cores work well as partners as they can set-up hazards on relatively weak priority attacks: for example, Skarmory easily sets up on Mamoswine and Scizor while Jellicent walls Azumarill and can spinblock.
• Skarmory is an especially good partner because Aerodactyl needs all the hazard support it can get to even attempt to take on stuff like Forretress.
• Rapid Spin support is helpful due to Aero's SR weakness. Forretress gets a special mention as it also sets up TSpikes and Spikes to help break through Slowbro and Hippowdon.
• Bulky Starmie tanks priority attacks from Scizor and Azumarill and has a 30% chance to burn them with Scald, spins, as well as resisting every move on the common Azumarill moveset. KOs Mamoswine with Scald.

[Other Options]

• Aerial Ace is its best Flying-type STAB option - slays Keldeo, Breloom, Virizion, etc
• Hone Claws gives Stone Edge 100% accuracy, but doesn't really need it to bypass stall and vs offense he's better off just using Stone Edge 90% of the time. +1 SE 2HKOs Skarmory.
• Fire Fang for Scizor / Forretress / Ferrothorn.
• Pursuit.
• Gets access to Rain Dance and Sunny Day if you want to take a manual weather route, but those teams generally suck and there are better options for that out there anyway.
• Doesn't get Head Smash or Brave Bird, but can still abuse Rock Head with Double Edge. Only set that can afford a moveslot free for this would be Choice Band.
• Crunch hits Psychics and Ghosts, notably Jellicent and Slowbro. However, Jellicent already has a 90% chance of being 2HKOd by Stone Edge after Rocks and Sandstorm, and you aren't getting past Slowbro barring Crunch defense drops anyway.
• Aqua Tail hits bulky Ground-types like Hippowdon harder than everything else.
• Viable SubRoost set thanks to Pressure
• Stealth Rock a la gen 4 lead
• Protect + Fire Blast for Scizor / Genesect / Ferrothorn
• Tailwind for team support
• Roar / Whirlwind

[Checks and Counters]

• Aero hates priority; Scizor, Mamoswine, Azumarill and Bullet Punch Lucario don't like taking LO-boosted attacks directly but can force out Aerodactyl easily.
• Practically any scarfer that hits on the physical side is a check (bar slow shit like ttar)
• Breloom and Virizion resist both Earthquake and Stone Edge. Technician Mach Punches from Breloom hurt.
• Ferrothorn resists Stone Edge and takes nothing from Earthquake, so switches in easily bar the rare Fire Fang. OHKOs with Gyro Ball
• Gliscor is a decent counter if it has Ice Fang - generally can't touch Aerodactyl at all if it only has Earthquake and Toxic.
• Aerodactyl hates all status, but can avoid most with Taunt.
• Slowbro is probably the best counter there is, Stone Edge doesn't come close to 2HKOing and it can recover off damage easily between Slack Off and Regenerator.
• Bulky Ground-types like Hippowdon and Donphan resist Stone Edge and take little from Earthquake. Can retaliate with Ice Fang / Roar and Ice Shard respectively. Landorus-T is also a very good counter thanks to Intimidate and can hit Aerodactyl with a Super Effective Stone Edge.
• Modest Scarf Rotom-W OHKOs with Hydro Pump
• Can survive a Volt Switch from Scarf Thundurus but dies to Thunderbolt
• Only speed ties at best with Specs Jolteon, OHKOs in Sand.

 

[PK Gaming]

The LO set looks good.

I will not approve the SR set; It was fairly decent in DPP but it's dead weight in BW OU. In fact, i'd argue that it's a crutch for most players and it just shouldn't be used, period. So yeah remove it and i'll approve.

 

[peng]

Yeah, the only reason I even listed the SR set was because in Pocket's QC list he said he wanted it as the first set listed, but I don't know anyone who has used it to any success at all in BW2.

Removed SR set.

 

[alexwolf]

The 72 evs that are placed into SpD in the set in AC, should go into HP to help Aero tank Superpowers from Tornadus-T better (which he already struggles to do). Calcs:

LO Superpower vs 72 HP: 50.47 - 59.56%
LO Superpower vs 0 HP: 53.48 - 63.12%

While in the other hand here are the calcs of Hurricane vs the 2 spreads (in sandstorm):

Hurricane vs 72 HP: 30.4 - 35.73%
Hurricane vs 72 SpD: 29.23 - 34.55%

And because Aero already takes Hurricanes like a boss, we should focus on minimizing the damage from the attacks that hurt Aero the most (of 'course we won't put the evs on Def, as Aero's main uses are to check Tornadus-T, revenge kill stuff, and stallbreak a bit, especially against special attackers).

I also think that Rock Slide should be the main slash over Stone Edge for multiple reasons. First of all, Rock Slide does most of the stuff that SE does, meaning ohkoing Tornadus-T and Gyarados from full health, and Dnite after SR (you can't ohko with MS active with neither move), while having better accuracy (SE will miss 1 in 5 games, RS will miss in one out of 10 games) and more PPs. Both the pp and accuracy parts are also important when trying to stallbreak vs pokes such as Gliscor and Skarmory. With SE you only have 8 tries to kill them, where 1-2 of the tries will statistically miss. Add to this the fact that you will have to Roost or Taunt every 2-3 turns, due to LO recoil, their attacks, and to Taunt ending, and you will see that in practice, it will be very hard to beat those pokes. So even if you do manage to kill them you will be left with 1-2 SE pps (if you haven't used SE before), which is troublesome. Imagine having Aero with no pps of his main STAB move... Rock Slide has double the pps, and an awesome, i repeat AWESOME flinch chance, which works wonders, i repeat WONDERS, with Aeros blazing speed.

So Rock Slide > Stone Edge.

 

[PK Gaming]

Yeah I agree with Alexwolf, I don't see much merit in running Stone Edge over Rock Slide on Aerodactyl, since it honestly doesn't care about the added power most of the time. Make it a secondary slash option though; Its noticeably stronger against the entire metagame and gets more damage across the board. For example, SE can 2hko 252/0 Celebi's with SR support, while Rock Slide cannot. It also gets more damage on things like Landorus and Rotom as well. Don't forget to mention that this thing loves sand support from the likes of Tyranitar / Hippowdown.

QC APPROVED (1/3)

 

[jc104]

I'd like to see Fire Blast, Protect (for Scizor, mainly), and Ice Fang mentioned somewhere on the analysis, SR lead set given a fairly detailed OO mention, and possibly Stealth Rock in AC of the Life Orb set (probably over Roost). edit: Rock Slide first slash is fine with me too; having watched a few ADV matches I've seen how incredible that Rock Slide flinch hax is.

Otherwise, good.

QC APPROVED 2/3

 

[Pocket]

Quality skeleton, PenguinX!

But yea, you mentioned Sunny Day / Rain Dance, but no mention of Stealth Rock? Also as jc104 has mentioned, Fire Blast and Protect are good OO mentions for roasting Ferrothorn and scouting CB Scizor's moves, respectively.

Some few things:

~ Rock Slide can be slashed with Stone Edge, but make it a secondary slash. This set lacks the raw power of CB Aerodactyl of ADV, and definitely appreciates the extra power from Stone Edge to dent bulky mons like Landorus-T, Jellicent, and defensive Politoed.

~ Certainly mention that Aerial Ace is not only useful for Keldeo, but for Virizion and Breloom, which resist Aerodactyl's EdgeQuake offense.

~ OO mention of Tailwind and Roar / Whirlwind

~ You can mention Special Scarfers that can still beat it despite sand's special defense boost. Scarf Rotom-W's Hydro Pump still secures an OHKO, for instance. It's notable that Aerodactyl can survive a Volt Switch from Scarf Thundurus-T (69-82%). Choice Specs Jolteon is dangerous, though (85-101%). Aerodactyl can stomache a Surf from Scarf Keldeo in the sand (71-84%), but Hydro Pump is risky (89-106%).

 

[ginganinja]

QC 3/3

Provided that you take Pockets suggestions into account. You have not responded to Pocket so pls let us know if you are still working on this tyvm

 

[peng]

Yeah, still working on this, just been pretty busy the last month.

I'll make a start asap.

 

[Lavos]

I know this already got QC and stuff, but where the hell is the Lead SR set in this analysis? It's possibly Aerodactyl's best set, considering Aero is the fastest OU Stealth Rock user, and combined with access to Taunt it runs a lovely lead set. I used it in WCoP on a hyper offensive team and went 2 wins, zero losses, so I know from first hand experience just how great it can l be. I'll leave you with a set:

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge (obviously a case of accuracy vs. power and they both work tbh)
- Earthquake

 

[asterat]

I think fire blast should have a slash with earthquake on the SR set, if not a slash with taunt on LO set. It nails ferrothorn and forretress looking to gyro ball it to oblivion, and in forretress' case, rapid spin. It also gets skarm, but taunt will shut it down as well.

 

[tab]

Yeah, I'd slash it with Taunt. When I was using a LO Aero recently, I found it much more useful in general, but I'm fine with Taunt being the main slash.

 

[PK Gaming]

I know this already got QC and stuff, but where the hell is the Lead SR set in this analysis? It's possibly Aerodactyl's best set, considering Aero is the fastest OU Stealth Rock user, and combined with access to Taunt it runs a lovely lead set. I used it in WCoP on a hyper offensive team and went 2 wins, zero losses, so I know from first hand experience just how great it can l be. I'll leave you with a set:

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge (obviously a case of accuracy vs. power and they both work tbh)
- Earthquake

Truthfully, i'm not to familiar with using SR-anti lead Aerodactyl. It just comes off as odd or vaguely unsatisfying or even JUST SO TERRIBLE in the short term, but I suppose it can make sense and work better overall in the big picture. Personally, I don't like the idea of being down Pokemon simply to get SR and deny SR on your opponents.

I trust your judgement, so i'll take your word on it.

 

[jc104]

I think i'd find that difficult to justify over Terrakion, which, though slower, is rarely taunted anyway and has much greater offensive presence.

 

[alexwolf]

The difference jc is that Terrakion can't prevent the opponent from laying down SR, which is a problem for many HO team that don't carry a spinner and use SR weak pokes such as Dragonite and Volcarona.

 

[jc104]

Yes it can alexwolf. It has taunt and is faster than virtually every common SR user (the main exception being Dugtrio).

edit: also forgot deoxys-d lol. A played played version with magic coat can effectively deal with faster taunt users, and it gets absurd bulk and spikes.

 

[alexwolf]

Yes it can alexwolf. It has taunt and is faster than virtually every common SR user (the main exception being Dugtrio).

Azelf, Cobalion, Terrakion, Hippowdon, Infernape are the pokes that Aerodactyl beats (meaning that it sets up SR and prevents them from doing so, or in Hippo's case he even keeps his Sash intact), and Terrakion fares worse against. The only really notable is Azelf though, as most other pokes speed tie with Terrakion, and Hippowdon is still prevented from laying up SR, while you get yours up. So yeah i guess that jc104 is right, and lead Aero is outclassed generally, except from some really rare occasions, which means that it doesn't need more than an OO mention

 

[-Tsunami-]

Yeah agreeing with the above sentiments on Aerodactyl not needing a lead set. In BW1, it was viable, but since Terrakion got Stealth Rock, it is a much better option since it can threaten a large part of the metagame and Taunting Terrakion would most likely end in the death of your Pokemon.

 

[shrang]

I personally think a lead SR set is probably the best thing Aerodactyl can do in this metagame. Its speed is definitely its most important asset, letting you pretty much Taunt every other hazard layer before they can move (except lol Accelgor), which is pretty important on its own. I personally think the Life Orb set is underwhelming for Aerodactyl, since everything is like twice as bulky this gen, it's going to be a lot harder to kill anything with Aerodactyl, let alone find time to Roost and what not.

 

[alexwolf]

You are wrong shrang. As shown above the lead set is mostly outclassed, and Aero's viability lies in it's ability to be a very good check to very dangerous mons such as Volcarona and Tornadus-T, which are both troubling for offesnive teams, without forfeiting momentum. While Aero doesn't hit so hard, true, this is not his purpose anyway. He is a fast attacker, that can outspeed and OHKO many offensive threats (he is quite good against offensive teams actually), has Taunt to prevent any set-up, which is obviously a godsend for offensive teams, and finally can somehow mitigate his frailness, SR weakness and LO recoil with Roost, against the many pokes that he forces out. His use is small, but it surely has one, because Volcarona and Tornadus-T are simply that big threats in the OU meta, and something that can check them (almost counter them) very good, while also being an ok revenge killer, is very useful for some offensive teams.

Oh and a small detail, even if he lacks power he can actually beat many stall mons with the combo of Taunt + Roost + Stone Edge / EQ, such as Blissey, Chansey, Hippowdon, Deoxys-D and Skarmory.

 

[shrang]

Thing is, that Aero "checks" those Pokemon with the lead set anyway. He doesn't need Life Orb to OHKO Volcarona or Tornadus-T with Stone Edge. This is all while being able to be the fastest Stealth Rock user in the metagame. If you need Aerodactyl alive, you can always just keep it around to check Volcarona and Tornadus-T anyway. You don't have suicide it immediately.

As for beating the stall mons, while Aerodactyl can generally beat the Pokemon you mentioned one on one, he's still pretty useless against stall in general. Sand stall has shit like Gastrodon and Hippowdon (Aero doesn't beat Hippowdon, you do piss to it with EQ, while it can Ice Fang you for decent damage, and if you try to Roost it off, you risk getting EQed). Rain stall just plonks a Ferrothorn in front of you and Aero is completely fucked (hell they could probably just stick Politoed in front of you and they'll still win). Yeah, you can Taunt them, but that is about it. Aerodactyl has very little way of causing problems for stall as a whole, I'm afraid.

 

[alexwolf]

^ Are you serious shrang? Aero with Sash is a lead. Which means that he will set-up SR, and most likey brough down to his Sash. How is he supposed to check Volcarona and Tornadus-T with 1 HP? And don't say to me, if you see those 2 then don't lead with him, because then how am i supposed to get SR up, not to mention the fact that i will have wasted an item slot, as SR will be up and Aero's Sash will be useless.

Even if you diregard all these, there is also the fact that Aero is really weak, so if you take his LO away, good luck revenge killing threats such as Starmie, Gengar, and Lati@s. Also without Roost, you will go down really quick, as LO, SR and resisted hits will take their toll, and a spinner will become almost a necessity. So again good luck checking Tornadus-T and Volcarona without Roost, more than once.

Finally while Aerodactyl is not a stallbreaker by any means, the fact that he can beat some defensive mons, and prevent set-up in a pinch with Taunt, is just an added bonus, and definitely comes handy sometimes.

 

[shrang]

I have no problem with not using Focus Sash and suiciding the Aerodactyl immediately, but I do think Stealth Rock should be slash on the set we already have, if not the main slash over Roost. That way, you have your Life Orb boost if you want it, as well as having Stealth Rock as well. Roost is pretty bad on Aerodactyl anyway. What the hell are you Roosting on? If you opponent has an attacking move that's not called Seismic Toss, it's probably hitting you for more damage than you can be Roosting with. Sure, you can "Roost on the switch", but Aerodactyl doesn't threaten that many Pokemon that much that you can pull off Roost whenever you want. It's like giving Deoxys-A Recover.

So yeah, I'm perfectly fine with a dedicated lead set being omitted, but I do think Stealth Rock should be mentioned as a slash over Roost.

Wall of text below:

Anyway, I'm going to expand a bit more on the Focus Sash lead set. I'd suggest people don't just home in on the "it sets up SR, stops your opponent from doing so, and that's it". I'm saying this because this is exactly why you would use the thing. As I just had a relatively heated discussion on IRC, my question to you is "what more do you want"? I can't see why you would say stuff like "Aerodactyl is outclassed by Terrakion as a suicide lead" when it clearly isn't. I know I discourage people from making 1v1 arguments, but as suicide leads, 1v1 is basically what it comes down to. Aerodactyl vs Terrakion 1v1, who gets the early game Stealth Rock and momentum?

Truthfully, i'm not to familiar with using SR-anti lead Aerodactyl. It just comes off as odd or vaguely unsatisfying or even JUST SO TERRIBLE in the short term, but I suppose it can make sense and work better overall in the big picture. Personally, I don't like the idea of being down Pokemon simply to get SR and deny SR on your opponents.

I trust your judgement, so i'll take your word on it.

Like I said, this is exactly why Aerodactyl is still viable as a suicide lead. It is the best suicide lead you can find in the metagame. Like seriously, I can't see why "setting up SR and preventing your opponent from doing the same" is insignificant. There's a reason why this strategy was popular in DPP (and still is effective, to an extent). You grab the early game momentum straight away. Against certain teams, that is an instant win right there. For example, the suicide lead Deo-D + Dragons + fillers archetype would always be one step behind anyone using Aerodactyl + 5 sweepers setup. Why? Because Deo-D is prevented from setting up SR and Spikes, which as a consequence makes their sweepers a lot easier to deal with. The idea is very simple.

Turn 1:
I-1: Opponent leads with Deo-D - Aero uses Taunt
I-2: Opponent leads with something else - Aero uses SR (or kills the opposing lead if possible)
II-1: Opponent switches Deo-D into their sweeper - Go to I-2

Outcome - Aerodactyl dies (5-6), you switch in sweeper number 1, your opponent is defending. For two Hyper Offensive teams, you're pretty much winning already.

Now, even if your opponent is not using a Hyper Offensive team, if you use Aerodactyl, you are already discouraging your opponent from running their own preferred hazard lead. You still grabbed the early game momentum. Everyone says that Rapid Spinning is a lot easier now, but forget that you need to burn up a turn to pull it off. If you consider what kind of team Aerodactyl is on (Hyper Offense), you would know that you want to give the opponent as little free time as possible. Using Aerodactyl in Pokemon is pretty much the same idea as using like a Kings Gambit, Queens Gambit or Danish Gambit in chess. You are immediately grabbing initiative and going on the offense and your opponent is the one defending. I know this kind of style does not suit everyone, but it is prevalent enough that it should be prepared for. As long as suicide leads exist (because they do), suicide lead Aerodactyl will be viable.

 

[dice]

Turn 1:
I-1: Opponent leads with Deo-D - Aero uses Taunt. Deoxys-D uses Magic Coat.

Suicide Aeroactyl is largely outclassed and it doesn't deserve a set, imo.

 

[alexwolf]

shrang you are overlooking a ton of things...

As already mentioned, Aero does not insta-win against Deoxys-D because of Magic Coat. Also it seems that you also missed the previous discussion. What can Aero fare better against than Terrakion in the lead slot? Azelf, Cobalion, Infernape, Dugtrio and this is pretty much it. SR Cobalion is rare as fuck, Infernape has better things to do than to lay down SR, Dugtrio never leads, so you are pretty much left with Azelf [and opposing Terrakion, which comes down to a 50/50]. So Aero's usefulness over Terrakion is beating 1.5 pokes more ok?

Ok let's see Terrakion now... Terrakion is 10 times better than Aero as a suicide lead for 2 reasons: even if you are faster you may not want to Taunt him, and he has awesome STABs and power. What does this mean? It means that Gyro Ball-less Ferro, Cloyster, Deoxys-D, Tyranitar, Genesect, Mamoswine, Cloyster, Hydreigon and Haxorus all struggle with Terrakion, while they fare better against Aero, or straight up beat him. Forretress straight up beats Aerodactyl, while Terrakion can actually kill him with its base 129 Atk, SD and an 120 BP move, while also not being weak to Volt Switch. Cloyster has a 50% chance to beat Aero. If you use Taunt and he uses Icicle Spear, you are dead. If you use SR and he uses Shell Smash, probably your whole HO team is dead. Terrakion can Taunt him, take the Icicle Spear, and the next turn either bring Cloyster down to his sash/kill him, or set-up SR. Deoxys-D with Magic Coat owns Aero, while Terrakion can use SD. And you don't want to use Magic Coat while a Terrakion uses SD right? Aero does manage to set-up SR against Ttar while also preventing him from doing so, but Terrakion goes one step further. He can straight up ohko Ttar, which your opponenet might need if you have a weather HO team, so you might set up SR AND keep your Sash intact, or just set-up with SD and make a mini-sweep. Against Genesect, Aero still does his job of setting up SR, but again Terrakion does it better, because Scarf Genesect can't 2hko Terrakion, while Terrakion can set-up SR and survive the second hit, dealing some damage. LO Mamoswine has a 50% chance of beating Aero. If he uses Ice Shard / Icicle Spear while Aero uses Taunt, Mamo wins, and if Mamo uses SR while he Taunts, Aero wins. Terrakion always wins though. Hydreigon has the fear of getting ohkoed by Terrakion, so Terrakion has the advantage against it over Aero. CB Haxorus has 50% chance to beat Aero as well. If you use Taunt as Haxorus uses Dual Chop, you are dead. If you use SR, and the opponent is a DD variant, then good luck to your sorry ass. Terrakion does not have this problem, as he can always use Taunt, take any attack without getting OHKOed, and then set-up SR.

And there is also the fact that Terrakion is a great poke regardless of the lead position, and is not useless if he doesn't lead, unlike Aero, which doesn't have the option to not lead.

So you want to use Focus Sash Aero over Focus Sash Terrakion with SR / SE / CC / Taunt or SD, just to beat Azelf? Well that's cool, but i don't think that this is a reason for something to get a set.

In the other hand, SR can definitely be slashed with Roost on the LO set, or at least mentioned in the AC, i don't see any harm in this.