Almost Any Ability XY (Suspect Over: Weavile banned, Keldeo Stays)

[Monte Cristo]

Also Multiscale isn't banned. Any reason?

Because it's not broken in the slightest in a tier filled with aerilate boom bursts that 2HKO cresselia, protean nasty plot pokemon such as mew and kyurem B running a ice move that could straight up OHKO itself, that and gale wings everything (even mandibuzz c:)

 

[AWailOfATail]

Multiscale should probably be banned. After all, we don't want Multiscale Shedinjas screwing us up, do we?

But in all seriousness, it should probably be banned. Maybe I'm overevaluating it, but Multiscale Porygon2 / Blissey / Anything with bulk and recovery would probably be too good.

EDIT: Nevermind, some valid points made. Yea, I'm definitely overevaluating it. It'll still be broken as hell on Shedinja though

 

[Zebstrika]

Does Multiscale Shedinja not die or something? It only halves damage, so any attack that would have done at least 2 damage (basically, anything not called tickling it with a feather when wonder guard is gone) to Shedinja still KOs it, unless something funny I don't know about happens.

 

[Wobblebuns]

This metagame looks like a fun mess! Here are some sets I could think of on top of my head.

Poison Heal: Snorlax@Toxic Orb [Curse / Facade / Crunch / Protect]
Technician: Weavile@Life Orb [Fake Out / Ice Shard / Bite / Low Kick]
Drought: Volcarona@Life Orb [Quiver Dance / Fiery Dance / Bug Buzz / HP Ground]
Lightningrod/Volt Absorb: Heliolisk@Leftovers [Substitute / Electrify / Thunderbolt / (Surf/HP Ice/Grass Knot)]
Chlorophyll: Roserade@Life Orb [(Sunny Day/Growth) / Solarbeam / Sludge Bomb / HP Fire]

 

[EJ190]

Does Multiscale Shedinja not die or something? It only halves damage, so any attack that would have done at least 2 damage (basically, anything not called tickling it with a feather when wonder guard is gone) to Shedinja still KOs it, unless something funny I don't know about happens.

I think that was a joke since multiscale does nothing for shedinja.
Edit: sturdy shedinja is banned. Right, ignore this post please.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I think that was a joke since multiscale does nothing for shedinja. Its a shame shedinja doesn't get endeavour. Sturdy would be funny on it.

You do know sturdy shedinja is on the banlist right?

 

[Mulan15262]

If anyone needs a pokemon to baton pass attack and speed boosts reliably, you have the following pokemon, with sets I think would be good:

Gliscor @ Yache Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Agility/Rock Polish
- Earthquake/Acrobatics
- Baton Pass

Scizor @ Leftovers/Scizorite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Agility
- Baton Pass
- Bug Bite/Bullet Punch/Pursuit

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Rock Polish
- Nasty Plot/Swords Dance
- Flame Charge/other attack

 

[Monte Cristo]

If anyone needs a pokemon to baton pass attack and speed boosts reliably, you have the following pokemon, with sets I think would be good:

Gliscor @ Yache Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Agility/Rock Polish
- Earthquake/Acrobatics
- Baton Pass

Scizor @ Leftovers/Scizorite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Agility
- Baton Pass
- Bug Bite/Bullet Punch/Pursuit

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Rock Polish
- Nasty Plot/Swords Dance
- Flame Charge/other attack

Good sets ^_^, but you have to remember that mega evolutions don't keep their previous ability on mega evo (like adaptabillity garchomp mega-ing gets sand force for instance) so are you sure that scizor wants that extra speed and bulk in exchange for flash fire?

Anyways, I've gone ahead and written an article about one of my favorite types of stalling, I never really gave it a name before, but here it is:
(Original framework/set up used by adrian marin's paranoid stalling for BH guide, props my fren :])

Survival Stall Guide:

Survival Stalling

What is "Survival Stalling"?

Survival Stalling is exclusive only to AAA & BH, Survival Stalling teams abuse the ability to carry Pranksters, Mold Breakers, Harvest and bulky toxic users. the strategy in using this type of stall is rather simple: You try to be in control of the game and end the battle with as most pokemon as possible.

How to Survival Stall?:

- Never switch any status orb Pokemon in by normal means, the orb must be activated by slow volt switched/uturn/baton pass.
- Always carry a spinner or defogger if you have 2 or more pokes with 25% SR weakness or 1 with 50%.
- All stall teams need a good defensive structure, the Survival stalling structure tries to counter: PH normals, Aerilate Boomburst users, Refrigerate Ice Types, Prankster Copycat Florges and Lucario, Keldeo, Levitate Heatran, DrizzleSwim/ChloroDrought/StreamRush, Magic Guard [Insert Pokemon with powerful recoil moves here] or [Insert Pokemon with giant SR weakness here], Breloom (prankster is top priority but if you can counter other variants, very good), and last but most importantly Victini.
- Don't just blindly switch steel types in unless magnet pull users are cleared
- Status Orb users often have strong recoil moves and/or voltturn watch out!

Examples of sets and cores made for Survival Stall:

Sample Core/Sets:

Purpose of this set: Mold Breaker, Anti Prankster and Skill Link Breloom, Lucario, and Amoongus.

Deoxys-Defense @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 SDef / 196 HP / 60 Def
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Recover

Purpose of this set: bulky toxic abuse, Anti-Aerilate Noivern, PH normals, Magic Guard thundurus, drizzle swim check, chloro drought check, and Victini

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 44 Def / 252 HP / 212 SDef
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Toxic

Purpose of this set: Harvest abuse, Calm Mind slow sweeper, anti-Breloom, lucario, Kyurem B check, and Magic Guard check

Cresselia (F) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam


Using the right lead for a Paranoid Stall team:

Sample sets:

Purpose: KOs many leads before they can fulfil their purpose

Kyurem-Black @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Return
- Roost

Purpose: Shut downs many leads and stall breaks things like deo-d leads

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off

Purpose: Able to handle Deo-S, Kyu-b and Deo-D leads very efficiently

Scizor @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flash Fire / Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spd
Careful Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Night Slash / Knock Off
- U-turn
- Iron Head / X-scissor


Conclusion:

Survival stalling is a great way to get around in AAA, especially with the amount of threats offense can't handle alone, I hope you enjoy trying it sometime!

 

[Mulan15262]

Good sets ^_^, but you have to remember that mega evolutions don't keep their previous ability on mega evo (like adaptabillity garchomp mega-ing gets sand force for instance) so are you sure that scizor wants that extra speed and bulk in exchange for flash fire?

Oh, forgot about that. Scizor probably should not mega-evolve, especially when that prevents you from mega-evolving anything else.

 

[Pikachuun]

Tacos&Flowers: doesnt say no guard is banned
Tacos&Flowers: and suicune has sheer cold

Make this clear please.

 

[EV]

Isn't the standard OU clauses thing in effect?

 

[Pikachuun]

Isn't the standard OU clauses thing in effect?

Yes, but I'm pretty sure he didn't notice that, so I just want to make it really clear.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Yes, but I'm pretty sure he didn't notice that, so I just want to make it really clear.

Of course standard OU clauses would be in effect, so would OHKO clause :p

 

[Cshadow]

I'm probably not treading new ground with any of this, but this is some of the stuff that came to mind. A lot of it I brought up (briefly) in the AE thread, but this meta offers a similar premise with less restrictions, so it should be just as fun (in theory).
Cresselia:
Ability: Unaware
Cresselia boasts the same mixed Defenses as our lord and savior, Arcues (with a stronger Special Defense, to boot), and although Psychic-typing sucks, she is still one bulky should-have-been-a-Fairy-type-motherfucker nonetheless. With Unaware, Cresselia can be used to check both Physically and Specially inclined threats alike. Although she cannot really do much back to them, she can run a Substitute / Calm Mind set of her own.

Ability: Drizzle / Drought
Cresselia could potentially be the bulkiest (legal) Sun / Rain setter the tier has to offer. With Lunar Dance, Cresselia can pave the way for a late game sweep, and she's even bulky enough to come in and reset the Rain / Sun repeatedly. Maybe something like this?

Cresselia @ Damp Rock / Sun Rock
Ability: Drizzle / Drought
-- HP / -- Def / -- SpD
Bold Nature / Calm Nature
~ Lunar Dance
~ Who cares?
~ See above.
~ Why are you still reading this?

Deoxys-S:
Ability: Protean
I would be genuinely surprised if this was not the first thing to come to mind for a lot of people. Weakness Policy and Unburden is undoubtedly going to be very popular strategy, and with a Choice Scarf Deoxys-S is capable of outrunning the (assumed) popular ones, like Metagross and Kyurem-B. Protean provides Deoxys-S with that little bit of oomph he has always needed to be an immediate threat rather than just a late-game cleaner / revenge killer. As a revenge killer / cleaner, Protean Genesect faces stiff competition from Protean Deoxys-S, who has a much better movepool and is capable of outrunning so many more Pokemon.

Deoxys-S @ Choice Scarf / Life Orb
Ability: Protean
-- Atk / -- SpA / -- Spe
Hasty Nature / Naive Nature
~ Psycho Boost / Extreme Speed
~ Superpower
~ Ice Beam
~ Rock Slide / Fire Punch

Genesect:
Ability: Protean
Everything Genesect could do before he does better and more reliably now. There is no other way to put it. He should be amazing.

Goodra:
Ability: Regenerator
One of Goodra's biggest drawbacks as an Assault Vest user was the fact that his life as an offensive pivot was rather short; vulnerability to entry hazards and no reliable recovery made Wish support a necessity in order to ensure his longevity. Regenerator fixes that problem, though, and guarantees that Goodra can come in again and again to put the hurt on specially offensive Pokemon. With Life Orb Noivern's Aerialate Boomburst only managing a 3HKO (38.6 - 45.6%), and Draco Meteor only managing a 2HKO (55.6 - 65.7%), in tandem with other power Special Attackers, like Protean Genesect, just barely being able to scratch him with Ice Beam (34.4 - 40.7%), Goodra should have no problem finding a niche in this unique metagame.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
~ Draco Meteor
~ Fire Blast
~ Thunderbolt
~ Dragon Tail / Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Ground]

Damage Calculations

Hide

vs. 252 SpA (Timid) [Protean] Genesect w/Choice Scarf Ice Beam: (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.
vs. 252 SpA (Timid) [Aerialate] Noivern w/Life Orb Boomburst: (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.
vs. 252 SpA (Timid) [Aerialate] Noivern w/Life Orb Draco Meteor: (55.6 - 65.7%)
vs. 172 SpA (Hasty) [Protean] Deoxys-S w/Life Orb Ice Beam: (35.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.
vs. 100 ATK (Hasty) [Protean] Deoxys-S w/Life Orb Superpower: (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Goodra obviously isn't going to be beating Protean users that can go Mixed, and while beating Noivern one-on-one won't be a problem, finding the perfect moment to switch in will be. Nonetheless, he should be interesting to use.

Ability: Poison Heal
While Regenerator can make him a more offensive pivot, Poison Heal turns Goodra into a better sponge. He doesn't take hits as well his Assault Vest counterpart (x1.5 > 10% + 63), nor does he boast the same offensive prowess, but Poison Heal should give him a longer life span, and Protect can be useful for scouting moves (which can help determine abilities). Worst comes to worse, spreading Toxic and absorbing status cannot be all that bad. Using the premise of the meta to patch-up weaknesses (like Flash Fire Ferrothorn) means Goodra is no longer capable of checking the same threats, though, and Pokemon like Volcarona are better off dealt with by using Unaware.

Goodra @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Fire Blast
~ Protect
~ Toxic

Ability: Unaware
Unaware is a fantastic ability on Goodra, as his massive Special Defense makes him more than capable of checking any number of the boosting Specially Offensive threats that are bound to be popular in this meta (i.e. Magic Guard Volcarona). Curse means that he can also boost alongside them and strengthen his paltry Defense stat, making him a much stronger mixed tank than some other Unaware boosters, like Suicune. Lack of reliable recovery stings, but there's no reason why Rest shouldn't work.

Goodra @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Ability: Unaware
248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
~ Rest
~ Curse
~ Dragon Tail
~ Rock Slide / Earthquake / Sleep Talk

Kyurem-B:
Ability: Refrigerate
This has been brought up before, but it is definitely worth re-iterating: Kyurem-B now has a ~132 base power STAB move at his disposal. One of his biggest pitfalls - the lack of a strong, Physical Ice-type STAB - has been remedied. He should be lots of fun to use.

Ability: Unburden
If Unburden Kyurem-B was good before, Weakness Policy should make him amazing now. There is not a lot to say - +2 +2 +2 Kyurem-B sounds very, very scary.

Kyurem:
Ability: Snow Warning
One of the biggest disappointments of B2W2 (for me) was the fact that they did not give Kyurem's base form Snow Warning. He makes for a much cooler Hail-setter than Abomasnow (sorry, Mr. President) and being able to fire powerful Blizzard's right off the bat should make him moderately threatening.

Gengar:
Ability: No Guard
Gengar is the fastest Pokemon with access to both Zap Cannon and Hypnosis (he may be the only one, actually), and while Levitate is a fantastic ability, crippling two Pokemon per game (at the minimum) is very appealing. Ghost / Electric / Fighting gets pretty fantastic neutral coverage and Zap Cannon is hitting as hard as a STAB Shadow Ball thanks to the base power buff it received a few generations ago (from 100 -> 120). A 100% Paralysis rate tacked onto a 120 Base Power move working off of a 130 base Special Attack stat means that few things are capable of walking away from No Guard Gengar unscathed.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
~ Hypnosis
~ Zap Cannon
~ Shadow Ball
~ Focus Blast / Will-O-Wisp

EDIT: Well, fuck. Apparently he doesn't get Zap Cannon from HGSS, so, never mind. That is a huge disappointment.

 

[Zebstrika]

Gengar only got Zap Cannon through 2nd gen TM, I believe.

There are some other good users though. Regice, Porygon, and Genesect can all pair it with Blizzard for a much scarier boltbeam. Ampharos and Deoxys can combine it with Dynamic Punch for parafusion. Dragonite gets Thunder, Hurricane, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Dragon Rush, Dynamic Punch, Iron Tail and Stone Edge.

 

[Monte Cristo]

We now have miniature rankings, I would like for some people to start playing/talking about what they've played and their experiences so we can get this to be more accurate and complete, for now it's mainly placeholders and examples. S rank is staying unchanged until a certain one of them gets banned though. I don't want this to take up the whole thread but I think it'll be nice conversation bait. Eh what do you think?

 

[Klang]

Are rhydon / mew really S rank worthy?

I mean, mew still has a pretty average typing and stat spread with 100 in everything and Rhydon, despite being bulky still has two horrible x4 weaknesses for a wall and no reliable recovery.

I've been using an interesting Fridge Cube set:


Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Dragon Tail
- Substitute
- Roost

Yeah I know the EV spread kinda sucks and it could use some speed but with Teravolt spikes this thing can easily dtail out steel types it doesn't like, having them take a ton of hazard damage while proceeding to smack anything else with a return. Truly hard to wall if it's allowed to get a sub up.

 

[Pikachuun]

Are rhydon / mew really S rank worthy?

I mean, mew still has a pretty average typing and stat spread with 100 in everything and Rhydon, despite being bulky still has two horrible x4 weaknesses for a wall and no reliable recovery.

Well, Mew has access to every TM and HM in the game, and when coupled with Protean or Sheer Force, can become a powerhouse fast with the most unpredictable movepool on the face of the earth. Plus, its decent bulk allows it to be a good wall with Poison Heal and can trick its Toxic Orb to poison something else and potentially steal its Lefties. I'm not even close to naming all the other possibilities.

To circumvent Rhydon's healing problem, it can run Regenerator. Running Poison Heal isn't as great of an idea as on something like Mew because Eviolite gives it pretty decent bulk, which you probably want. To get around its 4x weaknesses, you could run either Water Absorb or Sap Sipper (Storm Drain is useless imo, since Water Absorb heals you instead of buffing a useless stat on Rhydon). If you want to boost its Special Defense a bit, you can opt for Sand Stream.

Then again, I probably either didn't cover every point or covered some incorrectly, because I'm relatively new to this metagame :P

 

[Klang]

Well, Mew has access to every TM and HM in the game, and when coupled with Protean or Sheer Force, can become a powerhouse fast with the most unpredictable movepool on the face of the earth. Plus, its decent bulk allows it to be a good wall with Poison Heal and can trick its Toxic Orb to poison something else and potentially steal its Lefties. I'm not even close to naming all the other possibilities.

To circumvent Rhydon's healing problem, it can run Regenerator. Running Poison Heal isn't as great of an idea as on something like Mew because Eviolite gives it pretty decent bulk, which you probably want. To get around its 4x weaknesses, you could run either Water Absorb or Sap Sipper (Storm Drain is useless imo, since Water Absorb heals you instead of buffing a useless stat on Rhydon). If you want to boost its Special Defense a bit, you can opt for Sand Stream.

Then again, I probably either didn't cover every point or covered some incorrectly, because I'm relatively new to this metagame :P

Only Protean really fixes the issue that psychic is a bad typing, and as a Protean user it has a serious lack of power compared to other mons such as Hydreigon that can wall break much better and have movepools that are almost as good. Defensive sets like the support movepool, but psychic offers really poor defensive synergy. There is no poke that can run every set that Mew can run, but for every set mew can run something else can do it better. It's a jack of all trades master of none, having only unpredictability as its advantage.

Also, Rhydon can only fix one of its glaring issues. Regenerator is probably the best option, but then it still has the 4x weaknesses problem along with the fact that sand isn't patching up it's special defence, making it frail on the special side. If it could run all of those abilities at once it would be good, but it has to pick one and that's not enough to patch up every flaw it has.

Keep in mind I'm not saying they suck, just that A or B might be better for them.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Alright, time for my response to this whole shabazz(yes that's a word now, chrome doesn't even spell check it wtf) of Mew and rhydon supposedly not deserving their spots:

1) Mew: Mew is single handedly one of the biggest threats you could see in team preview, now of course your probably not scared of it because lol it's only got a cap of 100 in everything amiright? but what your not thinking about is this thing has literally every move you can get through tutor and HM/TM, plus the moves it learns by events and level up since the 3rd gen (since gen 2 and gen 1 are non transferable or else we'd have to fear the mighty lovely kiss nidoking) that's one wide ass movepool. Now combine that with the fact that it can pick almost ANY ability it wants to and you get one hell of a threat. And let me say, it's not a master of none, it's a master of a lot, mew's movepool lets it abuse many abilities many pokemon can't due to their bulk, speed, movepool or offensive presence, mews got a pretty decent/good speed tier, it's got fantastic bulk (100/100/100 is really underrated bulk imo) and while it may not be the strongest, it has moves such as nasty plot, and it's huge range of coverage moves to help it out. And I know there's this complaint of the psychic typing but honestly, the psychic typing is only legitimately considered decent or bad in standard because of the omnipresent u turn, which is less common here, but also, it's a false truth, psychic may not be as offensively good as ice or dragon or as defensively good as steel, it's still not a bad typing at all, there really is no evidence to suggest why psychic is so horrid, heck if you want good examples of the psychic type used defensively and offensively really well take a look at dexys-d and deoxys-a in gen 5 in OU and ubers respectively, one got banned from OU and the other was pretty freakin good in ubers, now I know these are mainly due to stats but, seriously, when you have the right tools, any typing can be magnificent, and imo, mew does have the right tools to succeed. It's prankster sets are unmatched due to it's plethora of options that other pokemon simply can't put together, it's protean sets have the excellent amount of coverage to abuse it with (hydrei doesn't out class it, where did you get that from???! hydrei is stronger off the bat but has a lot less coverage, no NP, isn't as bulky NOR as speedy (which is very important for a protean user)), sheer force sets use it's excellent coverage to abuse hard hitting attacks back to back to avoid being countered. It's no guard set are really nice considering the amount of moves it gets and especially the amount of them are good but inaccurate. There are more but I don't even have time to touch upon them, like mews pivot PH, regenerator, natural cure and sitrus/lum harvest sets. Here are just a sample of some of the sets it can use and abuse:

Baton Mew:
Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Rock Polish/Any boosting move
- Nasty Plot/Swords Dance/Any good boosting move
- Taunt/Roost

Stall breaker mew:
Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Knock Off

Offensive Protean Mew:
Mew @ Life Orb/Any Plate
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 HP / 252 SpA
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot / Roost / Coverage
- Dazzling Gleam / Aura Sphere/ Fire Blast
- Earth Power / Dark Pulse / Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball / Psychic / Surf

Defensive Protean Mew:
Mew @ Leftovers/Any Plate
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Def or SDef/ 252 HP / 4 SpA
Bold or Calm Nature
- Scald
- Roost
- Nasty Plot / Giga Drain / Flamethrower / Will-o-Wisp
- Ice Beam / Aura Sphere

2) Rhydon: Rhydon is legitimately the best mixed wall in the tier, yes it has weaknesses, so do other walls, deal with it. It can use sand stream to buff it's special defense to a simply crazy point, thick fat to handle many ice attackers like weavile, light metal to avoid low kick creeping pokemon, sap sipper or dry skin/water absorb to deal with 1 of it's weaknesses or one healing ability to well, heal it. Rhydon can counter one thing, then literally change it's spread and ability and counter a whole new set of things, it's really customizable and easy to use, and it reliably gets up rocks, and it's no push over either with you know, it's amazing attack for a wall (and you guys thought CB ferrothorn was a bitch), it actually has a nice typing to avoid stuff like electrics with fire coverage and stuff, overall it's just really freakin neat. It's mold breaker sets also are a pretty nice counter to non WoW levitran and a damn good check to WoW variants. Overall rhydon can fit easily on any team, supports the team with great walling capabillity and has the embodiment of AAA in it: easy and very viable customizabillity.
If you still don't think rhydon is the tits here are some calcs for sand don and some other variants:
252 Atk Choice Band Gale Wings Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 186-220 (44.9 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Poison Heal/Gale Wings Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 136-162 (32.8 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Refrigerate Weavile Return vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Eviolite Thick Fat Rhydon: 156-186 (37.6 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Refrigerate Kyurem-B Return vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Eviolite Thick Fat Rhydon: 218-260 (52.6 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (still a 2HKO but the fact that you can run this little investment and just slap thick fat on this thing and take ~60% from SE adamant 252 EV choice band refridgerate kyu-b is pretty impressive I must say)
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 180-212 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 182-216 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 12.9% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 212 SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Sand: 232-276 (56 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (still a 2HKO, but you have to remember, although minimal investment, this isa 75 BP STAB 4x SE giga drain coming from a 122 base special attack mega venusaur and it's still doing like ~67% and this is even a variant lacking calm nature and 252 investment, talk about bulk)
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 212 SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Sand: 153-181 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 184-218 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 44+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 165-195 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and more, you get the point, this is one tank.

 

[Klang]

2) Rhydon: Rhydon is legitimately the best mixed wall in the tier, yes it has weaknesses, so do other walls, deal with it. It can use sand stream to buff it's special defense to a simply crazy point, thick fat to handle many ice attackers like weavile, light metal to avoid low kick creeping pokemon, sap sipper or dry skin/water absorb to deal with 1 of it's weaknesses or one healing ability to well, heal it. Rhydon can counter one thing, then literally change it's spread and ability and counter a whole new set of things, it's really customizable and easy to use, and it reliably gets up rocks, and it's no push over either with you know, it's amazing attack for a wall (and you guys thought CB ferrothorn was a bitch), it actually has a nice typing to avoid stuff like electrics with fire coverage and stuff, overall it's just really freakin neat. It's mold breaker sets also are a pretty nice counter to non WoW levitran and a damn good check to WoW variants. Overall rhydon can fit easily on any team, supports the team with great walling capabillity and has the embodiment of AAA in it: easy and very viable customizabillity.

You're missing the fact that Rhydon has only gains only one single ability. It can't run sand stream, sap sipper, water absorb, regenerator, thick fat, and mold breaker all at once, and in the end, it's an RU mon + an ability. One ability is not enough to make up for all the shortcomings it has, and with any ability bar Regenerator, how is it healing off all those hits you calced? Hazards make this even worse, 1 or 2 layers of spikes or just a bit of prior damage and Rhydon easily bites the dust. And if you run Regenerator (Which I think is easily its only viable ability and what might merit it A-B rank) you still have to deal with the fact that any special attacker can run hidden power grass and completely bypass Rhydon and physical ones can usually find a water or grass move in their coverage moves (Waterfall dnite, for example, was very common in standard last gen).

Mew

Just because it can use something doesn't mean it should use it. Protean is really the only ability it can use which other pokes can't do better and it's good at it, I'll give you that, but other sets such as your stall breaker for example are easily outclassed by things that share those moves and can use a superior typing/stats:

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4HP
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Scald

Mew can in fact use a ton of stuff as you say, but apart from protean, what does it do that other pokes can't?

EDIT: Meant Waterfall over Aqua Tail

 

[Monte Cristo]

You're missing the fact that Rhydon has only gains only one single ability. It can't run sand stream, sap sipper, water absorb, regenerator, thick fat, and mold breaker all at once, and in the end, it's an RU mon + an ability. One ability is not enough to make up for all the shortcomings it has, and with any ability bar Regenerator, how is it healing off all those hits you calced? Hazards make this even worse, 1 or 2 layers of spikes or just a bit of prior damage and Rhydon easily bites the dust. And if you run Regenerator (Which I think is easily its only viable ability and what might merit it A-B rank) you still have to deal with the fact that any special attacker can run hidden power grass and completely bypass Rhydon and physical ones can usually find a water or grass move in their coverage moves (Aqua Tail dnite, for example, is very common in standard).



Just because it can use something doesn't mean it should use it. Protean is really the only ability it can use which other pokes can't do better and it's good at it, I'll give you that, but other sets such as your stall breaker for example are easily outclassed by things that share those moves and can use a superior typing/stats:

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4HP
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Scald

Mew can in fact use a ton of stuff as you say, but apart from protean, what does it do that other pokes can't?

Yeah you're not getting any of my points, saying aqua tail dnite is common in standard even though lol no it has like 0.2% usage at best there, and most of your claims just seem really weak and your honestly just ignoring my arguement and making what I personally see as worse and worse points, for instance your comparison to hydreigon was already really bad, and now your comparison to jellicent is even worse, sorry I just really don't have the patience to try and argue with someone who is not going to even try and understand any of my points and making up things I never said (I never said rhydon could have all of those at once, I just said it could have any one of those things and it's so good withthat, it's called versatility). Usually I like a logical debate but sorry I just can't bare to go through explaining the same arguement for 25 pages because I know it's going to get ignored, no offense man, but seriously, at least try to comprehend what I'm trying to say, if my post was really all that uncomprehendable I'll rewrite it but I'm not going further into this, it just seems like arguig with a bot more than discussing with a human, no offense meant.

 

[Klang]

Yeah you're not getting any of my points, saying aqua tail dnite is common in standard even though lol no it has like 0.2% usage at best there, and most of your claims just seem really weak and your honestly just ignoring my arguement and making what I personally see as worse and worse points, for instance your comparison to hydreigon was already really bad, and now your comparison to jellicent is even worse, sorry I just really don't have the patience to try and argue with someone who is not going to even try and understand any of my points and making up things I never said (I never said rhydon could have all of those at once, I just said it could have any one of those things and it's so good withthat, it's called versatility). Usually I like a logical debate but sorry I just can't bare to go through explaining the same arguement for 25 pages because I know it's going to get ignored, no offense man, but seriously, at least try to comprehend what I'm trying to say, if my post was really all that uncomprehendable I'll rewrite it but I'm not going further into this, it just seems like arguig with a bot more than discussing with a human, no offense meant.

What you need to try to realize here is, by comparing Hydreigon / Jellicent and Mew, I'm comparing the role they have using the ability, not the entire poke and what it can do. The Hydreigon comparison might have been a bit off, but the Jellicent one is spot-on to demonstrate how you're not understanding this at all. Why use Mew for this specific set when you can use Jellicent, which has a far better typing for the job?

You haven't touched upon anything I said for Rhydon either. (Except for the Aqua Tail thing, meant Waterfall sorry) Please explain how you expect it to wall without regenerator when it has absolutely no means of recovery. It will check what it's meant to check once and then fall since it can't heal itself. That's a giant issue for any wall right there.

 

[AWailOfATail]

I think what Kl4ng is trying to say here is sure, they're versatile, but other things outshine it in those categories. All I can see is using it on those teams for the surprise factor. I mean, I can see Rhydon and Mew both being S rank (not that I agree with them (I do for Rhydon though)), since that's why this started in the first place, but it's mostly due to their versitality. Is Mew Protean or Prankster or Poison Heal? Is Rhydon a Sand Streamer or a Regenerator or a Thick Fat? I agree, Mew should probably be A rank (although Rhydon should be S imo) because 100 base attacks are kinda low compared to other mons, but it's just so damn flexible you can run it on nearly every team.

 

[Monte Cristo]

I think what Kl4ng is trying to say here is sure, they're versatile, but other things outshine it in those categories. All I can see is using it on those teams for the surprise factor. I mean, I can see Rhydon and Mew both being S rank (not that I agree with them (I do for Rhydon though)), since that's why this started in the first place, but it's mostly due to their versitality. Is Mew Protean or Prankster or Poison Heal? Is Rhydon a Sand Streamer or a Regenerator or a Thick Fat? I agree, Mew should probably be A rank (although Rhydon should be S imo) because 100 base attacks are kinda low compared to other mons, but it's just so damn flexible you can run it on nearly every team.

That's the thing, flexibility. Jellicent can't run like every freakin' set known to man (stretching it but just showing my point) to bluff, nor can it preform exactly how mew can, in most case I would say it's worse, being a prankster is all about movepool and defenses, which mew has the best of, lets compare shall we?:
*good stats are bolded, mediocre or bad are italicised

Mew- Stats:100/100/100/100/100/100
Type: Psychic- Notable Resistances/Immunities: Fighting(scrappy fighting), Itself, -Notable Weaknesses: Bug(uturn), Dark(knock off), Ghost
Notable Movepool (prankster):Knock Off, Baton Pass, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Roost(Softboiled too but same thing), Taunt, Trick, Roar/Phazing(yes it's still minus priority but it goes before other phazers which is very important), Pain Split, Stealth Rock, Light Screen, Reflect, Set up moves (to pair with BP and stuff), Foul Play, Toxic, Hypnosis(it's inaccurate but you gotta give credit where credit for prank sleep is due), Magic Coat, Icy Wind, Heal Bell,Defensive boosting moves like amnesia and barrier, Night shade, useful damaging moves to hit common annoying pokemon like flamethrower/aura sphere for ferro and probably more that I missed

Jellicent- Stats: 100/60/70/85/105/60
Type: Ghost/Water-Notable Resistances/Immunities: Ice(most ice attackers smash through it due to second STAB/coverage and it's low phys. def or just plain overpower it), Water, Normal(mediocrity), Bug(uturn), Fighting(scrappy makes it mediocre), Trapping(Which is near non existent due to our banlist), Fire, Steel(mediocre), -Notable Weaknesses: Dark(knock off), Ghost, Grass(most bulky grasses can hard pivot with little to no fear, unlike ghosts to mew, where mew can scare them due to knock off), Electric(bolt beam is way too good for this to be ignored)
Notable Movepool: Recover, STAB scald, Taunt, Night Shade, Trick, W-o-W, Toxic, Pain Split, Magic Coat, Icy Wind

All the moves Mew has that Jellicent doesn't: Knock Off, Baton Pass, Thunder Wave, Phazing, Stealth rock, Screens, Set up moves, Foul play, hypnosis, Heal Bell,and a wide range of damaging moves

Yeah, those are some pretty important moves, that and, jellicents physical bulk compared to mew is kind of horrid, it's special attack & attack are not as strong so breaking subs as easily, and it's speed tier is horrid compared to mews, which mews gives it a nice breathing room to the point where it could run investment to speed creep max base 80s and stuff with only 96 speed EVs. And lets not even get to the type, you complained about this so much when evidently, psychic isn't that bad. Jellicents typing gives it a weakness to bolt beam, volt switch, bulky grass(s) and knock off While mew just has a weakness to u-turn and knock off mainly, and lets take at resistances, shall we not? Scrappy fighting is as important as ever to cover now that every fighting can get it, and while jelli due to it's neutrality and weak physical defense can't take on that well, mew can due to it's manual resistance instead of immunity that is bypassed by scrappy. and while mews only other notable resistance is itself(typing wise), most psychic special attackers are actually quite fearsome and mew serves as a simply splendid check to them being resistant to their main 2 moves/coverage: psychic and fighting, and most of the "serperior" resistances jellicent has are pretty useless. Normal is mediocre due to scrappy and most normals having moves/2nd STABs to nail jellicent on it's physical defense and hit it hard, like PH staraptor for example. Trapping is non existent except for magnet pull which nobody but steels care about regardless lol. Fire, uturn and water are all pretty good/decent but when you consider how rare water is barring scald and how unseen fire is barring random coverage, you see how mediocre they truly are, steel is mediocre because it's really not such a great defensive typing, and most ice types just crush the poor ol pringles can. And don't even get me started on the movepool, Knock Off gen 6 is freakin' amazing, Bpass is splendid, a priority non damaging uturn? hell yes, thunder wave is very crucial as priority twave is deadly for many sweepers, physical and special alike. Phazing is key because elevated phazing means you can avoid phazing. Stealth Rock has defined metagames since gen 4 so its's only natural that priority version of it is fucking awesome. Not to mention it can baton pass or slow sweep with set up or set up screens for the whole team, foul play is amazing to deal with physical attackers ala non STAB sableye. And while hypnosis never hits lol, it is pranskter sleep and credit has to be given there, and pranskter heal bell as a last troll move is pretty awesome for reviving stuff like burnt kyurem B or toxiced rhydon, and the damaging moves mew gets are simply splendid to break subs. Overall, I would consider mew as a prankster, or a bulky PH, or even a protean user, any day of the week while making a team, it's simply just so versatile and good, it's hard not to use.