Almost Any Ability XY (Suspect Over: Weavile banned, Keldeo Stays)

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Can we do a suspect test on Fur Coat, once we get an actual ladder to play on? I feel like the only thing which might be OP with it, is Chancy (with Fur Coat and Eviolite, its defense would be only slightly lower than its special defense), and we've already got complex bans for Shedinja and Smeargle, so why the hell not test it on everything else? In a world where things like GW Staraptor, PH Snorlax, Refrigerate Cube, and other buffed physical attackers are available, physically frail Pokemon are liable to buckle under the sheer offensive pressure. Fur Coat would provide a new check to all physical attackers that lack Mold Breaker, (a strong ability without Fur Coat, a fantastic one with it). It could even give some special walls/tanks a brand new lease on life with great mixed defenses.

What else would be very threatening with Fur Coat? What abusers might make it ban worthy?

 

[Monte Cristo]

Can we do a suspect test on Fur Coat, once we get an actual ladder to play on? I feel like the only thing which might be OP with it, is Chancy (with Fur Coat and Eviolite, its defense would be only slightly lower than its special defense), and we've already got complex bans for Shedinja and Smeargle, so why the hell not test it on everything else? In a world where things like GW Staraptor, PH Snorlax, Refrigerate Cube, and other buffed physical attackers are available, physically frail Pokemon are liable to buckle under the sheer offensive pressure. Fur Coat would provide a new check to all physical attackers that lack Mold Breaker, (a strong ability without Fur Coat, a fantastic one with it). It could even give some special walls/tanks a brand new lease on life with great mixed defenses.

What else would be very threatening with Fur Coat? What abusers might make it ban worthy?

During the 'beta' stages of this, before this ever had a thread and everything, My friends and I had a minimalist banlist. THen a shitstorm of crazy mini ubers came on. So after banning the obvious broken stuff like HP PP, Shadow tag etc. We were dabbling in and out with fur coat, but really, all it did was make team building impossible for physical attackers. You either had to be a utility mon like garchomp or a mold breaker mon ... like garchomp. Or fur coat's presence would deem it too stupid to use, the meta got way overloaded on special attackers and we decided it'd be best for a healthy meta to wipe the slate of fur coat clean.

I'm working on implementing it but I gotta implement some other stuff and launch my server live :p

 

[Monte Cristo]

I'm sorry to double post mods, but this is important, doesn't fit into my last post and is update worthy: This metagame is now playable on my server!
And that allows me to do 1 thing: test stuff if stuff is broken
My first and probably going to be last for a while test is: Kyurem B
Kyurem B has multiple overpowering sets to the meta: tinted lens, PH, REFRIDGERATE (which is the main causing one for it's test), pranksub kyube etc., overall it just seems OP, so join us as we test this 700 BST beast in my serv:
(put into the URL bar on a newtab and click enter, PS links are a bit messed up as they take you to the homepage) http://24.22.226.179.psim.us/

 

[Adrian Marin]

Cobalion may have potential with a Regenerator + Assault Vest set:

Cobalion @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]


With this spread, it is able to live Kyurem-B's attacks pretty decently (including LO Earth Power) and 2HKO it with Flash Cannon.

0 SpA Cobalion Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-B: 170-204 (37.4 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
129 SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. +1 252 HP / 56+ SpD Cobalion: 161-192 (41.7 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Cobalion: 118-140 (30.5 - 36.2%) -- 54% chance to 3HKO

Kyurem-B is so dangerous, it's a good idea to carry multiple checks/counters

I really wanted to test this metagame in Oiawesome's server, but it doesn't seem to be working again.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Cobalion may have potential with a Regenerator + Assault Vest set:

Cobalion @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 226 Def / 30 SDef
Careful Nature
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]


With this spread, it is able to live Kyurem-B's attacks pretty decently (including LO Earth Power) and 2HKO it with Flash Cannon.

0 SpA Cobalion Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-B: 170-204 (37.4 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
129 SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. +1 252 HP / 56+ SpD Cobalion: 161-192 (41.7 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Cobalion: 118-140 (30.5 - 36.2%) -- 54% chance to 3HKO

Kyurem-B is so dangerous, it's a good idea to carry multiple checks/counters

I really wanted to test this metagame in Oiawesome's server, but it doesn't seem to be working again.

That seems like an interesting set, also, overnight my computer may have overheated, gone into sleep mode or other things, and we know the difference between our timezones soooo, it may have just been overnight, I'll be sure to check it out

 

[Magolor]

Welp I couldn't think of a single good user of Pixiliate. The closest I got to was this.

Bad Gimmick

Clefable @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Return
- Knock Off
- filler

My initial idea was to have an Azumarill esque Belly Drum set using Quick Attack but being a normal type with an extensive movepool of almost everything Game Freak thought it would be smart to not give it the move anyway. So basically this is just a set that brings the pain onto defensive teams. Belly Drum brings Celf's attack to pretty high Levels and then Pixiliated Return hurts crap. Knock Off gives pretty good coverage and last slot is filler.

Yeah this sort of highlights the issue of how similar the current fairies are (Granbull is the only other pokemon capable of doing this but it doesn't even have any of the moves capable of doing it (Not even Swords Dance -.-'))

 

[Mulan15262]

Welp I couldn't think of a single good user of Pixiliate. The closest I got to was this.

Bad Gimmick

Clefable @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Return
- Knock Off
- filler

My initial idea was to have an Azumarill esque Belly Drum set using Quick Attack but being a normal type with an extensive movepool of almost everything Game Freak thought it would be smart to not give it the move anyway. So basically this is just a set that brings the pain onto defensive teams. Belly Drum brings Celf's attack to pretty high Levels and then Pixiliated Return hurts crap. Knock Off gives pretty good coverage and last slot is filler.

Yeah this sort of highlights the issue of how similar the current fairies are (Granbull is the only other pokemon capable of doing this but it doesn't even have any of the moves capable of doing it (Not even Swords Dance -.-'))

Sure you want to do that off of base 70 atttack and base 60 speed? Wouldn't a more offensive Fairy-type like Granbull be better?

 

[Emmy2]

Some things I thought of:

Magic Guard Volcarona - Although it still dies in 1 hit to a burned Terrakion's Stone Edge, it no longer needs to fear Stealth Rock, Spikes, or Toxic. Can also now use Life Orb without recoil.
Prankster Venomoth - Have you seen its support movepool? Can run your choice of Sleep Powder, Baton Pass + several boost moves including Quiver Dance/sub, Sub/Disable, Tailwind, Defog, Toxic Spikes, Roost among other things; and while it doesn't have the best bulk, it's still better than nearly every other prankster.
Tinted Lens Keldeo - Since its movepool is garbage and regular ability is useless on it, this would help it out a ton. Now its stabs have almost perfect coverage (except for Water Absorb Jellicent) due to nothing else existing with a 4x resistance to both Water and Fighting.
Flash Fire Genesect - one of the few things which normally has a 4x weakness to fire and no other weakness that could actually abuse Flash Fire if it gets hit with a Fire move
Download Kyurem/Kyurem-B - a mixed attacker with an actual useful ability for a mixed attacker
No Guard Rotom-W - No more Hydro Miss, Will-o-miss, and can now also use Thunder for additional power. Can also be useful on the other Rotoms, similar reason.
No Guard Deoxys-S - Can use Zap Cannon, Dynamic Punch, Focus Blast; is likely to be far better than the ability it already has.
Protean Azelf - Similar idea to Protean Mew, only with more speed and power.
Protean Hydreigon - Abuseable movepool with power.
Toxic Heal Umbreon - A much better wall..
Adaptability Rhyperior - Godlike offensive coverage with its stabs, now even better.

Magic Bounce, Flame Body, Rough Skin would also be nice on something with better typing and bulk than the things that already get these abilities.

Since hazards/Defog are likely to also exist, giving Defiant/Competitive to something that normally has a semi-garbage ability would be nice here as well. Terrakion, Latios, Manaphy, Infernape come to mind, along with some of the things I listed above.

Anything which is already good but has a semi-garbage ability can be useful here with a better ability.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Protean Azelf - Similar idea to Protean Mew, only with more speed and power.

Sorry for singling this out, no offense meant or anything but, the point of why mew is the premier protean user and why protean mew is so good is because of it's pivoting ability, it's bulk and it's 2nd in the game biggest movepool, it can also go on the physical side with things like uturn, knock off. It can also go set up with any set up move it pleases to, so factoring in the pseudo STAB boost from protean you get:
SD/Bulk Up Sets:
120 BP Sucker Punch
180 BP Superpower
112.5 BP elemental punches
97.5 consistent BP knock offs (146.25 BP factoring in if it knocks off an item!)
375 BP explosion
112.5 BP Drain Punch
and much more

we could go on for NP sets but I think you get the point, in terms of raw power that's not what mew is competing for, it's competing in a balance of bulk, power, speed, and movepool.

 

[Monte Cristo]

sorry for the double post but this doesn't really fit my previous post at all: Ok my port forwarding somehow went down (thanks comcast) and because of all this BS this router has been putting me through, I'm getting a new router to host!.... On friday, so if I get this router working from wednesday & thursday, great! if not we'll all just have to wait to play it again for a bit, theorymon is very much appreciated though, I love discussion ^_^

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Sturdy Smeargle. Boost accuracy of Dark Void with Zoom Lens, or use Shell Smash/Geomancy with an Herb.

 

[Monte Cristo]

UPDATE: My server is now working, I did not get a new router but my port forwarding is enabled, go have fun gais :]

 

[NickFusi0n]

May I ask why exactly is Archeops banned? I understand Slaking and Regigigas, any other ability that the ones they already have would make them instantly Ubers, but why Archeops? His attack and speed stats nearly match those of Thundurus-T, who isn't banned. I just don't understand it.

 

[Pikachuun]

May I ask why exactly is Archeops banned? I understand Slaking and Regigigas, any other ability that the ones they already have would make them instantly Ubers, but why Archeops? His attack and speed stats nearly match those of Thundurus-T, who isn't banned. I just don't understand it.

STAB Magic Guard Head Smash with Life Orb.

 

[NickFusi0n]

STAB Magic Guard Head Smash with Life Orb.

Ah, I get it now. Thanks.

 

[An Incognito Tuxedo]

Is the server still not working?
I would love to try this out.

 

[Wimblesaurus]

STAB Magic Guard Head Smash with Life Orb.

It probably has more to do with Archeops being a 140/112/110 pokemon with great stabs and good coverage that suddenly has access to technician, gale wings, download, aerilate, protean, fur coat, motor drive, water absorb and no guard, and that lost its crippling vanilla ability.

I mean, dude could just complex ban MG Archeops if that was the only problem.

 

[Pikachuun]

It probably has more to do with Archeops being a 140/112/110 pokemon with great stabs and good coverage that suddenly has access to technician, gale wings, download, aerilate, protean, fur coat, motor drive, water absorb and no guard, and that lost its crippling vanilla ability.

I mean, dude could just complex ban MG Archeops if that was the only problem.

I was just stating one of the reasons; I didn't think of those :P

 

[Monte Cristo]

Alright guys we got nomminated for OMotM! Be sure to let out your votes on this special voting segment!- http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...month-month-9-averagemons-m10-voting.3481155/

sorry but for now my server is now down for now due to general server updating crap
Also,

Kyurem Black is now banned

Kyurem-B was way too good in this metagame. It's poison heal sets were amazing pivots and some of the best in the tier, it's scarf/banded adaptability or tinted lens outrages were way too destructive and etc. But it's one killer was the refridgerate set with return that busted so much teams it wasn't even funny, the day kyurem black gets a 133 before STAB-STAB physical ice move with 0 drawbacks is the day it gets banned, end of story.

Options after the ban:

Refridgerate Kyurem-N
Kyurem N isn't any kyurem B when it comes to power, but it's STAB hyper voice plus refridgerate coupled with draco meteor is insane, it's really hard to wall.

Refridgerate Weavile
Weavile was actually very plausable pre-ban but it just got looked over when you saw the 700 BST dragon of doom. Weavile is actually really cool, fridge quick attack revenges some threats like timid noivern, knock off is really nice especially with STAB, and low kick is awesome or those heavy mons like kyurem-n, but to top it off, refridgerate return packs a punch that is unforgettable. It can go on a choice item rouute, SD sweeping route, revenge killer, or simply 4 attacks life orb.

I will be revamping the viability rankings hard, now with + and - rankings ,so it is VERY important to let out your opinion, but for now, here are some "conversation starters", I'll implement changes when we have some conversation going:

Florges to S rank
Florges is one of the best revenge killers in AAA XY due to it's unique combo of it's bulk, power, STAB, access to prankster with a combo of moves such as nature power (special espeed now for pranksters) and copycat. It's capabilities are top tier and should not be ignored

Zapdos to A or A+ Rank
Zapdos is excellant, it has lots of power coupled with it's new selection of abilities, great bulk, unique typing, and a lot to abuse everything it has with. It can go on the defog/twave/roost prankster route (but that's mainly mews thing) adaptabillity route, protean route to abuse the fact that it has a crap STAB movepool regularly (no flying ones that are special) and Protean HP ice/fire hurt. And other shennanigans

Genesect for A+ Rank
Genesect is one of the most solid Protean users out there next to mew. it's wide coverage of special and physical moves like espeed, blaze kick, giga drain, flamethrower, tbolt, RP, ice beam etc. make it a pain in the ass to predict and deal with. It can also go with a no guard zap cannon set that smashes most would be counters and hcecks due to para.

 

[Sewa]

I think Metagross is a great candidate to stop all those Aerilate/Pixilate/Refrigerate shenanigans.

Resisting their stronger attacks and sporting other great resistances and high defenses, Regenerator Metagross with Assault Vest is a great pivot.
It scares Fairy/Ice pokemon with STAB supereffective moves and can nab a +1 which makes it threatening offensively too. How can you see a set like this one? Evs and Nature might get adjusted, I just wanted to be sure to avoid the KO from LO Kyurem with Hyper Voice + Earth Power.

Metagross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 120 SDef / 136 HP
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch

May I also present you one of the most gimmick teams of the metagame?

Endeavor team

Roserade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 HP
Timid Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Sleep Powder
- Petal Blizzard
- Sludge Bomb

Swinub @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Protect
- Hail

Shroomish @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 1
- Spore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Taillow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Aerilate
Level: 1
Serious Nature
- Endeavor
- Quick Attack
- Protect
- Defog

Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch

 

[Mulan15262]

Better FEAR gimmic team

Roselia @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Nature Power
- Aromatherapy

Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off
- Earthquake

Aron @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk / -124 Def / -44 SDef
Impish Nature
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Protect
- Magnet Rise

Cubone @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk / -84 Def / -124 SDef
Impish Nature
- Endeavor
- Bone Rush
- Toxic
- Protect

Phanpy @ Focus Sash
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Protect
- Toxic

Pineco @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

Roselia and Hippopotas are there to get up entry hazards and sandstorm. Hippopotas has Eviolite to maximize its bulk and enable it to keep coming in. Pineco has Focus Sash and Prankster to always get in 2 entry hazards. I am using it as a back-up hazard setter. The other 3 are for utilizing FEAR, with Phanpy able to utilize it against Ghost-types.

 

[TalkTakesTime]

This is now also playable on Joim's Lab

 

[Monte Cristo]

This is now also playable on Joim's Lab

there goes the 1/3 niche(s) my server had, next thing you know joims lab will take away my precious /zarel secret command er, I mean, thanks man! (nah really, good job n stuff, I hope this makes it so that my meta is more easily playable!)

 

[TalkTakesTime]

there goes the 1/3 niche(s) my server had, next thing you know joims lab will take away my precious /zarel secret command er, I mean, thanks man! (nah really, good job n stuff, I hope this makes it so that my meta is more easily playable!)

hue I'll also steal all the other metas that only you have :> tbf though, more exposure is always a good thing for OMs

 

[Monte Cristo]

hue I'll also steal all the other metas that only you have :> tbf though, more exposure is always a good thing for OMs

true especially if my dexsearch on my server wasn't broken goddamn PoS command