I'm pretty sure ceruledge doesn't even get knock off???? why are you even running no item?? oh poltergeist. just run a normal type! or something
-
The leaders of this forum are dhelmise, Giagantic, and KaenSoul. The moderators of this forum are berry, Chessking345, April, kenn, Ransei, and Tea Guzzler.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
AAA Almost Any Ability
- Thread starter LordBox
- Start date
also there are mons with just high defense. when paired with fire resistance, means ceruledge can't do much. especially if they also can outspeed. which even if they cannot at first, they will if they run speed boost. like garganacl. also hazards. hazards are run so very much, and they can completely harm ceruledge a lot if you don't run a hazard remover.
I thought the same thing at first lol. Its cause of Poltergeist. Also, next time you post, group your posts together instead of making three separate ones.
You also need to consider other triage mons such as Kommo-o with Belly Drum Drain Punch and Enamorus-T with Calm Mind Draining Kiss shenanigans.
i mean for kommo o dazzling still works, as do ghost types, and some other options. draining kiss can be annoying but steel types can neuter enamorus. also yeah you made a good point with grouping the post together. my main point is, if aerealite epseed dragonite can exist. if primoridal sea archuladon can exist, why not triage? it just seems somewhat dumb with some of the bigger threats in AAA. belly drum can be countered if you simply attack them during their belly drum. they can't have focus sash, so eq or a strong psychic move if they have air balloon would simply work. earhquake is also rather popular too. and hazards, especially toxic spikes, can ruin most of those people's days.
The problem with Dazzling is that it's a niche ability that's only really used to counter another ability that isn't even guaranteed to be on every team, and is pretty much useless outside of that. As for Ghost types, most of them don't even reliably beat Kommo-o. Kommo-o can one shot defensive Gholdengo with Shadow Claw at +6 and only takes 50% from Make it Rain, meaning with a Sitrus Berry it can even just setup in front of some Gholdengo sets. Gengar isn't guaranteed to 75% unboosted either, and if that's your only counterplay, then you're screwed when the Kommo-o lives the hit, kills with Shadow Claw, then wins with Drain Punch against everything else. Ceruledge can stop Kommo-o from setting up in front of it but is useless once Kommo-o eats the Sitrus Berry. Pecharunt is a good counter with Unaware though (not sure what that mon usually runs though).
Corviknight can't really do anything to it since most Triage Enamorus have Iron Defense or Mystical Fire. Offensive Gholdengo does not like taking even unboosted Earth Power/Mystical Fire and defensive Gholdengo loses if Enamorus gets a free turn of setup. Hisuian Goodra is a pretty good counter but that mon isn't very easy to fit on teams.
Aerilate Dragonite struggles to break through a lot of common physical walls like Corviknight, Deoxys-D, and Mandibuzz. Physical Triage attackers like Ceruledge and Kommo-o don't have as much of an issue with them (depending on the set the walls are running). I'm not sure what PrimSea Archaludon has to do with this, but common mons like Swampert can easily handle it, and most special breakers like Latios and Walking Wake can outspeed and threaten it with an OHKO.
The thing with just attacking the mons is they all have some combination of bulk, good typing, and the ability to force things out that lets them set up in front of a lot of different mons. Kommo-o can easily setup in front of more defensive mons like Swampert and Empoleon and force things out with an unboosted Drain Punch, while Ceruledge's few defensive answers let it force switches and setup for free. In a situation like a Roaring Moon vs an unboosted Triage Kommo-o, you could predict the Belly Drum and use Dragon Claw/Outrage, but they could also predict your attack and just kill with Drain Punch, and you've done nothing to get rid of the threat in front of you. Hazards can help, yes, but most teams don't have Toxic Spikes since there are few viable users of the move and most of them would prefer to use other moves.
This is exactly my feeling. When you have a dazzling mon, Triage becomes trivial. But in the other 2/3 of your games where you don't see triage, one of your very valuable 6 ability slots is basically useless
I was going to use this to post a team I made, but I'm not 100% sure about the instructions. Where do I type :Pokemon: to get the sprites and how do I add them to a message. Thanks
I definitely didn't forget to mention this sooner, but Tranquility will be stepping away from council for some time due to irl becoming more busy. Good luck, and see you soon!
You just type them in your reply and they will automatically be replaced with the sprites when you hit "Post reply".
If I type
Code:
:charizard:
Code:
:sv/charizard:
and 
respectively.
Now that Triage is banned, the council will hold a vote on whether or not to unban the following Pokemon:
Magearna
Iron Hands
Hariyama
Ursaluna
Results will probably be up tomorrow
Magearna Iron Hands Hariyama UrsalunaResults will probably be up tomorrow
| Isaiah | QT | DFM | Atha | LordBox | Ivar57 | Result | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ursaluna | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | 6-0 UNBAN |
| Iron Hands | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | 6-0 UNBAN |
| Magearna | UNBAN | BAN | UNBAN | BAN | BAN | BAN | 2-4 KEEP BANNED |
| Hariyama | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | 6-0 UNBAN |
Ursaluna, Iron Hands, and Hariyama are unbanned! Tagging Kris for implementation.
Last edited:
Let's keep the opening short and simple. Few mons that I think are somewhat problematic:
This feels the most broken to me. The only reason I didn't get sweep by this thing most of the time is because ladder just spams the bad CB set. Counterplays to this thing are extremely limited both defensively and offensively. If we are talking about the standard SD/Mighty Cleave/Psycho Cut/Sacred Sword set, the only mons that can safely switch in and handle this thing are Fluffy Corv and Defensive Ghold, the former is ok but the latter is pretty bad rn. Offensive counter plays are also limited as well. Base 124 speed makes this mon one of the fastest breakers in the tier, allowing it to scare off a lot of mons and get a safe sd on the switch. Revenge killing it is also not an easy task as the most common scarfer in the tier - azelf - need some chip to put Iron Boulder in range of knock off. Decent spd stats also allow this mon to tank a hit or two as well.
This mon has been really good for a while now and to some it might even cross the line. Even though Chien Pao is not as problematic as Iron Boulder, it certainly has tools to break open a lot of defensive core. The blazing fast speed and great stabs in ice and dark has made this thing one of the biggest threats in the tier ever since pre-home. The reason why I'm bringing it up now is that a few meta trend looks to be beneficial for it and this mon might get out of hand if more people catch on to it. First one is that physdef regen mana is way less common than before. It used to be the Chien Pao switch in for a lot of teams to scout for crunch then switch to a bulky dark resist like Great Tusk. Now since it has to face a lot of competition with Swampert, less and less people are putting it on their teams. Second meta trend is that fluffy corv is rising in popularity in order to better deal with threats like CB moon, Iron Boulder, Scrappy Tusk,... As of result of these, spamming Icicle Crash with Chien Pao seems pretty free most games and you can easily get 2-3 kos if you play careful with it.
This feels the most broken to me. The only reason I didn't get sweep by this thing most of the time is because ladder just spams the bad CB set. Counterplays to this thing are extremely limited both defensively and offensively. If we are talking about the standard SD/Mighty Cleave/Psycho Cut/Sacred Sword set, the only mons that can safely switch in and handle this thing are Fluffy Corv and Defensive Ghold, the former is ok but the latter is pretty bad rn. Offensive counter plays are also limited as well. Base 124 speed makes this mon one of the fastest breakers in the tier, allowing it to scare off a lot of mons and get a safe sd on the switch. Revenge killing it is also not an easy task as the most common scarfer in the tier - azelf - need some chip to put Iron Boulder in range of knock off. Decent spd stats also allow this mon to tank a hit or two as well.
This mon has been really good for a while now and to some it might even cross the line. Even though Chien Pao is not as problematic as Iron Boulder, it certainly has tools to break open a lot of defensive core. The blazing fast speed and great stabs in ice and dark has made this thing one of the biggest threats in the tier ever since pre-home. The reason why I'm bringing it up now is that a few meta trend looks to be beneficial for it and this mon might get out of hand if more people catch on to it. First one is that physdef regen mana is way less common than before. It used to be the Chien Pao switch in for a lot of teams to scout for crunch then switch to a bulky dark resist like Great Tusk. Now since it has to face a lot of competition with Swampert, less and less people are putting it on their teams. Second meta trend is that fluffy corv is rising in popularity in order to better deal with threats like CB moon, Iron Boulder, Scrappy Tusk,... As of result of these, spamming Icicle Crash with Chien Pao seems pretty free most games and you can easily get 2-3 kos if you play careful with it.
Last edited:
Yeah I stated earlier that Chien Pao is definitely a huge threat and now with Triage banned, you cant beat it with Ceruledge anymore.Let's keep the opening short and simple. Few mons that I think are somewhat problematic:
This feels the most broken to me. The only reason I didn't get sweep by this thing most of the time is because ladder just spams the bad CB set. Counterplays to this thing are extremely limited both defensively and offensively. If we are talking about the standard SD/Mighty Cleave/Psycho Cut/Sacred Sword set, the only mons that can safely switch in and handle this thing are Fluffy Corv and Defensive Ghold, the former is ok but the latter is pretty bad rn. Offensive counter plays are also limited as well. Base 124 speed makes this mon one of the fastest breakers in the tier, allowing it to scare off a lot of mons and get a safe sd on the switch. Revenge killing it is also not an easy task as the most common scarfer in the tier - azelf - need some chip to put Iron Boulder in range of knock off. Decent spd stats also allow this mon to tank a hit or two as well.
This mon has been really good for a while now and to some it might even cross the line. Even though Chien Pao is not as problematic as Iron Boulder, it certainly has tools to break open a lot of defensive core. The blazing fast speed and great stabs in ice and dark has made this thing one of the biggest threats in the tier ever since pre-home. The reason why I'm bringing it up now is that a few meta trend looks to be beneficial for it and this mon might get out of hand if more people catch on to it. First one is that physdef regen mana is way less common than before. It used to be the Chien Pao switch in for a lot of teams to scout for crunch then switch to a bulky dark resist like Great Tusk. Now since it has to face a lot of competition with Swampert, less and less people are putting it on their teams. Second meta trend is that fluffy corv is rising in popularity in order to better deal with threats like CB moon, Iron Boulder, Scrappy Tusk,... As of result of these, spamming Icicle Crash with Chien Pao seems pretty free most games and you can easily get 2-3 kos if you play careful with it.
i've only used the band set until now and as you said, outside of fluffy corvi and gholdengo,nothing else can take its sharpness boosted attacks wellLet's keep the opening short and simple. Few mons that I think are somewhat problematic:
This feels the most broken to me. The only reason I didn't get sweep by this thing most of the time is because ladder just spams the bad CB set. Counterplays to this thing are extremely limited both defensively and offensively. If we are talking about the standard SD/Mighty Cleave/Psycho Cut/Sacred Sword set, the only mons that can safely switch in and handle this thing are Fluffy Corv and Defensive Ghold, the former is ok but the latter is pretty bad rn. Offensive counter plays are also limited as well. Base 124 speed makes this mon one of the fastest breakers in the tier, allowing it to scare off a lot of mons and get a safe sd on the switch. Revenge killing it is also not an easy task as the most common scarfer in the tier - azelf - need some chip to put Iron Boulder in range of knock off. Decent spd stats also allow this mon to tank a hit or two as well.
This mon has been really good for a while now and to some it might even cross the line. Even though Chien Pao is not as problematic as Iron Boulder, it certainly has tools to break open a lot of defensive core. The blazing fast speed and great stabs in ice and dark has made this thing one of the biggest threats in the tier ever since pre-home. The reason why I'm bringing it up now is that a few meta trend looks to be beneficial for it and this mon might get out of hand if more people catch on to it. First one is that physdef regen mana is way less common than before. It used to be the Chien Pao switch in for a lot of teams to scout for crunch then switch to a bulky dark resist like Great Tusk. Now since it has to face a lot of competition with Swampert, less and less people are putting it on their teams. Second meta trend is that fluffy corv is rising in popularity in order to better deal with threats like CB moon, Iron Boulder, Scrappy Tusk,... As of result of these, spamming Icicle Crash with Chien Pao seems pretty free most games and you can easily get 2-3 kos if you play careful with it.
I've been theorymoning a bit with the new unbans, mainly Iron Hands. Here are some sets I've come up with.
@ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wild Charge
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Volt Switch
Due to its insane bulk, I believe Iron Hands can be quite a good Regenvest user. My only concern with this set is Ground Types such as Tusk or Swamp.
@ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Supercell Slam
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Now there's no punishment for missing Supercell Slam (other than the fact that you missed a 95% accurate move). You could use Wild Charge instead.
:Iron Hands @ Leftovers
Ability: Un:aware
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Fluffy seems like it could be good here too.
@ Assault Vest Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wild Charge
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Volt Switch
Due to its insane bulk, I believe Iron Hands can be quite a good Regenvest user. My only concern with this set is Ground Types such as Tusk or Swamp.
@ Life Orb Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Supercell Slam
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Now there's no punishment for missing Supercell Slam (other than the fact that you missed a 95% accurate move). You could use Wild Charge instead.
:Iron Hands @ Leftovers
Ability: Un:aware
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Fluffy seems like it could be good here too.
I was messing around in a new tier and this game happened:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-2038140426
I'm probably missing something obvious, but I calculated the damage on and from the Zapdos and it took: less then min calc moonblast, did more than max but timid thunderbolt, and was faster than tusk.
Probably me playing a game for a year and missing something.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-2038140426
I'm probably missing something obvious, but I calculated the damage on and from the Zapdos and it took: less then min calc moonblast, did more than max but timid thunderbolt, and was faster than tusk.
Probably me playing a game for a year and missing something.
In the future, ask about stuff like this in the Help Room on PS so you can get direct, live help.
That being said, the Zapdos is max HP max Speed. It looks like the damage calc just doesn't give the special attack boost from Hadron Engine to non-grounded Pokemon, which looks like a bug.
Thank you. I was thinking about Hadron Engine shenanigans with it not being grounded. I will remember to post questions like this elsewhere.
Small post incoming, but after the Triage ban and the freeing of Iron Hands and Ursaluna I've been messing around with Trick Room a bit.
Its by no means perfect, but it's my first iteration of it, and I have hadsomehow a lot of success with it on ladder (I know ladder's generally hot garbage but I beat some known players on there so...)
I shall continue to experiment, but I dare say that Trick Room might be back on the menu, although I probably wouldn't recommend using it.
Thats all folks!
Its by no means perfect, but it's my first iteration of it, and I have had
I shall continue to experiment, but I dare say that Trick Room might be back on the menu, although I probably wouldn't recommend using it.
Thats all folks!
Doesn't sample number 4 have triage, which is now banned? Saw this was updated yesterday, so?Sample Teams!
Last updated: 01/14/2024
*Click the Pokemon icons to get the paste of the team!
*Sample Submissions are ALWAYS open
View attachment 592107 by Kinetic
View attachment 592109 by Giagantic
View attachment 592110 by Betticus IV
View attachment 592111 by cat
View attachment 592112 by UT
View attachment 592114 by Isaiah
View attachment 592113 by Quantum Tesseract
Wandering Spirit Gholdengo Balance by Isaiah
CB Scrappy Great Tusk + Adaptability Garchomp Bulky Offense by Atha
Motor Drive Gholdengo Balance by Tranquility
Water Absorb Sandy Shocks Balance by Giagantic
"Payload Pon" Bulky Offense by UT
Dual Screens Hyper Offense by UT
Adaptability Roaring Moon Balance by Betticus IV
"Payload Pon" + PrimSea Walking Wake Bulky Offense by Tbolt
Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao + Toxic Debris Great Tusk Balance by Osake
SFLO Thundurus Bulky Offense by LordBox
- ChainChomp Balance team by ghostlike
- double Dark bulky offense by Atha
- Screens HO by Isaiah
- Nasty Plot Thundurus Balance by cjw405
- Swords Dance Zarude + MGLO Heatran Balance by astralydia
- Double Explosion Hyper Offense by ghostlike
View attachment 536580 View attachment 536580 View attachment 536580 View attachment 536580 View attachment 536580 View attachment 536580 - Literally any of these by LordBox
- Desolate Land Ceruledge Balance by cumps
- MGLO Talonflame + IronPress Earth Eater Sandy Shocks by Grim_Blazer
- MGLO Slither Wing Bulky Offense by LordBox
- Sticky Web Offense by Atha
- Hadron Engine Rotom-Wash + MGLO Lucario Balance by LordBox
- MGLO Lucario + Well-Baked Body Kingambit Balance by Alexender
- Triple Weather Quadruple Bird Bulky Offense by UT
- DD Aerilate Dragonite + CB Sword of Ruin Meowscarada Offense by Osake
- Fluffy Dondozo + Regenerator Ting-Lu Balance by Isaiah
- Tinted Gardevoir Balance by Jrdn
- UT's Triple Weather Balance
- DallasFortWorth's Double Weather Bulky Offense
- Isaiah's webs + Atha removed Iron Thorns because it's awful and replaced it with Baxcalibur
- Atha's MGLO Gholdengo + 3A Iron Moth Balance
- LO Sandy Shocks Balance by LordBox
- Isaiah's Tablets of Ruin Polteageist Hazard Stack
- Jrdn's Scrappy Iron Hands Balance
- TheCoastsOfToast's CB Primordial Sea Barraskwda Balance
Atha Ground Spam Balance
Tea Guzzler Fire Spam Offense
BugGoBrrrrrr Eject Button Offense
They'll remove it soon, or tag it as outdated.
Tragically, I am currently stuck and dissatisfied with a lot of my NDAAA concepts so I decided to take a look at SVAAA again. Surprisingly, no one has made a post about Pecharunt so I suppose I might as well make a quick post.
This thing is probably decent. Unfortunately it doesn't help too much with premier cancer mons like the Dark-types as well as Gouging being sketchy but still does pretty alright. It's a decent Fighting check though dont rely it too much without something like Intimidate, Unaware is pretty nice for checking stuff like Dragonite, Gouging (kind of) and random Ogerpon-C's people cope and claim is better than Iron Boulder, as well as the new kid of Iron Hands now that is around on the block. EE allows it to check GTusk and the new Ursaluna very well while also helping for a few mons that might click EQ into you on occasion like DNite/Gouging but those matchups are still pretty sketchy. Corrosion can pretty much guarantee progress since MGuard just seems to be on the downturn and make you far less passive. Mon is really fat so you just about run any defensive ability and you'll be alright though. Fluffy/Intimidate makes you a super fat Fighting-type check, GSurge allows extra recovery while dampening stray EQs, WBB can kind of check Gouging as they might be wary of EE and Ace users in shambles and you can even run Itemless to troll Ceruledge if you really want. Saw some people think it would be broken (somehow) but it's far too passive and Dark-types are way too OP for it ever be immovable. Some people I saw piss on it for doing nothing to steels, but just like, pivot lol?
Oh yeah there's some other new mons I guess I'll go over them as well.
Ass lol and pretty self-explanatory. Last time I saw this used outside of Triage was probably pre-home as a RegenVest (that's how bad it was, for people who look at pre-home SVAAA with a rose-tinted lens, because I know they exist)
Only people who freak out over Ursaluna are the same people who thought it'd be Ubers in a week, lo and behold it's in UU. It is kind of strong? Issue is its typing and speed makes it hard to get on field and can rarely sweep. Surge Surfer sets are weaker with more checks like Unaware Deo-D, lot more Scarfers able to easily revenge it around as well as being pretty fishy into EE stuff. MGLO sets don't seem particularly worth it compared to other breakers due to aforementioned drawbacks. Mold Breaker might be ok because it nullifies being fished by EE Gholdengo/Pecharunt as well as ignoring some annoying stuff like Unaware but its pretty weak at that point and can still be outmanoeuvred. TR makes it better but that's basically a meme archetype so it doesn't say much.
Biggest drop. I don't think it'll be broken, or even that good. Main issue with offensive/bulky setup sets is that they are just inherently fishy into stuff like Unaware Deo-D/Pecha. You're already slow, and while fat, aren't that hard to revenge either and not even being guaranteed to make good progress sounds pretty awful. I could see some bulky immunity sets being useful on like BO that can salvage its defensive utility so it's less fishy maybe. You could try running those all-out offensive sets but those suffer from Great Tusk existing and its obvious speed issues. Regen sets are ok, I doubt max physdef Regen is great due to 1AC meaning you need to sacrifice your RegenVest as well as lacking much utility unlike Tusk. RegenVest might be ok with it performing better on special side somewhat but suffers immensely from Great Tusk existing to sap momentum easily however it does hold the benefit of being Manaphy, but without the Physdef investment needed, able to scout Chien-Pao while retaining utility as a fat spd mon, compressing decent utility.
Extra thoughts: Chien-Pao/Gouging Fire might need to be suspected in the long run. Chien Pao has been controversial since the beginning of time and I'd rather we address it properly. Iron Hands might help at least a bit but I doubt it does help that much. Honestly a lot of the samples just get super dunked on by Chien-Pao LOL. More and more it has become a bit easier to deal with Chien-Pao by simply outplaying it and trying to juggle resists + scouts but it certainly has quite the impact on the teambuilder. Gouging is also pretty just straight up cancer, and lacks great checks. If the resurgence of WBB Corv from low ladder menace set to viable wasn't a sign of its terror. Outside of the birds it really isn't fun, Unaware Deo-D or Fat Tusk can cope but it really isn't secure at all due to Gouging's raw power and bulk that allows it win the matchup with slight chip, or just straight up if they come in on the switch and it's at full.
This thing is probably decent. Unfortunately it doesn't help too much with premier cancer mons like the Dark-types as well as Gouging being sketchy but still does pretty alright. It's a decent Fighting check though dont rely it too much without something like Intimidate, Unaware is pretty nice for checking stuff like Dragonite, Gouging (kind of) and random Ogerpon-C's people cope and claim is better than Iron Boulder, as well as the new kid of Iron Hands now that is around on the block. EE allows it to check GTusk and the new Ursaluna very well while also helping for a few mons that might click EQ into you on occasion like DNite/Gouging but those matchups are still pretty sketchy. Corrosion can pretty much guarantee progress since MGuard just seems to be on the downturn and make you far less passive. Mon is really fat so you just about run any defensive ability and you'll be alright though. Fluffy/Intimidate makes you a super fat Fighting-type check, GSurge allows extra recovery while dampening stray EQs, WBB can kind of check Gouging as they might be wary of EE and Ace users in shambles and you can even run Itemless to troll Ceruledge if you really want. Saw some people think it would be broken (somehow) but it's far too passive and Dark-types are way too OP for it ever be immovable. Some people I saw piss on it for doing nothing to steels, but just like, pivot lol?
Oh yeah there's some other new mons I guess I'll go over them as well.
Ass lol and pretty self-explanatory. Last time I saw this used outside of Triage was probably pre-home as a RegenVest (that's how bad it was, for people who look at pre-home SVAAA with a rose-tinted lens, because I know they exist)
Only people who freak out over Ursaluna are the same people who thought it'd be Ubers in a week, lo and behold it's in UU. It is kind of strong? Issue is its typing and speed makes it hard to get on field and can rarely sweep. Surge Surfer sets are weaker with more checks like Unaware Deo-D, lot more Scarfers able to easily revenge it around as well as being pretty fishy into EE stuff. MGLO sets don't seem particularly worth it compared to other breakers due to aforementioned drawbacks. Mold Breaker might be ok because it nullifies being fished by EE Gholdengo/Pecharunt as well as ignoring some annoying stuff like Unaware but its pretty weak at that point and can still be outmanoeuvred. TR makes it better but that's basically a meme archetype so it doesn't say much.
Biggest drop. I don't think it'll be broken, or even that good. Main issue with offensive/bulky setup sets is that they are just inherently fishy into stuff like Unaware Deo-D/Pecha. You're already slow, and while fat, aren't that hard to revenge either and not even being guaranteed to make good progress sounds pretty awful. I could see some bulky immunity sets being useful on like BO that can salvage its defensive utility so it's less fishy maybe. You could try running those all-out offensive sets but those suffer from Great Tusk existing and its obvious speed issues. Regen sets are ok, I doubt max physdef Regen is great due to 1AC meaning you need to sacrifice your RegenVest as well as lacking much utility unlike Tusk. RegenVest might be ok with it performing better on special side somewhat but suffers immensely from Great Tusk existing to sap momentum easily however it does hold the benefit of being Manaphy, but without the Physdef investment needed, able to scout Chien-Pao while retaining utility as a fat spd mon, compressing decent utility.
Extra thoughts: Chien-Pao/Gouging Fire might need to be suspected in the long run. Chien Pao has been controversial since the beginning of time and I'd rather we address it properly. Iron Hands might help at least a bit but I doubt it does help that much. Honestly a lot of the samples just get super dunked on by Chien-Pao LOL. More and more it has become a bit easier to deal with Chien-Pao by simply outplaying it and trying to juggle resists + scouts but it certainly has quite the impact on the teambuilder. Gouging is also pretty just straight up cancer, and lacks great checks. If the resurgence of WBB Corv from low ladder menace set to viable wasn't a sign of its terror. Outside of the birds it really isn't fun, Unaware Deo-D or Fat Tusk can cope but it really isn't secure at all due to Gouging's raw power and bulk that allows it win the matchup with slight chip, or just straight up if they come in on the switch and it's at full.
Got number 1 in AAA with various versions of a certain team I made, this post will show these versions off.
The Team aka "Copy of Insanity": 
Gouging Fire @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Tail
- Morning Sun
Bulky 3A Morning Sun Gouging Fire is a great defensive check to various threats such as common Iron Moths, and is really quite bulky and hits hard regardless. This team went through many variations of Gouging Fire from Serene Grace Lava Plume to DesoLand Lava Plume both of which aim to deal with defensive Great Tusks and spread burns. a set up set could work but Dragon Tail is really appreciated as a means of phazing and harassing the opposing teams when they have WBB Corviknight / Skarmory.
Pecharunt @ Black Sludge
Ability: Well-Baked Body
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Foul Play
- Parting Shot
- Recover
Similar to most entries I went through many iterations with regards to Pecharunt (it got the most iterations by far). This team began as a way to figuring out Pecharunt's qualities and viability and it ended up being Well-Baked Body which was the best but variants including Corrosion, Wandering Spirit, Earth Eater, Unaware, and so forth all work well on it. This includes sets that run double stabs + Nasty Plot, single stab + Toxic and Nasty Plot or like my current version which runs Foul Play for set up sweepers and Night Shade for consistent damage on most targets aside from the uncommon Meloetta.
Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Calm Mind
Standard post-triage Primarina IMO aside from maybe regen sets, water/fairy is an amazing typing and despite lacking reliable recovery Primarina makes up for it with lefties + Draining Kiss and can easily act as a late game sweeper. Other variants, though all moves remain the same, includes some immunity or Unaware for Gouging Fire MU. Theoretically it could run something else besides Energy Ball but the prevalence of Swampert / Manaphy make Energy Ball lowkey mandatory, meaning Primarina is walled heavily by Iron Moth and Heatran if either carries Desolate Land.
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Delta Stream
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
Very standard set for Corviknight aside from the atypical Delta Stream which isn't all that common (obviously not unheard of) which lets it better handle rocks and in tandem with another team member lets you diffuse weathers fairly easily.
Jirachi @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Psychic Noise
- Charge Beam
- Grass Knot
- U-turn
This slot went through many iterations, and they all did it differently, the two most prominent choices was Iron Crown who had better damage but was inferior in most other regards and Jirachi whom is running Charge Beam to ease passivity issues alongside Grass Knot for Swampert and Psychic Noise for denying heals. Main reason to run either is that they check Latios. Another member of this slot that also was used heavily was Assault Vest Kingambit which similarly dealt with Latios and psychics in general but if a Deoxys-speed was running fighting coverage it was a dire scenario.
Other sets I used include the following:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Weather Ball
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
And finally my favourite set, one which forced several opponents to CT me to handle it (they began running Ice Beam Swampert...) This set is quite nasty, handling much of the common meta choices threatening 2 and 3hko's to many prominent answers whether that be Corviknight, Swampert, etc... Weather Ball 3hko's most Great Tusks and SR is there for when they have an answer and to apply pressure in a different form.
Team as a whole is fairly straightforward, but it isn't without struggles, a good stall team can prove a challenge and wear it down over time, and Gouging Fire is a tough MU which you have to play smart, Primarina is not a confirmed answer even as poor positioning can result in it losing, same with Pecharunt.
Another variant of the team I used was here: https://pokepast.es/f0e61a6bdda0531c
This one opts out of using Gouging Fire and runs AV mixed defensive Incineroar which is an underrated pick from my perspective.
Metagame is fairly stable, I think going forward the most contentious issue will be Gouging Fire. Iron Hands hasn't impressed me one bit in the least and with the popularity of many psychics I doubt this will change in the short term. Ursaluna was a bit better but honestly it is at best a sidegrade to Bloodmoon, at worse a downgrade.
Gouging Fire @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Tail
- Morning Sun
Bulky 3A Morning Sun Gouging Fire is a great defensive check to various threats such as common Iron Moths, and is really quite bulky and hits hard regardless. This team went through many variations of Gouging Fire from Serene Grace Lava Plume to DesoLand Lava Plume both of which aim to deal with defensive Great Tusks and spread burns. a set up set could work but Dragon Tail is really appreciated as a means of phazing and harassing the opposing teams when they have WBB Corviknight / Skarmory.
Pecharunt @ Black Sludge
Ability: Well-Baked Body
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Foul Play
- Parting Shot
- Recover
Similar to most entries I went through many iterations with regards to Pecharunt (it got the most iterations by far). This team began as a way to figuring out Pecharunt's qualities and viability and it ended up being Well-Baked Body which was the best but variants including Corrosion, Wandering Spirit, Earth Eater, Unaware, and so forth all work well on it. This includes sets that run double stabs + Nasty Plot, single stab + Toxic and Nasty Plot or like my current version which runs Foul Play for set up sweepers and Night Shade for consistent damage on most targets aside from the uncommon Meloetta.
Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Calm Mind
Standard post-triage Primarina IMO aside from maybe regen sets, water/fairy is an amazing typing and despite lacking reliable recovery Primarina makes up for it with lefties + Draining Kiss and can easily act as a late game sweeper. Other variants, though all moves remain the same, includes some immunity or Unaware for Gouging Fire MU. Theoretically it could run something else besides Energy Ball but the prevalence of Swampert / Manaphy make Energy Ball lowkey mandatory, meaning Primarina is walled heavily by Iron Moth and Heatran if either carries Desolate Land.
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Delta Stream
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
Very standard set for Corviknight aside from the atypical Delta Stream which isn't all that common (obviously not unheard of) which lets it better handle rocks and in tandem with another team member lets you diffuse weathers fairly easily.
Jirachi @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Psychic Noise
- Charge Beam
- Grass Knot
- U-turn
This slot went through many iterations, and they all did it differently, the two most prominent choices was Iron Crown who had better damage but was inferior in most other regards and Jirachi whom is running Charge Beam to ease passivity issues alongside Grass Knot for Swampert and Psychic Noise for denying heals. Main reason to run either is that they check Latios. Another member of this slot that also was used heavily was Assault Vest Kingambit which similarly dealt with Latios and psychics in general but if a Deoxys-speed was running fighting coverage it was a dire scenario.
Other sets I used include the following:
Kingambit @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Grass Knot
- Low Kick
Iron Crown @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Psychic Noise
- Tachyon Cutter
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast / Future Sight
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Grass Knot
- Low Kick
Iron Crown @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Psychic Noise
- Tachyon Cutter
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast / Future Sight
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Weather Ball
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
And finally my favourite set, one which forced several opponents to CT me to handle it (they began running Ice Beam Swampert...) This set is quite nasty, handling much of the common meta choices threatening 2 and 3hko's to many prominent answers whether that be Corviknight, Swampert, etc... Weather Ball 3hko's most Great Tusks and SR is there for when they have an answer and to apply pressure in a different form.
Team as a whole is fairly straightforward, but it isn't without struggles, a good stall team can prove a challenge and wear it down over time, and Gouging Fire is a tough MU which you have to play smart, Primarina is not a confirmed answer even as poor positioning can result in it losing, same with Pecharunt.
Another variant of the team I used was here: https://pokepast.es/f0e61a6bdda0531c
This one opts out of using Gouging Fire and runs AV mixed defensive Incineroar which is an underrated pick from my perspective.
Metagame is fairly stable, I think going forward the most contentious issue will be Gouging Fire. Iron Hands hasn't impressed me one bit in the least and with the popularity of many psychics I doubt this will change in the short term. Ursaluna was a bit better but honestly it is at best a sidegrade to Bloodmoon, at worse a downgrade.
Post about the two biggest issues in AAA, from my perspective!
So since I am done laddering for the foreseeable future I want to address the 2 elements within the metagame that I personally find egregious in nature and need to be addressed in some form.
Gouging Fire is frankly busted, and honestly entirely quick ban worthy. This is a Pokemon whose only real good answers are Well Baked Body Corviknight / Skarmory and the former is forced to run Iron Defense if it doesn't get the boost and the Gouging has Dragon Claw/Outrage as it can feasibly boost to infinity and then brute force through it. There are 2 common sets with one anti-meta set, the common ones being Magic Guard with Flare Blitz / EQ or Dragon Claw / Dragon Dance / Morning Sun or Desolate Land with Flare Blitz or Heat Crash / EQ or Dragon Claw or Dragon Tail / Dragon Dance or Dragon Tail / Morning Sun. Both of these versions can be built for speed or bulk (this ignores the fact that Gouging is like Great Tusk with usuable Special Defense even without bulk investment). The anti-meta set is simply Mold Breaker which allows it to bypass answers more readily whilst sacrificing power and longevity.
Gouging Fire is just flat out broken though, practically no answers and the ability to easily sweep with great overall bulk means you have a little leeway in regards to answering it's power.
The other Pokemon, Chien-Pao is less broken then Gouging Fire but I think it is even more unhealthy in nature rather then just straight up busted. Reason? Simple, Chien-Pao despite facing common answers in Corviknight is able to actually muscle by them through Flinch hax. This is ignoring it's blatant power and great offensive typing. This thing has remained in the metagame for a long time despite it's contentious nature and I think it's about time it received a suspect in order for the community to decide as the council is clearly too divided or at least was in the past. My change of opinion regarding Chien-Pao came as a result of a battle in which the opposing Chien-Pao broke through a defensive Primarina AND Corviknight through simple flinches, this isn't healthy sadly, if it weren't for Icicile crash this mon would probably be fine but the fact that it isn't effected by Fluffy just makes it so much worse.
TLDR; Suspect Chien-Pao, Quick Ban Gouging Fire!
Here is a replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-2040528144
So since I am done laddering for the foreseeable future I want to address the 2 elements within the metagame that I personally find egregious in nature and need to be addressed in some form.
Gouging Fire is just flat out broken though, practically no answers and the ability to easily sweep with great overall bulk means you have a little leeway in regards to answering it's power.
TLDR; Suspect Chien-Pao, Quick Ban Gouging Fire!
Here is a replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-2040528144
Last edited:
I would certainly agree with you on Chien-Pao but I'm not so sure about Gouging Fire and I think it has more counters then you say it has.Post about the two biggest issues in AAA, from my perspective!
So since I am done laddering for the foreseeable future I want to address the 2 elements within the metagame that I personally find egregious in nature and need to be addressed in some form.
Gouging Fire is frankly busted, and honestly entirely quick ban worthy. This is a Pokemon whose only real good answers are Well Baked Body Corviknight / Skarmory and the former is forced to run Iron Defense if it doesn't get the boost and the Gouging has Dragon Claw/Outrage as it can feasibly boost to infinity and then brute force through it. There are 2 common sets with one anti-meta set, the common ones being Magic Guard with Flare Blitz / EQ or Dragon Claw / Dragon Dance / Morning Sun or Desolate Land with Flare Blitz or Heat Crash / EQ or Dragon Claw or Dragon Tail / Dragon Dance or Dragon Tail / Morning Sun. Both of these versions can be built for speed or bulk (this ignores the fact that Gouging is like Great Tusk with usuable Special Defense even without bulk investment). The anti-meta set is simply Mold Breaker which allows it to bypass answers more readily whilst sacrificing power and longevity.
Gouging Fire is just flat out broken though, practically no answers and the ability to easily sweep with great overall bulk means you have a little leeway in regards to answering it's power.
The other Pokemon, Chien-Pao is less broken then Gouging Fire but I think it is even more unhealthy in nature rather then just straight up busted. Reason? Simple, Chien-Pao despite facing common answers in Corviknight is able to actually muscle by them through Flinch hax. This is ignoring it's blatant power and great offensive typing. This thing has remained in the metagame for a long time despite it's contentious nature and I think it's about time it received a suspect in order for the community to decide as the council is clearly too divided or at least was in the past. My change of opinion regarding Chien-Pao came as a result of a battle in which the opposing Chien-Pao broke through a defensive Primarina AND Corviknight through simple flinches, this isn't healthy sadly, if it weren't for Icicile crash this mon would probably be fine but the fact that it isn't effected by Fluffy just makes it so much worse.
TLDR; Suspect Chien-Pao, Quick Ban Gouging Fire!
First off, theres WBB Corv which just totally destroys Gouging Fire. I've also been seeing a rise in Hippodown being both Unaware and Intimidate variants. Primordial Sea Archaludon is more of a check than a counter, but it can work somewhat well against it. Deoxys-D is also fairly decent against it. I think both need suspects but I don't think Gouging Fire should be quickbanned. Then again, you are #1 on the ladder so idk lol.