Metagame Alphabet Cup

[alaserdolphin]

Could you explain your reasoning for this

TL;DR: Complex bans are bad and the OM leaders (TI, Sect, Drampa, etc.) are all hecka good at their job.

I want to first give SectoniaServant huge thanks for being of assistance in our decision.

If my answer needs more elaboration, I'm hoping he'll show up and fill any blanks. That said, I'll try to summarize some of the main points:

One of the big reasons for swapping from banning the moves to banning the Pokemon is that traditionally, when Smogon (and its councils) consider a problematic Pokemon, rather than just banning the move, the mon as a whole is evaluated. Dracovish is probably one of the most black-and-white examples of this. Without access to Rend, most people would agree Dracovish could probably have stayed in OU. The problem is that logically, you're creating a complex ban.

While the pedantry of course can vary, the general agreement is that a Complex Ban is a ban that has a conditional. Back in the day, Speed Boost Blaziken in OU was considered a problem, and for good reason. While there was some debate, the larger consensus was that if Blaziken didn't have Speed Boost, it could have stayed. The knee-jerk response is "okay well let's just say that X Pokemon is legal if it doesn't use Y ability". On paper, that seems fine. The problem is that a lot of Pokemon could change in tiering if they are given conditionals. If Zacian gets only, say, Work Up and Snore, it could probably be even PU. If we allow for bans with conditionals, we can definitely "add to the variety" of plenty of formats/tiers, but then every banlist becomes all but impossible to understand, especially to new players.

When we ban a Pokemon, the conversation doesn't need to have conditionals.

The second major thing is that Morytha and I don't really have much in terms of formal experience when it comes to being Leaders of a meta. I hope it goes without saying that in PS and Smogon, people don't achieve their positions on accident. When someone like SectoniaServant or Drampa's Grandpa comes to us saying "hey this isn't the way we do things", it's important to listen to them. That's not to say that there can't be a dialogue (and I'm sure they can vouch that I, personally at least, had plenty questions of my own), but it's extremely valuable to listen to our community leaders and do what we can to grow together, rather than try to "rock the boat", so to speak.

In terms of individual bans:

Melmetal is Ubers by default*. Generally, when we bring mons down, it's because their power level doesn't scale enough to match their previous friends. If we let Melmetal keep DIB, it is still really good. Now it also gains Multi-Attack, Milk Drink, Meteor Mash (which is boosted!) and a lot of other stuff. While our personal testing has shown that Melm could probably stay without DIB, for the sake of things that were explained above, that's just not in the cards. Maybe Melm could get tested to return in the future with DIB as the meta develops, but for the sake of stability, it stays locked up.

Zygarde with Tarrows lol
All jokes aside, we felt that Zygarde with Tarrows would have essentially been the same mess it was in OU, and it also stays locked up.

Electrify is the weirder one. If you're looking for a lengthier explanation, I'm happy to provide one, but we're essentially using a lot of the reasoning that was present in STAB for banning it. Pokemon like Manectric, Jolteon, etc. just create these really messy games and it puts an unneeded strain on teambuilding.

I hope that answered everyone's questions, and if you have any more, please feel free to ask!

* Edit: Melm is OU right now but it was Ubers when the decision was made. I didn't see that change. My bad! I think the overall point still stands

 

[Dorron]

I've came up with some ideas. They might not be S+, but they are somehow interesting.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Recover
- Triple Axel
- Fishious Rend

It is surprising how Fishious Rend isn't a big problem, as not a lot of mons find it useful. DD+Recovery Fishious Rend STAB Milotic may punch holes once your opponent doesn't have Water-types. It might be a bit weak but the boost Fishious Rend gives can be enough to clean.

Some of the new threats that learn Dragon Dance. Moreover, they also recieve Dark, Dragon, Flying, Rock, Ground and Grass coverage.


Going on with D...

Doublade @ Eviolite / Anything
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dynamic Punch
- Gyro Ball
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak

I don't really know what set I should use, but Dynamic Punch seems pretty funny in a bulky Steel-type. The Ghost-Fighting coverage is fantastic and you can boost it with Swords Dance. Trick Room looks interesting in this metagame with partners like Boomburst Primarina

Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- U-turn
- Wild Charge
- Thousand Waves

Almost perfect coverage, pivot, one of the greatest Speed tiers, pivoting and ability make Tapu Koko a beast. Though it still lacks of Fairy Physical STAB, it has BoltBeam coverage to punish the Ground-types that usually try to pivot in, as HP isn't a thing this Gen.

(Space for literally any pokemon with E moveset)
Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Lmao you have Endeavor Extreme Speed on anything you want, such as Electivire, Eiscue... And that's almost it. Most of the E users are special. What a waste of letter lmao (jk you have Eruption Energy Ball Extrasensory and EXPLOSION).

Metagross @ Salac Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Behemoth Blade / Bash
- Blaze Kick / Earthquake

Haha BeheBlade goes brrrr

 

[Cuddly]

Wow. 2020 has been a pretty bad year, but surely December can’t get any wors...

Tree Satan (Exeggutor-Alola) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Harvest
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Eerie Spell
- Protect/Encore
- Synthesis/Encore

Devil Tree (Exeggutor) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Harvest
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eerie Spell
- Encore/Synthesis
- ProtectSynthesis
- Block

As far as I’m aware, the Exeggutor family are the only Pokemon capable of learning Eerie Spell+Permanent Trapping move (Block/Mean Look)+Some way of reusing a Berry (Recycle/Harvest).
In regular gameplay and in Alphabet Cup, and is unable to use such combination. Both have Block, but one lacks Eerie Spell while the other lack Recycle.

This set is designed with trapping usual checks (ie Heatran, Ferrothorn lacking Flip-Turn, ect.) to Exeggutor, and then draining the PP out of them. Since Harvest is Automatic, it can forgo Recycle and add in addition utility. Encore can speed up the process, Protect can scout out a move and have that move be Encored (Substitute can do as well, which protects you from Toxic/Knock Off), and Synthesis keeps you healthy.
Which Exeggutor you choose depends on how weak your team is to Heatran/Moltres.

 

[Hera]

Wow. 2020 has been a pretty bad year, but surely December can’t get any wors...

Tree Satan (Exeggutor-Alola) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Harvest
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Eerie Spell
- Protect/Encore
- Synthesis/Encore

Devil Tree (Exeggutor) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Harvest
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eerie Spell
- Encore/Synthesis
- ProtectSynthesis
- Block

As far as I’m aware, the Exeggutor family are the only Pokemon capable of learning Eerie Spell+Permanent Trapping move (Block/Mean Look)+Some way of reusing a Berry (Recycle/Harvest).
In regular gameplay and in Alphabet Cup, and is unable to use such combination. Both have Block, but one lacks Eerie Spell while the other lack Recycle.

This set is designed with trapping usual checks (ie Heatran, Ferrothorn lacking Flip-Turn, ect.) to Exeggutor, and then draining the PP out of them. Since Harvest is Automatic, it can forgo Recycle and add in addition utility. Encore can speed up the process, Protect can scout out a move and have that move be Encored (Substitute can do as well, which protects you from Toxic/Knock Off), and Synthesis keeps you healthy.
Which Exeggutor you choose depends on how weak your team is to Heatran/Moltres.

Allow me to take this idea one step further.


suffer (Slowbro) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Spite
- Recycle
- Rest / other utility move

While it is true only the Eggy line gets Eerie Spell + Trapping move + Recycle, there are a bunch more mons that get Spite + Trapping move + Recycle, due to Spite being an S move. Slowbro also has access to Oblivious, making it impossible to Taunt, thus allowing it to run four status moves without a drawback. The set acts as a lure for defensive mons and safely disposes of those lacking a pivot move.

 

[Don Vascus]

suffer (Slowbro) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Oblivious

uhh thats a snorlax

to make the post not empty

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Haze
- Teleport
- Soft-Boiled

unsuspecting mons are in for a scolding

 

[Dorron]

Was bored and thought more sets, still not overpowered but niche

Lurantis @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Fleur Cannon
- Superpower
- Lava Plume?

The typical but special Lurantis with Fleur Cannon hitting Dragons and Fightings with a +2 boost and the Fire coverage which is always welcome, hitting Bug-types. Might work with TR or... with TR. Lurantis is very weak, I don't really find any other viable role for it.

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin / Toxic / Rock Blast / Other

Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Other

New Eviolite users with recovery. They also set Stealth Rock (Piloswine Spikes too) and Rhydon can remove hazards with Rapid Spin. Mamoswine and Rhyperior could work as walls too.

Nihilego @ Black Sludge
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- No Retreat
- Night Daze
- Sludge Wave
- Power Gem

No Retreat isn't restricted and Nihilego is one of the only Pokemon that can use it. The general boost and its ability allows it to easily set up and sweep if the enemy team isn't prepared or its checks have been removed. The only other viable users of No Retreat are Nidoking and Necrozma, which also learn Nasty Plot.

Jolteon @ Icicle Plate Life Orb / Expert Belt / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Eruption / Earth Power

Missing Hidden Power isn't a thing, or I'd say it if Judgment existed in Gen 8. Jolteon misses its BoltBeam coverage but obtains Energy Ball to deal with Ground- and Rock-types. Eruption and Earth Power for the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn though it will be very susceptible to Dragons if running Eruption.

Aron @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 1 HP
- Endeavor
- Accelerock
- Toxic
- Rock Tomb


Ok I just came up with this while I was doing the post. This looks so funny to use in low ladder. Maybe pairing it with Shore Up Sand Spit Sandaconda works better. But Sturdy+Priority is always fun to use.

 

[shnowshner]

While we're on the subject of not letting people have fun

Ability: Pressure
- Mean Look
- Roost
- Magma Storm / Fire Spin
- Air Cutter / Protect / Whatever BS you feel like
The Leppa berry sets are cool but sorta weak to Knock Off which like everything has. Here's the skeleton of a PP staller that uses Pressure to constantly wear down the opponent thanks to Mean Look/Magma Storm. Fire Spin is an alternative if you want greater accuracy, don't care about immediate damage, and want more PP of your own. Air Cutter is an odd choice but because we don't have Leppa to rely on, I wanted a move which we could safely spam without much worry of running out of moves. With 40 BP, you don't really have to worry about Air Cutter running out any time soon, and being at 60 BP with a decent crit chance can lead to some potential damage? Protect isn't as expendable but still not bad, and being able to completely waste an opponents' turn is really valuable.

Also

Jirachi @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Jaw Lock
- Recycle
- Jungle Healing
- Iron Head
This isn't great for winning Pokemon Battles but if you want to win the psychological war I'm not sure there's competition here.

 

[GrandSmasher]

Do you hate everything and just want to watch the world burn?

If you answered at all to the question above, then these are the sets for you!




Hellspawn (Corsola-Galar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer/Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap
- Corrosive Gas

Remove item, ability, burn and heal. All in one little bulky package. Oh, and it can sit on set-up sweepers with Haze. Obnoxious.





Furry Felony (Incineroar) @ Grip Claw
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Infestation
- Protect
- Rest

Trap and sap the life out of your enemies, while staving off Toxic with Rest. Protect or Leech Seed can be replaced with Toxic.





Catlamity (Liepard) @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Copycat
- Phantom Force
- Trick
- Lunar Dance

The Copycat + semi invulnerable attack strat in 1 mon. Once your opponents normal types are dead, use Phantom Force, and because of Lagging Tail, you'll go last, on both turns of the attack. Then after you've used it once, spam Copycat and you'll move first, then the opponent, then the opponent, then you. Basically they can't hit you without priority, or a negative priority move. Trick pawns the Lagging Tail off on whoever and Prankster Lunar Dance is amazing to heal a mon back up.

 

[KamranShah]

Whats the added code to make a tournament with alphabet cup rules? Like it's gen8camomons to add camo, but I don't know what it is to add alphabet

 

[alaserdolphin]

Whats the added code to make a tournament with alphabet cup rules? Like it's gen8camomons to add camo, but I don't know what it is to add alphabet

Currently it's @@@ Alphabet Cup Move Legality
That doesn't include the banlist yet but it does include move legality including prevos

 

[OneTonCliff]

What do y'all think about flareon?

Flareon @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Flip Turn
- Facade
- Flare Blitz

It still has the same weaknesses normal flareon has sure, (e.g weakness to rocks, small hp pool) but now you get access to flip turn which when paired with fake out and the guts proc, makes it hurt pretty damn hard while pivoting so you don't have to feel locked onto flareon. Facade seems obvious, don't really see a reason to pass up a 140 BP move other than for coverage, but with flip turn you shouldn't find yourself in too many situations where you feel like you lack the options to deal with something. Flare blitz cause you're gonna be losing HP every turn anyway, might as well go all in with the damage.

 

[Akumeoy]

I'm not seeing many Silvally sets, so I'm gonna post a few.

Hide

Electric Soak (Silvally-Electric) @ Electric Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Soak
- Shore Up
- Swords Dance

Gimmicky mono-attacker. Try not to give it too many turns.

Poison Trapper (Silvally-Poison) @ Poison Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Shore Up
- Taunt
- Spikes

Trap and stall out Toxapex + other defensive mons while getting up your Spikes; the typing is just generically good & immune to Toxic. You can run this set on most formes, or switch to Thousand Waves if you care about Normal-types more than Ground immunities.

Ghost SD (Silvally-Ghost) @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Thunderous Kick
- Shadow Sneak

Ghost/Fighting coverage stays winning, so the last slot can just be priority.

Rock Rocks (Silvally-Rock) @ Rock Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Thousand Waves
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock

EdgeQuake coverage is good, so the last two slots can be whatever. I made this an offensive rocker/pivot, but you can do whatever. SD is probably good too.

Ghost Hazards (Silvally-Ghost) @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Taunt
- Parting Shot

Very dedicated hazard lead. Ghost to block Rapid Spin.

Dark Spikes (Silvally-Dark) @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Multi-Attack
- Taunt
- Spikes

This is the strongest priority Silvally can run. Taunt makes Sucker Punch more reliable, while Spikes lets you take advantage of free turns.

Water Pivot (Silvally-Water) @ Water Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot
- Defog

Silvally-Water faces a lot of competition from Suicune, so here's a set that Suicune can't replicate.

Fairy SD (Silvally-Fairy) @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Sacred Fire
- Thousand Waves
- Swords Dance

Pretty excellent coverage, not much to say here.

Grass ParaPhazer (Silvally-Grass) @ Grass Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Multi-Attack
- Roar
- Strength Sap

Mons immune to Thunder Wave mostly don't want to stay in on a Grass-type. Roar lets you get more opponents in to paralyze, while Strength Sap sees use here over more 'reliable' options since phazing refreshes your opponent's Attack stat.

Steel Lead (Silvally-Steel) @ Steel Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steel Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Sticky Web

Swap out Sticky Web for whatever hazard you want. STAB Steel Beam to KO yourself after setting hazards sounds like a good time to me.

Ground Toxic (Silvally-Ground) @ Ground Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Thousand Waves
- Shore Up
Ground STAB should threaten out most Toxic immunities, and trapping + Taunt + Recovery makes a return.

These, I think, are just barely scratching the surface; it feels like you'll ask "does this team need Silvally?" less than you'll ask "how should this team use its Silvally slot?".

 

[readytolose]

So it looks like Alphabet Cup might be the OM for December, so in preparation, I made something that might help you prep for teambuilding. It's a list of all the Pokemon in OU and UU, along with what I felt were the most relevant new moves they gain in this meta. The moves I felt were especially noteworthy additions are in bold. Note that this is not completely exhaustive, since there's a lot of good stuff below UU as well, so I might update this with those lower tier mons as well. Also, mons that are not legal in the format are not on this list. Hope you find this useful :)

EDIT: Added a section for RU mons

Demoted Ubers

Zing Zap

Zing Zap

OU

Bolt Strike, Brave Bird, Belly Drum

Haze, Corrosive Gas, Boomburst, Court Change, Clear Smog, Cotton Guard

Body Press, Bolt Strike, Belly Drum, Behemoth Bash, Behemoth Blade

Clangorous Soul, Court Change, Cotton Guard

Rapid Spin, Recover, Coil, Roar, Court Change

Dragon Energy, Dynamax Cannon, Defog, Discharge, Destiny Bond

Dragon Ascent, Dragon Darts, Dragon Energy

Extreme Speed, Diamond Storm, Dragon Dance, Explosion, Endeavor, Dragon Ascent

Flip Turn, Foul Play, Flamethrower

Gravity, Gunk Shot, Glare, Gear Grind

Haze, Healing Wish, Heal Bell, Hurricane, Hydro Pump

Leech Seed, Lava Plume, Lunar Dance

Lava Plume, Leech Seed, Lunar Dance

Moonblast, Milk Drink, Mystical Fire, Magma Storm, Metal Burst, Moongeist Beam, Multi-Attack, Meteor Beam, Mind Blown

Milk Drink, Magma Storm, Mystical Fire, Metal Burst

Magma Storm, Milk Drink, Moongeist Beam, Meteor Beam

Nasty Plot, No Retreat, Night Daze, Nature's Madness

Water Spout, Water Shuriken, Parting Shot, Will-O-Wisp

Grav Apple, Trick, Triple Axel, Thousand Waves, Rapid Spin, Recover, Rock Slide, Thunderous Kick, Gunk Shot, Toxic

Spikes, Stealth Rock, Shore Up, Steam Eruption, Strength Sap, Sticky Web, Spectral Thief, Searing Shot

Shore Up, Spikes, Sticky Web, Strength Sap, Scorching Sands, Spectral Thief

Teleport, Topsy Turvy, Toxic Spikes, Trick Room, Terrain Pulse

Triple Axel, Techno Blast, Terrain Pulse, Thunder Cage, Toxic Spikes

Techno Blast, Teleport, Trick, Thunder Wave, Thunder, Thunderbolt

Teleport, Topsy-Turvy, Trick, Trick Room

Parting Shot, Precipice Blades, Trick, Leech Seed, Thousand Waves, Teleport, Trick Room, Triple Axel, Lava Plume, Photon Geyser

Zing Zap

UUBL

Blue Flare, Bonemerang, Burn Up, Bug Buzz, Belch, Blizzard

Dragon Dance, Dragon Darts, Dragon Energy, Dragon Ascent

Glare, Heat Wave, Healing Wish

Head Smash, Healing Wish

Leech Seed, Lava Plume, V-create, Volt Switch

UU

Anchor Shot, Hex, Doom Desire, Aura Sphere, Dragon Dance, Drain Punch, Heat Wave, Diamond Storm, Disable, Avalanche, High Horsepower

Aura Sphere, Apple Acid

Flip Turn, Flamethrower, Apple Acid, Aura Sphere, Acid Spray, Focus Blast, Freezing Glare, Aromatherapy

Aura Sphere, Aurora Veil

Agility, Milk Drink, Multi-Attack, Mach Punch

Bullet Punch, Belly Drum, Power Trip, Behemoth Blade, Behemoth Bash, Parting Shot, Bulk Up, Psychic Fangs, Pyro Ball

Coil, Calm Mind, Corrosive Gas, Cosmic Power, Court Change, Cotton Guard

Haze, Corrosive Gas, Court Change, Clear Smog, Cotton Guard

Coil, Cross Chop, Court Change, Clangorous Soul

Clangorous Soul

Glare, Gunk Shot, Gear Grind

Milk Drink, Glare, Multi-Attack, Gunk Shot

Heat Wave, High Jump Kick, Hurricane, Haze

Haze, Heal Bell

Dragon Energy, High Jump Kick, Dragon Darts, Healing Wish

Lava Plume, Leech Seed, Teleport, Thousand Waves, Toxic Spikes, Trick Room, Triple Axel, Trick

Jungle Healing

Knock Off

Knock Off, Jungle Healing, Heavy Slam, High Jump Kick, Heal Bell

Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Spikes, Sticky Web, Shore Up, Spectral Thief

Lava Plume, Leech Seed, Lunar Dance

Magma Storm, Mind Blown, Mystical Fire, Milk Drink, Moongeist Beam, Meteor Beam

Swords Dance, Precipice Blades, Parting Shot, Spikes, Shore Up, Pyro Ball, Sacred Fire, Power Whip, Sticky Web, Spectral Thief, Sucker Punch, Switcheroo

Close Combat, Mach Punch, Clangorous Soul, Milk Drink

Memento, Moongeist Beam, Mind Blown, Magma Storm, Multi-Attack

Milk Drink, Magma Storm, Mind Blown, Mystical Fire, Moongeist Beam, Meteor Beam

Nasty Plot, No Retreat, Night Daze, Nature's Madness

Boomburst, Psystrike, Parting Shot, Blue Flare, Photon Geyser

Recover, Rapid Spin, Roar, Roar of Time, Rock Polish, Rising Voltage, RockSlide

Recover, Rapid Spin, Roar, Rock Polish

Recover, Rapid Spin, Roar, Rock Polish

Brave Bird, Sacred Fire, Spikes, Superpower, Shore Up, Switcheroo, Spectral Thief, Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Sunsteel Strike, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web

Shore Up, Sunsteel Strike, Storm Throw, Spikes, Spectral Thief, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Switcheroo, Sacred Fire, Strength Sap, Stone Edge

Strength Sap, Shore Up, Spectral Thief, Sacred Fire, Sticky Web, Sunsteel Strike

Shore Up, Sacred Fire, Strength Sap, Sucker Punch, Spikes, Sunsteel Strike, Spectral Thief

Trick Room, Teleport, Thousand Waves, Thunderous Kick, Trick, Triple Axel, Techno Blast

Techno Blast, Terrain Pulse, Teleport, Trick Room

Taunt, Techno Blast, Teleport, Trick

Techno Blast, Trick, Thunder Cage

Volt Switch, Vacuum Wave

V-create, Volt Switch, Volt Tackle, Vacuum Wave

RU

Stealth Rock, Spikes, Sticky Web, Apple Acid, Shore Up, Strength Sap, Autotomize, Aura Sphere, Sacred Fire, Searing Shot, Self-Destruct, Soak

Accelerock, Acrobatics

Aqua Jet, Autotomize, Attack Order, Dragon Dance, Defog

Glare, Gunk Shot

Accelerock, Aeroblast

Aqua Jet, Autotomize, Aurora Veil

Autotomize, Aurora Veil

Aura Sphere, Aeroblast, Aromatherapy

Aura Sphere, Aeroblast, Aromatherapy

Bolt Strike, Blaze Kick, Belly Drum, Brave Bird, Bullet Punch

Shore Up, Sacred Sword, Strength Sap, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Spectral Thief, Sucker Punch, Sticky Web, Belly Drum, Bolt Strike

Steam Eruption, Water Shuriken, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike, Stored Power, Shore Up, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Shell Side Arm, Will-O-Wisp, Wish, Whirlwind, Belly Drum

Bolt Strike, Body Slam, Rapid Spin, Blue Flare, Belly Drum

Bullet Punch, Belly Drum, Behemoth Blade, Behemoth Bash

Clangorous Soul, Court Change, Close Combat

Leech Seed, Lava Plume, Clangorous Soul, Lunar Dance

Clangorous Soul, Calm Mind, Core Enforcer

Stealth Rock, Steam Eruption, Sacred Fire, Crabhammer, Scald, Clangorous Soul, Scale Shot, Strength Sap, Shore Up, Sticky Web, Swords Dance

Trick Room, Gunk Shot, Triple Axel, Coil, Trick, Circle Throw, Curse, Crunch, Throat Chop, Court Change

Coil, Close Combat, Crunch

Clangorous Soul, Cosmic Power, Court Change, Cotton Guard

Gunk Shot, Coil, Close Combat, Glare, Gear Grind, Zing Zap

Dragon Dance, Drum Beating, Diamond Storm

Dragon Dance, Drum Beating, Rapid Spin, Roar, Drain Punch, Diamond Storm, Roar

Dragon Dance, Drum Beating, Defog, Doom Desire, Drain Punch, Diamond Storm

Defog, Dragon Dance, Drain Punch

Dragon Dance, Diamond Storm, Belly Drum, Bolt Strike, Bonemerang

Hypnosis, Dynamic Punch, High Jump Kick, Drain Punch, High Horsepower, Dragon Ascent

Spacial Rend, Dragon Energy, Shell Side Arm, Searing Shot, Shore Up, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Switcheroo, Dragon Breath, Defog, Dynamax Cannon

Dragon Dance, Shore Up, Shell Side Arm, Spikes, Darkest Lariat, Storm Throw, Sucker Punch, Sacred Fire, Defog, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Spectral Thief, Stone Edge, Switcheroo

Dragon Dance, Diamond Storm, Drain Punch, Darkest Lariat

Earthquake, Explosion, Eerie Spell

Extreme Speed, Wicked Blow, Explosion, Earth Power, Eruption

V-create, Thousand Waves, Trick, Fishious Rend, Flip Turn, Triple Axel, Volt Switch, Fusion Bolt

Recover, Rapid Spin, Glare, Giga Drain, Roar

Wicked Blow, Gunk Shot, Glare, Will-O-Wisp, Gyro Ball

Gravity, Gunk Shot, Gear Grind, Glare

Shore Up, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Spacial Rend, Strength Sap, Glare, Gunk Shot, Searing Shot, Spectral Thief, Switcheroo

Milk Drink, Glare, Memento, Misty Explosion, Moonblast, Gravity, Gunk Shot, Ice Beam

Anchor Shot, Agility, Fire Lash, Flare Blitz, Fishious Rend, Flip Turn, Head Smash, Healing Wish

Heat Wave, Healing Wish, Hydro Pump, Hurricane, Heal Bell

Healing Wish, Head Smash, High Jump Kick

Head Smash, Healing Wish

Ice Beam

Ice Beam

Steam Eruption, Spacial Rend, Knock Off, Searing Shot, Snipe Shot, Switcheroo, Spikes, Sparkling Aria, Stealth Rock, Storm Throw

Knock Off

Knock Off, King's Shield

Land's Wrath, Lash Out, Zing Zap, Low Kick, Zen Headbutt

Rapid Spin, Lava Plume, Recover

Rapid Spin, Leaf Blade, Liquidation, Lunar Dance, Rock Wrecker

Mach Punch, Milk Drink, Meteor Mash, Multi-Attack, Megahorn

Milk Drink, Magma Storm, Mystical Fire, Meteor Beam

Milk Drink, Belly Drum, Behemoth Bash, Behemoth Blade, Multi-Attack

Mach Punch, Meteor Mash, Multi-Attack

Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Fishious Rend, Moonblast, Magma Storm, Mystical Fire

Memento, Multi-Attack, Mach Punch

No Retreat, Nasty Plot, Nuzzle

Nasty Plot, No Retreat, Nuzzle, Night Daze

Volt Switch, V-create, Nuzzle, No Retreat, Nature's Madness

Nasty Plot, No Retreat, Night Daze

Leech Seed, Octolock, Lash Out, Zing Zap

Origin Pulse, Oblivion Wing, Overdrive, Overheat, Octolock

Spikes, Spectral Thief, Strength Sap, Parting Shot, Scald, Searing Shot, Sticky Web, Switcheroo, Psystrike

Precipice Blades, Plasma Fists, Play Rough, Psychic Fangs, Pyro Ball, Photon Geyser, Pain Split

Precipice Blades, Parting Shot, Plasma Fists, Play Rough, Psychic Fangs, Photon Geyser, Poltergeist, Pyro Ball, Power Whip, Power Trip

Parting Shot, Pain Split, Psystrike, Photon Geyser

Secret Sword, Psystrike, Photon Geyser, Searing Shot, Spikes, Spectral Thief, Shore Up, Switcheroo, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Parting Shot

Parting Shot, Psystrike, Photon Geyser

Psystrike, Photon Geyser, Parting Shot, Rapid Spin, Recover, Parabolic Charge

Recover, Rapid Spin

Recover, Rapid Spin, Roar

Recover, Rapid Spin, Roar

Shore Up, Spikes, Rapid Spin, Defog, Stealth Rock, Strength Sap, Searing Shot, Roar, Strange Steam, Discharge, Scorching Sands, Sticky Web, Spectral Thief

Recover, Rapid Spin

Rapid Spin, Court Change, Counter, Copycat, Corrosive Gas

Blue Flare, Recover, Rapid Spin, Belch, Roar

Recover, Rapid Spin, Roar

V-create, Stealth Rock, Wicked Blow, Shell Side Arm, Sacred Fire, Spectral Thief, Sticky Web, Self-Destruct, Shore Up, Switcheroo

Shore Up, Sucker Punch, Swords Dance, Sacred Sword, Sacred Fire, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Sticky Web, Sunsteel Strike, Switcheroo, Spectral Thief, Shell Side Arm

Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Storm Throw, Shore Up, Spikes, Sacred Fire, Scale Shot, Switcheroo, Spectral Thief

Shore Up, Parting Shot, Spikes, Steam Eruption, Teleport, Toxic Spikes, Strength Sap, Precipice Blades, Trick, Thunder, Thunder Wave, Triple Axel, Sacred Fire, Searing Shot, Spectral Thief, Stone Edge, Swords Dance, Sticky Web

Swords Dance, Crabhammer, Sucker Punch, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Sticky Web, Switcheroo, Sacred Fire

No Retreat, Sacred Fire, Searing Shot, Night Daze, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Shore Up, Switcheroo, Sunsteel Strike, Strength Sap

Secret Sword, Spikes, Shore Up, Strength Sap, Searing Shot, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web

(Steel) Shore Up, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sunsteel Strike, Thousand Waves, Teleport, Sticky Web, Strength Sap, Triple Axel, Secret Sword, Spectral Thief, Taunt, Sucker Punch, Superpower

Shore Up, Spikes, Flip Turn, Stealth Rock, Sucker Punch, Strength Sap, Sacred Sword, Sacred Fire, Fake Out, Fishious Rend, Fusion Bolt

Shore Up, Spikes, Sacred Fire, Searing Shot, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Spectral Thief, Strength Sap, Sucker Punch, Swords Dance

Spikes, Stealth Rock, Shore Up, Steam Eruption, Strength Sap, Sticky Web, Spectral Thief, Searing Shot

Spikes, Stealth Rock, Shore Up, Shell Side Arm, Searing Shot, Strength Sap, Sticky Web, Spectral Thief

Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sacred Fire, Sucker Punch, Shore Up, Strength Sap, Searing Shot, Spectral Thief, Strange Steam, Stone Edge

Shore Up, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Multi-Attack, Spectral Thief, Switcheroo, Sucker Punch, Metal Burst, Sticky Web

Steam Eruption, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, Searing Shot, Shore Up, Strength Sap, Sparkling Aria

Shore Up, Spikes, Sunsteel Strike, Spectral Thief, Sacred Fire, Strength Sap, Sticky Web, Stun Spore, Sucker Punch

Shore Up, Spikes, Steam Eruption, Strength Sap, Stealth Rock, Searing Shot, Sticky Web

Extreme Speed, Explosion, Swords Dance, Shore Up, Sacred Fire, Earthquake, Searing Shot, Earth Power, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Strength Sap, Sticky Web, Spectral Thief, Scorching Sands

Fire Lash, Flip Turn, Thunderous Kick, Thousand Waves, Fishious Rend, Toxic Spikes

Teleport, Trick Room, Thousand Waves, Thunder Wave, Topsy-Turvy, Toxic Spikes, Thunderous Kick, Trick

Trick, Thunderous Kick, Thousand Waves, Throat Chop, Triple Axel

Topsy-Turvy, Techno Blast, Thunder Cage, Trick, Triple Axel, Toxic Spikes, Thousand Waves

Teleport, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Taunt, Techno Blast

Topsy-Turvy, Thunder Wave, Techno Blast, Trick, Thunderbolt, Triple Axel, Toxic Spikes, Thousand Waves

Trick, Techno Blast, Thunder Cage, Toxic Spikes

Shore Up, Spikes, Bulk Up, Sacred Fire, Thousand Waves, Stealth Rock, Trick, Bolt Strike, Belly Drum, Trick Room, Strength Sap, Sticky Web, Sucker Punch

Triple Axel, Trick, Trick Room, Thunderous Kick, Thousand Waves, Taunt, Toxic Spikes

U-turn, Earthquake

Volt Switch, Volt Tackle, V-create

Blue Flare, V-create, Ice Beam, Volt Switch

Calm Mind, Glare, Giga Drain, V-create, Court Change, Vacuum Wave

Volt Switch, Glare, Gunk Shot, V-create, Origin Pulse, Overheat

V-create, Volt Switch, Vacuum Wave, Volt Tackle

Wish, King's Shield, Knock Off, Whirlwind

Zing Zap

Zing Zap

 

[fratelli bc]

I see no one talking about Rillaboom:


- Gets Electric, Water and Poison coverage (Thunder Punch/Fang from Thwackey, Gunk Shot from Grookey and Razor Shell)
- Glare
- Rapid Spin
- Roost/Recover/Refresh
- Toxic
- Rock Polish
- Rock Slide
- Thunderous Kick
- Thousand Arrows (if it's allowed)

Also, Thunderous Kick is interesting:

- Hitmons (Tyrogue)
- Tapus (Koko and Bulu appreciate)
- Terrakion
- Blaziken (Torchic)
- Flygon (Trappinch)
- Tyranitar

Sounds like a fun meta.

 

[Geyro]

Magearna is absurbe.. Too many bulky accès to shift gear milk drink Moonblast Magma storm... Wtf

 

[wind]

I dont really care if someone already posted about this, i want to make a post myself.

Presenting...



Scolipede @ Focus Sash / Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- V-create
- Wicked Blow
- X-Scissor / Megahorn / Anything you want here

It does not only get V-Create which after SD hits incredibly hard and you dont have to care about Speed drops thanks to Speed Boost, but it also gets Wicked Blow which KOes any Psychic-Type trying to kill you. Last slot should be a STAB move like Megahorn or Poison Jab. Focus Sash guarantees at least one Swords Dance, Life Orb adds extra power and HDB allows it to switch into the battlefield whenever it wants to setup. If not using HDB, try to pair it up with hazard removers. It also needs some chip damage to get some KOes so try pairing it up with Sableye or Slowbro; the last one can also bring it safely into the battlefield.

 

[Eli]

After a bit of discussion it has finally been decided that we are banning and

They are both way too strong and restrictive for this tier with the moves they gain access to:

• Blaziken getting Bolt Strike, Blue Flare, Belly Drum, Clangorous Soul, Crabhammer, and Thunderous Kick in addition to what it already learns (Earthquake, Flare Blitz, Close Combat)
• Scolipede getting S moves in general (there are a lot, main ones are Spectral Thief, Sucker Punch, Strength Sap I would say), and the most important moves: V-create and Wicked Blow, in addition to its normal coverage in Earthquake, and Swords Dance for set up.

They are incredibly restrictive in that you need to be lucky in what you have sent out at a given time to be able to deal with a Blaziken/Scolipede coming in, otherwise you get set up on switch out. There are some specific ways to deal with it, but they require you having the right Pokemon out at the right time, or sacrificing something to bring in Thundurus/Tornadus to get off a Prankster Topsy-Turvy. Burning or paralyzing them (though Blaziken can't be burnt) is an option, but that assumes they aren't already set up and rolling through a team, so you have a short time to actually get these off. With the new coverage given by Alphabet Cup they also just dont have real switch ins, so you have to pray that you play around them properly to avoid a sweep. I wanted both of them banned because they basically do the same sort of thing, and that's the conclusion we came to here.



tagging The Immortal and Kris because you're cool and know what to do now thank u very much

 

[GrandSmasher]

Wickedpedeia (Scolipede) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wicked Blow
- V-create
- Swords Dance
- Spiky Shield

This is very disgusting. Originally I had Speed Swap over V-Create thinking I could give opposing Topsy-Turvy mons the lowered speed, but it didn't work. Then I remembered V-Create. I wouldn't be surprised if SOMETHING gets banned because of this.

When I discovered this, I knew something was getting banned lol.




Hot Dog (Flareon) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Def
Brave Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Fishious Rend
- Flare Blitz
- Flip Turn

Here, have a Hot Dog!

 

[bp scrub]

Steelix @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Strength Sap
- Octolock
- Earthquake
- Sacred Fire

haven't played much yet but i've really been liking this, although most of the kills it gets are prob from a surprise factor. You can octolock against pretty much anything that can't 2hko you and they're dead if they don't have a pivot move

sample replay: https://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites//xy/scolipede.gif.m.1532458525
steelix shuts down diggersby/landot

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

OMG ABC Cup is back!

I used to play this OM years ago. happy to see it return.
Is S still dumb as it used to be?

 

[woworiginal]

Is S still dumb as it used to be?

yeah lol

 

[LatiasDigs]

I understand why Fishious Rend wasnt quickbanned, theres only like one viable user...LETS TALK ABOUT THAT USER


Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
- Scale Shot / Outrage
- Fishious Rend
- Earthquake / Flare Blitz / Other Coverage

It could prob run choice band/scarf sets too

 

[DuDono]

Is regigigas any dangerous as he gets role play? Or is it not so strong as he lacks of boosting moves and can only use 3 moves indeed?

 

[yikes]

set idea for

Young Thug - With That feat. Lil Duke (Dracozolt) @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle / Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Hammer / Dragon Darts
- Drum Beating / Fire Fang / filler

hunnid band hunnid band remove them scarfers and sweep everybody man
drum beating is for ground types, last moveslot is largely filler. fire fang beats , but darts 2hkos with hustle, whoops physdef , and is a generally good secondary stab move. you only really wanna click bolt beak 99% of the time anyway tho. maybe run some filler over drum beating idk. dragon ascent is an option if you aren't man enough to run hustle, dragon hammer is a stab option for those who are scared of missing darts

edit: +1 hustle bolt beak 2hkos physdef and physdef after rocks, and the only ground types that don't get 2hko'd by dragon hammer are fucking steelix and galarian stunfisk. i underestimated just how fucking stronge this thing is.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 200-237 (56.8 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
you do not switch into this thing once it's set up. either you pick it off with a scarfer or a dragapult or an ice shard user or a sylveon espeed or something, or you fucking die. only weak to ice shard and pixilate espeed too as far as priority goes

 

[GrandSmasher]

set idea for

Young Thug - With That feat. Lil Duke (Dracozolt) @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle / Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Hammer / Dragon Darts
- Drum Beating / Fire Fang / filler

hunnid band hunnid band remove them scarfers and sweep everybody man
drum beating is for ground types, last moveslot is largely filler. fire fang beats , but darts 2hkos with hustle, whoops physdef , and is a generally good secondary stab move. you only really wanna click bolt beak 99% of the time anyway tho. maybe run some filler over drum beating idk. dragon ascent is an option if you aren't man enough to run hustle, dragon hammer is a stab option for those who are scared of missing darts

edit: +1 hustle bolt beak 2hkos physdef and physdef after rocks, and the only ground types that don't get 2hko'd by dragon hammer are fucking steelix and galarian stunfisk. i underestimated just how fucking stronge this thing is.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 200-237 (56.8 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
you do not switch into this thing once it's set up. either you pick it off with a scarfer or a dragapult or an ice shard user or a sylveon espeed or something, or you fucking die. only weak to ice shard and pixilate espeed too as far as priority goes

Dragon Darts has 100% accuracy like Dragon Hammer, but has 10 more BP, so there's no reason to run Dragon Hammer really.



Barraskewer (Barraskewda) @ King's Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Beat Up
- Liquidation
- Bolt Strike
- Flip Turn

Here, have a Barraskewer!