Yeah, it would shred even without wicked blow. Shell Smash is banned anyway, so it wouldn't run it.
Before we published this, we did have a big discussion of whether or not Wicked Blow or Weavile had to be banned, and as funny as Wicked Blow Quagsire sounds, it'sI saw Weavile being on the ban list, which may seem weird since on its own, it's not an overpowered or overcentralizing Pokémon like Librero Cinderace. But then the principal reason why it is was because of access to multiple strong S moves through Sneasel (Sucker Punch, Sunsteel Strike, Superpower, Spirit Break vs Fighting-type, Shell Smash, Sacred Sword, Sacred Fire, Scale Shot), many of which Weavile benefits very much from it.
But that's only the tip of the iceberg. Weavile is the only W Pokémon with Dark-type STAB of Wicked Blow, and it is physical too! Which means not only Weavile is faster than Urshifu, but this means it could just equip Choice Band/Scarf and demolish anything or 2HKO everything that does not resist to Dark.
252+ Atk Choice Band Adamant Weavile Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 163-193 (53.6 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Jolly Weavile Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 150-177 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Jolly Weavile Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 367-433 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Jolly Weavile Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
If this thing foregoes Choice Band/Scarf and instead opt to set up a Shell Smash - provided it forces a switch on the opponent or use Focus Sash and hope for no entry hazard on Weavile's side - there will be fewer things to survive a Wicked Blow, and only an Unaware or priority will save you; not even a Choice Scarf Dragapult or a Jolly Regieleki would hope to outrun this thing.
Absolute constraint on teambuilding if this was allowed to run, and thankfully the ban was for the better.
I am back with more fun things (and opinion on our poll here).
Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Diamond Storm
- Dragon Dance
Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Lava Plume
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Parting Shot
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch/Sucker Punch
- Behemoth Blade
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blue Flare
- Shadow Ball
- Bolt Strike
- Bonemerang
Buzzwole @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Leech Life
- Bulk Up
- Roost
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Glare
- Dragon Tail
Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch/Sucker Punch
- Behemoth Blade
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance/Belly Drum
Okay onto the giving access to Alphabet moves of pre-evos.
- I know it was touched on earlier in thread, but looking at it more closely, I see it can get a ton of good stuff: Bullet Punch, Behemoth Blade/Bash, Belly Drum, and Bolt Strike without access to Pawniard's moves. With access to them, it gets those previously mentioned in addition to things like Precipice Blades, Parting Shot, Pyro Ball, Play Rough, Plasma Fists, Power Whip, and Psychic Fangs, giving it a ton of really cool coverage options for being able to take on stuff like Toxapex and Magearna more easily.
- Garchomp can be a neat Stealth Rock lead with Glare in its moveset to easy paralyzes
- Incineroar is another cool thing if it gets to take moves from its pre-evos, gaining moves like Lava Plume which more is good for burning opponents without needing to use Will-O-Wisp
- Excadrill was also touched on before, but it getting Extreme Speed is noteworthy to me, and if it gets moves from its pre-evo, then Diamond Storm is also cool
I, of course, very much am in favor of allowing it. Quantum Tesseract brought up a fantastic point, even outside of the STABmons precedence one (regarding type changes between evolutions still letting the next evolution learn the move of a type that has been lost/changed, see: Azurill being Normal/Fairy and Azumarill being Water/Fairy), on how evolved Pokemon get the moves of their pre-evos and can learn additional moves as they evolve, with Larvesta as an exception, which ends up meaning nothing anyway with Egg moves and Gen 8 Rare Candy. I also see other people supporting it, and I'm a fan of the increased variety it gives if we ignore the entirely valid points from others.
It's also just more fun with the increased variety in moves Pokemon get, and helps with the viability of additional Pokemon if you're really concerned with that, since some start with not so great letters as a fully evolved Pokemon, but have pre-evos that start with better letters for better moves (Frosmoth/Snom, Excadrill/Drilbur, and Incineroar/Torracat/Litten are the first things that come to my mind).
It isn't very difficult to understand either, if that's an issue with anybody. It's easy to just look at the Pokemon's pre-evo if you really aren't sure in their case, like you can in STABmons or anything else really, because /dt is a very nice function to have around if you ever need it.
Going back to the point made by Quantum Tesseract, I feel like it is incredibly worth mentioning that having that sort of consistency is really good, and it makes sense with respect to how the actual games work as well. I know how much consistency is valued in general, so I just wanted to save it for last since that's usually the thing people remember most.
This is a fun meta to build for.
Moltres-Galar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Milk Drink
- Magma Storm
- Fiery Wrath
- Taunt
Stallbreaker Moltres-G kinda like stallbreaker heatran. Uses Magma Storm+Taunt to chip defensive pokemons and heals with milk drink. It's still useful outside of more defensive matchup due to its bulk and its ability to get many berserk boosts thanks to milk drink. It also gets moonblast which is very good coverage when combined with fiery wrath. Overall, Moltres-G improves a lot and seems to have the potential to be quite the threat.
Thundurus (M) @ Chill Drive
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Techno Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot
- Topsy-Turvy
It's kind of insane how there's been so little talk about this. It's probably gonna be THE best pokemon in the meta thanks to having prankster topsy-turvy to destroy any set-up attempts and having powerful bolt-beam coverage with nasty plot. Seriously this thing is ALWAYS a threat and an amazing support pokemon.
Tapu Koko @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Wild Charge
- U-turn
- Roost
Koko could run a special set with ice techno blast but I figured that was a waste of an item slot and a waste of koko's high attack stat. Now, with Triple Axel, it becomes a really dangerous attacker. Understandably, Wild Charge recoil is annoying but it's not a move you should underestimate.
Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Parting Shot
Parting Shot really helps PZ's choiced sets since it gives it a way to pivot which was one of its main downside before. Not only that, it also gets psystrike which deals heavy damage to blisseys trying to wall it.
Rillaboom @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grav Apple
- Grassy Glide
- Triple Axel
- Thousand Waves.
With ice+ground coverage, Rillaboom can hit a bunch of mons super effectively and has great coverage. Grav Apple can also be a nice move to stallbreak but Swords Dance is probably better. Thousand Waves is a really interesting move since it (seemingly) doesn't have its power lowered by grassy terrain, is fully accurate and traps the target.
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Heavy Slam
Who was it that leaked Cosmic Power Celesteela? I hope you're happy. Anyway this thing also gets access to corrosive gas, court change and clangorous soul. Looks like hell to deal with both the bulky variants and the set-up variants.
Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- No Retreat
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
This seems incredibly difficult to answer due to it outspeeding every scarfer except regieleki who can't hit it and it's still a pain to deal with defensively because of its insane coverage. I'm surprised No Retreat hasn't been limited yet.
Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Roost
- No Retreat
- U-turn
No Retreat+Pivoting+Healing. Have fun.
Noting that while I think the pre-evolution clause is fun due to the variety it introduces, i found it to be completely unintuitive while thinking about sets. I don't know the names of 90% of the NFE pokemon
Thanks for your perspective; do you feel like the format itself is limiting you from looking this up? We do have a list in the resources already of all of the extra letters everyone has the potential to gain. Is there a better way for us to make that info accessible to you and other new players? /dt does let you look at Evo lines through the provided link, and 90% of the time, you can do /ds with one of the abilities and find the prevos (blaze will show you all of the fire starters, etc)
I'm genuinely asking because if there's anything we can do to make things easier, we'd love to help!
I really like pre-evo clause because it just makes the game more fun. A bunch of pokemons get new options that make them more viable and logically speaking, it follows the rule that "If your pre-evolution has a move, you can have it too."
Here are a couple of sets:
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Poltergeist
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
Gets Close Combat from cubone. That's it but it's still really good for one of the best trick room mon in the game.
Exploud @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Hammer Arm
- Wicked Blow
- Explosion
Scrappy Espeed+Fighting is perfect coverage so last 2 slots can be whatever you want. Explosion is able to nuke anything that doesn't resist it while wicked blow is just a funny move from whismur. Main thing here is this is a great revenge killer thanks to stab banded espeed.
Necrozma @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- No Retreat
- Moonlight
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave
Prepare your prankster topsy-turvys everyone.
Xatu @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Roost
- No Retreat
- U-turn
- Air Slash
Ok but what if you couldn't get prankster turvy'd?
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Apple Acid
- Flip Turn
- Synthesis
- Spore
Flip Turn+Regen is ridiculously good and apple acid is also really annoying to go up against. Just a good bulk pivot.
Bewear @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Double-Edge
Ghost+Fighting is great coverage and spectral thief is a broken move. Shore up lets you heal with bewear's good physical bulk (against contact moves) and last slot can be literally anything.
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Thunderous Kick
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
Wow this is actually really cool. Obliterate fairies with gunk shot, set up trick room, you have thunderous kick (CC would still probably be better though). It also gets gyro ball and becomes a great trick room setter/abuser.
Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Spikes
- Flip Turn
- Toxic Spikes
Bulky with hazard stacking and pivoting. Not quite pex but the type is better and it gets more hazards and defog so that's nice
Crobat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glare
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn
- Roost
Glare is good team support. Yeah that's it. Fast para is quite good.
Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Secret Sword
- Psychic
- Strength Sap
- Calm Mind
Secret Sword is always really good for it no matter how you use reuniclus. Crushing blissey and having an accurate special fighting move is just good for it. Also strength sap makes it even worse to fight against.
Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Bolt Strike
- Milk Drink
- Stealth Rock
Behemoth moves, Bolt Strike for bulky waters and then you just run whatever you want. Seems like a good bulky steel type though since it has recovery now.
Thanks for your perspective; do you feel like the format itself is limiting you from looking this up? We do have a list in the resources already of all of the extra letters everyone has the potential to gain. Is there a better way for us to make that info accessible to you and other new players? /dt does let you look at Evo lines through the provided link, and 90% of the time, you can do /ds with one of the abilities and find the prevos (blaze will show you all of the fire starters, etc)
I'm genuinely asking because if there's anything we can do to make things easier, we'd love to help!
There are two facets: in building, and my opponent's pokemon in battle.
The firm of those is easier to solve for. The existing resources of the "letters" available works, but it's slower than the ideal experience of just knowing what something gets. I.e. the dream is "I want to set my metagame in the builder, and have the properties of the pokemon updated in the pokedex". Obviously a larger effort for all OMs and showdown generally.
For in battle, without playing enough to know the common sets, I am never going to know what something *could* have, unless I know the prevos. Something like the inheritance overlay for the letters available would help.
Keep in mind Doom Desire will only trigger from Blade Aegislash if its active in the field.Hi Hello I have some trash I want to litter about the thread
Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Liquid Voice
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Moonblast
- Psystrike
- Flip Turn
It might be too late for this to work but I thought STAB Boomburst sounded really funny, and indeed it is pretty funny.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Liquid Voice Primarina Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 283-334 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Psystrike does more damage to targets like Blissey and Toxapex, but really you could click Boomburst against anything without a 4x resist/immunity and get mileage. There's plenty more coverage options you can run if you want like Blue Flare to smack Grass types.
Aegislash @ Metal Coat/Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Doom Desire
- Anchor Shot
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
Switch into something that doesn't threaten you, and depending on the situation you can either get a trap off with Anchor Shot and then Doom Desire, or skip the first step and just fire off a Doom Desire. Pair with some really strong Fighting/Dark/Dragon type to pressure Fairies looking to block you. I don't know about the rest of the set just make it do Aegislash things. Big shame it doesn't get a pivot move outside of Healing Wish.
Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Cage
- Protect
- Substitute
- Taunt
Loses to ground-types but you can literally just ruin the will to live of your opponent should they not have an Electric immunity