Metagame Alphabet Cup

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Alphabet Cup

Be sure to vote on the Haxorus suspect test if you have the reqs!


Leaders:
alaserdolphin
Morytha


Updates!
December 22nd, 2020
Haxorus Suspect Test Began

December 17th, 2020
The Recommended Moves Compendium was added!

December 16th, 2020
Belly Drum is banned

December 13th, 2020
Alphabet Cup was featured for the first time on pokeaimMD!
We welcome any other ABC content if you'd like to be featured here!

December 1st, 2020
Scolipede is banned
Blaziken is banned

November 29th, 2020
Alphabet Cup won OMotM!
Thank you to everyone that voted!
We both look forward to battling you all soon!

November 27th, 2020
Melmetal is banned
Double Iron Bash is no longer full-banned
Zygarde is banned
Thousand Arrows is no longer full-banned
Electrify is banned

November 16th, 2020
Astral Barrage is banned

November 8th, 2020
Melmetal is unbanned
Double Iron Bash is fully banned

November 3rd, 2020
Cinderace has been banned
Sleep Powder has been banned
Kartana has been unbanned

November 2nd, 2020
Validator Rules for Alphabet Cup added! Please see the "Further Notes" section for more info.


The major change:
In addition to their normal moveset, all Pokémon get every move with which they share a starting letter.
Prevo Clause: Pokémon also gain access to letters available in their prior evolutions

Clauses: Dynamax Clause, Endless Battle Clause, Evasion Clause, OHKO Clause, Sleep Clause, Species Clause
Bans:

:blaziken: Blaziken
:calyrex-shadow: Calyrex-Shadow
:calyrex-ice: Calyrex-Ice
:cinderace: Cinderace
:darmanitan-galar: Darmanitan-Galar
:dialga: Dialga
:dracovish: Dracovish
:eternatus: Eternatus
:genesect: Genesect
:giratina::giratina-origin: Giratina
:groudon: Groudon
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:kyogre: Kyogre
:kyurem-black:Kyurem-Black
:kyurem-white: Kyurem-White
:landorus: Landorus-Incarnate
:lugia: Lugia
:lunala: Lunala
:marshadow: Marshadow
:melmetal: Melmetal
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:naganadel: Naganadel
:necrozma-dawn-wings: Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
:palkia: Palkia
:pheromosa: Pheromosa
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:reshiram: Reshiram
:scolipede: Scolipede
:solgaleo: Solgaleo
:spectrier: Spectrier
:weavile: Weavile
:xerneas: Xerneas
:yveltal: Yveltal
:zacian::zacian-crowned: Zacian
:zekrom: Zekrom
:zygarde: Zygarde
:zamazenta::zamazenta-crowned: Zamazenta is not banned.

• Acupressure*
• Astral Barrage
• Baton Pass*
• Bolt Beak
• Double Iron Bash
• Electrify
• Geomancy
• Glacial Lance
• Lovely Kiss
• Shell Smash
• Shift Gear
• Sleep Powder
• Spore
• Surging Strikes
• Thousand Arrows

• Arena Trap
• Moody
• Power Construct
• Shadow Tag

One of the most significant benefits to this meta is that many Pokémon with less-than-stellar movepools get a ton of opportunity to shine. Here are some examples:

All Pokémon that start with S get access to all but one of the hazards (Toxic Spikes), Scald, Soft-Boiled/Shore Up/Slack Off, Spectral Thief, Strength Sap, Substitute, Sunsteel Strike, Swords Dance, and, frankly, an entire suite of incredible moves. S Pokémon are considered so good that past gens have added an “S Clause” to limit the number of S Pokémon to one.

Beyond S, the big winners are:
• R: Rapid Spin, Recover, etc.
• T: Taunt, Techno Blast, Teleport, Toxic Spikes, Trick, Trick Room, etc.
With honorable mentions to:
• D: Diamond Storm, Discharge, Dragon Dance, every other move starting with “Dragon”, etc.
• M: Meteor Mash, Milk Drink, Multi-Attack, Moongeist Beam, etc.
• C: Calm Mind, Clanging Scales, Clangorous Soul, Cotton Guard, etc.

Some Pokémon that get particularly nice boosts:
:silvally: Silvally: This Pokémon I think becomes the star of balance teams. Everything that was mediocre about Silvally ceases to exist here.
:rotom: Rotom (and forms): Good for all the usual reasons, but now with access to recovery moves and Rapid Spin.
:toxapex: Toxapex: Teleport. Taunt and everything is nice, but Teleport on Pex turns its features up to 11.
:corviknight: Corviknight: Cotton Guard + Body Press turns this wall into a full-on tank. It also gets Court Change and Rapid Spin.

Some Pokémon that don’t really benefit:
:latios: Latios: Great Pokémon that doesn’t really get many new moves.
:heatran: Heatran: Would absolutely love Heal Order if it was in Gen 8, but it otherwise gets nothing.
:mew: Mew: Already a massive movepool and it doesn’t really pick up any new tricks.
:volcarona: Volcarona: V-Create could be nice, but otherwise it gets nothing.
:alakazam: Alakazam: Same story – just doesn’t really get anything it needs.
:kartana: Kartana: Only gains two moves, both of which are irrelevant to it.

That does not mean these Pokémon are bad! We just want to mention that many Pokémon benefit differently!

• Clangorous Soul
• Dragapult / Dragon Energy
• Magearna
• No Retreat
• Sticky Web
• V-Create

For potential clauses:
• Like it was mentioned earlier, an S Clause, if not a “One-Mon-Per-Letter Clause” is definitely something that will have to be on-deck if it becomes an issue.

FAQs/Comments:
• Anything annotated with an asterisk is banned outright, meaning even Pokémon that natively have access cannot use them.
• Moves not fully functional on cartridge (Pursuit, for one) cannot be used.
• Nicknames do not alter your access to moves. The names as listed by default in the teambuilder determine your access.

Further Notes:
• A lot of really amazing moves don’t get many opportunities to be used: Quiver Dance, Wish, Octolock, Extreme Speed, to name a few.
• A lot of letters get almost nothing. J, K, Q (other than Quiver Dance), U (other than U-Turn), X, Y, and Z are all left mostly for dead.
• You can challenge your friends/rivals with functionality now added to PS!
When using the /challenge command, you can now add @@@ Alphabet Cup Move Legality to the end to have it validate our rules! Currently, there is no option in teambuilder and the validator will not compare with our banlist, but it's a nice benefit! Thanks to Kris for coding this!
Example: open up the chat window for a person and type: /challenge Custom Game @@@ Standard, Alphabet Cup Move Legality
This will challenge someone to a Custom Game with the standard set of clauses (Sleep Clause, etc.), but it will tell you if one of your sets is using a move with a letter it doesn't have access to. We hope to make things even more user-friendly soon!


We hope everyone likes this format and we look forward to seeing the creative sets that will arise!

-----------------
Approved by SectoniaServant, drampa's grandpa, and The Immortal
 
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Some Initial Resources:

Multi-Letter Access

List of three stage evolutions
Evolved Pokemon that get letters other than their own:
  • Aegislash: H + D
  • Aggron: L
  • Alakazam: K
  • Azumarill: M
  • Beedrill: W + K
  • Blastoise: S + W
  • Blaziken: T + C
  • Blissey: H + C
  • Butterfree: C + M
  • Chandelure: L
  • Coalossal: R
  • Conkeldurr: T + G
  • Corviknight: R
  • Crobat: Z + G
  • Decidueye: R
  • Exploud: W + L
  • Flygon: T + V
  • Gardevoir/Gallade: R + K
  • Gengar: H
  • Gigalith: R + B
  • Goodra: S
  • Grimmsnarl: I + M
  • Haxorus: A + F
  • Hydreigon: D + Z
  • Incineroar: L + I
  • Inteleon: S + D
  • Kingdra: H + S
  • Kommo-o: J + H
  • Krookodile: S
  • Luxray: S
  • Mamoswine: S + P
  • Metagross: B
  • Obstagoon: Z + L
  • Orbeetle: B + D
  • Primarina: B
  • Raichu: P
  • Reuniclus: S + D
  • Rillaboom: G + T
  • Roserade: B
  • Salamence: B
  • Scoliopede: V + W
  • Seismitoad: T + P
  • Shiftry: S + N
  • Stoutland: L + H
  • Swampert: M
  • Talonflame: F
  • Tsareena: B + S
  • Tyranitar: L + P
  • Unfezant: P + T
  • Venusaur: B + I
  • Victreebel: B + W
  • Vikavolt: G + C
  • Vileplume/Bellossom: O + G
  • Walrein: S
  • Wigglytuff: I + J

  • Abomasnow: S
  • Accelgor: S
  • Alcremie: M
  • All Eeveelutions get E
  • Altaria: S
  • Amoongus: F
  • Araquanid: D
  • Arcanine: G
  • Aromatisse: S
  • Avalugg: B
  • Barraskewda: A
  • Beartic: C
  • Beheeyem: E
  • Bewear: S
  • Bisharp: P
  • Boltund: Y
  • Braviary: R
  • Carracosta: T
  • Centiskorch: S
  • Cinccino: M
  • Claydol: B
  • Cloyster: S
  • Cofagrigus/Runerigus: Y
  • Crustle: D
  • Diggersby: B
  • Dragalge: S
  • Drapion: S
  • Drednaw: C
  • Eldegoss: G
  • Escavalier: K
  • Excadrill: D
  • Flapple: A
  • Frosmoth: S
  • Galvantula: J
  • Garbador: T
  • Gastrodon: S
  • Glalie/Froslass: S
  • Golisopod: W
  • Gourgeist: P
  • Grapploct: C
  • Greedent: S
  • Gyarados: M
  • Hitmonlee/chan/top: T
  • Jellicent: F
  • Jynx: S
  • Lanturn: C
  • Liepard: P
  • Lilligant: P
  • Lopunny: B
  • Lucario: R
  • Lurantis: F
  • Lycanroc: R
  • Malamar: I
  • Mandibuzz: V
  • Manectric: E
  • Marowak: C
  • Meowstic: E
  • Milotic: F
  • Ninetales: V
  • Noctowl: H
  • Octillery: R
  • Palossand: S
  • Pelipper: W
  • Persian: M
  • Polteageist: S
  • Quagsire: W
  • Rapidash: P
  • Ribombee: C
  • Seaking: G
  • Sharpedo: C
  • Shedinja: N
  • Shiinotic: M
  • Silvally: T
  • Sirfetch'd: F
  • Snorlax: M
  • Steelix: O
  • Sudowoodo: B
  • Swoobat: W
  • Thievul: N
  • Toxapex: M
  • Toxicroak: C
  • Trevenant: P
  • Urshifu: K
  • Vespiquen: C
  • Volcarona: L
  • Walrein: S
  • Weezing: K
  • Whimsicott: C
  • Whiscash: B
  • Xatu: N

I forgot how many bad non-meta mons there were, so these lists ended up being longer than I had expected.

List of all moves
This page includes moves not available in Gen 8 and moves like the G-Max moves, so please keep that in mind.

Our Recommended Moves Compendium

Upcoming:
- VR
- Much more. Stay tuned!
 
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Resources Part 2

:ss/toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover / Milk Drink / Tech Choice
- Haze / Knock Off / Toxic / Tech Choice
- Teleport

This thing is a monster. If your team cannot handle this thing (as is the case in many metas that it is in), you will probably lose.

:ss/dragapult:
Dragapult @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf / Life Orb / HDB
Ability: Infiltrator / Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Energy / Dynamax Cannon
- Shadow Ball / Hex
- Fire Blast / Discharge / Tech
- Doom Desire / Dynamax Cannon / Tech

This is on the watchlist for a reason. This is essentially Dracovish in that your first move is 99% of the time going to be Dragon Energy, and the other moves are just glad to be mentioned. Dynamax Cannon is more reliable than Dragon Energy and allows you to take more chip damage without worry.

:ss/silvally-fairy:
Silvally-Fairy @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Any Hazard
- Spikes / Any Hazard / Tech
- Shore Up / Strength Sap
- Parting Shot / Teleport / Tech

As mentioned before, Silvally is great, especially on balance teams. It can hazard stack with access to every hazard in the game, it can do standard pivot stuff, and gets two amazing letters, providing a lot of set flexibility. Also immune to Knock Off.

:ss/rotom-mow:
Rotom-Mow @ Leftovers / HDB
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Recover / Roost
- Leaf Storm / Tech
- Volt Switch

Pretty standard Rotom set. Another excellent pivot, and one of the more reliable rapid spinners. It loves its recovery as well. Another very flexible Pokemon with tons of potential. I personally prefer Mow to make it less susceptible to hazards if it doesn't run boots, but it's obviously up to what works for your team.

:ss/corviknight:
Corviknight @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD (This can wildly change as can its nature to fit the set)
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cotton Guard / Clangorous Soul
- Body Press / Your Favorite Attack
- Recover / Roost
- Rapid Spin / Your Favorite Attack / Tech

Another arguable staple of the format. Like Pex, you need to have answers to this to reliably win games.

:ss/thundurus:
Thundurus (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots / One of the Drives / Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (this also can vary to fit your set)
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Topsy-Turvy
- Taunt / Thunder Cage / Techno Blast / Tailwind / Defog
- Thunder Wave / Nasty Plot / Coverage / Tech
- Volt Switch / Teleport / U-Turn
What has rapidly risen to become one of the single-most important Pokemon in the format. Prankster Topsy-Turvy is a huge tool in shutting down the large number of setup sweepers, and its access to some of the better status moves in the game makes it an excellent utility. Techno Blast provides great coverage options with an extremely powerful move, and Thunder Cage is a powerful STAB option that also can capture unsuspecting opponents.

:ss/blissey:
Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss / Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Haze / Clear Smog / Cotton Guard
- Wish / Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy / Heal Bell
This is Blissey but even better. Happiny is a godsend in the form of Haze (and Hypnosis, if you're that kind of person). It also gets access to Cotton Guard if you're looking for some physical bulk. If you're a really spicy memer, you can even run Conversion and make Blissey another type.

:ss/gyarados:
Gyarados @ Flying Memory / HDB / Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance / Tech
- Aqua Tail / Liquidation
- Multi-Attack / Coverage / Tech
- Milk Drink / Coverage / Glare
This is the sweeper Gyarados many people are used to, but now with Flying STAB. Milk Drink also gives it recovery and Glare provides speed control. If you're looking for a bulky Intimidate user, you can certainly adapt this thing to fit those needs. Fair Warning: Knock Off will remove your memory, so keep that in mind!

:ss/ninetales-alola:
Ninetales-Alola @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Light Clay / Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- No Retreat / Nasty Plot / Coverage / Tech
- Aurora Veil / Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry
- Volt Switch
Great for hail teams and HO teams. Pretty similar usage to how it is in standard formats, but with a pivot move and improved setup.

:ss/ninetales:
Ninetales @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Heat Rock / Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- No Retreat / Nuzzle
- V-create
- Scorching Sands / Coverage / Tech
- Volt Switch
Similar to the previous set, but for Sun teams. V-Create boosted through STAB and Sunny Day is nuts, and many players either totally get caught off-guard or play overly cautious and allow you some freedom. Some folks don't even run V-Create and just try to bluff it, leaving that slot available for something else. Nuzzle is great for speed control.

:ss/dragonite:
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Darts / Outrage
- Roost / Tech
Dragonite loves its new moves. This is also essentially just completely improved Dragonite. I've personally even seen Band on this just to ensure every hit is that much more powerful. ESpeed also works especially well on the Band sets.

:ss/tapu-lele:
Tapu Lele @ Burn Drive / Chill Drive / Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind / Taunt / Trick
- Terrain Pulse
- Techno Blast
- Moonblast
It's Lele but with better STAB and beautifully improved coverage. Great for removing rival terrains and limiting access to priority spam.

:ss/stakataka:
Stakataka @ Leftovers / Choice Band / Air Balloon / Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Body Press
- Stone Edge
- Sacred Fire
Easily a TR staple. There are a million things this monster gains, including Swords Dance and Spectral Thief, and I'm not going to waste everyone's time listing them all. With the right support (and maybe some EV/nature changing), this could even be good on non-TR teams.

:ss/garchomp:
Garchomp @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glare
- Outrage / Stealth Rock / Grav Apple
- Earthquake
- Gear Grind / Gunk Shot
This is Garchomp but with some very appreciated new coverage options and access to a move it adores: Glare. Garchomp can easily threaten Pex in the right contexts and that last slot provides ways to kill Fairies. Grav Apple is good for wallbreaking and it stops you from getting walled by Seismitoad and Swampert.

:ss/nidoking:
Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- No Retreat / Nasty Plot
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast / Ice Beam / Focus Blast / Thunderbolt
Definitely another Pokemon to watch out for. It gets two very very nice boosting moves and can easily sweep teams if they're unprepared.

:ss/clefable:
Clefable @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Unaware / Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Cotton Guard / Court Change / Clear Smog
- Heal Bell / Stealth Rock
- Core Enforcer / Moonblast / Teleport
- Soft-Boiled / Wish
Clefable but with even more utility. Frankly, you can mix and match just about any combination of these moves (and a ton of other moves) and you'll probably still have a relatively competent set. While usually ran as a cleric/wall, some folks have run MGLO sets with Calm Mind and the like to be a surprise tank/sweeper.

:ss/primarina:
Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Liquid Voice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Moonblast
- Psystrike
- Flip Turn
Specs STAB Boomburst.

:ss/salamence:
Salamence @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Brave Bird
- Scale Shot / Outrage
- Spectral Thief / Sacred Fire / Tech
A great setup sweeper that has great potential to snowball with Moxie. Really loves its heavily improved STAB access.

:ss/steelix:
Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Octolock
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Slack Off
One of the most infamous sets since the beginning of the month. Please don't use this.

:ss/zamazenta-crowned:
Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Behemoth Bash
- Ice Fang
- Zing Zap
It really only gets one notable new move, but it's still Zamazenta. Great stats and a great typing.

:ss/barraskewda:
Barraskewda @ Lum Berry / Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up / Flip Turn / Coverage
- Aqua Tail / Liquidation
- Bolt Strike
- Close Combat
Big Moves like Bullet Seed exist as spicy tech options to avoid having trouble with mons like Seismitoad and sash revengers.

:ss/dracozolt:
Dracozolt @ Wide Lens / Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Hustle / Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance / Coverage / Tech
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Darts
- Dragon Ascent
One of the hardest-hitting Pokemon in the game - now with DDance and Dragon Darts. I personally like Wide Lens to reduce the chance of losing a sweep from Hustle, but it's up to the player. Volt Absorb can provide you with an opportunity for a free switch off of a good read. With Bolt Strike being much more common, you can pair this with something like Pex or Corv and keep momentum when you need it.

:ss/bisharp:
Bisharp @ Lum Berry / Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Coverage
- Knock Off / Behemoth Blade
- Bullet Punch / Sucker Punch
- Precipice Blades / Plasma Fists / Pyro Ball / Tech
Even after Belly Drum was banned, this is still a pretty great threat. In general, this is standard Bisharp but with Bullet Punch and an incredible suite of moves to pick for its fourth slot. Plasma Fists is great for Corviknight, Precipice Blades for fire types and Magearna, and so on. Some people opt for double priority (both Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch), so keep that in mind!

:ss/swampert:
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shore Up / Strength Sap
- Spikes / Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock / Spectral Thief
- Flip Turn
Another very common wall. Shore Up is more consistent, but Strength Sap has the potential to heal for more and weaken your opponent. This is a very common hazard setter, and it's not rare to run some combination of two. Moves like Spectral Thief and Sacred Fire can be both powerful and hold great utility. Flip Turn it gets naturally, but what bulky pivot doesn't love a pivot move?

:ss/volcanion:
Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb / Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Steam Eruption / Scald
- Earth Power / Scorching Sands / Vacuum Wave / Tech
- Volt Switch
Fantastic offensive pivot. Access to STAB V-Create is always appreciated, as is Volt Switch. The choice of water STAB can change depending on how much you worry about PP, accuracy, etc. The third slot can be a ton of things - Vacuum Wave isn't necessarily common, but it definitely can catch someone by surprise!

:ss/pelipper:
Pelipper @ Damp Rock / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Hurricane / Knock Off
- Water Shuriken
- Parting Shot
Pelipper is (as always) a lynchpin to rain teams, and ABC is no exception. It really adores its access to some new toys, notably Water Spout / Water Shuriken. Parting Shot is basically better U-Turn for it. Many teams run a bulky Pelipper with bulkier EVs and a more standard set, except with Parting Shot replacing U-Turn. Not necessarily common, but you do also get Wish and Will-O-Wisp!

This is far from a complete list and we just thought it'd be best to give some examples in case you aren't sure where to start! Throughout this thread, many others have provided some sets and it's likely there will be more in the future.
 
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Pre-Evolution clause sounds like an extremely bad idea. Some Pokémon get nothing, many get grossly inflated movepools (for example Cinderace gets S and R on top of C). It's just a degree of unnecessary complexity that only breaks things.

Why is Kartana banned? The only new moves it learns are Kinesis and King's Shield.
 

MZ

Ban all DLC
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
PU Leader
Just decided to read through the OP and stuff and having Spore banned seems pretty wack. I mean yes it's Spore and Spore is dumb, but Sleep Powder is legal anyway. It's just a decision that introduces even more luck into the game, because Sleep is broken enough to be worth running but now unreliable enough to mess with people. I think you'd be better off banning both or neither.
 
Pre-Evolution clause sounds like an extremely bad idea. Some Pokémon get nothing, many get grossly inflated movepools (for example Cinderace gets S and R on top of C). It's just a degree of unnecessary complexity that only breaks things.

Why is Kartana banned? The only new moves it learns are Kinesis and King's Shield.
The main thing here is that, if a pre-evolution gets a move, the evolution should be able to obtain that move because it can't just lose a move through evolution. This is just a rule made by the base games.

Anyway couple of sets
:ss/cinderace:
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Swords Dance/Spikes/Clangorous Soul
Obvious top tier, Libero is a broken ability and it gets STAB on fighting+ghost coverage which is completely insane. You just need these two moves to have perfect neutral coverage so the two last moves are basically anything you want. It can abuse U-turn+Spikes just like Greninja could or can just set up with whatever move you want.

:ss/excadrill:
Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
Little Set-up sweeper set I made. Drilbur gives Diamond Storm and Dragon Ascent both of which are incredible coverage move for it. You can also go with swords dance+espeed but in short, D is great for exca.

:ss/palossand:
Palossand @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Parting Shot
- Shore Up
- Sticky Web
This thing improves so much with now having access to spectral thief, Parting shot to pivot and literally anything in last slot, super fang, spirit shackle, strength sap or any hazard of your choice. This seems like a very good defensive pokemon with a lot of utility.

:ss/moltres:
Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Muddy Water
- Magma Storm
- Roost
- U-turn
Personally not a pokemon I've used but apparently it's good and it gets Magma Storm now so maybe it's decent.

:ss/mamoswine:
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Precipice Blades
- Spectral Thief
- Spikes
Another S user except this one is here for its access to Precipice Blade which is a really strong ground STAB. Of course, it can still use sets like Swords Dance+Shore Up and has access to Parting Shot so that's nice.

:ss/swampert:
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Flip Turn
- Shore Up
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
Hehe swampert with healing.
 
Pre-Evolution clause sounds like an extremely bad idea. Some Pokémon get nothing, many get grossly inflated movepools (for example Cinderace gets S and R on top of C). It's just a degree of unnecessary complexity that only breaks things.

Why is Kartana banned? The only new moves it learns are Kinesis and King's Shield.
I disagree that it adds that much of a problem and while Cinderace gets a ton, the testing I've had with Morytha has shown that you often end up running Clang, CC, Crabhammer, and a tech move anyway. Cinderace is definitely a top-tier mon for sure; it's definitely going to be an A+/S mon. That said, it handily loses to Prankster Topsy-Turvy, strong priority, Unaware (particularly Clefable), phazing, Pex (unless they run Electro Ball), and fast scarfers.

Prevo Clause definitely has the potential to be a mess, but it was inspired by STAB allowing prevo typings (which is responsible for the literal poster star of the format) and while it sounds like a lot, it's less expansive than one would think. Of the three-stage lines, a ton of them have little or no variation in their lettering (Charmander|Charmeleon|Charizard, etc.) and of the ones that do, a lot of them won't opt to use those letters anyway, let alone all of them. Don't get me wrong - I'm not opposed to repealing it, but I don't think it's worthy of just being stripped immediately, if that makes sense.

Kartana is banned, frankly, because it's still Kartana; that said, it'll probably be one of the first mons suspected to come down and I think it's likely to join the main crew.

Just decided to read through the OP and stuff and having Spore banned seems pretty wack. I mean yes it's Spore and Spore is dumb, but Sleep Powder is legal anyway. It's just a decision that introduces even more luck into the game, because Sleep is broken enough to be worth running but now unreliable enough to mess with people. I think you'd be better off banning both or neither.
You make a really good point and Spore is definitely Spore - you're on the money that still having wide access to Sleep Powder is definitely just a half-step away from the same problem. I can talk to Morytha and see if we should add Sleep Powder to the banlist. This was a good catch and it's very possible there are some things like this that slipped through the cracks. To be honest, both Glacial Lance and Spectrier almost escaped the banlist and we only caught them roughly a day or two ago. All in the process, you know?
 
I would recommend having this in the OP, along with instructions as to how to set it by name, to make it easier to everybody to see what mons learn what.

Second, should pre-evolution clause be a thing:

Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Stealth Rock/Spikes/Sticky Web
- Spectral Thief
- Glare

Goodra with recovery :)

Also, why is ther a section of mons that get nothing? What's the point?

gonna post the link bigger
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_moves

Its a list of moves that can be arranged to be in alphabetical order
 
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HELLO.

I have many fun and cool things

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunderous Kick
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Trick

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell
- Volt Switch

Clefable @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
- Court Change

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Teleport

Tapu Lele @ Burn Drive
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Terrain Pulse
- Moonblast
- Techno Blast
- Calm Mind

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- No Retreat

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Sacred Fire
- Swords Dance

Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Dynamax Cannon
- Shadow Ball
- U-turn

Aegislash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Flash Cannon
- Astral Barrage
- Close Combat

Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Fire Blast
- Quiver Dance
- Soft-Boiled

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

Aegislash @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Doom Desire
- Astral Barrage
- Aura Sphere

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Chill Drive
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Techno Blast
- Taunt
- Nasty Plot

I think it's a very decent variety of things to get people started. It's a lot of stuff I've messed with myself.
  • There are a lot of good special attackers now thanks to good boosts in coverage option.
    • Notable examples being Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, and Thundurus all getting access to Techno Blast, Dragapult getting Dragon Energy, and Aegislash getting Astral Barrage and Doom Desire.
    • Nidoking is another decent Pokemon to mention, as it gains access to No Retreat and Nasty Plot, both of which are useful to it.
  • The meta is probably gonna have a lot of good bulky Water types as it evolves.
    • The most noteworthy to me are Toxapex of course, and maybe Suicune and Swampert.
  • As of now, I haven't used much in the way of physical attackers, but my thoughts on what I have used:
    • Cinderace is very clearly an incredible Pokemon to run, being able to have access to all C, R, and S moves.
      • Gains access to great moves like Sacred Fire, Close Combat, Spectral Thief, Swords Dance, and so many others.
      • Definitely on the watch list for the two of us, we're keeping a close eye on it in case it gets up to no good.
    • Terrakion is also able to take advantage of a Choice Scarf + Trick set, alongside the new Thunderous Kick to wear down bulky Pokemon overtime, and neuter their options for tanking hits.
 
Now for some of my favorite sets for the meta so far. These are things I either use on my teams and/or think are meta-viable.
:ss/buzzwole:
Buzzwole @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD (Or Max Attack / Def)
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Body Press
- Substitute / Roost / Attack
- Substitute / Roost / Attack

This thing gets STAB Body Press and loves every minute of it. Having identical atk/def stats and access to Bulk Up means that this thing can run pretty much anything in the second two slots. This also gets access to Bolt Strike, which is excellent for it and really helps it nail Pex.

:ss/cinderace:
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Close Combat
- Crabhammer
- Electro Ball

The offensive king. Morytha (and others) talked about Cinderace before, and for good reason. Personally, I really love Clangorous Soul sets for it, because the speed boost helps it get past slower scarfers, the extra bulk stops it from getting chipped by weaker prio, and the spatk boost (combined with Electro Ball) helps it also kill Pex, which otherwise is a pretty great check to it. Crabhammer is a super strong move with great neutral coverage and a boosted crit chance. It's definitely approaching degrees to being memey, but it has a slight potential to break unaware Clef, which otherwise absolutely walls it.

Libero is one heck of a drug.

:ss/dragapult:
Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Energy
- Hex / Shadow Ball
- Discharge / Tech
- Doom Desire / Tech

This is my personal set for Pult. Dragon Energy is a must, and beyond that, it's like picking the other three moves on Dracovish during those days: they're just glad to be mentioned. I like double STAB with Discharge for speed control/bulky waters, and my tech option is Doom Desire. It's not amazing, but it can be great for mindgames and can threaten fairies.

:ss/silvally-fairy:
Silvally-Fairy @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Other Hazard
- Spikes / Other Hazard
- Soft-Boiled / Strength Sap
- Parting Shot

The king of balanced. This is the set I like to run on it, but you can literally pick any two hazards (including Toxic Spikes, thanks to Type Null!) and slap them on. I've seen some folks run just one hazard and Spectral Thief for the first two slots, and that can be great as well. I do run the atypical Soft-Boiled to help recover against Sub-heavy teams, but that's just my personal taste. Parting Shot is Parting Shot, and for a pivot, it's all but perfect. I've tinkered a bit with intentionally making this fella slower, but I haven't found what really works best in that department yet.

:ss/rotom-mow:
Rotom-Mow @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Leaf Storm / Tech
- Volt Switch

If Silvally is the king of balanced, this is the queen. I prefer running Rotom-Mow over the others to help with not worrying about rocks/powder moves/leech seed, along with giving me more freedom with my item selection. Running a faster set with Choice / Trick is also really great for hurting stall teams and setup mons.

:ss/thundurus:
Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Topsy-Turvy
- Taunt
- Toxic Spikes / Tailwind / Tech
- Volt Switch

This is rapidly becoming one of my favorite mons for this meta. Prankster Topsy-Turvy completely shuts down setup-heavy teams, and it's arguably even better than haze, because it really punishes over-committing. Prankster Taunt is always great. Volt Switch can help threaten Pex a bit and is obviously just a great move, with STAB nonetheless. That remaining slot is up for your pick of tech options. I did toy around with Prankster Choiced Trick, and that could be really funny.

:ss/corviknight:
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Cotton Guard
- Body Press
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

This thing is a monster. The first two moves give it a ton of power on bulky offense teams, and the fact that it gets Rapid Spin is great. I like Recover over Roost to avoid getting caught with a slow EQ, etc, but YMMV.

:ss/volcanion:
Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Steam Eruption
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch

This is a fantastic offensive pivot. STAB V-Create puts in work, even with little to no investment, and Volt Switch helps keep momentum. The other two moves are up to you, but I like these two for the double STAB and good coverage. Scorching Sands is also an option.

:ss/aerodactyl:
Aerodactyl
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Accelerock
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake

This thing loves access to two great new STAB options. Honestly, I just love this thing and it can be a great cleaner.

:ss/magearna:
Magearna @ Fire Memory
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Milk Drink / Coverage
- Multi-Attack
- Meteor Mash

This is my Magearna set, and I do think it could create problems very quickly. Shift Gear is insane, and access to Meteor Mash and Multi-Attack makes it much harder to wall. Your memory choice can change to suit your team's needs as well. Milk Drink almost feels overkill with how quickly this thing can steamroll, especially if it's built for speed instead of bulk, but Mag can always be a great tank thanks to the recovery it totally needed to be good.

This is for some sets that are mostly just on-paper right now. I guess you could say this is the "what-if" category. Likely more to come in the future as we tinker with the banlist and the meta evolves.
:ss/melmetal:
Melmetal @ Burn Drive
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Multi-Attack
- Mach Punch / Coverage
- Milk Drink

This was a hypothetical set where I was wondering if Melmetal could come down if DIB was banned outright. Again, this is all just a game theory.
Meteor Mash is always great, and it can help pick up momentum. Multi-Attack is great for coverage. Mach Punch I think honestly isn't that great, but having prio on a very slow mon like this can be good. Also the boost from Iron Fist is cool I guess. Milk Drink definitely helps its survival.
One of the reasons I think this can potentially come down is that there's so much more special coverage available, particularly in the fire-move category. Don't get me wrong, this thing could still be great, but I don't see it being unbeatable by any means, especially with Sacred Fire also completely crippling it.

:ss/blaziken:
Blaziken @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Bolt Strike
- Close Combat
- Blaze Kick / Coverage

This is a set I was working on to test how good Belly Drum is. I haven't had an opportunity to use this on a team yet (especially given that Cinderace is a very similar role in my opinion), but it's really powerful on paper. Bolt Strike also helps it kill Pex. I guess you could run Bullet Punch to help with fairies? Not sure how much that would help. I still think Clef is a great unaware wall, as always.

:ss/regigigas:
Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Role Play
- Recover
- Power-Up Punch
- Body Slam

I'll be honest in saying that this is a really dumb idea for any variety of reasons not to mention the horrible STAB options but I think it was worth mentioning.

Huge warning with the below set. I would not recommend opening this near children or people with a heart condition.
IMG_4207.JPG

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Earth Power
- Water Spout
- Focus Blast

This is perhaps the most dangerous and forbidden set ever to be revealed on this forum. It is said that trainers that dare use this set are doomed to eternal suffering somehow worse than 2020 has already been.
 
Glad we got another new om, can't wait to test some sets.

In the mean time i'm gonna post my thoughts on some mons

:cinderace:

This thing probably gonna be so broken, CC, Spectral, Crabhammer, probably gonna get banned

:dragonite:

Gets Dragon Ascent and Dragon Darts, all it needs really

:corviknight:

This gains some good defensive utility in Rapid Spin and Roar, probably not gonna be used as much but can definitely prove to be decent.

:dragapult:

Dragon's Energy moment

:regieleki:

Razor Leaf

Will edit the post if i find more
 
We updated the main post with our newest banlist changes.

- As many of you had predicted, Cinderace is now banned. Its access to a nutty movepool in addition its already great stats/ability was too much of a problem.
- Sleep Powder is banned. Thanks to MZ for catching this!
- Kartana is unbanned. Thanks to Talpr0ne and many others for mentioning this!

Next steps:
- Some more tinkering with the banlist/watchlist.
One idea right now is banning DIB completely and bringing Melmetal down. Mentioned some details on this in an earlier post.​
- Creating a VR. With how new this meta is, this will probably be something very prone to change.
- Creating Improving the available resources in a number of ways; one big thing is taking all of this data and putting it into something more useful and readable.
 
Good mons:

:ss/blaziken:
Blaziken @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Blue Flare
- Bolt Strike/Close Combat/Bullet Seed/Trop Kick/Triple Axel

Blaziken @ Chill Drive
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind/Clangourous Soul
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute/Focus Blast/Techno Blast

Weird this mon isn't mentioned anywhere in the OP. Look at all the stuff it gets :psycry:


:ss/naganadel:
Naganadel @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- No Retreat
- Dragon Pulse/U-turn/Parting Shot
- Sludge Wave/U- turn/Parting Shot
- Fire Blast/U-turn/Parting Shot

No. Retreat. Naganadel.

These mons are very clearly Ubers, but I don't see them on the banlist, so it this a mistake?
 
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Good mons:

:ss/blaziken:
Blaziken @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Blue Flare
- Bolt Strike/Close Combat/Bullet Seed/Trop Kick/Triple Axel

Blaziken @ Chill Drive
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind/Clangourous Soul
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute/Focus Blast/Techno Blast

Weird this mon isn't mentioned anywhere in the OP. Look at all the stuff it gets :psycry:


:ss/naganadel:
Naganadel @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- No Retreat
- Dragon Pulse/U-turn/Parting Shot
- Sludge Wave/U- turn/Parting Shot
- Fire Blast/U-turn/Parting Shot

No. Retreat. Naganadel.

These mons are very clearly Ubers, but I don't see them on the banlist, so it this a mistake?
What are you talking about? Naga was always on the banlist. Shhhhh

We haven't played around with Blaziken enough where it felt right to make it a big part of the discussion mostly because Cinderace was still around but it's definitely high on our list. On paper, it definitely seems really nutty and if you see me online on PS, I'd be happy to test it (and anything else) with you!
 
:ss/bisharp:
Bisharp @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Power Trip
- Bullet Punch / Behemoth Bash [or Blade] / Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Honestly, a wild set I theorized about while thinking about this OM. Bisharp gets access to both moves from B and P courtesy of its pre-evo Pawniard. Belly Drum ridiculously boosts its attack by 6 stages (which puts it at 1532 attack!) and Power Trip paired with Belly Drum gives Bisharp Access to a 140 BP STAB Physical Dark-type move. Moreover, it gets access to another STAB priority move via Bullet Punch, otherwise it gets access to Behemoth Bash and Blade too, which are strong Steel-type STABs. Iron Head is an option to conserve PP while having decent power as Behemoth Bash has only 8 PP. Bisharp already has access to Sucker Punch which is already a nice STAB priority move to have. I definitely see this being a huge win condition for any team that opts to use Bisharp as it has huge potential to clean teams unprepared for it.
 
• A lot of letters get almost nothing. J, K, Q (other than Quiver Dance), U (other than U-Turn), X, Y, and Z are all left mostly for dead.
Seeing this got me kind of curious, actually, so I did a little digging around to see if there was anything possibly worth it in these. Nothing of note in J, Q or U, but the others at least have something worth considering for some more unusual sets.
  • K: Knock Off can give a few things a (more) useful Dark move (Kommo-o, Kingdra, and Urshifu-Single Strike are the main ones in mind), while King's Shield is... actually just a straight upgrade to Protect! Probably most useful on Kommo-o since it's the tankiest thing out of the K 'mons. Or Alakazam as a scouter for physical attacks, because a ton of people are going to likely try knocking it out physically. Which means it can switch to something safe while also lowering the enemy's attack.
  • X: Only has X-Scissor, and both valid things are special leaning. Xurkitree might be able to use it as an off-stat coverage move, but it's not likely to be as useful as Power Whip is.
  • Y: Literally just Yawn. Either of Yamask's evolutions can probably spend better uses of their time, but forcing a switch or making the target sleep could be nice for Hex Cofagrigus against foes that like having status.
  • Z: Obstagoon appreciates the access to a physical psychic move in Zen Headbutt, which lets it do a chunk of damage if it predicts the foe switching into a fighting type. Probably kinda niche, but it's there. Zarude that want to have an item rather than use Acrobatics is in a similar case.
 
Updated the OP:

For the time being, Melmetal will be legal! Double Iron Bash will be banned outright. Like mentioned before, our hope is to see if :melmetal: can live peacefully with the meta's increased access to special/fire moves along with its loss of Double Iron Bash.

:ss/Melmetal:

Melmetal @ Fire Memory
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Multi-Attack
- Mach Punch
- Milk Drink

This lad gets access to a ton of wonderful things. It may have lost one of the better moves in the game, but its by no means at a loss.
Meteor Mash is its go-to move and it can:snowball:quite easily under the right circumstances.

Multi-Attack is the strong coverage it has dreamed of. While it does have to forfeit its item, we think access to literally any 120BP coverage it wants more than makes up for it.

Mach Punch is priority and gets a boost from Iron Fist. While it seems really nice on paper, and it probably is amazing in-battle, we haven't found this to be that wonderful, over, say, another coverage move. YMMV. We definitely need to look into it more!

Milk Drink is one of the big reasons it doesn't mind losing an item. Getting reliable recovery is fantastic, and it shows.

We've found this most beneficial on Trick Room teams (to no one's surprise), but it definitely has the potential to hold its own on a Bulky Offense / Balanced team as well.

- Also updated the post now that Crown Tundra Pokemon images are compatible with BBCode.
 

The Immortal

is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
I have added a poll regarding the Prevo Clause. The result of this poll will decide the future of this concept. Because Alphabet Cup has not given access to pre-evolution letters in the past, the poll will require 60% majority to change the concept. The poll will run for one week and votes are valid for accounts created before today. Any votes from older alt accounts will be invalid as well.

alaserdolphin
 

Quantum Tesseract

No Longer Dead
is a Community Contributor
I think Pokemon should be allowed to inherit moves from their pre-evolutions. The precedent from Stabmons is both clear and good, and reflects a wider way of examining these issues. In Pokemon, if Charmander learns something, so does Charizard. Pokemon always have the movepool of their lower evolutions, plus sometimes moves only they get. That's true for level up moves, egg moves, TM moves, tutor moves, event moves, etcetera. The only exception is Larvesta learning Flare Blitz at level 100, which is too late for it to evolve into Volcarona, and it gets it as an egg move anyway. And even if, then, that was our precedent - moves are learned at level 100, or something - you couldn't have level 99 slow pivot Pokemon with the Alphability mechanic, and plenty of pokemon that don't evolve by level up like Ninetales would still get access.
 
I think Pokemon should be allowed to inherit moves from their pre-evolutions. The precedent from Stabmons is both clear and good, and reflects a wider way of examining these issues. In Pokemon, if Charmander learns something, so does Charizard. Pokemon always have the movepool of their lower evolutions, plus sometimes moves only they get. That's true for level up moves, egg moves, TM moves, tutor moves, event moves, etcetera. The only exception is Larvesta learning Flare Blitz at level 100, which is too late for it to evolve into Volcarona, and it gets it as an egg move anyway. And even if, then, that was our precedent - moves are learned at level 100, or something - you couldn't have level 99 slow pivot Pokemon with the Alphability mechanic, and plenty of pokemon that don't evolve by level up like Ninetales would still get access.
Even then, Gen 8 made it so that using a Rare Candy on a Pokemon at level 100 will make them evolve if they meet the requirements.
 
I saw Weavile being on the ban list, which may seem weird since on its own, it's not an overpowered or overcentralizing Pokémon like Librero Cinderace. But then the principal reason why it is was because of access to multiple strong S moves through Sneasel (Sucker Punch, Sunsteel Strike, Superpower, Spirit Break vs Fighting-type, Shell Smash, Sacred Sword, Sacred Fire, Scale Shot), many of which Weavile benefits very much from it.

But that's only the tip of the iceberg. Weavile is the only W Pokémon with Dark-type STAB of Wicked Blow, and it is physical too! Which means not only Weavile is faster than Urshifu, but this means it could just equip Choice Band/Scarf and demolish anything or 2HKO everything that does not resist to Dark.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adamant Weavile Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 163-193 (53.6 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Jolly Weavile Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 150-177 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Jolly Weavile Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 367-433 (52.2 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Jolly Weavile Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


If this thing foregoes Choice Band/Scarf and instead opt to set up a Shell Smash - provided it forces a switch on the opponent or use Focus Sash and hope for no entry hazard on Weavile's side - there will be fewer things to survive a Wicked Blow, and only an Unaware or priority will save you; not even a Choice Scarf Dragapult or a Jolly Regieleki would hope to outrun this thing.

Absolute constraint on teambuilding if this was allowed to run, and thankfully the ban was for the better.
 

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