Alright, November stats for Shoddy are up, let's discuss

Few things I wanted to say; Not surprised at all for Bliss and Chomp. I don't understand why Taylor thinks Blissey will lose the #1 spot in the future. I don't see it happening. The closest things to a comparative special wall would be Cradily and Snorlax. One can't attack and the latter has shit recovery.

I agree on the Gyara comments though. I'd rather set up SR or get my sandstorm/hail in then force a switch with intimidate that won't give me much of an early advantage. The Hippo killer argument fails too since Hippo's main job is to get the SS going and SR when it has the chance to. (which is inevitable since it'll come in easily on most physical attackers) Only time I'd run a Gyara as lead would be a scarfer or bander.

Tenta should definantly be moved up to at least BL. Whether it's Obi's RMT or people realizing it's potential, Tenta in definition is definantly not UU anymore.

Great Sage's list shows how much Ninjask blows, just like last month's rating. (-7)

And finally, I completely agree with X-act. All 6 pokemon in each team on ladder need to be counted instead of just the ones sent out in battle. Most high ranked players on ladder usually only show 3-5 pokemon per match and that's only if they have to. Considering most players don't reveal their trump cards/ later game swepers/ check mates,etc. until very late game means that some pokemon aren't represented very well. For example, Blissey almost always comes in during a match since most teams carry at least 1 special attacker. Utility pokes are introduced before the frail pokemon are so that can be misrepresenting.
 
Note that the definition of a "usage" was on the page last month as well.

There are two reasons why usage has been defined this way. One is pragmatic: the statistics were obtained through parsing battle logs, and logs do not record pokemon who were not sent out. The other is more philosophical. If a pokemon is not sent out, was it really used? The battle could have proceeded in exactly the same way with any pokemon in that slot. (The only exceptions to this are Beat Up and Assist, neither of which is common.)

I suppose one argument for counting all of the pokemon is that not doing so tends to favour the loser of a match insofar as if you just need one pokemon to defeat the opponent team, they get to count six usages, while you only get to count one. However, is this necessarily a bad thing? The other pokemon in your team were not used in such a battle; they could have been any pokemon. Additionally, since the opponent here is probably quite bad, his usages will count for less on the weighted list.

Suppose you have a pokemon on your team whom you only send out in obscure circumstances, say every five matches. I think counting only times he is actually sent out is an advantage here because it more accurately represents how often he is actually used. In the extreme case, suppose you have an awful pokemon on your team, whom you never send out, since there is just no use for him. I doubt anyone would argue this pokemon is being "used" (unless he is set out by Roar or Whirlwind, in which case he will be counted), so only counting the battles in which he is sent out gives us a more accurate picture of how popular he is.

Next month (at least from December 3rd onward) we will also have a list that includes pokemon who were not used in a battle, but I don't think we can appropriately call this a "usage" list.
 
Amazing Ampharos said:
I'm still interested in the 95% statistic that dragontamer proposed for the October stats. I think the best definition for OU is "the Pokemon that were among 95% of Pokemon appearances in the month prior". Last month, it was 57 Pokemon. I wonder how big it is this time.
Click to expand...

Aight, here's the new list. (Didn't think anyone would actually ask / care for it...)

Code: 
   1. Blissey (41.73 %)
   2. Garchomp (33.64 %)
   3. Gengar (28.14 %)
   4. Tyranitar (24.65 %)
   5. Gyarados (23.83 %)
   6. Salamence (22.74 %)
   7. Infernape (22.59 %)
   8. Skarmory (21.05 %)
   9. Cresselia (20.24 %)
  10. Bronzong (19.85 %)
  11. Weavile (19.63 %)
  12. Forretress (18.58 %)
  13. Metagross (17.73 %)
  14. Swampert (17.5 %)
  15. Starmie (17.37 %)
  16. Heatran (16.76 %)
  17. Gliscor (15.58 %)
  18. Heracross (14.86 %)
  19. Breloom (14.57 %)
  20. Dusknoir (13.45 %)
  21. Lucario (12.88 %)
  22. Hippowdon (12.78 %)
  23. Electivire (11.98 %)
  24. Togekiss (11.28 %)
  25. Donphan (11.22 %)
  26. Porygonz (11.11 %)
  27. Azelf (10.43 %)
  28. Tentacruel (10.27 %)
  29. Yanmega (9.71 %)
  30. Vaporeon (9.08 %)
  31. Scizor (9 %)
  32. Jirachi (8.54 %)
  33. Magnezone (8.52 %)
  34. Spiritomb (8.27 %)
  35. Mamoswine (7.65 %)
  36. Milotic (7.4 %)
  37. Dragonite (7.35 %)
  38. Snorlax (7.22 %)
  39. Weezing (7.13 %)
  40. Machamp (6.74 %)
  41. Ninjask (6.54 %)
  42. Jolteon (6.34 %)
  43. Zapdos (6.3 %)
  44. Roserade (6.21 %)
  45. Dugtrio (6.06 %)
  46. Abomasnow (5.99 %)
  47. Alakazam (5.96 %)
  48. Celebi (5.74 %)
  49. Umbreon (5.67 %)
  50. Suicune (5.56 %)
  51. Gallade (5.26 %)
  52. Froslass (5.12 %)
  53. Ambipom (5.05 %) <-------- 95% mark
  54. Cradily (4.66 %)
  55. Crobat (4.63 %)
  56. Claydol (4.53 %)
  57. Rhyperior (4.49 %)
  58. Sceptile (4.42 %)
  59. Aerodactyl (4.36 %)
  60. Tangrowth (4.32 %)
  61. Kingdra (4.22 %)
  62. Slowbro (4.18 %)
  63. Staraptor (4.16 %)
  64. Empoleon (4.15 %)
  65. Charizard (3.95 %)
  66. Blastoise (3.65 %)
  67. Arcanine (3.59 %)
  68. Mismagius (3.57 %)
  69. Clefable (3.43 %)
  70. Houndoom (3.39 %)
  71. Azumarill (3.28 %)
  72. Smeargle (3.27 %)
  73. Miltank (3.2 %)
  74. Medicham (3.1 %)
  75. Typhlosion (3.03 %)
  76. Ludicolo (2.73 %)
  77. Poliwrath (2.67 %)
  78. Gardevoir (2.55 %)
  79. Flygon (2.54 %)
  80. Hitmontop (2.49 %)
  81. Raikou (2.47 %)
  82. Hariyama (2.4 %)
  83. Blaziken (2.32 %)
  84. Shuckle (2.31 %)
  85. Feraligatr (2.28 %)
  86. Steelix (2.26 %)
  87. Walrein (2.25 %)
  88. Toxicroak (2.21 %)
  89. Venusaur (2.2 %)
  90. Rotom (2.16 %)
  91. Drapion (2.15 %)
  92. Cloyster (2.13 %)
  93. Magmortar (2.09 %)
  94. Ninetales (2.06 %)
  95. Rampardos (2.02 %)
  96. Marowak (1.94 %)
  97. Jumpluff (1.9 %)
  98. Hitmonchan (1.88 %)
  99. Porygon2 (1.87 %)
 100. Swellow (1.86 %)

This month there are 53 pokemon in the list of pokemon you'll find in 95% of your battles. Both Tentacruel and Froslass are still considered OU by this mark, interestingly enough. (CLEARLY tentacruel)

Considering Colin's new "leads" statistic, here are the leads you'd encounter 99% of the time.

Code: 
   1. Gyarados (18.96 %)
   2. Hippowdon (16.93 %)
   3. Salamence (14.91 %)
   4. Gengar (14.46 %)
   5. Tyranitar (13.69 %)
   6. Bronzong (11.6 %)
   7. Weavile (11.42 %)
   8. Swampert (11.41 %)
   9. Infernape (9.66 %)
  10. Abomasnow (9.63 %)
  11. Yanmega (9.3 %)
  12. Breloom (9.16 %)
  13. Forretress (8.69 %)
  14. Ninjask (8.57 %)
  15. Roserade (6.82 %)
  16. Crobat (6.54 %)
  17. Metagross (6.25 %)
  18. Jolteon (6.23 %)
  19. Ambipom (6.23 %) <---- 95% mark
  20. Staraptor (4.86 %)
  21. Zapdos (4.68 %)
  22. Aerodactyl (4.61 %)
  23. Azelf (4.43 %)
  24. Garchomp (4.19 %)
  25. Alakazam (4 %)
  26. Heracross (3.99 %)
  27. Togekiss (3.85 %)
  28. Skarmory (3.78 %)
  29. Smeargle (3.44 %)
  30. Machamp (3.19 %)
  31. Starmie (3.1 %)
  32. Scizor (2.95 %)
  33. Porygonz (2.88 %)
  34. Typhlosion (2.79 %)
  35. Lucario (2.54 %)
  36. Spiritomb (2.41 %)
  37. Donphan (2.39 %)
  38. Kingdra (2.28 %)
  39. Medicham (2.28 %)
  40. Heatran (2.27 %)
  41. Tauros (2.12 %)
  42. Sceptile (2.1 %)
  43. Jirachi (1.98 %)
  44. Umbreon (1.92 %)
  45. Persian (1.75 %)
  46. Shuckle (1.73 %)
  47. Flygon (1.66 %)
  48. Gliscor (1.57 %)
  49. Tentacruel (1.57 %)
  50. Froslass (1.56 %)
  51. Floatzel (1.52 %)
  52. Gallade (1.46 %)
  53. Venusaur (1.42 %)
  54. Jumpluff (1.32 %)
  55. Nidoqueen (1.29 %)
  56. Dusknoir (1.27 %)
  57. Butterfree (1.21 %)
  58. Magmortar (1.19 %)
  59. Mamoswine (1.18 %)
  60. Hariyama (1.13 %)
  61. Arcanine (1.11 %)
  62. Hitmonlee (1.08 %)
  63. Charizard (1.04 %)
  64. Nidoking (1.03 %)
  65. Cresselia (1.02 %)
  66. Slaking (1.02 %)
  67. Dragonite (1.02 %)
  68. Rhyperior (1.02 %)

So if you want to counter 95% of ladder leads, you'll want a lead that beats Ambipom and above. If you want t counter 99% of leads, you'll want a lead that beats everyone on this list.
 
That's fine, that's fine. I didn't say that the statistics are wrong; I just said that I'd prefer to take Pokemon who actually form part in teams to be considered as OU, and not just those that appear most during the match.

Dragontamer, I needed to ask you this question for the other month as well. What are you taking as 100% for your lists? And are you using the point system list, or the number of usage list? How are you finding out the number of matches played? I searched in the Shoddybattle site but I couldn't find it.
 
X-Act said:
That's fine, that's fine. I didn't say that the statistics are wrong; I just said that I'd prefer to take Pokemon who actually form part in teams to be considered as OU, and not just those that appear most during the match.

Dragontamer, I needed to ask you this question for the other month as well. What are you taking as 100% for your lists? And are you using the point system list, or the number of usage list? How are you finding out the number of matches played? I searched in the Shoddybattle site but I couldn't find it.
Click to expand...

I wrote two perl programs. Here they are:

Blah.pl
Code: 
#! /usr/bin/perl

my $total = 0;

while(<STDIN>){
        if($_ =~ "(.*?) \((.*?) usages)"){
                $total = $total + $2;
        }
}

print "$total is the total";

Blah2.pl
Code: 
#! /usr/bin/perl

while(<STDIN>){
        if ( $_ =~ m/(.*?) \((.*?) usages/){
                $tmp = $2 / 83436.0 * 10000;
                $tmp = sprintf("%d", $tmp)/100;
                print("$1 ($tmp %)\n");
        }
}

The text is actually quite easy to disassemble and parse.

Anyway, the "total" is the total number of usages, as determined by blah.pl (that is, 34825 (Blissey) + 28071(garchomp) + etc. etc. etc. Blah2.pl generates the text. I change this line $tmp = $2 / 83436.0 * 10000; to whatever the total was. In November, the total happened to be 83436 (as blah.pl calculated).

Yeah, I need better names for the programs, but they're like, 5 lines long >_>
 
20. Staraptor (4.86 %)

Not surprised at all.

96. Marowak (1.94 %)
97. Jumpluff (1.9 %)
98. Hitmonchan (1.88 %)

IIRC, Maro and Jumpluff were both OU last gen. o_o And Hitmonchan was NU (or UU, I remember reading a lot about in on UU Stadium...)
 
in terms of leading, i cant believe that Swellow falls below

nidoqueen
persian
butterfree
tentacrule
Venusaur
Nidoking

and a couple other poke.
that thing gets u turn & pursuit plus guts activation! i love my swellow as a lead. when it OHKO's swampert kids just dont know what to do.
 
Leads:
58. Magmortar (1.19 %)

Overall:
93. Magmortar (2.09 %)

I do believe I am partly responsible for this :-D.

Anyway, this is cool now that we have tracking on all this.
 
I have three things to address concerning this list. The first one would be, Rotom? Wha? The second thing would be that I am surprised Regirock is not higher on the list. It's an excellent physical wall, despite it's weakness to Ground and Fighting, and with Sandstorm running around everywhere, it can provide as a great Special Wall too. It can also explode. Maybe that's just my view. The third would be Electivire's place as 23rd. It's obvious it's no longer overhyped, but I still don't believe it's good enough to warrant even being in the top 30.
 
Ulevo said:
I have three things to address concerning this list. The first one would be, Rotom? Wha?
Click to expand...

*raises hand*

Rotom is a surprisingly awesome lead. Tricking Specs onto Gyrados or Hippo screw them over, and if you decide not too, you can always stab Bolt/Shadow Ball off of 400+ Sp.Atk
 
I have three things to address concerning this list. The first one would be, Rotom? Wha?
Click to expand...

Most likely due to myself and bologo who have used him religiously for some time now...although claiming credit for a Pokemon's usage seems a little odd. :)

Rotom is a surprisingly awesome lead.
Click to expand...

Considering the popularity of Gengar, Weavile, Tyranitar, Salamence and Infernape leads, I'm inclined to disagree. Rotom's power lies in his ability to switch in with ease...sorta nullified if he leads.

Agreeing with DragonTamer too. 95% seems like a great cut-off point and it seems logical for those Pokemon to be OU. For reference, here is a list of the Pokemon in the top 95% who are not currently ranked as OU.

28. Tentacruel (UU)
31. Scizor (BL)
34. Spiritomb (BL)
35. Mamoswine (UU)
36. Milotic (BL)
38. Snorlax (BL)
41. Ninjask (BL)
42. Jolteon (BL)
44. Roserade (BL)
46. Abomasnow (BL)
47. Alakazam (BL)
49. Umbreon (BL)
51. Gallade (BL)
52. Froslass (UU)
53. Ambipom (BL)

The only question is, is OU big enough for 53 Pokemon?
 
Ulevo said:
I have three things to address concerning this list. The first one would be, Rotom? Wha?
Click to expand...

As one of the most loyal Rotom users out there, I am obviously partly responsible for this, but for good reasons:

- Rotom has 5 resistances and 3 immunities, this means that it can switch in on so many attacks that it's not even funny with just a little defense investment

- Trick is incredibly useful, especially for screwing up baton pass chains and stallers such as Blissey

- Great choice for blocking Rapid Spin since Starmie, Tentacruel and Donphan all get destroyed in some way by Rotom (Thunderbolt for the first two and Will-O-Wisp/Hidden Power Ice for Donphan), also is immune to Toxic Spikes and Spikes.

- Magnificent Gyarados counter with Trick and Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave, then can also OHKO with Thunderbolt

- Kicks Skarmory's ass with Thunderbolt before it can whirlwind, and can also Trick a bad item onto it, or just cripple with a status move if the item's already tricked off, can also do the same kind of strategy to many other walls

- Double statusing to neuter several pokemon is awesome, and not many pokemon can boast Rotom's switch inducing ability with the unique resistances and immunities and the ability to do both Will-O-Wisp AND Thunder Wave, yes there are a couple more pokemon that can pull off that combo, but they have a lot more trouble switching in


Heh, that's my reasons for why Rotom usage has increased so much IMO.
 
Alakazam isn't OU, that think is amazing with choice specs! Also Scizor has 130 attack and decent defenses, I'm confused :(.
 
Rotom's defenses are terrible, it barely takes 2x resisted attacks. It boasts the same immunities as Gengar, who can Hypnosis as well as Will-o-Wisp. It doesn't get STAB on Thunderbolt, but can outspeed standard Gyarados even after a single DD, which Rotom can't, and still near OHKO with Thunderbolt. STAB on Thunderbolt and Trick are the only useful things Rotom has over Gengar.
 
lol, I find it funny that Hippowdon is on 13% of all teams, and is used as a lead 20% of the time. lol. Hippo always leads if you use it. Its too good of a lead not to.
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
Rotom's defenses are terrible, it barely takes 2x resisted attacks. It boasts the same immunities as Gengar, who can Hypnosis as well as Will-o-Wisp. It doesn't get STAB on Thunderbolt, but can outspeed standard Gyarados even after a single DD, which Rotom can't, and still near OHKO with Thunderbolt. STAB on Thunderbolt and Trick are the only useful things Rotom has over Gengar.
Click to expand...

That's why Gengar is in 3rd place, it shouldn't really be compared to Rotom. It's pretty obvious that Gengar does the Gyarados countering better than Rotom.

I've actually used Rotom before and I decided to invest a lot of EVs in the defenses and I can say that it takes 2x resisted attacks perfectly fine. Well, I guess I've never really had a problem with Rotom against a Gyarados since I use a Scarfed Rotom, but I'll agree that a non-scarfed one can get destroyed by Waterfall.

Heh, I agree though that it really can't take any hits if it's trying to be a sweeper. It has to be utility or not used.
 
Oh God, I can't face those Hail tems anymore. It's odd too, because my team is Abomasnow weak... Yes, VERY odd to say, but a Mixed one was able to shit on my team quite a bit.

I'm still mad on how Garchomp is #2 as well. Hard ass-thing to counter without a decent Revenge Killer or Cresselia. ;_;

Well, I'm glad Tentacruel is getting much use, as he actually is a pretty good Spinner himself (if not one of the best next to Starmie).

Actually what has been suprising me lately is the popularity of Heracross go down. Still, these numbers change every month anyways, and chances are some Pokemon may recieve higher or lower % of uses. However, I'm sad about Rhyperior loosing ANOTHER DAMN POSITION! However, what made me lol the most (and cry as well) was Aerodactyl. Oh, how also Ninjask leads have gone down 7 places!?! Hot damn, guess Baton Pass isn't much used with him anymore.

Hm, I'm going to consider Colin's list in this guide (which I am going to restart to write again as I think I've FINALLY fixed my computer, and of course, with permission from Colin himself). However, I'm still a "tad" bit confused by these leads:

Code: 
   1. Gyarados (18.96 %)
   2. Hippowdon (16.93 %)
   [B][I]3. Salamence (14.91 %)[/I][/B] <----- I can sort of understand this, but I usually find Salamence to be a better trump card than a starter (but Intimidate is nifty to have).
   [B]4. Gengar (14.46 %)[/B] <----- Scarf, okay.  Anything else... blech.  As such, shouldn't Gengar be afraid of [B]NUMBER 5: TYRANITAR!?![/B]
   5. Tyranitar (13.69 %)
   6. Bronzong (11.6 %)
   7. Weavile (11.42 %)
   8. Swampert (11.41 %)
   [B]9. Infernape (9.66 %)[/B]
  10. Abomasnow (9.63 %)
  11. Yanmega (9.3 %)
  12. Breloom (9.16 %) <----- I can understand this if it's a Double-Powder lead
  13. Forretress (8.69 %)
  14. Ninjask (8.57 %)
  15. Roserade (6.82 %)
  16. Crobat (6.54 %) <----- Ah, seems like Crobat is slowly climbing into glory
  17. Metagross (6.25 %)
  18. Jolteon (6.23 %)
  19. Ambipom (6.23 %) <---- 95% mark
  20. Staraptor (4.86 %)
  21. Zapdos (4.68 %)
  22. Aerodactyl (4.61 %)
  23. Azelf (4.43 %)
  [B]24. Garchomp (4.19 %)[/B] <----- Ok... Now I'm REALLY LOST!
  25. Alakazam (4 %)
  [B]26. Heracross (3.99 %)[/B] <----- Fallen quite a bit, have we?
  27. Togekiss (3.85 %)
  28. Skarmory (3.78 %)
  29. Smeargle (3.44 %)
  30. Machamp (3.19 %)
  [B]31. Starmie (3.1 %)[/B] <----- ...No
  32. Scizor (2.95 %)
  33. Porygonz (2.88 %)
  34. Typhlosion (2.79 %)
  35. Lucario (2.54 %)
  36. Spiritomb (2.41 %)
  37. Donphan (2.39 %)
  38. Kingdra (2.28 %)
  39. Medicham (2.28 %)
  40. Heatran (2.27 %)
  41. Tauros (2.12 %)
  42. Sceptile (2.1 %)
  43. Jirachi (1.98 %)
  44. Umbreon (1.92 %)
  45. Persian (1.75 %)
  46. Shuckle (1.73 %)
  47. Flygon (1.66 %)
  48. Gliscor (1.57 %)
  49. Tentacruel (1.57 %)
  50. Froslass (1.56 %)
  51. Floatzel (1.52 %)
  52. Gallade (1.46 %)
  53. Venusaur (1.42 %)
  54. Jumpluff (1.32 %)
  55. Nidoqueen (1.29 %)
  56. Dusknoir (1.27 %)
  57. Butterfree (1.21 %)
  58. Magmortar (1.19 %)
  59. Mamoswine (1.18 %)
  60. Hariyama (1.13 %)
  61. Arcanine (1.11 %)
  62. Hitmonlee (1.08 %)
  63. Charizard (1.04 %)
  64. Nidoking (1.03 %)
  65. Cresselia (1.02 %)
  66. Slaking (1.02 %)
  67. Dragonite (1.02 %)
  68. Rhyperior (1.02 %)
The ones in bold are more WTF ones, and I sort of added some input. I think I'm going to attempt to look over the starters of each month and use them to change the guide from time to time.
 
Lee said:
Most likely due to myself and bologo who have used him religiously for some time now...although claiming credit for a Pokemon's usage seems a little odd. :)



Considering the popularity of Gengar, Weavile, Tyranitar, Salamence and Infernape leads, I'm inclined to disagree. Rotom's power lies in his ability to switch in with ease...sorta nullified if he leads.

Agreeing with DragonTamer too. 95% seems like a great cut-off point and it seems logical for those Pokemon to be OU. For reference, here is a list of the Pokemon in the top 95% who are not currently ranked as OU.

28. Tentacruel (UU)
31. Scizor (BL)
34. Spiritomb (BL)
35. Mamoswine (UU)
36. Milotic (BL)
38. Snorlax (BL)
41. Ninjask (BL)
42. Jolteon (BL)
44. Roserade (BL)
46. Abomasnow (BL)
47. Alakazam (BL)
49. Umbreon (BL)
51. Gallade (BL)
52. Froslass (UU)
53. Ambipom (BL)

The only question is, is OU big enough for 53 Pokemon?
Click to expand...

Last turn around it was 57 pokemon above the 95% cut-off. Meaning that quite literally, pokemon has become less diversified.

I'd say Smogon should look for long-term trends when making the OU list. Tentacruel is certainly a solid OU pokemon now (its popularity continues to grow) Froslass is iffy, this is the 2nd time it has been in the top 95%, but both times it was at the bottom of the list.
 
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