I actually thought this idea up a while ago but never posted it. However, all these recent topics about Ubers encouraged me to do so. What if there was a simple and effective way to nerf some Ubers, so that they would become eligible for Standard play? Consider the many recent detrimental items introduced this generation such as Iron Ball, Lagging Tail, Burn Orb, Toxic Orb, etc. Now what if we were to allow say Ho-oh into OU, under the condition that it has Iron Ball for a hold item? Suddenly it doesn't seem so broken with an EQ weakness, around 45 base speed, not to mention taking 50% from Stealth Rock.
Other possibilities include:
- Toxic Orb Lugia
- Flame Orb Groudon
- Iron Orb/Lagging Tail Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Darkrai
Before opening the topic up for discussion of the above nerfs or any others you might have thought of, I ask you to please consider what I have to say below on the advantages, limitations, and possibilities which such an arrangement could offer.
First of all, I envisage that the community would decide together which Ubers and with which hold items are allowed into OU (in the same way that the tiers were decided upon). A list would then be posted so that the nerfs become common knowledge to the community. This is to prevent people from coming up with their own nerfs and thereby unbalancing the new metagame (sort of like someone using Scizor in UU, thus unbalancing that metagame). It would also add a sense of formality to the whole thing.
You might be wondering why to stop at items? Why not make movepool limitations, or force Groudon to carry a –Atk nature with 0 Attack IVs for instance? Items are simply a lot easier to regulate, considering you’ll know by the end of the turn whether or not your opponent really gave Groudon a Flame Orb. All the other detrimental items’ presence will also be evident by the end of the turn. It’s a lot harder to regulate IVs EVs and natures for obvious reasons. Limitations on movepool take a way from the Pokemon’s diversity, and let’s face it: it’s a lot easier to remember the one item an Uber is supposed to carry rather than memorize the 4-5 moves each Uber isn’t allowed to use. It will also be a lot harder to reach a consensus on which moves to ban as opposed to which item to enforce, considering how many more moves there are to take into account. There’s also the obvious fact that giving a Flame Orb to Groudon will nerf it a lot more than giving it as low an Attack stat as possible. This is just one of many examples of how item nerfs are the most effective, and therefore the most likely way to make certain Ubers fair play in Standard. Ultimately, nerfing Ubers through items is easy to regulate, is (relatively) easy to reach a consensus on, and is the most effective method available yet.
I’d also like to make a point that by enforcing an item on certain Pokemon, you’re also limiting their versatility (which in turn nerfs them still further). Take Deoxys-A for example: not only will it be extremely slow, the opponent won’t have to wonder whether it has a CB, CS, or LO. In this sense, the item enforcement acts as a double-nerf.
I realize that this item enforcement won’t be enough to nerf some Ubers enough to make them viable enough for Standard play. As of yet I can’t think of any item to nerf Kyogre enough. I invite you all to think of ways to nerf the likes of Palkia, Kyogre, Dialga, and Arceus, but it may simply not be possible.
What I really don’t want to come out of this is an even more over-centralized OU metagame; it’s bad enough as it is. God forbid OU should turn into a “mini-Ubers” of sorts. One solution might be to only introduce 2-3 Ubers. However, I think the ideal solution would be to nerf the Ubers, wherever possible, to the extent that they become BL/ low OU level Pokemon. But good luck with making Groudon BL-worthy. Something like Deoxys-A with a Lagging Tail however I could easily see as BL, only able to come in on something like Umbreon (a bit of exaggeration here of course). Maybe we should only enforce Iron Orb to make it actually usable…
I realize that at this point, this idea needs a lot of work and development to effectively implement. There are many things I have only briefly considered which could completely throw off the balance of this item enforcement; for instance, switching Deoxys-A into a CSpecs Tricking Zam = gg. More common would be the problem of say Lugia switching into a T-Wave before Toxic Orb can activate. There are ways around these issues of course, but such situations will have to be considered and a protocol established to deal with them.
All in all, I’d like this to serve as a way to freshen up the OU metagame by adding some new, balanced Pokemon to it. Sunny Day teams could finally become a reality, and who’s to say Rain Dance teams won’t? This generation has finally given us an easy and effective way to regulate the use of Ubers in Standard play. I’m not asking you to embrace it, just to consider it.
Other possibilities include:
- Toxic Orb Lugia
- Flame Orb Groudon
- Iron Orb/Lagging Tail Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Darkrai
Before opening the topic up for discussion of the above nerfs or any others you might have thought of, I ask you to please consider what I have to say below on the advantages, limitations, and possibilities which such an arrangement could offer.
First of all, I envisage that the community would decide together which Ubers and with which hold items are allowed into OU (in the same way that the tiers were decided upon). A list would then be posted so that the nerfs become common knowledge to the community. This is to prevent people from coming up with their own nerfs and thereby unbalancing the new metagame (sort of like someone using Scizor in UU, thus unbalancing that metagame). It would also add a sense of formality to the whole thing.
You might be wondering why to stop at items? Why not make movepool limitations, or force Groudon to carry a –Atk nature with 0 Attack IVs for instance? Items are simply a lot easier to regulate, considering you’ll know by the end of the turn whether or not your opponent really gave Groudon a Flame Orb. All the other detrimental items’ presence will also be evident by the end of the turn. It’s a lot harder to regulate IVs EVs and natures for obvious reasons. Limitations on movepool take a way from the Pokemon’s diversity, and let’s face it: it’s a lot easier to remember the one item an Uber is supposed to carry rather than memorize the 4-5 moves each Uber isn’t allowed to use. It will also be a lot harder to reach a consensus on which moves to ban as opposed to which item to enforce, considering how many more moves there are to take into account. There’s also the obvious fact that giving a Flame Orb to Groudon will nerf it a lot more than giving it as low an Attack stat as possible. This is just one of many examples of how item nerfs are the most effective, and therefore the most likely way to make certain Ubers fair play in Standard. Ultimately, nerfing Ubers through items is easy to regulate, is (relatively) easy to reach a consensus on, and is the most effective method available yet.
I’d also like to make a point that by enforcing an item on certain Pokemon, you’re also limiting their versatility (which in turn nerfs them still further). Take Deoxys-A for example: not only will it be extremely slow, the opponent won’t have to wonder whether it has a CB, CS, or LO. In this sense, the item enforcement acts as a double-nerf.
I realize that this item enforcement won’t be enough to nerf some Ubers enough to make them viable enough for Standard play. As of yet I can’t think of any item to nerf Kyogre enough. I invite you all to think of ways to nerf the likes of Palkia, Kyogre, Dialga, and Arceus, but it may simply not be possible.
What I really don’t want to come out of this is an even more over-centralized OU metagame; it’s bad enough as it is. God forbid OU should turn into a “mini-Ubers” of sorts. One solution might be to only introduce 2-3 Ubers. However, I think the ideal solution would be to nerf the Ubers, wherever possible, to the extent that they become BL/ low OU level Pokemon. But good luck with making Groudon BL-worthy. Something like Deoxys-A with a Lagging Tail however I could easily see as BL, only able to come in on something like Umbreon (a bit of exaggeration here of course). Maybe we should only enforce Iron Orb to make it actually usable…
I realize that at this point, this idea needs a lot of work and development to effectively implement. There are many things I have only briefly considered which could completely throw off the balance of this item enforcement; for instance, switching Deoxys-A into a CSpecs Tricking Zam = gg. More common would be the problem of say Lugia switching into a T-Wave before Toxic Orb can activate. There are ways around these issues of course, but such situations will have to be considered and a protocol established to deal with them.
All in all, I’d like this to serve as a way to freshen up the OU metagame by adding some new, balanced Pokemon to it. Sunny Day teams could finally become a reality, and who’s to say Rain Dance teams won’t? This generation has finally given us an easy and effective way to regulate the use of Ubers in Standard play. I’m not asking you to embrace it, just to consider it.
