Pokémon Annihilape

[MrHands]

Skeledirge with unaware dumps all over Annihilape. Tera fairy to lose the ghost weakness while still resisting drain punch (stops Annihilape from healing).

Sort of. After 2 hits 0 attack Rage Fist (150 BP) 3HKOs and Skeledirge can get Taunted while even Fairy Tera Blast only 3-4HKOs back. I feel like it only works in perfect scenarios where Skele is already Tera'd and at full HP and Ape hasn't taken a U-turn or something. If Ape takes a hit once or twice prior to the battle it's just going to overwhelm Skele with 150+ BP fists. Ape can also Tera into water and just shred Skele.

I run Fairy Skeledirge and still get my cheeks clapped half the time. It's probably the best defensive check around I guess but it only works in the absolute best case scenarios.

 

[turd2]

If Ape takes a hit once or twice prior to the battle it's just going to overwhelm Skele with 150+ BP fists. Ape can also Tera into water and just shred Skele.

So don't hit it.

If you get Annihilape up to 150 BP on rage fist without doing significant damage to it, you're probably going to lose.

 

[Zennistrad]

It's unfortunate that this generation nerfed stall so heavily because it really does seem like stalling out this mon with Toxic is just the best way to deal with it currently.

 

[MrHands]

So don't hit it.

If you get Annihilape up to 150 BP on rage fist without doing significant damage to it, you're probably going to lose.

Skele only really works if you can Tera, Ape can't Tera, you do zero damage to it all game, Skele stays at around 100%, you get lucky with Taunt 50/50s or can severely chip Chest Rest with Spikes, and Ape never crits. It isn't impossible to out-play but the odds are clearly against you. You can't just say "don't hit it" lmao, you have to attack even if you're playing stall.

It's unfortunate that this generation nerfed stall so heavily because it really does seem like stalling out this mon with Toxic is just the best way to deal with it currently.

It gets Taunt and Chesto Rest. Toxic isn't very reliable. Blunder recently said "broken beats broken" so in a sense the best way to beat is to just smash it as hard as you can. Offensive play can overwhelm it, but defensive play is almost impossible.

 

[turd2]

Skele only really works if you can Tera, Ape can't Tera, you do zero damage to it all game, Skele stays at around 100%, you get lucky with Taunt 50/50s or can severely chip Chest Rest with Spikes, and Ape never crits. It isn't impossible to out-play but the odds are clearly against you. You can't just say "don't hit it" lmao, you have to attack even if you're playing stall.

Everything loses to Annihilape if you hit it. That's not specific to stall. Offensive teams can't u-turn against it, either.

Saying "well if you hit it 3x then an unaware mon is no longer a counter" isn't really saying anything. The whole point is that you can't hit him directly, unless it's with a super effective move.

 

[MrHands]

Everything loses to Annihilape if you hit it. That's not specific to stall. Offensive teams can't u-turn against it, either.

Saying "well if you hit it 3x then an unaware mon is no longer a counter" isn't really saying anything. The whole point is that you can't hit him directly, unless it's with a super effective move.

2 hits will result in a 3HKO, which lets Ape win 1v1. 1 hit will let Ape win if Skele switches in on a Taunt or Rage Fist. You don't need to hit it 3 times to lose. You also lose if Ape Tera Waters. You lose if you can't Tera Skele. You lose if Skele takes a small amount of chip. There are so many conditions where you lose.

Skele is definitely one of the better Ape counters for stall but that's a really low bar considering it's still going to lose half the time unless you play absolutely perfectly.

 

[turd2]

2 hits will result in a 3HKO, which lets Ape win 1v1. 1 hit will let Ape win if Skele switches in on a Taunt or Rage Fist. You don't need to hit it 3 times to lose. You also lose if Ape Tera Waters. You lose if you can't Tera Skele. You lose if Skele takes a small amount of chip. There are so many conditions where you lose.

And there are just as many conditions where you win...

It's stall. You have passive damage. You can make switches. If you could beat every mon one on one every single time, no one would ever play offense.

I'm sitting 1700 on the ladder with a stall team right now and have yet to lose to an Annihilape sweep. Chi-Yu, on the other hand...

 

[MrHands]

And there are just as many conditions where you win...

It's stall. You have passive damage. You can make switches. If you could beat every mon one on one every single time, no one would ever play offense.

I'm sitting 1700 on the ladder with a stall team right now and have yet to lose to an Annihilape sweep. Chi-Yu, on the other hand...

You're welcome to post some logs and / or a team. I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[escarlata]

So like... defensively, what beats this? Between Taunt, Terra Water, and Rage Fist boosts I've found this thing to be all but impossible to wall. I've even tried weird things like phys def Braviary or Farigiraf but they don't even work. Offensively checking this shit is hard enough but imo it's utterly impossible to wall.

ChestoRest variants without Taunt are easier to deal with using Taunt of your own, especially with hazard support. Tera Fairy Tinglu and Taunt Corviknight are some of the things that I've have some success with on BO, but can probably work on Stall as well.

Taunt variants are much harder to deal with on stall and definitely warrants more creative solutions. TrickScarf Rotom-W/H probably stands out as the most orthodox, but something more unorthodox like Sub/Disable/Shadow Ball Gengar with either TSpikes or Wisp in the last slot can be a viable fast support* who is also decent into Gholdengo with Tera Normal.
(*Examples of fast supports occasionally used in past gens stall teams inculde MAerodactyl, Talonflame, Starmie, Victini and Gengar himself)

Ngl Annihilape is still very hard to deal with on stall, but this is how I'm coping with it for now on my slower teams until the suspect test happens. (The most straightforward way honestly is to just slap CB Meowscarada on every team, even stall, which is really stupid)

 

[MagnetmanGaming]

This guy is good

 

[Sonikgav]

From my limited experience with Annihilape online I dont think ive seen one that wasn't Max Speed/HP and immediately using Final Gambit from lead.

 

[turd2]

You're welcome to post some logs and / or a team. I would love to be proven wrong.

Put a tera ghost Garganacl on your team... don't fire off random u-turns and other contact moves when you see Annihilape in team preview... and you will never lose to tera water Annihilape again.

 

[incorolla]

Final Gambit definitely deserves to be mentioned, as it will OHKO almost every non ghost pokemon with that big base 110 HP

Interestingly, I think the Ape is the highest base Hp Pokémon that gets final gambit. It's a shame it only wants to abuse it's broken rage fist though
I wonder if there's room on a team for Annihalape to act as a max HP final gambit Mon, while Primeape can be used as a weaker but bulkier alternative for Rage Fist/Bulk Up shenanigans?

 

[Unowninator]

Interestingly, I think the Ape is the highest base Hp Pokémon that gets final gambit. It's a shame it only wants to abuse it's broken rage fist though
I wonder if there's room on a team for Annihalape to act as a max HP final gambit Mon, while Primeape can be used as a weaker but bulkier alternative for Rage Fist/Bulk Up shenanigans?

I think Primeape's HP is too low for that, even with Eviolite.

 

[STEELDRAGON]

Interestingly, I think the Ape is the highest base Hp Pokémon that gets final gambit. It's a shame it only wants to abuse it's broken rage fist though
I wonder if there's room on a team for Annihalape to act as a max HP final gambit Mon, while Primeape can be used as a weaker but bulkier alternative for Rage Fist/Bulk Up shenanigans?

Yeah Annilape has much higher base HP (110 vs 65). Final Gambit is best run on a Choice scarf set so it OHKO and outspeed almost everything. You could try it out but it's not the best strategy

 

[Magcargo]

I think Defensive mons do badly vs Ape innately, though they have ways around it on certain sets. Toxic Stalling and forcing Ape to use Rest is one way to put it on the back foot, esp since Rage Fist isn't being powered up if they don't attack. Ape has to do a lot of setup to get Rage Fist to usable levels of power if it isn't being hit and if it uses it prematurely, it'll be chipped by Rocky Helmet + Toxic. Even if its powered up, it still might not OHKO Amongus or Corv, meaning it'll need to take another round of Rocky Helmet damage before it can KO them. Chesto Rest sets are also really susceptible to chip damage some from Spikes and SR, so despite Ape having great bulk, it still might be put into revenge killing range against some of the stronger attackers like Roaring Moon. If you chip it down enough, Ape will only be able to secure a 1-1 trade in the worst case scenario, which isn't ideal, but still a great trade considering how easy it is for it to Snowball.

I think part of the problem that makes Ape so annoying is that Pokemon like Corviknight run the U-turn / Roost / Defog / Body Press set which is basically just begging for Annihilape to come in and get free Rage Fist Boost / Setup. Running Brave Bird would the Ape match-up a bit less annoying, though that of course has its own downsides.

Having said all that, I still think Ape is pretty busted and has ways to get around a lot of these issues, particularly w/ support from something like Grimsnarl. I also think it have some unexplored potentional sets given Rage Fist's very easy power-up condition. A sub set seems very brutal for slower attackers to deal w/ for example.

 

[zantaRay]

Having said all that, I still think Ape is pretty busted and has ways to get around a lot of these issues, particularly w/ support from something like Grimsnarl. I also think it have some unexplored potentional sets given Rage Fist's very easy power-up condition. A sub set seems very brutal for slower attackers to deal w/ for example.

Unfortunately (or probably actually fortunately) hits to sub don't boost rage fist power. If they did annihilape would probably be running a sub set already.

 

[Roy]

This is the perfect combination of insanely effective/unexpected/cheese-y:

Annihilape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch
- U-turn
- Rest

Pair it with Pawmot or the other Revival Blessing user. The idea is to take as much damage as possible/surprise some shit early game, die, and revive with Leppa Pawmot once/twice. At that point your Rage First will be at least 200 bp. Should be fairly easy to sweep late game with a timely Tera to pure steel. You could put something else over Rest, though it's been pretty clutch to soak in another 2-3 hits in certain situations.

Also, I've fucked up a shitload of Goldengos early game by switching into a Make It Rain and then hitting it with a 100 BP Rage Fist, DPing Iron Valiants, revenge killing +1 Tera Normal'd Dragonites, and tons of other stuff. Also outspeeds probably 90% of the metagame.

Check it out!

 

[turd2]

Unfortunately (or probably actually fortunately) hits to sub don't boost rage fist power. If they did annihilape would probably be running a sub set already.

I have run sub a few times. It's better than taunt in most situations.

The main downside is Ting-Lu can just sets up hazards and whirlwind you away.

 

[Dreadfury]

In the last week or so this thing has very quickly become my least-favorite mon to go up against in the tier, and it's not super close either.

I don't think there's ever been a better mon than Annihilape at punishing stray attacks. It takes the niches mons like Zapdos, Moltres, Fat Volcarona, Helmet Chomp, etc. were excellent at over the years (heavily punishing contact moves like U-Turn) and amps that niche up to eleven by punishing not just contact moves and not just physical attacks but every single attacking move in the entire game, although Ape's goal is to stick around longer rather than immediately crippling something with high chip damage or a status effect.

It has comparable to or even better bulk than Swampert - a mon known for being a very well-statted mon defensively. And its typing is by no means exploitable either, defensively or offensively, when it has Tera-Water or Tera-Fairy in the back. But I think what really solidifies this mon as infuriating to fight is the fact that Annihilape is neither slow nor passive. Base 90 isn't fast, by any means, but for a mon that has Swampert levels of bulk and has access to Taunt and a setup move I think base 90 is just way too good at letting it get away with its bullshit.

 

[zantaRay]

In the last week or so this thing has very quickly become my least-favorite mon to go up against in the tier, and it's not super close either.

I don't think there's ever been a better mon than Annihilape at punishing stray attacks. It takes the niches mons like Zapdos, Moltres, Fat Volcarona, Helmet Chomp, etc. were excellent at over the years (heavily punishing contact moves like U-Turn) and amps that niche up to eleven by punishing not just contact moves and not just physical attacks but every single attacking move in the entire game, although Ape's goal is to stick around longer rather than immediately crippling something with high chip damage or a status effect.

It has comparable to or even better bulk than Swampert - a mon known for being a very well-statted mon defensively. And its typing is by no means exploitable either, defensively or offensively, when it has Tera-Water or Tera-Fairy in the back. But I think what really solidifies this mon as infuriating to fight is the fact that Annihilape is neither slow nor passive. Base 90 isn't fast, by any means, but for a mon that has Swampert levels of bulk and has access to Taunt and a setup move I think base 90 is just way too good at letting it get away with its bullshit.

Swampert has fantastic defensive typing and doesn't have that great bulk without investment. Annihilape is the same statwise, and it's typing is much worse. It can be fast or really bulky but not both. It's drain punch is also not immediately threatening if it tries to go somewhat fast with some bulk. While it's quite a strong mon, it mostly dismantles passive teams, and I don't think it's too overbearing in the teambuilder. I could definitely be wrong about that but personally I haven't had that many issues.

 

[turd2]

Swampert has fantastic defensive typing and doesn't have that great bulk without investment. Annihilape is the same statwise, and it's typing is much worse. It can be fast or really bulky but not both. It's drain punch is also not immediately threatening if it tries to go somewhat fast with some bulk. While it's quite a strong mon, it mostly dismantles passive teams, and I don't think it's too overbearing in the teambuilder. I could definitely be wrong about that but personally I haven't had that many issues.

Annihilape doesn't even beat passive teams... I have a stall team that handles Annihilape just fine. Tera ghost Garganacl forces chip damage without beefing up rage fist too much. From there, just force it to waste turns on taunt and don't let it heal with drain punch.

 

[New World Order]

In the last week or so this thing has very quickly become my least-favorite mon to go up against in the tier, and it's not super close either.

I don't think there's ever been a better mon than Annihilape at punishing stray attacks. It takes the niches mons like Zapdos, Moltres, Fat Volcarona, Helmet Chomp, etc. were excellent at over the years (heavily punishing contact moves like U-Turn) and amps that niche up to eleven by punishing not just contact moves and not just physical attacks but every single attacking move in the entire game, although Ape's goal is to stick around longer rather than immediately crippling something with high chip damage or a status effect.

It has comparable to or even better bulk than Swampert - a mon known for being a very well-statted mon defensively. And its typing is by no means exploitable either, defensively or offensively, when it has Tera-Water or Tera-Fairy in the back. But I think what really solidifies this mon as infuriating to fight is the fact that Annihilape is neither slow nor passive. Base 90 isn't fast, by any means, but for a mon that has Swampert levels of bulk and has access to Taunt and a setup move I think base 90 is just way too good at letting it get away with its bullshit.

I agree with most of this but I would point out that a lot of Swampert's bulk is related to it's typing, and is largely what made it such a splashable mon in ADV/DPP. Annihilape has 3 resists, 2 immunities, and 4 weaknesses, with the only premium resists being Fighting and Rock. Swampert meanwhile is packing 4 resists, 1 immunity, and only 1 weakness, and while technically it has "less" resists, it has more premium resistances like Rock/Electric/Fire, heck even Steel to an extent. The one thing Annihilape does have that Swampert doesn't is offensive heal in Drain Punch. If you manage to pick off the opposing heavy hitters, Annihilape can stay in for days and heal off stray damage while boosting up its big fat punch.

 

[pika pal]

I agree with most of this but I would point out that a lot of Swampert's bulk is related to it's typing, and is largely what made it such a splashable mon in ADV/DPP. Annihilape has 3 resists, 2 immunities, and 4 weaknesses, with the only premium resists being Fighting and Rock. Swampert meanwhile is packing 4 resists, 1 immunity, and only 1 weakness, and while technically it has "less" resists, it has more premium resistances like Rock/Electric/Fire, heck even Steel to an extent. The one thing Annihilape does have that Swampert doesn't is offensive heal in Drain Punch. If you manage to pick off the opposing heavy hitters, Annihilape can stay in for days and heal off stray damage while boosting up its big fat punch.

As someone without immense ADV/DPP, my understanding was that Swampert was a blanket check meant to outlast and tank out certain threats depending on the team, not totally unlike, say, SpD Landorud-T in SS. My main note being its defense was its primary contribution to many team structures and hence its bulk/typing had to carry it a lot harder.

Annihilape having comparable bulk (relative or literal) is a lot more exploitable on it since it’s to facilitate wall or team breaking. With Swampert damage inflicted is progress against it, as long as it wasn’t an amount Leftovers could heal, while with Ape, taking Chip damage can be progress for him against the opponent as much as the opposite. Similar bulk to a tank goes very far on a Wallbreaking Win Condition than on said tank for a lot of comps

 

[New World Order]

As someone without immense ADV/DPP, my understanding was that Swampert was a blanket check meant to outlast and tank out certain threats depending on the team, not totally unlike, say, SpD Landorud-T in SS. My main note being its defense was its primary contribution to many team structures and hence its bulk/typing had to carry it a lot harder.

Annihilape having comparable bulk (relative or literal) is a lot more exploitable on it since it’s to facilitate wall or team breaking. With Swampert damage inflicted is progress against it, as long as it wasn’t an amount Leftovers could heal, while with Ape, taking Chip damage can be progress for him against the opponent as much as the opposite. Similar bulk to a tank goes very far on a Wallbreaking Win Condition than on said tank for a lot of comps

Most of your read on Swampert is correct. Swampert does have methods to expand its lifespan, such as Protect and Rest, at the cost of Swampert losing momentum, whereas Annihilape, as long as matchup permits, can sustain while dishing out damage via Bulk Up boosted Drain Punches etc. My point was moreso that bulk can't just be looked at from a raw stat slashline perspective, otherwise Cresselia would see more play. Typing/abilities/movepool often have a bigger effect on a Pokemon's "effective bulk" and the typing is why Swampert is so highly regarded defensively, but it would be phased out in future gens by the likes of Gastrodon/Quagsire despite its better defensive statline due to Gastro/Quaggy having superior abilities and access to Recover. Annihilape doesn't really have a particularly outstanding defensive typing nor ability. However, it's main draw is obviously Rage Fist and its absurd coverage/damage output, so any bulk on top of that should be considered a bonus.