All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

I want to ask a question regarding Self-ko clause in old gens or lack thereof. Basically on cartridge for gen 1-4, if a last mon standoff explosion results in both sides fainting, the game ends as a tie. Now for tournaments we usually implement this, but on ladder ties in this situation don't exist so one side has to win the game. From gen 5 onwards ties no longer exist anyway, so whoever exploded loses.

So far so good, but after testing this it turns out that in Generation 1 and 2, the one who went for Explosion ends up winning the game. However in Generation 3 and 4, the one who explodes ends up losing the game. Does anyone know what is actually going on here? Replays below to illustrate.

RBY
GSC
ADV
DPP
 
HI guys I don't know exactly if I have to ask or if it is written somewhere, but I'd like to try to get in tournaments, in particular I'd like to join DP OU tournaments after spending the last couple of months playing it in the ladder. I saw that a winter seasonal started recently and that the Grand Championship is starting next month. I think is too much late for the winter seasonal but I'd like to get into the grand championship and the Latias tournaments I saw in the live tournaments section.
So the question is how can I know exactly the day the sign-in for the tournament starts? There's a way for receiving notifations when a new tournaments starts?
Thanks in advance.
 

Lutra

Spreadsheeter by day, Random Ladderer by night.
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RoA Co-Leader
HI guys I don't know exactly if I have to ask or if it is written somewhere, but I'd like to try to get in tournaments, in particular I'd like to join DP OU tournaments after spending the last couple of months playing it in the ladder. I saw that a winter seasonal started recently and that the Grand Championship is starting next month. I think is too much late for the winter seasonal but I'd like to get into the grand championship and the Latias tournaments I saw in the live tournaments section.
So the question is how can I know exactly the day the sign-in for the tournament starts? There's a way for receiving notifations when a new tournaments starts?
Thanks in advance.
You can ask for the `DPPer` role on RoA Discord to get notified of most DPP tournaments that have a thread on Smogon forums. The Schedule for the Global Championships is not yet released (there'll be a thread in Ruins of Alph when it is). DPP OU GC will probably be a week after ADV OU GC in February, so ~ February 9th start.
 
You can ask for the `DPPer` role on RoA Discord to get notified of most DPP tournaments that have a thread on Smogon forums. The Schedule for the Global Championships is not yet released (there'll be a thread in Ruins of Alph when it is). DPP OU GC will probably be a week after ADV OU GC in February, so ~ February 9th start.
Thanks, is what I was looking for
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
ah, so they were banned mostly because of an archaic tiering decision. do you people think these bans were still worth it looking back? can i ask that?
This question is a bit subjective, and unfortunately I don’t think we’d be able to get a solid grasp of what should/could be unbanned in certain tiers / what shouldn’t just because almost nobody plays them anymore. Personally, I think a lot of stuff probably got unjustly banned/unbanned since tiering philosophy was basically nonexistent and was centralized around arbitrary decisions made by the community at the time, but it would be difficult to test any of that out without some type of tournament / more plays in the metagame.
So back then the tiers were really decided based on what people posted in those threads? I could just post "I think Girafarig should be OU." and it really would move to OU? How could the tiers "represent usage" if they had no usage stats? How could the BL tier "balance out" UU and NU if nobody could agree on what "balance" meant?
Modern Pokémon is an anomaly among competitive communities with its strictly usage-based tiering. Oldschool mon tiered like most competitive games do, on viability. Viability is, of course, subjective based off perceived success, especially by top players.
 
I want to ask a question regarding Self-ko clause in old gens or lack thereof. Basically on cartridge for gen 1-4, if a last mon standoff explosion results in both sides fainting, the game ends as a tie. Now for tournaments we usually implement this, but on ladder ties in this situation don't exist so one side has to win the game. From gen 5 onwards ties no longer exist anyway, so whoever exploded loses.

So far so good, but after testing this it turns out that in Generation 1 and 2, the one who went for Explosion ends up winning the game. However in Generation 3 and 4, the one who explodes ends up losing the game. Does anyone know what is actually going on here? Replays below to illustrate.

RBY
GSC
ADV
DPP
I've never understood this either. So would definitely appreciate a definitive answer for this.
 
Is it true that when Smogon first started tiering Pokemon, we didn't usage statistics? If we haven't always used usage statistics, how did we do it back then? When did we start using usage?
 
Smogon lists OHKO moves in Gen 1 and Gen 2 as dealing 65535 damage rather than the sum of the Pokemon's max HP like in later gens. However, I can't find the data that corroborates this for the life of me. Does anyone know the source of the information? It is from a research thread or something? (Also, is it affected by stat boosts, like Swords Dance/Amnesia, or is it always the same damage?)
 

Merritt

literally the textbook definition of a tsundere
is a Community Contributor
Smogon lists OHKO moves in Gen 1 and Gen 2 as dealing 65535 damage rather than the sum of the Pokemon's max HP like in later gens. However, I can't find the data that corroborates this for the life of me. Does anyone know the source of the information? It is from a research thread or something? (Also, is it affected by stat boosts, like Swords Dance/Amnesia, or is it always the same damage?)
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/past-gens-research-thread.3506992/page-6#post-6742083

Short answer: because the maximum possible damage is 65535.
 
Anyone got any good Excadrill sample sets for BW?
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

This is the best set in my opinion rn, Sand force can work to as Ability, and in some teams Toxic is a good choice
 
(Not sure where it's appropriate to ask this question; please direct me elsewhere if this isn't the right place)

Is there a list of all the "official", non-OM formats that Smogon and/or Pokémon Showdown have ever supported, and in which generations? Beyond the standard set of Uber/OU/UU/etc, I see in the main list of forums that LC and Doubles OU are official, I guess. But since which gen? Which gen did PU start in? NU? And other such questions.

I'm asking because I'd like to go through all the Pokémon Showdown usage data since November 2014 and put all the data from all the "official" formats in my usage data viewer.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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Drk Pwnr
Off the top of my head... but I very well might be wrong.

LC since DPP
NU since DPP, but not really... it was not really official during gen 4 but (I think) it had usage stats and a lot of play. It’d be weird to say not official until BW though... NU existed as long ago as GSC, but still I’d say DPP. In modern times GSC and ADV NU have been radically retiered.
RU since BW (though you could argue BW RU is effectively same as old NU, and BW NU was a new lower tier, but that’s not how Smogon makes things!)
Doubles since ORAS
PU since ORAS
 
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Oglemi

fever dream
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Smogon Historian
^
- Also VGC since DPP ("unofficially", it became an "officially" supported format in BW, and was also semi-supported all the way back for JAA in ADV but no stats exist for that afaik).
- NU in DPP would have been logged on the CAP server iirc along with LC, it wasn't supported as a ladder on shoddy main afaik; it also only had a single thread in the UU forum, but a whole community existed on ProjectNU.
- Stats should exist for Smogon Doubles, GBU, and some other metas in BW
- There should also be stats for Monotype, STABmons, AAA, BH, 1v1, and other such metagames for ORAS, although only Monotype is now considered official.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-smogon-university-simulator-statistics-—-september-2013.3489026/ This thread and others like it exist for BW as posted by Antar and prior Rising_Dusk I believe. DJD's threads for DPP should be in the Pokemetrics forum and in the CAP forum
 
Q1: Gen V and onward, according to Bulbapedia.

From the King's Rock page:
Generation V onward
Instead of working off its separate list, King's Rock now works on any attacking move that does not already have a chance to flinch. The flinch chance is affected by Serene Grace and the rainbow created by Fire Pledge and Water Pledge.
From the Serene Grace Page:
Generations III-IV
...The 10% flinch chance due to King's Rock and Razor Fang is unaffected by Serene Grace.

Generation V onward
Serene Grace boosts the 10% flinch chance due to King's Rock or Razor Fang to 20%.


Q2: It is true. It was done by viability and gut feeling mostly. BLs were much larger, as UUs didn't have huge playerbases. Once moving to Shoddy battle when usage stats could be collected, tiering shifted to actually reflect the name OverUsed. This was in Gen 4, around April 2008, and has continued since. Low tiers of old generations (RBY UU, GSC UU/NU/PU, ADV UU/NU/PU) are still tiered through viability in the above tier.
 
Is there somewhere where I can read about playing OMs in old generations?

Edit: Is there somewhere where I can read about playing RSE BL (OU Pokemon are banned but BL Pokemon are allowed)?
 
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can someone explain to me how the fuck Present and its damage calcs worked in gen 2? i see people running it on blissey and i never know how much damage it's supposed to be doing or not doing. i know it's type dependent but is there any way to calculate it/
 
The mechanics were indeed fixed in Pokemon Crystal but as far as I know link battles have GS mechanics so that the GS games are compatible with Crystal. Just reading the Bulbapedia article though it seems as if a link battle between two Crystal carts would have regular Crystal mechanics. I don't know whether or not that is the case.
 
In RSE OU, how do I not get trapped by Magneton and Tyranitar? I can't be sure my opponents don't have a trapper until I reveal all 6 of their Pokemon, and I don't want to wait until then to use my trap-able Pokemon.
 

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