Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - VGC edition

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Just one question: Why the hell would you ever sacrifice one (or even two!) moveslots just for stopping Smeargle?!?! It isn't SUCH a threat :o
Lum/Chesto Berry, priority moves and maybe Hail / Sandstream to knock out sash. But you don't need to base your whole team around stopping DV Smeargle '_'
Second thing is: How could you ever destroy things like Dialga or something like this.
Maybe your leads are countering every set-up move, but it won't help you much...
As I mentioned, there are a lot more ways to counter things like Dark Void, Trick Room etc.
 
13Random37 said:
Just one question: Why the hell would you ever sacrifice one (or even two!) moveslots just for stopping Smeargle?!?! It isn't SUCH a threat :o
Lum/Chesto Berry, priority moves and maybe Hail / Sandstream to knock out sash. But you don't need to base your whole team around stopping DV Smeargle '_'
Second thing is: How could you ever destroy things like Dialga or something like this.
Maybe your leads are countering every set-up move, but it won't help you much...
As I mentioned, there are a lot more ways to counter things like Dark Void, Trick Room etc.
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I only mentioned two Pokemon. There are still four other slots for fitting in other, perfectly reliable Pokemon--perhaps even my own Dialga or some of the other restricted list. To say that I would make a whole team just to counter Smeargle is far too straightforward. I think anybody playing this game would have the common sense to not create a whole team of Pokemon whose only purpose is to counter other people's Pokemon.

Additionally, this would be the first competitive tournament I've ever attended. As I look through the various threads that talk about VGC in various regions, I am hearing far too much about Smeargle and Trick Room to be able to ignore the possibilities.

I'll figure something out. I just want to be able to have fun without getting scrubbed out by sleep moves and sweepers.
 
I seriously got your point, but since you have only 4 Pokemon in the match, you have just 2 'real' attackers. Ok, those could be Kyogre/palkia/giratina/Dialga we... and you can counter DV and TR with your leads. But you waste the slots imo :p that's my point. A Lum Berry or a quiet Aboma, a brave Tyranitar or something like this is also really good against tr, since ubers have 90 speed base or even higher, so you are able to underspeed them and so overspeed in trick room. (keep in mind, that some ubers may hold iron ball)
 
I'll concede to the "Two Real Attackers" point. I would have to make them pretty good choices.

And you know, it occurred to me in the past hour that if I'm so concerned about sleep, there's always Hypno and Honchkrow; both with Insomnia. Hypno has access to Hypnosis (obviously) and can take a few hits and he's somewhat slow, so Trick Room is a toss up rather than something guaranteed to screw him over. And Honchkrow is a reliable attacker with Sucker Punch and a decent Move Pool otherwise. That way I can focus more on the fight than pulling all of my weight to defense before offense.
 
Brigg_of_Eden said:
I don't DO calculations when making EV spreads because I don't give a rat's patoot whether or not I can OHKO/2HKO things. I make EV spreads based on what role I want the Pokemon to have in the team. If I want the Alakazam for support, I want to try and increase its survivability. With 85 Base SpDef, Alakazam could probably take a special hit.
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It's not even about Alakazam or Crobat OHKO/2HKOing anything. Like you said, you want to make EV spreads based on the role. If you want to increase their survivability as part of their role, you should do damage calculations to see if they will be able to survive those hits. "Probably" probably isn't good enough.

Right now a few quick calculations tell me that neither of those will survive kyogre spout or any Uber Dragon's Draco Meteor (assuming they used +SpA nature with 252 SpA EVs) except for Giratina (Alterered). Also, 100 HP EVs on Alakazam is interestingly just enough such that Groudon will always be able to OHKO with Earthquake.

Like others mentioned, using up two pokemon just so you aren't flinched or sleeping is a bit too much. Also, using a ghost for no flinching is something you should consider.
 
What do you guys think of an Ambipom lead with fakeout and fling while holding razor fang for the effect of 2 fake outs. this prevents most set ups and makes them easy to KO. Im also debating whether to do this with ambipom or weaville. Ambipom has technician weaville has fling STAB and is faster.
 
Chinese Dood said:
It's not even about Alakazam or Crobat OHKO/2HKOing anything. Like you said, you want to make EV spreads based on the role. If you want to increase their survivability as part of their role, you should do damage calculations to see if they will be able to survive those hits. "Probably" probably isn't good enough.

Right now a few quick calculations tell me that neither of those will survive kyogre spout or any Uber Dragon's Draco Meteor (assuming they used +SpA nature with 252 SpA EVs) except for Giratina (Alterered). Also, 100 HP EVs on Alakazam is interestingly just enough such that Groudon will always be able to OHKO with Earthquake.

Like others mentioned, using up two pokemon just so you aren't flinched or sleeping is a bit too much. Also, using a ghost for no flinching is something you should consider.
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Thank you.

Even though it may not look like it based on what I post, I have been taking careful consideration into everything people have been telling me. You're all competitive players and I'm more casual. I need this kind of advice from people who know more about the format. So trust me, I'm not ignoring your advisories.

I've scrapped the idea of using Alakazam. It sounded like a good idea at the time and it looked good on paper to me. But this is why I don't train anything new unless I can know for a fact it will serve its purpose before getting KOed. The practical, knowledgeable advice from the people here at Smogon has been of great help in responding to my choices.
 
So hope someone can tell me if I could use this Jolly Groudon

hp 28-29
atk 28-29
def 20-21
Speed 26-27
SAtk 26-27
Sdef 24-25

these are IV s
 
Brigg_of_Eden said:
I don't DO calculations when making EV spreads because I don't give a rat's patoot whether or not I can OHKO/2HKO things. I make EV spreads based on what role I want the Pokemon to have in the team. If I want the Alakazam for support, I want to try and increase its survivability. With 85 Base SpDef, Alakazam could probably take a special hit.
Click to expand...
What I mean is if the extra EVs do not help Alakazam take a hit better, then they could be better used elsewhere. I haven't done the calculations, but there does seem to be a defensively minded lead Alakazam built in the analysis.
 
Firestorm said:
What I mean is if the extra EVs do not help Alakazam take a hit better, then they could be better used elsewhere. I haven't done the calculations, but there does seem to be a defensively minded lead Alakazam built in the analysis.
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All the more reason to have scrapped the idea! ^_^
can't blame a guy for trying though, right?
Thanks for the input, all! I might post in here later if I manage to come up with anything else that may need experts to look over.

Or I could leave it a surprise...tested out in private playtesting...

<_<...>_>
 
I was wondering, is a cloned pokemon from a giveaway or a trade thread legal to use in VGC. I know they check for tampering but I didnt know if cloning triggered it.
 
Ok thats good. I was worried about that because there is no way i can get a decent legend because I cant rng until I can catch a shiny in my game lol
 
Yeah, you could still RNG for a flawless IVed and good natured legend even without knowing your SID; the SID is only to make shinies.
 
Can Blizzard under Hail and Thunder under Rain go through Protect and Detect in HeartGold/SoulSilver? Or is that only in Diamond/Pearl?
 
Firestorm said:
Can Blizzard under Hail and Thunder under Rain go through Protect and Detect in HeartGold/SoulSilver? Or is that only in Diamond/Pearl?
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That's only Diamond\Pearl.

The Smogon Itemdex also says that the Micle Berry, when activated, allows attacks to hit through Protect, but I'm betting that's a DP thing as well.
 
Alright, that's what I suspected but the SmogonDex only mentioned Platinum and Battle Revolution so I wasn't sure if it just hadn't been updated yet or if it did actually work in HG/SS. That's good to know.
 
Juge said:
So hope someone can tell me if I could use this Jolly Groudon

hp 28-29
atk 28-29
def 20-21
Speed 26-27
SAtk 26-27
Sdef 24-25

these are IV s
Click to expand...

If they are legitmate IV's of a Groudon caught ingame then they are perfectly fine to use. They allow you to use Hex flawless shinies, as long as they are legitimate. It is a computer program that checks for legitimacy, and it will not look for 'extreme values', but rather 'erroneous values'
 
Alexa888 said:
If they are legitmate IV's of a Groudon caught ingame then they are perfectly fine to use. They allow you to use Hex flawless shinies, as long as they are legitimate. It is a computer program that checks for legitimacy, and it will not look for 'extreme values', but rather 'erroneous values'
Click to expand...

Slight correction/addition to that.

Legendaries/Ubers can only be hex flawless with certain natures - I know it applies to Modest, Timid, and Calm, but I haven't checked the other natures in Shoddy.
 
Oh yes, it is all to do with PID/IV creation. Also, I think Adamant can be Hex flawless. The point is, they check for invalid pokemon and the use of AR, and Legit Pokemon with high IVs will pass every time
 
What do you think of the following stratedy, I call it double dual fake out.

Lead with Ambipom and Weaville. Both of them do fake out. Then both of them use fling, one holding a razor claw the other holding a kings rock. This has the effect of another fake out and i get two rounds of opponents flinching, disregarding faster pokemon (for fling) or inner focus ability. After that the opponents are usually in ko range with one hit which I would use u turn with Ambipom for use of fake out again. This strategy would stop set ups and severely damage or ko a lead. What do you guys think?
 
A friend of mine JUST mentioned that a day ago.

I find it ridiculous, personally. But you should test it out and see how it works. The idea seems viable.
 
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