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Asperger's Syndrome

jumpluff said:
The thing about Asperger's is that it refers to a broad spectrum of characteristics, so it feels more like a catch-all than anything. When you say 'I have Asperger's syndrome', I can predict that you are likely to experience a range of 'symptoms' commonly associated with the syndrome, but it's really just a shot in the dark.
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Yeah, this.

My brother (five years younger than me) had (has) Asperger's Syndrome. His teenage years were not pleasant -- for anyone involved. What characterized his life and personality was intense introversion (itself not unusual) which very often led to extreme mood swings and violent behavior. From what I've been told, this is a usual result of the disorder.

On the other hand, a very good friend of mine also has Asperger's Syndrome, but he could not be more unlike my brother. His symptoms manifest completely differently.

I don't think the syndrome is particularly over-diagnosed, and anyone who claims that needs to show some evidence or should not be taken seriously. It is clear, though, that people manifest different symptoms.

You know, I don't even like saying "symptoms" because that implies that there's something wrong. While there's obviously something wrong with my brother's, I don't see anything wrong with my friend's or people like Ancien Regime.
 
I'll agree that there isn't a proper way to diagnose Autism. We don't have symptoms, so they characterize us in a broad variety of ways. But there is a concrete definition that produces all those characteristics, and I've already stated that. Our neural pathways aren't routed the same. Honestly, even I think there are a few too many diagnosed Autistics in this thread, but then again this is a massive forum devoted to a game invented by an Autistic.

But the truth is, I highly doubt anyone old enough to really comprehend the subject was misdiagnosed because Asperger's has only just recently started to gain merit among psychologists. Anyone here in their 20s (or late teens) would have been diagnosed in the days when most psychologists were diagnosing Autistics with ADHD.
 
My parents threw medicine at me after I was diagnosed in the 90's. All it did was keep me from living a normal childhood. I could have benefited from more psychology.
 
Not to sound really dumb or anything, but what exactly is Asperger's Syndrome? Is it a social anxiety syndrome? (In case you couldn't tell by that post I don't know anyone with Asperger's). I do know a few people who have Autism and one kid with minor Tourrette's.

EDIT: I did look it up, btw, but I didn't really understand what it is.
 
Surgo said:
You know, I don't even like saying "symptoms" because that implies that there's something wrong. While there's obviously something wrong with my brother's, I don't see anything wrong with my friend's or people like Ancien Regime.
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Yeah, that's why I used quote marks. I don't really have a better word other than characteristics. I completely agree with Brain. I do not consider there to be anything 'wrong' with me as far as my personality goes as a result of the syndrome. Obviously I recognise flaws in myself, but I don't consider them symptoms. I do suffer a lot from my messed up sensory processing, though, as well as my anxiety disorders, which have high comorbidity with Asperger's (though Asperger's children may not be diagnosed with them anyway since Asperger's 'explains' them.)

For the record, until I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, I was examined by a million different specialists from their own fields. Their verdict was usually 'I don't know', or I'd get diagnosed for a specific 'symptom'. So I ended up diagnosed with a lot of disorders, lol.
 
Hmm.... It seems that our forum has a larger number of people with Asperger's than average. It's very likely that a Pokemon forum selects for individuals that may have slight Asperger's. Thoughts?
 
Yeah, I apologise for the use of the word 'symptoms', I meant it in a very nebulous and non-technical way; it was not intended to sound casually disparaging.

@Alan: Asperger's is a subtype of autism spectrum disorder. I don't know how it subdivides, though, because there are various typical manifestations (as evidenced by this thread), and so there are apparently non-Aspergers autists who manifest less symptoms or less pronouncedly than some Aspergers ones, and yet Aspergers is generally considered to be a milder form of ASD.
 
vonFiedler said:
But the truth is, I highly doubt anyone old enough to really comprehend the subject was misdiagnosed because Asperger's has only just recently started to gain merit among psychologists. Anyone here in their 20s (or late teens) would have been diagnosed in the days when most psychologists were diagnosing Autistics with ADHD.
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Asperger's has been prevalent a bit longer than that, about 25 years or so. People claimed I had Asperger's for a little while when I have pretty much none of the "symptoms" and live a completely normal life without anything other than the regular social hiccups.
 
asperger's is categorized as a pervasive developmental disorder.. which i guess is just an extremely fancy way to say "this person doesn't act as though other people might in normal situations" . i took psychology in high school just because i wanted to learn about the subject in general. i already knew about myself, but you know. anyway ill just post some of my notes.

pdd: characteristics: mutism, sensory 'spin outs', sensory blocking, tantrums, unresponsiveness to others, echolalia..

autism: characterized by deficiencies in communication, social and behavioral categories.. cant infer other's thoughts or feelings (empathy, i guess)
social: lack of nonverbal behaviors, lack of developmentally appropriate relationships
comm: inability to initiate or sustain conversation, repetitive language
behavior: intense excessive interests, rigid following of nonfunctional routines, preoccupation with parts of objects

aspergers.. social impairments, stereotypical patterns of behavior, no language or cognitive delays
"autism examples" : difficulty mixing with other children, innapropriate laughing or giggling, little to no eye contact, apparent insensitivty o pain, prefers to be alone, aloof manner, 'spns objects' (i would ignore this one or generalize it further), innapropriate attachment to objects, noticeable physical overactivty or inactivity, unresponseive to normal teaching methods, resists changes in routine, no real fear of dangers, sustained odd play, echolalia, may not want cuddling, not responsive to verbal cues, acts deaf, difficulty in expressing needs, tantrums, uneven gross/fine motor skills

sorry for the wall of text but i hope this helps the discussion, and informs anyone who comes in here. remember that the second large wall is for autism, not just aspergers.
 
Well, since people are outing themselves... How's that for "social cues"? Also yay first Cong post.

Personally, I find that I'm very, very different on the internet from when I'm off the internet. I don't just mean "lol i can get away with hurting people's feelings" but I mean that I'm much, much more comfortable with talking to people on a forum than IRL. I don't know what it is; maybe I'm so sick and tired of people not understanding me and being entirely unhelpful that I just don't try anymore, whereas in a forum all I have to do is claim that I share the common interest of the forum. I've managed to get a couple of friends from high school (though we sadly went to different places after high school) and I have "nodding acquaintance" status with a lot of people so I guess it's not that bad. However, when it comes to university, where being comfortable with talking to old guys and classmates you don't know is a pretty huge asset, it's very crippling when you get even a little behind. I still haven't fully recovered from that one failed test in ODEs :(

All that said, I think that nurture plays a huge role in all of this. I mean, we're on this forum talking about how different we are from each other, but we've lived 10-20 years of our lives so of course we'll be different. (That's not to say that "innate" differences aren't important.) Different parents and different communities have different degrees of understanding such "problems" and different ways of dealing with them. I was diagnosed at age six but since then too many people (including my parents sometimes) have accused me of being lazy or not trying. Other people I know had to deal with retarded (yes, I am intentionally using that word) crap related to learning about "personal space". In short, we are all "lucky" in some ways and "unlucky" in others.

I'm not sure how claims about over-diagnosis are supposed to contribute to this discussion. It's better to overdiagnose than underdiagnose imo. Even if we misdiagnose people and end up not helping them at all, it's a learning experience that I think is valuable to our knowledge of ourselves. What's really unfortunate is that the everyman generally has to rely on outdated behaviourist ways of evaluating other people; if someone smacks someone else with a sledgehammer and the latter shows no signs of pain whatsoever, the former could reasonably conclude that the latter felt no pain. And of course when a story goes deep into someone's inner thoughts, that is automatically considered "deep".

I don't read/watch a whole lot into Asperger's Syndrome, but I believe that the movie Adam came as close as I've seen any fictional work come to depicting a "typical aspie" (for lack of a better phrase). Even then, it would have been a lot better if Adam had more friends or something, just so people don't think we're all completely inept socially or something. Also House Rules is garbage and shouldn't have made it to a publisher.
 
I have 2 younger siblings with it, but I myself don't have it, so I can give you a view similar to what a close family member would give.
First off, a common but not well known characteristic of autism is that commonly, the person affected will become "addicted" to an item, and will focus on little but it, but then will move thier fixation to something else. For my brother, first it was power rangers, then legos, now harry potter. Not nessicarely bad, just something to notice.
This puts a huge amount of stress on everyone in your family. Extended family will feel the need to help you, even at their own expense. Your parents need to worry about any extra financial issues this may bring, as well as treating the disease. Your siblings, (I could rant on this all day but ill hold back) will begin to feel unloved by your parents, who will begin to spend more time and money on you. If you have siblings, talk it out with them and make sure both you and your parents explain that they are equally loved.
I could fill books, but most of my thoughts will just be repeats of what others say, so ill just say: Don't tell anyone outside your close circle of friends. Make sure they are educated and know not to spread the words. Aspergers sounds a lot like Ass-Burgers, and I know from experience people are all to happy to point that out.
 
Phantom_IV said:
Hmm.... It seems that our forum has a larger number of people with Asperger's than average. It's very likely that a Pokemon forum selects for individuals that may have slight Asperger's. Thoughts?
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I doubt it, honestly. Have you seen those commercials on (American) television that point out how common Autism is? Yep.
 
1 in 150 apparently have "autism"... which doesn't say a lot.

First off, a common but not well known characteristic of autism is that commonly, the person affected will become "addicted" to an item, and will focus on little but it, but then will move thier fixation to something else.
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I'm somewhat like this, but it hasn't been so bad that significant finances were lost to my fixations. I think that another major problem occurs if you become self-conscious/ashamed of your quirks, as I often was and still am (oh look I'm participating in a perfect example lol).
 
Uberiffic said:
First off, a common but not well known characteristic of autism is that commonly, the person affected will become "addicted" to an item, and will focus on little but it, but then will move thier fixation to something else. For my brother, first it was power rangers, then legos, now harry potter. Not nessicarely bad, just something to notice.
This puts a huge amount of stress on everyone in your family. Extended family will feel the need to help you, even at their own expense. Your parents need to worry about any extra financial issues this may bring, as well as treating the disease. Your siblings, (I could rant on this all day but ill hold back) will begin to feel unloved by your parents, who will begin to spend more time and money on you. If you have siblings, talk it out with them and make sure both you and your parents explain that they are equally loved.
I could fill books, but most of my thoughts will just be repeats of what others say, so ill just say: Don't tell anyone outside your close circle of friends. Make sure they are educated and know not to spread the words. Aspergers sounds a lot like Ass-Burgers, and I know from experience people are all to happy to point that out.
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Nah, this is one of the most commonly known and portrayed traits. At least, I see it very shallowly slapped into the personalities of characters with Asperger's. I can't relate to what you said about non-Aspie siblings, since both my brother (only sibling) and I were diagnosed around the same time, but neither my brother's nor my obsessions have ever caused my parents financial difficulty. It just depends on what the person becomes obsessed with. Then again, all mine are learning, rather than making giant Lego structures (Lego costs $$$ ;_;!), so just dumping me at the library / giving me Internet access / occasionally taking me to places to nurture my interests, the same way as any other child's (healthy) interest should be nutured, is enough to keep me satisfied. Of course, I do have a rather expansive Pokémon collection, but I buy the stuff myself with money I've earned.

If anything, I think it was more having to listen to me ramble 24/7 about: dolphins, the Ebola virus, Greek mythology, Ancient Egypt, the Bible (first ever obsession at the age of four, except I wasn't interested it in it spiritually lol), etc. that drove everyone around me mental. Funnily enough, since my breakdown a few years ago, I've been fairly quiet and not very outgoing at all, so now my mother loves it when I pipe up with facts that I've been reading. Before, it was all, 'Do you have to talk about Ebola when we're eating?'

Actually, rereading this post brings me onto another point: not all Asperger's children are silent and shy! I was a very talkative and gregarious little kid, even if I preferred being alone. Unfortunately, my pride in my 'eccentricities' resulted in a lot of bullying, and I've become a lot quieter, sadder, and scared of people since then.
 
I was diagnosed with this as well, thought even now I kind of wonder about it. That may be something to deal with me just being used to it, but I never found it to be that big of a deal. I've always been more worried about my bipolar disorder.

Then again I do tend to go on about things I get interested in way too much... Loud noises affect me a lot more than others too.

I get distracted and move to other things much too easily too, so seeing other people here getting like that makes it seem a little less overwhelming. That was the one thing I really worried about though I still never thought of it and Aspergers together. In my mind, it's just how I am.
 
ICSY said:
In a question tp the OP, what have your experiences of it generally been like? Have they been severe, or more moderated?
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I am much more mild now than I used to be; it's odd to me that a lot of the symptoms have lessened without any input from me. I used to talk incessantly about whatever I was currently interested in, I never used gestures (kept my arms down by my sides no matter what I was saying), I had a lot of sensory issues (serious temperature sensitivity and really bad migraines), and I couldn't read body language.

I still can't intuitively read body language, but other than that, the symptoms I listed are gone (except for the sensory issues, but those are mild now. I just have to wait longer than normal to drink hot chocolate). Instead of subconsciously taking it all in, I have to run through a mental checklist of signs I've memorized ("Okay, she's doing this, which means that").

I would have been diagnosed when I was seven, but everything my mom read said that Asperger's typically means having little to no friendships, and I've always had friends. I'm very social; I'm just as happy going out and getting drunk as I am sitting on Smogon reading analyses.

Asperger's is the reason I'm here; one of my obsessive interests is Pokémon. I downloaded an emulator and the versions of Pokémon I used to own (still do, but my Gold/Silver don't work any more) in March last year and found the Smogon forums towards the end of March from the Bulbapedia article on tiers.

capefeather said:
1 in 150 apparently have "autism"... which doesn't say a lot.



I'm somewhat like this, but it hasn't been so bad that significant finances were lost to my fixations. I think that another major problem occurs if you become self-conscious/ashamed of your quirks, as I often was and still am (oh look I'm participating in a perfect example lol).
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Well, most of that 1 in 150 is from PDD-NOS, which is basically "There's something not quite right with you, and it's severe enough for you to possibly need accomodations, but we're not sure what it is. So you get this." It's the catch-all diagnosis for when help is needed, but a more specific diagnosis isn't fit. I think that shouldn't be counted in the autism statistics.

MegaMewtwo said:
I was diagnosed at ten, I've spent more than half my life knowing about autism and Asperger's (which is NOT, in fact, just a "nice" way of saying autism) so I know what I'm talking about here.
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It might be soon; the DSM-V might eliminate the Asperger's diagnosis, and combine it with HFA. If I remember correctly, Asperger's and HFA are pretty similar, except that HFA comes with a delay in language development.

Surgo said:
I doubt it, honestly. Have you seen those commercials on (American) television that point out how common Autism is? Yep.
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Those commercials are all paid for by Autism Speaks, which is an awful organization. They spread fear about autism and do nothing to help autistic people cope and adapt. They also point out that more are diagnosed with autism (even though most of those aren't autism, but something else on the spectrum) than with "cancer, diabetes, and cystic fibrosis" like autism is something that will kill your child.
 
I learned reading when I was 3, and I could multiply 2 digit numbers by head at the age of 5. I could speak English at the age of 10 (Not my mother tongue). I feel really awkward in public or when with people I don't know very well. My parents complain about me talking loudly all the time. Often, I find myself rambling on about something, then see that other people don't seem to listen/care, and then I go "oomps". I find it hard to have eye contact. It takes a while for me to understand an order. I talk to myself a lot. I hate loud noises.

On the other hand, I am pretty social. I have my fair range of friends. I do use body language. Body contact doesn't bother me, and soccer is my favorite sport.

Do I have Asperger's, or is it just that I'm a weirdo? I don't know, and honestly don't care. People need to be less paranoid. While autism is a serious issue, mild Asperger's isn't going to make you any more different than other people.
 
I found these adapted diagnostic criteria for Asperger's Syndrome:

  1. Social impairment (extreme egocentricity) - at least two of the following:
    • Difficulties interacting with peers
    • Indifference to peer contacts
    • Difficulties interpreting social cues
    • Socially and emotionally inappropriate behaviour
  2. Narrow interest - at least one of the following:
    • Exclusion of other activities
    • Repetitive adherance
    • More memorising than understanding meaning
  3. Compulsive need for introducing routines and interests, which affect every aspect of the individual's everyday life and/or affect other people.
  4. At least three of the following speech and language peculiarities:
    • Delayed speech development
    • Superficially perfect expressive language
    • Formal pedantic language
    • Peculiar voice characteristics
    • Impairment of comprehension, including misinterpretation of literal/implied meanings
  5. At least one of the following non-verbal communication problems:
    • Limited use of gestures
    • Clumsy body language
    • Limited facial expression
    • Inappropriate facial expression
    • Peculiar, stiff gaze
  6. Physical clumsiness
Source: A Guide to Asperger Syndrome, C Gillberg (2002).

Now if you reckon that those diagnostic criteria would suggest that a large number of people have Asperger's Syndrome, it may mean that there is something wrong with the criteria or that Asperger's Syndrome is overdiagnosed, or it may be that there are a lot of people with Asperger's Syndrome. There is no proof for or against any of these possible conclusions.
 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Those commercials are all paid for by Autism Speaks, which is an awful organization. They spread fear about autism and do nothing to help autistic people cope and adapt. They also point out that more are diagnosed with autism (even though most of those aren't autism, but something else on the spectrum) than with "cancer, diabetes, and cystic fibrosis" like autism is something that will kill your child.
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I don't really know or care about how awful they are; just, is their methodology in those statistics sound? Or no?
 
I was diagnosed with Asperger's as well as ADHD, a few years ago. The thing is though, I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have it. I have the feeling that it has helped me out in certain areas in my life, such as a strong dedication to something I enjoy becoming a possible career. It may be a stupid theory of mine, but I feel that I wouldn't be as good as I am at what I do without Asperger's.
 
Objection said:
Now if you reckon that those diagnostic criteria would suggest that a large number of people have Asperger's Syndrome, it may mean that there is something wrong with the criteria or that Asperger's Syndrome is overdiagnosed, or it may be that there are a lot of people with Asperger's Syndrome. There is no proof for or against any of these possible conclusions.
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This is the same as many other mental health issues; depression, for instance, is described by a list of diagnostic criteria that could easily describe someone having a bad day or a run of bad days, without it being a true case. It's one of the inherent difficulties in mental health.
 
Just a note on Asperger's self diagnosing:

As someone said earlier, part of Asperger's is obsessive interests. I usually have one or two main ones, and one or two lesser ones. The lesser ones don't last as long, and they tend to be triggered by something being mentioned that I would like to learn about.

My main interests now are college football and Pokemon (yesterday I read every single RS analysis), and my lesser interest is lockpicking. However, when I was diagnosed, my lesser interest became Asperger's (note that "lesser" refers only to the length of time it lasts, there is only one level of obsession for me). I read everything I could find on the subject, and so many of the things I found described me exactly. Oftentimes, on the Asperger's/autism forum I'm a member of (won't give the URL here because of the advertising rule, but PM me if you're interested. It's a great place), this is what happens. A person hears something about Asperger's, it triggers their interest, and they find a ton of stuff that describes aspects of their life or personality. It is usually very easy for me to tell if a self-diagnosed person probably has it or not because of that initial obsession.

Also, the motivation for self-diagnosing can be revealing, too. I have never seen it be to "fit in". I don't do things just to fit in simply because that's not something I think about. Sure, it is nice to fit in somewhere, but I don't actively try; either I do or I don't. I have the feeling that's true for many people with Asperger's. The reason for only self-diagnosing is usually financial: some of this stuff can get expensive fast. Sometimes the reason is that an official diagnosis wouldn't do a thing. My dad obviously has it too, but he's fifty, married, and has a great job. He doesn't need a diagnosis for accomodations or for understanding.

More about obsessive interests:

It's amazing just how much you can learn from these; it's what makes me glad I have Asperger's (would I be if I had more social troubles? Who knows). The best part of it is that learning all this stuff is fun; the only thing I like more than learning about an interest is talking about it with someone. Would anyone like to share anything about their current ones? As I said before, my main ones are college football and Pokemon. My college football obsession started when I got NCAA '04 for my birthday in 04, and got into full swing my freshman year of college. My obsession with Pokemon is actually my second one, my first started when I got Blue for Christmas in 1998 and ended sometime in 2001. Then the release of Platinum in March got me reinterested, and I found Bulbapedia and Smogon almost right away. My interest in lockpicking started last month when my two roommates and I decided to break into what used to be our third roommate's room (he was taking the semester off, so it was empty and locked). We couldn't get the lock picked (a really good deadbolt, probably with a pin on the bottom too, is not a good place to start), so we got a coat hanger, untwisted it, made a loop on the end, and snaked it between the door and the wall. Then we grabbed the lock with the loop and unlocked the door from the inside. I still can't pick a lock, but that was a fun day.
 
Yah, also have Asperger's Syndrome here too, along with Tourrette's.

My main interests tend to shift alot.... my first real 'obcession' was with volocanoes. This was when I was 6, I spent hours and hours browsing through the library, the internet, even textbooks for information on them. I still have books on them that are about 400 pages long in my home bookshelf - and I read them for fun - good times, good times.

Later on, as I grew up, perhaps around the age of 12, I gained an interest in Black Holes. Specifically to the trivia about them, I didn't actually enjoy doing any of the math equations, I just enjoyed knowing as many cool facts about them as I could. My favorite Black Hole book was perhaps Kip Thorne's 'Black Holes and Time Warps', and it went into a lot of detail on them, and their 'curious' aspects.

The most recent obsession I had was of course, with Pokemon. That was when I was 15. And that's when I got involved here. I still enjoy pokemon, but not to the extent I did, probably because I get bored using the same strategy over and over - and am always looking for new strategies which destroy the meta-game. I still talk about Pokemon with my friend Sassafrass (the one with the Ninjask-Octillery team on Shoddy) and help him plan out his teams and stuff, but I'm not so involved anymore.

I have noticed that with time, as I seem to grow less and less Autistic, probably due to understanding people better and better, my interests get less and less intense. I no longer talk of them obsessively. I still enjoy conversing about them, but no longer gravitate to them in the same way I used to. This is both a good thing and a bad thing I guess, but it makes talking to other people infinitely easier. The last time I talked about something obsessively like that was probably in 2005-2006, in 7th grade.

I don't truly have an opinion on self-diagnosing. What I do notice though is that there are some people who are 'slightly Autistic' who don't get recognized, as well as do get recognized. However, to me, it seems better if it is recognized, because it can often get those people services they need to learn better ways to deal with society.
 
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