Metagame originally created by Fusxfaranto, permission to post this granted by Eevee General
Averagemons is an OM with one key feature: every single Pokémon has the exact same stat spread of 100/100/100/100/100/100, no matter how lowly or monstrous they normally are. This leaves everything down to movepool, typing, and ability, bring some Pokémon you might not expect to the top!

Soul Dew
Thick Club
Light Ball

Sableye + Prankster

Huge Power
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Arena Trap

All OU clauses apply. All unreleased Pokémon, items, and abilities are banned.

Feel free to post sets and discuss anything related to Averagemons here! Here's a discussion point to start us off: what effect will the new bans and the new stuff from ORAS have on the metagame? Are any of the new megas worth using?

This meta can be played on the main Pokémon Showdown server through challenge.

s/o to gogurtgoat for putting in the sprites for the viability rankings !!

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the Averagemons metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

Primal Groudon

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Averagemons metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits. These Pokemon exert a strong presence in the metagame.

A+ Rank:

A Rank:

A- Rank:

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Averagemons metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame.

B+ Rank:

B Rank:
Primal Kyogre

B- Rank:

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Averagemons metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame.

C+ Rank:
Charizard-Mega (X)

C Rank:

C- Rank:

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the Averagemons metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

so apparantly there is a cure for cancer. even if it only works on metas
seriously speaking tho pidgeot is outclassed by the likes of pelipper dnite and yveltal
beedrill is probably outclassed by crawdaunt
gallade is outclassed by base gallade
steelix is outclassed by excadrill
glalie is unique but still suffers from being a support mega
audino is outclassed by wiggly
slowbro is actually good due to koff semi immunity and immunity to crits but is otherwise outclassed by base slowbro(especially when it holds its stone)
swampert is only worthwhile when paired with ogre or toed
sceptile is outclassed by serperior
salamence could be worthwhile for a set that uses flying since noivern is only dragon with physical flying stab
I can see metagross being better than its base for the damage increase on physical and mixed sets
pridon will probably see some use as physical fire/ground
priogre cant support the team
camerupt will see use on a lot of teams with his newfound ability to sweep
sharpedo will be very good with the ability to outspeed the meta and deal large amounts of damage

did I miss any?
Oh i loved averagemons back then glad it finally made it to ORAS i guess chestnaught outclasses breloom as a wall due to access to drain punch and king's shield sure it faces competition with cacturne but grass/fighting is so much better than grass/dark
Actually thinking about it, is there any reason to use a Mega that's not called Mega Rayquaza? It has a great ability, good movepool, and doesn't even eat up your item slot. Meanwhile most of the other megas aren't really worth it outside of maybe stuff with -ate abilities and Megagross who gets a free LO on contact moves.
One Pokemon that got a lot more viable in ORAS is Dragalge, gaining access to its Hidden Ability Adaptability:

Dragalge @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Scald/Hydro Pump/Toxic Spikes
- Thunderbolt/Toxic Spikes

Dragalge's is a ridiculously poweful wallbreaker with Specs Draco Meteors, almost nothing can stand up to it. Here are some calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 388-458 (113.7 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 388-458 (96 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 280-330 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 140-166 (34.6 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Not even fairies are safe from it, as they are cleanly taken out by STAB Sludge Wave:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 408-484 (100.9 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Dragalge has some issues breaking through Steels, but Hydro Pump can 2HKO them if they aren't invested in their defenses, or you can fish for a burn with Scald or set up Toxic Spikes:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 164-194 (48 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Thunderbolt is pretty situational, but it hits Skarmory and Empoleon harder than any of its other moves.
Ah its back :)

I'm really excited to play this meta now that it has been updated and the cancer known as Sableye has been eradicated, as well as Our Lord Mega Kanga.

Something I ran a bit in the before times was Azumarill on stall who carries a slew of useful support moves and either Sap Sipper or Thick Fat to stomach hits from mons.

Azumarill @ Leftovers
Trait: Sap Sipper / Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD **[Alternatively a specially defensive spread but imo its typing caters more towards to walling physical threats]**
Bold / Calm Nature
- Scald / Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Perish Song
- Encore / Ice Beam / Play Rough

If you wanna get cheesy tho:

Azumarill @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat **[Pretty sure Sap Sipper is illegal with Whirlpool? Irdk]**
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Whirlpool
- Perish Song
- Protect / Rest
- Knock Off / Play Rough

can't wait to see how the new meta turns out, very excited to see its return :)
Seems I forgot about rayquaza and crayquaza.

Salamence has flying stab that can be stronger/weaker/the same as ray and crayquaza depending on which move salamence has and which item ray or crayquaza has.

Crayquaza doesn't function as well as it should in its best role(stall) since its forced to run berd ascent. offensively its outclassed by its base form due to ray being able to smack flying types with SE moves.

basically crayquaza isn't as good as some people thought.
Yay, this used to be my favorite meta, glad to see it back. :D

Well, I only played it when it wasn't OMotM, so I look forward to playing it when this gets OMotM.

Let me see, how shall I play this.....Oh I know, I'll stall the ladder to death! >:D
then i'll kill it to deth.

I also realized I forgot lopunny when addressing the new megas.
starbucks is definitely a good mon here
+1 252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO(this is a neutral hit)

with power up punch starbucks can 2HKO all neutrals and OHKO all SE with high jump kick and if it can manage to boost twice it 2HKOs resists with return and can use drain punch for recovery

though in all honesty sharpedo is the best new mega here.
What do people think is the ideal way to deal with Speed? If every 'mon has a base 100 stat, going Timid/Jolly max Speed means you'll get outsped 50% of the time by any other 'mon with the same nature. Is that 50% chance worth it, or should you just got Adamant/Modest no Speed for greater power? I'd imagine it depends on how good your defensive typing is, as everyone has a respectable 100/100/100 defensive spread.

In other news, Furfrou is a god (base stats altered to match the meta):

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 127-151 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

You can also run a specially defensive spread to be an unstoppable mixed tank, or Cotton Guard for silliness:

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 51-61 (12.6 - 15%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 33-39 (8.1 - 9.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Dragalge's pre-evolution also becomes very powerful in Averagemons, packing a unique Water/Poison Adaptability combination that gives it two very powerful STAB that hit most everything in Averagemons very hard. In addition, its resistances to Poison, Steel, Ice and Fairy give it excellent synergy with Dragon and Fairy types. With Adaptability Scald, even Water resists need to be wary of its combined burn chance and power.

Skrelp @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power Grass/Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump/Dragon Pulse/Hidden Power Fire/Toxic Spikes

Scald is its most spam-able move, with 160 BP and a 30% chance of burn any physical attacker without water immunity or Guts will not want to switch in on Skrelp. Even 252HP/252+ SpD pokemon (without AV) that are hit neutrally are 2HKO'd with Specs Scald after burn or unresisted hazard damage. Sludge Wave is its main Poison STAB, especially since with Scald it'll prefer to spread burns. Hidden Power Grass lets it hit Water-immune mons that also resist Poison, while Thunderbolt hits harder against Empoleon and other Water types except Water/Ground.

Hydro Pump is highly recommended for its fourth slot if you run Life Orb so it can break through bulky Steel types. Dragon Pulse gives a 50/50 (depending on the speed tie) vs Dragalge and offensive Giratina if they're hit on the switch with either Specs or LO and prevents full SpD invested Resttalk Giratina from walling it, while Hidden Power Fire takes down Ferrothorns that otherwise also wall it. As with Dragalge, it can also opt to set up Toxic Spikes if a counter might switch in.

Its counters amusingly include its big brother Dragalge, who resists Skrelps' dual STAB and main coverage moves and threatens to OHKO it with Draco Meteor. Only Specs Skrelp hitting with Icy Wind on the switch can nullify Dragalge as a threat. SpD Resttalk Giratina can wall any Skrelp without Dragon Pulse. Dialga is its strongest hard counter, as without any defense investment it's at best 86.7% 2HKO'd by Skrelp's Specs Hydro Pump (or 64.5% 2HKO'd with Scald + burn AND spikes) and threatens it with a 75% chance to OHKO with 252+ SpA Specs Thunder or 2HKO with 252 SpA Thunderbolt without any boosts/item. Resttalk Dialga with just HP investment completely walls any Skrelps set.

Skrelp pairs excellently with Hydreigon, who resists all of Skrelp's weaknesses except Freeze Dry and Skrelp in turn resists Hydreigon's weaknesses except Dragon moves. Mawile covers both the Freeze Dry and Dragon weaknesses, and together they pack the resistances and coverage to form a fantastic offensive core. The icing on the cake is that the trio is completely immune to Toxic Spikes.

Skrelp also enjoys having counters to Dialga.

Adaptability Scald or even Hydro Pump doesn't hit quite as hard as Draco Meteor (unless you've got rain up, then Hydro Pump Skrelp out-nukes Draco Meteor Dragalge), but Skrelp still possesses tremendous power and doesn't require switching out after nuking. It also doesn't have to worry as much about immunities against its dual STAB (Klefki and Mawile have immunity to both of Dragalge's STAB attacks, for example). If your team has Dragon or Fairy types on it, want Dragalge but your team is already Ice/Dragon weak, or simply want a very powerful Water/Poison wallbreaker, you might want to check this little guy out.
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Just wanted to share some sets I've been using:

Swoobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Simple
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Substitute/Roost
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Heat Wave

Very potent sweeper, absolutely destroys stall teams. Stored Power is ridiculously powerful after a couple of boosts, even breaking through Unaware thanks to the boosted base power. Sub makes it easier to set up on mons like Amoonguss and Alomomola which would just Spore or Toxic you otherwise. Heat Wave hits steels and other mons that resist Stored Power, but it's pretty weak even at +2. I threw the EV spread together with very little thought, it might be worth experimenting with more speed or special attack investment.

BIG MEATY CLAWS (Crawdaunt) @ Choice Band/Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
- Crabhammer
- Switcheroo/Superpower

Very potent wallbreaker/revenge killer. Water+Dark has great coverage, and it hits extremely hard with Adaptability. Switcheroo cripples defensive mons like Clefable that would otherwise cause Crawdaunt trouble if you run band, but Superpower is also nice for hitting steels. Boosting sets with Swords Dance/Dragon Dance have potential but I haven't tried it yet.

Porygon-Z @ Silk Scarf/Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball
- Recover/coverage

Powerful boosting sweeper, unfortunately it doesnt really have much to hit bulky steels. Can break through physically defensive Unaware thanks to the sheer power of Adapt Tri Attack:

252+ SpA Silk Scarf Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 192-228 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

A Specs set might seem appealing, but Exploud pretty much 100% outclasses it.

Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Toxic/Stealth Rock/Aerial Ace

Really great mon, traps and kills a variety of mons thanks to EdgeQuake combo, and is a decent revenge killer with Sucker Punch. Pairs really well with Talonflame and Dragalge, trapping and killing the rock and steel types that wall them, respectively. Last slot is basically filler: Stealth Rock is handy but it can be difficult to find time to set it up with Dug, Aerial Ace hits grass types, but it's still weak af even with a super effective hit, and Toxic lets Dug beat some defensive mons that it wouldn't be able to otherwise.

Aerodactyl @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock

Adrian Marin used this set against me to great effect, so I tried it out and I have not been dissapointed. Aero is a top notch Talonflame counter and it has a wide range of utility moves to support the team. It has a lot of other good moves you could try out if Defog/SR is already covered by another mon on your team, like Taunt, Earthquake, and Whirlwind.

Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 220 SpA / 36 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Rock Climb
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Strong mixed wallbreaker, very powerful + really great coverage. I have no idea what the optimal spread for this set is, I didnt put any thought into the evs. I didn't make this set, someone destroyed me with it, i think it was either Pagoose or Moniker.

and here are some random replays, enjoy:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/averagemons-202076753 Me vs Moniker
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/averagemons-201813018 Me vs insanelegend
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/averagemons-201270497 Me vs Moniker
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/averagemons-201268052 Me vs Pagoose
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/averagemons-200999813 Me vs Adrian Marin (warning: very long)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/averagemons-200992708 Me vs DreMZ
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/averagemons-200990818 Me vs cnahdgfausdc
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/averagemons-200937206 Me vs Moniker
Some things that look interesting in Averagemons now thanks to ORAS move tutors/ORAS in general/Still may be good.

Has nice utility in Parting shot, semi-reliable recovery with drain punch, taunt to mess with stall, bulk up if you like boosting, knock off, and a decent movepool with things like the elemental punches and GUNK SHOT.

dual priority recovery options, nasty plot, PROTEAN, a wide movepool, stealth rocks, knock off, and more.

Yveltal has knock off and some other support options, along with a free life orb boost to dark type attacks and has U-turn.

Blaziken looks pretty stronk. Speed boost, swords dance, baton pass, an actual movepool. What could possibly go wrong?

Deoxys still exists,still has it's unholy movepool and has cosmic power for extra annoyingness. It does have it's crummy typing though.

Too bad Togekiss is fairy type, i would have otherwise use hustle-extremespeed on it for fun.
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Other Metas Mobile Research Laboratory

What is this? It's a mini-project to spark discussion within the subject's thread instead of siphoning it off into a new thread somewhere else. Each week or so I'll post a new topic in a metagame or pet mod. Topics will vary from thread to thread, so make sure to check out each one to see if it's something you want to participate in. Plus, if it dies, at least there isn't an empty thread cluttering up the subforum. (intro by Eevee General)

Week 3 - Averagemons
Topic - Stall and its role in the metagame
Viable Stall mons:

Help me fill in the rest!


    • How viable is stall in the current metagame?
    • What Pokemon are missing from the above list?
    • What does a stall team need to function?
    • What Pokemon/strategies cause problems for stall teams?
I'll add things brought up by you as necessary to complete our research. Just like anywhere else in the forums, contributing well thought out ideas can lead to rewards. I'll keep track of the best contributors throughout this project, so stay consistent!
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These are two pretty good defensive pokemon with intimidate, reliable recovery, and good typings. Mamp can testify for their effectiveness; these two worked great when I battled him a few days ago, although I didn't save the replay. They also have access to some cool support moves; salamence gets heal bell was thinking of dnite and defog, while arcanine gets will-o-wisp and extremespeed to pick off weakened pokes. Here are some calcs that show damage from some of the strongest physical attackers in the game. Using mew for calcs:

-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 112-133 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- 81.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 109-130 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- 45.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 143-169 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- 79.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Dragalge Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 193-228 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Eevee Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I believe the only thing in the game that can 2hko at neutral is choice band v-create.
Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake/Fire Blast/Toxic
- Defog/Toxic
- Roost

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
- ExtremeSpeed
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun

Also btw the person who used tauros was me. Not exactly the same set though.
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Gliscor with one of the two big names in passive recovery(the other being regenerator) and immunity to status it becomes trearfying to attempt to take down unless you have an attack that is 4 time effective nothing can kill it unless it wins the speed tie and even then a set with agility allows it to out speed every scarfer and safely sub/protect toxic stall every thing to death even ice shard from Lo mamoswine can not take it down steel types do give that set problems though. if those are what you are worried about use earth power/earthquake

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic

Replay against Mamp with a stall team I made. Features Serperior, which definitely has the potential to be a very strong threat:

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Taunt

This set functions extremely well as both a stallbreaker and a late game sweeper. Leaf Storm is obviously extremely powerful STAB and boosts its SpA every time its used, allowing it to plow through even fully invested mons. Toxic, Substitute, and Taunt allow it to stallbreak even more effectively, and more importantly allows it to take out Clefable, which is normally extremely difficult to get rid of in Averagemons.

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