Having played against Belly Drum Azumarill and used it a bit myself, I find it surprisingly lackluster. It is a decent sweeper, but I find that Choice Band just does more for your team, and on a consistent basis as well. Belly Drum Azumarill can not risk checking attackers like the CB set can because if it takes any damage you jeopardize your opportunity to set up a Belly Drum in the future. That sacrifices one of Azumarill's best attributes: utilizing its great typing to pivot and check threats for a team. It just seems a shame that you can not use a Dragon-immunity, Fighting-resist, and Water-resist off of decent bulk for a team because you shoehorn it to safety so it can pull off a Belly Drum. Azumarill is put to a lot better use firing off really powerful attacks off of its resistances consistently throughout the match than setting up off its resistances for one-time and only one time in the match. That one time isn't from you winning of course :p
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Pokémon Azumarill
- Thread starter Don Honchkrorleone
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I understand this, but Belly Drum Azumarill rewards very well. Outrage locked pokemons, Encored Pokemons and the like are always an awesome opportunity for Azumarill. It needs the team support, right, but if you can pull it off right, you can defeat most, if not all of opponent's pokemon. Also, with Baton Pass and +2 on Speed, Belly Drum Azumarill murders EVERYTHING on metagame, other than Venusaur.
I totally agree. Bring in Azumarill after Venasuar is gone, and you can pretty much sweep entire teams with BD up. If they don't have a faster Priority user (or users) they lose. It's such a great feeling when you see your opponent miss read you Azumarill and switch out, and then realize they lose and they simply forfeit :)
Azumarill is also walled by Mega Venusaur, a big defensive threat in this metagame.
BellyJet Azumarill is a monster. I swear with out a Water Absorber like Heliolisk that also dosen't get OHKO by Play Rough.
So...Lanturn is a good counter IMHO.
(If you run Water Absorb instead of Volt Absorb)
So...Lanturn is a good counter IMHO.
(If you run Water Absorb instead of Volt Absorb)
lanturn's destroyed by play rough though, so he's a rough check, not a counter
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 277-327 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 270-320 (66.8 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 178-211 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 186-222 (46 - 54.9%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO
and this is without the +6 from belly drum.
That's true.
Though honestly a Plus 6 from Belly Drum is going to destroy ANYTHING.
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 250-295 (95.7 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
On paper Lanturn outspeeds Azumarill but your speed investment is your premise. So if Lanturn switches in on the Aqua Jet it has a chance of beating Azumarill.
252+ SpA Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So it is a rough check.
Though honestly a Plus 6 from Belly Drum is going to destroy ANYTHING.
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 250-295 (95.7 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
On paper Lanturn outspeeds Azumarill but your speed investment is your premise. So if Lanturn switches in on the Aqua Jet it has a chance of beating Azumarill.
252+ SpA Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 272-324 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So it is a rough check.
Does anybody run Jolly + Max Speed on the Belly Drum set? I've seen it mentioned a few times and on some RMT's, but not much over here.
I've noticed that Rotom now runs enough speed to outrun this spread, so is it just speed creeping outdated Rotoms at this point?
I've noticed that Rotom now runs enough speed to outrun this spread, so is it just speed creeping outdated Rotoms at this point?
It was fun while it lasted, but rotom w users have simply figured out a mere 44 evs in speed allow it to outspeed jolly azumarill. Yeah not really worth it at this point.
How useful is a pure defensive set with Azumarill? Sure, Huge Power Aqua Jet and Belly Drum seem too good to pass up, but on second notice, it has quite the amount of support moves in it's movepool. Some notes:
Advantages:
- Sap Sipper makes a weakness an immunity. The attack boost is kinda useless though.
- 6 resistances, and 2 immunities = one awesome defensive typing.
- 100/80/80 defenses is honestly not too shabby.
- Scald, Knock Off, Light Screen (but no Reflect), Toxic, Tickle, Perish Song, and Encore are some of the great support moves it has.
Disadvantages:
- Stiff competition with other bulky waters, which are on the usage decline anyway.
- No reliable recovery (other than ResTalk) really hurts.
- No offensive presence without Huge Power, so it will be relying on status and entry hazards to wear down an opponent.
I haven't tested it, but I can see this work as a neat surprise set. If you are willing to give Azumarill a new spotlight, it sounds pretty decent on paper.
Advantages:
- Sap Sipper makes a weakness an immunity. The attack boost is kinda useless though.
- 6 resistances, and 2 immunities = one awesome defensive typing.
- 100/80/80 defenses is honestly not too shabby.
- Scald, Knock Off, Light Screen (but no Reflect), Toxic, Tickle, Perish Song, and Encore are some of the great support moves it has.
Disadvantages:
- Stiff competition with other bulky waters, which are on the usage decline anyway.
- No reliable recovery (other than ResTalk) really hurts.
- No offensive presence without Huge Power, so it will be relying on status and entry hazards to wear down an opponent.
I haven't tested it, but I can see this work as a neat surprise set. If you are willing to give Azumarill a new spotlight, it sounds pretty decent on paper.
Honestly, if it wasn't for Huge Power, Azumarill would be sitting on the depths of UU right now. Azumarill is a bulky attacker. Any other role you try to give him, be it support, walling or whatever, it's outclassed by a lot of other mons. 50 offenses, and only 100/80/80 defenses, not to mention a 50 base speed, make Azumarill a terrible choice for a defensive set.
CB's more consistent, that's really all there is to say on the matter. It's more of a risk/reward thing than one set being better than the other, the way I see it.
252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
Don't even bother with Poison Jab.
Vaporeon's rather frail physically unless you have acid armors set up beforehand; I'd look to something like Mega Venusaur if you need an Azumarill counter. Plenty of bulk, resists both of azu's STABs and hits it SE with both of its STABs.
252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 372-440 (103.9 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gonna go ahead and call Chomp a "no" here. It only takes a piece out of the non-Belly Drum variant, and gets 1HKOd by the Aqua Jet variant.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 177-208 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Toxic+Wish/Protect stall on a physically defensive Vaporeon will wear down an Azu unless it is a BellyJet variant, which can 1HKO with a neutral move and be done with it. Vaporeon can force out a banded Azu if it's choice locked into Aqua Jet or Waterfall thanks to Water Absorb. It can't really do much against a choice-locked Play Rough or the Belly Jet variant except pray for a burn or drop a toxic and go down stalling.
I've had a lot of success with Banded Azumarill. I've dropped the speed EVs and put them into HP to give it more bulk. Even without outspeeding Jellicent:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 358-423 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Not bad in my opinion, and I have yet to actually run into a Jellicent online.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 358-423 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Not bad in my opinion, and I have yet to actually run into a Jellicent online.
Mega Venu can handle most grass and electric types so makes a good partner and also walls other Azumarill.
This is my Azu set:
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Huge power
Nature: Adament
EVs: 200 HP 252 Atk 56 Spe
Move 1: Play Rough
Move 2: Aqua jet
Move 3: Super Power
Move 4: Return
as most can see the most noteable differensce is in the move return. I find it most useful cause i come up with things that resist EVERYTHING i have, except return. This can also be useful as a switch in move, since a lot of pokes will immediately switch out when he comes on the field. Return is a realiable attack unless on steel or ghost. I think having it is better than running 2 water type attacks. and it makes it a lot harder to deal with!
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Huge power
Nature: Adament
EVs: 200 HP 252 Atk 56 Spe
Move 1: Play Rough
Move 2: Aqua jet
Move 3: Super Power
Move 4: Return
as most can see the most noteable differensce is in the move return. I find it most useful cause i come up with things that resist EVERYTHING i have, except return. This can also be useful as a switch in move, since a lot of pokes will immediately switch out when he comes on the field. Return is a realiable attack unless on steel or ghost. I think having it is better than running 2 water type attacks. and it makes it a lot harder to deal with!
Only three things in OU resist Water/Fairy - Tentacruel, Ferrothorn and MVenusaur. Ferrothorn resists Return and MVenasaur is 3HKO'd at best while 2HKOing back with Giga Drain. Losing out on Waterfall's nuking ability just to beat Tentacruel doesn't seem worth it.
i see you're point but return has some big nuking ability too. idk i just kinda feel like have 2 water types is repetitive, but everyone likes working with their own thing and that Azu works for me, even on showdown where there are a lot more pokemon. mind sharing your opinion on Belly Drum? i've considered getting one for myself but idk
Aside from those 3 things, there's nothing that will be hit harder by Return than by Waterfall or Play Rough. Your argument doesn't really make sense. Also check the last 14 pages of the thread, BD vs. CB has been discussed at length. Basically, CB is more reliable but BD hurts more if you pull it off. Neither is necessarily better.
yeah but i'm not arguing return being better i'm just saying for me i like it more thats all
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