B&W Research Thread

I think he meant "does No Guard allow the user to hit a Pokémon through Substitute?" (similar to hitting Flying or Digging Pokémon)
 
I know it says Shadow Tag doesn't prevent rotation, but just to be thorough, Arena Trap should probably be added to that statement.

Tested this one over at the Opelucid rotation battle house in Black.
 
veekun said:
The Gracidea must be used again to return to Sky Forme.
Does this mean that, in the rare event that a Skymin is frozen, reverts to Land Form, and thaws out, it will not return to Sky Form?

That'd be interesting, and as I don't have a Shaymin to test with, I'd like to know.
 
@CPU: I think you will need to use a Gracidea again for Shaymin.

@Phi: not really top priority right now since Imposter's unreleased, but I'd imagine that Ditto will transform anyway.
 
This thread isn't about might or maybe.

I will test these later and update this post with the results.

EDIT:

Tested both.

#1 CPU:

Indeed after you are frozen and thawed out Shaymin will stay in its Land form.

#2 Phi:

Yes you will still transform via Imposter even when you are behind a sub.
 
I'm looking for some clarification on how Friend Guard works. There is a frustrating lack of solid information on this. The OP here says it "reduces damage done to a teammate by 25%", but that's awfully vague. Does it reduce damage taken from allies, enemies or both? In a triple battle, does it only work on allies adjacent to the user?
 
Past Generations Conversion couldn't select Curse because of the ??? type. The thing is in this Gen. Curse is an Ghost-type move. Can conversion select it right now?

Edit: No need anymore, I tested and Conversion really selected curse, making smeargle a ghost type.
 
Zyrac:

My description for Friend Guard reads:

Effectiveness of attacks against allies of the bearer (except confusion damage) is multiplied by 3/4. (This effect is cumulative.)

Accordingly, Friend Guard affects attacks no matter which Pokemon caused the attack (otherwise it would have read, for example, "attacks by opposing Pokemon against allies of the bearer"; it doesn't affect confusion damage, though) and even if the Pokemon with Friend Guard and the ally are not adjacent (otherwise it would have read "attacks against adjacent allies of the bearer"). I've tested this Ability to make sure of this.
 

Peterko

Never give up!
is a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
OK something weird just happened in my game:

I´m battling this Elite 4 fighting guy and his last Pokémon Conkeldurr just used Hammer Arm on my Rhyhorn, Rhyhorn magically (it has a much lower level and was at 50% HP) survived the hit with 1 HP left, but there was the animation as if it fainted.

Now the game asks me "Battle using which Pokémon?" and when I click the 1/179 HP Rhyhorn it says Rhyhorn IN BATTLE and clicking on Rhyhorn again I get a message "Rhyhorn is already in battle!"




Afterwards I clicked another Pokémon to send it out, but then the game froze on this screen...



I didn´t know where else to post it. Also I haven´t altered the game in any way, have not traded with anyone, etc. It´s probably nothing major, but maybe someone else has similar experience.
 
I'm assuming this is the legit copy of the game and not a patched rom?

If so then I will look into this further.
 
What's with the 2 Metagrosses with the same nick and HP?

I haven't really been able to replicate this though. It might be something wrong with your game. :/
 
Have you tried calculating the damage to see if it could have survived anyway?

But then again, that would be a 4th Gen Calculation, and I have an inkling that the formula's changed somewhat, since I had a foe's Boldore survive a hit with 1 HP left (not Sturdy, no activation message) when I don't think it would have otherwise. Unfortunately I can't find my notes on what happened at the moment.
 
OK something weird just happened in my game:

I´m battling this Elite 4 fighting guy and his last Pokémon Conkeldurr just used Hammer Arm on my Rhyhorn, Rhyhorn magically (it has a much lower level and was at 50% HP) survived the hit with 1 HP left, but there was the animation as if it fainted.

Now the game asks me "Battle using which Pokémon?" and when I click the 1/179 HP Rhyhorn it says Rhyhorn IN BATTLE and clicking on Rhyhorn again I get a message "Rhyhorn is already in battle!"




Afterwards I clicked another Pokémon to send it out, but then the game froze on this screen...



I didn´t know where else to post it. Also I haven´t altered the game in any way, have not traded with anyone, etc. It´s probably nothing major, but maybe someone else has similar experience.
Someone posted a thread where about this happening a few months ago (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103040) so you're definitely not alone. It doesn't seem anyone knows why this happens, but it appears the only solution is to turn off the game or (if possible) forfeit the battle.
 
That has happened before, it's similar to what the Battle Subway does when that one Fisherman guy sends out his fainted Vanilluxe/Starmie/Walrein, but I suppose when the same situation happens for the player, it just freezes the game.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean anything, it's just a rare glitch.

Edit: OH COME ON, MELVNI
 
it could possibly be a damage overflow or something since the linked thread has a random and probably low-levelled Cottonee involved.

As Conkeldurr has a ridiculously high Attack stat and the level difference is approx. 15(Rhyhorn is LV 58 if I saw that correctly and Marshal's Conkeldurr is 72 on the rematch), and the attack used was a SE Hammer Arm, I suppose that it could be possible that the game couldn't handle that much overkill. I dunno actually, just my 2 cents.
 
That doesn't seem right, though. There's ways to do much bigger overkill since previews gens (Kyogre using Surf on Geodude, anyone?) and they didn't overflow. BW has better technology, why would it?

The only overflow I've heard of in Pokémon is Marowak in GSC, which was understandable because it was on a GBC cartridge. But on a DS one? I think that's unlikely.

No idea of anything else it could be, however. :/
 
I'm not really so sure, but I was looking around and found that the reported cases involved a lot of damage being done(Hammer Arm on Rhyhorn, and Hi Jump Kick on Cottonee).

It's actually possible since in some hacks of B/W some trainers are hacked with LV 99 Pokemon and they give out lolz EXP, possibly an underflow or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdx5e7rcHrE scroll to around 3:25. When Flareon kills Volcarona he only gains 800 something EXP.

Since B/W has things like 3D engine and what not, you never know. :/
 
I'm going to assume that a badged researcher would have only posted this if the game was legit and not a patched rom.

Of course the idea of a damage overflow is almost ridiculous. Since the upgrade to ds I have done some massive damage including V-creating a lv5 with my lv100 Victini with a choice band. I just simply think we are taking this the wrong route.

I will be testing this out to confirm the details however I don't think pulling at straws is the right answer.
 

Peterko

Never give up!
is a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I'm assuming this is the legit copy of the game and not a patched rom?
If so then I will look into this further.
Lol of course not a rom, it´s a legit copy of the game.

@ TM13 I don´t hack, those 2 metagross are just normal in-game clones from emerald (emerald tower cloning) -> rsfrlge -> black, not cheats

the rhyhorn is a baby that I bred today, it was level 58 at that point, holding a lucky egg, conkeldurr is level 73

The turn it happened, I used revive on the second metagross (to explode later) and conkeldurr hammer armed rhyhorn (it was at 89 / 179 HP because it was revived)...

Maybe some games just glitch once in 450 hours or so and it´ll never happen again...
 
Tentative Probably the list of moves that are not blocked by substitute
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?flag_mystery=yes
I have compiled three lists from the link quoted above which contains every move within the game. These three lists are in alphabetical order and are categorised into: Moves that are completely blocked by Substitute, moves that are unaffected by Substitute and moves that are partially blocked by Substitute. The third list will contain moves that cause the Substitute damage but at least one of their effects will be blocked. I felt the third list was necessary as being classed as "Blocked" may be misleading for some people.

After you
Bestow
Block
Captivate
Charm
Confuse Ray
Cotton Spore
Dark Void
Entrainment
Fake Tears
FeatherDance
Flash
Flatter
Gastro Acid
Glare
GrassWhistle
Growl
Guard Split
Heal Pulse
Hypnosis
Kinesis
Leech Seed
Leer
Lock-On
Lovely Kiss
Mean Look
Metal Sound
Mind Reader
Nightmare
Pain Split
Poison Gas
PoisonPowder
Power Split
Psycho Shift
Quash
Sand-Attack
Scary Face
Screech
Simple Beam
Sing
Sky Drop
Sleep Powder
SmokeScreen
Soak
Spider Web
Spore
String Shot
Stun Spore
Supersonic
Swagger
Sweet Kiss
Sweet Scent
Switcheroo
Tail Whip
Teeter Dance
Telekinesis
Thunder Wave
Tickle
Toxic
Transform
Trick
Will-O-Wisp
Worry Seed
Yawn


Absorb
Acid Armor
Acrobatics
Acupressure
Aerial Ace
Aeroblast
Agility
Air Cutter
Ally Switch
Amnesia
AncientPower
Aqua Jet
Aqua Ring
Aqua Tail
Arm Thrust
Aromatherapy
Assist
Assurance
Attack Order
Attract
Aura Sphere
Automize
Avalanche
Barrage
Barrier
Baton Pass
Beat Up
Belly Drum
Bide
Blast Burn
Bonemerang
Bone Rush
Brave Bird
Brick Break
Brine
Bulk Up
Bullet Punch
Bullet Seed
Calm Mind
Camouflage
Charge
Charge Beam
Chip Away
Close Combat
Coil
Counter
Comet Punch
Conversion
Conversion 2
Copycat
Cosmic Power
Cotton Guard
Crabhammer
Cross Chop
Crush Grip
Curse
Cut
Defend Order
Defense Curl
Destiny Bond
Detect
Dig
Disable
Dive
Doom Desire
Double-Edge
Double Hit
Double Kick
DoubleSlap
Double Team
Draco Meteor
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance
Dragon Pulse
Dragon Rage
Drain Punch
Dream Eater
Drill Peck
Drill Run
Duel Chop
Earthquake
Echoed Voice
Egg Bomb
Electro Ball
Embargo
Encore
Endeavor
Endure
Eruption
Explosion
ExtremeSpeed
Facade
Faint Attack
False Swipe
Feint
Fiery Dance
Final Gambit
Fire Pledge
Flail
Flame Burst
Flame Charge
Fly
Focus Energy
Focus Punch
Follow Me
Foresight
Foul Play
Frenzy Plant
Frost Breath
Frustration
Fury Attack
Fury Cutter
Fury Swipes
Fusion Bolt
Fusion Flare
Future Sight
Gear Grind
Giga Drain
Giga Impact
Grass Knot
Grass Pledge
Gravity
Growth
Grudge
Guard Swap
Gust
Gyro Ball
Hail
Hammer Arm
Harden
Haze
Head Charge
Head Smash
Heal Block
Heal Bell
Healing Wish
Heal Order
Heart Swap
Heat Crash
Heavy Slam
Helping Hand
Hex
Hidden Power
Hi Jump Kick
Hone Claws
Horn Attack
Horn Leech
Howl
Hydro Cannon
Hydro Pump
Hyper Beam
Hyper Voice
Ice Ball
Ice Shard
Icicle Spear
Imprison
Ingrain
Iron Defense
Judgement
Jump Kick
Karate Chop
Last Resort
Leaf Blade
Leaf Storm
Leech Life
Light Screen
Low Kick
Lucky Chant
Lunar Dance
Mach Punch
Magical Leaf
Mirror Coat
Magic Room
Magnet Bomb
Magnet Rise
Magnitude
Meditate
Me First
Mega Drain
Megahorn
Mega Kick
Mega Punch
Metal Burst
Metal Claw
Meteor Mash
Metronome
Milk Drink
Mimic
Minimize
Miracle Eye
Mirror Coat
Mirror Move
Mist
Moonlight
Morning Sun
Mud Sport
Nasty Plot
Natural Gift
Nature Power
Night Shade
Night Slash
Odor Sleuth
Ominous Wind
Outrage
Overheat
Payback
Pay Day
Peck
Perish Song
Petal Dance
Pin Missile
Pound
Power Gem
Power Swap
Power Trick
Power Whip
Present
Protect
Psych Up
Psycho Boost
Psycho Cut
Psyshock
Psystrike
Psywave
Punishment
Pursuit
Quick Attack
Quick Guard
Quiver Dance
Rage
Rage Powder
Rain Dance
Rapid Spin
Razor Leaf
Razor Wind
Recover
Recycle
Reflect
Reflect Type
Refresh
Rest
Retaliate
Return
Revenge
Reversal
Roar
Roar of Time
Rock Blast
Rock Polish
Rock Throw
Rock Wrecker
Role Play
Rollout
Roost
Round
Sacred Sword
Safeguard
Sandstorm
Scratch
Secret Sword
Seed Bomb
Seismic Toss
Selfdestruct
Shadow Claw
Shadow Force
Shadow Punch
Shadow Sneak
Sharpen
Shell Smash
Shift Gear
Shock Wave
Silver Wind
Sketch
Skill Swap
Skull Bash
Sky Uppercut
Slack Off
Slam
Slash
Sleep Talk
Snatch
Snore
Softboiled
SolarBeam
SonicBoom
Spacial Rend
Spike Cannon
Spikes
Spite
Spit Up
Splash
Stealth Rock
Steel Wing
Stockpile
Stone Edge
Stored Power
Storm Throw
Strength
Submission
Substitute
Sucker Punch
Sunny Day
Super Fang
Superpower
Surf
Swallow
Swift
Swords Dance
Synchronoise
Synthesis
Tackle
Tail Glow
Tail Slap
Tailwind
Take Down
Taunt
Techno Blast
Teleport
Thrash
Torment
Toxic Spikes
Trick Room
Triple Kick
Trump Card
Uproar
U-turn
Vacuum Wave
V-create
Venoshock
ViceGrip
Vine Whip
Vital Throw
Volt Switch
Water Gun
Water Pledge
Water Sport
Water Spout
Weather Ball
Whirlwind
Wide Guard
Wild Charge
Wing Attack
Wish
Withdraw
Wonder Room
Wood Hammer
Work Up
Wring Out
X-Scissor


Acid
Acid Spray
Air Slash
Astonish
Aurora Beam
Bind
Bite
Blaze Kick
Blizzard
Blue Flare
Body Slam
Bolt Strike
Bone Club
Bounce
Bubble
BubbleBeam
Bug Bite
Bug Buzz
Bulldoze
Chatter
Circle Throw
Clamp
Clear Smog
Confusion
Constrict
Covet
Cross Poison
Crunch
Crush Claw
Dark Pulse
Defog
Discharge
Dizzy Punch
DragonBreath
Dragon Rush
Dragon Tail
DynamicPunch
Earth Power
Electroweb
Ember
Energy Ball
Extrasensory
Fake Out
Fire Blast
Fire Fang
Fire Punch
Fire Spin
Fissure
Flamethrower
Flame Wheel
Flare Blitz
Flash Cannon
Fling
Focus Blast
Force Palm
Freeze Shock
Glaciate
Guillotine
Gunk Shot
Headbutt
Heart Stamp
Heat Wave
Horn Drill
Hurricane
Hyper Fang
Ice Beam
Ice Burn
Ice Fang
Ice Punch
Icicle Crash
Icy Wind
Incinerate
Inferno
Iron Head
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Lava Plume
Leaf Tornado
Lick
Low Sweep
Luster Purge
Magma Storm
Memento
Mirror Shot
Mist Ball
Mud Bomb
Muddy Water
Mud Shot
Mud-Slap
Needle Arm
Night Daze
Octazooka
Pluck
Poison Fang
Poison Jab
Poison Sting
Poison Tail
Powder Snow
Psybeam
Psychic
Razor Shell
Relic Song
Rock Climb
Rock Slide
Rock Smash
Rock Tomb
Rolling Kick
Sacred Fire
Sand Tomb
Scald
Searing Shot
Secret Power
Seed Flare
Shadow Ball
Sheer Cold
Signal Beam
Sky Attack
Sludge
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Smack Down
SmellingSalt
Smog
Snarl
Spark
Steamroller
Stomp
Struggle Bug
Thief
Thunder
Thunderbolt
Thunder Fang
ThunderPunch
ThunderShock
Tri Attack
Twineedle
Twister
Volt Tackle
Wake-Up Slap
Waterfall
Water Pulse
Whirlpool
Wrap
Zap Cannon
Zen Headbutt


Shout out to Ayeeelin for helping me double check these lists.
 
I need some help confirming something rather unfortunate.

So I had a Wi-Fi battle that ended up pitting Jirachi against Scrafty.

Jirachi launches a Doom Desire after 1 Calm Mind.
Three turns later, Jirachi launches a second Doom Desire.
In those intervening three turns, Jirachi got off 1 additional CM, and Scrafty got up 3 Bulk Ups (which shouldn't matter).

I saved the battle, played back the game using an emulator, and managed to get a somewhat exact reading on how much each Doom Desire did.

The first did approximately 63%. The second did approximately 31%.

Using this damage calculator, I have managed to verify three things:

  • +1 DD against Max HP, Max (S)Def Scrafty does 55-65% (good)
  • +2 DD against Max HP, Max (S)Def Scrafty with no defensive boosts does 74-88% (a LONG WAY off from 31%)
  • +2 DD against Max HP, Max (S)Def Scrafty with the defense stat at +3 does... 29-35%

So I'm left with one of two possibilities: either Bulk Up raises SDef as well as Def, or Doom Desire hits on the physical side.

I can post an excerpt of the battle if that would help.

[Edit: Update. I just heard back from my opponent. He says he was running Careful, 252 HP, 248 SpD. If Doom Desire hits on the physical side, that means:

  • +1 DD against non-boosted Scrafty does 84-99%
  • +1 DD against +3 Scrafty does 34-40%
  • +2 DD against +3 Scrafty does 45-53%

What this seems to indicate is that Bulk Up is raising SpD, but I find that HIGHLY unlikely, as I'm sure people would have noticed it long before now. So I'm left with... what? Glitch in the game?]

[Edit 2: I have an answer. It is EXTREMELY strange.

First off, I screwed up the calcs (mis-entered the SpA as 252 rather than 4). So here are some calcs, based on the set my opponent gave me:

  • +1 DD against Scrafty does 44-52%
  • +2 DD against Scrafty does 59-70%
  • +0 DD against Scrafty does... 29-35%

This makes perfect sense if you realize the following: Doom Desire not only uses the current stats of the current defending pokemon when it hits... it uses the current stats of the current offensive pokemon as well. Because... here's the thing I failed to mention: Jirachi was KOed immediately before that second DD hit. So, I guess, to the game, a KOed pokemon is considered to be at +0. I've verified in some tests on my end (against a Slowking) that this theory is consistent--what matters is the stats ON BOTH SIDES at the time the attack hits, not the stats at the time the attack is launched, but I'm going to need to check whether Doom Desires can be *passed* (as in, use DD on Jirachi, switch to a poke with INSANE SpA... what will the game use to calculate the damage?).]

[Edit 3: Results of DD-passing are in, and they're rather disappointing. Doom Desire uses Jirachi's current SpA to calculate damage. So if Jirachi is out and at +6, that's awesome. But if you called Jirachi back or if Jirachi was KOed, Jirachi is considered to be at +0. Sigh. I think it's time to replace DD with Flash Cannon...]
 

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