B&W Research Thread

So you're saying that Rough Skin has been nerfed back down to doing 1/16 against a contact move? It was 1/8 in 4th gen.
Er, I will double check this actually. I was mostly trying to report that you received damage per hit instead of once for the entire move. IIRC it was doing around 1/16, but my memory could be failing me. I'll report back by the end of the day.
 
I hate to be a pain, but seeing people are starting to work on rotation battles, I desperately want to know if abilities like Minus, Plus, and Victory Star work in Rotation Battles....I want to start working on a competitive team for rotation battles and if these abilities work, it could make a really big impact on my team....
 
I hate to be a pain, but seeing people are starting to work on rotation battles, I desperately want to know if abilities like Minus, Plus, and Victory Star work in Rotation Battles....I want to start working on a competitive team for rotation battles and if these abilities work, it could make a really big impact on my team....
No. No abilities whatsoever work from the back row.
 
Hence why it's listed as Tentative - we still don't know that flat percentage. I guess we could say "it's lower than a +2 accuracy boost".
Well a good way to test to see if it is indeed a +1 Boost would be to use Will-O-Wisp over and over. If that never misses, try to see if Focus Blast ever does to see if it's higher than one stage. If it does miss, try things like Hydro Pump (does Victini get an 80 Accuracy move without hacking?) and see if it misses. From that you should be able to figure out what the boost is or atleast get a better idea. These are the accuracies of moves that will just barely always hit with a certain boost.

x1.1: 91 (Compound-eyes boosted Thunder)
x1.2: 84 (Zoom Lens boosted Focus Blast)
x1.3: 77 (Wide Lens boosted Focus Blast)
x1.4: 72 (Wide Lens boosted move with 65 Accuracy should work or Zoom Lens with 55 Accuracy should work)
x1.5: 67 (Wide Lens Hypnosis should work)
x1.6: 63 (Can't find a good one, 65 Accuracy moves or 50 with Compound-eyes will never miss Edit: Zoom Lens boosted Focus Blast while at -1 Accuracy will have 63 Accuracy)
x1.7: 59 (Hypnosis wouldn't have missed so this was proven false)

1 stage: 75 (Will-O-Wisp)
2 stages: 60 (Hypnosis) (already tested and proven false)
 

chimpact

fire nation
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Does Sandstorm still raise Rock's spdef? I didnt put it in the simple question thread, since it's not really simple question.
 
Well a good way to test to see if it is indeed a +1 Boost would be to use Will-O-Wisp over and over. If that never misses, try to see if Focus Blast ever does to see if it's higher than one stage. If it does miss, try things like Hydro Pump (does Victini get an 80 Accuracy move without hacking?) and see if it misses. From that you should be able to figure out what the boost is or atleast get a better idea. These are the accuracies of moves that will just barely always hit with a certain boost.

x1.1: 91 (Compound-eyes boosted Thunder)
x1.2: 84 (Zoom Lens boosted Focus Blast)
x1.3: 77 (Wide Lens boosted Focus Blast)
x1.4: 72 (Wide Lens boosted move with 65 Accuracy should work or Zoom Lens with 55 Accuracy should work)
x1.5: 67 (Wide Lens Hypnosis should work)
x1.6: 63 (Can't find a good one, 65 Accuracy moves or 50 with Compound-eyes will never miss Edit: Zoom Lens boosted Focus Blast while at -1 Accuracy will have 63 Accuracy)
x1.7: 59 (Hypnosis wouldn't have missed so this was proven false)

1 stage: 75 (Will-O-Wisp)
2 stages: 60 (Hypnosis) (already tested and proven false)
Wish you had posted that earlier as i just tested this in a different way.

Cresselia(having victory star) in a double battle using Zap Cannon against blissey 100 times hit 58 times. in other words an 58% hit rate.
That also means that it's most likely not a 1 stage boost because that would result a 66.5% hit rate

@Omegadonut I already tested Dustproof, Make Friends and Slip Through so they can be removed from the OP, unless there is something about them that still needs research
 
Can Griseous Orb be Tricked onto Giratina now, to change its form in the middle of battle?
Tried to trick a Griseous Orb on Giratina with Rankurusu and it failed.

Would have been pretty neat if it did.
 
Question about Abilities:

Yooterii has two abilities, Vital Spirit & Pickup, upon evolution they become Intimidate & Sand Throw. Does the ability change randomly? Or is it linked to the previous one? (Vital Spirit > Intimidate, Pickup > Sand Throw)

Sorry if this isn't the place for it.
 
Question about Abilities:

Yooterii has two abilities, Vital Spirit & Pickup, upon evolution they become Intimidate & Sand Throw. Does the ability change randomly? Or is it linked to the previous one? (Vital Spirit > Intimidate, Pickup > Sand Throw)

Sorry if this isn't the place for it.
Abilities are always linked by evolution. For example, Trace Porygon2 will always evolve into Adaptability Porygon-Z.

I can't confirm, however, which ability Yorterri will get after evolution.
 
Cresselia(having victory star) in a double battle using Zap Cannon against blissey 100 times hit 58 times. in other words an 58% hit rate.
That also means that it's most likely not a 1 stage boost because that would result a 66.5% hit rate
That's only true for an infinite number of attempts. 100 attempts is not enough to conclusively say that that's an exact percentage.
 

ΩDonut

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I know being on the internet it is easy to forget that there is a person on the other side and that being a dick to make someone look and feel stupid is funny.

*snip*
I'm not required to be nice to rule-breakers. As Synre stated, this is not a thread where you "make the researchers answer simple questions that I could find the answers to somewhere else", "somewhere else" being in this case the very first post of this thread.

If someone reported successfully breeding DW abilities, and they don't specifically mention needing an Everstone to get it to work, then you should not assume there might have been an Everstone involved. Or any other item.

That's only true for an infinite number of attempts. 100 attempts is not enough to conclusively say that that's an exact percentage.
Yeah... I can't remember how to calculate the p-value, but I'm pretty certain a move with 66% accuracy has pretty good odds of randomly hitting 58 times out of 100.

If you have Wide Lens and Focus Blast on hand, that should be the next test. If it's actually 1.3x (implying 66% accuracy with Zap Cannon), then it will never miss. If not, it's probably 1.2x.
 
the next step would be a test with a lighter bomber to prove my theory wrong that it´s just a reverse LK/GK, for ex. by using
- hariyama (~254kg) to heavy bomber mesprit, mewtwo and torterra
- emboar (150kg) to heavy bomber mesprit, mewtwo and torterra

hit them just a few times and
a) if they do similar damage (to snorlax) -> reverse GK/LK
b) if they do different damage -> we´ll have to figure out the formula

- also please try to hit something with around 100kg (between m2 and gon, for example venusaur with 100kg)
- and snorlax vs snorlax as well, to see whether you get base power 20
- for fun, try to heavy bomber a heavier foe :)
Thanks for those calculations, i wouldn't be able to it myself.

I've updated the list of results with those you requested

Snorlax(460kg) with 256 attack using Heavy bomber on all these pokemon having exact 216 def

Giratina-O(750kg): 38-36-36-35-39-38-41-37-39-41 damage
Snorlax(460kg): 36-34-37-38-35-38-35-41-39-38 damage
Torterra(352kg): 40-38-36-36-40 damage
Dragonite(210kg): 60-59-54-53-54 damage
Mewtwo(122kg): 81-75-73-76-77 damage
Venusaur(100kg): 91-96-85-101-87-96-88-89-101-96 damage
Flygon(82kg): 105-102-106-109-108-112-106-113-110-104 damage
Togekiss(38kg): 107-104-114-112-106-107-112-110-102-111-102 damage
Altaria(20kg): 102-104-111-110-106-121-107-108-112-118 damage
Mew(4kg): 114-111-104-113-108 damage
Mesprit(0.3kg):115-112-116-114-117-107-108-119-121-108 damage

Emboar(150kg) with 256 attack using Heavy bomber on all these pokemon having exact 216 def

Torterra(352kg): 35-38-37-36-38-38-35-36-38-34 damage
Mewtwo(122kg): 35-36-36-41-39-35-38-38-37-38 damage
Mesprit(0.3kg): 111-118-117-112-106-106-114-116-112-108 damage

Hariyama(253.8kg) with 256 attack using Heavy bomber on all these pokemon having exact 216 def

Torterra(352kg): 38-37-36-37-34-37-39-34-38-38 damage
Mewtwo(122kg): 58-54-54-58-57-56-59-52-57-56 damage
Mesprit(0.4kg): 119-116-117-107-108-111-114-107-116-117 damage

Yeah... I can't remember how to calculate the p-value, but I'm pretty certain a move with 66% accuracy has pretty good odds of randomly hitting 58 times out of 100.

If you have Wide Lens and Focus Blast on hand, that should be the next test. If it's actually 1.3x (implying 66% accuracy with Zap Cannon), then it will never miss. If not, it's probably 1.2x
Fuck....

I'll try this tomorrow
 
Yeah... I can't remember how to calculate the p-value, but I'm pretty certain a move with 66% accuracy has pretty good odds of randomly hitting 58 times out of 100.

If you have Wide Lens and Focus Blast on hand, that should be the next test. If it's actually 1.3x (implying 66% accuracy with Zap Cannon), then it will never miss. If not, it's probably 1.2x.
if a move hits 2/3 of the time the probability that it will hit exactly 58 out of 100 times is C(100,58)(2/3)^58(1/3)^42=1.58%

for comparison the probability of exactly 58 hits would be 2.82% if the accuracy was 65%, 7.42% if it was 60% and 8.06% if it was 58% accurate.
 
Dunno if this belongs here but some confirmation about Sturdy.

I was using my Axeface (pure Dragon) with +4 ATK on the Elite Four's Fighting member.
I used Dragon Claw on the blue guy and his Sturdy kicked in. Full Restore and Sturdy activated again. Full Restore and Sturdy activated AGAIN.

So it appears that Sturdy works indefinitely as long as you can recover the Pokemon's HP to a full bar.
 

Bologo

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Hey, I was wondering if anyone could test if TM moves from Gen. 4 could still be passed over through breeding like any kind of TM move does.

Ie. If I have a female Poison Heal (Dream World) Gliscor, and I breed it with a Male Scyther that learned Roost in Gen. 4 through TM, and was transferred over to BW, will Roost still pass on to Gligar like it would in Gen. 4 due to breeding a move registered as learned by TM? Or is it no longer registered as having learned it by TM, and as a result, won't pass on the move?
 
Hey, I was wondering if anyone could test if TM moves from Gen. 4 could still be passed over through breeding like any kind of TM move does.

Ie. If I have a female Poison Heal (Dream World) Gliscor, and I breed it with a Male Scyther that learned Roost in Gen. 4 through TM, and was transferred over to BW, will Roost still pass on to Gligar like it would in Gen. 4 due to breeding a move registered as learned by TM? Or is it no longer registered as having learned it by TM, and as a result, won't pass on the move?
I haven't tested it, but honestly, it is very, very unlikely because it just makes no sense from a programming standpoint. The game has no idea how your Pokémon learned the moves it has; when figuring out what moves a baby should have, it just checks if the father's moves are TMs, not whether the father learned them from TMs. This sort of thing would only be possible if the game specifically kept an internal list of what moves were TMs in the fourth generation just to let you breed those moves onto the Pokémon, and if they're doing that they might as well just add the moves in question as ordinary egg moves and be done with it.

You can test it if you want, but it should be pretty safe to assume no.
 
Dunno if this belongs here but some confirmation about Sturdy.

I was using my Axeface (pure Dragon) with +4 ATK on the Elite Four's Fighting member.
I used Dragon Claw on the blue guy and his Sturdy kicked in. Full Restore and Sturdy activated again. Full Restore and Sturdy activated AGAIN.

So it appears that Sturdy works indefinitely as long as you can recover the Pokemon's HP to a full bar.
That was already confirmed, but yeah it's a pretty useful ability now.
 
Okay, I re-tested against Rough Skin, and it indeed does 1/8 HP damage per contact, not 1/16th.

I also did more research on multi-hit moves, and it turns out that each hit will activate whatever reactive ability it's facing multiple times. For example, against Breakable Armor, if I hit it 4 times with Arm Thrust, the opposing Pokemon would sit at +4 Spe, -4 Def -- the ability activates each time the Pokemon is hit. From all my tests with multi-hit moves, I think we can draw the conclusion that in this gen, each hit is treated as separate attacks which are contingent on the previous hits successfully making contact. Pretty neat.
 

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