Introduction
Hello, this'll actually be my first RMT for this metagame despite being deeply rooted into both the UU and RMT communities. Throughout this generation of UU, we as a playerbase have seen webs come and go as a large presence in the metagame a few times. For a while webs was weirdly consistent and solid all around with CBU using it obscenely frequently to success, for example. Earlier in the gen I honestly had a hard time clicking with this tier and even with webs specifically I wasn't feelin the hype like everyone else was. I don't feel the same now, even though webs is at a lower point now in the metagame in comparison to earlier in the gen where boots ribombee was everywhere and brazilians ran the ladder, this is a webs I feel happy with.
Novel About Webs, Building, and Building Webs
Over the years it wasn't my intention to carve my niche as the guy that just webbed all the time, I just did whatever I found fun which for a while was just random shedinja and webs teams. Obviously as you grow and mature as a player and builder you usually leave these gimmicks behind and embrace more meta staples. This certainly slowly happened with me during SM but I still generally stuck with webs when I wanted to just have a good time laddering, which led to the creation of this RMT.
Hard to say what specifically intrigues me about webs, but I've always liked how unique they feel as an archetype. Other HO archetypes like spikes or screens feel way more neutral by nature, I mean I bet there's a lot of spikes/screens HOs for metas that look literally identical but you just sub out the spiker for the screener or vise versa, spikes and screens both are ultimately trying to do the same thing just in different ways. Spikes helps set up breakers and win conditions by making their attack potency more obnoxious to deal with via chip damage, ultimately making potential end games for cleaners much more possible. Screens tries to setup breakers and win conditions by basically attempting to hand setup opportunities to them on a platter. This obviously applies to webs as well, webs try to setup breakers and win conditions by crippling the opponent's speed tier, thus giving more plentiful and more potent opportunities to break.
What feels unique about webs in comparison to other HO archetypes to me though is the fact that I think the hazard helps you embrace the more off-brand picks in the meta. Speed tiers can very frequently have a huge impact on a pokemon's viability, and webs makes some of the more oddball speed tier mons feel a lot better in practice. Thundy-T vs. Thundy for example, in a tier with Terrakion; most people like thundy more but on webs not only does Thundy-T provide a shitty zera check but it's far more powerful and the speed difference is hardly important anymore. This isn't all super important and I don't think it is a huge piece of webs's identity as an archetype but to me personally I think the unique feeling of it's niche has always made me a lot more motivated to push the archetype to it's limits in the builder and in practice.
Enough about my feelings though, I wanna vent information about webs I've accumulated throughout years of excessive pocket monster playing because I can, and so I hope I can give someone of some sort a smile reading me be a nerd, or something. It's strange to believe that I'm making a webs rmt with confidence in a gen where boots is literally the best item by several miles, it's also easy to see why webs isn't at the top of the totem pole like earlier in the gen since two of the big dawgs in the tier are tini and zera (which both have boos the majority of the time). Webs in general as an archetype has pretty much the same obstacles in every tier and their viability tends to lean on how potent/plentiful these obstacles are, and most of the time "obstacles" in this context is gonna apply to the mons in the tier that have an easy time bypassing or maybe even potentially benefitting from webs. In SS UU for example this would apply to Zeraora, Victini, Salamence, Hatterrene, Thundy, Rotom forms, Gyarados, and more. The fact that these obstacles are generally more concrete than other HO archetype's I think puts webs in a weird spot in a lot of tiers where they're either good or completely and utterly unviable, when they're unviable I think they tend to be a lot more fun to build because of how concrete and black and white these threats can be. Finding these niche mons that benefit from webs and webs benefits from in the context of the tier, having ladder success in SM with Goodra webs when serp was in the tier and shit like that.
In reality "shit like that" is gonna get you flamed off the website sometimes because you're entering the territory of headassery and unviability. I can be judgemental and harsh towards people for their builds but that's really just because I have an ego, I think it's good and even admire people for pushing against the mold of the tier to find new things, a lot of the time a tier is shaped as it is for a reason and whatever you find doesn't end up being more than a lil meme but sometimes you find something really special and I don't think how other people feel about it should mean anything to you if you're feeling confident and comfortable with it in practice. I've definitely gone through phases of my career where I heavily embraced Claydol and Forretress headassery and then vise versa where I've used primarily meta shit but honestly I think people should always just use what they want as long as they're comfortable and confident with it. Prepping in conjunction with so many different people over the years has made me realize how different everyone's takes on pokemon tend to be, and that's obviously okay and only furthers the point of what I'm saying. I always tend to prefer just solo prepping myself even if it's for like 5 slots in UUPL or something because I find it more comfortable than working hand in hand with people my ideas don't overlap with, I wanna have full control. This is probably bad and people like Pearl I think are incredible at being helpful while not overly controlling in prep but I am simply too big of a dickhead.
Obviously I also think pushing against the mold of the tier applies to a lot of things not just desperately searching for niches in unmons lmao. Labbing sets/spreads together and just generally following what you know > the norm does a lot for you and potentially the tier, and it's just something I personally value a lot in builders. Realistically there's a balance of the two required, obviously it's better to have general meta knowledge than not... preferably a lil falls under "what you know". This is where I start to ramble about check-box builders though, check-box builders are what I call the people who build too heavily based upon an imaginary check-box that is unique to whatever tier they're building. A lot of tiers overlap in these cases, stuff like steel types, ground types, rockers/speed control obviously, aren't unique to one or two tiers. The imaginary check-box obviously plays a role in building, a decently sized one at that, check-box builders are the people I consider to rely too heavily upon it or think that's what building ultimately is. Over the years of being in countless team chats and being a nerd talking about mons w/ people I've always found it impressive seeing the best players seemingly (at times) have a better grasp on a meta almost instantaneously over somewhat newer users even if they're like diehard mains of whatever tier, it's just because they have better building fundamentals and a better understanding of pokemon in general.
The way I word all of this without question makes me sound like a huge asshole and even if I literally am a huge asshole this isn't on purpose, I'm not trying to just like target groups of people or whatever. What I'm trying to convey is my own personal values and ideologies on what makes someone "good" at building, to me. To end this rambling about the broad topic of building I'm gonna try to summarize and come to a final point so I can get back to webs.
I think the best builders are the ones who can adapt, new tiers, new archetypes, new mons, when you don't entirely know the exact specifics of the check-box list... can you build a good team? Can your fundamentals lead you to success in the builder? Which, if you think about it, really isn't that strict of a criteria. Consistency is everything though in pokemon when you're trying to separate the good from great and great from the best.
Webs tests your fundamentals for sure because it adds a few check-boxes naturally by committing to the archetype in the builder, and it doesn't tell you that shit or something. You gotta figure it out yourself when you get 6-0d by some bird, you gotta understand which groups of threats you can't reliably overwhelm with offensive pressure by nature, and that list grows with webs. If you build webs like a normal HO that just happens to has webs, maybe you'll get lucky and end up with something good but I think this thought process will lead to more failures than successes. Webs teams a lot of the time tend to be over-reliant on webs as a form of speed control bc that's the whole niche of the hazard... but like with everything there has to be a balance. It's sad to say that you can't just spam the most powerful mons ever with meh speed tiers like Darmanitan and call it a day bc "webs xd". you will naturally get run over by a common webs threat in whatever respective tier. The way you balance out your over-reliance on hazards for speed control is having breakers that abuse webs with priority, which is pretty fuckin easy a lot of the time. Priority is priority, it's gonna pressure things no matter how fast most of the time, there's nothing Mega Aerodactyl can do to stop Scizor from outpacing with Bullet Punch, for example... and something like Mega Aerodactyl is only gonna get so many free turns vs HO that can rkill it.
Okay I should probably start actually writing the RMT now.
Hard to say what specifically intrigues me about webs, but I've always liked how unique they feel as an archetype. Other HO archetypes like spikes or screens feel way more neutral by nature, I mean I bet there's a lot of spikes/screens HOs for metas that look literally identical but you just sub out the spiker for the screener or vise versa, spikes and screens both are ultimately trying to do the same thing just in different ways. Spikes helps set up breakers and win conditions by making their attack potency more obnoxious to deal with via chip damage, ultimately making potential end games for cleaners much more possible. Screens tries to setup breakers and win conditions by basically attempting to hand setup opportunities to them on a platter. This obviously applies to webs as well, webs try to setup breakers and win conditions by crippling the opponent's speed tier, thus giving more plentiful and more potent opportunities to break.
What feels unique about webs in comparison to other HO archetypes to me though is the fact that I think the hazard helps you embrace the more off-brand picks in the meta. Speed tiers can very frequently have a huge impact on a pokemon's viability, and webs makes some of the more oddball speed tier mons feel a lot better in practice. Thundy-T vs. Thundy for example, in a tier with Terrakion; most people like thundy more but on webs not only does Thundy-T provide a shitty zera check but it's far more powerful and the speed difference is hardly important anymore. This isn't all super important and I don't think it is a huge piece of webs's identity as an archetype but to me personally I think the unique feeling of it's niche has always made me a lot more motivated to push the archetype to it's limits in the builder and in practice.
Enough about my feelings though, I wanna vent information about webs I've accumulated throughout years of excessive pocket monster playing because I can, and so I hope I can give someone of some sort a smile reading me be a nerd, or something. It's strange to believe that I'm making a webs rmt with confidence in a gen where boots is literally the best item by several miles, it's also easy to see why webs isn't at the top of the totem pole like earlier in the gen since two of the big dawgs in the tier are tini and zera (which both have boos the majority of the time). Webs in general as an archetype has pretty much the same obstacles in every tier and their viability tends to lean on how potent/plentiful these obstacles are, and most of the time "obstacles" in this context is gonna apply to the mons in the tier that have an easy time bypassing or maybe even potentially benefitting from webs. In SS UU for example this would apply to Zeraora, Victini, Salamence, Hatterrene, Thundy, Rotom forms, Gyarados, and more. The fact that these obstacles are generally more concrete than other HO archetype's I think puts webs in a weird spot in a lot of tiers where they're either good or completely and utterly unviable, when they're unviable I think they tend to be a lot more fun to build because of how concrete and black and white these threats can be. Finding these niche mons that benefit from webs and webs benefits from in the context of the tier, having ladder success in SM with Goodra webs when serp was in the tier and shit like that.
In reality "shit like that" is gonna get you flamed off the website sometimes because you're entering the territory of headassery and unviability. I can be judgemental and harsh towards people for their builds but that's really just because I have an ego, I think it's good and even admire people for pushing against the mold of the tier to find new things, a lot of the time a tier is shaped as it is for a reason and whatever you find doesn't end up being more than a lil meme but sometimes you find something really special and I don't think how other people feel about it should mean anything to you if you're feeling confident and comfortable with it in practice. I've definitely gone through phases of my career where I heavily embraced Claydol and Forretress headassery and then vise versa where I've used primarily meta shit but honestly I think people should always just use what they want as long as they're comfortable and confident with it. Prepping in conjunction with so many different people over the years has made me realize how different everyone's takes on pokemon tend to be, and that's obviously okay and only furthers the point of what I'm saying. I always tend to prefer just solo prepping myself even if it's for like 5 slots in UUPL or something because I find it more comfortable than working hand in hand with people my ideas don't overlap with, I wanna have full control. This is probably bad and people like Pearl I think are incredible at being helpful while not overly controlling in prep but I am simply too big of a dickhead.
Obviously I also think pushing against the mold of the tier applies to a lot of things not just desperately searching for niches in unmons lmao. Labbing sets/spreads together and just generally following what you know > the norm does a lot for you and potentially the tier, and it's just something I personally value a lot in builders. Realistically there's a balance of the two required, obviously it's better to have general meta knowledge than not... preferably a lil falls under "what you know". This is where I start to ramble about check-box builders though, check-box builders are what I call the people who build too heavily based upon an imaginary check-box that is unique to whatever tier they're building. A lot of tiers overlap in these cases, stuff like steel types, ground types, rockers/speed control obviously, aren't unique to one or two tiers. The imaginary check-box obviously plays a role in building, a decently sized one at that, check-box builders are the people I consider to rely too heavily upon it or think that's what building ultimately is. Over the years of being in countless team chats and being a nerd talking about mons w/ people I've always found it impressive seeing the best players seemingly (at times) have a better grasp on a meta almost instantaneously over somewhat newer users even if they're like diehard mains of whatever tier, it's just because they have better building fundamentals and a better understanding of pokemon in general.
The way I word all of this without question makes me sound like a huge asshole and even if I literally am a huge asshole this isn't on purpose, I'm not trying to just like target groups of people or whatever. What I'm trying to convey is my own personal values and ideologies on what makes someone "good" at building, to me. To end this rambling about the broad topic of building I'm gonna try to summarize and come to a final point so I can get back to webs.
I think the best builders are the ones who can adapt, new tiers, new archetypes, new mons, when you don't entirely know the exact specifics of the check-box list... can you build a good team? Can your fundamentals lead you to success in the builder? Which, if you think about it, really isn't that strict of a criteria. Consistency is everything though in pokemon when you're trying to separate the good from great and great from the best.
Webs tests your fundamentals for sure because it adds a few check-boxes naturally by committing to the archetype in the builder, and it doesn't tell you that shit or something. You gotta figure it out yourself when you get 6-0d by some bird, you gotta understand which groups of threats you can't reliably overwhelm with offensive pressure by nature, and that list grows with webs. If you build webs like a normal HO that just happens to has webs, maybe you'll get lucky and end up with something good but I think this thought process will lead to more failures than successes. Webs teams a lot of the time tend to be over-reliant on webs as a form of speed control bc that's the whole niche of the hazard... but like with everything there has to be a balance. It's sad to say that you can't just spam the most powerful mons ever with meh speed tiers like Darmanitan and call it a day bc "webs xd". you will naturally get run over by a common webs threat in whatever respective tier. The way you balance out your over-reliance on hazards for speed control is having breakers that abuse webs with priority, which is pretty fuckin easy a lot of the time. Priority is priority, it's gonna pressure things no matter how fast most of the time, there's nothing Mega Aerodactyl can do to stop Scizor from outpacing with Bullet Punch, for example... and something like Mega Aerodactyl is only gonna get so many free turns vs HO that can rkill it.
Okay I should probably start actually writing the RMT now.
Teambuilding Process
So, this team actually somewhat stemmed from an older webs team from around the time UU snake started, I will include a replay or two of that team at the bottom.
Fitting a rocker and a webber in two separate slots is honestly probably ideal so you don't have to use smth like Shuckle but it also feels unfortunate in the builder and in practice, a lot of the time you're gonna find yourself feeling like rocks are beneficial but if you get the turn right and click the right attacking move it'd be a little more beneficial and it's like eh. Either way I ended up going with Shuckle after some thought, Bisharp at a glance felt pretty anti-meta, I mean I've heard some Bisharp slander recently and I don't really understand it, Bisharp's benefits for itself and the team on webs are obvious with it's unique typing, high dmg output, and access to Defiant to act as Defog fodder.
I remember having a discussion with roamer about bd azu on webs and how potentially obnoxious it'd be like quite a while back. I felt like Bisharp inevitably getting rkilled by fighting types could give Azumarill solid opportunities setup, I also think it can act as an early breaker to heavily heavily chip some faster threats like Salamence and put one or two things in a body bag for free which has obvious merits on a team filled with breakers and sweepers.
Victini with webs up is extremely potent since it stops big bad Terrakion from being a soft check to any degree as well as a reliable rkiller, which is a big deal. It can also blanket pivot into a lot of things at least once, things like Amoonguss, Celesteela, Skarmory, etc. can be really annoying for offenses if you don't have a super direct way of dealing with them but are generally overwhelmed by aggressive play. I think this thing is especially good at setting Bisharp and Azumarill up for success, it chips dragons extremely well and abuses oncoming Slowking for setup opportunities. If you're looking for something more traditional for webs and more oomph you can go a chandy route for sure and this would still be neato I think.
Thundy-T feels disgusting on webs, the electric immunity is vital so Zeraora doesn't just straight up massacre you, it obviously isn't a hard answer to any extent but this + prio makes Zeraora not feel like an auto loss to any degree which is a big deal since the nature of HO is usually just getting cyberfucked by smth with that speed tier and coverage + boots. This thing's damage output is honestly stupid and it's speed tier feels like it was made with webs in mind in the context of this tier. Outpacing Victini is fuckin huge.
Scizor is the second steel type and feels pretty great within the context of the rest of the team. It benefits greatly from Bisharp + Azumarill breaking down it's checks for it and being able to reliably rkill Terrakion is huge here. More priority the better, the steel typing is pretty good to help the zam/mew mu as well as random fairy types and all that. Scizor's typing by nature usually means it can stomach at least one hit from non fire type moves if it needs to, obviously depends.
In Depth
Shuckle @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Infestation
- Sticky Web
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Infestation
- Sticky Web
This set generally pretty reliably gets both hazards up and honestly it's pretty funny how often I've been able to keep Shuckle alive to continue being annoying with Custap + Encore/etc. later into the game. Custap + Sturdy is effective in getting two hazards up for obvious reasons, infestation stops any doubles on Encore turns which is really nice but honestly you could go a bunch of routes with Shuckle sets I think.
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
Pretty self explanatory here as well, Adamant nature is nice regardless of webs but webs lets you fully commit to it without missing out on shit like Adamant Mamoswine and all that jazz. Defiant is really cool for webs teams for obvious reasons, Defog deterrent, STAB Knock Off + SD can muscle through a ton of fat pokemon like Celesteela and Amoonguss, or at the bare minimum is incredible at chipping targets for other options to win in the end or at the bare minimum have more breaking potential. Dark is generally good neutral coverage and is gonna hit threats to webs like Zeraora and Victini the hardest as well out of the prio on the team.
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
Very standard BD Azu set here, obviously the 4 Hp is necessary for Belly Drum. What I love about this thing is how much easier it is to embrace it as a breaker on webs > autowin or bust mon. Things like Bulu end up just giving it more Hp by coming in instead of being able to rkill, if you get a setup opportunity you can usually claim 1-2 things minimum and it's surrounded by things that specifically benefit. More priority = cool.
Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blue Flare
- Psychic
- U-turn
- Energy Ball
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blue Flare
- Psychic
- U-turn
- Energy Ball
Not the most ridiculously potent victini set in terms of raw damage output but certainly the most consistent I believe. V-Create leads to getting forced out too often for my taste on something like HO so I went with this set which has good trading potential and isn't annoyed by Intimidate. This thing's natural bulk is really nice basically letting it make potentially losing trades w stuff like Zeraora and Scarf Krookodile confidently knowing it'll lead to another teammate's benefit. Generally good coverage would only be better with stronger Psychic STAB to reliably 2HKO offensive Salamences :(. Being the team's sole pivot move isn't bad either even though HO you generally sack shit for momentum due to the nature of it, just gotta know when to click it but it's nice here.
Thundurus-Therian @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
Soft Zeraora check and extremely potent cleaner with webs up, as I mentioned before it feels like this thing was made for webs in SS UU, it's speed tier being between Terrakion and Victini carves the perfect niche for it onto this archetype, as well as the ground + elec immunity being extremely huge positives. Coverage is very solid pretty much hitting everything except sometimes when you gotta click unboosted Psychic it is indeed unfortunate, also missing Focus Blast is truly a shame ofc.
Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack
- Bug Bite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack
- Bug Bite
This last slot on Scizor did used to be Knock Off but I recently changed it because I went up against some super fat shit and I found myself wishing I had Bug Bite, but once I put more thought into it I felt a lot better about the change. On paper this should check those fucking moronic bitch face Mews that're running around, and it also benefits a lot more from the rest of the team in comparison to having Knock Off instead. You're walled by Steel Types but you have Victini so it doesn't matter nearly as much as it would on other HOs that're slightly more balls to the wall, you have an option to switch out w/o just committing to doing as much damage as you can and by forcing the steel in to take hazards/whatever move you click you're already helping Bisharp/whatever else. Rotom-H is a bitch but just outplay as the kids say. All the setup + Knock Off overlap is also just not v good in practice.
Threatlist
The rotom forms make me wanna cry myself to sleep, last gen you could be like "JuSt OveRWhElM oVeN wItH rOckS" but no fuckin pussy ass boots exist now so HAHA. Counterplay to both of these is just playing as aggressive as possible, don't let them sit on you they're not fat and pink. Not even close to an end of the world mu just certainly kinda annoying. Victini pretty successfully chips both of these things, best case scenario is muscling through with Thundy-T but the real annoying part is stopping them from fogging.
I've been able to deal with this thing pretty consistently but by the nature of the mon it's gonna have a not bad matchup with boots for sure, generally Thundy can avoid being 2HKOd and trade with it or something can win the game before it can win the game, worst case scenario you end up trading a large portion of Victini's HP for chip in return which isn't too bad. But ye def annoying.
Again not the end of the world but certainly annoying, I don't have the best speed tiers to deal with this. Best way to play vs this is just abusing it with Azumarill and Bisharp when they're full HP and potentially getting a wincon going before everything is in mence range, don't allow mence to be healthy, overwhelming it honestly is more than doable with setup and a bunch of mons it doesn't hard into very easily... just is certainly annoying due to speed tier + immunity to webs + access to recovery.
Your out vs this thing would be winning before it wins vs you, playing aggressively and trying your best to put it into priority range is key because it can otherwise run through pretty easily.
Generally you can overwhelm this with your own bisharp + Azumarill but it can be really sketchy if the opponent plays it well since it's not like we have the best dark resists since they can't reliably rkill Bisharp from full. Like I said doable but is probably the most blatantly obnoxious mon in the sense of "oh shit i have to sack something rfn" on this list.
You can break through hatterene easily enough for sure, just don't lead Shuckle or lead it with the intention of doubling next turn or some shit ig, try to play around the fact that the opp wants to keep hatterene or kill it if he doesn't value it as much.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1285030920-hyldxs3tb2rdd43emmy8tk6t82d7m1opw UU Masters R3 vs false
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1285024550-xnhfmceyacp2y0nvzmydgtg6j8u67ahpw UU Masters R3 vs false
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1286300226-rfx1wo3sugz0lvrhc8b4naebuqs5kgrpw ladder game w/ horrendous mu
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1290163158-b20a0kx5e0g42d8m23yw1zjk05q84zqpw UU Masters R5 vs gorex w/ edits
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8uu-529856 previous version of team UU Snake W1
amanemisaToday at 1:20 AM
Your team is fun
=-)
Shoutouts
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paste
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