BH Balanced Hackmons Central Resources

The problem with Deo-A is it faces heavy competition from MMY, MMX, and UNecro. Not only are their bulk much higher, but they hit harder and/or have a secondary stab to help breaking. The speed tier doesn't matter too much, as the only notable mons being Sceptile, +1 Hoopa-U, MMY, MGar, MMX. And UNecro is bad anyways so the only benefit of Deo-A over MMX is outspeeding MGar and MMY, which is a pretty minor benefit compared to much higher bulk and damage output as well as STAB to beat general steels.
Pheromosa has low bulk as well and requires team support. While sporting a dual STAB, it like Deoxys-A, shares a Type with MMX, and only has Speed as the advantage, while having much less offensive presence... It is C rank, with only 1 Base Speed higher than Deoxys-A. I feel that since Deoxys-A has 43 higher Attack and Special Attack, it should be ranked higher, due to the current placement of Pheromosa. Maybe C+ at lowest. Remember, many people use slow pivots, so why is Deoxys-A not good enough to be the Pokémon you pivot into?
I would like to point out, as I do in any Deo-A discussion, that the Deo in question's bulk is so terrible that is cleanly OHKOed by Caterpie.

252+ Atk Caterpie Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Deoxys-Attack: 324-384 (106.5 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(And if anyone wants to play the "Oh, but its super effective" card, then I'll play the "Caterpie has friggin' base 30 attack!" card.)


Deo-A literally has no safe switch-ins in the meta except against Pokemon lacking both attacks and status moves. Therefore, it can only come in as a lead, after a teammate death, a pivot, or on a prediction. Most VR Pokemon can at least get away with no support on occasion, but Deo-A finds support mandatory in every scenario where it is not leading, just to get in. Even if that "support" is the teammate knocking itself out. Focus Sash helps, but you absolutely need hazards clear and you're gonna struggle to find OHKOs without any boosts.

IMO, except in metas where Deo-A is overwhelmingly powerful and can run teams with nothing but itself, such as the CFZ meta, it should never be above a C because of the team support it needs. (And C is being generous, IMO.) Especially since its best moves and abilities (Huge Power, Protean, Parental Bond, Psychic Surge, and CFZs) have been steadily culled from the meta over the years regardless of whether it was the primary abuser or not.
Does Hustle or Desolate Land help? I used fair examples of 1HKOing Pokémon.

Anyways here is a set I acknowledged but never formerly proposed as the direct set:
To be honest I am not sure if anyone will agree, but I think of this as a decent option for Audino-Mega, specifically:

Stamina.

The Logic behind this suggestion.
This ability works on this specific Pokémon for the following reasons:

-Immunity to Spectral Thief * (Imposterproof)

-Immunity to Dragon Tail *(Imposterproof)

-Immunity to Core Enforcer *(Imposterproof)

-Slow Baton Passes can underspeed other pivot Parting Shot/U-turns, etc., enables it to not fear Ground Immunity (Volt Switch vs Groudon/Zygarde) or Spiky Shield/Baneful Bunker (U-Turn), and pairs well with both Spectral Thief and Stamina.

-Stamina allows it to use its accumulated boosts to survive Sunsteel Strike.

-Stamina works great against Skill Link or Beat Up (King’s Rock Greninja)

-Audino-Mega is the best Normal/Fairy Type and has just enough Defenses to make it viable.

-Stamina’s boosts can be Baton Pass to boost Power Trip, Stored Power, or make setting up like Geomancy, Quiver Dance, etc. better.

-Stamina can consistently regain +Def whether Hazed or Taunted, and doesn’t waste turns or a moveslot.
Versus Fur Coat:
-Switch into a weak move and accumulate boosts (like U-Turn/Fake-Out)... but don’t switch into a strong, super effective physical attack, let them switch into you.

-Mold Breaker, Photon Geyser, Sunsteel do not bypass accumulated boosts, and that means you can heal up as they don’t KO you.

-In contrast, now Unaware works like Mold Breaker in a sense, but most Unaware users are Defensive.
I typically use Spectral Thief, Dragon Tail, Shore Up and Baton Pass with Leftovers (pairs well with Misty Terrain Giratina). *Dragon Tail handles Normal types that are Immune to Spectral Thief (except itself for Imposterproofing).
Until Now:

Set Name: Brick Wall

Audino-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 0 Spe
IVs: 0 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up
- Baton Pass
- Dragon Tail/Core Enforcer

Explanation in the quote but basically: Imposterproof, combined with a slow pivot move in Baton Pass that pairs well with going second with Spectral Thief and accumulated Stamina boosts. Core Enforcer is okay to stop Poison Heal Slaking/Regigas, however Dragon Tail is preferred.

Audino-Mega is very unique in being able to pull this set off, as a Normal Type not likely to lose its ability (unless Entrainment), is very useful.

It plays differently to Fur Coat, as you will want to accumulate boosts and draw physical set up sweepers in, so you can sponge their hits and steal their boosts, while Fur Coat tends to act as a Check or Counter.

252 Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 170-204 (41.4 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So even after a Knock Off, Audino isn’t 2HKOed by Sunsteel Strike.
 
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OM! Desoland and Hustle give damage boosts, but leave it priority vulnerable and do nothing to address its most glaring issues in lack of bulk, bad STAB typing, (Ytwo shares this problem too, but just has rather well distributed stats), and reliance on Focus Sash to stay in on anything it can't OHKO. Anything can be brought in on a slow pivot, but absolutely demanding it come in on one is a pretty big drawback.

I don't really use Phera myself, but I imagine it gets away with its ranking due to its typing. It's faster than the Psychics in the tier, so Bug STAB and its higher speed are a good combo to force out stuff like Ytwo. STAB U-Turn to pivot on predicted switches also seems like it'd be handy. It also has Fighting STAB to hit any Steel-type walls that infest the tier. If one or both of those factors fell out of the favor in the meta, Phera would probably drop to dumpster tier.


InvalidOS The first set doesn't really punish Imposter, since Eviolite Chansey will have much higher bulk. And, with Unaware itself, it's gonna shrug off the Spectral Thief and steal the boosts back. Chansey wins most encounters and will come out of it with all your boosts.

252+ Atk Spooky Plate Metagross-Mega Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 112-132 (15.9 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO

+6 252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 153-180 (21.7 - 25.5%) -- 1% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Chansey Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 138-164 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


On the second set, Punishment is one of those "good on paper, bad in practice" moves. Especially on Metagross, you're not going to be able to pull off a Punishment against a Power Trip user unless they make a dumb play or you have a Focus Sash. Same to Stored Power with Moongeist coverage. Additionally, Punishment does not ignore defensive boosts, unless something's changed that I'm not aware of, so its actually really bad at countering stuff like Cosmic Power.


On the third set, I'm not sure how it's a pivot without a pivot move. Weakness Policy on a Steel-type seems kinda iffy to me since... V-Create is common but... it's V-Create, it friggin' hurts. Weakness Policy in general if iffy though due to the ubiquity of stuff like Prankster Haze to nullify one-time boosts. Also not sure Scrappy just for Drain Punch is optimal.


There's certainly some interesting thoughts behind the sets, but I'm not sure they'll alter Metagross' VR or make it into the setpedia since they have some major flaws.
 
I do think Metagross-mega is worth a ranking in d. Though it is outclassed very slightly as a wall by Solgaleo (See the hide tag to see just how slight the outclassing it is), Metagross's offensive stats are much better. This allows it to run an offensive pivot set that is fairly effective against offensive teams in the meta. I got this idea from someone's Regen-scarf Genesect set that they posted in Creative and Underrated sets, I think it was Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request). The point is that it has enough bulk to switch into an attack from full health and threaten back, then switch out to get its health back.

HP: Metagross-mega has 80, Solgaleo has 137

Attack: Meta 145, Solg 137

Def: meta 150, Solg 107

Spa: Meta 105, Solg 113

spdef: meta 110, Solg 89

Spe: meta 110, solg 97

Assessment: Metagross holds the advantage against Solgaleo in all stats except SpA (doesn't matter too much), and hp. Let's compare theirbulk against some common attackers that they'd switch into:

Diancie-Mega against Metagross-mega:
252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 65-77 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Diancie-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 272-320 (74.7 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Diancie-mega against Solgaleo
252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 164-193 (34.3 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo: 83-98 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Diancie-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo: 346-408 (72.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mewtwo-mega-y against Metagross-mega
252 SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 328-388 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 115-135 (31.5 - 37%) -- 83.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 284-336 (78 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mewtwo-mega-y against Solgaleo
252 SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 378-446 (79 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 132-155 (27.6 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 328-386 (68.6 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As we can see, the bulk difference between the two is barely noticeable. And also remember that putting an Assault Vest on these mons and giving them a nature that boosts one of their defensive stats will contribute to their bulk as well, though this post won't be bothering with Assault Vests or defense-boosting natures.

Offensive Pivot
Metagross-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spd / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Sunsteel Strike
- Dragon Ascent
- V-Create / Ice Hammer / Trick / Bolt Strike

This reaches 478 speed, which means it outspeeds everything up to Ninjask with +speed or Deoxys-s without a boosting nature. U-turn lets it hit MMY, Mega Sceptile, Deoxys forms and Hoopa-U on switchin hard. Sunsteel strike nails Sturdy Shedinja, Audino-Mega on a switch, Diancie-Mega and non-scarfed Kyurem-forms. Dragon Ascent blasts wallbreaker MMX sets, Heracross-Mega, and Primal Kyogre. The fourth moveslot is a filler: V-create can surprise wallbreaker Kartana, other steel types, and imposter somewhat. Ice Hammer hurts Zygarde-C and Giratina and can offensively check the most common sets of Rayquaza-mega as well (The Triage sets can't KO you with priority before you kill them back, and the Aerilate sets can't either). Trick lets you cripple an annoying Giratina, Steel-type, or Imposter that switches in, but it's rarely useful because the speed is vital. Finally Bolt Strike lets you blast Celesteela and Primal Kyogre harder but has no real use besides that. Precipice Blades is the best move to hit Primal Groudon with, but it still doesn't do enough.

Of course, as an offensive regen pivot, the question then becomes, is Genesect better? The main thing Genesect has over Metagross is the Bug typing giving it STAB U-turn. This allows it to hit mons like MMY way harder (it does about 65% on a single U-Turn), but in all other aspects it is no better.

The Bug typing is considerably worse defensively than the Psychic typing - giving it a nasty Flying weakness, which means it can't check Rayquaza-Mega like Solgaleo can, and accentuating the Fire weakness to an unmanageable level, which makes switching into threats that may run Fire coverage a risky prospect. On the other hand, Metagross's Psychic typing isn't nearly as bad for it defensively as it can still switch in to some supereffective attacks like the calcs showed.

U-Turn Calcs
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 180-214 (43.2 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sceptile-Mega: 172-204 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 392-464 (107.6 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Plus valuable chip to everything else

Sunsteel Calcs
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 236-282 (57.5 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Diancie-Mega is of course totally destroyed
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 320-378 (70.1 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 306-362 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-White: 330-390 (72.6 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (You outspeed if it is not a scarf guaranteed)

Dragon Ascent Calcs
Meta survives any 1 hit 93.7% of the time:
252 Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 232-274 (63.7 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 310-366 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
And hits back with
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 274-324 (65.8 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So deal some chip
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 132-156 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO (don't use this move)

Ice Hammer calcs
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 166-196 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 95.3% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
Yeah you're not breaking through that
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 328-388 (51.5 - 61%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(But you probably could break through that.)

Mega Rayquaza loses the 1v1
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 213-252 (58.5 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Triage Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 154-182 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
You can't switch into Life Orb once boosted, sadly. But once you're safely in, you can
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 408-484 (98.5 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Bolt Strike Calcs
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 286-338 (70.7 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 260-308 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And remember that Metagross is not supposed to be breaking through these Pokemon on its own, but softening them up or cleaning up after a wallbreaker.

TLDR: Make it d rank along with Genesect please.b
 
metagross-mega.gif


I would like to request that Metagross-Mega be evaluated for placement. Here's a few sets:

Sets:
Bulky Offensive Sweeper:
Metagross-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Sunsteel Strike
- Spectral Thief
- Horn Leech/Drain Punch/Leech Life

This set is made to abuse the combination of bulk and speed that Metagross-Mega possesses. Shift Gear gives a great boost to it's already decently good speed. Due to it also having great bulk, it can reasonably use Horn Leech, Drain Punch or Leech Life to heal itself. Spectral Thief and Unaware are used as Improofing. The combination not only helps protect against Imposter, it outright punishes Imposter users. Unaware makes it so that the Imposter can't use the benefits of Shift Gear or any other stat boosts that Metagross has, and Spooky Spectral Thief allows Metagross to punish the Imposter by essentially using the Imposter to double it's own stat boosts. Sunsteel Strike is used for the same reason you would run it on any other set.

Offensive Shift Gear:
Metagross-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Photon Geyser
- Sunsteel Strike
- Punishment
This set still has Leftovers due to Metagross' bulk, making the set slightly harder to deal with. Steelworker makes Sunsteel Strike a lot more powerful, making it better as a wallbreaker. You could use Adaptability if you wanted a boost to Photon Geyser as well, though it is highly discouraged. Punishment allows it to punish Stored Power/Power Trip users. It can also punish Cosmic Power users.

Offensive Pivot:
Metagross-Mega @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Tinted Lens/Neuroforce/Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser
- Drain Punch
Yes, the Ability is interchangeable. This set can be switched in on most setup sweepers and lock them down when used as an offensive pivot. The Weakness Policy makes it even more effective as a pivot or sweeper. Sunsteel Strike and Photon Geyser are there for obvious reasons. Drain Punch allows it to last longer and recover from damage it could take from a switch.


I would suggest putting it in C rank, as it has quite a few counters. I would enjoy seeing any reasons for it being better than C rank, or worse. Or if there is a completely different set for it that is much better than any of my listed sets. Please be civilized in any criticisms of this post.

I wouldn't recommend running either of these sets on Metagross, but if you were to go with the Unaware set, it looks like Punishment would fit better on it because then it actually does ignore the defensive boosts on opposing mons. I used to run Punishment on Unaware Yveltal but found that Spectral Thief was all around a better move for it. I tried Unaware on DM Necrozma before and found it lackluster as it can't handle the very common V-Create well at all. It needs Spectral Thief to be decent with Unaware, and as Rumors stated, that leads to trouble with imposter.

It looks like SuperSkylake's idea for an offensive regen pivot would be much better for Metagross. D rank sounds about right for it, as there is no real reason to use it over Solgaleo or DM Necrozma that I can see other than speed tying with +spe Diancie.


And OM!, I'm not sure how many Kartana's there are these days not running +Atk natures or not wearing bands or not boosted to +6 or not having Steelworker or Tough Claws.

Lets say the opposing team pivots into Kartana with a U-Turn to face Wall-dino, giving it a +1 def boost:
252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 188-224 (45.8 - 54.6%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Next turn, you either switch out or take this hit:
252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 144-170 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If mid rolls land and the field has no hazards, Audino has a chance of surviving these two hits. If Kartana has a boosting ability like Steelworker though, Audino takes 52.6 - 62.1% while at +2.

And what does Audino do once its in on Kartana other than pray for no crits and pass some defense boosts to someone? Maybe it needs something like Will-o-Wisp to punish it harder or maybe even better, Strength Sap so you can simultaneously lower its attack and raise your defense. That way you can force it out rather than allow them to keep clicking Sunsteel and putting the pressure on you.
 
I wouldn't recommend running either of these sets on Metagross, but if you were to go with the Unaware set, it looks like Punishment would fit better on it because then it actually does ignore the defensive boosts on opposing mons.

Unless it was a bug that's been fixed since I last tried that Punishment + Unaware (which, admittedly, was a long time ago), Unaware makes Punishment ignore the stat boosts, leaving it at BP 60. I imagine Punishment would be a staple move on Unawares if this were not the case, unless it's been overlooked super hard by the whole community. ...which, while not likely, has happened in the past on several occasions.
 
OM! Desoland and Hustle give damage boosts, but leave it priority vulnerable and do nothing to address its most glaring issues in lack of bulk, bad STAB typing, (Ytwo shares this problem too, but just has rather well distributed stats), and reliance on Focus Sash to stay in on anything it can't OHKO. Anything can be brought in on a slow pivot, but absolutely demanding it come in on one is a pretty big drawback.

I don't really use Phera myself, but I imagine it gets away with its ranking due to its typing. It's faster than the Psychics in the tier, so Bug STAB and its higher speed are a good combo to force out stuff like Ytwo. STAB U-Turn to pivot on predicted switches also seems like it'd be handy. It also has Fighting STAB to hit any Steel-type walls that infest the tier. If one or both of those factors fell out of the favor in the meta, Phera would probably drop to dumpster tier.


InvalidOS The first set doesn't really punish Imposter, since Eviolite Chansey will have much higher bulk. And, with Unaware itself, it's gonna shrug off the Spectral Thief and steal the boosts back. Chansey wins most encounters and will come out of it with all your boosts.

252+ Atk Spooky Plate Metagross-Mega Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 112-132 (15.9 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO

+6 252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 153-180 (21.7 - 25.5%) -- 1% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Chansey Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 138-164 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

On the second set, Punishment is one of those "good on paper, bad in practice" moves. Especially on Metagross, you're not going to be able to pull off a Punishment against a Power Trip user unless they make a dumb play or you have a Focus Sash. Same to Stored Power with Moongeist coverage. Additionally, Punishment does not ignore defensive boosts, unless something's changed that I'm not aware of, so its actually really bad at countering stuff like Cosmic Power.

On the third set, I'm not sure how it's a pivot without a pivot move. Weakness Policy on a Steel-type seems kinda iffy to me since... V-Create is common but... it's V-Create, it friggin' hurts. Weakness Policy in general if iffy though due to the ubiquity of stuff like Prankster Haze to nullify one-time boosts. Also not sure Scrappy just for Drain Punch is optimal.


There's certainly some interesting thoughts behind the sets, but I'm not sure they'll alter Metagross' VR or make it into the setpedia since they have some major flaws.
I agree with Deoxys-A’s lack of bulk and typing. But just was curious about what Life Orb Hustle Deoxys-A would need to be afraid of not KOing? As Hustle is like Protean for all physical moves, and Life Orb almost completely secures 1HKOs against the toughest walls: Giratina, Lugia and biggest rivals: MMY, and MMX.

If it can go first and 1HKO, then isn’t that something that makes it justifiable to not use Focus Sash, and not worry about taking hits?

Priority is the only threat if it can 1HKO the would be walls...

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Deoxys-Attack Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 325-385 (78.1 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Offense is it’s greatest defense.
I wouldn't recommend running either of these sets on Metagross, but if you were to go with the Unaware set, it looks like Punishment would fit better on it because then it actually does ignore the defensive boosts on opposing mons. I used to run Punishment on Unaware Yveltal but found that Spectral Thief was all around a better move for it. I tried Unaware on DM Necrozma before and found it lackluster as it can't handle the very common V-Create well at all. It needs Spectral Thief to be decent with Unaware, and as Rumors stated, that leads to trouble with imposter.

It looks like SuperSkylake's idea for an offensive regen pivot would be much better for Metagross. D rank sounds about right for it, as there is no real reason to use it over Solgaleo or DM Necrozma that I can see other than speed tying with +spe Diancie.

And OM!, I'm not sure how many Kartana's there are these days not running +Atk natures or not wearing bands or not boosted to +6 or not having Steelworker or Tough Claws.

Lets say the opposing team pivots into Kartana with a U-Turn to face Wall-dino, giving it a +1 def boost:
252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 188-224 (45.8 - 54.6%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Next turn, you either switch out or take this hit:
252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 144-170 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If mid rolls land and the field has no hazards, Audino has a chance of surviving these two hits. If Kartana has a boosting ability like Steelworker though, Audino takes 52.6 - 62.1% while at +2.

Remember, Kartana is the one switching in, so no way is Audino coming in on +6 Attack.

And what does Audino do once its in on Kartana other than pray for no crits and pass some defense boosts to someone? Maybe it needs something like Will-o-Wisp to punish it harder or maybe even better, Strength Sap so you can simultaneously lower its attack and raise your defense. That way you can force it out rather than allow them to keep clicking Sunsteel and putting the pressure on you.
Jolly: Unburden sets don’t typically run anything besides Sitrus Berry, and I have seen some Jolly sets (they told me it was Jolly to outsped other foes in case their opponent had Prankster Haze and they needed to send it in later to sweep without the Speed boost). So for those ones.

Lack of +6: If they know Audino-Mega has Spectral Thief, they won’t use a Belly Drum, hence no set up on Unburden. If they assume it will switch and they decide to Belly Drum, then they are screwing themselves and face either a 2HKO (below) or worse... Audino-Mega Baton Passing +6 Attack and +1 Defense (from U-turn) to a teammate that can sweep! Not bad for a slow pivot...

+6 252 Atk Audino-Mega Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 157-185 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (75% HP Kartana factoring in Belly Drum and Sitrus)

Max roll: Let’s address worst case scenario based on your calcs: the foe deals 54.6%%+41.4% damage =97% damage.

Let’s Assume Stealth Rocks as Audino-Mega switches into U-Turn, which is canceled out after the first turn of Leftovers from U-turn plus another turn of Leftovers from the first Sunsteel Strike turn. (Thus it would cancel it out before the 2nd Sunsteel Strike).

Why are you assuming Audino-Mega would need mid-roll for damage?
Max roll doesn’t 2HKO. Also, it can use Shore Up the turn the foe would use the first, second, etc. Sunsteel Strike.
You cannot kill until you deal 53.25% or more damage each turn (Leftovers included) - That’s almost near the max damage from Sunsteel Strike. This heal would happen before the second Sunsteel Strike and just build +1 Defense... if Kartana isn’t boosting its Attack, Audino-Mega tanks hits like an ever-growing Brick Wall. Sunsteel Strike also only has 8 pp, so stalling actually has a purpose.

No W-o-W due to Accuracy, and Flash Fire. No Sap Sipper due to Contrarian users (MMX).

“And what does Audino do once its in on Kartana other than pray for no crits and pass some defense boosts to someone?”

It hard walls it’s would-be counter, slow pivots out boosts to a potential set-ups sweeper that doesn’t mind the Defense boosts (and anything Spectral Thief May have picked up), and makes a lot more sense than just slow pivoting U-Turn (beware Spiky Shield, Baneful Bunker foes), or dry (no boosts) Baton Passing (which I saw and thus inspired my set).

After stalling with Shore Up, it can also use Dragon Tail to force it out, or if it could have used Core Enforcer to remove its Steelworker, etc. and then tank more hits.

Fur Coat and Unaware are useless vs Sunsteel Strike, Stamina turns a white fluffy ball into a red brick wall.

Audino-Mega does Stamina better than any other BH ranked Pokémon due to its typing. Sorry Wgglytuff.

Lastly- I think you would be surprised by how continuously using Dragon Tail forces foes to just attack you if they don’t have Substitute or switch in a Fairy type. This adds Defense boosts and also means they can’t just send in Kartana as Dragon Tail underspeeds their U-turns, etc.
 
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First off, I want to say I'm not disliking the Audino set. I think Stamina is a neat ability and Audino does look like one who could take advantage of it due to its normal typing. But in practice, for this set to check the hardest hitting Sunsteel Strike seems like a stretch. Things have to go completely your way for it to work out.

Let's go back to the situation I described in the last post where Audino is pivoted on with a U-Turn to get +1 def and face Kartana. Ok, so now what is the first move you choose? Say you are bold and think they are going to set up on you right away: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-755045428

Ok so that didn't work out. Say you go conservative and shore up first: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-755049501

That one didn't work out either. I chose to Spectral Thief there, but say you chose Dragon Tail instead. Then you are left seeing what RNG brings in on Audino who now is in pretty rough shape. Here's to hoping its not a special attacker.

Now say you just want to wall and start spamming recovery: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-755050389

This situation is the one that could work. After eating 3 Sunsteels you are at +4 with almost full health, which is good. But when do you stop clicking recovery? If you start using Spectral, Kartana gets the upper hand on your slow recovery. If you Baton Pass, that is a decent option but its a slow pass that will likely leave Audino at around 50% and that makes it tougher to switch in later. If you go Dragon Tail, again you are bringing a new opponent in to face you when you are likely below 50% of your health. After clicking recovery a couple times, you are prone to become set up fodder and you can see what +6 Kartana thinks of +4 Audino.

Note: This Kartana is Jolly Steelworker with no held item and Audino is a copy of your set. Also, I don't recommend using Deoxys-Speed.
 
OM!


The problem with Hustle is the 20% accuracy drop. In this particular instance, this drops Bolt Strike's accuracy from 85% to 67%. You're effectively missing 1/3rd of the time. That is hardly reliable and pretty much mandates that a Hustle user also be a Coil user. But against Lugia specifically, missing leads to one of these scenarios potentially happening...

U-turn 67.1 - 78.9%
Volt Switch 37.1 - 43.7%
Core Enforcer 52.6 - 62.1%
Spectral Thief 85.5 - 100.6%
Knock Off 92.1 - 108.5%

This assumes you're running max bulk Deo-A. Which, I think is less common than min bulk to annoy Imposters. Which would be...

U-turn 204.6 - 240.7%
Volt Switch 102.3 - 120.3%
Spectral Thief 262.5 - 309.2%
Core Enforcer 113.1 - 133.2%
Knock Off 282.8 - 333.5%


That's 0 Def/SpD EVs and IVs for dissuading Imposter while still retaining full HP EVs and IVs on Deo-A (I dunno if anti-Imposter Deo-A runs HP EVs and IVs or not). This also discounts other potential moves such as Spiky/Baneful/King's, Spore, Will-o-Wisp, Glare/Nuzzle, Encore, and so forth.

But yeah, the important thing is, at best, Hustle causes your move to fail 20% of the time, at minimum. So, you're gonna get bitten in the butt for running it fairly frequently. Unless you run Coil, but Deo-A has no business trying to set up Coil.
 
I certainly feel like Stamina is very viable, as you mentioned, Audino can use it because of its amazing ability to wall defensive mons. However, while imposter itself fails to do anything meaningful with that set, it can freely recover and pass on the boosts or exhaust some of your pp. While I understand the utility of Baton Pass, I am going to recommend Anchor Shot over Baton Pass, as it threatens Imposter, and can trap some of the physically attacking mons that struggle to break past without crits. Dragon Tail can still be ran. I also feel like Audino is not the only viable user of Stamina, as mons like Giratina and Zygod can use it to answer certain physical attackers (like winning the Kartana match up)
 
OM! Desoland and Hustle give damage boosts, but leave it priority vulnerable and do nothing to address its most glaring issues in lack of bulk, bad STAB typing, (Ytwo shares this problem too, but just has rather well distributed stats), and reliance on Focus Sash to stay in on anything it can't OHKO. Anything can be brought in on a slow pivot, but absolutely demanding it come in on one is a pretty big drawback.

I don't really use Phera myself, but I imagine it gets away with its ranking due to its typing. It's faster than the Psychics in the tier, so Bug STAB and its higher speed are a good combo to force out stuff like Ytwo. STAB U-Turn to pivot on predicted switches also seems like it'd be handy. It also has Fighting STAB to hit any Steel-type walls that infest the tier. If one or both of those factors fell out of the favor in the meta, Phera would probably drop to dumpster tier.


InvalidOS The first set doesn't really punish Imposter, since Eviolite Chansey will have much higher bulk. And, with Unaware itself, it's gonna shrug off the Spectral Thief and steal the boosts back. Chansey wins most encounters and will come out of it with all your boosts.

252+ Atk Spooky Plate Metagross-Mega Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 112-132 (15.9 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO

+6 252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 153-180 (21.7 - 25.5%) -- 1% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Chansey Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 138-164 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


On the second set, Punishment is one of those "good on paper, bad in practice" moves. Especially on Metagross, you're not going to be able to pull off a Punishment against a Power Trip user unless they make a dumb play or you have a Focus Sash. Same to Stored Power with Moongeist coverage. Additionally, Punishment does not ignore defensive boosts, unless something's changed that I'm not aware of, so its actually really bad at countering stuff like Cosmic Power.


On the third set, I'm not sure how it's a pivot without a pivot move. Weakness Policy on a Steel-type seems kinda iffy to me since... V-Create is common but... it's V-Create, it friggin' hurts. Weakness Policy in general if iffy though due to the ubiquity of stuff like Prankster Haze to nullify one-time boosts. Also not sure Scrappy just for Drain Punch is optimal.


There's certainly some interesting thoughts behind the sets, but I'm not sure they'll alter Metagross' VR or make it into the setpedia since they have some major flaws.

Thanks for the criticism. Though, on your point about Chansey, it doesn't hold up. Imposter copies every stat, which is why the Choice Scarf is used on it. All you have to do is be faster than Chansey. (or perish trap it if you want to be evil)
I do think Metagross-mega is worth a ranking in d. Though it is outclassed very slightly as a wall by Solgaleo (See the hide tag to see just how slight the outclassing it is), Metagross's offensive stats are much better. This allows it to run an offensive pivot set that is fairly effective against offensive teams in the meta. I got this idea from someone's Regen-scarf Genesect set that they posted in Creative and Underrated sets, I think it was Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request). The point is that it has enough bulk to switch into an attack from full health and threaten back, then switch out to get its health back.

HP: Metagross-mega has 80, Solgaleo has 137

Attack: Meta 145, Solg 137

Def: meta 150, Solg 107

Spa: Meta 105, Solg 113

spdef: meta 110, Solg 89

Spe: meta 110, solg 97

Assessment: Metagross holds the advantage against Solgaleo in all stats except SpA (doesn't matter too much), and hp. Let's compare theirbulk against some common attackers that they'd switch into:

Diancie-Mega against Metagross-mega:
252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 65-77 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Diancie-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 272-320 (74.7 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Diancie-mega against Solgaleo
252 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 164-193 (34.3 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo: 83-98 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Diancie-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Solgaleo: 346-408 (72.3 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mewtwo-mega-y against Metagross-mega
252 SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 328-388 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 115-135 (31.5 - 37%) -- 83.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 284-336 (78 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mewtwo-mega-y against Solgaleo
252 SpA Choice Specs Mewtwo-Mega-Y Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 378-446 (79 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 132-155 (27.6 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 328-386 (68.6 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As we can see, the bulk difference between the two is barely noticeable. And also remember that putting an Assault Vest on these mons and giving them a nature that boosts one of their defensive stats will contribute to their bulk as well, though this post won't be bothering with Assault Vests or defense-boosting natures.

Offensive Pivot
Metagross-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spd / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Sunsteel Strike
- Dragon Ascent
- V-Create / Ice Hammer / Trick / Bolt Strike

This reaches 478 speed, which means it outspeeds everything up to Ninjask with +speed or Deoxys-s without a boosting nature. U-turn lets it hit MMY, Mega Sceptile, Deoxys forms and Hoopa-U on switchin hard. Sunsteel strike nails Sturdy Shedinja, Audino-Mega on a switch, Diancie-Mega and non-scarfed Kyurem-forms. Dragon Ascent blasts wallbreaker MMX sets, Heracross-Mega, and Primal Kyogre. The fourth moveslot is a filler: V-create can surprise wallbreaker Kartana, other steel types, and imposter somewhat. Ice Hammer hurts Zygarde-C and Giratina and can offensively check the most common sets of Rayquaza-mega as well (The Triage sets can't KO you with priority before you kill them back, and the Aerilate sets can't either). Trick lets you cripple an annoying Giratina, Steel-type, or Imposter that switches in, but it's rarely useful because the speed is vital. Finally Bolt Strike lets you blast Celesteela and Primal Kyogre harder but has no real use besides that. Precipice Blades is the best move to hit Primal Groudon with, but it still doesn't do enough.

Of course, as an offensive regen pivot, the question then becomes, is Genesect better? The main thing Genesect has over Metagross is the Bug typing giving it STAB U-turn. This allows it to hit mons like MMY way harder (it does about 65% on a single U-Turn), but in all other aspects it is no better.

The Bug typing is considerably worse defensively than the Psychic typing - giving it a nasty Flying weakness, which means it can't check Rayquaza-Mega like Solgaleo can, and accentuating the Fire weakness to an unmanageable level, which makes switching into threats that may run Fire coverage a risky prospect. On the other hand, Metagross's Psychic typing isn't nearly as bad for it defensively as it can still switch in to some supereffective attacks like the calcs showed.

U-Turn Calcs
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 180-214 (43.2 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sceptile-Mega: 172-204 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 392-464 (107.6 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Plus valuable chip to everything else

Sunsteel Calcs
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 236-282 (57.5 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Diancie-Mega is of course totally destroyed
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 320-378 (70.1 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-Black: 306-362 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyurem-White: 330-390 (72.6 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (You outspeed if it is not a scarf guaranteed)

Dragon Ascent Calcs
Meta survives any 1 hit 93.7% of the time:
252 Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 232-274 (63.7 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 310-366 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
And hits back with
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 274-324 (65.8 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So deal some chip
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 132-156 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO (don't use this move)

Ice Hammer calcs
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 166-196 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 95.3% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
Yeah you're not breaking through that
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 328-388 (51.5 - 61%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(But you probably could break through that.)

Mega Rayquaza loses the 1v1
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 213-252 (58.5 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Triage Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Metagross-Mega: 154-182 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
You can't switch into Life Orb once boosted, sadly. But once you're safely in, you can
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 408-484 (98.5 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Bolt Strike Calcs
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 286-338 (70.7 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross-Mega Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 260-308 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And remember that Metagross is not supposed to be breaking through these Pokemon on its own, but softening them up or cleaning up after a wallbreaker.

TLDR: Make it d rank along with Genesect please.b

Thanks for the criticism!
 
OM!


The problem with Hustle is the 20% accuracy drop. In this particular instance, this drops Bolt Strike's accuracy from 85% to 67%. You're effectively missing 1/3rd of the time. That is hardly reliable and pretty much mandates that a Hustle user also be a Coil user. But against Lugia specifically, missing leads to one of these scenarios potentially happening...

U-turn 67.1 - 78.9%
Volt Switch 37.1 - 43.7%
Core Enforcer 52.6 - 62.1%
Spectral Thief 85.5 - 100.6%
Knock Off 92.1 - 108.5%

This assumes you're running max bulk Deo-A. Which, I think is less common than min bulk to annoy Imposters. Which would be...

U-turn 204.6 - 240.7%
Volt Switch 102.3 - 120.3%
Spectral Thief 262.5 - 309.2%
Core Enforcer 113.1 - 133.2%
Knock Off 282.8 - 333.5%


That's 0 Def/SpD EVs and IVs for dissuading Imposter while still retaining full HP EVs and IVs on Deo-A (I dunno if anti-Imposter Deo-A runs HP EVs and IVs or not). This also discounts other potential moves such as Spiky/Baneful/King's, Spore, Will-o-Wisp, Glare/Nuzzle, Encore, and so forth.

But yeah, the important thing is, at best, Hustle causes your move to fail 20% of the time, at minimum. So, you're gonna get bitten in the butt for running it fairly frequently. Unless you run Coil, but Deo-A has no business trying to set up Coil.
I completely understand where you meant to come from, but It’s Fusion Bolt not Bolt Strike. 80% accuracy, not 66.7%:

https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fusion_Bolt_(move)

If Lugia has an 80% chance of dying, doesn’t that outweigh the 20% chance Lugia has of hitting back?

Remember, it has an 80% chance of hitting it on the switch in, and another 80% chance of hitting it again because it is faster than it, so really 2 turns.

Also, my point above was how if people were willing to use 85% accuracy Bolt Strike, Precipice Blades, etc. in BH and in other tiers like OU they use Stone Edge, Cross Chop, etc. at 80% accuracy without batting an eyelash.
Afraid of a 20% miss, well isn’t Bolt Strike 85% accuracy? While a Hustle boosted Fusion Bolt is equivalent to 150 Power at 80% Accuracy.

-Sunsteel Strike (Audino-Mega 1HKOed)
-Outrage (Giratina OKed)
-V-Create
-Fusion Bolt (Kyogre/Yveltal 1HKOed)

Yes Outrage is a free switch-in for Fairy Types, just like V-Create is a free switch-in for Flash Fire, and Bolt Strike (and Fusion Bolt) is a free switch in for Zygarde, P-Groudon, etc.

So the set would have been:

Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-Create
- Fusion Bolt
- Sunsteel Strike
- Outrage

Again, not promoting this set specifically as an official set, just acknowledging that it can cover most things without 4MSS
 
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Thanks for the criticism. Though, on your point about Chansey, it doesn't hold up. Imposter copies every stat, which is why the Choice Scarf is used on it. All you have to do is be faster than Chansey. (or perish trap it if you want to be evil)

About 95% of the Imposters run Eviolite, which functions even when transformed on Chansey. Preparing for Scarf Imposter and Light Ball Pikachu Imposter are good ideas, but Eviolite Chansey is the one you absolutely must prepare for and should be the basis for determining how effective a Pokemon is vs Imposter.


I completely understand where you meant to come from, but It’s Fusion Bolt not Bolt Strike. 80% accuracy, not 66.7%:

https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fusion_Bolt_(move)

If Lugia has an 80% chance of dying, doesn’t that outweigh the 20% chance Lugia has of hitting back?

Remember, it has an 80% chance of hitting it on the switch in, and another 80% chance of hitting it again because it is faster than it, so really 2 turns.

Also, my point above was how if people were willing to use 85% accuracy Bolt Strike, Precipice Blades, etc. in BH and in other tiers like OU they use Stone Edge, Cross Chop, etc. at 80% accuracy without batting an eyelash.


My mistake on Fusion Bolt. Still though, the point is 20% miss chance is hefty and, over the course of several games, it's gonna bite you in the butt eventually. Missing and getting OHKOed in return. 1 in 5 games is not consistent high high ladder or tournament play, IMO

For the 85% accuracy moves, the good players run them because they need to hit certain OHKO / 2HKO benchmarks that more accurate moves cannot reach. The cost for missing those KO thresholds is worse than the risk of missing. If those benchmarks are unnecessary for a set or team or can be reached with lower power, more accurate moves, then running them is a bad idea. Anyone who picks them purely for higher base power and no other reason isn't a good team builder.

For OU and stuff... they often don't have better options and are forced to use them. Notice how almost nobody uses Dragon Rush in standard since Outrage and Dragon Claw/Hammer work well enough. Likewise, Focus Blast is a really good example. In standard, it's everywhere. But in BH, we don't touch that crap even though it's strongest special Fighting move. Likewise, sets in standard might use Thunder, Hurricane, or Blizzard but here they're usually "lolwut?" moves except in specific circumstances (like Snow Warning Kyu-W or Prim Sea Pogre). Or a more personal answer, my Gen VI OU team has a Mienshao with Stone Edge and Hi Jump Kick. I'd much prefer Close Combat and... well, Rock Slide sucks too and Diamond Storm is a signature move, so Rock is kinda just screwed in standard. If Rock Slide got buffed to 90 BP, I can assure you nobody would touch Stone Edge without very good reason.

It's also worth noting they're rarely in position to get one-shotted if they do miss. But nobody wants to be in the position where they have to land a Cross Chop or lose their Pokemon or the match. Heck, I lost the finals of a tournament to a Head Smash miss once and another tournament to repeated Heat Wave and Icicle Crash misses in one match and both still annoy me to this day.

But yeah, I can't think of any commonly used damage-dealing move in BH with accuracy below 85, barring No Guard sets.
 
About 95% of the Imposters run Eviolite, which functions even when transformed on Chansey. Preparing for Scarf Imposter and Light Ball Pikachu Imposter are good ideas, but Eviolite Chansey is the one you absolutely must prepare for and should be the basis for determining how effective a Pokemon is vs Imposter.

My mistake on Fusion Bolt. Still though, the point is 20% miss chance is hefty and, over the course of several games, it's gonna bite you in the butt eventually. Missing and getting OHKOed in return. 1 in 5 games is not consistent high high ladder or tournament play, IMO

For the 85% accuracy moves, the good players run them because they need to hit certain OHKO / 2HKO benchmarks that more accurate moves cannot reach. The cost for missing those KO thresholds is worse than the risk of missing. If those benchmarks are unnecessary for a set or team or can be reached with lower power, more accurate moves, then running them is a bad idea. Anyone who picks them purely for higher base power and no other reason isn't a good team builder.

For OU and stuff... they often don't have better options and are forced to use them. Notice how almost nobody uses Dragon Rush in standard since Outrage and Dragon Claw/Hammer work well enough. Likewise, Focus Blast is a really good example. In standard, it's everywhere. But in BH, we don't touch that crap even though it's strongest special Fighting move. Likewise, sets in standard might use Thunder, Hurricane, or Blizzard but here they're usually "lolwut?" moves except in specific circumstances (like Snow Warning Kyu-W or Prim Sea Pogre). Or a more personal answer, my Gen VI OU team has a Mienshao with Stone Edge and Hi Jump Kick. I'd much prefer Close Combat and... well, Rock Slide sucks too and Diamond Storm is a signature move, so Rock is kinda just screwed in standard. If Rock Slide got buffed to 90 BP, I can assure you nobody would touch Stone Edge without very good reason.

It's also worth noting they're rarely in position to get one-shotted if they do miss. But nobody wants to be in the position where they have to land a Cross Chop or lose their Pokemon or the match. Heck, I lost the finals of a tournament to a Head Smash miss once and another tournament to repeated Heat Wave and Icicle Crash misses in one match and both still annoy me to this day.

But yeah, I can't think of any commonly used damage-dealing move in BH with accuracy below 85, barring No Guard sets.
80% accurate Head Smash on Magic Guard Diancie-Mega is commonly seen.

Also I have seen 75% Acc. Magma Storm on good teams like ElMustacho, who has an Xerneas set that uses Poison Heal, Moonblast, Magma Storm, Quiver Dance, and I believe Earth Power. Magma Storm is used over Infestation for the Damage boosted by Quiver Dance, while the trapping allows it to break Imposter with residual damage.

I agree with you, it isn’t ideal for it to be so frail, but like Pheromosa, it can get the job done.

I think the issue is : is the reward > risk and for me the 80% Hit > 20% miss, especially if the foe sends something on a switch, and because you likely outspeed them you get 2 chances to hit.

No turns of set up, no fear of Haze, just 1HKOs.
It’s everything else that better have Focus Sash. :P

But again, I think this is in regards to it being compared to Pheromosa. Pheromosa relies on Megahorn at 85% Accuracy, and Close Combat (if it doesn’t have Skill Link), to deal consisting Damage. Meanwhile, V-Create, without STAB, is equal in Base power to those 2 moves after Pheromosa STAB, and Outrage is equal after Hustle. The drawbacks are obvious (80% accuracy), but the power in Base Attack trumps the 5% extra Accuracy Mega Horn has over say Hustle Fusion Bolt when hitting Slowbro-Mega, or the 5% higher accuracy Close Combat has over Desolate Land V-Create when hitting Registeel, Solgaleo, etc.

Ultimately, should it be ranked higher (C+), equal (C), or lower than Pheromosa?

I certainly feel like Stamina is very viable, as you mentioned, Audino can use it because of its amazing ability to wall defensive mons. However, while imposter itself fails to do anything meaningful with that set, it can freely recover and pass on the boosts or exhaust some of your pp. While I understand the utility of Baton Pass, I am going to recommend Anchor Shot over Baton Pass, as it threatens Imposter, and can trap some of the physically attacking mons that struggle to break past without crits. Dragon Tail can still be ran. I also feel like Audino is not the only viable user of Stamina, as mons like Giratina and Zygod can use it to answer certain physical attackers (like winning the Kartana match up)
Anchor can trap Imposter, but my concern is whether it should be over Dragon Tail instead?

I’ll put that as a slash to both.

Imposter can Baton Pass to a teammate, but is their team built for it like yours? What if you Baton Pass to a Spectral Thief Normal Type like Regigas or Arceus? If Imposter is their only remaining Normal type then they will lose the boosts and you can Spectral Thief it.

I appreciate everyone’s replies to my Audino and Deoxys-A posts! Great discussion.

Please also keep in mind, my examples with Kartana are not about Audino being able to specialize against it, it’s about doing a much better job if it has to face it than it could with any other ability.

My thoughts were:
Since Audino’s give dry Baton Passes, Parting Shots, or more commonly - U-Turns, and their ability is ignored by Sunsteel Strike, what could make better use than Unaware, Fur Coat, and possibly Prankster?

Something that can be Baton Passed besides Speed Boost, and something that can make it live in scenarios where it normally couldn’t.

It’s going for a safe pivot to something that can set up, and thus it makes sense to take advanatage of Audino-Mega’s slow speed tier, and since it typically has this low speed anyways, it just seems like Stamina is a viable alternative to Fur Coat for luring threats in, rather than switching into threats.

I typically switch it in on predicated weak hits and Baton Pass out if the threat is sent in without a way to stop it, having accumulated some boosts. Having the ability to either Baton Pass or Dragon Tail at any given turn really allows for some mind games against your foe. I’ve even tried using a Terrain Seed items over Leftovers since it was using Baton Pass anyways and it doesn’t cost a moveslot. Misty Terrain not only prevents status moves but also could raise its SpD for Baton Passing, and help teammates that have an advanatage against the threat, but 1x use is limiting.
 
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Hustle deo a is very interesting but I can testify that hustle misses are infuriating. I have been experimenting with hustle hoopa since hyperspace never misses (set in creative sets) but I lost once because I didn't hit sunsteel on shed.
zygarde-c a+ to a

zygarde-c has gotten a lot harder to justify over giratina recently. it's a less solid check to mons like ph regi and cb adaptability mmx, and with the resurgence of sturdy shedinja you usually want giratina on your team to check it better. offensive ph zygarde has completely died out by this point, and giratina actually puts on more pressure thanks to stab spectral thief.

solgaleo a to a-

i'm not saying solgaleo is a bad mon, i just don't think it's that much better than other steels like celesteela and registeel. sure, it gives you more bulk and no fighting weakness, but the high speed and the spectral thief weakness are really bad.

shedinja b+ to a-

shed has seen increased usage on the ladder as people have figured out that the support needed is absolutely worth it because of how valuable completely and utterly shutting down certain pokemon is. highlighter's shed balance and my semistall are examples of shed teams that have found success on the ladder.

necrozma-dusk b+ to b

defensive necrozma is almost completely outclassed by solgaleo at this point imo. flash fire and prankster variants are starting to overshadow regenvest (which is still good but not that good), and necrozma dusk has a really hard time staying healthy without regen because it's slower than giratina.

offensive dusk mane is decent, the main problem i have is that every single variant relies on boosting. cb necrozma isn't a set; it gets shut down by imposter and flash fire steels. if you see a necrozma on hyper offense, you can just send in your prankster user every time.

blaziken-mega c to b-

this mon is definitely on the same level as stuff like kyuw. most teams don't have a switchin for cb lens at all because of fc giratina pretty much dying out. being able to threaten ff steels and ttar is also fantastic. FRIED CHICKEN ALL

deoxys-a b- to c

deoxys a has the biggest 4 moveslot syndrome i've ever seen. first off you need life orb and tough claws or neuroforce with v-create to ohko steels at +0 or else they kill you with uturn. you need bolt strike or ogre kills you. you need knock off and +speed or mmy kills you. you need cb+claws+spectral thief or mmx kills you. you need dazzling or you die to priority. mons like audino and giratina can take a hit and ohko back. you need stab. you want sleep and even then you need sleep turns. you want sash but then you don't 2hko giratina with ice beam. you want setup but that requires a free turn and GOOD LUCK GETTING THAT

outspeeding and ohkoing mmy as well as preventing imposter from switching in is nice, but this mon just needs too many things. with mmy/mmx/other offensive mons you can do stuff more easily thanks to the higher bulk.
Disagree with Zygod drop, it has higher bulk than Tina and avoids the 90 speed tier which is nice. It's not like Zygod doesn't handle Gigas relevantly worse than Tina and Tina doesn't handle cb mmx. In addition zygod can actually threaten imposter which Tina cannot because of ghost typing. Both are comfortable a+.
Agree with Solg drop, speed tier and not that great typing anymore is disadvantageous and is usually outclassed by regi or aegi. Mmy can usually break past with moongeist contrary against ff and fire coverage on regenvest.
Disagree with dm drop its damage output and slower speed tier is nice as a regenvester and the bulk is easy to set up and avoid revenge killing.
Raise Shed mold breaker is rare and most offensive mons don't even want to run sungeist because apart from certain ones like gar and mmy it doesn't offer good coverage.
Raise Blaze
No comment on deo but drop is fine.
Now back to my own noms. Back a while I nominated these.
Dialga to A-
Regenvest is a good offensive check to many special attackers but the dd sets are really threatening rn. Doom Desire + dragon tail is near impossible to switch in as you shuffle their pokemon to easily remove one since nothing can take +6 doom desire. Core enforcer is great for easier improof too. Magic Bounce and Fur Coat are really nice for setup and tinted and steelworker and nukes. Mmx can't switch in which is nice too.
Megalix to B-. Nice utility mon that can take a lot of physical coverage and punish back which is important with vc and pblades common. Blocks volt switch too.
 
Shouldn't every single defensive mon's healing move be changed to Shore up? It normally heals for the same as recover, slack off... but also has the perk of healing even more when in sand. So for example

Imposter
Chansey @ Eviolite / Choice Scarf / Earth Plate / Lucky Punch
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out / Anchor Shot
- Whirlwind / Wish / Heal Bell
- Milk Drink
- Metal Burst / Final Gambit

Milk Drink on Chansey should change into Shore up.
 
Shouldn't every single defensive mon's healing move be changed to Shore up? It normally heals for the same as recover, slack off... but also has the perk of healing even more when in sand. So for example

Imposter
Chansey @ Eviolite / Choice Scarf / Earth Plate / Lucky Punch
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out / Anchor Shot
- Whirlwind / Wish / Heal Bell
- Milk Drink
- Metal Burst / Final Gambit

Milk Drink on Chansey should change into Shore up.
You're more likely to face a mon with Imprison+Shore Up than to face a mon with Sand Stream (note: I don't have actual data to back this up, it's just a guess), so unless you have Sand Stream, Shore Up isn't necessarily a good idea. Even if you have Sand Stream, having Shore Up on every member of your team is still probably not a good idea, since a single Imprison mon could shut down your whole team's recovery.
 
Shouldn't every single defensive mon's healing move be changed to Shore up? It normally heals for the same as recover, slack off... but also has the perk of healing even more when in sand. So for example

Imposter
Chansey @ Eviolite / Choice Scarf / Earth Plate / Lucky Punch
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out / Anchor Shot
- Whirlwind / Wish / Heal Bell
- Milk Drink
- Metal Burst / Final Gambit

Milk Drink on Chansey should change into Shore up.

In general Shore Up is better, yes, but you don't wan't a mon to have the same recovery as it's improof because then your improof can't heal if they have imprison transform. Also on mons such as Red Orb Groudon shore up isnt really better because the weather is unlikely to be sand if you have Desolate Land. With this in mind, I only give Shore Up to the mons that are likely to be checking Tyranitar (the main sand user).

I like Soft-Boiled Chansey for stylistic reasons.

Edit: sniped
 
Don’t forget Roost on Lugia, Yveltal, Ho-Oh, Celesteelia.

Strength Sap (Imposterproof if used on a Magic Bouncer or a Prankster Dark Type, or Sap Sipper)

Wish also has its place on Baneful Bunker sets (Poison Stall on a Pivot Wall)

Shouldn't every single defensive mon's healing move be changed to Shore up? It normally heals for the same as recover, slack off... but also has the perk of healing even more when in sand. So for example

Imposter
Chansey @ Eviolite / Choice Scarf / Earth Plate / Lucky Punch
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out / Anchor Shot
- Whirlwind / Wish / Heal Bell
- Milk Drink
- Metal Burst / Final Gambit

Milk Drink on Chansey should change into Shore up.

Hustle deo a is very interesting but I can testify that hustle misses are infuriating. I have been experimenting with hustle hoopa since hyperspace never misses (set in creative sets) but I lost once because I didn't hit sunsteel on shed.
Disagree with Zygod drop, it has higher bulk than Tina and avoids the 90 speed tier which is nice. It's not like Zygod doesn't handle Gigas relevantly worse than Tina and Tina doesn't handle cb mmx. In addition zygod can actually threaten imposter which Tina cannot because of ghost typing. Both are comfortable a+.
Agree with Solg drop, speed tier and not that great typing anymore is disadvantageous and is usually outclassed by regi or aegi. Mmy can usually break past with moongeist contrary against ff and fire coverage on regenvest.
Disagree with dm drop its damage output and slower speed tier is nice as a regenvester and the bulk is easy to set up and avoid revenge killing.
Raise Shed mold breaker is rare and most offensive mons don't even want to run sungeist because apart from certain ones like gar and mmy it doesn't offer good coverage.
Raise Blaze
No comment on deo but drop is fine.
Now back to my own noms. Back a while I nominated these.
Dialga to A-
Regenvest is a good offensive check to many special attackers but the dd sets are really threatening rn. Doom Desire + dragon tail is near impossible to switch in as you shuffle their pokemon to easily remove one since nothing can take +6 doom desire. Core enforcer is great for easier improof too. Magic Bounce and Fur Coat are really nice for setup and tinted and steelworker and nukes. Mmx can't switch in which is nice too.
Megalix to B-. Nice utility mon that can take a lot of physical coverage and punish back which is important with vc and pblades common. Blocks volt switch too.
Megalix might be rivaled by Aggron-Mega though: less weaknesses (Water), more resistances (Grass, Ice), and comparable Def, and HP.

Aggron-Mega has slightly better Attack and while it lacks the STAB in Precipice Blades, it likely doesn’t need it. It’s SpD is much weaker though.
————
Also thank you for everyone on their points for the Deo and Audino-Mega sets.

My conclusion- Deoxys-A should be ranked based on its competitiveness with Pheromosa due to sharing a similar speed tier, while sporting minimal defenses.

Audino-Mega should have Stamina slashed as an alternative to Fur Coat. It’s something that can support your team in a unique way (slow pivot support). I made some changes based on feedback by adding slashes to my original set:

Audino-Mega @ Leftovers/Misty Seed
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 0 Spe
IVs: 0 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up/Strength Sap
- Baton Pass/Anchor Shot
- Dragon Tail/Core Enforcer
———————
Also: Download + Photon Geyser is amazing as a guaranteed boost especially on Pokémon that can attack from either Atk or SpA (Deoxys-A), Necrozma-Ultimate form, Hoopa-Unbound, etc.
 
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OM! Like I said before, I'd personally shove Deoxys-A into the D-umpster rank due to the sheer amount of team support it needs and then either a Focus Sash or even more team support. On top of this, it's typing is rather unremarkable and only notable because moves like Psycho Boost, Psystrike, and Photon Geyser are so strong. I'd settle for C-rank of sorts, but I lean on D.

Phera at least has a rather relevant STAB and has almost not competition as either a Bug or a Fighting type. Its typing is the only reason why I'd rank it higher, personally, because otherwise it shares a number of Deo's problems. I dunno if its worthy for C-rank either, but I've not run Phera since CFZ meta, so all I can really judge is by the Phera's I've encountered that have done dick-all to me. Granted, my teams usually aren't of the type that Phera can prey on.


Also, on the whole Hustle thing, now that I think of it, why are you not doing Hustle MMX instead? You get more power, more bulk, more move choice freedom, more item choice freedom, and an improved STAB combo at the cost of speed and the picking up of some weaknesses that don't matter because Deo-A bulk might as well be weak vs all. You're not using your special attack, so you're not using Deo-A's mixed capabilities, which is the main reason to run it over MMX/Y. MMX can even theoretically get away running Coil too to deal with Hustle's problems, provided you deal with the Spectral Thief users first.
 
OM! Like I said before, I'd personally shove Deoxys-A into the D-umpster rank due to the sheer amount of team support it needs and then either a Focus Sash or even more team support. On top of this, it's typing is rather unremarkable and only notable because moves like Psycho Boost, Psystrike, and Photon Geyser are so strong. I'd settle for C-rank of sorts, but I lean on D.

Phera at least has a rather relevant STAB and has almost not competition as either a Bug or a Fighting type. Its typing is the only reason why I'd rank it higher, personally, because otherwise it shares a number of Deo's problems. I dunno if its worthy for C-rank either, but I've not run Phera since CFZ meta, so all I can really judge is by the Phera's I've encountered that have done dick-all to me. Granted, my teams usually aren't of the type that Phera can prey on.

Also, on the whole Hustle thing, now that I think of it, why are you not doing Hustle MMX instead? You get more power, more bulk, more move choice freedom, more item choice freedom, and an improved STAB combo at the cost of speed and the picking up of some weaknesses that don't matter because Deo-A bulk might as well be weak vs all. You're not using your special attack, so you're not using Deo-A's mixed capabilities, which is the main reason to run it over MMX/Y. MMX can even theoretically get away running Coil too to deal with Hustle's problems, provided you deal with the Spectral Thief users first.
But then Gengar, Greninja-Ash, MMY, Sceptile, etc. can outspeed (or speedtie) and potentially 1HKO MMX.

MMX is better for Contrary because it can stay alive thanks to V-Create, and boost via Psycho Boost, but I think the main reason for Hustle is the Speed, and surprise factor (it lures in walls that you can 1HKO). Further, MMX is almost obligated to run Close Combat (or Superpower on Contrary), which can lead to 4MSS.

It’s not that MMX is bad, (for Speed though one could argue that is too big a factor), but MMX would likely have the advantage over D-A if it, like you said run different moves, which leads to would it give up Fighting STAB for the same moveset?

I think MMX would be better off as a Contrary user where it can boost its Attack with Superpower to gain a Hustle equivalent, and stay alive with V-Create.

Deoxys-A is more about immediate Speed and Attack so it wouldn’t want or need Contrary for the physical side (maybe special like Psycho Boost), and thus I feel like Deoxys-A isn’t outclassed because MMX’s advatages lie in STAB it wouldn’t use anyways and if it uses Hustle and Coil, then 4MSS due to having 1 less coverage move.

If it had the exact same moveset, then it couldn’t always KO (due to going 2nd) Sceptile-Mega, MMY, Gengar-Mega, Greninja-Ash, opposing MMX, etc. which is part of the whole reason to use Deoxys-A, while they could all 1HKO MMX.

As for Pheromosa, I would argue MMX outclasses it as a Fighting Type (let’s be honest the only Faster than MMX Pokemon weak to Fighting is Greninja-Ash and Lopunny-Mega) because it outspeeds all other Pokémon weak to Fighting harder and can survive thanks to Contrary (Superpower).

Pheromosa has some competition from Scizor-Mega, as well as Triage Heracross for Bug moves. Heracross can also provide competition for Fighting moves:

252+ Atk Life Orb Triage Heracross-Mega Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 273-322 (75 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pheromosa with Adamant:

252+ Atk Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 266-314 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Still weaker

Jolly:

252 Atk Pheromosa Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 242-288 (66.4 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even weaker

(Pheromosa typically doesn’t carry Life Orb in Pure Physical sets because Dazzling sets and Skill Link sets use Focus Sash or King’s Rock, respectively).

Bug Typing doesn’t really hurt Grass Types because the ones used are neutral (Venusaur-Mega, Kartana, Ferrothorn) besides Sceptile-Mega, and the same goes for half of the Psychics used (Solgaleo, Dusk-Mane, Dawn-Wings, Lunala, MMX, Lugia). Against Dark Types, Fighting is typically better (Tyranitar-Mega), or the same (Yveltal, Gyarados-Mega, Greninja Ash).

Also, Lopunny does offer some competition for Focus Sash Reversal Sets, due to Flail STAB and Spectral Thief Immunity.
(I.e. Flail, Reversal, Shell Smash, Spectral Thief/V-Create) and can run either Dazzling with V-Create (Aegislash) or Scrappy with Spectral Thief (anti-sweeper Check).

Regardless. I see your points and they are pretty valid, just a few technicalities on what sets them apart.
 
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first off Rumors pls stop saying phera, you remind me of fsk who calls primal kyogre "porge"

pheromosa's niche is as a revenge killer that can outspeed threatening sweepers like contrary mmy/scept and doesn't rely on items, abilities, or priority to do its job. it can also get momentum by threatening out steels.

all you really need on it is u-turn and fighting stab (usually close combat). the other two moves, ability, and item are customizable depending on team, and pheromosa can use many options well. dazzling with z ice hammer + sunsteel strike checks common priority users, refrigerate/pixilate lure in and ko common switchins like giratina and zygarde, cb + illusion can pick off mmy and steels early on.

yeah it gets walled by stuff depending on set, but hey that's why it's in c rank. it has a very distinct niche in the metagame, so it shouldn't drop.

anyway speaking of primal kyogre, i definitely had my doubts about ducky's nomination for it to move to s because in the same post he nommed mmx down to b+, but this mon really is amazing right now. regenvest (the best set) effortlessly covers endless special attackers like normalize gengar, ph xern, ph ogre, triage ray, and even contrary mmy, and thanks to regen it has no problems staying healthy. it might be the most splashable mon in the entirety of bh (save for maybe imposter). ogre deserves s for the regenvest set alone.
 
I'll let Gurpreet argue for Pher. They use it, I don't and personally don't have any real interest in arguing in its favor. (Or against it, really.) Also, Phera Phera Phera Pogre Phera Phera Phera Phera Pogre Phera Phera Phera Phera Phera Pherogra Phera Phera Phera


As for MMX, it does way, way, way more than Contrary. It has six optimal sets that include eight abilities and five items listed in the setpedia. A lot of its would-be checks cannot safely check it depending on the set. All of the ones you listed lose to Sash sets unless they have a Sash themselves. GreninjA, MSceptile, MRay, and opposing MMX cannot stay in without scouting since it might be Pixilate (or Fridge in Scept's and Ray's cases). Priority abusers like DiancieM cannot stay in because it might be Dazzling. Thanks to this unpredictability, MMX can get away with a lot of "not-usually-optimal-but-still-good" abilities and items, like Tough Claws, Simple, Magic Guard LO High Jump Kick, Regenerator, Magic Bounce, Choice Scarf, Unburden Sitrus Berry, Guts, etc. I see no reason why Hustle couldn't make that list either if someone wanted to run it.

Also, Low Kick is viable too.

Deo-A isn't strictly outclassed to the point of being less than D rank but... it's still outclassed in most roles, IMO. Outspeeding that stuff is one of the main reasons to use it, but its worse at most everything else beyond mixed offensives.
 
Ok so this isn't an argument about whether Deo-A or Phero is better but whether Deo-A deserves B-. Comparing to the rest of B- Deo-A requires much more team support to shine. Celesteela shouldn't even be B- in the first place (it is on par with Ferro IMO). Kyurem-White can be very difficult to switch-in for teams and has a good offensive typing and decent bulk. Slowbro-Mega is an excellent MMX answer and its Soundproof sets can check every single -ate all while being improof. Necro-U I have no experience with but it's bulk is decent and the offensive typing is very nice to pressure Zygtina and other stuff. Swampert is still a pretty solid physical wall that has advantages over Zygod. All of the above mons require less team support than Deo-A and can perform well in the current meta (Maybe not Necro-U but I never used it so). Deo-A really hates the fact that most mons can survive a hit from it (even offensive mons thanks to No EV Limit) and unlike other strong fast attackers like MMY, MMX, MGar, and heck even Scept it gets KOed by the most common pivot move U-Turn (or breaks the sash). So Deo-A should fit better in the C-Rank than B- along with Phero (who can take U-turn :O). If you firmly believe that Deo-A>Phero think of how C-Rank is like C-,C,C+ in 1 rank so just treat it as Deo-A in C+ and Phero in C or smth.
I just realized but wtf is Nihilego, Magearna, and Sableye doing in C, drop the former to D and raise the other 2 to B-. Magearna has a solid advantage over other steels in that it has a strong offensive presence (Quiet Z-Fleur OHKOs tina from full and you can run Sassy if you have chip damage). Its MB set also can't be nullified and normal moonblast still does a chunk to stuff, basically its like less bulky regi+xern. Sableye obviously ties with Ferro for speed and immune to MMX STABs which make it B- Material already.
 
Personally, I don’t see the appeal for Alolan-Muk- it only has 75 Defense. Isn’t it better to use Sandstream Eviolite Rhydon?
no. they wall completely different things.

muk uses its typing to hard check pretty much every single mmy variant besides sheer force. if it has unaware (it usually does), then it can also cover contrary mega sceptile. very hard to justify but it can be used.

rhydon is a physical wall, and despite sand stream + eviolite it's still not switching into mmy reliably or into mega sceptile at all. its niche is checking physical/mixed attackers like magic guard diancie, red orb don lacking solar blade and others.
 
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