Arceus is only Fairy-typed when it has the ability Multitype and is holding a Pixie Plate. Otherwise, it is just a skin difference for Arceus-Normal.Thanks. Although I literally just found it after I posted it. By the way, what is going on with this. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-745588237 The opposing Fairy Arceus was immune to spectral thief while when Chansey transformed into the fairy arceus, super power hit it for super effective damage. Is there something I am missing?
this nom is pretty good and reasonable, but i personally disagree with itArceus: B Rank -> B+/A- Rank
I actually don't get this. Arceus has possibly the best balanced stat spread of every Pokemon and can do almost anything. As a Poison Heal user, it's about as good but admittedly not better than Slaking and Regigigas, sacrificing raw power for additional speed and bulk that makes it even harder to kill than the other two. Being pure Normal is a fantastic typing that grants immunity to Spectral Thief and grants minimal weaknesses, allowing it time to set up or support along with its fantastic defensive stats. It can be outclassed by others, but it is by itself one of the most versatile and reliable Pokemon to use for almost any situation.
As I said, I acknowledge that Arceus can be outclassed by others at certain roles in the metagame. My argument is that Arceus should be given some more respect for its ridiculous versitility even in BH, being able to fulfill many roles with its nearly-unrivaled stat spread and acting as competition for some already-viable sets like Regigigas/Slaking. Of course there are problems with using Arceus as there are for using ANY Pokemon in BH, a tier where virtually nothing is perfect!this nom is pretty good and reasonable, but i personally disagree with it
the problem with defensive arceus sets is that they provide mediocre defensive utility to the team because arceus only has 1 resistance (ghost). they find themselves forced to run abilities like prankster and soundproof so all the offensive threats don't just 2hko them on the switch.
additionally, arceus struggles to counter gengar, the primary offensive ghost in the metagame. normalize sets force it to run a specific set like ghostium z spectral thief or prankster glare (while other defensive pokemon like kyogre only need to run revelation dance), while other gengar variants run secret sword, which does a million to arceus.
offensive arceus is a good set, but whenever i use it, it gives the opponent basically a free turn when it tries to set up. what i mean by this is that arceus doesn't threaten anything at +0 because it hits nothing super effectively.
tail glow arceus struggles with mmx and mmy outspeeding to revenge kill it, while shell smash is disappointingly weak even at +2. unlike mons like mmx, arceus can't pressure unaware or prankster users because it can't hit super effectively.
arceus is decent, but i think you're just overstating how good it is at everything. in my eyes, it's fine where it is.
Blue Flare over Overheat, (10 base power is too minimal to care); Clanging Scales over Draco Meteor; actually you may as well just give it Contrary, and then you could give it another item.I would like to submit a sample team for this metagame. (Perish Trap Zygarde Balance), I will give a brief description of each pokemon roles in the team
Zygarde: the standard perish trap, this was designed to be incredibly tanky. as the nature implies it works as a check for certain physical attackers and can trap walls and kill them with perish song, Safety goggles are for spore spammers, such as Deoxys-Speed
Rayquaza: my Wallbreaker / Revenge Killer. Aerilate Boomburst with specs allows to 2HKO most walls in the meta. with Espeed revenge killing the weakened mon, with Overheat / Draco meteor for coverage
Aegislash: My steel / Flash Fire mon, it is my Poison heal counter / Improof of MMY. it can steal sweepers stats with spectral thief and be a hazard support with entrainment for utility use.
Heracross: Heracross is my late game cleanup mon of the team, with a great Priority STAB moves of Leech Life and Drain Punch, it can do ridiculous amounts of damage Unboosted, with Sunsteel strike for Shedinjas and the occasional fairy mon. but when boosted. Heracross's attack can reach insane levels. despite the fact, its walled by stuff like Giratina and Zygarde so it is not recommended that you use this midgame
Kyogre: Kyogre was designed to wall certain special setup sweepers and counter Normalize Gengar. with aromatherapy to prevent status users from crippling the team.
Mewtwo: Mewtwo is my Fake-speed and Main Shedinja counter for the team, with Ice beam taking out mega Rayquaza and photon geyser beating Shedinja. it does not need a +Speed nature due to its Dazzling, also making it my Improof for heracross
So thats the team! I Hope you consider adding my Sample team to the thread!
I'm not entirely sure you can call Poison Heal sab a new set when it has been in use since march. Okay march might not sound that long ago, but I'm talking about march 2015.ok first off get cress back on the vr please
i've used some of the really niche defensive pokemon in d rank like muk-a and mega scizor and there's no reason they should be ranked above cress. if anything cress got better with the transition to usum (that was a long time ago but w/e) because moongeist beam mmy has fallen out of favor with photon geyser's introduction. prankster cress is a better set than regenvest, but both are definitely at least d rank worthy. soundproof, unaware, and fur coat are also kinda cool too (although i haven't used them as much).
cress differentiates itself from other psychic-type walls because of its typing and mixed bulk. it doesn't have mega slowbro's low special bulk or lugia's stealth rock weakness. if you want a psychic wall, cresselia is your go-to mon.
you might argue that psychic walls don't have much of a role in the metagame, but the cool thing about cress in particular is that it can check lots of sweepers thanks to its unique set of weaknesses. while pokemon like zekrom or offensive dialga can easily overwhelm common walls like giratina or primal kyogre, cresselia can handle these pokemon save for z-moves simply because it's not weak to their attacks.
mega sableye to b-
the reason why i'm making this nomination isn't because of any metagame change in mega sableye's favor, it's because of a new set (not sure if i was the first to find it but that really doesn't matter): poison heal.
Sableye-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer / Worry Seed
- Knock Off / filler
- Spiky Shield / King's Shield
this set is good because it combines regenvest sableye's ability to retain momentum with every other sableye's ability to counter ph regi, and as a bonus this one is even immune to sleep.
ph sableye is a lot harder to kill than ph giratina/zyg because it doesn't share their core enforcer weaknesses and it's really slow. i'd argue that in terms of walling defensive foes, it's almost ph audino tier (core enforcer from giratina does 30, but you have a shield move and you can do decent damage in return), except it's also really slow and gives you a ph regi counter. the list of offensive threats this set hard walls is pretty small, but it's excellent at getting momentum so i believe it's a b- worthy set.
below are a couple of replays with this set:
Kyogre-Primal: I'm not really sure about this one. Yes, it's really bulky - I run Unaware on all my semistall teams and it tanks special hits like a champ. 100/90 is pretty bad though, which prevents it from walling mixed attackers. imo I'd keep at A+.I was not aware that this "vr ranking" thing existed until recently and for the most part I think it's pretty accurate but there are a few noticeable flaws that I think should be addressed. I will start at the top and work my way down so I don't miss anything.
Kyogre-Primal A+ to S:
Pogre is pretty much invincible on the special side unless it's a Xurkitree (rare) or Sceptile (uncommon). The dreaded regenvest set is just so good and it's pretty much on every stall team cause it's broken. Pheal adds offensive pressure and it takes core enforcers like a champ unlike regigigas. It's unaware and fur coat sets aren't bad either and can be really annoying to offensive mons. It is weak to Kartana (but what isn't?) and zekrom.
Mewtwo-Mega X A+ to B+:
MMX is extremely overrated. With the banning of Psychic Surge it's pretty much useless. Yes there is Photon Gayser but that doesn't really accomplish anything for it since it's worse than both sunsteel and moongeist. MMX also doesn't really have a good ability anymore like MMY does. Basically if ur using it for a Psychic type it's outclassed by MMY and if ur using it for the Attack just use Kartana since it isn't walled so easily.
Slaking A to B-:
There's really no reason to use Slaking over Regigigas unless ur running final gambit but I really don't think final gambit is A level material.
Groudon A- to B:
While it is still a pdon which is God level, it is far, far worse since I basically have one set that's easily walled and hard to improof.
Kangaskhan A- to B:
While it can easily destroy unprepared stall teams, it's pretty garbage versus offensive mons so if ur up against HO or balance it's basically fucking useless.
Gyarados-Mega B+ to B-:
Gyarados is also overrated like MMX. It objectively has better typing than Ttar but I prefer offensive Ttar which outclasses offensive gyara and defensively Yveltal is just better so there's really not much reason to be using this mon.
Arceus B to B+:
It's harder to kill Arceus than u think and it's better offensively than you'd think too. It also has a ton of viable sets similar to Mray which makes it scary to play against.
Kartana B to A+:
I really don't know how Kartana could possibly be considered on the same level as Sceptile or in what universe it has the same offensive presence as Xurkitree but here we are. Kartana is undoubtedly the best physical attacker in the metagame and it decimates entire teams with ease. It has even more viable sets than Mray and arguably has the same function as a pdon with less fortunate typing. It does struggle slightly against special attackers but that's why we have regenvest mons and steel types. Kartana may have slight problems against HO but if ur opponent has just one defensive mon something will die when u send in kart.
Xurkitree B to C+:
Some people say Kartana is too slow to be good but they're wrong. Xurkitree, however, is. It's boomburst hits harder than zekrom but zekrom is way better for obvious reasons and Mray/MDiancie are better as Specs -ate users. Even Kyurem W is better than Xurkitree idk how it's ranked lower.
Celesteela B- to B+:
Celesteela definitely isn't the best steel type but it's better than ferrothorn imo. Ppl will know it's flash fire for sure but they will with ferrothorn too. Celesteela is more similar to Aegislash in that it's relatively niche but still fairly decent even though its outclassed by registeel and solgaleo.
Slowbro-Mega B- to B+:
Slowbro is also relatively niche but it's definitely a little underrated too. Soundproof and fur coat sets are both difficult for some teams to break and it fits well on stall teams. Also it has respectable special attack so u can run sets like the legendary GLOWBRO (TM) to surprise kill things and Sap Sipper to troll Kartana.
I won't get into the C or D ranks for now since I haven't really used those mons enough to know if they're ranked correctly but I hope people consider my suggestions for the S through B ranks since i have a lot of experience with the ladder and using those mons.
while Kartana can't beat Flash Fire steels unless it runs something like Close Combat.
While it's true that you have registeel and solgaleo (which is becoming endangered in the current meta anyway) who can do this:until it meets any Flash Fire steel type and gets walled to hell and back.
In regards to deoxys-a b- to c:zygarde-c a+ to a
zygarde-c has gotten a lot harder to justify over giratina recently. it's a less solid check to mons like ph regi and cb adaptability mmx, and with the resurgence of sturdy shedinja you usually want giratina on your team to check it better. offensive ph zygarde has completely died out by this point, and giratina actually puts on more pressure thanks to stab spectral thief.
solgaleo a to a-
i'm not saying solgaleo is a bad mon, i just don't think it's that much better than other steels like celesteela and registeel. sure, it gives you more bulk and no fighting weakness, but the high speed and the spectral thief weakness are really bad.
shedinja b+ to a-
shed has seen increased usage on the ladder as people have figured out that the support needed is absolutely worth it because of how valuable completely and utterly shutting down certain pokemon is. highlighter's shed balance and my semistall are examples of shed teams that have found success on the ladder.
necrozma-dusk b+ to b
defensive necrozma is almost completely outclassed by solgaleo at this point imo. flash fire and prankster variants are starting to overshadow regenvest (which is still good but not that good), and necrozma dusk has a really hard time staying healthy without regen because it's slower than giratina.
offensive dusk mane is decent, the main problem i have is that every single variant relies on boosting. cb necrozma isn't a set; it gets shut down by imposter and flash fire steels. if you see a necrozma on hyper offense, you can just send in your prankster user every time.
blaziken-mega c to b-
this mon is definitely on the same level as stuff like kyuw. most teams don't have a switchin for cb lens at all because of fc giratina pretty much dying out. being able to threaten ff steels and ttar is also fantastic. FRIED CHICKEN ALL
deoxys-a b- to c
deoxys a has the biggest 4 moveslot syndrome i've ever seen. first off you need life orb and tough claws or neuroforce with v-create to ohko steels at +0 or else they kill you with uturn. you need bolt strike or ogre kills you. you need knock off and +speed or mmy kills you. you need cb+claws+spectral thief or mmx kills you. you need dazzling or you die to priority. mons like audino and giratina can take a hit and ohko back. you need stab. you want sleep and even then you need sleep turns. you want sash but then you don't 2hko giratina with ice beam. you want setup but that requires a free turn and GOOD LUCK GETTING THAT
outspeeding and ohkoing mmy as well as preventing imposter from switching in is nice, but this mon just needs too many things. with mmy/mmx/other offensive mons you can do stuff more easily thanks to the higher bulk.
Following numbered answers reference numbers added in quoted text.In regards to deoxys-a b- to c:P.S. Not promoting a set per say, just acknowledging that Deoxys-A, when provided my considerations, will be able to 1HKO all of the Pokémon you said it couldn’t, with just 4 moves...(9)“You need life orb and tough claws or neuroforce with v-create to ohko steels at +0 or else they kill you with uturn.”
What about Desolate Land? 50% Boost without the item. Focus Sash can be used now.(1)
“You need bolt strike or ogre kills you.”
If you want more accuracy and will use Desolate Land, Solar Blade works well, and also threatens Tyranitar-Mega, and Diancie-Mega(2), not to mention Swampert-Mega.
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Solar Blade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 382-452 (94.5 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
“You need knock off and +speed or mmy kills you.”
Desolate V-Create, without an item, does even more damage without needing an extra coverage move:
Deoxys-Attack V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y in Harsh Sunshine: 484-569 (116.3 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (3)
“You need cb+claws+spectral thief or mmx kills you.”
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X in Harsh Sunshine: 387-456 (93 - 109.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
“You need dazzling or you die to priority.”
Yes, same with Pheromosa(4), but people use her for Skill Link, and other sets... and she has weak Defenses and much less threatening offensive stats.
“Mons like audino and giratina can take a hit and ohko back.”
252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega in Harsh Sunshine: 329-387 (80.2 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Ya, about half the time...
As for other moves, what about Hustle? (5)
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Deoxys-Attack Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 367-432 (89.5 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Deoxys-Attack Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Giratina: 455-536 (90.2 - 106.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (6)
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Deoxys-Attack Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 460-543 (113.8 - 134.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (7)
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Deoxys-Attack Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Yveltal: 442-523 (96.9 - 114.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (7)
“-You need stab.
-You want sleep and even then you need sleep turns.
-You want sash but then you don't 2hko giratina with ice beam.
-You want setup but that requires a free turn and GOOD LUCK GETTING THAT”
-Hustle = STAB Equivalent.
-Now you can 1HKO the “checks”, so no need for sleep.
-You may want Sash and you can use it with Desolate Land... Otherwise you can can 1HKO Giratina with Life Orb and Hustle Outrage...
-Set up isn’t needed since you have all 4 coverage moves that you could need to handle what it needs to handle. So there isn’t a 4 moveslot syndrome...
Afraid of a 20% miss, well isn’t Bolt Strike 85% accuracy?(8) While a Hustle boosted Fusion Bolt is equivalent to 150 Power at 80% Accuracy.
-Sunsteel Strike (Audino-Mega 1HKOed)
-Outrage (Giratina OKed)
-Fusion Bolt (Kyogre/Yveltal 1HKOed)
Yes Outrage is a free switch-in for Fairy Types, just like V-Create is a free switch-in for Flash Fire, and Bolt Strike (and Fusion Bolt) is a free switch in for Zygarde, P-Groudon, etc.