BH Balanced Hackmons Resources Thread

I think Beedrill's biggest issue is that you cannot hit everything and the stuff you don't hit are really hard to bypass
Beedrill doesn’t exist in a vacuum I.e the mons you mentioned (ghostceus and Etern) are fairly easy to tech for esp considering you’re typically pairing it with another phys attacker like chomp or greninja. Mosa also lacks stab poison moves and has to go outa its way to run d ascent. M zam part is fair tho.
This never has the bulk it needs to check anything. As a water immune to electric it sounds cool but stuff like Chomp just blow past with STAB so the only niche is beating Fire/Elec Hooh which you can do with a dragon! SpD sets get blown away by zam flutter etc
Mega pert only takes mildly more percent then smth like mega audino and the defensive dragon types are fairly mid rn (mostly because of getting blown past by offensive dragons, which pert doesn’t entirely.) spdef sets job isn’t really to wall m zam flutter more it is to have a backbone vs Etern and miraidon.
Waterceus has a very clear niche which is the fat water type that does not immediately fold to Electro Drift
It retaliates with like, knock off at best (scald isn’t too consistent). This is also taking the arc slot for smth that can be done pretty much better by the above mega pert.
Also
:solgaleo: remove regen imo, all it maybe does is some speed control (which faces immense competition from well, every other speed control). Prim sea is still decent cause of the greater phys bulk over registeel without taking up arc slot.
:giratina: add bounce it’s not bad better then prank/regen prolly.
 
since I may have helped popularize this, so...
:buzzwole: UR -> B-
Countering two of the best mons in the tier (Ashgren and MChomp) is quite the achievment. I would place it higher but IDK.
Idk fc buzz prolly has a niche but b- seems too high for a relatively unproven mon (ignore that I nommed iron hands for b- too). C seems like a good ranking
Also
:Palkia-Origin: B- ———> B
Palkia is legitimately dangerous given how it only has like 1.5 big counters the all of which are relatively exploitable with some nice building. It also finds use as a way to sit on common knock off users while still being resilient towards passive damage with mg, only competing with Tina (shitmon), dialga (running av/wandering spirit typically) and arceus ghost. Speed boost out offenses a lot of stuff and still sits on non mortal/ salt cure regenvests. It also has the most imp damage in the tier haha, imp can’t even slow pivot into speed boost well.
:Blacephalon: C———>B-
Consistent removal is not extremely hard to find and the offensive checks are easily teched for given how fc maud is basically your best or second best improof method
gira-o is just a worse version of -a which is already kinda bad
victini doesn't wall anything.
I don’t think I would characterize gira o as the same as gira a (outside of bounce, not sure why that’s there), gira a runs straight bulky utility better, while gira o runs more offensive sets like simple better, it’s basically eBay arc ghost for when you wanna run another arc form with the nice bonus of being bulkier. Final gambit is also really fat, letting it ohko base 150s on the hp scale and ting with slight chip. Victini has a slim niche of lucario mega + unnecro check.
Also
:altaria-mega: D———>UR
There are better pretend gren checks (fuck that Mon) that don’t lose to nearly everything possible as mega chomp just clicks hlr at you and you still risk sunsteel.
 
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Reshiram (F) @ Draco Plate
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Judgment
- Shore Up
- Clangorous Soul

idk what rank, but higher then rn. hits hard, lord help you if they are under sun when they click flare, one clang gives you enough bulk, speed and offense to kill pretty much anything. it's also improof.

:Reshiram: <--underused
 
Reshiram (F) @ Draco Plate
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Judgment
- Shore Up
- Clangorous Soul

idk what rank, but higher then rn. hits hard, lord help you if they are under sun when they click flare, one clang gives you enough bulk, speed and offense to kill pretty much anything. it's also improof.

:Reshiram: <--underused
Reshiram could be underrated perhaps but as rightclicker said if you run mono spa resh you miss out on funny mixed deso vc and stuff which helps you not get walled by maud and such
Also why is :slowbro-mega: listed as part of regenvests
What’s the purpose.
 
Reshiram could be underrated perhaps but as rightclicker said if you run mono spa resh you miss out on funny mixed deso vc and stuff which helps you not get walled by maud and such
Also why is :slowbro-mega: listed as part of regenvests
What’s the purpose.
remmant of early fulldex meta i think (but tbh even back in that meta miraidon was everywhere so whats the point)
 
true, but you spend moveslots and crap running mixed, when you could just run special and free up some space
Not really, deso vc growth dragon move sap is the same set as that it just hits both ends
Zam is the fastest relevant mon and practically can break anything in theory by getting every right predict as pretty much every psychic resist is getting blasted by a coverage move.
The problem I find with zam imo is it’s so generally neutral that it barely breaks anything and has a very intense prediction reliance which means stuff like registeel can generally pivot around, ash ninja is fair tho that mon dumb asl
 
:iron hands: UR ———> C/D (Fur Coat)
Did some light testing, this mon feels very fine, excellent physical bulk (+Def is 20% bulkier than +Spe Arc) and a very good typing for a FC mon. Dark resist is key to force Ashninja to Surging which is punishable by Helmet, SpD is also good enough to eat Frost Breath. Electric resist is also incredibly helpful against Electro Drifts. On top of that Rocks resist is always good and also obviously cannot get sapblocked by bliss. Only main issue is obv chomp.
Beedrill doesn’t exist in a vacuum I.e the mons you mentioned (ghostceus and Etern) are fairly easy to tech for esp considering you’re typically pairing it with another phys attacker like chomp or greninja. Mosa also lacks stab poison moves and has to go outa its way to run d ascent. M zam part is fair tho.
The problem here is that stuff like Ghostceus and Etern are very easily not the FC mon and thus Bee isn't very pressuring the FC if it wasn't the FC checking it in the first place. Also another issue idt I mentioned before is rocks weakness on a pivot that wants to be in as much as possible, aka same issue as blace.
Mega pert only takes mildly more percent then smth like mega audino and the defensive dragon types are fairly mid rn (mostly because of getting blown past by offensive dragons, which pert doesn’t entirely.)
If you just ran ".bulk" you would realize that maud has 12% more bulk than pert on both spectrums, and consider how maud is already barely surviving certain key hits. Gren obv just ohkos with FTrick, Band Chomp 2hkos 50% after rocks (yes even with resist rocks), mold korai always 2hkos. The loss in bulk means you have to heal way more often to remain above a 2hko threshold even against weaker stuff like luke which means you aren't much less passive than like aud. The part on checking hooh with a dragon was meaning that you can just do it with a dragon, not requiring fc bc etern and mirai both check offensive hooh with their offensive utility sets.
spdef sets job isn’t really to wall m zam flutter more it is to have a backbone vs Etern and miraidon.
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Swampert-Mega: 156-185 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
shaky check considering its one of the few mons it can try to check, scales obv is fake. When you compare it to another utility av like pogre it just doesn't match up at all when pogre sponges specs moves better and is a better spinner because it pressures steela more. Considering that pogre is solidly in B doesn't make much sense to have pert in the same tier.
It retaliates with like, knock off at best (scald isn’t too consistent). This is also taking the arc slot for smth that can be done pretty much better by the above mega pert.
Outspeeds most of what it needs to check so between TH and Sap it should be able to handle stuff if not neutralize them for the timebeing. The Arc slot is also not that valuable when none of the arcs are exceptional.
remove regen imo, all it maybe does is some speed control (which faces immense competition from well, every other speed control). Prim sea is still decent cause of the greater phys bulk over registeel without taking up arc slot.
I've seen some use of scarf recently and it seems completely fine. There is very few viable alternatives that outspeed zam, trick forces more linear responses than you would expect.
So the issue here is that you don't really counter gren when frost breath 2hkos bc unlike say iron hands the spd is atrocious, the same spd causes issues against luke and chomp's edrifts and obv you don't have the sunsteel resist either. Don't think its completely unviable but its definitely not very good.
:Palkia-Origin: B- ———> B
Palkia is legitimately dangerous given how it only has like 1.5 big counters the all of which are relatively exploitable with some nice building. It also finds use as a way to sit on common knock off users while still being resilient towards passive damage with mg, only competing with Tina (shitmon), dialga (running av/wandering spirit typically) and arceus ghost. Speed boost out offenses a lot of stuff and still sits on non mortal/ salt cure regenvests. It also has the most imp damage in the tier haha, imp can’t even slow pivot into speed boost well.
the biggest issue with palk is without speed boost you get rked by like everything faster (which teams should/will have) and with speed boost it becomes rather vulnerable to mortal/salt both of which cripple its ability to damage with dragon energy bc a lot of palks power depends on being able to denergy at full. Also don't get where this 1.5 number is coming from when most common scales have a way to neutralize it.
:Blacephalon: C———>B-
fitting consistent removal is, at least personally, going to mean giving up some other stuff in a teambuilding meta where role compression is as important as ever. thus it doesn't very feel worth at all to sacrifice certain key aspects to support a mon that isn't that threatening when you compare it to all the big boy breakers in b+ and above. The other thing that needs to be noted is that having to remove means likely losing turns which is against what blace attempts to do which is apply rapid amounts of pressure within a quick period because it doesn't have that much burst power and also has a variety of soft checks that it needs to chip all of them into range of.
252 SpA Draco Plate Reshiram Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD Reshiram: 204-242 (28.9 - 34.3%) -- 4.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Reshiram Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Reshiram: 85-100 (21 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
so you aren't very selfproof anyways when they can just engage in setup war, pp stall, fish for crits, obv if plate gets knocked then its completely imp bait (so at this point highly questioning why not use something like lunala). Even with a mixed set with vc vulnerable to getting trolled by fc fairies as well as abusing vc drops. The realest 2 resh sets are probably desoland and mg but even then extremely slow compared to other dragons and with no satisfactory way of boosting speed its very dubious.
Also why is :slowbro-mega: listed as part of regenvests
What’s the purpose.
old meta would be scout mixed psychics bc natural typing lets it act as a decent check to mmx anyways, later probably as a utility regenvest that can scout select physical stuff choice lock without losing momentum. but also because the entire resources is old.
The problem I find with zam imo is it’s so generally neutral that it barely breaks anything and has a very intense prediction reliance which means stuff like registeel can generally pivot around, ash ninja is fair tho that mon dumb asl
??
specs boost straight up ohkos stuff like maud and arc? prediction reliant is also less of an issue when it outspeeds everything == more opportunities and when the prediction wrong results in disaster for defender in cases like SE Flare or Fleur. Moongeist is also deceptively spammable when it 2hkos like everything (flutters is 24% stronger for comparison)
 
All Resources have been updated, the VR also now links to the analyses for each Pokemon. Samples should also be updated soon on the main thread.

I think most VR changes were already explained by a nom in one of the previous posts. If you have any questions regarding why a mon got moved what a mon does etc feel free to post here or ask in the BH channel on discord (faster)
 
:giratina-origin: D -> UR
Can someone explain... what this does that isnt outclassed by something else?

Simple is outclassed by ghostceus and lunala

Magic Guard is outclassed by a ton of spa dragons (etern, palkia-o)

Magic Bounce is outclassed by... anything with better defense
 
:giratina-origin: D -> UR
Can someone explain... what this does that isnt outclassed by something else?

Simple is outclassed by ghostceus and lunala

Magic Guard is outclassed by a ton of spa dragons (etern, palkia-o)

Magic Bounce is outclassed by... anything with better defense

simple is usable when you have no arc slot (and has more HP for gambit shenanigans)

mg and bounce both serve as giratina with more offenses
 
simple is usable when you have no arc slot (and has more HP for gambit shenanigans)

mg and bounce both serve as giratina with more offenses
Simple is aight
Genuinely why would you need giratina but sacking bulk that mon is ass you don’t need it frailer
Mg does seem alright as a bulky knock absorber bounce just seems bad.
Also
:Altaria-mega: D ———> UR
Why would I select this over any other bulky dragon or fairy
As a fc fairy type being weak to the fucking frogs frost breath is terrible, as a dragon it gets outclassed by others like miraidon because it’s fairy resistances aren’t that special (luc still kos, chomp does everything, u turn users are still damaging)
:metagross-mega: D ———> UR
Frailer, speed tier doesn’t do anything, can’t even final gambit cause of hp, who the fuck uses this.
:magearna: C———>UR
This feels a lil outclassed by other steels, doesn’t do anything
:arceus: C———> D
Not horrid per se but I would rather have the 4 other spdef normals (yes even base chansey) then an arceus form that gets resisted by common mons and more importantly can’t run plate (I.e needs another knock absorber on team)
:Arceus-poison: C———>UR
I don’t understand this mon whatsoever, it has such an awkward defensive type given m chomps presence, don’t even get any special resistances compared to something like iron hands.
 
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VR noms that are probably a bit too early for post ompl meta

:greninja-ash: A -> A- (or lower in A rank)
People have been bringing counters to this so hard it's only appeared in 1/20 games so far. I feel that meta developments so far such as the rise of FC fairies have not been well for the ninja froge.

:garchomp-mega: B+ -> B
The increased amount of FC fairies completely shuts down the setup set, and the band set isn't doing so hot either.

:celesteela: B+ -> A-
This thing is honestly just straight nutty in how good it is defensively. Top 2 almost every week, should show how good it is. Checks a ton of meta things.

:slowbro-mega: B -> B-
I still don't get what this thing does compared to other FC waters. Feels a bit too passive.
(also regen set is still listed despite it being a relic of early fulldex)
 
VR noms that are probably a bit too early for post ompl meta

:greninja-ash: A -> A- (or lower in A rank)
People have been bringing counters to this so hard it's only appeared in 1/20 games so far. I feel that meta developments so far such as the rise of FC fairies have not been well for the ninja froge.

:garchomp-mega: B+ -> B
The increased amount of FC fairies completely shuts down the setup set, and the band set isn't doing so hot either.

:celesteela: B+ -> A-
This thing is honestly just straight nutty in how good it is defensively. Top 2 almost every week, should show how good it is. Checks a ton of meta things.

:slowbro-mega: B -> B-
I still don't get what this thing does compared to other FC waters. Feels a bit too passive.
(also regen set is still listed despite it being a relic of early fulldex)
:greninja:
The simple fact that it’s dumbass forces the meta around it like that is very good in its own right, it’s also developed knock so say goodbye to the only good counterplay before it switches out [helmet] (can u tell I despise this Pokémon and think it’s totally dumb as fuck)
:garchomp-mega:
I wouldn’t say the setup variant is completely shut off, potential to run blades is strong because of stuff like helmet and bulwark which means that (iirc) fc fairies have to choose between hitting sap/topsy and hitting a fairy move, sapblockers can also wither away strength sap mons like arceus and zacian with good play and/or mus. If anything this guy has gotten better because ground weak fur coats are more prevalent like iron hands and elec arc. I also have no idea where “band set isn’t doing too hot” is coming from.
:celesteela: B———>B/B-
Gotta disagree, steela doesn’t actually check that much besides chomp (needs fur coat to survive two Glaives). It gets annoyed at defensive mons utility often and the only mortal it’s blocking over competition like registeel solg and dial is mega swampert. Goes down honestly.
:slowbro-mega:
Yeah, the only thing it really does defensively is check mega luc and chomp (both very short term, particularly because it has u turn weakness). Chomp mu also has to risk no elec move, checking unecro isn’t hugely special when other mons such as ting and solg do it better, huge ash ninja weakness isn’t a help either.
 
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:celesteela: B+ -> A-
This thing is honestly just straight nutty in how good it is defensively. Top 2 almost every week, should show how good it is. Checks a ton of meta things.
I agree with this. Usage and winrate speak for its own tbh. And even though previously, the mon has been nothing more than average in terms of role compression this mon offers has been second to none. As a result its VR placing should rise accordingly.

:Sceptile-Mega: C -> A
I HATE THIS MON. I HATE THIS MON. I HATE THIS MON. I HATE THIS MON.
I genuinely cannot believe that there is a reality in balanced hackmons where sceptile-mega can be anywhere near A. "Touted" for its dragon's maw set in ndbh a long long time ago, the mon has finally become what another initially thought it was... It's mglo set has been incredibly effective this OMPL, allowing it to do very large amounts of damage to many of the spdef walls in the metagame. Its speed tier is second to none, noticeably being a very anti-meta pokemon to Eternatus. Since its introduction, I feel as though this mon has become meta, impacting the offensive speed tiers, and bringing ground spdef viability down. It additionally has an extra moveslot to tech past its choice of mons, thus justifying a potentially historic rise to A.

:Lopunny-Mega: UR -> B-
Previously unexplored, but now seen a bit of usage in OMPL. It's mglo set can be very effective, and it has a descent speed tier as well to out pace Eternatus. Population Bomb is a very strong move, and in conjunction with swords dance, has the potential to break past some walls. Its incredibly frail stats, weakness to fairy, and pop bomb rng would make it difficult to justify a higher ranking.

:Blissey: B+ --> B
A little nitpicky, but this mon has been teched vs. relatively often in OMPL, making it a very risky bring for a lot of games. It also doesn't have great usage, and I feel as though for the most part many teams have adapted to it. As such a small VR change should be observed accordingly.

:Audino-Mega: A- --> A
It seems as though, Audino-Mega is now the premier spdef wall, and most consistent. It naturally forms a very good core with Celesteela, and is able to check almost every spdef pokemon. While it does take a lot from mglo Etern's shell side arm, it can still check it short term in a pinch. Additionally checks most SNR pokemon. Sometimes tough to build a team without.

:Kyurem-Black: B- --> C
Mon is just not good anymore. Increasing usage of hazard stack, and really poor speed tier leaves a lot to be desires. Choice band SoR teams are less frequently seen lately, because of how difficult it can be to bring this pokemon in safely.

:Meloetta: C --> B
Performs a very similar to Audino-Mega, just a bit worse. It has a very viable niche in that it can more reliably check mglo Etern.

:Necrozma-Ultra: B+ --> A-
Good mon, sflo, mglo, tough claws sets are incredibly potent, and have the ability to rip any team apart. Really difficult mon to prep for. Speed tier leaves a bit to be desired, stopping me from giving it a higher nom.

Besides these, don't see anything that jumps out to me which I think should be changed.
 
:greninja-ash: A -> A- (or lower in A rank)
People have been bringing counters to this so hard it's only appeared in 1/20 games so far. I feel that meta developments so far such as the rise of FC fairies have not been well for the ninja froge.
yknow i find it funny that this guy being broken leads to people running hard counters into it not even being that broken anymore

also, here's a controversial nom:

:alakazam-mega: A -> A-
personally, it feels like this mon either does everything and is impossible to wall or just run into a sturdier spdef and does 0 progress tbh. psystrike can goob blissey but people are starting to realize blissey isn't immortal and are starting to adapt to it (secret swords, ssa, or just hitting it really fucking hard like sceptile mandating it to stay in instead of pivoting out else it loses the second time), 4mss (psycho and choose between psystrike, bflare, fleur, moongeist, and trick) and competition with ultra necrozma (good mon rank it higher btw) doesn't help. sometimes using zam feels like you're just using it to scare out something fast like etern into getting hard walled regardless.
 
:iron hands: D———>B-
Some fat bias here but iron hands is very good because it’s physical defense capabilities vs a whole bevy of the metagame such as gren, blaz, and lucario is insanely good to have on a team and 140 attack t kick is a rly good tool too, obviously you have chomp weakness however since steela is *APPARENTLY* so good and it forms a great core with ghostceus (more so the latter) it’s not an incredibly hard weakness to circumvent
B at best I’m ngl people need to get over scales groundceus and start using actually good scales users like ho oh and then this mu fish asf mon won’t be as good
There’s some potential here but I’m ngl B- sounds too much for something not proven that much
Agree with pretty much every other nom.
 
:lopunny-mega: bunny is fine in b-. ive used mglo taunt 3atks extensively on ladder and i think its the premier set, if you run sd then there's a much larger risk of imposter snowballing you while the reward is inconsistent due to population bomb's nature. with taunt you can get away with a softer imposter-proofing complex involving multiple half-measures and beyond that revenge killers like pixilate fairyceus.

anyway, i personally didn't find population bomb's inconsistency to be that big a deal in practice. the idea of taunt lopunny is to come in on a passive mon that can't really touch it (bonus points if its something you can hjk into the shadow realm) then go for popbomb as many times as you need to in order to get the dub. note that this also isn't a mega sceptile situation where you need to stay at 10000% all the time otherwise your primary stab fucking sucks and you're miserable forever HOLY fuck why was this guy nommed to a

:sceptile-mega: fuck this pokemon. someone needs to innovate nasty plot on him or some shit i am sick of this. you're grounded. go to d rank

:alakazam-mega: same for this guy. if the opponent has so much as stone axe you'll be like constantly slightly behind in the game and eventually lose, but it looks like you didn't lose by that much which is why everyone loves this mon. i don't think it's ever actually won a game

:necrozma-ultra: i cant take this guy seriously every time i see someone make an sflo set with him and its always 4 raggedy ass unstabbed inaccurate moves and the team also autoloses to like psea melmetal or lunala or some shit. i *guess* the results are there with mg, the more respectable of this guy's two sets, but even that one is rly high maintenance with dragon energy, it gets a pass over scept for being slightly harder to wall though

:miraidon: can we talk about this guy. whats his deal. what is even the set right now. theres some truly frightening things with like fc draco plate cage leech seed judgment take heart or something, its chill, no one is using steelix or mg bliss right now

ogerpon-hearthflame.png.m.1716648629
d rank pretty please thank you. do more to imposter, still ohko everything you want to, easier to imposter-proof both offensively and defensively (i used regen etern on the ompl team which worked super well despite the set having glance), grass stab for threatening out kyogre and the frog

:celesteela: rise. spike immune mortal immune is invaluable especially considering the vast majority of mortal users aren't meaningfully threatening this unless you get your vest knocked or they're a vcreate user (which, vcreate mortal is a meme cause of wbb steela killing you). yes this mon will let you down into actual wallbreakers but thats why you just go to your fc/scales boots guy and rack up hazard damage until they die. very strong mon on a very strong playstyle. sd speed boost is also real

:greninja-ash: why the hell is this guy ranked 2nd overall. dont get me wrong its an annoying mon, but its incredibly one dimensional and everyone knows what beats this by now. you load into an fc you cant sapblock and are immediately like what am i actually doing here. can supposedly tech around counters with frost breath or electro drift or whatever but even if your genius 200 iq tech hits you still have to contend with the fact that you're using a toddler structure to support this mon with a no-doubt-inconsistent spinner and sapblocker so it's likely the opponent will have a chance anyway

:audino-mega: could rise, but i think its also fine in a-. very passive and can often just fail to cover shit, see me vs tttech and aerobee vs tttech, both times fc audino carries the wrong move and loses to the physical sweeper. scales is no better, getting its recovers stalled out trivially by any cage user

:eternatus: best in the tier after imposter. the standard mg is very good and the mon has an incredibly easy time working around counters with sets like np secret sword, taunt cage (regen or recover last), earth power, shell side arm, spikes, taunt, etc. also imposter isn't an answer from like 60% down, you have enough resistances and bulk that you can actually switch into stuff, makes a great defensive core w celesteela for example.
 
First time noms, mostly ability changes/noms and imma be controversial (spare me..) fr.

:Flutter Mane: --> (Flare Boost, Beads of Ruin, Adaptability, Normalize)
yea pretty self explanatory, Flutter Mane should have Normalize as an actual set listed tbh, its a pretty useful ability with its offenses and actual good speed, can be also pretty troublesome for teams to prepare for as it doesnt really have many counters, im not sure if u can have 4 abilities listed but if u cant u could make the case for maybe norm over adapt but maybe thats just me.

:Audino-Mega: --> A (Ice Scales, Fur Coat, Magic Bounce)
Another pretty explanatory mon, this is legit the best special wall/ the most reliable one we have xd, checks like so much stuff, while it can be a bit frail at times and does have it faults with being outpaced and broken through, building with this thing on the team/ in mind is almost a must i feel nowadays as it checks so much of the meta, as for abilities, what does Magic bounce actually do tho??, like who even runs it at this point, like sure it does help in some situations with status's and hazards, but most of the times this ability will not be helping much and i think the furscales combo is the only actual abilities that Audino should run nowadays maybe regen fr..

:Arceus-Ground: --> B
Hot take but i think this mon isnt that good imo, like what does it actually check thats semi revelant/ and whats the point of wasting ur arc slot on it to just check smt when u can use smt else, it also loses to stuff like Mega Sceptile and has issues with being sapblocked, more than other arc-forms like fairy i feel, and or just walled by general/common sets in the meta rn, also if relevant this thing isnt being used much in ompl currently, no usage in week 6 and only 1 usage in the prior 2 weeks

:Blissey: --> B (Magic Guard, Regenerator, Ice Scales)
while blissey is a great wall and checks stuff like Mega Scept not running hjk Most Flutter Mane, most th arc forms, and more, this thing is just being teched for alot, Every Spa attacker has a lot of ways to deal with this thing i feel, the obvious one is Psystrike that completely delete's this thing and is not that uncommon (on like alakazam-m, Flutter mane, defensive Lunala, and Gardevoir-M) Eternatus also runs shell side arm sometimes for this thing, and Mega Sceptile can run Hjk for it. Oh and i think that Ice Scales should be a third option mention for this thing as it just makes this thing unkillable specially lmao and reduces Secret sword and Psystrike damage

:Sceptile-Mega: --> B
Speaking of Mega Sceptile, yea im a big fan of this Pokemon tbh, its kind of a mu fish however but this things faster than other Mglo users like Eternatus, has great coverage with stab denergy and Chloro, and can be a bit versatile for the last moveslot at times depending on team structure, being able to run Stone Axe usually, but other options like Healing and HJK arent bad aswell, as for the things downsides, it does have pretty common checks in Mega Audino, and Blissey when not running coverage, it also has the fault of being pp stalled as both of stabs have low pp which can be pretty huge in a long drawn out match, but u can make this thing be top tier with the right amount of support.

:Iron Hands: ---> B-
In reality this mons probably high C+ or smt but didnt want to disrespect him in C, anyways this thing does a pretty valuable niche in walling Greninja-A, as well as Blaziken, Koraidon, and Luc, pretty much any physical attacker not named Garchomp lmao, thing is tho this mon sometimes feels like a do-nothing and just sits on the field, tkick and mortal can be useful but are just omega walled by cloak, and it besides walling most physical attackers just fails at breaking/doing anything else against most defensive mons or being threatened out by special attackers, most of these points however can be dealt with by teammates so it does make it manageable.

:Necrozma-ultra: ---> A-/A (Sheer Force, Magic Guard, Adaptability)
Can someone like explore this mon, please and ty, everytime i see him its just the fucking luster purge blue flare bolt strike magical/order up, like be original fr, anyways yea this mons a demon sometimes its checks are like not common at all so in most mu's u can fully utilize it without having to worry abt smt like psea registeel, however it can also be a pain to improof sometimes. Speaking of Abilities, Magic Guard deserves a nom as its actually good :wow:, dnergy bolt luster lets it break p much anything, besides like scales arc forms which do still not like to switch into Luster, and it can pretty much run anything as a last slot may that be healing or coverage, however the actual problem with this mon is like how do u actually wall it completely, for this set u can wall it with like av ting, but that still isnt even a improof bec denergy with chip has a chance to 2hko, and magical torque does almost always 2hko, so ur forced to run some niche stuff. Yea uh this mons bonkers and needs to be explored remove maybe like adapt from it tho and use sniper even tho thats techinically not wallable

:Dondozo: ---> B- (Fur Coat, Prankster)
Call me crazy but this mons not that bad of a wall actually, 150/115 can be crazy with Fc, letting it wall Ash-Gren (unless mildy chipped then u cant switch into it), Setup Chomp (just outpace with sap), Band (with bolt)/ non-electric coverage Mega Lucario, Koraidon, any pretty much any other physical attacker that doesnt have electric coverage, usually runs hbd so it cant be chipped by hazards making it a pretty good spinner needed, can also run cloak with stuff like salt cure and mortal, also versatile enough to run stuff like Spikes, Sap, Knock, Healing, Tidy up, etc. As for abilities, this mon can utilize pster pretty well with stuff like Tidy up Recover Flip coverage/utility, was used against me in omfl aswell by dragonillis

:Palkia-Origin: --> C
Is this mon even real like u dont even really see it now, its been used twice in ompl, week 1 and week 5, and has 0% wr, hell iirc the only set of this thing ive seen in omfl is Fur coat lmao. The Speedboost sets are walled by most scales stuff like Aud, it can have trouble against sapblockers if not running recover, its damage output is nearly not it sometimes, and it does need a whole lot of support sometimes. While being useful on some mu's it nearly doesnt justify using it in most cases imoimo.

oh and small thing if it is sorted within the ranks :eternatus: should be top of A ahead of :greninja-ash:

and final nom
:Celesteela: --> A- (Fur Coat, Regenerator, Primordial Sea)
While this mon is actually kind of a fraud with no defenses we gotta put respect on its name, its pretty much the staple physical defensive wall, being able to wall Ash-Greninja, Mega Chomp, and most tidy up arc-forms, and some th ones if played correctly. its had pretty great tour usage so far and with a decent wr if that matter. As for abilities, think p much everyone can agree that fc is more commonly used and is the better of the two good abilities in regen for the aforementioned walling aspects and being able to use utility moves like spikes and sap (or another healing move) if needed

ACTUALLY FINAL NOM FR :CHANSEY: TO A, IMP SUCKS WOOO
 
First time noms, mostly ability changes/noms and imma be controversial (spare me..) fr.

:Flutter Mane: --> (Flare Boost, Beads of Ruin, Adaptability, Normalize)
yea pretty self explanatory, Flutter Mane should have Normalize as an actual set listed tbh, its a pretty useful ability with its offenses and actual good speed, can be also pretty troublesome for teams to prepare for as it doesnt really have many counters, im not sure if u can have 4 abilities listed but if u cant u could make the case for maybe norm over adapt but maybe thats just me.

:Audino-Mega: --> A (Ice Scales, Fur Coat, Magic Bounce)
Another pretty explanatory mon, this is legit the best special wall/ the most reliable one we have xd, checks like so much stuff, while it can be a bit frail at times and does have it faults with being outpaced and broken through, building with this thing on the team/ in mind is almost a must i feel nowadays as it checks so much of the meta, as for abilities, what does Magic bounce actually do tho??, like who even runs it at this point, like sure it does help in some situations with status's and hazards, but most of the times this ability will not be helping much and i think the furscales combo is the only actual abilities that Audino should run nowadays maybe regen fr..

:Arceus-Ground: --> B
Hot take but i think this mon isnt that good imo, like what does it actually check thats semi revelant/ and whats the point of wasting ur arc slot on it to just check smt when u can use smt else, it also loses to stuff like Mega Sceptile and has issues with being sapblocked, more than other arc-forms like fairy i feel, and or just walled by general/common sets in the meta rn, also if relevant this thing isnt being used much in ompl currently, no usage in week 6 and only 1 usage in the prior 2 weeks

:Blissey: --> B (Magic Guard, Regenerator, Ice Scales)
while blissey is a great wall and checks stuff like Mega Scept not running hjk Most Flutter Mane, most th arc forms, and more, this thing is just being teched for alot, Every Spa attacker has a lot of ways to deal with this thing i feel, the obvious one is Psystrike that completely delete's this thing and is not that uncommon (on like alakazam-m, Flutter mane, defensive Lunala, and Gardevoir-M) Eternatus also runs shell side arm sometimes for this thing, and Mega Sceptile can run Hjk for it. Oh and i think that Ice Scales should be a third option mention for this thing as it just makes this thing unkillable specially lmao and reduces Secret sword and Psystrike damage

:Sceptile-Mega: --> B
Speaking of Mega Sceptile, yea im a big fan of this Pokemon tbh, its kind of a mu fish however but this things faster than other Mglo users like Eternatus, has great coverage with stab denergy and Chloro, and can be a bit versatile for the last moveslot at times depending on team structure, being able to run Stone Axe usually, but other options like Healing and HJK arent bad aswell, as for the things downsides, it does have pretty common checks in Mega Audino, and Blissey when not running coverage, it also has the fault of being pp stalled as both of stabs have low pp which can be pretty huge in a long drawn out match, but u can make this thing be top tier with the right amount of support.

:Iron Hands: ---> B-
In reality this mons probably high C+ or smt but didnt want to disrespect him in C, anyways this thing does a pretty valuable niche in walling Greninja-A, as well as Blaziken, Koraidon, and Luc, pretty much any physical attacker not named Garchomp lmao, thing is tho this mon sometimes feels like a do-nothing and just sits on the field, tkick and mortal can be useful but are just omega walled by cloak, and it besides walling most physical attackers just fails at breaking/doing anything else against most defensive mons or being threatened out by special attackers, most of these points however can be dealt with by teammates so it does make it manageable.

:Necrozma-ultra: ---> A-/A (Sheer Force, Magic Guard, Adaptability)
Can someone like explore this mon, please and ty, everytime i see him its just the fucking luster purge blue flare bolt strike magical/order up, like be original fr, anyways yea this mons a demon sometimes its checks are like not common at all so in most mu's u can fully utilize it without having to worry abt smt like psea registeel, however it can also be a pain to improof sometimes. Speaking of Abilities, Magic Guard deserves a nom as its actually good :wow:, dnergy bolt luster lets it break p much anything, besides like scales arc forms which do still not like to switch into Luster, and it can pretty much run anything as a last slot may that be healing or coverage, however the actual problem with this mon is like how do u actually wall it completely, for this set u can wall it with like av ting, but that still isnt even a improof bec denergy with chip has a chance to 2hko, and magical torque does almost always 2hko, so ur forced to run some niche stuff. Yea uh this mons bonkers and needs to be explored remove maybe like adapt from it tho and use sniper even tho thats techinically not wallable

:Dondozo: ---> B- (Fur Coat, Prankster)
Call me crazy but this mons not that bad of a wall actually, 150/115 can be crazy with Fc, letting it wall Ash-Gren (unless mildy chipped then u cant switch into it), Setup Chomp (just outpace with sap), Band (with bolt)/ non-electric coverage Mega Lucario, Koraidon, any pretty much any other physical attacker that doesnt have electric coverage, usually runs hbd so it cant be chipped by hazards making it a pretty good spinner needed, can also run cloak with stuff like salt cure and mortal, also versatile enough to run stuff like Spikes, Sap, Knock, Healing, Tidy up, etc. As for abilities, this mon can utilize pster pretty well with stuff like Tidy up Recover Flip coverage/utility, was used against me in omfl aswell by dragonillis

:Palkia-Origin: --> C
Is this mon even real like u dont even really see it now, its been used twice in ompl, week 1 and week 5, and has 0% wr, hell iirc the only set of this thing ive seen in omfl is Fur coat lmao. The Speedboost sets are walled by most scales stuff like Aud, it can have trouble against sapblockers if not running recover, its damage output is nearly not it sometimes, and it does need a whole lot of support sometimes. While being useful on some mu's it nearly doesnt justify using it in most cases imoimo.

oh and small thing if it is sorted within the ranks :eternatus: should be top of A ahead of :greninja-ash:

and final nom
:Celesteela: --> A- (Fur Coat, Regenerator, Primordial Sea)
While this mon is actually kind of a fraud with no defenses we gotta put respect on its name, its pretty much the staple physical defensive wall, being able to wall Ash-Greninja, Mega Chomp, and most tidy up arc-forms, and some th ones if played correctly. its had pretty great tour usage so far and with a decent wr if that matter. As for abilities, think p much everyone can agree that fc is more commonly used and is the better of the two good abilities in regen for the aforementioned walling aspects and being able to use utility moves like spikes and sap (or another healing move) if needed

ACTUALLY FINAL NOM FR :CHANSEY: TO A, IMP SUCKS WOOO
:flutter-mane: I honestly agree with the normalize addition, as it's one of the best normalizers we have RN due to it being able to actually dish out offense instead of just sitting there doing nothing like a certain low-ladder dragapult set.

:arceus-ground: Arceus-Ground's main purpose is to defensively beat Unec. I still agree with the B nom.

:iron-hands: Yeah, high c+ is correct. This thing's like buzzwole but it actually can defensively check other things.

:ultra-necrozma: Honestly, the amount of damage Ultra Necrozma does is understated, oh my god. This thing is a literal beast.
 
:buzzwole: D———>C (bottom)
More I think about this mon the more it lowkey is good, it has prolly the best mu vs big three phys mons possible (rly walls m chomp, 3hkod by Luca m sunsteel from full, walls ash gren particularly that don’t tech frost breath), u turn and t kick is also good I think. first impression for mega alakazam bait if real
:arceus-steel: UR———D (Primordial Sea)
The more I think abt it this mon lowkey has a good niche, the stats are better then solg and registeel, taking less from stuff like unecro bolt strike and Etern at once. Steel stab is a funny way to mess with spdef fairy types and it can act as a knock absorber if it wants to. It’s also just way less passive then other steels like how arc normal is less passive then other spdef normals
On the mentioned noms
:flutter mane: normalize is good yeah, it can do mild damage and the ability to bluff adapt stuff rn has potential cause you can trap like non teleport Maudino
:arceus-ground:
Yeah arc ground is really rough when big and small special/mixed attackers beat it, it also struggles with sappers unless you’re special which is :trode:
:palkia-Origin:
Sort of an mu fish yes but common spdefs can’t exceptionally handle it long term bar like Maudino and blissey has also fallen off
:chansey:
Base chansey is lowkey not bad and better when your imp doesn’t need evio which isn’t insanely uncommon, c rank.
:necrozma-ultra: A- (typed as necrozma-ultra)
Yeah this rises, adaptability is probably second best just cause you have the biggest raw buttons possible
:sceptile-mega:
Stop noming this Garbo up it does nothing into spdefs that aren’t groundceus and pert I’d pick literally any other viable speed control other than this.
:celesteela:
Still eh, steela doesn’t actually block that much more mortal then competition like dialga. regenvest is also its best set.
 
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:Necrozma-Ultra: B+→A-

Can be difficult to consistently wall—especially SFLO sets. Usually calls for a Scales M-Aud/Fairyceus set (which I have teched Gunk Shot for), FC Lunala/Ghostceus, or PrimSea Steel-types such as Celesteela, Steelceus, or Melmetal to deal with. All of those, aside from the aforementioned fairies, have trouble coming in on Specs DragMaw sets. Can also run MGLO, Tough Claws/SoR as well as Adaptability and SF. Would add MGuard, TC, and SoR (keeping SF bolded) to the list at the very least even if you disagree with the ranking.

:Alakazam-Mega: A→A-

Very good mon, but it's a bit overrated. Great SpA and excellent Spe tier which make for a good glass cannon, but I'm always underwhelmed by it. Most Scales mons can sponge its attacks. It has Psystrike for RegenVesters, but it doesn't do anything if the RegenVest in question is Celesteela or Dia-O (though it can Blue Flare or Volt Switch on the former). Takes 6,000 from U-turn, so in a pinch, you still generally don't want to stay in on it. Outruns just about everything and threatens a lot of RKs, so it's still plenty viable.

:Arceus-Fairy::Audino-Mega: A-→A

They function quite differently, but I'm still going to lump them together just because I don't feel like splitting them. Both are fantastic options on either side of the defenses since Fairy is just a great defensive type. Both do very well against Ash-Gren, M-Chomp, most setup Ghostceus, Necro-U, and MGLO Koraidon. The latter has consistently worked well as a ghost sponge to the likes of Flutter Mane, Spectrier, NP Ghostceus, and Lunala. The former is a good blanket check to the offensive dragons aside from Chain/SSA Etern or MGLO Dia-O. Former also has had good results with its standard TH/TCage/Sap/Fairy move set. Tidy Up + Magical Torque probably also can do something. Kind of would like to see more offensive Fairyceus sets pop up.

:Arceus-Ghost: A→A-

Still quite a good Arc variant. Works well as both an FC wall that doubles as a setup win-con. SNR also works well as a late-game sweeper. For one, I think the latter has a bit of 4MSS. Wants to hit M-Aud/Fairyceus with Gunk Shot, Dia-O/Blobs/Ting-Lu/Darkceus with fighting coverage. Setup FC has a bit of the same issue. I haven't been too impressed with this mon's performance since post-PFD + DLC; the re-intro of Topsy-Turvy, sturdier Scales options, and M-Aud doesn't help its case. Still plenty viable, though. I just would not, under any circumstance, use this as your sole FC teammate. This was kind of true pre-PFD, but I'd say it's definitely the case now.

:Flutter Mane: A-→B+

If not the very back of A-. Similar case to Ghostceus except its attack is too low for it to use mixed coverage options like Gunk Shot, CCourse/Trarrows. Scales M-Aud kind of sits on this forever as well as MGuard/Regen Blissey. Haven't been too impressed with this mon's performance lately. I can still see a case made for it to just barely hang on to A-, though. Outruns Ash-Gren, Etern, Necro-U, and goes toe-to-toe with Miraidon and threatens RKs on all. Moongeist, especially on Adapt/SoR sets, can still be very scary if you can severely weaken, cripple, or remove M-Aud/Blissey. Would agree with the poster above that Normalize should also be added even though I don't recommend it since every serious team has some kind of answer to it. Not sure whether Pixilate would still be worth adding...probably not. Could be wrong, but I would also bold Adapt over Flare Boost. Haven't been too impressed with the latter lately.

:Celesteela: B+→A-

Seems to have good results lately. A fantastic RegenVester with fantastic defensive typing. Immune to Spikes. Can threaten burns via Beak Blast on both FC and RegenVest while also getting good damage from it due to STAB. The main thing keeping me from putting it in A is that it's kinda ass against TH Arceus variants unless you tech Clear Smog or Circle Throw/D-tail, which is not ideal. Would possibly add PrimSea, Prankster, and/or maybe Magic Bounce to the list of abilities.

:Slowbro-Mega: B→B-

Terrible into Ash-Gren. Decent into most M-Chomp, M-Blaziken, Kyu-B, and M-Luc variants, but you still must pray that those don't randomly run E-Drift + TC and you get 2HKO'd. Would also probably be a lot better if it was pure Water-type or something. Still has wonderful natural physical bulk. I think PhysDef MG + Lefties and Regen + FuturePort sets are worth exploring.

:Koraidon:

Fine where it is, but I think I would bold MGuard for the abilities. Not sure I'm the biggest fan of Banded Mold Breaker. I'm open to being proven wrong, though.

:Blaziken-Mega: B-→C

Seems like a "good on paper; mediocre in practice" kind of mon. Middling speed with subpar bulk. Also does not threaten major damage against Imposter, which is typically an attribute of the better breakers. Fighting + Fire is a good offensive type combination, and with the 160 base Atk, the V-Creates against non-resists can really sting. Typically needs some para and/or hazard support and maybe a sap blocker to function well on most teams. Would also bold TC or DesoLand in the abilities. I don't think Tinted is great.

:Dialga-Origin: B-→B

A decent alternative to RegenVest Celesteela. Has slightly more special bulk. It has more SpA, so it can make good use of Doom Desire, Revelation Dance, or Draco Meteor on top of its normal utility moves like Knock Off, Salt Cure, MSpin, Axe, etc. Also slightly better against TH Arceus sets since it resists TCage and since it can run DTail more comfortably. Main issues are the vulnerability to grounds/fighters compared to Steela, the awkwardness of Improofing, and the vulnerability to Spikes. Would still say P-Ogre is a slightly better RegenVester overall.

:Palkia-Origin: B-→C

I have yet to see this mon do much of anything ever since QD was banned. Speed Boost sets are walled by most Scales users. MG is outclassed by MGLO Etern—even with the Knock-absorbing property of it. Maybe TH sets and/or something with like, PrimSea, BoR, or FC are options to explore?

:Sceptile-Mega: C→B

Not the biggest fan of this mon, but I think it deserves a higher rank—especially after OMPL performance. Fantastic speed tier, so it outpaces and threatens KOs against the relevant dragons + Flutter Mane and Ash-Gren. Chloroblast does good damage vs. a lot of neutral targets, especially after a Torch Song or two. Great late-game cleaner. MG/Regen Blissey MU kind of sucks, but you can probably tech HJK/Axe Kick to deal with that. Doesn't enjoy eating a Knock, though. Relies a lot on the LO damage.

:Kyurem-White: C→B-

Or very back of B. It has a lot of similar flaws to M-Blaze. Has middling speed and mediocre bulk. Generally needs Para support or needs to load into slower-paced teams. Main difference for me, though, is the spammability of Boomburst from +SpA Specs variants, especially in the late game. Boomburst kind of tears through a lot of teams and will likely get a kill every time it comes in if the opponent over-relies on Regen-Vest to sponge special attacks. Also has a decent attack stat to make use of Extreme Speed, Explosion, or V-Create. Technically out-damages Tera Ice Fridge Iron Bundle.

:Zacian-Crowned: C→BLACKLIST
Was (partially) exaggerating here. I can kind of see this thing's merits, so it's probably fine where it is. Overwhelms Fairyceus/M-Aud with Sunsteel and doesn't care much about Sap if it's SD. Can do some dragon slaying with MTorque since it outruns all of them. Can probably do something with SD 3A, SD/Sap/STABs, Taunt 3A or something. Maybe move it further back within C.
 
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