Ladder Balanced Hackmons

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Recover
- High Jump Kick

If you want to use magic guard, might as well abuse life orb and recoil. Flare blitz and brave birds are good stabs, recover is recovery, and high jump kick to kill TTars. Also you don't take recoil if you miss.

 

[Orangutan]

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Recover
- High Jump Kick

If you want to use magic guard, might as well abuse life orb and recoil. Flare blitz and brave birds are good stabs, recover is recovery, and high jump kick to kill TTars. Also you don't take recoil if you miss.

thanks :)

 

[Rumors]

You can also run offensive Unaware, which was sort of an uncommon use of it even when Unaware was a big deal. In X/Y, one team of mine had an Unawae Ho-Oh running Sacred Fire, Acrobatics, Roost, and Coil while holding a Sitrus Berry. Acro + Sitrus made it reasonably Imposter-resistant and Ho-Oh was bulky enough to set-up alongside other things at the time. No promises it'd work in the current meta though, just using it as an example.

 

[jackm]

Additionally, a fun Offensive unaware set can consist of taking something decently tanky (we'll use, say, Xerneas) and giving it Unaware+Heart Swap, allowing it to operate not only as a pinch check to a lot of random shit but also as a potent countersweeper. By virtue of its nice typing, Xerneas can easily tank a hit from PH Ogre, Gengar-Mega sans Poison STAB, and others and steal their boosts, leaving your opponent with quite a mess on their hands. Heart Swap/Moonblast/coverage/filler can leave a serious mark in a team at +2/+2, and depending on what your specific move choices are it is relatively easy to imposterproof.

 

[The Immortal]

New discovery: Abilities activate before primal reversion. The game hardcodes Kyogre and Groudon to not activate Drizzle and Drought, respectively. This means you can use Intimidate/Download/etc as a starting ability on your Orb Pokemon. Also, not competitively relevant but, Drought activates on Kyogre and Drizzle activates on Groudon before primal reversion.

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Finally we could nuke something with download v create pdon

+1 252+ Atk Primal Groudon V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina in Harsh Sunshine: 294-347 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and we call that the pdon wall? lol

+1 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 262-309 (52 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

why does v create do more than p blades? :o

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Finally we could nuke something with download v create pdon

+1 252+ Atk Primal Groudon V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina in Harsh Sunshine: 294-347 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and we call that the pdon wall? lol

+1 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 262-309 (52 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

why does v create do more than p blades? :o

It does more because v-create is 1.5 times as strong as Precipiece blades, and sun boosts it an additional 50%. That makes it 2.25 times as strong, then divided by two for resistance.

 

[Rumors]

For reference, this means pre-Reversion usable abilities would be Magic Guard, Illusion, Contrary (for switching into Sticky Web), Competitive, Defiant, Drizzle, Sand Stream, Drought, Snow Warning, Delta Stream, Primordial Sea, Desolate Land, Cloud Nine, Air Lock, Forewarn, Frisk, Intimidate, Levitate, Simple (albeit negatively for switching into Sticky Web), Slow Start, Trace, Unnerve, Aftermath (if you're somehow able to lose all your HP before reverting), Immunity, Imposter, Anticipation, Aura Break, Clear Body, White Smoke, Download, and Synchronize.

Mind, not all of these are useful. Some of them are actually silly (Primordial Sea Red Orb Groudon?). And most of them are only very situationally useful. But... well, hey, why not have an ability that at least does something before you lose it?

To break it down...

I think Magic Guard, Download, Intimidate, Frisk, Forewarn, Levitate, and Trace are the most useful.

Immunity, Competitive, Defiant, Contrary, Synchronize, Clear Body, White Smoke, and Imposter are all situationally useful. Most of these depend on Toxic Spikes or Sticky Web to be present to do anything. Or to switch into Intimidate.

The rest are silly or outclassed, but are listed for completeness' sake.

There might be a few others that could potentially be useful if using Baton Pass. Maybe.

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

I think levitate is useful, that's what I used on my current pdon since it takes little from stealth rocks and avoids sticky web, spikes and toxic spikes. Also levitate worked before this

 

[Lcass4919]

For reference, this means pre-Reversion usable abilities would be Magic Guard, Illusion, Contrary (for switching into Sticky Web), Competitive, Defiant, Drizzle, Sand Stream, Drought, Snow Warning, Delta Stream, Primordial Sea, Desolate Land, Cloud Nine, Air Lock, Forewarn, Frisk, Intimidate, Levitate, Simple (albeit negatively for switching into Sticky Web), Slow Start, Trace, Unnerve, Aftermath (if you're somehow able to lose all your HP before reverting), Immunity, Imposter, Anticipation, Aura Break, Clear Body, White Smoke, Download, and Synchronize.

Mind, not all of these are useful. Some of them are actually silly (Primordial Sea Red Orb Groudon?). And most of them are only very situationally useful. But... well, hey, why not have an ability that at least does something before you lose it?

To break it down...

I think Magic Guard, Download, Intimidate, Frisk, Forewarn, and Trace are the most useful.

Immunity, Competitive, Defiant, Contrary, Levitate, Synchronize, Clear Body, White Smoke, and Imposter are all situationally useful. Most of these depend on Toxic Spikes or Sticky Web to be present to do anything. Or to switch into Intimidate.

The rest are silly or outclassed, but are listed for completeness' sake.

There might be a few others that could potentially be useful if using Baton Pass. Maybe.

synchronize is not one of them, as toxic spikes doesnt activate it. and you aren't in long enough for any status to hit. (and since aftermath has no possible way of being activated, its technically in the same vein)

this change is pretty big, as it either gives don a one turn immunity to "grounded" hazards(levitate is pretty good, as the guy above mentions, it bypasses sticky webs and toxic spikes), total immunity to hazards, potential -1 on a switchin, ability to judge your opponents set without relying on imposter/getting hit, or even a small boost to help break past usual checks like giratina.

 

[Rumors]

Fixed it.

I dunno if I'd call it pretty big, since Megas have been able to do this already by holding their megastone. Although it's still very helpful for Pdon and Pogre, who can't exist without their orbs anymore, unlike Megas who aren't so limited, so I'm not going to claim this is a small thing either. Just, the Primals only really benefit from this since they're mostly banned. If they were still fully legal, we'd simply shrug for the most part after coming up with some niche sets for Desolatedon and Primordialogre.

 

[Lcass4919]

Fixed it.

I dunno if I'd call it pretty big, since Megas have been able to do this already by holding their megastone. Although it's still very helpful for Pdon and Pogre, who can't exist without their orbs anymore, unlike Megas who aren't so limited, so I'm not going to claim this is a small thing either. Just, the Primals only really benefit from this since they're mostly banned. If they were still fully legal, we'd simply shrug for the most part after coming up with some niche sets for Desolatedon and Primordialogre.

i meant big for groudon and ogre specificly and not the meta itself lmao, as even something small like this is just really nice for it. it wont be like...the next mega rayquaza, but the 1 turn can really help in tilting the tide of the battle in dons favor, as you seen, v-create 2hkoing non fur coat giratina can easily change the course of the battle.

 

[bp scrub]

i know this isnt high ladder or anything but damn i love imposter
also im aware that pidgeot sucks

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-311038473

 

[Dededork 649]

Hopefully, no one's mentioned this, but I'm not digging through 130 pages. Fought a guy using an interesting strategy. Normalize Gengar and phazing Manaphy. Changed the Manaphy, and modified the sets a little, but it looks like this

Sets

Steelix-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

Gengar-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Block
- Acupressure
- Entrainment
- Baton Pass

The basic plan is lead with Gengar, use Entrainment, use Block, set up to +6 all, then Baton Pass to Steelix. You'll need checks and counters to Magic Bounce mons, Unaware mons, Heart Swap, and Magic Guard mons though. Thoughts?

 

[tehy]

Here's a better list:

Intimidate, Magic Guard, Download, Levitate, Forewarn, Frisk, Intimidate, Levitate, Slow Start, Immunity, Imposter, and Anticipation. Also, Trace (for scouting the opponent's ability), Contrary / Defiant / Competitive / Clear Body / White Smoke(for switching into Sticky Web), and Simple (albeit negatively for switching into Sticky Web).

I mean, what's the point of changing the weather, only to change it again a second later? And so forth

(Would illusion carry over to primal reversion? slow start?)

(Since immunity is just for T-spikes, why not Magic Guard or Levitate? Magic Guard even takes care of every other type of poison. Still, in case you specifically want a poison immunity, I guess.)

Edit: yep haha I'm bad

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Here's a better list:

Intimidate, Magic Guard, Download, Levitate, Forewarn, Frisk, Intimidate, Levitate, Slow Start, Immunity, Imposter, Anticipation, Download. Also, Trace (for scouting the opponent's ability), Contrary / Defiant / Competitive / Clear Body / White Smoke(for switching into Sticky Web), and Simple (albeit negatively for switching into Sticky Web).

I mean, what's the point of changing the weather, only to change it again a second later? And so forth

(Would illusion carry over to primal reversion? slow start?)

(Since immunity is just for T-spikes, why not Magic Guard or Levitate? Magic Guard even takes care of every other type of poison. Still, in case you specifically want a poison immunity, I guess.)

agic guard doesn't last, so your PDon is still poisoned. Magic Guard does, however, grant an immunity to sr. Otherwise, levitate makes you immune to spikes, sticky web, and TSpikes, making it strictly superior to white immunity. Clear body/white smoke are inferior to contrary, especially since contrary affects intimidate.

 

[Anna says hi]

Summary of abilities on that list:

Intimidate - OK
Magic Guard - Levitate is probably better, as taking 1/16 from Stealth Rock is largely worth negating Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes.
Download - OK
Levitate - OK
Forewarn - Extremely situational, but not outclassed by anything. Use something else.
Frisk - OK
Slow Start - Why would you want this?
Immunity - Outclassed by Levitate.
Imposter - Why are you using Groudon as an Imposter when Chansey does that better? For the Trick immunity? Because you might as well be running imposter Giratina then.
Anticipation - Too situational to be useful. Outclassed by Forewarn, as dumb as that sounds.
Download - You listed this twice.
Trace - OK
Contrary - Extremely situational, use Levitate instead in most cases.
Defiant/Competitive - Download gives more reliable boosts.
White Smoke/Clear Body - Completely outclassed by both Contrary and Levitate.
Simple - This is even worse than Slow Start.

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

Hopefully, no one's mentioned this, but I'm not digging through 130 pages. Fought a guy using an interesting strategy. Normalize Gengar and phazing Manaphy. Changed the Manaphy, and modified the sets a little, but it looks like this

Sets

Steelix-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

Gengar-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Block
- Acupressure
- Entrainment
- Baton Pass

The basic plan is lead with Gengar, use Entrainment, use Block, set up to +6 all, then Baton Pass to Steelix. You'll need checks and counters to Magic Bounce mons, Unaware mons, Heart Swap, and Magic Guard mons though. Thoughts?

Entrainment Gengar is not a new set, nor is it particularly good. Too many Pokemon have Baton Pass/Volt Switch/U-turn/Parting Shot for it to be worthwile, and also the threats you mentioned. Also, Imposter exists and would be a pain to deal with. Additionally, if there are Stealth Rocks set up (or your opponent has -ate FakeSpeed), the Focus Sash doesn't work, rendering the set dead before it can do anything.

(Would illusion carry over to primal reversion? slow start?)

I haven't tried Slow Start but Illusion does not carry over.

Summary of abilities on that list:

Imposter - Why are you using Groudon as an Imposter when Chansey does that better? For the Trick immunity? Because you might as well be running imposter Giratina then.

I don't think this works, because you'd undergo primal revision right after.

 

[Anna says hi]

In that case, why even bother to use Imposter besides seeing if it fails to activate (when you know you have an illusion) when Trace does the exact same thing and even TELLS you what your enemy's ability is?

 

[Lcass4919]

Summary of abilities on that list:

Intimidate - OK
Magic Guard - Levitate is probably better, as taking 1/16 from Stealth Rock is largely worth negating Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes.
Download - OK
Levitate - OK
Forewarn - Extremely situational, but not outclassed by anything. Use something else.
Frisk - OK
Intimidate - OK
Levitate - OK
Slow Start - Why would you want this?
Immunity - Outclassed by Levitate.
Imposter - Why are you using Groudon as an Imposter when Chansey does that better? For the Trick immunity? Because you might as well be running imposter Giratina then.
Anticipation - Too situational to be useful. Outclassed by Forewarn, as dumb as that sounds.
Download - You listed this twice.
Trace - OK
Contrary - Extremely situational, use Levitate instead in most cases.
Defiant/Competitive - Download gives more reliable boosts.
White Smoke/Clear Body - Completely outclassed by both Contrary and Levitate.
Simple - This is even worse than Slow Start.

i think the implication was "moves that have effects before revo"

and just for the people wondering, imposter lets groudon gain the transformations moveset for the turn its in, largely minor, as its only for as long as it stays in (otherwise its mostly useless) but it is a very very very niche way to scout your opponents ENTIRE moveset, even though it practically makes don useless 50% of the time for that first turn.

 

[Rumors]

I mean, what's the point of changing the weather, only to change it again a second later? And so forth

What's the point in running Simple, which you included? :p I was merely being comprehensive with my list, hence the break downs of what I thought might be useful typically and situationally.

 

[tehy]

What's the point in running Simple, which you included? :p I was merely being comprehensive with my list, hence the break downs of what I thought might be useful typically and situationally.

well my man at least simple allows for some insane High Level Strats like TR and Gyro Ball abuse off a sticky web... whoo! bout to get verlisify up in here

nah but seriously, thing is, as terrible as that is, it's still a thing. what does having drizzle do? you activate the weather for a second, then primal weather replaces it. you'd think having the primal weather ability twice would help but so far as I can tell, even if you both lead your primal, the one who underspeeds / loses the speed tie is getting their weather 100%. (Delta Stream might do its thing but neither primal is flying type so there is that.)

edit: Lcass, so you have groudon -> imposter transform -> primal revert into primal groudon? interesting. also is that known to work ingame, or is that just how showdown interprets it because it doesn't know better? still, that's cool.

Question: you're carrying illusion, you lead groudon and opp. leads imposter chansey. what happens?

 

[Lcass4919]

well my man at least simple allows for some insane High Level Strats like TR and Gyro Ball abuse off a sticky web... whoo! bout to get verlisify up in here

nah but seriously, thing is, as terrible as that is, it's still a thing. what does having drizzle do? you activate the weather for a second, then primal weather replaces it. you'd think having the primal weather ability twice would help but so far as I can tell, even if you both lead your primal, the one who underspeeds / loses the speed tie is getting their weather 100%. (Delta Stream might do its thing but neither primal is flying type so there is that.)

edit: Lcass, so you have groudon -> imposter transform -> primal revert into primal groudon? interesting. also is that known to work ingame, or is that just how showdown interprets it because it doesn't know better? still, that's cool.

Question: you're carrying illusion, you lead groudon and opp. leads imposter chansey. what happens?

yes, thats how it works "in game" as its been tested iirc. no guarentees though.

id imagine illusion would repel imposter for that turn, as "switchin" abilities all activate, THEN reversion happens (from what we have seen)

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

id imagine illusion would repel imposter for that turn, as "switchin" abilities all activate, THEN reversion happens (from what we have seen)

Yes, this is how it's implemented. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-312577161 I also tested Imposter.

 

[bp scrub]

unaware setup mons seem decentish, especially with a trapping move since you can lure in imposter chansey and kill it
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-319298899 (starting from 21)
It's meant to clear out chansey for contrary sweep but I guess it can sweep itself too.

Garchomp-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 136 HP / 240 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Thousand Waves
- Diamond Storm
- Recover

132 speed lets it outspeed deoxys speed after +2, 136 hp lets it avoid the 2hko from opposing imposters after lefties, and the rest goes into attack for more damage. Didn't bother putting on Kings Shield for -atespeed because its Unaware would ignore their stat drops anyways.